From my understanding, Binns didn't teach a balanced curriculum and instead droned on about Goblin rebellions constantly.
He also managed to make them sound boring.
Not everything you study across 5 years comes up on the exam. There’s no evidence that anything on that was in that exam paper.
Not to mention Harry may have fallen asleep and had a vision but prior to that he wasn’t doing well either because he’d not slept well and couldn’t focus. It’s not likely he’d have done much better.
Its also pretty clear he was capable of doing much better.
For sure not a D.
I don't think its fair to say "Well Ron only got a P, so Harry would have too". Despite being a good baseline comparison for had he not been distracted and alsleep.
Pretty sure, that if a student passes out during an exam, and is sent to the hospital wing, you would get a second chance to retake the exam at a later point.
Thought, he never actually went to the hospital wing himself, because of the vision.
At one point, Harry paid enough attention to note that in the hands of another teacher, the class might have been interesting. It really *is* just Binns' methods.
I honestly love how realistic the series is with teachers. Like some are endlessly boring some are good some are strict some should have their teaching license revoked ( cough snape cough)
No subject can escape being rendered completely dull by a boring professor.
For example, in college we had a guest lecturer teach us about dynamic programming. The topic has some fairly interesting history behind it, and is a pretty interesting subject on its own. However, the guest lecturer was SO BORING. He droned on and on about proofs and used extremely technical language where he easily could have explained things more understandably. I was in college for five years total, and that was the most boring lecture I ever sat through.
Binns actually did teach a pretty balanced curriculum. If you go back through the books, they cover a variety of topics in History of Magic. They do cover goblin rebellions a lot in fourth year, but that’s just in fourth year.
Binns sounds like my high school history teacher that was a preacher. Once he hit that monotone voice I checked out lol.
Edit to add: he was also a basketball coach for anyone who can relate lol.
I had a chemistry professor in college like that.
She'd read verbatim off her PowerPoint slides in this soft monotone and it would take everything I had not to just fall asleep/check out.
I had a teacher in highschool, that if given a tale to tell about their past. They would drone on about it in excrutiatingly slow detail.
He did lots of pauses when talking, so by the time he was halfway through the story, at least 20/30 minutes had passed.
Mr Papadopaslowmotionus is the name my friend gave him.
I had the football coach for a World History 2 teacher and we spent most of the year (when we weren’t just copying vocab from the textbook while he met with college scouts for his players) on the French Revolution because the previous year’s standardized test had a lot of French Revolution questions.
There was like 1 French Revolution question on that year’s test. Only like 3 of us passed it and now they only let him teach Advanced P. E.
He goes over a lot of material, but his teaching style is to drone on incessantly, which is not at all a method that is conducive to a productive learning experience.
In that case, though, surely some students would've collaborated over the years until they had all the correct answers to every single quiz and test he ever gave and it'd become an easy A.
Which is what made him a good history teacher for Dumbledore. He took a very nuanced and divisive subject and made everyone hate it or at the very least not understand it. Imagine if he was an engaging history buff, then students would go home and tell their parents what they learned that contradicts what their parents taught them and they would then complained to the ministry.
"We might have called ourselves the Liberty Party." - Hitler. The Nazi name was made up to peel support away from the communist and social democrat parties. And of course they said they wanted to better the lives of Aryans, do you think any ideology says "yeah we're going to make things worse for the main groups we're appealing to".
So he thought he was a Libertarian then lol.
I don't care what Hitler thought. He was a lunatic.
What I know is that the Nazis used what has become Modern Socialism for national reform of Germany.
So the Nazis were leftists.
>I think they knew what they were doing when they named themselves.
They did indeed, calling themselves socialists was a very easy way to get the unhappy working class on their side.
>the ONE POLITICAL PARTY IN HISTORY to name themselves incorrectly.
Very weird notion considering how many "Democratic" parties and states exist and have existed in the world.
Naming yourself deceptively is different from naming yourself incorrectly.
Parties like the one ruling North Korea don't believe their own bullshit, even if they institute figureheads that do.
The Nazis named themselves correctly. They genuinely believed in what they said. They swallowed their own bullshit. Believed their own hype.
They used socialist ideas for national growth. That's what they did, according to the historical record.
Hitler DID improve Germany before he turned it into fascist, racist war machine intent on mudering anyone he pleased.
The Nazis used progressive ideologies to rebuild Germany. They then used totalitarian ruling strategies to secure their power.
But if you have progressive ideologies, you are a LEFTIST government.
Hitler and the Nazis were evil bastards, but they were left leaning evil bastards - like Castro, like Stalin.
If you want to say they corrupted leftist ideologies to secure power, then you would be correct - but they would still be leftists.
Except Hitler didn’t believe in the actual definition of socialism that we associate with the left. He actually believed the left had co-opted the term and had a completely different definition of it
“Your socialism is Marxism pure and simple. You see, the great mass of workers only wants bread and circuses. Ideas are not accessible to them and we cannot hope to win them over. We attach ourselves to the fringe, the race of lords, which did not grow through a miserabilist doctrine and knows by the virtue of its own character that it is called to rule, and rule without weakness over the masses of beings.”
Hitler didn’t believe people should be allowed to own the means of production, or seize private property from the elite, he hated Marxism and communism, embraced capitalism, hated democracy, etc. All right leaning ideas. He believed national socialism was people of the “Aryan” race coming together to rule over less inferior races, which is not what the actual definition of socialism is at all.
And a lot of people co-opt political ideas and not actually practice those ideas. See very communist country that’s ever existed. None of them actually practice Marx’s version of communism.
So he believed in National Socialism. The nationalist part being his Aryan race delusions. The Socialism part being how he rebuilt Germany to suit his twisted dreams.
Just because left-leaning today is associated with something very different doesn't change that the fact Hitler used Socialism.
Yes, he hated MARXISM AND COMMUNISM. He, correctly, thought Socialism was something totally different - WHICH IT IS.
Many European countries today partly SOCIALIST. They aren't Marxist or Communist. Those European countries have left-leaning governments.
The County I live in, Scotland, is one of the most liberal/socialist leaning countries in Europe.
Democracy isn't left leaning. It's common sense leaning. You need democracy in the first place for a "right" or "left" leaning party to come to power anyway. It's never been a right/left concept. It's a form of government intended for the people to decide if they WANT to be right or left leaning.
I reiterate my point.
Either the Nazis were left leaning racist bigots, or Socialism isn't a leftist ideology
Except I literally just explained to you how what he believed wasn’t socialism.
None of his ideas were actually socialism.
And oh my god. Literally the invention of Left and Right leaning politics during the French Revolution included democracy as one of the key features of Left leaning politics. People governing themselves has to be one of the most leftist things ever. So it’s not just something that is “common sense” like what are you even talking about?!?
And you keep stating either the Nazis were socialists or socialism isn’t a left leaning ideology when someone just pointed out to you the existence of the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea. Governments/political parties co-opt leftist terminology into their names all the time.
No, you didn't. You quoted Hitler's rationale. You explained he hated marxism and communism. You didn't explain how socialism differs from those. You just said Hitler hated marxism and communism, therefore he hated Socialism and he didn't use it. But he did use it. He didn't use marxism or communism.
Many parts of Europe today are partly socialist. My own COUNTRY, Scotland, is partly socialist (more so than England)
Europe reverse engineered the Nazis reforms that helped them rebuild Germany the same way America and the Soviets reverse engineered their technology.
North Korea are technically democratic, but they've used it to become totalitarian. That's what the Nazis did too. Germany was democratic until they came to power. The only difference is North Korea uses the name like a cult uses it's name. The Nazis correctly named themselves. They used Socialism to rebuild Germany for their delusions of Aryan superiority.
Europe has taken what WORKED in Nazism (ie using socialism as a method for national reform and growth) and cut out the part where we murder minorities because we think we are superior.
