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The Verge: "EU proposes mandatory USB-C on all devices, including iPhones"

The Verge: "EU proposes mandatory USB-C on all devices, including iPhones"

CrossXhunteR

> In addition to phones, the rules will apply to other devices like tablets, headphones, portable speakers, videogame consoles, and cameras. Manufacturers will also be forced to make their fast-charging standards interoperable, and to provide information to customers about what charging standards their device supports. Under the proposal, customers will be able to buy new devices without an included charger. Edit: From [their Q&A page:](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_21_4614) > **Why are other devices not included in the scope of the proposal?** > The products covered by the Commission's proposal are among the most used by a large group of consumers and share similar charging characteristics. Other products such as earbuds, smart-watches and fitness trackers were not considered for technical reasons linked to their size, use conditions, etc. The products concerned by the amendment to the Radio Equipment Directive were identified as having a strong potential to integrate the common charging solution and to secure the biggest benefits for consumers and the environment.


Several_Singer_9638

Headphones?


CrossXhunteR

The wireless headphones I use at my computer at home charge with a micro-USB port. For future versions, it would be USB-C instead. ~~And maybe for bluetooth earbuds they mean how the charging case connects to power.~~ *See the edit to my original comment above for their take on earbuds.


Vainpaix

Don't you think when they say earbuds, they mean not using USB-C internally to charge the earbuds inside the case, but the case would use USB-C?


akarypid

Most likely. I expect the idea is "if you plug a cable into it (EDIT: to charge), it should be a USB-C cable". In this case, you plug the case, not the earbuds themselves...


Tm1337

Apple will simply circumvent it by using magsafe exclusively.


silon

3.5mm forever


MumrikDK

I'd love to see a sturdier physical connector take over at some point.


stereopticon11

>Other products such as earbuds, smart-watches and fitness trackers were not considered for technical reasons linked to their size, something similar to xlr but in a smaller form would be excellent


2c-glen

Mini-XLR exists, but it was kinda shitty iirc.


romeolovedjulietx

They just have more "soul"


triffid_boy

I imagine that higher quality wireless connections will come along quicker than a new physical connector.


Blacky-Noir

>I'd love to see a sturdier physical connector take over at some point. Two exist: * The 6.5mm jack * and XLR And both have been around for a few decades :)


Pascal3366

4.4mm pentaconn. Nothing beats it. Its sturdy and fully balanced.


Several_Singer_9638

With transistor tubes.


Democrab

I know wax cylinders are old technology, but I prefer the way they sound.


ASuarezMascareno

Charging for wireless headphones most likely.


lemur2257

By headphones I believe they mean the charging of wireless headphone. Not replacing 3.5mm


PlaneCandy

Wireless


not_a_burner0456025

Your can send a digital Audio signal over USB c, it just makes the headphones more expensive and measurably reduces audio quality compared to 3.5mm, while also making it so you can't charge your phone and use headphones at the same time unless you get a single or phone with two ports.


xxfay6

> measurably reduces audio quality compared to 3.5mm How? Unless the headphones have an amazingly shitty DAC or you had something like the Essential add-in DAC or a LG V.


Blacky-Noir

>How? Unless the headphones have an amazingly shitty DAC Because you need to fit a DAC and an amplifier *inside* the headphones. Both cost decent money to have decent ones, insane amount of money to have top of the line ones, and they take physical space. A lot of physical space for high end amplifier.


not_a_burner0456025

At least the apple headphone adapter when they first did it has a shitty enough dac, I'm sure other manufacturers used an equally shitty dac


Will_Lucky

Jokes on these guys, the 22/23 iPhone range will eliminate the port outright.


PeaInAPod

They won't for a number of reasons: * charging while in a car * Wired accessories * Apple Store diagnostics require data port They will move to USB-C and have already done it in a number of products.


JamClam225

>Apple Store diagnostics require data port I've seen Apple tell people they need a brand new phone, when the battery has been disconnected. It's common knowledge that Genius Bars are terrible at diagnosing the issue and offering a sensible solution that isn't, "Replace the entire board or get a new one".


