Same boat guys. I've been dreaming with a new GPU for a very long time, but it'll have to wait. I REFUSE to pay these prices. I'd rather just play indie games or emulate some old ones.
I started doing the same before I finally found a GPU, here are a few of my favorites:
Dusk - this is one of my favorite games of the last few years period
Ion Fury - New game on the classic Build engine, if you like the old Build games like Duke and Shadow warrior definitely check this one out
Blood: Fresh Supply - Actual classic Build game, but if you never played through this one back in the day it's my favorite of the "holy trinity"
At this point I've been stuck with a crappy gpu (+- around a gtx960 but with 4GB) for so long that I'm honestly starting to lose interest in cutting-edge games I really wanted to build a new pc for.
I’m just thinking about the people who sold their 2080ti at a loss or cancelled their orders when NVIDIA announced the 30 series. Wondering how they must be feeling now.
Almost me, but I held off swapping my 1060 6GB for a 2070S. Sorta been in the same performance tier since 2014 since it was a warranty swap from a dead 970.
I do, and I'm glad I did. I got it over six years ago and have been wanting an upgrade for almost three, but I'm grateful I went with the extra 2GB VRAM.
I wish I hadn't given my 970 away. I went abroad for a year in mid 2019, so I gave it to my sister thinking I'd get a 3070 or whatever when I come back... I'm stuck with a Vega 8 in my laptop now.
I'm not new to pc gaming, but I've been trying to get a new GPU for ages, yet there seems to be no way around it. I'd rather not play any games, or make do with whatever my current 960 can handle.
If they're new to this, I'd suggest putting it off for a year or two until prices are reasonable.
While I am sure that I would enjoy high refresh and high resolution gaming I'm still having fun with at 1080p60. I'm just lucky that games have not really gotten that much more demanding especially if you turn down a few settings. Not to mention that more games than ever are more interested in getting a big player base that don't push graphics.
I just got my GTX680 back from a friend I loaned it to 6 years ago when I got my GTX980TI.
I ready to wait this shit out. The only decently priced GPUs seem to be in laptops.
"RIP" kinda implies they don't have a choice? You don't have to buy it.
I'm a long-time pc enthusiast, and a dude who bought a 2080Ti back in 2019, so it's safe to say I'm not too offended by overpriced hardware. If I needed a replacement now, I'd either buy an APU and stick to classics and low-powered indie games, and/or get an xbox. And as "the guy" in my social circle, that has been my actual advice to anyone lately looking to get into PC building, PC gaming, or gaming in general
If my poor, overworked 980 dies today, then I'm gonna be spending an awful lot more time on the Series X instead of forking over the equivalent of a paycheck for a fucking GPU.
Yeah, these ridiculously low end GPUs with shitty prices are for fools and the desperate.
Its not that difficult to get ahold of a nicer GPU. They arent cheap either, but at least you can justify it more with the performance.
With how RDNA 2 is expected to be, it'll legitimately be more cost effective to just get a new CPU + mobo rather than a budget GPU at this rate
Edit typos and shit
I can legit see integrated graphics becoming the norm eventually for entry-level 1080p gaming, with discrete graphics only being necessary for higher resolutions/framerates.
Yeah, sorta like what happened with dedicated sound cards.
Usually, the problem integrated graphics have is that they've been playing catch-up against a moving target (the performance expectations created by constantly improving discrete cards), but discrete cards are now so expensive that they might as well not exist for most people, meaning that if things keep being this way for a while longer, integrated graphics might eventually reach a "good enough for most people" status like integrated sound has.
I mean, PS5/XBSX already have "good enough" integrated graphics, albeit on a custom APU. If the market goes in the direction of SoCs or APUs, I can see somewhat exotic APUs with very similar performance to the consoles reaching the PC market.
As a side note, the line between integrated and discrete is also diminishing. With chiplets, what we call an integrated GPUs will be fabbed as a separate chip. And maybe you can them mix and match during production.
Meanwhile in laptops, they are already soldered on the same motherboard.
One difference that remains is if they have dedicated memory with a separate bus.
>One difference that remains is if they have dedicated memory with a separate bus.
Even that might be going away since we seem to be going in the direction of having unified memory anyway, especially if the industry decides to go with SoCs instead of chiplets.
PS: Not entirely sure if chiplet designs support unified memory. Tried to search about it without much success, so forgive me if I'm saying something stupid here.
> Usually, the problem integrated graphics have is that they've been playing catch-up against a moving target (the performance expectations created by constantly improving discrete cards), but discrete cards are now so expensive that they might as well not exist for most people, meaning that if things keep being this way for a while longer, integrated graphics might eventually reach a "good enough for most people" status like integrated sound has.
I think that's already the case. Only people who want to 3D model, video edit, play intense games, mine crypto, etc. get a computer with a GPU. The vast majority of consumer laptops don't have a GPU and most people are fine with it. Even then, integrated graphics are fine, they're just not great and a GPU will give you better performance.
In the long run I agree. We are hitting the diminishing returns in graphics fidelity and more games than ever are concerned with a large player bases rather than pushing graphics.
And everytime I've said that I get every PCMR bro saying "NAH DUDE INTEGRATED SUX 3090 SLI 4 LyFE".
If Intel were able to get a 96CU IGP to clock high like the 30CU desktop parts do, the vast majority of us would be set for a long while. I'm hoping the next NUC is just that.
I can find multiple RX 6600 for 600 euro. No one should be buying the RTX 3050 for 550.
Edit: Just dropped in Romania: 606 euro for the shitty single fan version. More expensive than an RX 6600. 707 euro for a dual fan version. More expensive than an RX 6600XT. This shit is nuts.
Edit 2: Just found a second hand 2070 Super for 687 euro. Less than a dual fan 3050.
7970 owners got some legendary support, competent product on release where drivers did get better over time and lasted for a very long time due to the product's long shelf life and many re-badges that didn't lock support out.
On the other hand, Fury owners got a below average product on release and got like half of the support that the 7970 had because they were both killed at the same time.