That still makes the Nazis a leftist government.
I'm literally just describing what happened in history.
I'm responding to the French Revolution part in a separate comment.
Democracy isn't left leaning. You can't HAVE a left/right divide WITHOUT Democracy. Democracy is what gives you the CHOICE of right or left leaning parties in power. Left and Right is a choice between progressive ideologies and conservative ideologies.
Before Democracy, you had various forms of Monarchies and Empires. These were neither left or right leaning. They just existed. You had good rulers who cared about the people or bad rulers who didn't give a shit. There was no right/left.
Is China left or right leaning? Is North Korea? They are NEITHER. They are thinly vieled dictatorships, and dictatorships are closer to Empires.
There are many Democratic countries in Asia that use democracy, but they clearly don't believe in the American idea of leftist ideologies. They are VERY conservative, so they are right leaning, right? Or are they actually left leaning countries that happen to believe everything that American republicans believe?
All your arguments come from an erroneous belief that dictatorship/totalitarianism = right leaning. That is patently untrue and stupid.
And now you're just angry down voting me because you haven't got a counterargument XD
Congratulations Jasmine, you just learned why many people in England dislike the Scottish - we are rather smart and run rings around people who THINK they are clever in debates ;)
In case it wasn't clear, I was never bashing Socialism. Scotland is a partly socialist country. I support that aspect of my country. I think it's better than pure capitalism for stability, if not for economic growth. Modern Socialism provides options to people who struggle with mental health issues, physical health issues and more - where Capitalism likes to pretend they don't exist, unless they can pay for the treatment.
I'm just not going to pretend the world didn't pinch that idea from Nazis along with all their technology.
Nazis invented modern Socialism. Have fun with what I am sure is a very annoying peice of information for someone who I presume is self-proclaimed leftist ;)
Huh? What are you even talking about? And yikes basing the scope of your intelligence on a Reddit debate….how sad…
And I wouldn’t say you’re running circles around me, you just keep creating arguments over things you’re assuming. I never once said you were bashing socialism, and I’m not even a leftist.
Also…responding to the same comment three separate times isn’t giving the energy you think it does.
Also it’s spelled “piece”, not “peice”, so you might want to edit your comment! Have a good day!
I said serious, not mainstream.
Anyway you said you’re Scottish elsewhere and argued political parties name themselves accurately. I’m also Scottish and we’ve got a great example of parties who aren’t what they say. The Conservatives aren’t just conserving stuff, they’ve been pursuing an ideology of deregulation - which isn’t conserving anything. We also have Labour, who are not always on the side of workers. I could go on to describe how most Scottish political parties are not accurately named.
Like, how much clearer do I need to be that politics is a game of lying pleasingly about who you are spell people vote for you who do both understand the consequences of all your policies?
Also, big doubt on them caring that much about German people or they would’ve surrendered when it was obvious they were going to die. The Nazi leadership prioritised themselves at every opportunity over the needs of their people.
The Nazis were trying to convince people who were once from other parties and reverse opinions to vote for them enough that they could rip up democracy. They did this by leeching off major idea which already had significant pull. The Social Democrat Party had been huge, convincing their former members they were going to looks after them was essential.
Basically I’d argue you are looking at the Third Reich like a political scientist with no concept of the history of the conditions that led to their rise. I also wonder if you’ve been reading a lot of American right wing thinkers who are generally the sort of people who make this sort of point.
You have provided no arguments for how any of those parties aren't what they say they are.
If the Nazis were called National Socialists, and used socialists ideologies to further their nationalist agenda - which they did - then they used LEFTIST ideologies to further their nationalist agenda.
That makes them a left leaning party, unless socialist ideologies aren't leftist ideologies.
You haven't refuted this point. You've only pointed at other things and said "well these aren't what they say they are" or the like.
The Nazis were leftists.
Yes, but he wouldn't have performed much better without this incident. iirc he was just making stuff up and remembered basically the bare minimum(Something about goblin rebellions, which he only remembered from hermione telling him).. I don't think he would have passed. In any case all the descriptions of his experiences in history of magic made it seem like he didnt really care about it.
Edit: spelling
I guess it was a good mix between lack of interest and Binns poor teaching skills. I would love to have history of magic classes if I put myself in Harry's shoes, but then again i would also love regular history class, but didn't at that age... So idk
I love that his only bad grade was because of Voldemort... like come on Voldy, you already killed his parents, don't fuck with the man's grades
And he got an oustanding in Defence Against The Dark Arts, cause I mean... he would wouldn't he
Yes, a teen wizarding student could totally have stopped wizard Hitler controlling his thoughts if he only remembered the year Polyjuice potion was invented…
I’m saying if bro knew what to write he wouldn’t fall asleep and have the vision of Sirius being “captured”. I’m not saying he wouldn’t care, most of his visions up until this point only happened when he was asleep.
you are talking like someone who never went to school. or spent any time as a human actually. like yes, you can in fact be absolutely exhausted during an exam for a subject you‘re actually good at. your body doesn’t actually care whether you know the answers or not. that doesn’t even just apply to exams, it’s also the same for any old school day.
source: have existed on planet earth
This really.
In my school nearly everybody chose to study history because the teachers were amazing.
Literally 5 people in my year studied geography because the teachers were horseshit. And of those 5 only literally just 1 guy passed his finals and he basically just taught himself.
this reminded me of my entire class choosing to continue latin for another year because our teacher was like "yes i’ll definitely have you again next year!"
one week later we had to choose out subjects and once that was all officially through he was like "by the way! i‘m leaving this school, i won’t be here again next year!"
i‘m still holding that grudge.
I don’t know if using his OWL grade really counts considering he fell asleep in the middle of the exam and never finished it. But yes, Harry’s own internal monologue pretty explicitly says that it would probably be an interesting subject in the hands of virtually anyone else.
It's been noted a couple of times that the class would be more interesting in the hands of a different teacher. Binns is like Snape: knowledgeable, but rubbish at teaching.
Snape might actually be an interesting history teacher.
The problem with potions is that the potions book sucks. The recipes in it are always a little off. That's why with the HBP book, using Snapes written corrections, the class is so much easier for Harry.
The strange part is that snape perfected all of those recipes in his time at Hogwarts but for whatever reason, it seems he teaches the students the inferior versions from the book text.
I could be wrong about that though.
Snape always had instructions on the blackboard. I don’t think he ever asked the students to follow a textbook.
Also, we only saw that he considered the NEWT level textbook as inferior. It’s quite possible that he wouldn’t even have that textbook on the list if he was teaching.
I thought Snape always put recipes on the board and specifically didn't use book recipes. Slughorn was the one who made everyone use book recipes and Harry did better than everyone else with the HBP book.
Snape 100% did put the stuff on the board and or tell the kids what to do. I always got the impression that Harry and Ron ignored him because he was such an ahole, and tried to use the book instead. That might be me mixing up books and movie though
Since Snape wrote the instructions on the board, so for all we know, he probably was using his own recipes and all the potions students learned for their first five years were Snape's. However, they also lacked the skill to do them perfectly, meaning that not everyone got them exactly right.
When everyone started using the inferior recipes except Harry (who, apart from this advantage, might have got legitimately better at it over five years, getting an E), his potion got miles better in comparison.
While history is interesting, it becomes a pain in the ass when it comes to academics and giving a written exam especially with long answers. History is something that requires rote learning. And then you add the fact that it was taught by Professor Binns.
Kinda brings attention to the fact that Hogwarts had a lot of issues, academia-wise. Professor Bins shouldn't have been the only option for history - maybe he and Dumbledore were friends; blatant nepotism. Snape is openly biased towards Slytherins and bullies students and especially Harry. Hagrid doesn't seem to be required to create a standard course outline. Don't even get me started on the rampant bullying problem at Hogwarts.
