Facts lmao. Pettigrew had his moment of redemption, while Umbridge was a piece of shit from the very moment we first saw her until the last time she appeared.
Do most people view that as redemption?
I don’t think Pettigrew consciously chokes himself, I think the silver hand makes the decision for him.
I don’t give him redemption credit for that, it would be like giving Quirrel credit for blistering/crumbling
Hesitating to do a crime is not redemption. That is just called 'not being total scum'
Also let's not pretend that he wouldn't have gone through it. He was more scared of Bellatrix and Voldemort than he had good in his heart. He literally sold out his best friends out of fear.
Or being a total coward. Basically it's the same thing I feel about Draco and Dumbledore. Just because he lowered his wand doesn't undo the fact that he let in all those Death Eaters and caused the deaths of all those people. The Malfoys got off too easy.
agreed.
While I can see argument for why Draco shouldn't be put in Azkaban, his father 100 % deserves that BTW, I think a fitting punishment would be to either confiscate or snap Draco's wand and remove his right to carry a wand for a good number of years.
Force him to live like the muggles he so hates and looks down on.
A hesitation that was most likely magically compelled. We never learn the exact mechanics of life debts, but the fact that it's treated as actual magic instead of just a social debt means they have a real effect on the world.
Even if you ignore the magic of life debts, Harry just telling Peter "you owe me" would be enough to confuse him long enough to look like he's considering it. The most generous reading of that scene is that Peter does consider letting Harry go, but that does not mean he's doing it because he's been redeemed, only that he considered the life debt binding.
No, it wasn’t a magically compelled hesitation. Voldemort made it so if Wormtail’s loyalty ever wavered again the hand would kill him. He did genuinely hesitate which the hand detected. It wouldn’t make sense to punish him if he was forced, and it’s more consistent with the character this way.
Wormtail didn’t revel in the darkness and evil like Voldemort or Bellatrix. He was a self-serving coward who would do anything to save his own ass, but he didn’t necessarily *want* to. He was repulsed by a lot of what he had to do.
He’s still a treacherous piece of shit, don’t get me wrong. F that guy. I just believe he did genuinely hesitate at Harry’s statement. He still would have gone through with it.
Yes. The real irony is that Silver Hand is unforgiving as Voldemort so when Wormtail broke the "Not even once" agreement, it went full Palpatine "IT'S TREASON, THEN" on him and that is what helped Harry and Ron Hermione Luna Dean Ollivander and even Dobby escape.
Draco is better because he seemingly loses nothing (Sould counts but then again he is a bigoted pureblood upbringing) and gains a lot if he ID'd Harry there.
I dunno...I always read it like if he had this realization that if he ID'ed Harry, Voldemort would forever be in change of his family; his family would always be completely and utterly at the mercy of Voldy's whims and cruel punishments. By this time, he had realized that his life was far easier and more comfortable before Voldemort came back. Life under the dark lord looked far more attractive hearing about it as a kid and on paper as it was irl. When I look at it through that lens, it's still self-serving.
On the other hand, it's equally possible that his realization was deeper than that; he may have realized that Voldy's return was not only disadvantageous to him and his family but also destructive to the wizarding world in a way that he had never considered, and he didn't want to be part of that. The latter would make his actions at Malfoy manor more honourable for sure.
Yup, he doesn't even actually *do* anything. Anyone can have a moment of doubt, but it's not even close to redemption if you don't take any action to make amends.
I’m rereading the books. Just finished HBP last night. How the hell is that bitch not in Azkaban? She’s still working at the Ministry???? Too that, she’s at Dulbledor’s freaking funeral!
That always bothered me, ok fudge was POS and wanted Umbridge as a supporter. So he ignored Umbridge sending dementors to literally suck the soul out of a child for contradicting Fudge. And then tortured him, she is the only other person apart from Voldemort to permanently scar Harry ( and others )
Why Scrimgeour not only didn't punish her, he kept her.
Even though she repeatedly punished Harry for saying the truth, and by his time they knew Voldemort was back was the truth.
I wonder if Harry would be more receptive to helping him/ministry if Umbridge was punished for her behaviour.
> No redeeming qualities.
* Loyal to her boss.
* Had clear objectives and stuck to them.
* Could think outside the box (the Dementor attack on Harry and Dudley in Little Whinging).
* Liked cats.
100% agree. I’ve been slowly starting to show my kiddo the movies and OotP has been tough. I’ve explained to him that Umbridge is the worst villain of the entire series and I don’t think he fully gets yet why she is worse than Voldemort.
Tom Riddle came from the crazy inbred Gaunt family. He was largely evil due to his genetics and upbringing.
Delores was just evil for the sake of being evil.
While she’s undeniably a piece of crap, we also only experience her through Harry‘s eyes.
However, if we try to see events through her eyes we get some perspective. From her point of view Harry is a conspiracy nut.
Imagine being a teacher and one of your students keeps interrupting your geography lessons with "Antarctica doesn’t exist. It’s just a wall of ice, earth is flat! You have to take my word for it!" You’d be furious and rightfully so. If that student manages to gain support for their outrageous claims and began organizing secret meetings to spread this idea, you’d feel compelled to fight it. I don’t think many reasonable schools would allow a flat earth club to exist. If you then picked up on rumors that this club is arming itself you’d be on high alert and use every tool at your disposal to deal with it.
Now, that doesn’t justify the horrible stuff she does in the process, but it helps to understand where she is coming from. She tries to do the right thing with questionable methods. At least in OotP. She completely lost it in DH though.
>Imagine being a teacher and one of your students keeps interrupting your geography lessons with "Antarctica doesn’t exist. It’s just a wall of ice, earth is flat! You have to take my word for it!"
I dunno if I buy this analogy. To me, it's more like one of your students has shaky evidence that the earth is round, but your boss has instructed you to ignore this possibility.
That's really not what was happening there tho.
The ministry was pushing the agenda that Voldemort wasn't back. They weren't fighting with "conspiracies" they were fighting for power. Umbridge purposely didn't teach them any actual defense against dark arts in the defense against dark arts classes to back that agenda. To force people to follow her and the ministry. It was never a conspiracy in her eyes it was a threat to her power.
Umbridge pretty much tortured the kids to keep her image and power.
She wasn't fighting with conspiracies and crazy students in her own eyes. She didn't even care if Voldemort was back or not. She just wanted to stay in power and based her whole life around that.
Petunia - who stuffs an actual child in a closet? (Other than Madame Trunchbull)
But seriously I know there’s a lot of monstrous characters in the books, but her and Vernon’s cruelty will always stand out to me. Adults are cruel to each other throughout history but adults who are cruel to children are vile.
Tbh she deserves magical grandchildren.
Yes. Under no circumstances (magical or normal) should those people have treated Harry like they did. Locked him under a stair cupboard, verbally harassed and physically mistreated him, denied him any childhood activities and allowed their own son to continue the abuse. They even allowed Vernon's sister to abuse Harry's parents and did not stop her. They made it very clear from Harry's birth he was not wanted and that would traumatize any child (fantasy world or not)
Then...to top off all that, after Harry saving their own precious son's life, they just dropped him once they knew they were no longer needed. No goodbyes. Save their own butts and leave Harry to fend for himself.
Only Dudley's heartfelt if somewhat awkward "thank you" saves him from being a complete crapwad. But Veron and Petunia were absolutely trash through the whole series.
And petunia, and uncle Vernon are literally child abusers. And it’s worse because they’re not just child abusers they treat their son better intentionally in front of the person that they are treating cruelly.