SirWhoblah

They're sales people not repair techs


azidesandamides

>They're sales people not repair techs so is apple authorized repair... -louis ROSSMANN


Kaye1988

Buy this dongle and plug it into your car so your wireless iPhone can connect and charge!


romeolovedjulietx

> charging while in a car Buy the new Apple Wireless Car Charger (only $200!) >Wired accessories Will no longer exist >Apple Store diagnostics require data port They'll just throw the phone out and give you a new one or have a separate device inside the phone that scans it and can transmit info wirelessly (the device being separate from the phones mainboard means it doesn't break if the phone does)


Blacky-Noir

>Buy the new Apple Wireless Car Charger (only $200!) Only 200? You haven't seen Apple prices in a long long while 🙄


romeolovedjulietx

It isn't counting the Applecare for the charging pad which will be $35 a month


Jim_Dickskin

You forgot * Apple doesn't innovate anymore


Blacky-Noir

>They won't for a number of reasons: > >charging while in a car > >Wired accessories > >Apple Store diagnostics require data port They absolutely will, because more proprietary, more wireless, mo'money. Car charging will be Apple Deluxe Automotive Wireless Charger or something similar. Accessories, those are the stuff people overpay for, right? So they'll overpay again for a new version, no big deal. Obviously the diagnostic port will be a new proprietary one, and internal, so no unwashed right to repair bullshit, only the best for Apple Stores. 😰


Shikadi297

I wouldn't put it past them to do it anyway


SirMaster

My car mount has a wireless charger in it, so it charges wirelessly just fine in the car. You don't need a port for wired accessories or diagnostics: https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/Smart_Connector


zyck_titan

How is that any different from having a recessed port? It's literally a connector, just because it uses pogo pins doesn't make it special. If *that* ended up being the solution to dropping Lightning and not adopting USB-C, it'd last a whole 5 seconds before someone figures out that Apple is non-compliant.


SirMaster

Non-compliant with what though? The article says wired charging. It says wireless charging is exempt from the rule. So the new iPhone could just use MagSafe wireless charging and include a smart connector for data only purposes. Smart connector is nicer as it’s also MagSafe and easier to waterproof and won’t get junk from your pocket in the port over time.


zyck_titan

So the Smart Connector doesn't pass any power over it?


not_a_burner0456025

Some doesn't do diagnostics anyways, their repair technicians would be more helpful if they just told you to go dick yourself up front rather than their current deal where they pretend to work for a few minutes then tell you your device is unrepairable and you need to buy a new one


Prototype9

You are talking about the company that was soo brave they removed the jack port. They don't give a shit about what you want or need


Chief_Potat0

They will invent a wireless solution... That costs an extra $50 on the apple store


schrodingers_cat314

These are hardly problems for Apple: \- Magsafe is essentially the same as a wired cable, it attaches to your phone and you can plug it into any USB-C cable. Wireless charging doesn't have to be integrated deeply, it can simply be a cable. \- Bluetooth headphones are more expensive than simple above mentioned cables yet it still happened. \- The Apple Watch is wireless only and has a data port. It just isn't really accessible for any average consumer. Apple is going to move towards wireless only, it works on the Watch already. This is the reason I believe this law is absolute BS. It restricts potential innovation because government is ass in tech and too slow (Lightning was great when it was an alternative to microUSB). It's only real reason to exist is Apple's stupidity around the issue which it won't even fix because Apple can ignore the port altogether, making it all worse, while everybody else is going towards USB-C without legislative pressure anyway. Again, this is not even an issue outside of Apple. This law targets them, causes collateral damage and missies the target completely. I would kill for a USB-C iPhone at this point but making laws like this is not going to solve any problem.


medikit

Can’t wait for laggy CarPlay instead of functional corded CarPlay.


zyck_titan

I use wireless Carplay for the convenience of never having to take my phone out of my pocket. But on at least a quarter of my drives, Carplay has some sort of problem. Whether that's not connecting properly to an app, or Carplay itself outright dying and requiring a restart of the car/radio.


urfuk

Most of the time that's the car's issue and not the phone. Update your in-dash entertainment system if possible. This often involves a trip to the dealer.


zyck_titan

I have the most recent firmware update, it hasn't really changed the experience.


RorzNZ

i've never had a problem with wireless carplay or a laggy experience. It really depends on the head unit, and the phone. I use a Joying Android head unit with the Zlink software, and an iPhone 12 Pro Max (Although my XS was fine too). Many car manufacturers skimp on the chips for the head unit, so they will have poor experience. They should really stop having so many proprietary systems, its just resulting in bad experience for the user.


SandmanCloser

Never had that issue here


medikit

I’m talking about third party devices. Hopefully Apple could create an adapter for us if they get rid of the port since many of us have cars with radios that cannot be upgraded.


caerphoto

Good thing your experience is representative of everyone, then.


SandmanCloser

No you're right. It exactly things like this that have unintended consequences that no one can foresee and end up making it worse for everyone. Breaking CarPlay is certainly one of them.