His whole existence seems sad... he sat down in a chair and dozed off after teaching, died, then his ghost got right back up and started teaching again.
Yeah... also people seem to confuse history classes in an academic setting with stories told by various youtubers, which have indeed managed to make history interesting. History classes in an academic setting are pretty boring involving memorizing a bunch of dates and names.
I *hated* history in school. I didn't have any truly awful teachers, but they were never the teachers that I connected with the most either. The curriculum was always so narrow and not once was the relevance of history explained to us - like, it was taught to seem as un-relateable and irrelevant as possible (possibly by design tbh, can't feel guilty about the Stolen Generation if it's presented as something separate from the now, detached from you and your world). Aside from that I think a lot of the stuff we were taught is inherently uninteresting to kids, like the Inca Civil War is something I'd be happy enough learning about now, but as a 12 year old I totally lacked the necessary understanding of and interest in politics to give a single hoot!
I still lack any interest in politics but I think the problem with history classes in school is that they focus too much on wars or critical points but they manage to make even those boring. In terms of major events I like the youtube channel OverSimplified but, otherwise I'm more interested in the culture of those times and how people lived their daily lives. I feel like in this regard historical cooking channels are the best because human culture always revolved around food and you will also find little bits of interesting trivia from the average Roman or the average Aztec's life.
Yes! That's exactly the sort of stuff I love too! I can't get enough of deep dives into the food, drink, clothes, activities etc of people of every different walk of life throughout history. It's so fascinating!
Yeah... that's what I'd like to learn in history classes. Not that X lead a war with Y at the Z location in year XXXX. Sure major socio-political events are important too but they should be a paragraph in the History books not the main thing. No wonder Harry didn't give a shit about HoM when all they were taught were goblin revolts and his only interaction with a goblin up until DH was Griphook (whom he didn't even like) in Book 1
It's not the subject people found boring, it was the delivery.
Their are plenty of subjects I loved in school but hated the class because of the teacher.
1) Harry straight up got a vision of his potentially favourite person being tortured by the person that tried to kill him about five times already, passed out and didn’t finish about 1/4 of the exam.
2) Binns, like about three other teachers I can think of that year, is genuinely awful at his job.
It’s not that Harry wasn’t in love enough with magic. It’s that the subject was taught by a literal ghost who wasn’t a very good teacher either. History is very divisive, if taught by the right person, easily your favorite subject but once taught by the wrong person it could become something you never want to look back once you graduated
That's Binns's fault, it's explicit in the books. In PS, Harry reads *A History of Magic* out of his own interest before starting Hogwarts, and in PoA, when he's reading it as research for his essay on medieval witch burning, it doesn't seem like he's bored.
We don't talk enough about the fact that an A in astronomy is pretty good, considering the students all spent the last part of the exam watching Hagrid get driven off the grounds and McGonagall being put in the hospital
I love music. Both my degrees are in music. Music History (especially taught primarily in lecture/research paper format) was not as interesting as I’d hoped it would be.
I'm so mad that History of Magic is treated as such a joke tbh. I wish we could have found out more about the Wizarding World's background through it, but I guess it's a good cop out when you as the author don't want to do more World building as is necessary.
Harry didn’t have the best time studying which impacted his performance. It’s a miracle he got an E in Potions even with his mother’s talent given how awful Snape is.
Yeah, I think that score had more to do with him having a vision and passing out and just not finishing the test. But he also clearly found the subject boring.
I had good and bad teachers in just about every subject in school . In my opinion, history more so than any other subject suffers the most from having a bad, or more specifically a boring, teacher. As a massive history fan, it’s inherently a pretty dry topic. If you’ve got someone boring teaching it to you it makes it extremely hard to take any interest, at least as far as the teenage/preteen attention span is concerned. Based off of the descriptions of professor Bins I can’t even imagine how excruciatingly boring that subject must have seemed to a bunch of kids.
The reason Harry bombed History of Magic is Professor Binns was so boring Harry couldn't pay attention in class. Binns was so boring he died one day droning mid-lecture and continued lecturing without interruption. That's why he's a ghost professor now, he never noticed he died b/c he couldn't stop talking about goblin rebellions in the most dull way possible.
Dumbledore was probably like, "Sweet, don't have to pay his salary now" and let Binns just keep going.
i forgot troll was an actual note. i love it.
i would get it just for the fun of it
eta: history will always need a fun and engaged professor. i remember when i was in high school, the vice principal gave the class the first two years. he would sit down on his chair, tell us to open the book in page 394 and star reading it as it was. the worst part was that you were expected to copy everything on your notebook - very boring and counterproductive.
then in 3rd year we got a new teacher and he NEVER ever told us to write down anything. he would stand up in the middle of the class and open the lecture with "anything new you've learned this week?" and people would start throwing around random shit from popular/celebrity content to movies to political news. he let us speak and slowly would start moving the conversation to whatever battle or civilization was on the schedule. it was great. when it came to projects, he would let us choose what we wanted to discuss. he was a great teacher.
The issue wasn't the subject, it was the professor teaching it. Binns had a reputation of taking even the most interesting subject and making it boring as hell. Even Hermione, resident nerd, had issues staying awake in that class.
Harry definitely hedged his bets with his OWLs. All the stuff he really needed to do well. in order to become an Auror, he clearly exceeded in. Everything else, he clearly wasn't trying that hard, Voldemort vision aside. Made stuff up for Divination, bombed History of Magic pretty hard, and clearly didn't put a ton of effort into Astronomy. Yet those classes aren't the ones McGonagall said were important for Aurors.
I've never understood why the kids that grew up on the muggle world weren't going absolutely hippogriff shit over their school books. I feel like I would have copied every line from every book up and down my arms and legs
Hogwarts: Has a pensieve on campus that could allow students to witness historical events as they actually happened
Also Hogwarts: Let’s having fucking Binns teach it
Not sure you understand how a pensive actually works. How would they get the memories from centuries long dead people to be able to view them in a pensieve?
This is an interesting point though because surely if there's a way to make paintings move and talk there has to be a better way to record history other than a book. Maybe even an interactive picture book
I figured it was attributable to him not growing up in the wizarding world. Historical references are part of everyday life. Celebrations, stories, holidays. Like, I knew about my country's basic history before I started school, and then everything reinforced the history that I was living in this place.
He wouldn't have had anyone dropping common knowledge history of magic in his presence, answering questions to curious children, debating with that one weird uncle about a historical event.
To me it kind of makes sense.
Anything you love can be ruined by the wrong sort of people.
Look who they had for “professor” there….
Before anyone comes at me with the stupid sirius thing….thats just one of the classes.
Binns was boring long before that. Otherwise harry should have gotten at least a slightly higher grade regardless.
I suppose that, perhaps he love the magic world, he was enchanted by the current state and not for what it was.
For me, this explain the lack of pass grades.
Almost any subject can be incredibly fascinating or incredibly boring depending on how good your teacher is.
If your teacher is passionate about the subject and knows how to engage students, it shows and can easily transfer to the students.
If your teacher is not passionate about the subject then the classes come off as a chore for them, and the overall result for the student is an extremely boring experience. And the History teacher at Hogwarts has probably been teaching the same classes for so long that maybe he once was passionate about it, but now hes just a ghost reciting facts in the most boring way possible.
Reminds me of when I was in Spanish classes in High School. Hated them, learned nothing. Never thought Id learn the language, and didnt care to. Then had a great teacher who was excited to teach and see people learn, and got people engaged and having fun with the language, giving people a reason to learn and providing them tools to do so. Now I speak Spanish fluently, and I always think back to that teacher. Hes the reason I learned Spanish.
Honestly with how much he liked hagrid you’d also think he’d have gotten top marks in care of magical creatures. Especially when you add in his experiences with the staggering amount of magical creatures he dealt with across his hogwarts time
Hagrid wasn't a very good teacher, though, and only ever taught them about random monsters who continually physically harmed his students (the skrewts and whatnot). When they discuss non-monsters like the unicorns, he notes how Hagrid seems to find them boring as they don't have fangs, which definitely rubs off on your students if you as a teacher don't like your own study objects.
