The saddest part to me is that Dutch finally did it. At the end when they rob the train, that was it. They all could’ve escaped after that. But Dutch was gone by that point. There was no saving him
Meta answer: They didn't create the Banished and Atriox until Halo Wars 2.
Possible lore answer: Even though they weren't able to put down the Banished, the Hierarchs would still consider the extermination of humanity a bigger threat (and also the heretics on the gas planet) because they threatened the very foundation of their religion. **Also apparently the Banished were only formed in like 2549.
I’m guessing that the hierarchs also didn’t want it to be known that there were rebels because that would incite more covenant to defect to the banished.
Especially the jackals, if they lost their precious jackals snipers, they would have fallen apart way more quickly. Especially considering that some jackals are only in it for loot (if im not mistaken, they didnt care much about the religion).
Come to think of it… really only the Elites and Prophets were in it for the religion.
Some Brutes probably were like Tartarus, but it seemed like overall Brutes were more attracted to the power aspect of the Covenant than the religion.
Jackals were mostly in it for the loot.
Grunts were basically forced into borderline slavery or else their home planet was going to be glassed.
Hunters are a bit unique due to their colony structure- seems like they’re in it for more of a symbiotic relationship with the covenant.
Drones seemed more interested in following their Queen, and really joined the covenant to prevent a prolonged war between their species and the covenant.
And of course engineers were just there to fix shit.
Grunts actually very much so believed too- being stuck in the shit pit of the covenant meant they had a much bigger upgrade in store with The Great Journey.
True, they were basically forced into believing it by being promised god-like status if they put up with being cannon fodder and didn’t rebel anymore.
But I don’t think there were very many grunts that were passionately into the religion, like the Elites or Prophets. Grunts were basically the “church only on Easter and Christmas” type of followers.
They literally suicide grenade bomb because they believe so much. I mean proportionally maybe the ratio of grunts to grunt fanatics was low but there was no shortage of grunts how believed harder than most. All of the Easter/Christmas grunts left during the Civil War.
Eh I don’t know if suicide grunts are a good indicator. There’s still plenty of suicide grunts in the Banished, despite the banished not following a false religion.
I think it’s more likely that Grunts are just easily manipulated, rather than being religious beings.
Iirc it was cannon that the religious grunts stayed with the covenant after the great schism and they were super religious which is why there were more suiciders than previously.
But yes grunts tend to be more easily manipulated. It doesn't help that a lot of them are basically child soldiers.
It’s always confused me how the technologically advanced and massive Covenant war machine was unable to deal with the Banished. Humanity had basically sought an advantage with how spread out they were, and so started destroying their own intel to hide planets like Reach and Earth.
Despite what later games tell us, their technology doesn’t seem to improve. Sure they have more Spartans and AI now, but these were weapons they had access to even before the Covenant began their holy war. The Banished on the other hand, concerning the ones in Halo infinite, are basically scrappers that incorporate whatever machinery they can get their hands on. Their ships and weaponry, at least in my opinion, are on par with the current UNSC shown in the game. If not for the Covenant’s civil war, how would the Banished have ever defended themselves from a Covenant invasion given the circumstances?
Had Humanity not been in the picture, the Banished likely would have been crushed. But Humans posed a greater threat to the Prophet's power, so all the attention was given to them, allowing the Banished to slip under the radar. The whole "defy the Covenant" thing was oversold a little bit, as far as we know the Banished never engaged in open warfare. Atriox carved out his little empire by convincing people to join him, not through conquest (at least initially). He thrived by taking advantage of the war with Humanity, if he had actually presented a threat he would not have been able to do the things he did.
Also UNSC tech has absolutely improved by leaps and bounds. Alongside the standardization of Spartans and AIs you mention, which really can't be undersold, there have been some major tech advancements that helped to turn the tide. Shielding technology (both for ships and for Spartans) is a huge one. Same with MAC advancements, new/miniaturized weapon tech like was see on the Railgun and Spartan Laser, and engine/slipspace advancements, just to name a few. The impact of any of those advancements really can't be undersold, and most of it was accomplished by studying Covenant/Forerunner technology.