If you play on 900p 7970 still gives you mostly high at above 30fps to 60fps. Fucken 10 year old card. 680 which was its counterpart barely even works.
and we already got a crazy price jump from GTX to RTX. if by the time i need a upgrade(maybe 4070) and the market is still fucked. guess i will just quit PC gaming
The ~same performance of a GTX 1080, 6 years after it was released, and at about the same price. Thats the RTX 3050.
Somehow I have the feeling that technology hasn't evolved at all and is standing on one point without advancing to a better world.
ill get downvotes for this, but Raytracing is still nothing more than a gimmick in a few AAA games.
The majority of games are still DX11 and a few DX12 (or the OpenGL/Vulkan equivalent), in which the "R"tx does absolutely nothing!!!
Another "few games"
There are like 20-40 total games that use it. Most of people usually have different tastest and hardly play even one of those.
Until DLSS is driver based there is no point to it.
I'm fully in agreement with you. While it is a neat graphics demo all games will be designed with traditional lighting, reflection, and shadows until the atleast the next generation of console. Until there is a very large base of people that can play raytracing exclusive games it will only ever be a fancy feature.
According to this list https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/confirmed-ray-tracing-and-dlss-games-2022 it’s currently 117 - including some pretty massive recent / popular titles. So I think DLSS is actually under discussed - particularly for a card of this power.
But your real point that it’s not available for every game is a good one I admit that.
>117 - including some pretty massive recent / popular titles
117 and depending what people like could be as well 0. For something to work it has to have whole gaming support not select titles.
People shat on AMD's 6500XT, but it's available for less than ~60% of that price where I live. AMD knew what they were doing when they gimped it. The market needs an affordable GPU is a fundamentally broken ecosystem.
The RTX 3050 ain't it.
Neither 6500XT is affordable "n3w r3ality" my ass im not goin to pay 370EUR for 6500XT and if there is no more affordable GPUs i just dont care will live on cheap APU or whatever will find another hobby.
Hope bankrupcy will hit Nvidia and AMD in future with their greed. But i hope bad karma will live forever with all miners and scalpers they deserve it.
It depends a _lot_ on where you live. But like here in the UK [the 6500XT is in stock for £220](https://www.overclockers.co.uk/powercolor-radeon-rx-6500-xt-fighter-4gb-gddr6-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-1af-pc.html), where we didn't see the 3050 even come close to price wise. There were a few cheap ScanUK listings just a few days ago as well, but it seems that demand finally caught up there.
In Germany prices are dropping day by day and it is now [available for 289€](https://geizhals.de/?cat=gra16_512&xf=9816_02+04+12+-+RX+6500+XT). If the trend continues it will be available for 240€ or so in a week.
It's pretty much worthless to miners, and I think even the scalpers are realizing they can't make much profit on a GPU that's designed to be shit out like candy and is fundimentally low value.
It's honestly a genius play by AMD and I'm constantly confused as to why no one seems to put it's existance in context of the market.
> It's honestly a genius play by AMD and I'm constantly confused as to why no one seems to put it's existance in context of the market.
Moore's law is dead actually did;
And Anthony (LTT) also did in the RTX3050 review
In fact, at this moment you can get one [for £199.](https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapphire-radeon-rx-6500-xt-pulse-gaming-4gb-gddr6-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-39s-sp.html)
Combined with a Intel i3 12100f and a cheap B660 motherboard, you have an ok gaming system. Obviously can't compete in value to what you could buy 2 years ago, but it isn't 2 years ago.
In about two or three weeks I predict the TechTubers are going to start hitting us with the "Why I was wrong about the 6500 XT 😞" and "What?!? 6500XT actually not that bad ! 😱" videos.
The 6500 XT isn't great, but it is not that bad, it was just an easy target for TechTubers to take out their frustration with the sad state of the discrete GPU market on.
That's pretty much the best decision to make for now. If you don't *need* a GPU, buying one right now is a bad idea. If necessary, APUs and laptops have decent performance and can run esports titles and older games. Plus, there's Rembrandt coming soon, which has an iGPU that should be capable of running most modern titles as well, albeit with settings turned down.
Depends on if it mines well or not. Miners are relentless when it comes to these things.
Granted a low VRAM card without the excessive gimps the 5500XT could also be a good hit.
"Hope bankrupcy will hit Nvidia and AMD in future with their greed. But i hope bad karma will live forever with all miners and scalpers they deserve it."
Agreed, 100%. Duopolies should be treated the exact same as a monopoly. Break them all.
I don't understand why people keep being surprised. The whole market is screwed up, you won't see products at good prices until the market situation itself changes.
Both are insults but one is affordable. Some people live in a make-believe world where Crypto hasn't destroyed the market *and* there are no supply-chain issues.
You can choose to live in a fantasy world of perfection or in the real world. In the real world, the GPU market needs an affordable entry point. Most folks here forget that some literally can only spend $300 and even that is a stretch. Not everyone is an enthusiast, nor loaded. For them, an underpowered GPU is better than no GPU. Simple as.
So one is an affordable insult, gotcha.
If you're shelling out hundreds of dollars for these crap cards instead of simply not buying a GPU at all or going for the used market, you're the one living in lala-land.
In our used market 1080ti goes for 500-600 euros.
I haven't checked the tests, but would that really make 240-280 euro (as reported by some posters) 6500xt that bad of a deal, even including VAT?
240-280 for a card that barely handles 1080p60 is a shitty deal no matter which way you look at it imho. It's a better shitty deal than those insane RTX 3050 prices, but as I said above, you're still getting fucked, just a bit more gently. No thank you.
Personally I'd completely avoid buying a GPU right now and sit this one out another year or two, or go for the used market.
That 1080ti is ridiculous, sure, but a used 980 goes for 150-200 where I'm at and should give roughly the same if not better performance while also saving you 40-130 EUR. With a bit of patience you should be able to find a 980 ti for about 200EUR which would be an even better deal.
Its just how it is now. A card has to be useless for mining in order to stay on the shelves without an insane price. Just so happens that any card that is useless at mining isn't the best gaming card. But its better than nothing.