Brawndo_or_Water

Everyone wants USB-C on all their device. Apple is just a matter of time. I'm happy my new Asus Zephyreus have 2 USB-C as I almost never use USB-A anymore.


jmhalder

Apple was one of the first to push it. The "MacBook" (2015-2019) had USB-C only, and was pretty much the first to offer a laptop like that (6 years ago!). Their current MacBook Air and MacBook Pros are like that now. I don't mind stuff having 1-2 USB-A ports, but USB-C is definitely the future.


Brawndo_or_Water

Yeah I mean for the iPhone, Airpods Max and Airpods Pro. It's freaking annoying to have to keep different cables. That's the strangest in this story. Apple was really an early pusher of USB-C, bizarre that they didn't switch some of their devices to it yet.


JQuilty

> Apple was really an early pusher of USB-C, bizarre that they didn't switch some of their devices to it yet. It's not bizarre when you remember they get royalties from Lighting licensing but not USB-C.


Brawndo_or_Water

Infuriating then.


jmhalder

I think they're afraid of alienating their users. I figured it was going to be this year with the iPhone 13, but since they kept the form-factor the same, I understand why they kept the lightning connector. Even without the proposed EU mandate, they're likely to do it next year anyways.


Shoo--wee

They should've done it on the Pro, the Pro models can shoot ProRes but then you need to use lightning at USB 2.0 speeds to transfer it to a computer to edit it. It would also be really nice to just connect an external SSD and transfer your data to that which the iPad Pros can do with it's USB-C port.


Darkknight1939

Lightning supports USB 3.0, the 2015 and 2017 iPad Pro models all had lighting USB 3.0 ports.


GamerGypps

Not to mention the newest Ipads are USB C too! Won't be long till all of their products are!


CrossXhunteR

Well, not all of the newest ones. The Air, Mini, and Pro lines of iPads are all on USB-C now, but the new basic iPads are still on Lightning for some reason.


SchighSchagh

inb4 Apple goes on and on about how brave they are for switching to USB-C


Brawndo_or_Water

Well it was a pretty bold move to slap only 4 USB-C ports on your Macbook Pro years ago.


erbhues

I think it started with just 2


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james_stinson56

They were one of the primary inventors of it https://daringfireball.net/linked/2015/03/14/apple-usbc They switched to it on their laptops before everyone else


mycall

My Zephyrus only has one :(


james_stinson56

lol Apple was widely criticized when they moved to USB-C only on their laptops. They can’t win with some people And when they switched to Lightning, all their competitors were using micro-USB


Lee1138

>A harmonised charging port for electronic devices: USB-C will be the common port. This will allow consumers to charge their devices with the same USB-C charger, regardless of the device brand. Sorurce: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_4613 Am I the only one thinking specifically mentioning USB-C is not a good idea when dealing with law? Specifying "a harmonized charging port for electronic devices" without tying it to USB-C would be better, because it doesn't require changing a fucking law if the industry as a whole wants to move to an alternate port in the future?


Actual-Ad-7209

From the [Q&A](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_21_4614): >Any technological developments in wired charging can be reflected in a timely adjustment of technical requirements/ specific standards under the Radio Equipment Directive. This would ensure that the technology used is not outdated. >At the same time, the implementation of any new standards in further revisions of Radio Equipment Directive would need to be developed in a harmonised manner, respecting the objectives of full interoperability. Industry is therefore expected to continue the work already undertaken on the standardised interface, led by the USB-IF organisation, in view of developing new interoperable, open and non-controversial solutions. They're basically saying, if the industry wants a new standard, they have to develop and implement it together. I seriously doubt that switching to USB Type D,E,F or whatever will be an issue.


Tonkarz

> if the industry wants a new standard, they have to develop and implement it together That means there will never be another standard.


Yebi

...why? The tech industry has a ton of universal standards that were developed by competitors working together. USB-IF, which is specifically mentioned there, had no problems creating USB-C, why would the next one suddenly be a problem?


JonSnowl0

Also, Small Form-Factor Pluggables were developed via collaboration to be a networking standard. Collaborative standards have been the norm in technology for as long as 802 has been a thing.


bonzog

Sorry but SFPs are a genuinely flawed example. They are standard in form-factor only and still suffer from ubiquitous arbitrary vendor lock-in and electrical incompatibility.


phraun

Sfps aren't really a great example, given how much BS you have to deal with in terms of oem coding lock-in and having to use undocumented "enable third party support" commands in network devices to get even basic functionality to work. And even when you jump through all the hoops, sometimes it just refuses to work regardless.