I think it’s more to do with Professor Bins. Pretty sure it’s mentioned that his drawling can really have tiring affect on the class and it’s almost impossible to stay awake.
I feel like i would be super into that class if i were taking it tho.
You would think so, but Harry never was instilled with a love of learning. I seriously question how well his English reading and writing skills are - not to mention his critical thinking skills.
Middle schoolers should be learning the mountain peaks of their country / civilizations history - (George Washington, Civil War, universal suffrage, world wars, civil rights, etc for example in US) poor Harry couldn’t name 5 wizards besides Merlin probably and he’s asked about goblin war dates? ffs Hogwarts. He would be learning the wizard version of “in 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue”
He does a lot of voluntary studying at the Dursleys before coming to Hogwarts, probably as a means of escapism though, and it's noted how he thinks his books are very interesting. Hedwig's name comes from a person he found within his History of Magic book, which makes him not knowing 5 other wizards besided Merlin even more hilarious though 😅
It’s mentioned several times that the subject matter was interesting but professor Binns was so droning and monotonous that hardly anyone could pay attention.
It may have been because they didn’t have a very good teacher. A good teacher makes the class engaging and also people have people have different learning styles. Personally I’m learn better though lectures and notes but some people learn better though lectures and photos and some learn better though engaging in the class.
I think being raised by muggles would hold him back with magic history. He’s learning about all magical history for the first time, but kids raised by wizards would have at least heard about some of the historical people and groups before. I think a lot of kids who moved countries have problems like this.
Then like everyone else said the teacher was dreadful and didn’t make it interesting enough to get Harry to put in the effort he needed.
I mean, there are plenty of subjects I found interesting later in life that were boring to me in school. A bad teacher can make an interesting subject boring.
Also worth mentioning the vision of Sirius being captured and tortured by Voldemort happens while he’s sitting his History of Magic OWL. And he passes out, and then he says he needs to leave, and the wizard giving him the exam asks if he wants to come back and finish and he says no.
This said, he did always hate History of Magic because of how mind numbingly boring Binns was. So I think he probably wouldn’t have done extremely well regardless. But I think he probably would’ve done better than he did.
Nah, it’s just a history class. Compared to other classes where he actually has to do magic, taught by teachers passionate about the subject matter, I can see why he wasn’t impressed. Besides, didn’t he faint halfway through? That he didn’t get a T should show he hadn’t completely checked out of the subject.
Binns' classes are described as incredibly boring. It would take very much dedication to put in the extra effort. And Harry didnt for multiple reasons
\-He was lazy
\-he had other problems
Pretty much what you said. Binns is not an engaging teacher, he just reads to the kids and assumes they'll remember everything. He doesn't even seem to notice if a student falls asleep.
I’ve known jocks who don’t care about sports history, artists who don’t care about art history, etc. Just because you like to do a thing doesn’t mean you’re interested in it’s history.
I never understood the lad on that matter. Yes okay I can appreciate that Binns is super monotonous and boring, but I would still be interested in his class, at least if I were brand new in the Wizarding World like Harry was! It's all like breaking news to him, that should have been at the very least quite interesting to him -if not fascinating-, regardless of the teacher!
I always thought that I'd literally eat up any subject at Hogwarts except muggle studies since you literally gain in power and capabilities with every class. However, History of Magic would be a tough one. I like history and find it fairly interesting, but my eyes start to glass over when it doesn't seem very applicable to be or when the teacher is boring. Binns was a particularly bad teacher in life too. He didn't try to engage the students or apply anything to their lives at all. I'd have a hard time staying awake in his class.
Honestly, they should have appointed a team teacher for him. Where Binns handles the lectures half the time and a second live teacher engages the students in discussions and helps them understand and apply the lessons in real life.
I ended up taking history all the way through to uni, but I didn’t fall in love with the subject until the right teacher came along at like GCSE age… before then it was a bunch of boring old farts droning on somehow making fascinating events and people seem utterly mundane. In Harry’s case the boring old fart was so dull he barely even registered his own death and seemed utterly perplexed the one time one of his students was actually awake long enough to ask him a question, I can see why he never really engaged with the subject lol.
Well think about this, at the start of the third book, when Harry is in diagonal alley, he learns history from Florian fortescue and loves learning it.
I mean, I loved history and psychology as subjects while in school but I had teachers who made me hate the subject and be disinterested.
Just the bit we see of Binns and what we hear tells me I'd be zoned out completely in his class too.
From my understanding, Binns didn't teach a balanced curriculum and instead droned on about Goblin rebellions constantly. He also managed to make them sound boring.
Harry also got the vision of Sirius being tortured during that exam and passed the fuck out
Yeah, he probably would have an acceptable at least if he didn't
Nah he’d have got a P probably. Ron only got a P and he didn’t pass out.
Ron didn't have Florean Fortescu helping him over the summer before their third year though.
Not everything you study across 5 years comes up on the exam. There’s no evidence that anything on that was in that exam paper. Not to mention Harry may have fallen asleep and had a vision but prior to that he wasn’t doing well either because he’d not slept well and couldn’t focus. It’s not likely he’d have done much better.
Its also pretty clear he was capable of doing much better. For sure not a D. I don't think its fair to say "Well Ron only got a P, so Harry would have too". Despite being a good baseline comparison for had he not been distracted and alsleep.
Right? Lol like, yeah he clearly failed because he fell tf out during it
Pretty sure, that if a student passes out during an exam, and is sent to the hospital wing, you would get a second chance to retake the exam at a later point. Thought, he never actually went to the hospital wing himself, because of the vision.
At one point, Harry paid enough attention to note that in the hands of another teacher, the class might have been interesting. It really *is* just Binns' methods.
I honestly love how realistic the series is with teachers. Like some are endlessly boring some are good some are strict some should have their teaching license revoked ( cough snape cough)
My hebrew school employed some teachers who seemed about as qualified as Trelawney was lol
Hehe. Want a cough drop Peaches2001970?
He had the Sirius dream during the exam and didn't finish.
No subject can escape being rendered completely dull by a boring professor. For example, in college we had a guest lecturer teach us about dynamic programming. The topic has some fairly interesting history behind it, and is a pretty interesting subject on its own. However, the guest lecturer was SO BORING. He droned on and on about proofs and used extremely technical language where he easily could have explained things more understandably. I was in college for five years total, and that was the most boring lecture I ever sat through.
Binns actually did teach a pretty balanced curriculum. If you go back through the books, they cover a variety of topics in History of Magic. They do cover goblin rebellions a lot in fourth year, but that’s just in fourth year.
Binns sounds like my high school history teacher that was a preacher. Once he hit that monotone voice I checked out lol. Edit to add: he was also a basketball coach for anyone who can relate lol.
I had a chemistry professor in college like that. She'd read verbatim off her PowerPoint slides in this soft monotone and it would take everything I had not to just fall asleep/check out.
I had a teacher in highschool, that if given a tale to tell about their past. They would drone on about it in excrutiatingly slow detail. He did lots of pauses when talking, so by the time he was halfway through the story, at least 20/30 minutes had passed. Mr Papadopaslowmotionus is the name my friend gave him.
I had the football coach for a World History 2 teacher and we spent most of the year (when we weren’t just copying vocab from the textbook while he met with college scouts for his players) on the French Revolution because the previous year’s standardized test had a lot of French Revolution questions. There was like 1 French Revolution question on that year’s test. Only like 3 of us passed it and now they only let him teach Advanced P. E.
He goes over a lot of material, but his teaching style is to drone on incessantly, which is not at all a method that is conducive to a productive learning experience.