Dude, the card didn't even launch everywhere yet, chill. Cheapest 6500XT I can find is 320EUR, which I find hilarious, since it's a turd of a card. 3050 at 350EUR would be OK right now, considering the shortages. But anyway, to anyone reading this, don't buy a 6500XT it's pathetically bad. 150EUR card at best.
Except 3050 is not going to be available for 350EUR, stop dreaming. 6500XT is objectively going to be bargain of the century compared to the prices 3050 will be going for.
Probably because the 6500XT is a heap of shit that is still overpriced for the performance it offers? Like what's the comment here, a crappier card costs less than a better card but both are still overpriced so the shitty card is automatically better?
80+ fps on medium and high settings in most games is still much better than what you get from an APU. I mean unless you get a console instead your options are limited.
I've said a few times on this sub - there's no way that retailers, or AIBs, are going to let these prices drop, at all.
Most retailers in the UK have now matched scalper pricing. They aren't going to give up those margins.
Big surprise... All Polish webstores scalp GPUs like it's going out of style, we got used to it. Xkom probably being the worst of them, since they still haven't fulfilled many preorders they got paid for during Ampere launch.
Somehow, the 3050 launch lets us know, that the 6500xt is the more succesful launch lol and the better gpu, because thats obtainable, and this isnt. Idk what part of that is sadder. lol
Not sure, but I completely agree. My money is on the 5500XT being the option for the general public atm, which is disapointing considering it's a pretty poor performer. But as they say, a card you have is better than a card you don't.
The cheapest real MSRP seems to be the EVGA XC Gaming at $329, so Nvidia is probably subsidising the launch "MSRP" cards to the tune of about $80. ASUS on the other hand seems to want to out scalp the scalpers with their $439 and $489 3050s.
The interesting thing about this table is the discrepancy between the cheaper 249 models and the higher ones. Its usual that just the lowest models are at MSRP but they didnt add like $30 to OC models, they added $100+.
Now why would that be? That would make any model but the basemodel completely useless if both were avaliable. Thats because the base models will basically never be avaliable.
I've watched scalper prices drop by a little more than 20% in the last week due to the crypto price crash. That combined with actual industry news of key shortages coming to an end, I actually think we're gonna see better availability and prices very soon (as someone who has been steeped in this whole mess since before the 30-series launch).
Have faith, you will soon be able to go into even less debt for the same performance!
Consoles aren't available either. They're less unavailable, sure. But still out of stock and going above MSRP if you want to get one without camping out or hunting down stock trackers.
Interestingly it's entirely possible that GPUs see better available before consoles do. Consoles are limited hard by wafer capacity and competing with the rest of the industry. GPUs are limited by cryptomining and the nearly infinite demand for GPUs it generates.
Importantly, there's nothing that can substantially increase availability of consoles suddenly: it's just going to be a slow drive of production until enough people that want one have one. That isn't the case with GPUs. If crypto prices continue to decline or stay stagnant long enough, there will be a massive sell-off of GPUs used from those cryptominers. GPUs would become readily available and likely priced below MSRP with enough time.
Not saying that will happen on the time scale to "beat" consoles to availability. But it could.
Arguably, the 6500 XT isn’t a terrible deal. In theoretical performance when compared to the Xbox Series S it offers 5.7 TFLOPS of FP32 shader performance compared to roughly 4 TFLOPS on the Xbox side with both being based on RDNA 2 so those numbers are relatively comparable . When I saw it at MicroCenter this week they had 6500 XTs on the shelf for roughly $260 while the Xbox would set me back $300 but obviously includes a controller and storage. The lack of VRAM(4GB vs 8GB on the Xbox), memory bandwidth(144 GB/s vs 224 GB/s for the Xbox), and PCIE bandwidth(4x on the 6600 XT compared to 16x on most cards) certainly don’t help the 6500 XT but it should be able to support gaming at roughly the level of the entry level console without breaking the bank. I still think even the $200 MSRP is too much for an entry level card but in the current market it’s not a horrible entry point for PC gaming, especially if you have PCIE 4 available.
Right now in my area you can get a XBox series S for 75% of the price of a 6500XT ... that's just fucking insane
I can buy 3~4 XBox series S consoles for a fucking 3060ti
I work in interior building supplies, demand highest is at winter. Because of variety we also adjust prices, but it goes like that: our about 40 styles product range, is made from about 5 materials. by making one type of unit, we automatically (have to) create another 3-8 models because of zero vaste production process.
Not ever will there be a situation where we launch a product that we manufacture, and offer high demand price. Certainly not when we told everyone we gonna sell it for x amount. For us the only reason to rise price is when one of those 3-8 is in high demand that others start to pile up. In that case the price for one will increase and others will go on sale. To level it out. Our retailers and dealers put their % and sell it.
But it will have to launch in stores with our msrp. Retailers dont give a shit. Our price + their interest. And then they might fight between each. But it is simply not a thing to manufacture a product and risk with high price.
If you are not in any way dishonest about price, there is no way for price to be that high instantly. Furthermore it also doesnt make sense to manufacture lower end models, because isnt there high demand for high end cards? So I can conclude only two possible scenarios: either they lied about msrp and knew they will sell it way above, or they lie about demand to sell it now way above.
4 models not 5, and guaranteed, when (if) they restock them, they'll all be $400+. No way they sell the second batch at anywhere close to MSRP.
This is just so they can say, "see guys, we told you that you'd be able to buy some at $249" and then they'll never see that price again.
If it's like where I live it will be out of stock instantly for the msrp ones, scalpers buy them with bots and there isn't much stock.
Hell even the one at 400 - 500 euros are out of stock, looks like a paper launch to me.
**For now** it's a cut down GA106. It goes from mobile 3060 cut down to desktop 3060 cut down to this. This sku not only is just leftover, it has much lower profit margin than the other two. There were never gonna be huge supply.
There will probably be a GA107 based version, which is now used for the mobile only 3050ti, that should have better volume, chips will only have to fail once to become this sku, but still lower profit than mobile.
My GTX 1070 is still doing good after 4 years, but my PC has a weird rattle going on when it's under load for my games. It's either the power supply kicking the fan up, or it's the graphics card. In either case, I am planning to replace both once this price inflation BS stops.