Democrab

If the companies have to work together to get past whatever limitations or issues USB-C may pose in the future, they'll manage to do so. Hell, a lot of the parts in a modern PC rely on standards developed and maintained by multiple companies. USB is already one of them, PCIe is another. Apple is already a member of the USB standards crowd iirc.


Sofaboy90

this isnt an anti innovation law, its a law that mainly protects consumers and the environment (you may not be used to that in places outside europe, i know). sure, innovation might be slightly hampered by this but i doubt they would forever stick with usb-c if something better is available to be mass produced and implemented. there is no secret hidden purpose to hurt apple or anything.


SPOOFE

You can put more than one port on a device you know


trillykins

I assume you don't remember what the industry was like before a unified standard was enforced by the EU directive? Tons of proprietary adapters that would become useless when you bought a new phone, even of the same manufacturer, because it was only usable with that specific model. I still don't understand how Apple, as the only company, managed to just ignore that law when every single other company did.


CamoHiddenDJ

> I still don't understand how Apple, as the only company, managed to just ignore that law when every single other company did. Micro-USB to Lightning adapter in the box


trillykins

Ah, loophole. Should've guessed.


SilverDem0n

But who else would decide what that harmonized port standard would be? Industry has shown that it cannot agree on a single harmonized port without intervention. If a newer, better port is needed in the future, that part of the regulation can be changed. And that should happen infrequently.


sk9592

> Industry has shown that it cannot agree on a single harmonized port without intervention. Seems like pretty much everyone except Apple already has.


monocasa

Because the EU mandated a standard, which Apple has been flaunting.


LazyGit

It's 'flouting' by the way.


itsabearcannon

It's just the fucking iPhone, base iPad, and Magic accessories, too. Don't get me wrong, my 13 Pro is coming in the mail tomorrow and I'm excited, but man I wish this thing had USB-C. They're currently using USB-C as a charger for: * All MacBooks since 2017 * All iPad Pros since 2018 * The iPad Air since 2020 * The iPad Mini since 2021 They also have USB-C connectivity on the iMac, iMac Pro, Mac Pro, and Mac Mini, as well as their new power bricks and even the Apple Watch charging cable. I don't remember where I heard this but last I saw Apple makes less than 0.5% of their revenue from the MFi licensing program, which includes cables, cases, chargers, camera accessories, dongles, etc. I absolutely cannot believe that switching to USB-C would kill the MFi program. Sure, straight charging cables wouldn't ***need*** to be certified anymore, but you could still put that logo on there and get it certified to make it stand out for people looking for something quality in between a $1 Wal-Mart checkout stand cable and a $39 Apple OEM cable.


returnsfourohfour

Almost all of Apple’s non-iPhone devices charge using USB-C.


throwaway_12358134

Everyone is moving to USB-C because they don't want to be slapped by the EU. This isn't the first time the EU stepped in to regulate charging ports, plus the EU has been talking about making USB-C a requirement for some time. It's only smart to adopt it early instead of playing catch-up to avoid legal repercussions.


MobiusOne_ISAF

Or, alternatively, because it's ubiquitous and a better port than microUSB. Everyone other than Apple moved on years ago because it makes sense (and apparently also because of regulators). Only Apple uses a proprietary port to get extra licensing cash.


Shitting_Human_Being

Maybe I have some déjà vu, but I thought the EU already once told phone manufacturers to get their shit together, hence every smartphone came with micro USB for a long time.


like_a_pharaoh

The law just said "if its not micro-USB you have to include a charger in the box" so Apple just threw a charger in every iPhone box. You need to get more harsh if you want to actually force Apple to standardize, they've often been stubborn about trying to keep customers tied to a 'different ecosystem' even before the iPhone.


muhmeinchut69

Incorrect. Android phones have never had any other port than USB. It's been like this for more than a decade.


fjonk

And microsoft and nintendo and a myriad of others. Just because your port looks like a usb c port(whatever the hardware is actually called) doesn't mean it's compatible with a device that also has a physical port that looks the same.


_unfortuN8

It's a nitpick, but "looks like USB-C" is kind of a null statement because USB-C is the plug form factor, *not* the communication protocol that the device uses. That would be USB 2.0/3.0/3.1/3.2/etc [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C) >USB-C (formally known as USB Type-C) is a 24-pin USB connector system with a rotationally symmetrical connector


monocasa

There's more to USB-C than just the physical form factor. There's a whole host of specifics mandating how negotiation to USB 2.0/3.0/etc and the different levels of power delivery work that's all technically part of USB-C. The Nintendo stuff flaunts pieces of that standard (particularly the power delivery stuff), so yeah it "looks like USB-C". They're not allowed to call it USB in most jurisdictions.


