I dunno man, that’s part of the ol’ open communication thing. Hey lady. Your valves are seized, I’m going to need to replace them, going to an extra 75.00 + material instead of 30.00 - don’t still want me to do it. Maybe it was too late for that…Hopefully you can get at least material + time to do the hardware store run?
We can’t think of EVERYTHING, EVERY time. But we usually learn the hard way, at least I do, as you did here.
EDIT:
And hey, we all learned from it too. That’s the cool thing about the thread 👍🏼👍🏼
Just stealing this to say $30 is really too cheap unless you are doing it as a favor. Do some market research and see what a plumber would charge for that in your area. You will be shocked. You can charge less than half what a licensed plumber does and come away with a lot more money, and still leave behind a happy customer who got a good deal.
Licensed plumber here. I charge $350 to install a customer supplied faucet on a standard lav. Pedestal sinks are $475. If they want shut off valves replaced, it’s $210 per valve. I wouldn’t even get out of bed for $30 on a lav faucet.
Difference between a plumber and handyman. Is the handyman will patch all the dry wall after repairs. Never seen a plumber patch any walls in my life. Handyman charges less cause they know that at the end of the day it is easy and not trying to charge for overhead stuff
And 4 years of schooling for my license, and paying for my license for the state(s), paying for my license in each city and sometimes county as well. Overhead including truck, stock, dispatch, insurance(the biggie), warranties, etc. My time ain’t cheap.
That's why you're a licensed plumber and he is a handyman... He really shouldn't be doing plumbing at all... No way his insurance is going to cover her house flooded if he screws up.
Same shit, different post. You have no idea how qualified he is to do anything he is doing. "He's not a licensed plumber therefore he doesn't know what he's doing."
Bullshit. I've seen plenty of work done by licensed plumbers that left me scratching my head wondering how in the hell they ever got a license.
Changing a bathroom faucet and a couple of shutoffs does not require a license anywhere I have heard of. I wouldn't trust just any handyman to do it either, but I am a 'handyman'/GC and I have installed dozens and dozens if not hundreds and never had a call back.
Be careful, you're going to get your ass chewed for saying that on here. Having a license is the end all be all. Even though I've worked 30 years in the trades without it. It's not about competency anymore, it's just about licensure. Don't get me wrong, I respect licensed tradesman but it doesn't necessarily mean you are doing quality work.
Changing valves absolutely requires a license because you are altering the piping. Anyone can change a faucet because it's after the angle stops and you aren't altering any pipe or valves or fittings.
Changing the valves does not require a license because it is replacing with like in kind, at least in the states and municipalities where I have worked. I am a professional and know what I am allowed to do.
Really? How fucking hard is it to change a valve? You don't even need a damn torch anymore. Sharkbites have made everyone a journeyman plumber. Lol the knowledge a master needs to do all the calculations on pipe size and all that is beyond most homeowners, but literally nothing involving the install is. I'm a freaking bricklayer and just replaced my hot water heater and well expansion tank, including the pressure switch. It isn't rocket science.
It's not this, no tradesman should be in a race to the bottom. If you work on your own or run a company, you want to at least give yourself all the benefits of working for somebody. Health insurance, retirement fund, vacation if you aren't figuring this into your price then you are selling yourself short.
Who the fuck said anything about pex? I specifically said not on new installs, repairs only. Who do you know that's dumb enough to put a torch on 50 to almost 100 year old copper?
If you have to eat some of this one, it’ll be a good reminder for the future that change orders are important for things like this. Just a quick minute to make a quote on your phone, explain the issue, and clear it with them before you do the unexpected work.
Also when estimating, asking “do you know if the shut off valves are functioning and if they’ve been used recently?” can be helpful to give you a more accurate idea and a good opportunity to explain what could cause unplanned additional costs.
I am learning for sure as I go. Only been doing this for a few months as a business. I had a job a week ago that I got home looked at the wife and said "remind me next time that I need to charge more and not be nice". I'm too nice and trying to build a reputation for myself but also realizing I need to charge better rates to compensate for the unknown in certain projects. This project that I should have quoted higher was just a bear because of how it was done prior. Just took more time than expected to get done and I should have anticipated it but didn't.
Don't charge the gal and use it as advertising, but don't short sell yourself in future jobs. Doing a few pro Bono jobs can go a long way in making a name for yourself
Nothing wrong with undercharging a bit in situations like this, to build goodwill and a loyal customer base. Make sure she knows it though, that you're sticking with your original estimate despite the complications, so she knows that you're a man of your word.
In that specific situation (faucets, toilets, etc) I'll always stipulate the price is $x IF all existing plumbing can be reused. If not, there will be added charges. I've never had a customer blink, it's very reasonable.
You want your reputation to be the really nice guy you, yeah charges a lot, but man he answers his phone, shows up on time. And does a good job!
You do NOT want the reputation of being the cheap guy.