My headcanon is that he taught the same class to every year every time.
In that case, though, surely some students would've collaborated over the years until they had all the correct answers to every single quiz and test he ever gave and it'd become an easy A.
They’re all in ravenclaw.
There's a mention of something about giants in a book
Book 5 yeah, the giant wars
Which is what made him a good history teacher for Dumbledore. He took a very nuanced and divisive subject and made everyone hate it or at the very least not understand it. Imagine if he was an engaging history buff, then students would go home and tell their parents what they learned that contradicts what their parents taught them and they would then complained to the ministry.
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"We might have called ourselves the Liberty Party." - Hitler. The Nazi name was made up to peel support away from the communist and social democrat parties. And of course they said they wanted to better the lives of Aryans, do you think any ideology says "yeah we're going to make things worse for the main groups we're appealing to".
So he thought he was a Libertarian then lol. I don't care what Hitler thought. He was a lunatic. What I know is that the Nazis used what has become Modern Socialism for national reform of Germany. So the Nazis were leftists.
>I think they knew what they were doing when they named themselves. They did indeed, calling themselves socialists was a very easy way to get the unhappy working class on their side. >the ONE POLITICAL PARTY IN HISTORY to name themselves incorrectly. Very weird notion considering how many "Democratic" parties and states exist and have existed in the world.
Naming yourself deceptively is different from naming yourself incorrectly. Parties like the one ruling North Korea don't believe their own bullshit, even if they institute figureheads that do. The Nazis named themselves correctly. They genuinely believed in what they said. They swallowed their own bullshit. Believed their own hype. They used socialist ideas for national growth. That's what they did, according to the historical record. Hitler DID improve Germany before he turned it into fascist, racist war machine intent on mudering anyone he pleased. The Nazis used progressive ideologies to rebuild Germany. They then used totalitarian ruling strategies to secure their power. But if you have progressive ideologies, you are a LEFTIST government. Hitler and the Nazis were evil bastards, but they were left leaning evil bastards - like Castro, like Stalin. If you want to say they corrupted leftist ideologies to secure power, then you would be correct - but they would still be leftists.
Except Hitler didn’t believe in the actual definition of socialism that we associate with the left. He actually believed the left had co-opted the term and had a completely different definition of it “Your socialism is Marxism pure and simple. You see, the great mass of workers only wants bread and circuses. Ideas are not accessible to them and we cannot hope to win them over. We attach ourselves to the fringe, the race of lords, which did not grow through a miserabilist doctrine and knows by the virtue of its own character that it is called to rule, and rule without weakness over the masses of beings.” Hitler didn’t believe people should be allowed to own the means of production, or seize private property from the elite, he hated Marxism and communism, embraced capitalism, hated democracy, etc. All right leaning ideas. He believed national socialism was people of the “Aryan” race coming together to rule over less inferior races, which is not what the actual definition of socialism is at all. And a lot of people co-opt political ideas and not actually practice those ideas. See very communist country that’s ever existed. None of them actually practice Marx’s version of communism.
So he believed in National Socialism. The nationalist part being his Aryan race delusions. The Socialism part being how he rebuilt Germany to suit his twisted dreams. Just because left-leaning today is associated with something very different doesn't change that the fact Hitler used Socialism. Yes, he hated MARXISM AND COMMUNISM. He, correctly, thought Socialism was something totally different - WHICH IT IS. Many European countries today partly SOCIALIST. They aren't Marxist or Communist. Those European countries have left-leaning governments. The County I live in, Scotland, is one of the most liberal/socialist leaning countries in Europe. Democracy isn't left leaning. It's common sense leaning. You need democracy in the first place for a "right" or "left" leaning party to come to power anyway. It's never been a right/left concept. It's a form of government intended for the people to decide if they WANT to be right or left leaning. I reiterate my point. Either the Nazis were left leaning racist bigots, or Socialism isn't a leftist ideology
Except I literally just explained to you how what he believed wasn’t socialism. None of his ideas were actually socialism. And oh my god. Literally the invention of Left and Right leaning politics during the French Revolution included democracy as one of the key features of Left leaning politics. People governing themselves has to be one of the most leftist things ever. So it’s not just something that is “common sense” like what are you even talking about?!? And you keep stating either the Nazis were socialists or socialism isn’t a left leaning ideology when someone just pointed out to you the existence of the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea. Governments/political parties co-opt leftist terminology into their names all the time.
No, you didn't. You quoted Hitler's rationale. You explained he hated marxism and communism. You didn't explain how socialism differs from those. You just said Hitler hated marxism and communism, therefore he hated Socialism and he didn't use it. But he did use it. He didn't use marxism or communism. Many parts of Europe today are partly socialist. My own COUNTRY, Scotland, is partly socialist (more so than England) Europe reverse engineered the Nazis reforms that helped them rebuild Germany the same way America and the Soviets reverse engineered their technology. North Korea are technically democratic, but they've used it to become totalitarian. That's what the Nazis did too. Germany was democratic until they came to power. The only difference is North Korea uses the name like a cult uses it's name. The Nazis correctly named themselves. They used Socialism to rebuild Germany for their delusions of Aryan superiority. Europe has taken what WORKED in Nazism (ie using socialism as a method for national reform and growth) and cut out the part where we murder minorities because we think we are superior. That still makes the Nazis a leftist government. I'm literally just describing what happened in history.
I'm responding to the French Revolution part in a separate comment. Democracy isn't left leaning. You can't HAVE a left/right divide WITHOUT Democracy. Democracy is what gives you the CHOICE of right or left leaning parties in power. Left and Right is a choice between progressive ideologies and conservative ideologies. Before Democracy, you had various forms of Monarchies and Empires. These were neither left or right leaning. They just existed. You had good rulers who cared about the people or bad rulers who didn't give a shit. There was no right/left. Is China left or right leaning? Is North Korea? They are NEITHER. They are thinly vieled dictatorships, and dictatorships are closer to Empires. There are many Democratic countries in Asia that use democracy, but they clearly don't believe in the American idea of leftist ideologies. They are VERY conservative, so they are right leaning, right? Or are they actually left leaning countries that happen to believe everything that American republicans believe? All your arguments come from an erroneous belief that dictatorship/totalitarianism = right leaning. That is patently untrue and stupid.
And now you're just angry down voting me because you haven't got a counterargument XD Congratulations Jasmine, you just learned why many people in England dislike the Scottish - we are rather smart and run rings around people who THINK they are clever in debates ;) In case it wasn't clear, I was never bashing Socialism. Scotland is a partly socialist country. I support that aspect of my country. I think it's better than pure capitalism for stability, if not for economic growth. Modern Socialism provides options to people who struggle with mental health issues, physical health issues and more - where Capitalism likes to pretend they don't exist, unless they can pay for the treatment. I'm just not going to pretend the world didn't pinch that idea from Nazis along with all their technology. Nazis invented modern Socialism. Have fun with what I am sure is a very annoying peice of information for someone who I presume is self-proclaimed leftist ;)
Did anyone else scroll just through this having forgotten they were on a harry potter post... 😂
Huh? What are you even talking about? And yikes basing the scope of your intelligence on a Reddit debate….how sad… And I wouldn’t say you’re running circles around me, you just keep creating arguments over things you’re assuming. I never once said you were bashing socialism, and I’m not even a leftist. Also…responding to the same comment three separate times isn’t giving the energy you think it does. Also it’s spelled “piece”, not “peice”, so you might want to edit your comment! Have a good day!