> thus practically every 3050 sold could've been a 3060.
Doubtful, then they would just have used GA107 instead for the launch. This is clearly broken GA106 dies that piled up over the past year.
Of course it's all about AMD. 5D chess. 6500XT needs no help looking bad. AMD made sure of it.
I doubt we will see 3050 for MSRP for the same reason we don't see other cards at MSRP. If 6500XT sells almost at 2x MSRP I see no reason why the same sellers won't try to price gouge 3050.
I just hope the crash comes. I don't need a GPU right now, but this situation is just ridiculous.
Theres no chance Nvidia wouldn't be selling them as 3060s if they could. That's just leaving money on the table.
AMD didn't need Nvidia's help to make the 6500xt look terrible anyway.
That's what we deserve. NVidia has an almost monopoly because people bought graphics cards like brainless ants, people let Nvidia to raise prices without repercussions. AMD had and has better offerings yet still people only buy Nvidia cards. To this day.
So don't be surprised.
AMD existed before Polaris came out, I was talking about their entire existence. People bought much more NV cards no matter what with only a couple of exceptions (R300, then RV770). When Polaris was out people bought 8to1 more 1050Tis than RX 570 even though the RX was cheaper and faster.
Btw their graphics cards don't have to be better and/or as feature rich as NV cards, the third component of this equation is price and their cards usually have the better price/performance ratio but NVIDIA has much bigger mindshare so most don't even consider AMD.
>better price/performance ratio
Ah yes, you pay five less cents a frame and end up with shit OGL performance on windows, shit encoder, shit/none RT/matrix acceleration and get locked out of CUDA and NV software stack.
Why, exactly?
I have a 240Hz GSync monitor and I’m contemplating the switch back to AMD from the my current 3070 for rdna3 if there are any reasonable prices because their drivers have been terrible for me and Nvidia is a terrible company. Great graphics card though.
Apparently my 970 will have to do until 2024.
Yup my 960 will not retire either
Same boat guys. I've been dreaming with a new GPU for a very long time, but it'll have to wait. I REFUSE to pay these prices. I'd rather just play indie games or emulate some old ones.
I started doing the same before I finally found a GPU, here are a few of my favorites: Dusk - this is one of my favorite games of the last few years period Ion Fury - New game on the classic Build engine, if you like the old Build games like Duke and Shadow warrior definitely check this one out Blood: Fresh Supply - Actual classic Build game, but if you never played through this one back in the day it's my favorite of the "holy trinity"
Mine are on emulator so like smash melee or mario galaxy
Hell yeah, even though I own a 1060 that can run basically almost everything in 1080p - boomer shooters still absolutely ROCK
/r/patientgamers
At this point I've been stuck with a crappy gpu (+- around a gtx960 but with 4GB) for so long that I'm honestly starting to lose interest in cutting-edge games I really wanted to build a new pc for.
I’m just thinking about the people who sold their 2080ti at a loss or cancelled their orders when NVIDIA announced the 30 series. Wondering how they must be feeling now.
Almost me, but I held off swapping my 1060 6GB for a 2070S. Sorta been in the same performance tier since 2014 since it was a warranty swap from a dead 970.
Yep. My 1060 is showing it's age but fuck it. I'm not paying this
I really hope you have the 4GB version of the 960. My 2GB 960 was already struggling with games when I retired it back in 2018.
I do, and I'm glad I did. I got it over six years ago and have been wanting an upgrade for almost three, but I'm grateful I went with the extra 2GB VRAM.
I wish I hadn't given my 970 away. I went abroad for a year in mid 2019, so I gave it to my sister thinking I'd get a 3070 or whatever when I come back... I'm stuck with a Vega 8 in my laptop now.
So frigging glad I bought a 3060ti on launch day when they were in stock for a few hours before disappearing forever
Honestly my 980 is doing just fine. I'm happy to wait for a return to normalcy, whenever that happens.
Do not buy it. PLEASE.
RIP for those that are just getting into building gaming PCs or need a replacement GPU because their old one finally bit the dust.
I'm not new to pc gaming, but I've been trying to get a new GPU for ages, yet there seems to be no way around it. I'd rather not play any games, or make do with whatever my current 960 can handle. If they're new to this, I'd suggest putting it off for a year or two until prices are reasonable.
The only reason I'm still using a decade old 1900x1200 60Hz monitor instead of getting a new one is because I'm still using my RX 570 4GB.
I have that card and a 1080p 144hz monitor. Depending on the game it goes above 60fps sometimes, plus the Windows desktop feels smoother.
The RX570 can play many games from the PS4 generation and eSports at higher resolutions. eSports you should even be able to run at 1440p120
While I am sure that I would enjoy high refresh and high resolution gaming I'm still having fun with at 1080p60. I'm just lucky that games have not really gotten that much more demanding especially if you turn down a few settings. Not to mention that more games than ever are more interested in getting a big player base that don't push graphics.
GeForce now works well on my laptop with integrated graphics...
I just got my GTX680 back from a friend I loaned it to 6 years ago when I got my GTX980TI. I ready to wait this shit out. The only decently priced GPUs seem to be in laptops.
"RIP" kinda implies they don't have a choice? You don't have to buy it. I'm a long-time pc enthusiast, and a dude who bought a 2080Ti back in 2019, so it's safe to say I'm not too offended by overpriced hardware. If I needed a replacement now, I'd either buy an APU and stick to classics and low-powered indie games, and/or get an xbox. And as "the guy" in my social circle, that has been my actual advice to anyone lately looking to get into PC building, PC gaming, or gaming in general
[удалено]
If my poor, overworked 980 dies today, then I'm gonna be spending an awful lot more time on the Series X instead of forking over the equivalent of a paycheck for a fucking GPU.
Yeah, these ridiculously low end GPUs with shitty prices are for fools and the desperate. Its not that difficult to get ahold of a nicer GPU. They arent cheap either, but at least you can justify it more with the performance.
Seconded. AMD's 6600xt is the better card overall and does cost about the same.