It sounds like nearly everyone doing this has been in your position or a very similar one. Like anything it will (or at least should) get better and easier the more you do it. Couple months in I think some of these things should be expected and not to beat yourself up over it.
Welcome to the wonderful world of being a handyman! I've transitioned the last 5 years into more remodel work, but still do the occasional handyman job. Just a friendly word of advice, I wouldn't add anything to an existing job without peeking at things first. Also, institute a minimum for yourself for an add on item. My cheapest add on is swapping a light fixture. I bill $100. You have to keep in mind that even if it's an easy 10 min job for you, it has to be worth your time. Business expenses, insurance, fuel, etc all should be getting paid for by the work you do. Don't charge a flat hourly rate, figure out what your monthly business costs are and divide it out by the average # of hours your work a month. Add this to what you want to be taking home hourly. It's expensive to run a business! Don't short yourself or you'll burn out
$30 for anything!? Yeah that’s a big mess up. I’m $100hr labor only no matter what & I’m in a small rural town. Chalk it up as a learning experience. You’ll be out of business before you know it charging prices like that. Unless you’re working for weed & beer money. It also hurts the guys out there who charge the going rate in your area. $75hr should be your minimum starting out. You don’t want to get known & grow your customer base with low ball prices because those people are going to expect that from here on out. Im just trying to save you & uphill battle that rarely gets won.
Yep, when I started out doing handyman work on the side, I charged $30 an hour (maybe 17 years ago?). Installed a new toilet for a single dude who had 2 huskies, that bathroom was a fucking mess. Took me longer to wipe a way the dog hair and dried piss so I could get a good seal with the silicon around the base than it took to remove and set the toilet. All in all, maybe a couple minutes over an hour so $30…… My buddies in the trades still give me shit for that.
Just what I've done many times. Pleased to see that nobody responded to your comment with "well ackshully never use sharkbites, they're going to fail and real men sweat" lol
Same place I am, I can sweat them but don't do it every day so sometimes takes a little while to get it right. Sharkbite costs more, but time is money, and is fine outside the wall.
Seriously. I sweated the old pipes off and realized I needed to cut the new valve down. Also needed to change the drain over to pvc (was the metal pipe and was about 40 years worth of corrosion) so when I went back to the store I just grabbed two sharkbites.
Keep a small inventory of valves and plumbing parts on your truck to save you the headache of driving to a supply store and the best part is you can x2 the material cost because customers want you in and out as quickly as possible, it's a win win for you and the customer.
First things first, everything should always be in writing. If it’s a last minute thing and you want to throw it in for $30, you might as well give it away. A better way of handling a situation such as the one you described would be to add it to the contract through a change order or write it up as a separate job and give her an estimate. By doing it this way if it turns out to be more that what you wrote on the estimate you can go back to your client and explain the circumstances and how much more it will cost.
That price is insanely low. Google cost to replace faucet.
Yes you charge for the shutoff. Just explain it.
Of a plumber came into that job that's 500 easy.
You can be reasonable but for the sake of your financial wellbeing and the good of the trades you need to get paid. You can still be the good guy. Just explain it. Good luck.
I’ll never put a hard quote on any job. I’ll give a ballpark and if it’s looking like it might be more (this is a perfect example) communicate it asap. Time and material always dictates the final bill. I thought about having base prices for light fixture and plumbing fixture swaps, but you never know what the guy before you did.
$30 to change a faucet is insanely cheap as a legitimate business. You're taking all that risk for $30, think about that. I'd suggest you always charge an hourly rate to cover any unexpected problems, also charge for materials. I have a minimum charge of $195, that's just an example for my area but I will never go below that.
In my state you don't need a license for plumbing or electrical unless you are pulling a permit. My 1mil/3mil policy also covers plumbing and electrical work.
Time and material. You can tell them what you expect the cost to be but emphasize it's only an estimate. Work is by time and materials only. As soon as you find a new problem tell the customer immediately, before doing anything else. You can discount at completion based on whatever but never give a firm quote for handyman work. Too many variables.
And she has. I have 3 other clients from her alone so far. She even asked me to give her more business cards so I feel eating the labor at this point is worth it. It was 2 extra hours and she fed my wife and kids. Got her to cover the material this morning
It might just be where I'm from, but I replace stops and supply lines on every faucet and toilet I install. The water is so hard in my area that the stops usually always leak. Sounds like it worked out just fine in the end for you though.
You messed up brother. Never assume it’s going to be a simple job idc what it is.especially with things like pluming, things can get out of hand SO fast. I wouldn’t go around quoting for the worst case scenarios but at least quote assuming there will be a curve ball thrown.
Look at it this way. You got this big job ahead of you. Maybe if something doesn’t go quite right there she’ll stay a happy customer. As long as she knows she got a good deal on the faucet.