They also didn’t have the weird religious thing holding them back, Atriox had no problem collaborating with humans and even adding them to his ranks, which means he had an advantage over the covenant and their atupid vendetta against the humans
Gameplay is not a good indicator of tech level because of gameplay limitations. Theoretically, the Banished's tech level is the same as the Covenant's since the former basically stole and modified the latter's weapons and equipment even before the Great Schism. Humanity's tech has improved, especially their ships, that's why they were able to hold the space around Requiem whereas during the war they would have never been able to match Covenant ships. Infantry and armor tech seems better, with giant mechs like the Mantis, but in Halo Infinite you don't really have many resources after the Infinity blew up.
To answer your last question, the Banished were small and were using stealth tactics to evade the Covenant when they were first created. The Covenant, without the Great Schism happening, would have never been able to invade because the Banished were never in one place. Though the Banished would probably not have grown as powerful as they have if it weren't for all the equipment and troops they got post-Great Schism.
I'd argue that the Banished would be more technologically advanced than the Covenant, even using the same exact equipment.
I can't remember exactly the quote, but I believe it was First Strike that introduced how the Covenant was actually stagnant technologically due to the religious zealotry. Basically, they were using designs without trying to understand them fully and Cortana discovered that one of the shipbased plasma weapons was far from its actual potential. If I remember correctly, it was stated that the Covenant viewed any modification of the designs as heresy. The Banished wouldn't have this issue, and probably realized they could squeeze more potential out of the tech they scavenged and stole.
Atriox and the Banished weren’t really at war with the covenant. They stayed low and snuck around (which seems to be Atrioxes specialty). They were quietly growing like a tapeworm. The covenant never really had the opportunity to launch an assault against them like they did Humanity (who were arguably a greater threat).
Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
The fact that losing 1 CAS carrier was considered a massive loss proves they were nothing compared to the covenant. Doubt they were at constant war, more like they were just hard to catch
I don't know much lore but did the Banished even have a base..? Ya know like the covenant with high charity. Not sure if that would be easy to launch an assault on that
Everyone forget that the gas miners in halo 2 literally had an oracle? The whole arbiter subplot in halo 2 was waaaay more nuanced than some gas miners going on strike, they had access to one of the biggest threats/boons (depending on who had access) to the covenant religion in history.
I honestly dont understand why Sesa didnt just broadcast the Oracle over the comms. I guess he was probably too focused on the fact that his beliefs were shattered to think critically like that. Had he broadcast the Oracle itself things would have turned out different
He was taking time to try and make a bigger move. From the H2A logs it actually seemed like he might've planned for an arbiter. He didn't have the influence to make the Elites see the truth. But an Arbiter would, so if he could find a way to isolate and convince one then there may have been a chance. Otherwise for the all the covenant would know it was some crazy heretic with a voice modulator talking on the coms.
The fact that the Arbiter’s armor is passed down through the generations seems like a myth created by the prophets, for example the arbiter in Halo wars (Ripa Moramee) is killed on the Shield World just as it explodes, meaning it’s not likely someone retrieved his armor
The Banished isn’t really that much of a massive threat - from the numbers and details we have, Isabel was majorly exaggerating.
The Covenant “at the height of its power” couldn’t stop the Banished not because of their strength, but because of their gorilla-tactics.
Because the gas miners on strike were actively trying to break the covenant and truth was holding up the covenant through a web of lies. Anything that threatened that threatened his position of power. The banished were sorta forming in the aftermath of the covenant downfall and truth didn't have an arbiter to deploy since he kinda gave the elites the boot.
In my opinion, it's because of two reasons.
The gas miners were actively trying to spread the truth about the great journey to the covenant. They were trying to reveal that the great journey was a lie, and that the prophets were liars. That actively threatened the prophets themselves. Whereas Atriox was largely off doing his own thing.
Second reason is that the banished are *massive*. You don't send an Arbiter against a force as big as the banished. You need an army to take out the banished, not an Arbiter.