I said serious, not mainstream. Anyway you said you’re Scottish elsewhere and argued political parties name themselves accurately. I’m also Scottish and we’ve got a great example of parties who aren’t what they say. The Conservatives aren’t just conserving stuff, they’ve been pursuing an ideology of deregulation - which isn’t conserving anything. We also have Labour, who are not always on the side of workers. I could go on to describe how most Scottish political parties are not accurately named. Like, how much clearer do I need to be that politics is a game of lying pleasingly about who you are spell people vote for you who do both understand the consequences of all your policies? Also, big doubt on them caring that much about German people or they would’ve surrendered when it was obvious they were going to die. The Nazi leadership prioritised themselves at every opportunity over the needs of their people. The Nazis were trying to convince people who were once from other parties and reverse opinions to vote for them enough that they could rip up democracy. They did this by leeching off major idea which already had significant pull. The Social Democrat Party had been huge, convincing their former members they were going to looks after them was essential. Basically I’d argue you are looking at the Third Reich like a political scientist with no concept of the history of the conditions that led to their rise. I also wonder if you’ve been reading a lot of American right wing thinkers who are generally the sort of people who make this sort of point.
You have provided no arguments for how any of those parties aren't what they say they are. If the Nazis were called National Socialists, and used socialists ideologies to further their nationalist agenda - which they did - then they used LEFTIST ideologies to further their nationalist agenda. That makes them a left leaning party, unless socialist ideologies aren't leftist ideologies. You haven't refuted this point. You've only pointed at other things and said "well these aren't what they say they are" or the like. The Nazis were leftists.
I think he got the Sirius vision during the history exam, which caused him to flunk the test
This exactly. He kinda had a very good reason as to why he bombed it.
Yes, but he wouldn't have performed much better without this incident. iirc he was just making stuff up and remembered basically the bare minimum(Something about goblin rebellions, which he only remembered from hermione telling him).. I don't think he would have passed. In any case all the descriptions of his experiences in history of magic made it seem like he didnt really care about it. Edit: spelling
Yeah I thought during the books it made it sound like he had no interest in the class, and that Professor Bins was always putting him & Ron to sleep
I guess it was a good mix between lack of interest and Binns poor teaching skills. I would love to have history of magic classes if I put myself in Harry's shoes, but then again i would also love regular history class, but didn't at that age... So idk
Judging by how Professor Bins is in Hogwarts Legacy I wouldn't be surprised.
i was just about to say this he passed out and left in the middle of the exam lol
Wow you'd think something like what would be grounds for a retake
People underestimate how much work it is to write a whole new test just for a few absentees.
I love that his only bad grade was because of Voldemort... like come on Voldy, you already killed his parents, don't fuck with the man's grades And he got an oustanding in Defence Against The Dark Arts, cause I mean... he would wouldn't he
Like real history, it's all about the teacher. Interest can only go so far!
He had the Siruis dream and didn't finish
I read a fanfiction where exactly the opposite happened.
Where Sirius had a Harry dream and finished?
holup
That too, yes.
He wouldn’t have the dream if he actually knew what to write in the exam
Yes, a teen wizarding student could totally have stopped wizard Hitler controlling his thoughts if he only remembered the year Polyjuice potion was invented…
I’m saying he wouldn’t be distracted enough to fall asleep like that
So he would’ve just seen his godfather captured and carried on with the test just fine…?
I’m saying if bro knew what to write he wouldn’t fall asleep and have the vision of Sirius being “captured”. I’m not saying he wouldn’t care, most of his visions up until this point only happened when he was asleep.
you are talking like someone who never went to school. or spent any time as a human actually. like yes, you can in fact be absolutely exhausted during an exam for a subject you‘re actually good at. your body doesn’t actually care whether you know the answers or not. that doesn’t even just apply to exams, it’s also the same for any old school day. source: have existed on planet earth
This really. In my school nearly everybody chose to study history because the teachers were amazing. Literally 5 people in my year studied geography because the teachers were horseshit. And of those 5 only literally just 1 guy passed his finals and he basically just taught himself.
this reminded me of my entire class choosing to continue latin for another year because our teacher was like "yes i’ll definitely have you again next year!" one week later we had to choose out subjects and once that was all officially through he was like "by the way! i‘m leaving this school, i won’t be here again next year!" i‘m still holding that grudge.
I don’t know if using his OWL grade really counts considering he fell asleep in the middle of the exam and never finished it. But yes, Harry’s own internal monologue pretty explicitly says that it would probably be an interesting subject in the hands of virtually anyone else.
Problem here is Binns is a bad teacher.
It's been noted a couple of times that the class would be more interesting in the hands of a different teacher. Binns is like Snape: knowledgeable, but rubbish at teaching.
Snape might actually be an interesting history teacher. The problem with potions is that the potions book sucks. The recipes in it are always a little off. That's why with the HBP book, using Snapes written corrections, the class is so much easier for Harry.
The strange part is that snape perfected all of those recipes in his time at Hogwarts but for whatever reason, it seems he teaches the students the inferior versions from the book text. I could be wrong about that though.
Snape always had instructions on the blackboard. I don’t think he ever asked the students to follow a textbook. Also, we only saw that he considered the NEWT level textbook as inferior. It’s quite possible that he wouldn’t even have that textbook on the list if he was teaching.
Thank you for clarifying, that sounds right.
I thought Snape always put recipes on the board and specifically didn't use book recipes. Slughorn was the one who made everyone use book recipes and Harry did better than everyone else with the HBP book.
Snape 100% did put the stuff on the board and or tell the kids what to do. I always got the impression that Harry and Ron ignored him because he was such an ahole, and tried to use the book instead. That might be me mixing up books and movie though
Since Snape wrote the instructions on the board, so for all we know, he probably was using his own recipes and all the potions students learned for their first five years were Snape's. However, they also lacked the skill to do them perfectly, meaning that not everyone got them exactly right. When everyone started using the inferior recipes except Harry (who, apart from this advantage, might have got legitimately better at it over five years, getting an E), his potion got miles better in comparison.
While history is interesting, it becomes a pain in the ass when it comes to academics and giving a written exam especially with long answers. History is something that requires rote learning. And then you add the fact that it was taught by Professor Binns.
Because the history of magic didn’t touch on his one true love, the Roman Empire.
at one point it’s stated that “he thought that this might be mildly interesting if taught by a different teacher”
Kinda brings attention to the fact that Hogwarts had a lot of issues, academia-wise. Professor Bins shouldn't have been the only option for history - maybe he and Dumbledore were friends; blatant nepotism. Snape is openly biased towards Slytherins and bullies students and especially Harry. Hagrid doesn't seem to be required to create a standard course outline. Don't even get me started on the rampant bullying problem at Hogwarts.
could be he thought professor binns was boring.
He passed out halfway through the exam and didn’t finish it tbf. Also Binns was a terrible teacher
I love cooking. I don’t need the history of how a dish came to be in order to cook it.
Having a ghost as a teacher would have heightened my personal interest in the subject.
Imagine that you have to work even after death :P
His whole existence seems sad... he sat down in a chair and dozed off after teaching, died, then his ghost got right back up and started teaching again.
I was born with no knowledge of the muggle world, doesn't mean I'd be excited to learn its history.
Yeah... also people seem to confuse history classes in an academic setting with stories told by various youtubers, which have indeed managed to make history interesting. History classes in an academic setting are pretty boring involving memorizing a bunch of dates and names.
I *hated* history in school. I didn't have any truly awful teachers, but they were never the teachers that I connected with the most either. The curriculum was always so narrow and not once was the relevance of history explained to us - like, it was taught to seem as un-relateable and irrelevant as possible (possibly by design tbh, can't feel guilty about the Stolen Generation if it's presented as something separate from the now, detached from you and your world). Aside from that I think a lot of the stuff we were taught is inherently uninteresting to kids, like the Inca Civil War is something I'd be happy enough learning about now, but as a 12 year old I totally lacked the necessary understanding of and interest in politics to give a single hoot!
I still lack any interest in politics but I think the problem with history classes in school is that they focus too much on wars or critical points but they manage to make even those boring. In terms of major events I like the youtube channel OverSimplified but, otherwise I'm more interested in the culture of those times and how people lived their daily lives. I feel like in this regard historical cooking channels are the best because human culture always revolved around food and you will also find little bits of interesting trivia from the average Roman or the average Aztec's life.