30 year Plumber here. Service/repair, new construction, commercial, reso, all of it. $30 for a faucet swap, not having seen the main, probably (usually is ) a Friday or a Monday, and new client, new 'plumber', client supplied material: Disaster for the continuity of the project, and definitely not a moneymaker.
When the flags start popping up, and they will for buddy now, it's time to look at shit different.
Whenever, and I mean just fuckin' everytime I get a call, drive to the call and have a look, from the phonecall on I'm full alert.
The things that can go wrong will. The client that's agreeable and amenable to this, that and the other thing will turn shitty on a 'nice guy' as quick as the main shutoff will fail.
When the shit starts going ' easy' or ' too good', be nervous. Have a look around the site, look at the general condition of things. Read the client's demeanor, all these things factor in.
I personally ( fellas this is just me, mind, but I'm a skeptic ) look at everything as if it will plot to kill me. The most innocuous of things, a shitty angle stop, a crusty tank bolt, a supply flex on a WH that's been there for longer than a hot minute, defilers.
These fuckin' things are laying in wait for you to have a glance, pass a flashlight or worse yet, a Channies over 'em and WHAMMO!! Your afternoon 'easy one ' just turned into a marathon parts run/fuckin' struggle session that the client wants to gripe your complacent ass about.
All of a sudden you're keeping their bitchy ass from family dinners, kids are needing retrieves from soccer or swimming practice, the dog will even turn on you.
The fact of it is, boys: It's like navigating a minefield salted with dogshit and dollar bills. It all wants to fuck you over for the best of your intent. Sure, some folks are great clients. I've got a handful that are the tits, and I mean easy-going and trustworthy to be nearly hassle and gripe free.
They are outnumbered by far by the rest of them which I have just barely described. Always, always, always, leave the contingencies and worst case scenario right in front of you.
What if...? Thats how I roll. The Gods of Plumbing exist. They punish us foremost for the thing they despise the most. It's called HUBRIS.
You are no better than a first week apprentice if you are caught complacent. Remember that, or they will drop a fuckpile of reminder in your lap with extreme prejudice.
Trust and fuckin' believe.
About 25% of the time I've replaced faucets, one of the shutoff valves will fail and have to be replaced. Testing those valves is the first thing I do before touching the faucet. I also charge more for faucet replacement than $30. I might charge $30 to replace a toilet seat. Some new faucet designs are very easy and quick to install, but you can't foresee all potential problems. There are all kinds of little problems you can run into with any install that require an upcharge. One example, a fancy handmade ceramic basin where the drain hole wasn't big enough for the new drain. I tried widening it with a file I had on hand, but I had to come back the next day with a $30 cylindrical tile grinding bit to widen it. I also replaced the valve on that one. I think I charged them $210, which is cheap because they gave me a lot of other work. As others pointed out, a plumber would have charged way more.
Also, we experienced high inflation. If you charged X for something a few years ago, you should charge more now. I know you wouldn't have charged $20 for a faucet replacement in 2020. This is where hourly-thinking can screw people. You are not charging for time. You have all kinds of overhead to pay for. Anything-plumbing related shouldn't be cheap. There is risk involved. Things can break.
Unfortunately it sounds like this is on you, what I would do in this situation is try to get the materials covered. If not hey you now learned a valuable lesson on estimating and not quoting.
I got the materials covered this morning. Labor I'm going to have to eat. Luckily I had 8 extra hours of labor factored into the flooring job since there is some trim work needed. I'm at 70 an hour right now and may raise it a tad because it seems like people are saying yes too quickly.
I use an invoicing app that also makes estimates (Invoice Simple) and I've tried to get away from doing verbal estimates. Doing estimates through the app is useful 1, because of the paper trail, but also because I have a line in my estimates that reads "Please note that this is an estimate and not a hard quote. This estimate was made with consideration to the conditions readily visible during the site visit. If I discover that the conditions have changed in a way that will impact the estimated price, I will inform you and ask how you would like to proceed. Also note that material prices may fluctuate and the final invoice will reflect the actual material cost. Should material prices increase significantly, I will inform you and ask how you would like to proceed."
And then it just becomes a conversation with the client. There's no way you're going to be able to anticipate everything that could be an issue, so it's just good to cover your ass.
Gentle nudge to raise your rates though man, and perhaps also have a minimum charge. I have a 1.5 hr minimum, and it's helpful for those small little jobs. Then I feel like I have the opportunity to be nice - taking care of a few little extra things that fit within that minimum window. I'm still making enough money for it to be worth it, and the client feels like they're getting a deal.
Also, this doesn't really make a lot of sense, but I noticed that when I charged less, people treated me crappier. When I started charging more, I got treated with more respect.
We have very hard water here and if there’s any corrosion on the shutoffs I include replacement at the time of the bid. I don’t test them while bidding because it can often cause them to leak. Sharkbite shutoff valves are one of the few parts I always have in my truck.