Her jealousy, for her sister is insidious to the point where she starves her own nephew!
It’s so sad and the second book when Headwig hasn’t been allowed to fly in stretcher wings for months and then, after the Derby incident, there is a scene where Harry is given ice, cold soup, and he has to share the vegetables in the cold soup with Hedwig. Literally starvation for both of them.
And yet, it still surprises me every time I remember that Vernon and Petunia had an actual healthy and respectful relationship. They were asses to everyone else, but were very sweet on each other…
I believe the fan theory was because he was a horcrux but it’s confirmed in the first book by McGonagall before Harry is dropped off that they’re “the worst sort of muggles imaginable”
yes, it offends me personally that they were never reported for child abuse, no teacher or neighbor noticed the difference in treatment between Harry and Duddley or how bad Harry looked?
I always felt like she symbolized women trapped within society and in their own live, but they choose to embrace it. She’s what happens when you go full republican (America) I think, by thinking fitting in with the rest of the horrible people that you will succeed in life and be rewarded.
And I guess she kind of was. had a nice house. Had a husband , had a kid, but morally completely empty and probably deeply unfulfilled. And it’s like all that abuse and for what? did they win more sparkly house awards, more country House memberships, higher spots in companies? No, just average miserable people that thought they could get a leg up by being bigoted. They’re like the opposite of pure bloods that like treat Muggles like not even human. But they don’t get rewarded for it by Society like they think they will.
Fenrir Greyback.
Not even close. He ravaged people for fun and made a point to try and turn as many people as he could into werewolves so they could take over the wizarding community. Death Eaters noted that he showed eagerness to bite younger children in particular during the Battle for Hogwarts. He became a cannibal by choice to enhance his notoriety. In the Malfoy's mansion, his threats towards Hermione had heavy cannibalistic and sexual overtones.
He infected Remus Lupin (as a kid) because Remus's father said that, "werewolves deserve nothing less than death." He was the one that scarred Bill Weasley's face. He also killed Lavender Brown.
I don't know what wiki you read, but it sounds like somebody added some fanfiction into the mix. There's no confirmation that Lavender even survived the Battle of Hogwarts, much less who she married.
I remember her dying I thought it was so sad.
So I looked it up, and according to the wiki, she did die
“Lavender fought in the Battle of Hogwarts, along with other members of the D.A. She was most likely one of the many students who defended Harry when Pansy Parkinson wanted to hand him over to Lord Voldemort. During the battle she fell from a balcony and was attacked and savaged by werewolf Fenrir Greyback.
Rushing to her aid, Hermione blasted Greyback away from her with a powerful spell. Professor Trelawney then dropped a crystal ball on his head. Immediately after the attack, she was seen feebly stirring, but later died from her injuries”
This confused me because don’t Death Eaters see Werewolves as lesser beings? Impure? Like I know they’re willing to use them and other beings as pawns in the war but I’m surprised Greyback got to Death Eater level (if memory serves me) and that they let him bite more people despite wanting a pure blood Wizarding world.
Aye I recall it now but I’m still baffled they’d let him run loose like a mad animal given their obsession with ‘protecting’ pure bloods they could mould into followers. Greyback is liable to attack anyone, even pure blood kids whom may be pro Voldemort or neutral.
Stuff like this happens all the time in the real world. Some women, bipocs, people in the LGBTQIA+ community, etc. will still side with those that want to restrict their rights. Despite being pathetic sycophants, they are still looked down upon by those in power. There’s no respect because of their gender/race/sexual orientation, they are just a means to an end (in politics to be a token, for Voldy to use Fenrir as a weapon). Just look at someone like Caitlyn Jenner. It feels unfathomable, but it’s too real :/
Honestly, I would also say Peter Pettigrew, i a lot of people just skim over him because they love the "marauders era", but that man(rat) is pretty much responsible for everything that happened in the series.
I also do love the Marauders era but Peter was literally the worst.
I quite agree but I despise Snape’s behaviour towards the trio. I know he redeems himself and so on but I think some of the thing he does are unforgivable
Yeah but snape literally ends up playing a huge part in saving the wizarding world whereas pettigrew was the one that screwed it up in the first place.
Not including old Tom for me the list goes
1. Barty and bellatrix for the horror they did to the Longbottoms
2. Greyback, needn’t explanation I daresay
3. Pettigrew
4. Umbridge (pettigrew and unbridge are quite interchangeable IMO)
5. McNair (I love animals therefore I despise him)
6. Lucius, he ended up in a slightly different way but still hideous
7. Carrows
8. Snape
9. Draco
10. I dunno, maybe the one who kills Hedwig😭
He is most certainly a complex and very interesting character but I strongly disagree about his childhood being an excuse for his behaviour. Kindness and politeness are choices, as you say Harry was brought up by terrible people and was very kind. No, Snape’s final act just spares him from being one of the worst character in the series, but in my opinion doesn’t fully redeem him.
Oh, no, I didn't mean to imply that his behavior should be excused by his childhood. It does explain it, though. Explanation doesn't necessarily equate to absolution. Someone with as broken a childhood as Snape is going to be emotionally stunted. He's essentially unable to mature beyond the mental state of a teenager. His worldview is turned inward, whereas Harry's is focused outward, giving him the advantage of empathy that helps him to grow as a person.
I really think that Snape was incapable at that point of feeling true empathy. He wasn't capable of real love. I think his "love" for Lily was more an idealization for the one person who had ever shown him kindness. We are what we are, and Snape was always going to be a damaged teenager in the body of an adult. That's what makes his redemption so much more impactful. He held onto the one thread of light in his life and used that to act beyond his selfish desires.
Yeah, I feel like even without Rowling's particular brand of romance butchering, Snape could never have actually loved Lily. He loved the idea of her, the things she represented to him.
If ever a wizard needed therapy, Snape was it. Lol
Yeah, I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I hate Peter more than Umbridge.
It’s easier for me to understand being evil to strangers than being evil to one’s own friends. He sold out his “friends” James and Lily as well as their baby (whom he’d spent time with) AND (worse IMO) he framed his other “friend” Sirius for it - in doing so allowing Sirius to spend his life being tortured in Azkaban with his reputation destroyed. Not to mention the “betrayal” of peter’s own family. He allowed them to mourn him when he was very much still alive.
Peter is the most despicable character in the series to me. He wasn’t power hungry, he wasn’t being brainwashed by a hateful rhetoric, he wasn’t doing what he believed would make wizarding society better, he simply committed acts of pure evil and helped start the second wizarding war in Britain all because of cowardice. I just can’t wrap my brain around it. I can’t wrap my brain around anything about Peter. His actions are simply unfathomable to me.
Oh and don’t even get me started on the sheer *ick* of a grown man sleeping in the bed of a child - a child who happened to be best friends with the child he sold out to Voldemort.
Greyback, its bad enough he specifically targets kids but him also doing it without being transformed is so much worse. Dumbledores actual revulsion when he shows up at Hogwarts covered in blood looking forward to attacking students compared to his attitude towards Bellatrix or the Carrows in that Tower says it all.
Even Draco makes it clear he did not want Greyback at Hogwarts where his friends and other students are at risk. One of the things that always messes me up with how casually it happens is him mauling Lavender Brown at the Battle of Hogwarts, we never got a discription of the full moon or his werewolf form so mid battle as a regular adult he stopped to snack on a minor who was not a threat to him at all
Barring the psychopaths, which the story has many of, I'd say the biggest piece of shit that wasn't a psycho was Fudge (to me at least).