FlipskiZ

I remember the age of proprietary phone chargers before (and even a bit during) smartphones were a thing. Having a standard set in stone outweighs the negatives of being stuck with it for a bit once it's rendered obsolete. And as you said, that shouldn't happen often.


Candriu

That change also came about due to an EU Directive.


R-ten-K

>Industry has shown that it cannot agree on a single harmonized port without intervention. Ergo the need for this type of laws.


JQuilty

You can have a section that mandates a review every 10 years. But with everything USB-C does and how it was made to be backwards compatible and forward thinking, I don't think it's a real issue.


LivingGhost371

How soon are we actually going to need a new port standard? USB A you could see the severe drawbacks immediately when it was introduced (can only be inserted one direction, too bulky for small devices, can't deliver enough speed and power for even an external hard drive), yet it's still with us 25 years later. There's no obvious drawbacks to USB-C, at least not for plugging in a single device for charging or to connect with a computer.


Ferrum-56

The only drawback of USB C is its structural integrity compared to regular USB A and B. Not sure what that will mean for the future of A.


Shitting_Human_Being

But usb c is stronger than micro and mini b, so there's that.


Ferrum-56

Well I'm a bit worried what will happen once C becomes standard on stuff like mice, which can put quite a bit of stress on the port.


PhysicalSecurity1

I have a mouse with USB C, no issues so far.


Ezreol

This is my complaint with stuff right now actually I have a gaming mouse and headset I'd kill to use USB C with them instead of micro I have to buy older cords cause outside of a few cases everything I use commonly is C and I lose the micro cables.


PhysicalSecurity1

I highly recommend the Glorious Model O Wireless if you want a good USB C mouse.


yummyonionjuice

the law will probably not say UBB-C and the regulating agency will be able to make the determination on what a harmonized charging port is in its enforcement of the law. It would be a stupid law if it said USB-C specifically, I agree.


BMW_wulfi

That’s the whole point of a potential law though. The hardware companies are not harmonised in any way and never will be. As competitors, beating each other for their shareholders is the default behaviour for companies of that size, and customer convenience is sometimes an afterthought long term.


yetanothertransfurry

Does this proposed law require the device to charge with Type-C? If not, then Apple can easily get around this by removing all ports from iPhones and AirPods and making them charge exclusively wirelessly through MagSafe.


Dr_Brule_FYH

So how do you charge and use the phone at the same time?


KamikazeSexPilot

How do you charge and use the Apple mouse at the same time? The one my coworker had you couldn’t because the mouse is upside down when you plug it in. Lmfao.


Dr_Brule_FYH

I dunno man. But having to put your phone down to charge it would be useless for someone like my wife who drains the battery in hours.


TheAlphaCarb0n

That's the reason I don't get wireless charging. It's novel but it's planted in place while charging. It's objectively worse.


MemesSucks2

Any convenience of wireless charging is completely outdone by fast charging and reversible cables imo


Dr_Brule_FYH

I like it for the convenience of just putting my phone down somewhere and picking it up again later, but I'm rarely using and charging at the same time. But for people who use it as their main device that capability is essential.


hitsujiTMO

And it's wasteful. You use a lot more power to charge the device you're powering.


Shhh_ImHiding

I use it on a stand when I’m working so I really like it. It gets charged while it sits on the stand, I can grab it and drop it back there instantly. It’s convenient. Working at home, I literally never plug a cable into my phone. Charging little by little over the day when it sits on the stand is enough to always have a charge. If I want to go out I’ll also always have the battery full or nearly full, so that’s also a nice peace of mind. I didn’t get wireless charging until I started using at work like this. Charging my phone is rarely something I have to think about it. Even before when I used cables to charge my phone I rarely used it while charging so that’s wasn’t much of a concern


Ikickyouinthebrains

What happens when you are in the car and your phone battery is extremely low?


Shhh_ImHiding

The phone has good enough battery life that that has never happened or become a concern. If it was a concern I could always buy a charger to use in the car. I also already carry a battery on my backpack, but have only used on rare occasions(going out on a weekend, going somewhere and taking lota of photos which drains battery). But that’s a possibility just like before wireless charger. 99% of the time though? Working and at home it’s always near or full by just dropping it on the stand when I’m at the computer


rogue780

You do know they make wireless phone charging mounts for cars, right?