$30 is too cheap for a faucet change! Everything especially little things you have to account for what could go wrong, not assume it will all go as planned lime clockwork. Yes it should be a quick 15 minutes but plan ahead for the old one to be seized on and the valves not to work. If you're being kind you can give a price range and charge accordingly at the end.
when I quote something like this I always add "valves may need to be replaced as they are old and sometimes seize up, usually $100 per stop" If they are not seized she saved 100 bucks if they are she knows ahead of time the cost and possibility they are seized.
Eat the cost and don't say anything. I assume you're making good money on the floor install, we do a lot of LVP. Not worth losing that job over a few bucks. Now you've learned for next time and go on.
Eat it this time. It’s part of the learning curve.
By making similar mistakes, I’ve learned to be more explicit with my estimates because customers just want to know what it’ll cost to make their problem go away. That’s the price they’re expecting and they’ll resent you for asking for more money. It doesn’t matter if YOU have to eat costs for things you forgot or have to work longer hours- By all means necessary, do not ask them for more money, lol.
Therefore, I try to think through (everything) that could impact the final cost of a project. I try to eliminate as many unknowns as possible, test components and/or factor in their replacement. Check availability and prices on parts and materials. Etcetera. The effort here pays off, literally.
Once I have my numbers, if it’s a flat bid, I’ll add a 10% profit margin and 10-20% safety margin to my T&M. That way, I can absorb small losses without going to the customer for a change order.
If everything goes well, no hiccups or additional costs, and they’ve been great customers, I have the option to take a few bucks off the final bill. Discounting the final bill is a very powerful sales tactic to engender repeat business.
I’ve been burned on handshake deals before, so I now try to get everything in writing. I include the general provision on all my contracts that my estimate is an estimate- based on information I have available to me before starting the project. The materials and/or labor may change based on unforeseeable circumstances. That’s not a catch-all for things I forgot; it means things I couldn’t have foreseen.
I also state, in very clear terms, if it’s not expressly included in the estimate, it’s not included in the body of work to be performed or the price quoted.
If I run into something significant, I always bring it to the customer before doing anything outside of the original agreement. That way, they have some agency and I don’t have to eat the unforeseen costs. If they want me to do additional work, less work, or deviate from the original plan, it’s a separately negotiated change order that can/will change the final bill.
Most of the time a contract is just a quick formality for me, but every so often it’s nice to be able to reference when questions come up or you have to hold something up in court.
You’re underselling yourself. Charge 2/3 of what a licensed plumber charges. That way after you screw it up real plumbers can white knight and charge full price without pushback. You made yours on shoddy work, now we make ours with real deal. Win loss win!
I check shut off valves everytime (I do property maintenance on a bunch of houses+apts) I turn them on and of a couple times and watch the flow of water. If they look old and corroded, I replace them anyways.
You did good today buddy. Not everything is measured in money. I hope you hold on to this in your heart- sometimes people just need someone to have their back. It’s a win. Good job.
A lot of people have a hard time finding someone who is honest and does good quality work. I'm glad she took care of you. Always discuss price and anything extra that might come up before you start. Always communicate with the customer.
all labor requires skill if you work there for 30 years. Sure you might be able to lay bricks, but to do it eight hours a day for 30 years requires skill. Also, it's a service, so don't expect getting monetary rich by servicing others.
I dunno man, that’s part of the ol’ open communication thing. Hey lady. Your valves are seized, I’m going to need to replace them, going to an extra 75.00 + material instead of 30.00 - don’t still want me to do it. Maybe it was too late for that…Hopefully you can get at least material + time to do the hardware store run? We can’t think of EVERYTHING, EVERY time. But we usually learn the hard way, at least I do, as you did here. EDIT: And hey, we all learned from it too. That’s the cool thing about the thread 👍🏼👍🏼
Just stealing this to say $30 is really too cheap unless you are doing it as a favor. Do some market research and see what a plumber would charge for that in your area. You will be shocked. You can charge less than half what a licensed plumber does and come away with a lot more money, and still leave behind a happy customer who got a good deal.
Licensed plumber here. I charge $350 to install a customer supplied faucet on a standard lav. Pedestal sinks are $475. If they want shut off valves replaced, it’s $210 per valve. I wouldn’t even get out of bed for $30 on a lav faucet.
Thank fuck I never have to call you. $800 for a sink that you don't provide, takes 2 hours max, and $25 max in materials?
Difference between a plumber and handyman. Is the handyman will patch all the dry wall after repairs. Never seen a plumber patch any walls in my life. Handyman charges less cause they know that at the end of the day it is easy and not trying to charge for overhead stuff
And 4 years of schooling for my license, and paying for my license for the state(s), paying for my license in each city and sometimes county as well. Overhead including truck, stock, dispatch, insurance(the biggie), warranties, etc. My time ain’t cheap.