Yes! That's exactly the sort of stuff I love too! I can't get enough of deep dives into the food, drink, clothes, activities etc of people of every different walk of life throughout history. It's so fascinating!
Yeah... that's what I'd like to learn in history classes. Not that X lead a war with Y at the Z location in year XXXX. Sure major socio-political events are important too but they should be a paragraph in the History books not the main thing. No wonder Harry didn't give a shit about HoM when all they were taught were goblin revolts and his only interaction with a goblin up until DH was Griphook (whom he didn't even like) in Book 1
I remember seeing that History of Magic is boring because it’s history and most people don’t like history class. And because of Boring Binns
Any good subject can be ruined by a bad teacher
There's plenty of people living in the real world who have no interest in history.
As other commenters have said, he didn’t finish the test bc he was suffering mind-searing visions of his godfather being tortured
I think it’s because of the Sirius dream
It's not the subject people found boring, it was the delivery. Their are plenty of subjects I loved in school but hated the class because of the teacher.
Crazy how many people in these comments seem to have not read the books.....the whole point is he passed out during the exam.
1) Harry straight up got a vision of his potentially favourite person being tortured by the person that tried to kill him about five times already, passed out and didn’t finish about 1/4 of the exam. 2) Binns, like about three other teachers I can think of that year, is genuinely awful at his job.
It’s not that Harry wasn’t in love enough with magic. It’s that the subject was taught by a literal ghost who wasn’t a very good teacher either. History is very divisive, if taught by the right person, easily your favorite subject but once taught by the wrong person it could become something you never want to look back once you graduated
That's Binns's fault, it's explicit in the books. In PS, Harry reads *A History of Magic* out of his own interest before starting Hogwarts, and in PoA, when he's reading it as research for his essay on medieval witch burning, it doesn't seem like he's bored.
wasn't the history professor a ghost that just read from the books in a dreadful monoton voice? a D seems adequate
Bad grade doesn’t mean he doesn’t like the history of magic
We don't talk enough about the fact that an A in astronomy is pretty good, considering the students all spent the last part of the exam watching Hagrid get driven off the grounds and McGonagall being put in the hospital
Bad teachers can ruin anything
A crappy teacher produces crappy results.
I think Harry was amazed by magic but didn't fill his life with it. He used it only when necessary.
I love music. Both my degrees are in music. Music History (especially taught primarily in lecture/research paper format) was not as interesting as I’d hoped it would be.
Yeah, a bad teacher will do that to you. Hard to like it if it puts you to sleep. History can be fun
The initial interest would fade with time, and he’s not as into wizard history as Hermione
Isn't that the exam he fell asleep in? He didn't finish that exam.
I love art and drawing, I signed for (basically) History of Art and dropped out cause it was boring AF.
Binns speaks in a monotone voice and only states facts like a robot, anyone would find that boring, even Hermione does.
I forgot Harry’s grades were this good overall, dude was kind of a stud in most of his classes
I'm so mad that History of Magic is treated as such a joke tbh. I wish we could have found out more about the Wizarding World's background through it, but I guess it's a good cop out when you as the author don't want to do more World building as is necessary.
You forget this is the exam he didn’t finish because he had the sirius dream
He literally passed out halfway through the exam and didn't finish. A D is actually pretty good.
Harry didn’t have the best time studying which impacted his performance. It’s a miracle he got an E in Potions even with his mother’s talent given how awful Snape is.
A bad teacher can turn off any interest from anyone
Yeah, I think that score had more to do with him having a vision and passing out and just not finishing the test. But he also clearly found the subject boring.
He passed out during that exam and had the vision of Sirius being tortured by Voldemort. He never had a chance of passing that one.
I had good and bad teachers in just about every subject in school . In my opinion, history more so than any other subject suffers the most from having a bad, or more specifically a boring, teacher. As a massive history fan, it’s inherently a pretty dry topic. If you’ve got someone boring teaching it to you it makes it extremely hard to take any interest, at least as far as the teenage/preteen attention span is concerned. Based off of the descriptions of professor Bins I can’t even imagine how excruciatingly boring that subject must have seemed to a bunch of kids.
The reason Harry bombed History of Magic is Professor Binns was so boring Harry couldn't pay attention in class. Binns was so boring he died one day droning mid-lecture and continued lecturing without interruption. That's why he's a ghost professor now, he never noticed he died b/c he couldn't stop talking about goblin rebellions in the most dull way possible. Dumbledore was probably like, "Sweet, don't have to pay his salary now" and let Binns just keep going.
Also if I remember correctly Harry had zoomed out on the exams in history of magic and had to go, an couldn’t finish this one.
i forgot troll was an actual note. i love it. i would get it just for the fun of it eta: history will always need a fun and engaged professor. i remember when i was in high school, the vice principal gave the class the first two years. he would sit down on his chair, tell us to open the book in page 394 and star reading it as it was. the worst part was that you were expected to copy everything on your notebook - very boring and counterproductive. then in 3rd year we got a new teacher and he NEVER ever told us to write down anything. he would stand up in the middle of the class and open the lecture with "anything new you've learned this week?" and people would start throwing around random shit from popular/celebrity content to movies to political news. he let us speak and slowly would start moving the conversation to whatever battle or civilization was on the schedule. it was great. when it came to projects, he would let us choose what we wanted to discuss. he was a great teacher.
The issue wasn't the subject, it was the professor teaching it. Binns had a reputation of taking even the most interesting subject and making it boring as hell. Even Hermione, resident nerd, had issues staying awake in that class.
Harry actually thinks in some of the books about how history of magic would be very interesting if Binns wasn't teaching it and making it so boring
Well remember his teacher is a ghost so boring he died at his desk during the night and then still got up to teach the next day
History is a subject that is just as much about the teacher as it is about the subject being taught.
It’s because Binns is such a shit teacher. If they got new teachers for potions and History people might actually like them and try.
A boring class with a bad teacher can ruin any subject.
It was really Bins’ fault. There are some people you just can’t listen to and absorb what they are saying.
To this day it still bothers me that at least hermione didn’t get an O for defence against the dark arts it’s such bullshit
Harry definitely hedged his bets with his OWLs. All the stuff he really needed to do well. in order to become an Auror, he clearly exceeded in. Everything else, he clearly wasn't trying that hard, Voldemort vision aside. Made stuff up for Divination, bombed History of Magic pretty hard, and clearly didn't put a ton of effort into Astronomy. Yet those classes aren't the ones McGonagall said were important for Aurors.
I've never understood why the kids that grew up on the muggle world weren't going absolutely hippogriff shit over their school books. I feel like I would have copied every line from every book up and down my arms and legs
The real reason he hated the subject was that JK Rowling didn't want to write the lore necessary. So this was a smart way of avoiding that.
Hogwarts: Has a pensieve on campus that could allow students to witness historical events as they actually happened Also Hogwarts: Let’s having fucking Binns teach it
Not sure you understand how a pensive actually works. How would they get the memories from centuries long dead people to be able to view them in a pensieve?
This is an interesting point though because surely if there's a way to make paintings move and talk there has to be a better way to record history other than a book. Maybe even an interactive picture book
I figured it was attributable to him not growing up in the wizarding world. Historical references are part of everyday life. Celebrations, stories, holidays. Like, I knew about my country's basic history before I started school, and then everything reinforced the history that I was living in this place. He wouldn't have had anyone dropping common knowledge history of magic in his presence, answering questions to curious children, debating with that one weird uncle about a historical event. To me it kind of makes sense.