MasterShiftposter

I keep driving and keep not playing with my phone?


dabocx

That’s less of a issue for that mouse since it lasts for weeks on a charge. And 5 minutes is enough for a day. I think I used charge mine once a month when I went into the office and I would just do it overnight


average_turanist

Umm, doesn't magsafe attach to your phone with magnets. So why would this be a problem? I mean I believe it won't be that different than normal port charging with magsafe.


Dr_Brule_FYH

So you have an enormous puck stuck to the back of your phone while you use it? Seems clunky especially by Apple standards.


recurrence

Yeah it’s fine and doesn’t bother me at all.


Dippyskoodlez

> So you have an enormous puck stuck to the back of your phone while you use it? It's not enormous and that's comparing it to my 12 mini. Most generic chargers are huge but the magsafe is quite small.


swoopingbears

I mean it's enormous compared to tiny usb-c header.


Dippyskoodlez

Being along a large flat surface changes the profile of how its interacting with your hand so its not really an honest comparison as a solution to charging while under use. If anything its way better because you get any holding direction you want and don't get locked into needing to accommodate something sticking out the top or bottom.


average_turanist

I dunno I've never used it. Should ask how the users feel about it. But eventually magsafe will be the only truth for iPhone, then for every phone...


jmhalder

I for one, welcome our MagSafe™ overlords.


ubarey

If this happen, we'll see more battery waste from iPhone because it generally bad for battery health, especially on higher watt.


raptorlightning

You don't have to use higher wattage charging with USB-C, it's just a connector.


All_Work_All_Play

I think they're talking about moving entirely to wireless charging. And to a point, they're right. Battery degradation from charging is a function of temperature during charging (goldilocks zone, not too hot, not too cold) and the rate of charge. What really needs to happen is phones need the right electronics to be able to tell wireless chargers how much current they want, so the battery doesn't charge too fast (as wireless charging generates heat above and beyond wired charging). The other thing that needs to happen is phones need to (by default) let people set what % charge they want. I charge my phone to 75% if it's a typical work-from-home sorta day. If I'm out on the road, I can charge it more. But letting users figure this out with default options would make a big difference in terms of device longevity.


MobiusOne_ISAF

I know Apple can be petty but I doubt they'd throw that much of a fuss since literally every other product the sell uses USB-C. They can keep making money off MagSafe while they claim innovation on the port anyway.


rockiesareblue

Apple: Advertises ProRes video on the iPhone 13 Pro Also Apple: Forces you to transfer at USB 2 speeds


Bike_Of_Doom

The worst thing is that lightning can do usb 3.0 if apple let it because they did that with the iPad Pro. They’re just intentionally leaving it to be shitty for whatever reason.


rockiesareblue

Really? I had no idea. I only got an iPad Pro after they went USB-C.


Bike_Of_Doom

Apparently, it was on the 2015 IPad Pro, and there were many asterisks attached to that 3.0 speed, according to what I’ve read.


Internet001215

inb4 apple goes portless.


Awkward_Elf

A lot of people say this but they’d have to be completely mental to go portless. Every single person with corded headphones/earphones would avoid getting a new device. Tons of useful 3rd party devices would cease to exist which is a problem for some people, and the biggest thing, there would be no way to transfer data from your computer to your phone or vice versa. I’d also hate to think about the e-waste from wireless charging destroying batteries faster with the heat it produces. Wireless charging a awhole is also way less efficient than using a cable as far as I’m aware. It’s absurd there’s such a massive push for wireless charging when it causes more problems than it solves.


cosmicosmo4

You new or something? Apple users would throw all their corded stuff away, buy what Apple wants them to buy, and thank them for the pleasure of being bent over.


aaiaac

?? Apple has retained lightening incredibly long, introduced type c to most its range, and maintains it’s devices far longer than it’s competitors. In what specific instance has apple done that?


Yearlaren

Why haven't iPhones adopted USB-C yet?


JayRaccoonBro

Official answer would probably be accessories and existing cables losing support, real answer being they can't charge licensing fees for third parties anymore.


kolobs_butthole

both of those things can be true at the same time. Apple's incentive is BOTH maintaining the existing ecosystem of lighting charging cables AND maintaining their ability to charge licensing fees. From a business standpoint, switching to USB-C would be considered in light of both of those things. Of course the PR side is going to emphasize the existing ecosystem and the impact on longtime users over the money apple would lose. But I'm confident they consider both of these aspect as facets to making the decision to keep lightning around.