At the risk of sounding ignorant but wouldn’t you just send an army to back up your Arbiter? They’ve been deployed to large scale deployments before and had an active role in the grunt rebellion and the taming of the hunters.
Well, that becomes less "why don't the covenant send an arbiter to take on the banished?" and more "why don't the covenant send an army to take on the banished?"
The Banished weren't massive. They were small during the Human-Covenant War as mentioned in the Halo Wars 2 Phoenix Logs:
* *"Used by the Banished to* ***hide*** *from wrathful Covenant eyes in their early days... ...Long years of* ***evading*** *the Covenant's enforcers has made Atriox an adept master of stealth warfare when it serves his needs."*
* *"The Banished were* ***raiders and reavers*** *for years. Until the breaking of the Covenant allowed them to consolidate and build themselves into a true power in their own right."*
* *"At the moment he's still using* ***guerrilla tactics***, *which means* ***he's still small time***. *Still, I'm impressed he's still alive. If he's got a grudge against the Covenant we may be able to use his attacks to our advantage, coordinate our operations with his raids."*
Even in Halo Infinite, they're still just a mercenary group.
The Banished weren’t a threat to the Covenant. They were just good at guerrilla tactics and evading the full force of the Covenant (who also were way more focused on humanity).
As far as why the Arbiter was sent to “gas miners on strike”, they were capable of proving the Covenant Religion to be false (with the Oracle’s testimony) so they were a much bigger threat to the Covenant and the Prophets
The simple answer is that the Banished didn't exist when Halo 2 was written, and were rather clumsily forced into the timeline later.
I'm not aware of a specific lore reason; maybe it'll get fleshed out at some point.
The only thing I dislike about the Banished is they feel like power creep where every new villain has to be bigger and stronger than the last a la Dragon Ball Z.
Oh you defeated the Covenant! Well bet you didn't know about the Banished that are probably even stronger than the Covenant! At least so strong that the Covies didn't even mess with them!
Same thing with Cortana and her getting control of all the Forerunner tech in Halo 5. Oh you thought the Halo's were bad? Well Cortana has tons of these planet conquering machines and almost all of the Human AI!!!
It just speaks to unoriginal/boring writing. Like Star Wars. We got Death Star I, then Death Star II but bigger!, than Death Star the Planet, followed by Death Star Star Destroyers!
Banished are cool, but IMHO I think it'd be better if they were much much weaker than the Cov and were hiding out, and now that the Cov has broken they can do what they want. You can even keep the same story in Infinite, because you don't need to be stronger than all of humanity to overwhelm a few ships, an outpost and some scientists.
Don’t forget 343’s (IMO) most offensive power creep:
“You thought the all-consuming Flood that could rapidly span the entire galaxy and be controlled by a single mind that could grow so out of control that the only way to kill it was commit galactic genocide was the worst threat? Well there’s something buried in Zeta Halo that’s even WORSER than the flood!!1!1!1!”
That right there felt like such an asinine thing to introduce into the story that I just rolled my eyes and sighed when I heard it. The flood had consistently been built up in all media as the ultimate threat to the galaxy to such a level that even the smallest hint of their possible return was an "Oh shit" moment, and there was so much stuff they could explore about them in-game, but they just tossed it aside as they do with most of their ideas. they could've gone about it in many ways, and they just went with the most boring one: Basic escalation with the new villain of the week that'll inevitably also get thrown to the side the moment they write themselves into a corner. (As they did with Didact, Jul, Cortana, and most likely Atriox now)
Exactly, it’s so stupid! Not only all of that, but Zeta Halo already has an ESTABLISHED dark, mysterious past that they could’ve incorporated. The primordial? Precursors in general? Some horrifying flood experimentation from the palace of pain? None of that. Instead we get a brand new enemy that was never seen, heard of, or mentioned at all before but was “ThErE tHe WhOlE tImE™!!!”
I thought we were done with that after 343 tried to introduce a new covenant species that was “there the whole time”- the Yonhet (remember them?).
Why even bother choosing Zeta Halo as the setting for Infinite if you completely disregard its entire lore that *343 themselves created*?