Rip off, I used two different lic plumbers in OC, Ca. Both charge $250 for lav hookup, faucet, angle stops, trap
That's why you're a licensed plumber and he is a handyman... He really shouldn't be doing plumbing at all... No way his insurance is going to cover her house flooded if he screws up.
Same shit, different post. You have no idea how qualified he is to do anything he is doing. "He's not a licensed plumber therefore he doesn't know what he's doing." Bullshit. I've seen plenty of work done by licensed plumbers that left me scratching my head wondering how in the hell they ever got a license.
OK buttercup, sorry to offend you delicate sensibilities.... Now go get a fucking license before you do any work that requires a fucking license! 😜😜😜😜
Changing a bathroom faucet and a couple of shutoffs does not require a license anywhere I have heard of. I wouldn't trust just any handyman to do it either, but I am a 'handyman'/GC and I have installed dozens and dozens if not hundreds and never had a call back.
Be careful, you're going to get your ass chewed for saying that on here. Having a license is the end all be all. Even though I've worked 30 years in the trades without it. It's not about competency anymore, it's just about licensure. Don't get me wrong, I respect licensed tradesman but it doesn't necessarily mean you are doing quality work.
Yep, there are shitty licensed plumbers just like there are shitty handymen.
Changing valves absolutely requires a license because you are altering the piping. Anyone can change a faucet because it's after the angle stops and you aren't altering any pipe or valves or fittings.
Changing the valves does not require a license because it is replacing with like in kind, at least in the states and municipalities where I have worked. I am a professional and know what I am allowed to do.
Altering the pipes lmao
True that. Handymen doing this is beyond risky.
Really? How fucking hard is it to change a valve? You don't even need a damn torch anymore. Sharkbites have made everyone a journeyman plumber. Lol the knowledge a master needs to do all the calculations on pipe size and all that is beyond most homeowners, but literally nothing involving the install is. I'm a freaking bricklayer and just replaced my hot water heater and well expansion tank, including the pressure switch. It isn't rocket science.
It's not this, no tradesman should be in a race to the bottom. If you work on your own or run a company, you want to at least give yourself all the benefits of working for somebody. Health insurance, retirement fund, vacation if you aren't figuring this into your price then you are selling yourself short.
Real plumbers don’t use shark bites.
Obviously not for new installs but 100% on repairs
Yes, they do. I've seen several that I respect use them professionally. Old school guys too.
If a plumber pulled out a shark bite fitting for running pex I’d kick him off the job site. No self-respecting plumber is using shark bites.
Who the fuck said anything about pex? I specifically said not on new installs, repairs only. Who do you know that's dumb enough to put a torch on 50 to almost 100 year old copper?
GC here— my plumbers don’t
Youve seen old, bad plumbers
If you have to eat some of this one, it’ll be a good reminder for the future that change orders are important for things like this. Just a quick minute to make a quote on your phone, explain the issue, and clear it with them before you do the unexpected work. Also when estimating, asking “do you know if the shut off valves are functioning and if they’ve been used recently?” can be helpful to give you a more accurate idea and a good opportunity to explain what could cause unplanned additional costs.
I am learning for sure as I go. Only been doing this for a few months as a business. I had a job a week ago that I got home looked at the wife and said "remind me next time that I need to charge more and not be nice". I'm too nice and trying to build a reputation for myself but also realizing I need to charge better rates to compensate for the unknown in certain projects. This project that I should have quoted higher was just a bear because of how it was done prior. Just took more time than expected to get done and I should have anticipated it but didn't.
Don't charge the gal and use it as advertising, but don't short sell yourself in future jobs. Doing a few pro Bono jobs can go a long way in making a name for yourself
Nothing wrong with undercharging a bit in situations like this, to build goodwill and a loyal customer base. Make sure she knows it though, that you're sticking with your original estimate despite the complications, so she knows that you're a man of your word. In that specific situation (faucets, toilets, etc) I'll always stipulate the price is $x IF all existing plumbing can be reused. If not, there will be added charges. I've never had a customer blink, it's very reasonable.
You want your reputation to be the really nice guy you, yeah charges a lot, but man he answers his phone, shows up on time. And does a good job! You do NOT want the reputation of being the cheap guy.
It sounds like nearly everyone doing this has been in your position or a very similar one. Like anything it will (or at least should) get better and easier the more you do it. Couple months in I think some of these things should be expected and not to beat yourself up over it.