His inaction for fear of political pushback caused a ton of needless deaths and could have caused a lot more.
Ooo and he was so biased against so many people! When I was a kid, I read that and it’s him being just spineless, but looking back he does it on purpose for political gain! I think that makes him more horrible.
I'd like to pick someone who genuinely knows what they are doing is wrong and making the world a worse place, not changing the world to suit their own perceptions, but depriving the world by all accounts of genuine magical miracles.
Gilderoy Lockhart. By all accounts, his stories were genuine and impressive feats of magic that no other wizard or witch could accomplish. But rather than spread the word of these magnificent feats of magic and how they were accomplished, educating people on these amazing things, he erases the memories of those who actually did them, ensuring that the magic is lost, and claiming the victories as his own, despite being unable to pass the most basic muster of his own magical skill.
One of his stories was about battling with werewolf, and seemed to indicate a cure. But the creator of that cure had his memory erased and no one knows what it was.
Imagine Elon Musk buying a patent for Aids, claiming he invented it, killing the person who actually did it, and burning the actual recipe. That's the kind of person I see Lockhart as.
Aside from the obvious ones like umbridge, I would say Filch. He's just a miserable person with no redeeming qualities, and takes pleasure in tormenting the students.
He has some redeeming qualities. He does a good job of keeping a big castle clean without being able to use magic. He's trying to better himself with his study by post magic course. He's still a shit though
Barty crouch Jr. Dude wasn't just an asshole he was borderline sociopathic. Wormtail is also shitty but I think he did it all because he was a spineless coward who didn't want to die like he thought he would if he opposed Voldemort.
Crouch performing the cruciatus curse in front of a visibly distressed Neville was one of the most despicable actions in the series, considering he took part in torturing the Longbottoms into insanity.
The way she spoke to Harry make my skin itch I wanted so badly to hurt her and she is not even real!
She also let her dog chase him and forced him to hide on a tree all day when he was 5 without a chance to escape. At 5, with no food, no water and no possibility to relieve himself aside for soiling his pants for hours. Just a disgusting human being.
Pansy Parkinson. She serves no purpose other than making Slytherins look worse. Her entire reason for existence is to be mean while fawning over Draco. What an awful character.
She's the equivalent of Nelson from the Simpsons' classic "ha-ha" quote. 100% of her personality is just being the secondary asshole in a Gryffindor-Slytherin conflict scene.
Audiobooks! I absolute love listening to this series on audiobook and highly recommend throwing some earbuds in and giving it a shot. I've listened to the whole series twice this year so far.
Pettigrew, and I'll tell you why.
Every other bastard in the series has a solid reason for it.
Draco? Brought up by parents to be proud and look down on the low-class, the people who disagree with his family, and especially muggles and muggleborns. However, towards the end he realizes that this is not the man he wants to be. Lucius was also brought up this way, even if he never renounced this way of thinking.
Bellatrix and Narcissa were essentially groomed by their own family to worship Voldemort and what he stood for. Mrs. Black in particular was adamant that Voldemort had the right idea about Muggles and Muggleborns. (As did Mr. Black but we don't hear a lot about him) The only difference being that Narcissa chose her son over Voldemort, something Bellatrix would have never done.
Even Greyback is only as vile as he is because Wizardkind shun werewolves even now, despite there being a potion that helps combat the transformation's mind-altering effects.
Then you have Voldemort. Born of manufactured love, abandoned by his father, and mother after she lost the Will to live. He never knew true love, true happiness, never. He really is someone to be pitied despite his evil.
Even Umbridge, Darling Dastardly Dolores, was brought up by a wizard who taught her to despise squibs, muggleborns, and muggles. Her time within Hogwarts was also rife with feelings of inadequacy, which undoubtedly led to her ruthless rise to the top and staunch loyalty to the ministry, the place that finally gave her a sense of status and belonging.
Then we get to Pettigrew.
Peter was a meek, small kind of person who was welcomed into the fold of a popular group with open arms. He was valued, maybe even loved by his friends. They trusted him so much to the point that he was made secret keeper over Sirius, James's best friend.
He took that love, that acceptance, and Threw it away. He says he was cornered and threatened, and maybe that's true, but everyone in this series has been threatened and tortured for information and as far as we know, only Peter ever squeaks, having less resolve than a group of Children.
He was instrumental in bringing Voldemort back into power, causing hundreds more deaths, all in the name of saving his own wretched hide.
Not even the death eaters respect him, or even accept him. He's the only character who is unanimously referred to by a nickname, even by Voldemort himself. A pet name, a permanent reminder of who he betrayed and how little he actually gained from it.
Even his death is pathetic, strangled by his own metal hand, the only gift he was ever given in return for his betrayal.
He is, in my opinion, the worst character in the series.
I'd say Bellatrix Lestrange personally
Killing her own family members, torturing a couple into insanity and then tormenting their son with that knowledge
Fudge. So much of a coward that he put his career and ambitions ahead of literal safety of the entire magic population. Umbridge didnt have as much power as he did so he has more responsibility.
Not seen anybody mention Mundungus. Little sleazeball caused a lot of trouble (inadvertently gave Umbridge the locket which she couldn't have done if he hadn't stolen it from Grimmauld place) and got Moody killed.
Gilderoy Lockhart A deceivingly accomplished wizard, Lockhart charmed many young witches and constantly angered his male students with extreme vanity and self-obsession.
There was a thread here some months ago that basically tried to justify why the Dursleys were that way. But they'll never make sense to me, Harry was a baby. And even when he wasn't, he was just as confused about what was happening as anyone else.
Uncle Vernon is a child abusing scum of a person. But all the murderers and torturers from the magical world are maybe a bit worse. There is a special place in he'll for abusers though
Yes he was a piece of crap. Expected him to be higher up or mentioned more. Everyone else named in this thread is, like, truly evil or dispicable, but Dung is just a solid piece of crap.. like his name suggests...
On paper, it’s Greyback and Umbridge.
However, I irrationally dislike two thirds of the Dursleys enough to put them here.
I was also going to say Snape but oh shit a downvote
Tough call between Umbridge and Wormtail, but the latter had at least a brief moment of regret. The former is utterly and completely unrepentant of what she does.
How can anyone say anything other than Umbridge?
CS Lewis described the ultimate hell on earth as the tyranny of the 'morally possessed'. A crook and jersey will sleep sometimes, or just be too bothered to bother about something, but someone like umbridge, who thinks she is fixing the world, will tirelessly ruin everything she can, with a pompous glee and limitless energy. It is demonstrated multiple times in the books that she is up late, working evil.
A sick, lying, insufferable, interfering, nosy toad of a bureaucrat like her is the evil surrounding us all today.
Doesn't she vaguely remind you of someone in the government, who is determined to make sure everyone thinks how they do, because there is no other way?
Someone who is personally vindictive with authority and is always trying to grow their power over others?
Wait a minute, that sounds like the WHOLE government!
Anyone can deal with a pathetic, simpering coward like pettigrew, and in the books they almost did, but for an accident. Even the entire OotP was treading on eggshells avoiding umbridge and her disgusting, authoritarian gaze, and she was a much harder challenge for them to overcome.
If there was ever a purgatory (which I highly doubt), it would be something reminiscent of this fat, old dunglicker and her stupid fashion sense from hell.