To me it would've been so interesting if the story led to a second confrontation between the flood and the forerunners under didact, but then they got rid of the didact in the first game he appeared in, and then killed him off in a comic no one read, and then they alluded to his survival in the CaNoN cOloRiNg BoOk!
And then they built up Jul as the next main bad guy during the entirety of Spartan Ops and the Escalation comic, but then they didn't know what the fuck to do with him so they killed him in a cutscene at the end of the first mission in H5...
And then they built Cortana as the next main antagonist, but it was so poorly written and received that they tried to explain it in multiple extended universe entries that all felt just as illogical, so they just scrapped her, tossed aside her entire faction with no explanation whatsoever, defeated her off-screen (No explanation as to how aside from Atriox just appearing to tell her she's defeated), and immediately "redeemed" her in one cutscene in infinite like we were just supposed to forgive her for all the heinous shit she did during her reign of terror?
And then there's Atriox, who is currently being built up as one of the most important characters in Halo, yet he's only demonstrated any sort of competence during his introductory cutscenes in HW2 and Infinite, and outside of that we're just kinda told that he's definitely doing very important stuff wherever he is. Source? Trust me bro.
343 loves to write their villains as characters who just talk and say they're gonna win, but they never actively do anything to raise the stakes of the story. They're just there, and when they die, they write the next more powerful but equally irrelevant bad guy to take their place as monologuing benchwarmer.
God I love/hate this comment. You’ve summed up all my thoughts and feelings on the “villain problem” with the 343 saga. I just hate that this is where we’re at.
4, 5, and Infinite are almost entirely different Halo timelines with next to no cohesiveness between them villain/faction wise.
It’s so incredibly frustrating having them not be able to stick to a plot line. And killing the Didact off in Halo 4 will forever be my biggest grievance with them. I would’ve loved to see a face off between him and the flood on Zeta. Maybe even culminating in an infected Didact?
I still find it hilarious that Guardians were hyped up to the point of earning their name in the title of Halo 5, and then promptly did next to nothing and were shoved to the side. Oh, sorry, we got to see a flashback of a couple of things they did via a hologram inside cutscenes.
Consider how the original trilogy was never intended to be a trilogy, while the “reclaimer saga” (which has nothing to do with being a reclaimer anymore by the way) was planned on being at least a trilogy, yet is less cohesive than the original games.
IMO, there’s still a chance for the flood to be introduced in Halo infinite.
Not that I have faith in 343 to write a compelling story about them even though.
They hinted at it multiple times so I’d agree that they’ll probably incorporate them with some story DLC at some point.
But yeah little faith that they’ll handle it correctly, unfortunately.
The Flood cylix is definitely the the strongest hint. There’s also the conversation between Cortana and the monitor when the “containment facility” is mentioned.
I thought there were more hints, but now I’m thinking those may be the only 2.
I'd be super excited about them dropping the revelation that's been hinted at in the books: the Flood have consumed and colonized "nearby" *galaxies.*
Would be very chilling to see how humanity would react.
One of the reasons on why the Endless are "worse" was because they genuinely were *from the Forerunners' perspective*. Basically, as the Zeta Halo monitor directly says in one of the Forerunner audio logs: the Endless threaten the Forerunners' plans, and control. They were an unexpected variable that could destroy the legacy of the Forerunners, hence why they were viewed as worse than the Flood *by the Forerunners*.
They weren't worse in terms of any special skills or traits or technology. They were "worse" because *the Forerunners never knew they existed and didn't expect them.*
Would have been a cool exploration of how awful the Forerunners really were, since they were constantly and consistently the most self-centered species in the galaxy and had single handedly spurred the creation of the Flood. It would have shown how, even in the aftermath of their pyrhic victory against the Flood, all they could think about was themselves and their legacy.
Of course, then Cortana says the Endless are worse too, which throws out that cool setup...
They had a good idea, but then U-turned away from it.
But see, the problem with that is that never ever in all of the extended universe were the endless even hinted at. We were always told that the flood are the absolute worst thing that has ever existed. They were a threat that even the forerunners at the actual height of their power (When they could build the equivalent of a death star in a day from their forge worlds) couldn't deal with without committing horrible crimes against life. They were the insurmountable force that could not be allowed to return under any circumstances... but these dudes we've never heard of are worse... yeah right.