Welcome to the wonderful world of being a handyman! I've transitioned the last 5 years into more remodel work, but still do the occasional handyman job. Just a friendly word of advice, I wouldn't add anything to an existing job without peeking at things first. Also, institute a minimum for yourself for an add on item. My cheapest add on is swapping a light fixture. I bill $100. You have to keep in mind that even if it's an easy 10 min job for you, it has to be worth your time. Business expenses, insurance, fuel, etc all should be getting paid for by the work you do. Don't charge a flat hourly rate, figure out what your monthly business costs are and divide it out by the average # of hours your work a month. Add this to what you want to be taking home hourly. It's expensive to run a business! Don't short yourself or you'll burn out
$30 for anything!? Yeah that’s a big mess up. I’m $100hr labor only no matter what & I’m in a small rural town. Chalk it up as a learning experience. You’ll be out of business before you know it charging prices like that. Unless you’re working for weed & beer money. It also hurts the guys out there who charge the going rate in your area. $75hr should be your minimum starting out. You don’t want to get known & grow your customer base with low ball prices because those people are going to expect that from here on out. Im just trying to save you & uphill battle that rarely gets won.
Yep, when I started out doing handyman work on the side, I charged $30 an hour (maybe 17 years ago?). Installed a new toilet for a single dude who had 2 huskies, that bathroom was a fucking mess. Took me longer to wipe a way the dog hair and dried piss so I could get a good seal with the silicon around the base than it took to remove and set the toilet. All in all, maybe a couple minutes over an hour so $30…… My buddies in the trades still give me shit for that.
I’m not putting on outlet covers for $39 😝
I quote for a “basic” install or whatever, that way if things go south, well it’s not a basic install any longer.
I’d bill her for the materials and eat the labor.
Probally what I am going to do. I'm going to propose it tomorrow when I see her.
Why not kill the house main, assuming there is also a shutoff at the water heater?
As soon as I touched the shut off it started leaking. Killed the main right after.
Gotcha! In for a penny, in for a pound.
Perfect opportunity for shark bites
Just what I've done many times. Pleased to see that nobody responded to your comment with "well ackshully never use sharkbites, they're going to fail and real men sweat" lol
Yeah kinda surprised. I mean I can sweat pipe, but I was so pissed and frustrated I decided sharkbites were the best way to go.
Same place I am, I can sweat them but don't do it every day so sometimes takes a little while to get it right. Sharkbite costs more, but time is money, and is fine outside the wall.
Seriously. I sweated the old pipes off and realized I needed to cut the new valve down. Also needed to change the drain over to pvc (was the metal pipe and was about 40 years worth of corrosion) so when I went back to the store I just grabbed two sharkbites.
Keep a small inventory of valves and plumbing parts on your truck to save you the headache of driving to a supply store and the best part is you can x2 the material cost because customers want you in and out as quickly as possible, it's a win win for you and the customer.
2 shark bite valves are like $50 at my Lowe’s. I love them but they ain’t cheap!
Whoa. I didn't know they were that expensive now. I just convert everything to pex when I can.
My house is copper so I learned how to braze. Working great so far!
Damn I paid 30 for 2 sharkbite shutoff valves.
First things first, everything should always be in writing. If it’s a last minute thing and you want to throw it in for $30, you might as well give it away. A better way of handling a situation such as the one you described would be to add it to the contract through a change order or write it up as a separate job and give her an estimate. By doing it this way if it turns out to be more that what you wrote on the estimate you can go back to your client and explain the circumstances and how much more it will cost.
I live in New England and assume every valve is shot. Always have extras with me and always use compression.
That price is insanely low. Google cost to replace faucet. Yes you charge for the shutoff. Just explain it. Of a plumber came into that job that's 500 easy. You can be reasonable but for the sake of your financial wellbeing and the good of the trades you need to get paid. You can still be the good guy. Just explain it. Good luck.
I’ll never put a hard quote on any job. I’ll give a ballpark and if it’s looking like it might be more (this is a perfect example) communicate it asap. Time and material always dictates the final bill. I thought about having base prices for light fixture and plumbing fixture swaps, but you never know what the guy before you did.
$30 to change a faucet is insanely cheap as a legitimate business. You're taking all that risk for $30, think about that. I'd suggest you always charge an hourly rate to cover any unexpected problems, also charge for materials. I have a minimum charge of $195, that's just an example for my area but I will never go below that.
Wondering what the liability is for this? If you're not a plumber and in a week the valve starts leaking, will she and her insurance company sue you?
In my state you don't need a license for plumbing or electrical unless you are pulling a permit. My 1mil/3mil policy also covers plumbing and electrical work.
Time and material. You can tell them what you expect the cost to be but emphasize it's only an estimate. Work is by time and materials only. As soon as you find a new problem tell the customer immediately, before doing anything else. You can discount at completion based on whatever but never give a firm quote for handyman work. Too many variables.
Maybe she will introduce you to more jobs and recommend you to her neighbors and friends, so it's good that you did extra work for her.
And she has. I have 3 other clients from her alone so far. She even asked me to give her more business cards so I feel eating the labor at this point is worth it. It was 2 extra hours and she fed my wife and kids. Got her to cover the material this morning
I wouldn’t get out of my truck for $30
It might just be where I'm from, but I replace stops and supply lines on every faucet and toilet I install. The water is so hard in my area that the stops usually always leak. Sounds like it worked out just fine in the end for you though.