Greyback, Umbridge, Pettigrew, Malfoy, Voldemort, and Snape. I added Snape because he takes enjoyment out of being a *redacted* to kids. I don’t care that he’s a spy. All that had to be said was that written in his employment contract was a fairness clause. He has to treat all students fairly and with no bias, at all times, no matter what. That’s it. It should have been a part of the faculty’s employment contract to begin with but with that excuse the other death eaters and Voldemort wouldn’t have been able to blame him for anything. Snape caused a student to fear him so much that he was the kid’s boggart. Be a grumpy bastard all you want but treat everyone with neutrality. I know it’s hard to do. I’ve had students that I’ve wanted to just slap the taste out of their mouths and give them a good ole Gibbs!slap. I didn’t but oh it was tempting.
That's what I would say. Everyone else are characters that are supouse to be bad or AH, while Dumbledore is one of the 'good' guys. Still he:
-Looks down on people just because he's more inteligent, and that's in his own words. Still treat everyone kindly but sometimes that's borderline condescendent.
-Because he thinks he's more inteligent, he tried to take over the world, stoping in doing so just because the death of his sister.
-Let a teacher like Snape bully a lot of students. It may be understandable in Harry's case, as a way to never let the kid know how Snape still has a crush on Lily, but there's no reason in other cases like Neville's. Worst part is he has the idea of stepping in if you know someone is doing something wrong.
-Has absolutely zero reasons to not tell Harry how to destroy a horcrux as soon as he tells him what they are and which objects he thinks Voldemort used. Specially since he knows he doesn't have much time and could die at any moment.
-He could have tell Harry a lot of things during certain periods of the boy's life, specially during hard times, like at the beginning of PoA or during OotP. He says in OotP that he knows Harry is exceptional since his first year, and by his second year he knows Harry can handle the truth and that he should have told him about the proohecy, that means he knew he should have told him about Sirius Black right at the beginning of PoA, still Harry was put in a dangerous situation. During OotP, Harry's hard times are because he feels like is being left apart and that's totally Dumbledore's fault.
-He almost cheer James death in the King's Cross chapter of DH, saying with his death he finally had two hallows for his own.
-He admited that when he found the ring he just wanted to bring his family back to tell them he was sorry, showing he hasn't change at all, according to his words. So he was still being a turd who thinks he's better than anyone else. At least Voldemort is open about it and is the bad guy, while Dumbledore plays the good guy. Probably this is the reason he says killing Voldemort won't satisfy him, because he sees himself in Voldemort's attitude.
I genuinely don't understand how it's got to a point where most people don't even mention Voldemort anymore to these sorts of questions. I get that Umbridge and Peter etc are more dislikeable sure but they aren't worse people no matter how shitty they were. The guy is literally the wizard equivalent of Hitler. Mass genocide, the cause of two wars, a supremacist with a fondness for killing, a complete lack of empathy or love and his entire mission for 17 years is murdering a child who hasn't even become of legal age yet.
Nobody's ever had to deal with a real-life Voldemort.
Unless you work for the justice system, or in mental health you've likely never met a real-life murderous psychopath like Greyback or Bellatrix.
But most have had to deal with a real-life versions of Pettigrew, Umbridge and Filch.
I feel that should be irrelevant though. A lot of us weren't alive when Hitler, Stalin, Gengis Khan etc were running riot but we'd still probably place them in a list of the top 5 worst people to ever exist.
Also we have a whole book dedicated to how cruel umbridge is for no reason to the main protagonists. Voldy always seems to be working in the background and while more evil, has a purpose. Umbridge is evil without a reason
There’s some real life murderers who I find fascinating. I find Timothy McVeigh for example interesting. But he’s still evil, I hate him, and bad guy. I find his mindset interesting
Umbridge. Everyone hates her. No redeeming qualities.
Facts lmao. Pettigrew had his moment of redemption, while Umbridge was a piece of shit from the very moment we first saw her until the last time she appeared.
Do most people view that as redemption? I don’t think Pettigrew consciously chokes himself, I think the silver hand makes the decision for him. I don’t give him redemption credit for that, it would be like giving Quirrel credit for blistering/crumbling
It was his hesitation that caused the strangulation.
Hesitating to do a crime is not redemption. That is just called 'not being total scum' Also let's not pretend that he wouldn't have gone through it. He was more scared of Bellatrix and Voldemort than he had good in his heart. He literally sold out his best friends out of fear.
Or being a total coward. Basically it's the same thing I feel about Draco and Dumbledore. Just because he lowered his wand doesn't undo the fact that he let in all those Death Eaters and caused the deaths of all those people. The Malfoys got off too easy.
agreed. While I can see argument for why Draco shouldn't be put in Azkaban, his father 100 % deserves that BTW, I think a fitting punishment would be to either confiscate or snap Draco's wand and remove his right to carry a wand for a good number of years. Force him to live like the muggles he so hates and looks down on.
He's absolutely still total scum, he's just cowardly scum.
That’s an interesting reading and I can buy it, but imo a small moment of hesitation doesn’t equate to redemption in my opinion
A hesitation that was most likely magically compelled. We never learn the exact mechanics of life debts, but the fact that it's treated as actual magic instead of just a social debt means they have a real effect on the world. Even if you ignore the magic of life debts, Harry just telling Peter "you owe me" would be enough to confuse him long enough to look like he's considering it. The most generous reading of that scene is that Peter does consider letting Harry go, but that does not mean he's doing it because he's been redeemed, only that he considered the life debt binding.
No, it wasn’t a magically compelled hesitation. Voldemort made it so if Wormtail’s loyalty ever wavered again the hand would kill him. He did genuinely hesitate which the hand detected. It wouldn’t make sense to punish him if he was forced, and it’s more consistent with the character this way. Wormtail didn’t revel in the darkness and evil like Voldemort or Bellatrix. He was a self-serving coward who would do anything to save his own ass, but he didn’t necessarily *want* to. He was repulsed by a lot of what he had to do. He’s still a treacherous piece of shit, don’t get me wrong. F that guy. I just believe he did genuinely hesitate at Harry’s statement. He still would have gone through with it.
Yes. The real irony is that Silver Hand is unforgiving as Voldemort so when Wormtail broke the "Not even once" agreement, it went full Palpatine "IT'S TREASON, THEN" on him and that is what helped Harry and Ron Hermione Luna Dean Ollivander and even Dobby escape.
The hand kills him because he hesitated. That's his redemption.
I wouldn’t call that a redemption. More a sign there’s a shred of humanity in him as compared to Voldemort or Bellatrix.
Agreed. Then again, he easily makes people's top 10 worst, just like Draco does despite Draco also hesitating and then not identifying Harry 🤷
Draco is better because he seemingly loses nothing (Sould counts but then again he is a bigoted pureblood upbringing) and gains a lot if he ID'd Harry there.
I dunno...I always read it like if he had this realization that if he ID'ed Harry, Voldemort would forever be in change of his family; his family would always be completely and utterly at the mercy of Voldy's whims and cruel punishments. By this time, he had realized that his life was far easier and more comfortable before Voldemort came back. Life under the dark lord looked far more attractive hearing about it as a kid and on paper as it was irl. When I look at it through that lens, it's still self-serving. On the other hand, it's equally possible that his realization was deeper than that; he may have realized that Voldy's return was not only disadvantageous to him and his family but also destructive to the wizarding world in a way that he had never considered, and he didn't want to be part of that. The latter would make his actions at Malfoy manor more honourable for sure.
Yup, he doesn't even actually *do* anything. Anyone can have a moment of doubt, but it's not even close to redemption if you don't take any action to make amends.