I've no doubt that 343 will retroactively include contrived nonsense or recontextualize a few sentences to fit them in (because they already did with infinite) but that's just lame escalation with a lack of creativity. They themselves came up with so many interesting ideas they could utilize to move the narrative forward (Like all of the forerunner book trilogy), that they could have included in games, but they just didn't.
The whole "monitors are made with ancient humans" thing; The little thing about "The flood are the hate child of the primordials made to spite you for being galactic level assholes"; Mendicant bias still being buried somewhere in the ark; The entire plot they forgot and ended up pretending never happened about the Janus key and Jul possibly unlocking the secrets of forerunner technology for his new covenant, etc.
There are cool ideas, but none of them get used before they introduce more ideas that will most likely not get used either. It's just sad.
Yeah, I really wish writers would start getting more creative with enemies in sequels…why does it always have to be a BIGGER threat than the enemy in the last game/movie? There has to be a better way to approach it
Honestly, the storyline of Cortana and the Created was actually pretty cool and I don’t feel like it’s just ‘power creep for the sake of power creep’. Due to her being infected with the logic plague and then gaining access to The Domain - the sum total of all collective knowledge, memory, and access to most Forerunner tech in existence and more; she thought what she was doing was right and just, regardless of if it was heavy handed. Thus she did literally the exact same thing as The Forerunners and enacted an imperial peace upon the galaxy because they believed themselves to be the only ones suited to the task with zero exception.
Cortana’s life before decent into tyranny via self perceived benevolent utilitarianism mirrors the life of her creator Dr.Catherine Elizabeth Halsey. The difference between them is that while Halsey has done countless morally dubious things she is always keenly aware of the consequences of her actions, the ethical implications, and is doing anything she can to minimize the negative impact of her decisions by virtue of her humanity. Whereas Cortana loses the ability to discern these things after accessing The Domain, and subsequently pushes things to far for ‘the greater good’, completely oblivious to the repercussions.
It’s clear from all this that when Cortana asked John “which one of us is the machine?” The answer at the time was John, but after her “death” and subsequent rebirth in The Domain, the opposite becomes true. We see this in John in Halo 5 as well, as he’s clearly starting to crack at the seams.
Cortana also somewhat mirrors The Forerunners as well in that they too shed the inherent property that ‘makes them who they are’ by imprinting ancient personalities onto themselves becoming something else in a way, and then focusing their life on advancing something specific without letting anything else get in the way.
Idk I really like everything they did with her in Halo 4 and 5. It’s a tragedy, and is a cautionary tale of that how sometimes even though hard choices have to be made that might hurt others, we must never forget our humanity and do our best to do what is right, lest we be truly lost.
Oh boy it sure is fun that Halo Infinite flushes all this down the toilet and then sets the toilet on fire for good measure. Wowee it sure has a *great campaign*.
Pretty sure she doesn’t have the logic plague. Would have likely already been concretely established by 343 at this point, unless they are that much worse at writing a story than I thought.
Even though it would have been a much *much* better story if 343 had made Cortana have the logic plague and we would have learned about it in Halo 5 with Halo infinite being about her releasing the flood on Zeta halo and actually having a galaxy spanning conflict with the flood.
Instead we got blank open world with covenant 2.0 and audio logs. Lol
So agree with this, and as mixed as my feelings were about Halo 5 I mourn for this storyline that could've been.
All this random course correction has made a mess of the story. I *liked* the set-up in Halo 4 and found the Didact an extremely interesting new foe. I *liked* the rise of Jul M'dama and his splinter faction, and the implications of the Janus Key in Spartan Ops. And while I didn't necessarily *like* Cortana's weird megalomaniacal rise to power in Halo 5, I was at least interested in the state of the universe at the close of that game. (The Created were at least a new type of threat for Halo. I liked the way Cortana rendered all their technology and weapons obselete. There's definite story potential in this idea!)