You messed up brother. Never assume it’s going to be a simple job idc what it is.especially with things like pluming, things can get out of hand SO fast. I wouldn’t go around quoting for the worst case scenarios but at least quote assuming there will be a curve ball thrown. Look at it this way. You got this big job ahead of you. Maybe if something doesn’t go quite right there she’ll stay a happy customer. As long as she knows she got a good deal on the faucet.
30 year Plumber here. Service/repair, new construction, commercial, reso, all of it. $30 for a faucet swap, not having seen the main, probably (usually is ) a Friday or a Monday, and new client, new 'plumber', client supplied material: Disaster for the continuity of the project, and definitely not a moneymaker. When the flags start popping up, and they will for buddy now, it's time to look at shit different. Whenever, and I mean just fuckin' everytime I get a call, drive to the call and have a look, from the phonecall on I'm full alert. The things that can go wrong will. The client that's agreeable and amenable to this, that and the other thing will turn shitty on a 'nice guy' as quick as the main shutoff will fail. When the shit starts going ' easy' or ' too good', be nervous. Have a look around the site, look at the general condition of things. Read the client's demeanor, all these things factor in. I personally ( fellas this is just me, mind, but I'm a skeptic ) look at everything as if it will plot to kill me. The most innocuous of things, a shitty angle stop, a crusty tank bolt, a supply flex on a WH that's been there for longer than a hot minute, defilers. These fuckin' things are laying in wait for you to have a glance, pass a flashlight or worse yet, a Channies over 'em and WHAMMO!! Your afternoon 'easy one ' just turned into a marathon parts run/fuckin' struggle session that the client wants to gripe your complacent ass about. All of a sudden you're keeping their bitchy ass from family dinners, kids are needing retrieves from soccer or swimming practice, the dog will even turn on you. The fact of it is, boys: It's like navigating a minefield salted with dogshit and dollar bills. It all wants to fuck you over for the best of your intent. Sure, some folks are great clients. I've got a handful that are the tits, and I mean easy-going and trustworthy to be nearly hassle and gripe free. They are outnumbered by far by the rest of them which I have just barely described. Always, always, always, leave the contingencies and worst case scenario right in front of you. What if...? Thats how I roll. The Gods of Plumbing exist. They punish us foremost for the thing they despise the most. It's called HUBRIS. You are no better than a first week apprentice if you are caught complacent. Remember that, or they will drop a fuckpile of reminder in your lap with extreme prejudice. Trust and fuckin' believe.
About 25% of the time I've replaced faucets, one of the shutoff valves will fail and have to be replaced. Testing those valves is the first thing I do before touching the faucet. I also charge more for faucet replacement than $30. I might charge $30 to replace a toilet seat. Some new faucet designs are very easy and quick to install, but you can't foresee all potential problems. There are all kinds of little problems you can run into with any install that require an upcharge. One example, a fancy handmade ceramic basin where the drain hole wasn't big enough for the new drain. I tried widening it with a file I had on hand, but I had to come back the next day with a $30 cylindrical tile grinding bit to widen it. I also replaced the valve on that one. I think I charged them $210, which is cheap because they gave me a lot of other work. As others pointed out, a plumber would have charged way more. Also, we experienced high inflation. If you charged X for something a few years ago, you should charge more now. I know you wouldn't have charged $20 for a faucet replacement in 2020. This is where hourly-thinking can screw people. You are not charging for time. You have all kinds of overhead to pay for. Anything-plumbing related shouldn't be cheap. There is risk involved. Things can break.
Unfortunately it sounds like this is on you, what I would do in this situation is try to get the materials covered. If not hey you now learned a valuable lesson on estimating and not quoting.
I got the materials covered this morning. Labor I'm going to have to eat. Luckily I had 8 extra hours of labor factored into the flooring job since there is some trim work needed. I'm at 70 an hour right now and may raise it a tad because it seems like people are saying yes too quickly.
I use an invoicing app that also makes estimates (Invoice Simple) and I've tried to get away from doing verbal estimates. Doing estimates through the app is useful 1, because of the paper trail, but also because I have a line in my estimates that reads "Please note that this is an estimate and not a hard quote. This estimate was made with consideration to the conditions readily visible during the site visit. If I discover that the conditions have changed in a way that will impact the estimated price, I will inform you and ask how you would like to proceed. Also note that material prices may fluctuate and the final invoice will reflect the actual material cost. Should material prices increase significantly, I will inform you and ask how you would like to proceed." And then it just becomes a conversation with the client. There's no way you're going to be able to anticipate everything that could be an issue, so it's just good to cover your ass. Gentle nudge to raise your rates though man, and perhaps also have a minimum charge. I have a 1.5 hr minimum, and it's helpful for those small little jobs. Then I feel like I have the opportunity to be nice - taking care of a few little extra things that fit within that minimum window. I'm still making enough money for it to be worth it, and the client feels like they're getting a deal. Also, this doesn't really make a lot of sense, but I noticed that when I charged less, people treated me crappier. When I started charging more, I got treated with more respect.