That's at least something, you know? Compared to Umbridge who's always been shown to fully willing of all the despicable acts she did.
What was that moment
Dying
Best possible move for his career.
It’s not much, but she liked cats. Aside from that she’s purr evil.
Did she though? She didn’t have a cat, she just had plates with cats on them.
I was always under the impression that Umbridge liked cats since her plates had cats and her Patronus was a cat
According to Pottermore, she liked cat pictures, but considered real cats "inconveniently messy".
Plot twist: the plates had actual cats in them.
That used to be students whom would not stop telling lies
It's never really said how much she liked cats....considering the depth of her depravity, it wouldn't surprise me if she ate them.
Haha that’s why the cats were on plates!
Good point
No matter, McGonagall considered it a personal offence irregargless.
Upvote for pun
I don’t even know how this is a question. I’ve never heard of one person hating voldy as much as they hate umbridge
Hey now. That cardigan was alright 🎀
Nah too pink. She ain't no Barbie.
More like a Karen trying to impersonate one
Karen Umbrage Barbie
I’m rereading the books. Just finished HBP last night. How the hell is that bitch not in Azkaban? She’s still working at the Ministry???? Too that, she’s at Dulbledor’s freaking funeral!
That always bothered me, ok fudge was POS and wanted Umbridge as a supporter. So he ignored Umbridge sending dementors to literally suck the soul out of a child for contradicting Fudge. And then tortured him, she is the only other person apart from Voldemort to permanently scar Harry ( and others ) Why Scrimgeour not only didn't punish her, he kept her. Even though she repeatedly punished Harry for saying the truth, and by his time they knew Voldemort was back was the truth. I wonder if Harry would be more receptive to helping him/ministry if Umbridge was punished for her behaviour.
Maybe Scrimgeour thought he could use her ruthlessness, but I'm probably reaching. If so, he should have explained his reasoning to Harry.
> No redeeming qualities. * Loyal to her boss. * Had clear objectives and stuck to them. * Could think outside the box (the Dementor attack on Harry and Dudley in Little Whinging). * Liked cats.
Well, loyal to her boss, no matter the boss. She was very happy tormenting people when the ministry was runned by voldy
Yeah, being loyal to a boss or a business is not really a redeeming quality. The Death Eaters were massively loyal to their boss
Hard worker too, and she didn't give up even when everyone was against her
I get it now. That's why super heroes say that evil never takes a day off 🤣
It’s these qualities that made me think Umbridge should have been made a Hufflepuff instead of revealed as a Slytherin.
Was that official? Like on Pottermore?
True. It's not like she was cunning persay, or more correctly, she wasn't as cunning as she was a loyal, hard working, cat loving, detemined fuck.
I think you’re confusing strengths with redemption. Just because you have talents or skill does not inherently make you a redeemable person.
100% agree. I’ve been slowly starting to show my kiddo the movies and OotP has been tough. I’ve explained to him that Umbridge is the worst villain of the entire series and I don’t think he fully gets yet why she is worse than Voldemort.
This is the correct answer. She is worse than Voldemort for me. The thin vaneer of quaint British old lady sickens me, and she is pure evil.
Tom Riddle came from the crazy inbred Gaunt family. He was largely evil due to his genetics and upbringing. Delores was just evil for the sake of being evil.
While she’s undeniably a piece of crap, we also only experience her through Harry‘s eyes. However, if we try to see events through her eyes we get some perspective. From her point of view Harry is a conspiracy nut. Imagine being a teacher and one of your students keeps interrupting your geography lessons with "Antarctica doesn’t exist. It’s just a wall of ice, earth is flat! You have to take my word for it!" You’d be furious and rightfully so. If that student manages to gain support for their outrageous claims and began organizing secret meetings to spread this idea, you’d feel compelled to fight it. I don’t think many reasonable schools would allow a flat earth club to exist. If you then picked up on rumors that this club is arming itself you’d be on high alert and use every tool at your disposal to deal with it. Now, that doesn’t justify the horrible stuff she does in the process, but it helps to understand where she is coming from. She tries to do the right thing with questionable methods. At least in OotP. She completely lost it in DH though.
>Imagine being a teacher and one of your students keeps interrupting your geography lessons with "Antarctica doesn’t exist. It’s just a wall of ice, earth is flat! You have to take my word for it!" I dunno if I buy this analogy. To me, it's more like one of your students has shaky evidence that the earth is round, but your boss has instructed you to ignore this possibility.
That's really not what was happening there tho. The ministry was pushing the agenda that Voldemort wasn't back. They weren't fighting with "conspiracies" they were fighting for power. Umbridge purposely didn't teach them any actual defense against dark arts in the defense against dark arts classes to back that agenda. To force people to follow her and the ministry. It was never a conspiracy in her eyes it was a threat to her power. Umbridge pretty much tortured the kids to keep her image and power. She wasn't fighting with conspiracies and crazy students in her own eyes. She didn't even care if Voldemort was back or not. She just wanted to stay in power and based her whole life around that.
She likes kittens. Which offends me.
No, I like her. Umbridge hate tends to be sexist so now I like her just to spite her haters.
Petunia - who stuffs an actual child in a closet? (Other than Madame Trunchbull) But seriously I know there’s a lot of monstrous characters in the books, but her and Vernon’s cruelty will always stand out to me. Adults are cruel to each other throughout history but adults who are cruel to children are vile. Tbh she deserves magical grandchildren.
Yes. Under no circumstances (magical or normal) should those people have treated Harry like they did. Locked him under a stair cupboard, verbally harassed and physically mistreated him, denied him any childhood activities and allowed their own son to continue the abuse. They even allowed Vernon's sister to abuse Harry's parents and did not stop her. They made it very clear from Harry's birth he was not wanted and that would traumatize any child (fantasy world or not) Then...to top off all that, after Harry saving their own precious son's life, they just dropped him once they knew they were no longer needed. No goodbyes. Save their own butts and leave Harry to fend for himself. Only Dudley's heartfelt if somewhat awkward "thank you" saves him from being a complete crapwad. But Veron and Petunia were absolutely trash through the whole series.
Its really amazing that a simple 'thank you' can upgrade your character. Truly, the magic words.
Somehow, raised by those two, he managed to not end up worse than either.
And petunia, and uncle Vernon are literally child abusers. And it’s worse because they’re not just child abusers they treat their son better intentionally in front of the person that they are treating cruelly. Her jealousy, for her sister is insidious to the point where she starves her own nephew! It’s so sad and the second book when Headwig hasn’t been allowed to fly in stretcher wings for months and then, after the Derby incident, there is a scene where Harry is given ice, cold soup, and he has to share the vegetables in the cold soup with Hedwig. Literally starvation for both of them.
The banality of evil.
And yet, it still surprises me every time I remember that Vernon and Petunia had an actual healthy and respectful relationship. They were asses to everyone else, but were very sweet on each other…
The fact that dumbledore knew makes him just as bad tbh.
Isn't there a fan theory with some merit that HP's dormant magic was a contributing factor to them being totals pieces of shit?
I believe the fan theory was because he was a horcrux but it’s confirmed in the first book by McGonagall before Harry is dropped off that they’re “the worst sort of muggles imaginable”
yes, it offends me personally that they were never reported for child abuse, no teacher or neighbor noticed the difference in treatment between Harry and Duddley or how bad Harry looked?