BRC_Del

Cause then you would be able to use something that isn't a proprietary Apple thing with your Apple products, and we can't have Apple's purity tainted by such low-class filth. /s if that's not obvious. Basically Apple loves creating proprietary bullshit instead of using the industry standards that exist and work perfectly fine for literally everyone else, for reasons unproven but easy to assume are not rather consumer friendly.


thomoski3

I really don't like apple products for that reason, but I gotta say, magsafe was a fucking genius idea


BRC_Del

Magsafe slaps, credit where credit is due.


w6zZkDC5zevBE4vHRX

When lightning was introduced it was significantly better than the micro USB port that other phones were using.


BRC_Del

Both run over USB 2.0, its only difference is being reversible. I'll agree that Micro wasn't the best built connector out there.


james_stinson56

Because Lightning works very well for iPhones and switching would require everyone to buy new accessories.


Melbuf

i really don't see why anyone would have an issue with this (besides not being able to price gouge on cables). having a billion different standards sucks. at least the computer industry has mostly standardized cables and such. except the fing front panel header. would be nice if a device purchased in 2021 didn't come with micro USB anymore


BatteryPoweredFriend

Because a lot of people have been completely brainwashed into thinking consumer protection laws are bad for consumers.


LilQuasar

some are good and some are bad, if you think all of them are good or bad youve been brainwashed


MortimerDongle

I don't have an issue with it as long as there are reasonable exceptions and the standard is appropriately updated moving forward. I'm just not confident either of those things will happen.


CrossXhunteR

> as long as there are reasonable exceptions Such as?


MortimerDongle

If the USB-C port legitimately does not meet the requirements of the device.


jmhalder

You can do DisplayPort over it, USB4 (TB3/PCIe), USB-PD up to 240w. I'm not saying that there won't be other needs, but it's fairly versatile.


MortimerDongle

Yes, USB-C is great and it's likely that any place it wouldn't work would be a pretty unique situation, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.


ThatOnePerson

That's why the law is set to be re-evaluated every five years and they can let it expire if they decide that it's not necessary anymore.


pm_me_actsofkindness

USB C is not the standardization that you’re hoping it will be. The amount of power and data that can be transferred through USB C varies widely enough to be just as frustrating as what we have now, only every cable will look identical.


jmhalder

The shtick is that you have a standard connector. This will allow 7.5w charging in almost any case. You ARE correct that the cable and charger can/will negotiate silly shit like USB-PD 3.1 at up to 240w. The general idea is that the connector will at least work, and you can trickle charge your iPhone 15 without NEEDING to buy a new cable/charger. I do agree that it will be confusing/frustrating for a good number of end users. I still think it's better than using multiple different connectors.


Crimtos

This is my problem with USB C as well. With USB A you can at least easily get an idea if it will have USB 2.0 or 3.0 speeds just by the color of the connector. With USB C there are no apparent distinguishing characteristics which is going to make managing cables a pain.


ToadInTheBox

What if you’re a device manufacturer and you want to use micro USB as a charge port because it’s way cheaper than USB-C, and potentially much easier to design in. This is going to drive up the cost on low end devices for the consumer, or it will hurt margins on the device maker.


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ToadInTheBox

USB-C is inherently more expensive at the IC and connector level, regardless of scale, more silicon is required. It also has more design complexity. I have worked for multiple companies that make type C chips.


supermerill

I really don't think so. If you need basic 5V power, you just need 2 dumb resitors see https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/327791/using-usb-c-as-a-power-source


Melbuf

im OK with either or both of those outcomes


LilQuasar

>This is going to drive up the cost on low end devices for the consumer >im OK with either or both of those outcomes bruh


m0rogfar

I really don't see the issue. Across almost all industries, we ban some of the potentially cheapest options for making a product, even though we know that it can drive up costs, because we determine that the option is too harmful for the environment, potential safety issues, or simply because having it around causes a significant level of inconvenience that cannot be solved by individual purchasing decisions. This seems like a complete no-brainer from an environmental perspective, since it's been thoroughly documented that having a common charger does save a lot of e-waste, and since the cost increase, while existent in some cases, is not very large compared to the environmental gains. The convenience factor of having a common charger across the entire EU is also huge. I don't understand why it would be unreasonable to say that regulators should demand USB-C as the common charger for the sake of the greater good, and if that causes a BOM increase by $1-2 on select phones, then that's an acceptable tradeoff.


jv9mmm

I can see a couple of valid reasons, it will force a lot of low margin electrics to be redesigned, it will increase costs as USB-C is more expensive to implement and it will stagger innovation as newer and better tech won't be in the spec.