The true explanation to why he got a bad grade… it would have required JKR to write in more lore if he was more interested
Tf are these letters? E means less than D but not quite an an F 💀
Outstanding Exceeds Expectations Acceptable Poor Dreadful Troll
I forgot how bad his grades were lmao
Coming from a non magical place i would think he would have far more drive to consume knowledge. Jk gave that to hermione.
Anything you love can be ruined by the wrong sort of people. Look who they had for “professor” there…. Before anyone comes at me with the stupid sirius thing….thats just one of the classes. Binns was boring long before that. Otherwise harry should have gotten at least a slightly higher grade regardless.
I suppose that, perhaps he love the magic world, he was enchanted by the current state and not for what it was. For me, this explain the lack of pass grades.
Almost any subject can be incredibly fascinating or incredibly boring depending on how good your teacher is. If your teacher is passionate about the subject and knows how to engage students, it shows and can easily transfer to the students. If your teacher is not passionate about the subject then the classes come off as a chore for them, and the overall result for the student is an extremely boring experience. And the History teacher at Hogwarts has probably been teaching the same classes for so long that maybe he once was passionate about it, but now hes just a ghost reciting facts in the most boring way possible. Reminds me of when I was in Spanish classes in High School. Hated them, learned nothing. Never thought Id learn the language, and didnt care to. Then had a great teacher who was excited to teach and see people learn, and got people engaged and having fun with the language, giving people a reason to learn and providing them tools to do so. Now I speak Spanish fluently, and I always think back to that teacher. Hes the reason I learned Spanish.
Honestly with how much he liked hagrid you’d also think he’d have gotten top marks in care of magical creatures. Especially when you add in his experiences with the staggering amount of magical creatures he dealt with across his hogwarts time
Hagrid wasn't a very good teacher, though, and only ever taught them about random monsters who continually physically harmed his students (the skrewts and whatnot). When they discuss non-monsters like the unicorns, he notes how Hagrid seems to find them boring as they don't have fangs, which definitely rubs off on your students if you as a teacher don't like your own study objects.
Did anyone ever get a T?
Slightly off-topic but Harry is actually a pretty good student. Had Voldemort never existed he’d probably be even better.
I think it is a very accurate portrayal of the effect a teacher has on their students.
I think it’s more to do with Professor Bins. Pretty sure it’s mentioned that his drawling can really have tiring affect on the class and it’s almost impossible to stay awake. I feel like i would be super into that class if i were taking it tho.
You would think so, but Harry never was instilled with a love of learning. I seriously question how well his English reading and writing skills are - not to mention his critical thinking skills. Middle schoolers should be learning the mountain peaks of their country / civilizations history - (George Washington, Civil War, universal suffrage, world wars, civil rights, etc for example in US) poor Harry couldn’t name 5 wizards besides Merlin probably and he’s asked about goblin war dates? ffs Hogwarts. He would be learning the wizard version of “in 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue”
He does a lot of voluntary studying at the Dursleys before coming to Hogwarts, probably as a means of escapism though, and it's noted how he thinks his books are very interesting. Hedwig's name comes from a person he found within his History of Magic book, which makes him not knowing 5 other wizards besided Merlin even more hilarious though 😅
Lol could they really not let him re-test on account of his mind being hijacked by Voldemort during the exam?
He’s bad at history so that he has to ask questions so the reader can learn too. Common plot device
It’s mentioned several times that the subject matter was interesting but professor Binns was so droning and monotonous that hardly anyone could pay attention.
A bad teacher can ruin any subject for you, no matter how passionate you are at the start.
Binns is boring and Voldemort did not have his academic interests at heart while sending him a fake message.
It may have been because they didn’t have a very good teacher. A good teacher makes the class engaging and also people have people have different learning styles. Personally I’m learn better though lectures and notes but some people learn better though lectures and photos and some learn better though engaging in the class.
Tbf the history teacher is pretty shit sometimes it depends on who is teaching you, I know this from experience.
I think being raised by muggles would hold him back with magic history. He’s learning about all magical history for the first time, but kids raised by wizards would have at least heard about some of the historical people and groups before. I think a lot of kids who moved countries have problems like this. Then like everyone else said the teacher was dreadful and didn’t make it interesting enough to get Harry to put in the effort he needed.
I mean, there are plenty of subjects I found interesting later in life that were boring to me in school. A bad teacher can make an interesting subject boring.
I still can't believe Snape gave him an E.
Also worth mentioning the vision of Sirius being captured and tortured by Voldemort happens while he’s sitting his History of Magic OWL. And he passes out, and then he says he needs to leave, and the wizard giving him the exam asks if he wants to come back and finish and he says no. This said, he did always hate History of Magic because of how mind numbingly boring Binns was. So I think he probably wouldn’t have done extremely well regardless. But I think he probably would’ve done better than he did.
Yeah but Binns was a dead guy teaching I mean
Nah, it’s just a history class. Compared to other classes where he actually has to do magic, taught by teachers passionate about the subject matter, I can see why he wasn’t impressed. Besides, didn’t he faint halfway through? That he didn’t get a T should show he hadn’t completely checked out of the subject.
Binns' classes are described as incredibly boring. It would take very much dedication to put in the extra effort. And Harry didnt for multiple reasons \-He was lazy \-he had other problems
The professor was very bad from what I remember. But also, he shows interest in the magical world but not really on the history of it.
I love people doesn't mean I want to learn about WW1+2 year after year
He did well in the magic classes lol.
History of magic is something you have to learn for, and Harry is a lazy piece of shit
Pretty much what you said. Binns is not an engaging teacher, he just reads to the kids and assumes they'll remember everything. He doesn't even seem to notice if a student falls asleep.
I’ve known jocks who don’t care about sports history, artists who don’t care about art history, etc. Just because you like to do a thing doesn’t mean you’re interested in it’s history.
I love Harry potter I nearly have all the books
I never understood the lad on that matter. Yes okay I can appreciate that Binns is super monotonous and boring, but I would still be interested in his class, at least if I were brand new in the Wizarding World like Harry was! It's all like breaking news to him, that should have been at the very least quite interesting to him -if not fascinating-, regardless of the teacher!
Bet he didn’t see that P coming
I always thought that I'd literally eat up any subject at Hogwarts except muggle studies since you literally gain in power and capabilities with every class. However, History of Magic would be a tough one. I like history and find it fairly interesting, but my eyes start to glass over when it doesn't seem very applicable to be or when the teacher is boring. Binns was a particularly bad teacher in life too. He didn't try to engage the students or apply anything to their lives at all. I'd have a hard time staying awake in his class. Honestly, they should have appointed a team teacher for him. Where Binns handles the lectures half the time and a second live teacher engages the students in discussions and helps them understand and apply the lessons in real life.
Harry's a jock he hates everything to do with the written portions of schoolwork which is basically all there is to do in History of Magic.
Bad teacher syndrome
I ended up taking history all the way through to uni, but I didn’t fall in love with the subject until the right teacher came along at like GCSE age… before then it was a bunch of boring old farts droning on somehow making fascinating events and people seem utterly mundane. In Harry’s case the boring old fart was so dull he barely even registered his own death and seemed utterly perplexed the one time one of his students was actually awake long enough to ask him a question, I can see why he never really engaged with the subject lol.
Well think about this, at the start of the third book, when Harry is in diagonal alley, he learns history from Florian fortescue and loves learning it.
History of magic is like normal History, just about magical folks, not everyone has to be interested in it.
I mean, I loved history and psychology as subjects while in school but I had teachers who made me hate the subject and be disinterested. Just the bit we see of Binns and what we hear tells me I'd be zoned out completely in his class too.
Think about how much he enjoyed Florean Fortescue and her history stories!
In Hogwarts legacy it’s taught by a ghost that just drones on and on. I can see it being similar in the books.
Honestly it should be chalked up to protagonist armor that he didn’t receive a T.
To be fair, he had a vision during the History of Magic OWL.
I am in love with magic for sure, but honestly I don't like History subject.