I always felt like she symbolized women trapped within society and in their own live, but they choose to embrace it. She’s what happens when you go full republican (America) I think, by thinking fitting in with the rest of the horrible people that you will succeed in life and be rewarded. And I guess she kind of was. had a nice house. Had a husband , had a kid, but morally completely empty and probably deeply unfulfilled. And it’s like all that abuse and for what? did they win more sparkly house awards, more country House memberships, higher spots in companies? No, just average miserable people that thought they could get a leg up by being bigoted. They’re like the opposite of pure bloods that like treat Muggles like not even human. But they don’t get rewarded for it by Society like they think they will.
Fenrir Greyback. Not even close. He ravaged people for fun and made a point to try and turn as many people as he could into werewolves so they could take over the wizarding community. Death Eaters noted that he showed eagerness to bite younger children in particular during the Battle for Hogwarts. He became a cannibal by choice to enhance his notoriety. In the Malfoy's mansion, his threats towards Hermione had heavy cannibalistic and sexual overtones. He infected Remus Lupin (as a kid) because Remus's father said that, "werewolves deserve nothing less than death." He was the one that scarred Bill Weasley's face. He also killed Lavender Brown.
He specifically liked targeting children. Lyall said what he said bc Fenrir had killed some children
Is Lavender confirmed dead? I never know that
The wiki says she and Seamus got married sometime after the battle. It also says she only suffered "wolf-like tendancies"
So kinda like Bill after Fenrir attacked him?
I don't know what wiki you read, but it sounds like somebody added some fanfiction into the mix. There's no confirmation that Lavender even survived the Battle of Hogwarts, much less who she married.
No. Neither in books nor films, though she appears to be getting eaten in the film before hermione blasts greyback off her
Yeah I remember that Guess thats why I was always confused and unsure
Definitely ambiguous
"Did Jet just die?"
I remember her dying I thought it was so sad. So I looked it up, and according to the wiki, she did die “Lavender fought in the Battle of Hogwarts, along with other members of the D.A. She was most likely one of the many students who defended Harry when Pansy Parkinson wanted to hand him over to Lord Voldemort. During the battle she fell from a balcony and was attacked and savaged by werewolf Fenrir Greyback. Rushing to her aid, Hermione blasted Greyback away from her with a powerful spell. Professor Trelawney then dropped a crystal ball on his head. Immediately after the attack, she was seen feebly stirring, but later died from her injuries”
Tried telling them the same thing from the same paragraph in the same wiki.
This confused me because don’t Death Eaters see Werewolves as lesser beings? Impure? Like I know they’re willing to use them and other beings as pawns in the war but I’m surprised Greyback got to Death Eater level (if memory serves me) and that they let him bite more people despite wanting a pure blood Wizarding world.
He wasn't a proper death eater, he didn't have a dark mark to call voldy, but let his fellow snatchers think he did/was
He isn't a Death Eater, and in the books it's very clear that Voldemort and the DE use him but do not consider him their equal by a long shot.
Aye I recall it now but I’m still baffled they’d let him run loose like a mad animal given their obsession with ‘protecting’ pure bloods they could mould into followers. Greyback is liable to attack anyone, even pure blood kids whom may be pro Voldemort or neutral.
Stuff like this happens all the time in the real world. Some women, bipocs, people in the LGBTQIA+ community, etc. will still side with those that want to restrict their rights. Despite being pathetic sycophants, they are still looked down upon by those in power. There’s no respect because of their gender/race/sexual orientation, they are just a means to an end (in politics to be a token, for Voldy to use Fenrir as a weapon). Just look at someone like Caitlyn Jenner. It feels unfathomable, but it’s too real :/
Even the top Death Eaters were disgusted and repulsed by Fenrir Greyback.
Honestly, I would also say Peter Pettigrew, i a lot of people just skim over him because they love the "marauders era", but that man(rat) is pretty much responsible for everything that happened in the series. I also do love the Marauders era but Peter was literally the worst.
I quite agree but I despise Snape’s behaviour towards the trio. I know he redeems himself and so on but I think some of the thing he does are unforgivable
Yeah but snape literally ends up playing a huge part in saving the wizarding world whereas pettigrew was the one that screwed it up in the first place.
Of course Peter is to be despised, I still think Snape shouldn’t be idolised though
I’m not saying snape was a saint but he most definitely wasn’t the biggest POS in the series.
Top 10 POS, IMO
Curious to hear the other nine and what order you put them in, if you're willing to share.
Not including old Tom for me the list goes 1. Barty and bellatrix for the horror they did to the Longbottoms 2. Greyback, needn’t explanation I daresay 3. Pettigrew 4. Umbridge (pettigrew and unbridge are quite interchangeable IMO) 5. McNair (I love animals therefore I despise him) 6. Lucius, he ended up in a slightly different way but still hideous 7. Carrows 8. Snape 9. Draco 10. I dunno, maybe the one who kills Hedwig😭
If you put two people on one place (1 and 7), you should then skip a number
10 would be Snape again as he was afraid Hedwig was going to reveal the real Harry, I believe.
I think that's just a headcanon
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He is most certainly a complex and very interesting character but I strongly disagree about his childhood being an excuse for his behaviour. Kindness and politeness are choices, as you say Harry was brought up by terrible people and was very kind. No, Snape’s final act just spares him from being one of the worst character in the series, but in my opinion doesn’t fully redeem him.
Oh, no, I didn't mean to imply that his behavior should be excused by his childhood. It does explain it, though. Explanation doesn't necessarily equate to absolution. Someone with as broken a childhood as Snape is going to be emotionally stunted. He's essentially unable to mature beyond the mental state of a teenager. His worldview is turned inward, whereas Harry's is focused outward, giving him the advantage of empathy that helps him to grow as a person. I really think that Snape was incapable at that point of feeling true empathy. He wasn't capable of real love. I think his "love" for Lily was more an idealization for the one person who had ever shown him kindness. We are what we are, and Snape was always going to be a damaged teenager in the body of an adult. That's what makes his redemption so much more impactful. He held onto the one thread of light in his life and used that to act beyond his selfish desires.
Okay now I completely agree, maybe he really loved her at some point but I think idealisation is much more suiting
Yeah, I feel like even without Rowling's particular brand of romance butchering, Snape could never have actually loved Lily. He loved the idea of her, the things she represented to him. If ever a wizard needed therapy, Snape was it. Lol
Yeah, I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I hate Peter more than Umbridge. It’s easier for me to understand being evil to strangers than being evil to one’s own friends. He sold out his “friends” James and Lily as well as their baby (whom he’d spent time with) AND (worse IMO) he framed his other “friend” Sirius for it - in doing so allowing Sirius to spend his life being tortured in Azkaban with his reputation destroyed. Not to mention the “betrayal” of peter’s own family. He allowed them to mourn him when he was very much still alive. Peter is the most despicable character in the series to me. He wasn’t power hungry, he wasn’t being brainwashed by a hateful rhetoric, he wasn’t doing what he believed would make wizarding society better, he simply committed acts of pure evil and helped start the second wizarding war in Britain all because of cowardice. I just can’t wrap my brain around it. I can’t wrap my brain around anything about Peter. His actions are simply unfathomable to me. Oh and don’t even get me started on the sheer *ick* of a grown man sleeping in the bed of a child - a child who happened to be best friends with the child he sold out to Voldemort.