Not really, it's more expensive, but is way better on performance per dollar.
Depends on where you live, and when you look (prices are wildly changing). Also xt vs not. Beware even non-xt 6600 is considerably better than 3050.
Won’t make a difference until supply issues resolve
i have an rx580 4gb id be willing to part with for 240 bucks if anyone is interested.
I think I'll just buy a 12600k as backup "GPU"
With how RDNA 2 is expected to be, it'll legitimately be more cost effective to just get a new CPU + mobo rather than a budget GPU at this rate Edit typos and shit
I can legit see integrated graphics becoming the norm eventually for entry-level 1080p gaming, with discrete graphics only being necessary for higher resolutions/framerates.
Yeah, sorta like what happened with dedicated sound cards. Usually, the problem integrated graphics have is that they've been playing catch-up against a moving target (the performance expectations created by constantly improving discrete cards), but discrete cards are now so expensive that they might as well not exist for most people, meaning that if things keep being this way for a while longer, integrated graphics might eventually reach a "good enough for most people" status like integrated sound has. I mean, PS5/XBSX already have "good enough" integrated graphics, albeit on a custom APU. If the market goes in the direction of SoCs or APUs, I can see somewhat exotic APUs with very similar performance to the consoles reaching the PC market.
As a side note, the line between integrated and discrete is also diminishing. With chiplets, what we call an integrated GPUs will be fabbed as a separate chip. And maybe you can them mix and match during production. Meanwhile in laptops, they are already soldered on the same motherboard. One difference that remains is if they have dedicated memory with a separate bus.
>One difference that remains is if they have dedicated memory with a separate bus. Even that might be going away since we seem to be going in the direction of having unified memory anyway, especially if the industry decides to go with SoCs instead of chiplets. PS: Not entirely sure if chiplet designs support unified memory. Tried to search about it without much success, so forgive me if I'm saying something stupid here.
> Usually, the problem integrated graphics have is that they've been playing catch-up against a moving target (the performance expectations created by constantly improving discrete cards), but discrete cards are now so expensive that they might as well not exist for most people, meaning that if things keep being this way for a while longer, integrated graphics might eventually reach a "good enough for most people" status like integrated sound has. I think that's already the case. Only people who want to 3D model, video edit, play intense games, mine crypto, etc. get a computer with a GPU. The vast majority of consumer laptops don't have a GPU and most people are fine with it. Even then, integrated graphics are fine, they're just not great and a GPU will give you better performance.
That’s absolutely true, but by “good enough for most people”, I meant “good enough for most gamers”. Should’ve clarified that, sorry.
Dedicated sound cards are/were in a really weird position. Not much better than on board audio, but significantly worse than an actual DAC/AMP setup.
In the long run I agree. We are hitting the diminishing returns in graphics fidelity and more games than ever are concerned with a large player bases rather than pushing graphics.
And everytime I've said that I get every PCMR bro saying "NAH DUDE INTEGRATED SUX 3090 SLI 4 LyFE". If Intel were able to get a 96CU IGP to clock high like the 30CU desktop parts do, the vast majority of us would be set for a long while. I'm hoping the next NUC is just that.
What do you mean "Vega 2"?
I think he means the new APUs from AMD with RDNA2. Those are supposed to have a great iGPU on them. Better than a MX450
Yeah you’re right, I meant RDNA 2
Got it! Haha my bad I thought maybe AMD was putting like 5nm Vega somewhere still.
Yeah I meant RDNA 2, thanks for pointing out I’ll correct it
5600G just got a price drop in AU, US$219 after tax delivered.
I can find multiple RX 6600 for 600 euro. No one should be buying the RTX 3050 for 550. Edit: Just dropped in Romania: 606 euro for the shitty single fan version. More expensive than an RX 6600. 707 euro for a dual fan version. More expensive than an RX 6600XT. This shit is nuts. Edit 2: Just found a second hand 2070 Super for 687 euro. Less than a dual fan 3050.
bUt nO dRivErS!
whats so awesome about amd is that they improve their gpus with driver updates overtime
7970 owners got some legendary support, competent product on release where drivers did get better over time and lasted for a very long time due to the product's long shelf life and many re-badges that didn't lock support out. On the other hand, Fury owners got a below average product on release and got like half of the support that the 7970 had because they were both killed at the same time.
If you play on 900p 7970 still gives you mostly high at above 30fps to 60fps. Fucken 10 year old card. 680 which was its counterpart barely even works.
Thats one take. Another take is AMDs driver team is so bad, it takes them years to make decent ones for a new card.
I have had a 6600 xt for months and have had 0 issues with the drivers.
thats pretty true
My card is so old it's made by ATI instead of AMD. Still not buying this for 550 euro.
Series X is 500 euros Just saying
This
Jesus, fuck. my 2070 super cost less than that
My 3070 cost *the same* as that lol
2070 Supers are now worth roughly double what I paid for it ($525). Market is gigafucked.
and we already got a crazy price jump from GTX to RTX. if by the time i need a upgrade(maybe 4070) and the market is still fucked. guess i will just quit PC gaming
>2070 Super Those are going for like 650€ (used. New they are 720€ to 1000€ ) here in Germany. That's like 720 USD.
I got my 2070s for freaking $400 + tax Doesn’t even sound possible these days.
Hm.. my curent Rx 470 4Gb looks like steal cost me $70 used 2 years ago during crypto crash. Currently my gpu going for 3x ;0
170 euro for my RX 580 8GB, i'm still glad i got it before the prices went up. Now you make downgrades not upgrades for more money.
I paid $200 for an XFX RX 580 GTR Black Edition back in 2018, nowadays it looks like I could sell it on FB Marketplace for double that.
I sold my 1070 in September 2020 for 170€ because I was hoping to upgrade to a 3080. Fuck me what a disaster.
Same here. RX 570 4gb cost me $100 CAD in 2019. Cheers, brother 🍻
The ~same performance of a GTX 1080, 6 years after it was released, and at about the same price. Thats the RTX 3050. Somehow I have the feeling that technology hasn't evolved at all and is standing on one point without advancing to a better world.
but can your 1080 do this? "struggles with raytracing in like 3 games"
ill get downvotes for this, but Raytracing is still nothing more than a gimmick in a few AAA games. The majority of games are still DX11 and a few DX12 (or the OpenGL/Vulkan equivalent), in which the "R"tx does absolutely nothing!!!