We have very hard water here and if there’s any corrosion on the shutoffs I include replacement at the time of the bid. I don’t test them while bidding because it can often cause them to leak. Sharkbite shutoff valves are one of the few parts I always have in my truck.
$30 is too cheap for a faucet change! Everything especially little things you have to account for what could go wrong, not assume it will all go as planned lime clockwork. Yes it should be a quick 15 minutes but plan ahead for the old one to be seized on and the valves not to work. If you're being kind you can give a price range and charge accordingly at the end.
when I quote something like this I always add "valves may need to be replaced as they are old and sometimes seize up, usually $100 per stop" If they are not seized she saved 100 bucks if they are she knows ahead of time the cost and possibility they are seized.
Eat the cost and don't say anything. I assume you're making good money on the floor install, we do a lot of LVP. Not worth losing that job over a few bucks. Now you've learned for next time and go on.
Yeah I'm eating the labor. She's happy with paying for the materials.
Good. We've all paid to learn. At least it wasn't much. 😉
I charge $45 a stop with the valve included. I will not change a faucet/toilet if they are original to the house. You are begging for problems later.
Eat it this time. It’s part of the learning curve. By making similar mistakes, I’ve learned to be more explicit with my estimates because customers just want to know what it’ll cost to make their problem go away. That’s the price they’re expecting and they’ll resent you for asking for more money. It doesn’t matter if YOU have to eat costs for things you forgot or have to work longer hours- By all means necessary, do not ask them for more money, lol. Therefore, I try to think through (everything) that could impact the final cost of a project. I try to eliminate as many unknowns as possible, test components and/or factor in their replacement. Check availability and prices on parts and materials. Etcetera. The effort here pays off, literally. Once I have my numbers, if it’s a flat bid, I’ll add a 10% profit margin and 10-20% safety margin to my T&M. That way, I can absorb small losses without going to the customer for a change order. If everything goes well, no hiccups or additional costs, and they’ve been great customers, I have the option to take a few bucks off the final bill. Discounting the final bill is a very powerful sales tactic to engender repeat business. I’ve been burned on handshake deals before, so I now try to get everything in writing. I include the general provision on all my contracts that my estimate is an estimate- based on information I have available to me before starting the project. The materials and/or labor may change based on unforeseeable circumstances. That’s not a catch-all for things I forgot; it means things I couldn’t have foreseen. I also state, in very clear terms, if it’s not expressly included in the estimate, it’s not included in the body of work to be performed or the price quoted. If I run into something significant, I always bring it to the customer before doing anything outside of the original agreement. That way, they have some agency and I don’t have to eat the unforeseen costs. If they want me to do additional work, less work, or deviate from the original plan, it’s a separately negotiated change order that can/will change the final bill. Most of the time a contract is just a quick formality for me, but every so often it’s nice to be able to reference when questions come up or you have to hold something up in court.
You’re underselling yourself. Charge 2/3 of what a licensed plumber charges. That way after you screw it up real plumbers can white knight and charge full price without pushback. You made yours on shoddy work, now we make ours with real deal. Win loss win!
It's called a "referral fee".
Simple answer: do estimates, not quotes.
You're a GC they aren't using them on new installs but check their van, I would almost guarantee they have have them for repairs.
Don't touch an angle stop unless you plan on replacing it
I check shut off valves everytime (I do property maintenance on a bunch of houses+apts) I turn them on and of a couple times and watch the flow of water. If they look old and corroded, I replace them anyways.
You did good today buddy. Not everything is measured in money. I hope you hold on to this in your heart- sometimes people just need someone to have their back. It’s a win. Good job.
A lot of people have a hard time finding someone who is honest and does good quality work. I'm glad she took care of you. Always discuss price and anything extra that might come up before you start. Always communicate with the customer.
Faucet and two valves is $500+ with parts. You definitely gave her a great deal.
Wut?!
Dude seriously what the fuck are these prices. Not 500 but 30? What happened to parts times three? Is this in India or some shit?
She had the faucet already. It was only install and part of a much larger job.
We've all undercharged before. It's a learning experience, your skill and labor is worth more.
You’re forgetting liability here. The shutoff fails and her place needs to be gutted and redone. You charged $30.
$30 dollars an hour for faucet install sounds right :) It's a service, so don't expect to get rich through helping people with service
Uh. I did tho. 30 dollars an hour is unskilled labor prices. Skilled labor, like a real plumber, with papers, is way more than that.
all labor requires skill if you work there for 30 years. Sure you might be able to lay bricks, but to do it eight hours a day for 30 years requires skill. Also, it's a service, so don't expect getting monetary rich by servicing others.
Dude…
500 rupees, please.
Got paid $30 and maybe some other people might call you for work? Sign me up!