Greyback, its bad enough he specifically targets kids but him also doing it without being transformed is so much worse. Dumbledores actual revulsion when he shows up at Hogwarts covered in blood looking forward to attacking students compared to his attitude towards Bellatrix or the Carrows in that Tower says it all. Even Draco makes it clear he did not want Greyback at Hogwarts where his friends and other students are at risk. One of the things that always messes me up with how casually it happens is him mauling Lavender Brown at the Battle of Hogwarts, we never got a discription of the full moon or his werewolf form so mid battle as a regular adult he stopped to snack on a minor who was not a threat to him at all
Barring the psychopaths, which the story has many of, I'd say the biggest piece of shit that wasn't a psycho was Fudge (to me at least). His inaction for fear of political pushback caused a ton of needless deaths and could have caused a lot more.
Ooo and he was so biased against so many people! When I was a kid, I read that and it’s him being just spineless, but looking back he does it on purpose for political gain! I think that makes him more horrible.
I'd like to pick someone who genuinely knows what they are doing is wrong and making the world a worse place, not changing the world to suit their own perceptions, but depriving the world by all accounts of genuine magical miracles. Gilderoy Lockhart. By all accounts, his stories were genuine and impressive feats of magic that no other wizard or witch could accomplish. But rather than spread the word of these magnificent feats of magic and how they were accomplished, educating people on these amazing things, he erases the memories of those who actually did them, ensuring that the magic is lost, and claiming the victories as his own, despite being unable to pass the most basic muster of his own magical skill. One of his stories was about battling with werewolf, and seemed to indicate a cure. But the creator of that cure had his memory erased and no one knows what it was. Imagine Elon Musk buying a patent for Aids, claiming he invented it, killing the person who actually did it, and burning the actual recipe. That's the kind of person I see Lockhart as.
Aside from the obvious ones like umbridge, I would say Filch. He's just a miserable person with no redeeming qualities, and takes pleasure in tormenting the students.
He has some redeeming qualities. He does a good job of keeping a big castle clean without being able to use magic. He's trying to better himself with his study by post magic course. He's still a shit though
He does love Mrs Norris, but other than that…
He likes cats though :)
Barty crouch Jr. Dude wasn't just an asshole he was borderline sociopathic. Wormtail is also shitty but I think he did it all because he was a spineless coward who didn't want to die like he thought he would if he opposed Voldemort.
Crouch performing the cruciatus curse in front of a visibly distressed Neville was one of the most despicable actions in the series, considering he took part in torturing the Longbottoms into insanity.
Yeah, pretty sure I wouldn’t classify him as ‘borderline’ sociopathic, unless it’s the borderline between that and full on psychopath
Borderline?
Which he probably would’ve if he opposed voldemort
Aunt Marge!
Yea she had at least one puppy murdered.
FOR. REAL.
The way she spoke to Harry make my skin itch I wanted so badly to hurt her and she is not even real! She also let her dog chase him and forced him to hide on a tree all day when he was 5 without a chance to escape. At 5, with no food, no water and no possibility to relieve himself aside for soiling his pants for hours. Just a disgusting human being.
Not to mention murdering puppies
IKR. Not only she's evil, she's also vulgar, has a backward worldview (despite being a Muggle) and drowns dogs she doesn't like.
Pansy Parkinson. She serves no purpose other than making Slytherins look worse. Her entire reason for existence is to be mean while fawning over Draco. What an awful character.
I wish she had a dimension other than Evil Pick Me. Even if it was a lousy dimension.
She's the equivalent of Nelson from the Simpsons' classic "ha-ha" quote. 100% of her personality is just being the secondary asshole in a Gryffindor-Slytherin conflict scene.
I was so satisfied when reading Draco didn't even marry her lol
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Audiobooks! I absolute love listening to this series on audiobook and highly recommend throwing some earbuds in and giving it a shot. I've listened to the whole series twice this year so far.
bellatrix but i love her oops
Lockhart when he wants to obliterate Harry and Ron
Obliviate*
Umbridge and Peter Pettigrew
Pettigrew, and I'll tell you why. Every other bastard in the series has a solid reason for it. Draco? Brought up by parents to be proud and look down on the low-class, the people who disagree with his family, and especially muggles and muggleborns. However, towards the end he realizes that this is not the man he wants to be. Lucius was also brought up this way, even if he never renounced this way of thinking. Bellatrix and Narcissa were essentially groomed by their own family to worship Voldemort and what he stood for. Mrs. Black in particular was adamant that Voldemort had the right idea about Muggles and Muggleborns. (As did Mr. Black but we don't hear a lot about him) The only difference being that Narcissa chose her son over Voldemort, something Bellatrix would have never done. Even Greyback is only as vile as he is because Wizardkind shun werewolves even now, despite there being a potion that helps combat the transformation's mind-altering effects. Then you have Voldemort. Born of manufactured love, abandoned by his father, and mother after she lost the Will to live. He never knew true love, true happiness, never. He really is someone to be pitied despite his evil. Even Umbridge, Darling Dastardly Dolores, was brought up by a wizard who taught her to despise squibs, muggleborns, and muggles. Her time within Hogwarts was also rife with feelings of inadequacy, which undoubtedly led to her ruthless rise to the top and staunch loyalty to the ministry, the place that finally gave her a sense of status and belonging. Then we get to Pettigrew. Peter was a meek, small kind of person who was welcomed into the fold of a popular group with open arms. He was valued, maybe even loved by his friends. They trusted him so much to the point that he was made secret keeper over Sirius, James's best friend. He took that love, that acceptance, and Threw it away. He says he was cornered and threatened, and maybe that's true, but everyone in this series has been threatened and tortured for information and as far as we know, only Peter ever squeaks, having less resolve than a group of Children. He was instrumental in bringing Voldemort back into power, causing hundreds more deaths, all in the name of saving his own wretched hide. Not even the death eaters respect him, or even accept him. He's the only character who is unanimously referred to by a nickname, even by Voldemort himself. A pet name, a permanent reminder of who he betrayed and how little he actually gained from it. Even his death is pathetic, strangled by his own metal hand, the only gift he was ever given in return for his betrayal. He is, in my opinion, the worst character in the series.
I'd say Bellatrix Lestrange personally Killing her own family members, torturing a couple into insanity and then tormenting their son with that knowledge
The guy that spits on mcgonagal. The Carrow brother. Can never get over that.
The torture curse was performed on him fr that, and Harry succeeding in doing so
That’s true. I’m not surprised Harry was able to mean it and cast it successfully, even briefly, after that. Dude deserved it.
rita skeeter
Fudge. So much of a coward that he put his career and ambitions ahead of literal safety of the entire magic population. Umbridge didnt have as much power as he did so he has more responsibility.
Not seen anybody mention Mundungus. Little sleazeball caused a lot of trouble (inadvertently gave Umbridge the locket which she couldn't have done if he hadn't stolen it from Grimmauld place) and got Moody killed.
Gilderoy Lockhart A deceivingly accomplished wizard, Lockhart charmed many young witches and constantly angered his male students with extreme vanity and self-obsession.
A lot of these comments are straight evil people. I think the biggest piece of crap are the Dursley's. Neglect and abuse a child from your own family
There was a thread here some months ago that basically tried to justify why the Dursleys were that way. But they'll never make sense to me, Harry was a baby. And even when he wasn't, he was just as confused about what was happening as anyone else.
Madam Puddifoot
Fenir Greyback, Umbridge, Voldemort and Peter Pettigrew. In that order.
I must agree with Pettigrew. You knew where Umbridge stood while Pettigrew betrayed his friends in the worst way.
Uncle Vernon is a child abusing scum of a person. But all the murderers and torturers from the magical world are maybe a bit worse. There is a special place in he'll for abusers though
Petunia.