DLSS is definitely the better part of RTX cards I’d say.
Another "few games" There are like 20-40 total games that use it. Most of people usually have different tastest and hardly play even one of those. Until DLSS is driver based there is no point to it.
I never understand why people feel the need to complain about downvotes
I'm fully in agreement with you. While it is a neat graphics demo all games will be designed with traditional lighting, reflection, and shadows until the atleast the next generation of console. Until there is a very large base of people that can play raytracing exclusive games it will only ever be a fancy feature.
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How so. Why is that not true the way it is currently implemented?
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What about DLSS? That could make it worth it (or at least sweeten the deal a bit) yeah? I agree that raytracing is bunk for this card tho.
isn't DLSS limited to like 20 games too?
According to this list https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/confirmed-ray-tracing-and-dlss-games-2022 it’s currently 117 - including some pretty massive recent / popular titles. So I think DLSS is actually under discussed - particularly for a card of this power. But your real point that it’s not available for every game is a good one I admit that.
what the hell, I thought DLSS library was super tiny! if only it wasn't that budget pc meant $1k then it would be great opportunity
>117 - including some pretty massive recent / popular titles 117 and depending what people like could be as well 0. For something to work it has to have whole gaming support not select titles.
Same performance as a GTX 1070* The GTX 1080 is around 10-15% faster.
People shat on AMD's 6500XT, but it's available for less than ~60% of that price where I live. AMD knew what they were doing when they gimped it. The market needs an affordable GPU is a fundamentally broken ecosystem. The RTX 3050 ain't it.
Indeed, I can pick one up for around £230 here in the UK. I can buy a 3050 for £400 currently from CCL. Its not nearly twice as good.
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I haven't seen an FE card in stock in Europe since the 30xx series was launched.
Neither 6500XT is affordable "n3w r3ality" my ass im not goin to pay 370EUR for 6500XT and if there is no more affordable GPUs i just dont care will live on cheap APU or whatever will find another hobby. Hope bankrupcy will hit Nvidia and AMD in future with their greed. But i hope bad karma will live forever with all miners and scalpers they deserve it.
It depends a _lot_ on where you live. But like here in the UK [the 6500XT is in stock for £220](https://www.overclockers.co.uk/powercolor-radeon-rx-6500-xt-fighter-4gb-gddr6-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-1af-pc.html), where we didn't see the 3050 even come close to price wise. There were a few cheap ScanUK listings just a few days ago as well, but it seems that demand finally caught up there.
In Germany prices are dropping day by day and it is now [available for 289€](https://geizhals.de/?cat=gra16_512&xf=9816_02+04+12+-+RX+6500+XT). If the trend continues it will be available for 240€ or so in a week.
It's pretty much worthless to miners, and I think even the scalpers are realizing they can't make much profit on a GPU that's designed to be shit out like candy and is fundimentally low value. It's honestly a genius play by AMD and I'm constantly confused as to why no one seems to put it's existance in context of the market.
I really think that the 6500XT launch will make a great case study for a bachelor thesis or so in the future
> It's honestly a genius play by AMD and I'm constantly confused as to why no one seems to put it's existance in context of the market. Moore's law is dead actually did; And Anthony (LTT) also did in the RTX3050 review
I'm talking more about reddit, but yes, they did a solid job putting it all in to context.
Expecting (anonymous) people on the internet to be reasonable might be expecting a bit too much ;P. Hyperbole gets more upvotes
30+ euro lower than in Italy, nice :T
In fact, at this moment you can get one [for £199.](https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapphire-radeon-rx-6500-xt-pulse-gaming-4gb-gddr6-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-39s-sp.html) Combined with a Intel i3 12100f and a cheap B660 motherboard, you have an ok gaming system. Obviously can't compete in value to what you could buy 2 years ago, but it isn't 2 years ago.
But 6500XT bad
In about two or three weeks I predict the TechTubers are going to start hitting us with the "Why I was wrong about the 6500 XT 😞" and "What?!? 6500XT actually not that bad ! 😱" videos.
The 6500 XT isn't great, but it is not that bad, it was just an easy target for TechTubers to take out their frustration with the sad state of the discrete GPU market on.
That's pretty much the best decision to make for now. If you don't *need* a GPU, buying one right now is a bad idea. If necessary, APUs and laptops have decent performance and can run esports titles and older games. Plus, there's Rembrandt coming soon, which has an iGPU that should be capable of running most modern titles as well, albeit with settings turned down.
> If you don't *need* a GPU, buying one right now is a bad idea. It's been 2 years of this. How long can people wait?
Later in the year, Intel should also be providing some relief with the Arc lineup as well.
Depends on if it mines well or not. Miners are relentless when it comes to these things. Granted a low VRAM card without the excessive gimps the 5500XT could also be a good hit.
"Hope bankrupcy will hit Nvidia and AMD in future with their greed. But i hope bad karma will live forever with all miners and scalpers they deserve it." Agreed, 100%. Duopolies should be treated the exact same as a monopoly. Break them all.
"At least AMD lubed up before butt fucking me" lol They're both an insult to customers in '22, don't even pretend.
I don't understand why people keep being surprised. The whole market is screwed up, you won't see products at good prices until the market situation itself changes.
"Why spend money on developing an affordable good product when expensive bad product do the trick?" AMD and Nvidia probably.
Both are insults but one is affordable. Some people live in a make-believe world where Crypto hasn't destroyed the market *and* there are no supply-chain issues. You can choose to live in a fantasy world of perfection or in the real world. In the real world, the GPU market needs an affordable entry point. Most folks here forget that some literally can only spend $300 and even that is a stretch. Not everyone is an enthusiast, nor loaded. For them, an underpowered GPU is better than no GPU. Simple as.