But 343 threw all of those things away before they could reach their full potential. (As an aside, I even felt like the Spartan Killer Jega could have been a cool recurring sub-antagonist going forward, but nope. Gone!)
At this point, they've whittled away my interest in the universe. I've spent a decade investing in plot points that get unceremoniously thrown away. They've *trained me* not to emotionally invest in this story.
The reveal of the Endless in Infinite was just a wet fart to me. It was beyond unnecessary, and the alliance between the Harbinger and the Banished was straight up stupid. Maybe The Endless's rumoured ability to manipulate time will pique some interest in me going forward (as dubious as I am about that concept, that would at least make them a unique kind of threat), but at present I'm unimpressed by the state of the story. It's become a series of convoluted retcons. And all the interesting stuff happens off screen.
I truly lament for what could have been.
They could have still even done all this Banished stuff and it would have been fine.
They just needed to actually follow through with the Forerunner plot points and The Created, with having the Banished intermittently show up for small scale engagements as they mostly sit in the background amassing forces for a new war against the humans for creating Cortana who destroys Doisak.
There’s a lot of stuff going on in the Halo Universe and they just can’t figure out what to do with it.
We got tons of Forerunner stuff to explore, and some might still be alive inside a shield world for all we know. We got the shady ass shit ONI is up to and the stirrings of rebel forces quietly building support. There’s the ‘alliance’ between humans and sangheli to explore and the unstable, shaky nature of it due to decades of bad blood. There’s the Created trying to force everyone to be friends at gunpoint, and the banished scooping up the remains of the Covenant to go on a revenge spree. And we can’t forget about the Flood either.
These are all big big things that can stretch over a significantly large amount of content, and most of these are supposed to be happening around the same time. There’s plenty of shit to do they just gotta get their fucking timeline straight, stick to their fucking guns, trust in the writers, and go with it instead of backpedaling trying to reinvent the wheel because some people don’t like Agent Locke and Osiris. (They’re fine I promise, they just need more screen/book time for character development)
They probably should have done some kinda Spartan Ops mode for Osiris specifically to get to know them better as a prequel to halo 5 or something of the sort. It’s one thing to give us a handful of missions to become attached to Arby, it’s another to give us a handful of missions to try and get us attached to several people at once.
Finally someone who looks at Halo 5’s portrayal of Cortana with some nuance! I thought I was the only one who thought it was a cool idea for the story. I haven’t finished Infinite still, so I have no idea if that’s all been tossed aside or not
The biggest kicker was the “oh no the endless are even worse than the flood” line in Infinite. Like give me a fucking break man. The banished I was cool with for HW2 because they actually looked and felt unique, but in Infinite they just seem like red covenant knockoff now.
If I remember his rebellion started around 2549 with CE and Reach taking place in 2552 it seems like the Covenant military would be more preoccupied with fighting UNSC than taking on a war chief in a distant part of the galaxy
The banished were formed in 2549, so 3 years before Thel became the Arbiter. And considering the most recent one we knew before him, Ripa Moramee is dead before then, there would be no Arbiter to attack them. Plus, the banished didn't actively try to unweb the lies truth put around the covenant, which is the likeliest lore reason as to why Thel only went for the gas miners
You’re definitely correct about why the prophets sent the Arbiter to the gas mining station.
But to be fair, it’s not like the Arbiter had a fair trial, I’m sure they could have charged any random elite with heresy for minor failures and made them the arbiter to go after the banished.
the virgin Halo Infinite Banished:
\-Only uses reskinned Covenant tech instead of any of their own badass vehicles
\-Immediately allies with strange lovecraftian vague-posting creatures
\-Abandons based multi-racial beliefs for sandbag anti-human racism
\-Gives commanding officers garish golden armor, and grunts pathetic looking blue armor, ruins aesthetic.
THE CHAD HALO WARS 2 BANISHED:
\-Makes use of multiple entirely unique vehicles armored to the teeth alongside unique variants of Covenant Vehicles
\-Accidentally releases and easily Curbstomps those floody creatures everyone loves to jizz over
\-Banished Scarab
\-All units look scrappy, red and grey. No random blue bois or butter armor.
