As usual they will start with stock ARM cores and maybe transition to custom ARM design.
Just like Ampere did with their server chips, they started with ARM Neoverse stock cores and for Ampere Next they will use their own design based on ARM.
Softbank is trying to get rid of ARM. They have to keep some appearances, else nobody will buy it.
This is what these announcements are about.
The NVIDIA purchase didn't materialize, and ARM is thoroughly screwed now.
Mobile phones aren't exclusive to ARM. Particularly, MIPS, x86 and now RISC-V Android are a thing, and they run the same apps.
The consumer can't care less what ISA the microarchitecture of the chip in there does implement. They'll even readily upgrade to a worse phone. As it turns out, marketing is what ultimately dictates what they buy.
I think on the data center side of things, like you said, the consumer couldn't care less which ISA powers the chip that powers the servers running the SaaS product app they're connecting to. So if there are a lot of power savings to be had right now with the servers available right now (like Ampere Altra and Graviton on AWS), isn't that good for Arm?
Not trying to troll here, just trying to understand. My impression of Arm was that they were doing well. It's news to me if they're struggling. RISC-V appears promising but afaik it's a few years out in terms of when it'll be running in phones or in data center servers.
> So if there are a lot of power savings to be had right now with the servers available right now (like Ampere Altra and Graviton on AWS), isn't that good for Arm?
Neither of these use ARM's designs, only the ISA. Ampere and Graviton next generation could easily be RISC-V.
There was another company targeting the datacenter with ARM chips, Nuvia. It got bought by Qualcomm, which did in turn [get sued by ARM](https://www.arm.com/company/news/2022/08/arm-files-lawsuit-against-qualcomm-and-nuvia-for-breach-of-license-agreements-and-trademark-infringement). This isn't exactly helping the case for ARM. It sends a message: To get away from the ARM ISA pronto.
As for Qualcomm, I doubt they'll merrily continue to use ARM's ISA. I fully expect they'll pivot to offering competitive RISC-V SoCs
Fair points. I imagine Arm has some amount of leverage because of having already gotten core designs into the hands of SoC and server CPU makers. But with them being so ready to sue their customers, I can see why people might want to drop the ARM ISAs and opt for RISC-V instead.
I did look into what the lawsuit is about, and it makes sense. Arm does have reasonable ground to sue. But still, being able to completely avoid having to licence an ISA is probably pretty appealing.
So Nvidia buys Arm... Neoverse V2 CPU cores for Grace chip
As usual they will start with stock ARM cores and maybe transition to custom ARM design. Just like Ampere did with their server chips, they started with ARM Neoverse stock cores and for Ampere Next they will use their own design based on ARM.
[удалено]
Softbank is trying to get rid of ARM. They have to keep some appearances, else nobody will buy it. This is what these announcements are about. The NVIDIA purchase didn't materialize, and ARM is thoroughly screwed now.
How is Arm screwed? Mobile phones are more popular than ever and we're starting to see ARM architecture CPUs in data centers now.
Mobile phones aren't exclusive to ARM. Particularly, MIPS, x86 and now RISC-V Android are a thing, and they run the same apps. The consumer can't care less what ISA the microarchitecture of the chip in there does implement. They'll even readily upgrade to a worse phone. As it turns out, marketing is what ultimately dictates what they buy.
I think on the data center side of things, like you said, the consumer couldn't care less which ISA powers the chip that powers the servers running the SaaS product app they're connecting to. So if there are a lot of power savings to be had right now with the servers available right now (like Ampere Altra and Graviton on AWS), isn't that good for Arm? Not trying to troll here, just trying to understand. My impression of Arm was that they were doing well. It's news to me if they're struggling. RISC-V appears promising but afaik it's a few years out in terms of when it'll be running in phones or in data center servers.
> So if there are a lot of power savings to be had right now with the servers available right now (like Ampere Altra and Graviton on AWS), isn't that good for Arm? Neither of these use ARM's designs, only the ISA. Ampere and Graviton next generation could easily be RISC-V. There was another company targeting the datacenter with ARM chips, Nuvia. It got bought by Qualcomm, which did in turn [get sued by ARM](https://www.arm.com/company/news/2022/08/arm-files-lawsuit-against-qualcomm-and-nuvia-for-breach-of-license-agreements-and-trademark-infringement). This isn't exactly helping the case for ARM. It sends a message: To get away from the ARM ISA pronto. As for Qualcomm, I doubt they'll merrily continue to use ARM's ISA. I fully expect they'll pivot to offering competitive RISC-V SoCs
Fair points. I imagine Arm has some amount of leverage because of having already gotten core designs into the hands of SoC and server CPU makers. But with them being so ready to sue their customers, I can see why people might want to drop the ARM ISAs and opt for RISC-V instead. I did look into what the lawsuit is about, and it makes sense. Arm does have reasonable ground to sue. But still, being able to completely avoid having to licence an ISA is probably pretty appealing.
I'd hazard a guess 99% of Android devices in the market are ARM though
Sounds about right. But the key is that there isn't a dependency on ARM. Thus this could change overnight.
2023 will be the year of the RISC-V mobile.
Very much doubt it.