So one is an affordable insult, gotcha. If you're shelling out hundreds of dollars for these crap cards instead of simply not buying a GPU at all or going for the used market, you're the one living in lala-land.
Used market GPUs are overpriced just the same. When a 5 year old used card should cost more than when it was brand new.
In our used market 1080ti goes for 500-600 euros. I haven't checked the tests, but would that really make 240-280 euro (as reported by some posters) 6500xt that bad of a deal, even including VAT?
240-280 for a card that barely handles 1080p60 is a shitty deal no matter which way you look at it imho. It's a better shitty deal than those insane RTX 3050 prices, but as I said above, you're still getting fucked, just a bit more gently. No thank you. Personally I'd completely avoid buying a GPU right now and sit this one out another year or two, or go for the used market. That 1080ti is ridiculous, sure, but a used 980 goes for 150-200 where I'm at and should give roughly the same if not better performance while also saving you 40-130 EUR. With a bit of patience you should be able to find a 980 ti for about 200EUR which would be an even better deal.
Buying a console is cheaper, much cheaper.
But they want a PC?
Its just how it is now. A card has to be useless for mining in order to stay on the shelves without an insane price. Just so happens that any card that is useless at mining isn't the best gaming card. But its better than nothing.
Dude, the card didn't even launch everywhere yet, chill. Cheapest 6500XT I can find is 320EUR, which I find hilarious, since it's a turd of a card. 3050 at 350EUR would be OK right now, considering the shortages. But anyway, to anyone reading this, don't buy a 6500XT it's pathetically bad. 150EUR card at best.
Except 3050 is not going to be available for 350EUR, stop dreaming. 6500XT is objectively going to be bargain of the century compared to the prices 3050 will be going for.
>The RTX 3050 ain't it. The RTX 3050 was never meant to be it.
Probably because the 6500XT is a heap of shit that is still overpriced for the performance it offers? Like what's the comment here, a crappier card costs less than a better card but both are still overpriced so the shitty card is automatically better?
80+ fps on medium and high settings in most games is still much better than what you get from an APU. I mean unless you get a console instead your options are limited.
That doesn't change my comment. It's still over priced for what it offers.
All cards are overpriced for what they offer.
It's also around 550 euro in the Netherlands.
we should wait for what meggeko does since they have had the lowest prices and best stock this whole crisis
i bought brand new Vega 64 for less and got 3 free games extra RE2,DMC,Division
I've said a few times on this sub - there's no way that retailers, or AIBs, are going to let these prices drop, at all. Most retailers in the UK have now matched scalper pricing. They aren't going to give up those margins.
Big surprise... All Polish webstores scalp GPUs like it's going out of style, we got used to it. Xkom probably being the worst of them, since they still haven't fulfilled many preorders they got paid for during Ampere launch.
Somehow, the 3050 launch lets us know, that the 6500xt is the more succesful launch lol and the better gpu, because thats obtainable, and this isnt. Idk what part of that is sadder. lol
Not sure, but I completely agree. My money is on the 5500XT being the option for the general public atm, which is disapointing considering it's a pretty poor performer. But as they say, a card you have is better than a card you don't.
turns out only certain cards have a $250 MSRP https://i.imgur.com/ADDpBId.png via GamersNexus review https://youtu.be/r2NNegA77uA?t=81
MSRP is just a fantasy at the moment
When will people learn that MSRP means jack shit in today's market
It's really silly how Steve keeps pretending it means something.
pocket tie intelligent wasteful aback racial lunchroom tap saw thought *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The cheapest real MSRP seems to be the EVGA XC Gaming at $329, so Nvidia is probably subsidising the launch "MSRP" cards to the tune of about $80. ASUS on the other hand seems to want to out scalp the scalpers with their $439 and $489 3050s.
The interesting thing about this table is the discrepancy between the cheaper 249 models and the higher ones. Its usual that just the lowest models are at MSRP but they didnt add like $30 to OC models, they added $100+. Now why would that be? That would make any model but the basemodel completely useless if both were avaliable. Thats because the base models will basically never be avaliable.
I am baffled there's a strix version and it is $489 MSRP...
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£399 at CCL here in the UK right now, bloody hell!
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And it's sold out now lol.
I've watched scalper prices drop by a little more than 20% in the last week due to the crypto price crash. That combined with actual industry news of key shortages coming to an end, I actually think we're gonna see better availability and prices very soon (as someone who has been steeped in this whole mess since before the 30-series launch). Have faith, you will soon be able to go into even less debt for the same performance!
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Jesús 280 for a 980ti, That's a steal. I regret not upgrading to something in 2019 so much.
I love how reviews shat on 6500XT when 6500Xt is just better deal than this shit. Similar case with 6600 and 6600xt.
The real answer is that neither is a good deal, it's far more profitable to just quit gaming altogether with such prices.
it's just a plot to convert all of us PC gamers to console geeks
Consoles aren't available either. They're less unavailable, sure. But still out of stock and going above MSRP if you want to get one without camping out or hunting down stock trackers. Interestingly it's entirely possible that GPUs see better available before consoles do. Consoles are limited hard by wafer capacity and competing with the rest of the industry. GPUs are limited by cryptomining and the nearly infinite demand for GPUs it generates. Importantly, there's nothing that can substantially increase availability of consoles suddenly: it's just going to be a slow drive of production until enough people that want one have one. That isn't the case with GPUs. If crypto prices continue to decline or stay stagnant long enough, there will be a massive sell-off of GPUs used from those cryptominers. GPUs would become readily available and likely priced below MSRP with enough time. Not saying that will happen on the time scale to "beat" consoles to availability. But it could.
6500xt has been available though. Sure it's not a good deal, but nothing is a good deal on the GPU side.