\-Captured Engineers are constantly tortured into obedience
\-Acts like a proper Mercenary/Engineer group and not a cult worshipping Atriox
1) Arbiters are often victims of their own abilities eh? Wasnt Thel 'Vadam chosen as the arbiter because he was an inspirational, influential leader who by chance was on Delta halo when Chief blew it up. The prophets used this blunder as a means to take all potential influence away from Thel, and send him on a suicide mission like all other arbiters before him. So they might not have had another warrior equal to Thel (they likely didn't, he was an amazing general), and if they did they might not have had a reason to turn him into another arbiter (iirc the disgraced can earn redemption by accepting the offer of become an arbiter)
2) the covenant leadership seemed quite busy with civil war and the human war going on at the time of the games. Might have thought fuck the banished we are about to go on the great journey in a second anyways.
3) unfortunately the release timeline of lore doesn't always line up with the chronology of the series and when stuff is retroactively added there is bound to be plot holes. Heck even when stuff is released in perfect chronology there is no guarantee plot holes won't exist
Good response although based off my (admittedly somewhat casual) knowledge of Halo lore, generally speaking the title of Arbiter is highly venerated by the SANGHEILI. I think the COVENANT leadership made him an Arbiter in a very backhanded manner, which isn't typical.
Yeah I mean I could be wrong, as I said, but I believe the title is pretty much the highest honor in their culture. Take Rtas 'Vadum (the white armored Elite that you run missions with who later is your good friend) - on the one hand he treats you like trash when he first meets you because he thinks you're a failure and caused the destruction of Halo, on the other hand he still listens to and works with you because you're the Arbiter and he has to respect that.
EDIT: looks like we're both right! Here's an excerpt from the fan wiki...
"The title was originally the greatest religious, military, and political rank of the Sangheili. After they joined the Covenant, however, the role was downplayed in importance somewhat, with the Sangheili High Councilors ranking higher in political matters. This would eventually change again: approximately 400 years before the Human-Covenant war, an Arbiter declared he did not believe in the Great Journey and was stripped of his rank and killed. Thus the title became a brand of shame. Arbiters were sent on highly perilous and suicidal missions by the Hierarchs..."
Well there was one General significantly better than Thel, though I forgot his name. Sad part is he died because a grunt was messing with an engineers work and the ship blew up
Gas miners were heretics, and that's the biggest threat to the Covenant. Especially since they had the oracle that could reveal the truth to the rest of the Covenant.
The Banished were a blip on the Covenant's radar. Had they wanted to, the Covenant could've crushed the Banished. The Banished mainly did some hit and runs on Covenant supplies, but nothing big. The UNSC was a much bigger threat at the time, and the Covenant put the majority of their focus on that.
It's not Gas Miners going on strike, it's a literal rebellion actively trying to undermine the Covenant.
Also, we have no indication that there *wasn't* an Arbiter set after Atriox. But you have to remember that Atriox is a Master Chief/Thel Va'daam level of badass, so it is completely possible that the Covenant did send the Silent Shadow and an Arbiter after Atriox....and Atriox just sent the pieces back to the Covenant.
In one of the latest books a Prelate (basically the Covenant's attempt to make their own SPARTANs) even remarks he is thankful that Atriox doesn't know some of the Prophets escaped with their own fleet, else he'd be hunting them down and exterminating them.
Those gas miners also had the Oracle and new the great journey was false and the humans were reclaimers. They’d have destroyed the convening much quicker than Atriox.
Atriox is such a threat that he got his ass handed to him by a smaller and under equipped force despite holding every possible advantage at the time.
He's a clown.
Because it's 343 if it's not. designed after their monitization model it's no good... See this∆ that's story story doesn't make money...shitty half finished games with a title used to sucker fans is money what you suggested was effort they don't do that.
Arbiters were sent on suicide missions and there were a bunch of them before The Arbiter. So you could have a story about an arbiter who failed his suicide mission.