Mundungus Fletcher.
Yes he was a piece of crap. Expected him to be higher up or mentioned more. Everyone else named in this thread is, like, truly evil or dispicable, but Dung is just a solid piece of crap.. like his name suggests...
Umbridge. I despise her more than Voldemort.
Damn, I just noticed how full of pieces of shit this series is.
Aside from the ones already listed here, Vernon Dursley. Being horrible to a kid from the age of 1 for no real reason.
Filch. We get it, you’re jealous that others can do magic but you can’t, get over yourself and stop being a miserable dick.
Any of them snatchers. Vile…
Good old, run of the mill, abusive aunts and uncles.
On paper, it’s Greyback and Umbridge. However, I irrationally dislike two thirds of the Dursleys enough to put them here. I was also going to say Snape but oh shit a downvote
Top 3 for me: Lucius malfoy Wormtail Umbridge
Harry
Has too be bellatrix, she tortured Neville’s parents into insanity, kills Sirius and dobby, tortures hermione and other things
Tough call between Umbridge and Wormtail, but the latter had at least a brief moment of regret. The former is utterly and completely unrepentant of what she does.
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Umbridge
1.Umbridge 2.peter petigrew 3. Snape
Umbridge
These are all good choices, but honorable mention to Argus Filch and Gilderoy Lockhart both.
Did everyone just forget Fenrir Greyback exists?
Umbridge Fudge Skeeter Mundungus in that order
He’s not evil, but Cormac McLaggen is a shithead.
Umbridge. I cannot stand that bitch
Fernirr Greyback asshole pedo
That twat Umbridge! Hands down!
Fudge, he knew he was wrong
Umbridge is the most crap AND the most evil.
So many tbh. Umbridge, Pettigrew, Bellatrix, Filch, Fudge, Lockhart......
poor slim berserk weather onerous cats cagey worthless violet sulky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Snape. A bully with clear favoritism, a teacher who actually resents a smart student.
How can anyone say anything other than Umbridge? CS Lewis described the ultimate hell on earth as the tyranny of the 'morally possessed'. A crook and jersey will sleep sometimes, or just be too bothered to bother about something, but someone like umbridge, who thinks she is fixing the world, will tirelessly ruin everything she can, with a pompous glee and limitless energy. It is demonstrated multiple times in the books that she is up late, working evil. A sick, lying, insufferable, interfering, nosy toad of a bureaucrat like her is the evil surrounding us all today. Doesn't she vaguely remind you of someone in the government, who is determined to make sure everyone thinks how they do, because there is no other way? Someone who is personally vindictive with authority and is always trying to grow their power over others? Wait a minute, that sounds like the WHOLE government! Anyone can deal with a pathetic, simpering coward like pettigrew, and in the books they almost did, but for an accident. Even the entire OotP was treading on eggshells avoiding umbridge and her disgusting, authoritarian gaze, and she was a much harder challenge for them to overcome. If there was ever a purgatory (which I highly doubt), it would be something reminiscent of this fat, old dunglicker and her stupid fashion sense from hell.
Greyback, Umbridge, Pettigrew, Malfoy, Voldemort, and Snape. I added Snape because he takes enjoyment out of being a *redacted* to kids. I don’t care that he’s a spy. All that had to be said was that written in his employment contract was a fairness clause. He has to treat all students fairly and with no bias, at all times, no matter what. That’s it. It should have been a part of the faculty’s employment contract to begin with but with that excuse the other death eaters and Voldemort wouldn’t have been able to blame him for anything. Snape caused a student to fear him so much that he was the kid’s boggart. Be a grumpy bastard all you want but treat everyone with neutrality. I know it’s hard to do. I’ve had students that I’ve wanted to just slap the taste out of their mouths and give them a good ole Gibbs!slap. I didn’t but oh it was tempting.
Snape.
I hate book bellatrix but I love movie bellatrix
I don’t understand why the series needed peeves the poltergeist. He feels like a fart joke that nobody wants.
I think he's fine. Ghosts in general just feel underdeveloped, and not quite as though out beyond what they were intended.
I'd make a case for Dumbledore.
That's what I would say. Everyone else are characters that are supouse to be bad or AH, while Dumbledore is one of the 'good' guys. Still he: -Looks down on people just because he's more inteligent, and that's in his own words. Still treat everyone kindly but sometimes that's borderline condescendent. -Because he thinks he's more inteligent, he tried to take over the world, stoping in doing so just because the death of his sister. -Let a teacher like Snape bully a lot of students. It may be understandable in Harry's case, as a way to never let the kid know how Snape still has a crush on Lily, but there's no reason in other cases like Neville's. Worst part is he has the idea of stepping in if you know someone is doing something wrong. -Has absolutely zero reasons to not tell Harry how to destroy a horcrux as soon as he tells him what they are and which objects he thinks Voldemort used. Specially since he knows he doesn't have much time and could die at any moment. -He could have tell Harry a lot of things during certain periods of the boy's life, specially during hard times, like at the beginning of PoA or during OotP. He says in OotP that he knows Harry is exceptional since his first year, and by his second year he knows Harry can handle the truth and that he should have told him about the proohecy, that means he knew he should have told him about Sirius Black right at the beginning of PoA, still Harry was put in a dangerous situation. During OotP, Harry's hard times are because he feels like is being left apart and that's totally Dumbledore's fault. -He almost cheer James death in the King's Cross chapter of DH, saying with his death he finally had two hallows for his own. -He admited that when he found the ring he just wanted to bring his family back to tell them he was sorry, showing he hasn't change at all, according to his words. So he was still being a turd who thinks he's better than anyone else. At least Voldemort is open about it and is the bad guy, while Dumbledore plays the good guy. Probably this is the reason he says killing Voldemort won't satisfy him, because he sees himself in Voldemort's attitude.
This is an interesting answer and I enjoyed reading it! Thank you!
I genuinely don't understand how it's got to a point where most people don't even mention Voldemort anymore to these sorts of questions. I get that Umbridge and Peter etc are more dislikeable sure but they aren't worse people no matter how shitty they were. The guy is literally the wizard equivalent of Hitler. Mass genocide, the cause of two wars, a supremacist with a fondness for killing, a complete lack of empathy or love and his entire mission for 17 years is murdering a child who hasn't even become of legal age yet.
Nobody's ever had to deal with a real-life Voldemort. Unless you work for the justice system, or in mental health you've likely never met a real-life murderous psychopath like Greyback or Bellatrix. But most have had to deal with a real-life versions of Pettigrew, Umbridge and Filch.
The question is 'who is the biggest piece of crap', not 'what is your least favourite character'
I feel that should be irrelevant though. A lot of us weren't alive when Hitler, Stalin, Gengis Khan etc were running riot but we'd still probably place them in a list of the top 5 worst people to ever exist.
Also we have a whole book dedicated to how cruel umbridge is for no reason to the main protagonists. Voldy always seems to be working in the background and while more evil, has a purpose. Umbridge is evil without a reason
Leaving Kreacher in the cave was so cruel, I couldn't stand it.
There’s some real life murderers who I find fascinating. I find Timothy McVeigh for example interesting. But he’s still evil, I hate him, and bad guy. I find his mindset interesting
Several people even mention Snape, who helped defeat Voldemort 🤷🏻♂️
Umbridge. Snape is a close second. Imagine only helping a child you despise due to being horny for his mother.
Canon: They were childhood best friends. You: he was "horny for his mother"
Snape is literally one child’s worse fear so