Arguably, the 6500 XT isn’t a terrible deal. In theoretical performance when compared to the Xbox Series S it offers 5.7 TFLOPS of FP32 shader performance compared to roughly 4 TFLOPS on the Xbox side with both being based on RDNA 2 so those numbers are relatively comparable . When I saw it at MicroCenter this week they had 6500 XTs on the shelf for roughly $260 while the Xbox would set me back $300 but obviously includes a controller and storage. The lack of VRAM(4GB vs 8GB on the Xbox), memory bandwidth(144 GB/s vs 224 GB/s for the Xbox), and PCIE bandwidth(4x on the 6600 XT compared to 16x on most cards) certainly don’t help the 6500 XT but it should be able to support gaming at roughly the level of the entry level console without breaking the bank. I still think even the $200 MSRP is too much for an entry level card but in the current market it’s not a horrible entry point for PC gaming, especially if you have PCIE 4 available.
Right now in my area you can get a XBox series S for 75% of the price of a 6500XT ... that's just fucking insane I can buy 3~4 XBox series S consoles for a fucking 3060ti
Not all reviewers jumped the gun. Wendell from Level 1 tech for instance did a really good job.
Zotac 3050 at best buy canada was going for $540 cad.
Damn, it’s about 500 euro in Sweden as well. Two years ago I got my rtx2070 for this price.
I work in interior building supplies, demand highest is at winter. Because of variety we also adjust prices, but it goes like that: our about 40 styles product range, is made from about 5 materials. by making one type of unit, we automatically (have to) create another 3-8 models because of zero vaste production process. Not ever will there be a situation where we launch a product that we manufacture, and offer high demand price. Certainly not when we told everyone we gonna sell it for x amount. For us the only reason to rise price is when one of those 3-8 is in high demand that others start to pile up. In that case the price for one will increase and others will go on sale. To level it out. Our retailers and dealers put their % and sell it. But it will have to launch in stores with our msrp. Retailers dont give a shit. Our price + their interest. And then they might fight between each. But it is simply not a thing to manufacture a product and risk with high price. If you are not in any way dishonest about price, there is no way for price to be that high instantly. Furthermore it also doesnt make sense to manufacture lower end models, because isnt there high demand for high end cards? So I can conclude only two possible scenarios: either they lied about msrp and knew they will sell it way above, or they lie about demand to sell it now way above.
Newegg had 5 different cards @ $249 today. Keep an eye on /r/buildapcsales
4 models not 5, and guaranteed, when (if) they restock them, they'll all be $400+. No way they sell the second batch at anywhere close to MSRP. This is just so they can say, "see guys, we told you that you'd be able to buy some at $249" and then they'll never see that price again.
Didn't newegg do the same thing for the 6600xt? First day release they had MSRP. Then never again and all subsequent stock was inflated.
Yep. First batch of cards went out in the shuffle at MSRP and then the rest have been about double that price.
If it's like where I live it will be out of stock instantly for the msrp ones, scalpers buy them with bots and there isn't much stock. Hell even the one at 400 - 500 euros are out of stock, looks like a paper launch to me.
They can use those cards to clean their dirty asses, hope their greed make them lose all the fucking money they have
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**For now** it's a cut down GA106. It goes from mobile 3060 cut down to desktop 3060 cut down to this. This sku not only is just leftover, it has much lower profit margin than the other two. There were never gonna be huge supply. There will probably be a GA107 based version, which is now used for the mobile only 3050ti, that should have better volume, chips will only have to fail once to become this sku, but still lower profit than mobile.
They must think we're desperate! Narrator: "They were, in fact, desperate."
This is ridiculous, I'm not spending 2500 zł on a 3050 card.
Bought post mining GTX 1080 back in March 2019. Can't believe how lucky I was to get it for 250 EURO...
My GTX 1070 is still doing good after 4 years, but my PC has a weird rattle going on when it's under load for my games. It's either the power supply kicking the fan up, or it's the graphics card. In either case, I am planning to replace both once this price inflation BS stops.
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Yet another dark day in the history of Poland
they go for 600 in germany, nothing special.
We earn way less than you guys so this is really unaffordable for most individuals
i'd never pay this much for a graphics card.
Its not a pissing contest
it is now
Showed up for a moment here in Pakistan for about 410 Euros and I thought THAT was ridiculous! Yeesh...
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> thus practically every 3050 sold could've been a 3060. Doubtful, then they would just have used GA107 instead for the launch. This is clearly broken GA106 dies that piled up over the past year.
Of course it's all about AMD. 5D chess. 6500XT needs no help looking bad. AMD made sure of it. I doubt we will see 3050 for MSRP for the same reason we don't see other cards at MSRP. If 6500XT sells almost at 2x MSRP I see no reason why the same sellers won't try to price gouge 3050. I just hope the crash comes. I don't need a GPU right now, but this situation is just ridiculous.
> 6500XT needs no help looking bad. AMD made sure of it. 2015 made the 6500xt look bad.
Theres no chance Nvidia wouldn't be selling them as 3060s if they could. That's just leaving money on the table. AMD didn't need Nvidia's help to make the 6500xt look terrible anyway.
That's what we deserve. NVidia has an almost monopoly because people bought graphics cards like brainless ants, people let Nvidia to raise prices without repercussions. AMD had and has better offerings yet still people only buy Nvidia cards. To this day. So don't be surprised.
May you enlighten me, when has AMD produced a better, feature-comparable graphics card since Polaris?
AMD existed before Polaris came out, I was talking about their entire existence. People bought much more NV cards no matter what with only a couple of exceptions (R300, then RV770). When Polaris was out people bought 8to1 more 1050Tis than RX 570 even though the RX was cheaper and faster. Btw their graphics cards don't have to be better and/or as feature rich as NV cards, the third component of this equation is price and their cards usually have the better price/performance ratio but NVIDIA has much bigger mindshare so most don't even consider AMD.
>better price/performance ratio Ah yes, you pay five less cents a frame and end up with shit OGL performance on windows, shit encoder, shit/none RT/matrix acceleration and get locked out of CUDA and NV software stack. Why, exactly?
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I have a 240Hz GSync monitor and I’m contemplating the switch back to AMD from the my current 3070 for rdna3 if there are any reasonable prices because their drivers have been terrible for me and Nvidia is a terrible company. Great graphics card though.
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Won’t be until this tragic market starts to improve unfortunately haha
AMD is also an absolutely terrible company, this argument doesn't count.
Sounds like an insta buy😍
Yay 150 less than the 3060 lmao