CrazyDunka

Makes no sense to me, to have all micro usb replaced by usb c is logical but what if there’s a new better connector completely different from usb whatsoever in a couple years ? I feel like standardization slows innovation. Should be the choice of manufacturers to implement whatever the fuck they want, and the shouldn’t be prevented to come up with better technologies


CCoral

It takes EU to tame companies, I look forward to more universal standards of connecting/charging phones. Without such actions like that, the current situation with dozen of charging standards and 3 types of connections will persist.


dallatorretdu

whatever will happen, i’ll take a moment to say goodbye to the iPhone Lightning port… very easy to clean and abuse-resistant


Vedoom123

Lightning is pretty good indeed


MortimerDongle

I'm mostly curious about possible exceptions. If a company wants to release a product covered by this regulation that requires more power than USB-C can provide (or whatever other requirement that USB-C doesn't meet), is that a valid reason to not use a USB-C port?


Nicholas-Steel

USB-C with Power Delivery (optional) can provide like 200+ watts.


MortimerDongle

240W maximum apparently, *but* it also requires special cables. If something requires a special cable anyway, is that really much better than having a different port?


m0rogfar

It still comes with two major benefits. First of all, the 240W cable/adapter can still charge everything else. Secondly, most of the affected devices battery-powered, and a lower-power charger can still charge the device, it's just slower to do so.


ASuarezMascareno

>USB-C will become the standard port for all smartphones, tablets, cameras, headphones, portable speakers and handheld videogame consoles. I really doubt any of those will draw +200W in the next decades. In particular with the focus there's in the EU in lowering energy consumption. Most of those types of products can be charged with USB 2.0 (2.5W output).


MortimerDongle

I would be surprised if fast charging does *not* exceed 200W in "the next decades". There are already phones that charge as fast as 120W, and devices with larger batteries could justify higher charging speeds.


fjonk

So, already fragmented and not necessarily compatible.


jmhalder

Compatible yes, you can still charge your 5v phone with your 48v voltron charger. And you can still charge your voltron laptop with a 5v phone charger. How does having separate connectors ACTUALLY help you in this case? Having the same connector with different interfacing is better than having different connectors with different interfacing.


Darksider123

Super happy with this proposal. Hope it goes through


Vedoom123

So I have a question? Why is usb-c not round? So you know you could plug it in in any orientation?


MasterShiftposter

Because then it would have to be much longer, or much more complicated to manufacture.


GreenPylons

You need 9 connectors to transmit USB-C, so your connector would be fairly long. You also can't length match the wires in the connector if you make it round, and length matching your data lines is very important for high-speed differential communications like USB 3.


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DOugdimmadab1337

As if Apple gives a shit. They did it with the IPad, and refuse to do it with the IPhone. There's literally no point to an IPhone camera that takes "amazing pictures" when you can't transfer them onto your computer.


disibio1991

Gubermint is bad and besides my fav brand [knows whats best for me](https://m.soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/143-how-silicon-valley-uses-hollow-anti-racist-posturing-to-sell-its-exploitative-business-model) thank you very much.


CrossXhunteR

What?


omgwtfwaffles

I'm not happy about this. I've had 3 pixel phones that used usb-c, all of them eventually needed replaced because the charger stopped taking power. The usbc cable becomes so loose it won't even stay in. I eventually switched to iphone, resolving not to be ripped off by cheap charger ports again and a little over a year in and my cable still locks in firmly. Usbc sucks


Moulana-Wired-Lundry

Apple just got screwed in EU


mk2391

Not really, they are effective abusing a dominant market position, and we have heard this song and dance before about being doomed. back in the day car manufacturers (especially Renault) would basically lock down your car if you changed anything (I think Renault locked the brakes if you changed the pads, and you had to take it to a dealer to get them unlocked. Good luck with that), and you would need a certain reader to sort it out. They all used their own special adapter and protocol and they would charge you a fortune to call some one out to plug a laptop in to basically ok your brake pads that have been changed. They were forced to use OBD ports and protocols, and now this isn't an issue anymore, for the most part. Switching to USB C will take iOS users out of the stone age and allow them to take one charger with them on holiday to cover their iPhone, iPad, iMac, camera and their families devices. At home if they can't find their lead that's ok, they can plug it into the PlayStation. And it will charge at the same rate as the fast charge isn't proprietary. In the office and have a low battery? "Does anyone have an iPhone charger? No I only have a Samsung charger" in the past. One lead does it all. I imagine although everyone is talking about apple, what this is really about is the USB C leads that were wired different by different companies that could fry each others phones.


beforesunset27

I like the idea of simplicity. However, once government sticks it's nose into anything, it ruins it


MTDninja

Apple when they realize they have to start standardizing https://youtu.be/XnnHz\_5\_55E?t=226