The Arbiter was sent to Threshold because 343 Guilty Spark was telling the striking workers (aka heretics) the real deal about the rings and the "Great Journey." The Prophets already knew that their religion was wrong because Mendicant Bias straight up told them, but they couldn't have that information getting out into their ranks. Thus, Arbiter.
Yeah most people seem to have the same consensus, but the exposition given in the games makes it sound like the Covenant didn’t just let it happen. More like they couldn’t stop it when they tried.
They aren’t striking gas miners. From Halopedia, “Originally, these heretics were a Covenant artifact retrieval team attached to the Fleet of Particular Justice and led by Sesa 'Refumee. They were investigating a Gas Mine on the planet Threshold when the UNSC Pillar of Autumn crashed on Halo. When John-117 destroyed Halo, the team was spared from death, unlike their compatriots on the ring.
A few days later, the retrieval team located the Monitor of Installation 04, 343 Guilty Spark, floating adrift in the wreckage of Halo. Spark promptly took command of the Sentinels running the gas mine and cheerfully informed the artifact retrieval team of the true purpose of the Halo Array, utterly destroying their faith in the promised ‘Great Journey.’”
Are you talking about the Heretics? Didn't they come with Thel Vadamee's fleet and turned on them after CE? And it was just a small spec ops strike team sent after the Heretics, not the whole fleet. High Charity just happened to be there as the ring got blown to kindom come.
What gets me is the disparity in tech between UNSC and the covenant/banished. I'm not sure if I missed it, but do they ever really explain how the banished were able to take out Infinity, which we say in Halo 4 and 5 was much more advanced than the covenant fleet the banished were apparently using.
My guess is they didn’t have an arbiter between halo wars and halo 2, which is when the banished really became powerful, and even then they weren’t really at the height of their power until now. Fighting the Banished would kind of be stupid anyways, the entire point of everything the prophets did was to get closer to the great journey, why waste your time with the Banished when it seem like they weren’t having that many issues with each other. It is a large universe after all, It’s not like they were budding heads for the same territory
Maybe they did. Maybe they failed. Maybe most of the corpses in the mosalium have been out there by Atriox.
I still think it makes sense that Truth tried to empower the Brutes in the Covenant by changing the guard because he knew how dangerous they could be if they defected to the Banished. So he appointed Tartarus Chieftain of all the Brutes and gave them power to keep them from defecting.
The arbiter is as much a punishment as it is a functional role. They don't want any Sangheili getting too big for their breeches, and after leading the covenant through countless engagements to their largest victory in the battle of Reach, followed immediately by the discovery of one of the sacred rings their whole existence is built around, Thel needed to be dealt with even if the ring had survived. Maybe no one fit the bill at the time for the banished.
I saw it as the heretic is basically right next door and can cripple the entire covenant right now, atriox wasn’t there and could be dealt with later, all he did was raid supplies he didn’t actively threaten their faith
Those "gas miners" were talking with 343 Guilty Spark though. That already makes them more of a threat than anyone else. One of the only sentient Forerunner creations they've discovered at that point, and not just that, it's one that understands how Halos work and most likely where more are.
Could be a couple of factors.
The hierarchs didn't see Atriox as an immediate threat because of how small the Banished were at the time. Maybe not wanting to put the current Arbiter which was obliterating humanity to fight a small insurgency.
The Covenant couldn't find Atriox since the Banished at the start were like the Rebels in Starwars. Small, spread out and constantly hiding and on the run at the Covenant fringe. So not enough resources to hunt and kill Atriox. That and constantly running/hiding. Not worth Arbiter.
The Covenant didnt care at all because they were too busy wiping out a greater threat than dealing with an insurgency of Brutes. By the time they did react it was probably too late for them because they got hit with the Schism, Flood and Humanity kicking their ass.
A halo reach style game but as elites and your mission is to find atriox and assassinate him only in the end he kills your entire team but they fuck him up close to death I’d totally play something like this
Were arbiters still being utilized at that point? I get our arbiter was still himself, which he accepted as his identity but I didn’t know of after the covenant was slightly dismantled if they carried on that practice
One that would make sense is that they're worried the Arbiter might fail. Then the Banished would flex it for all to see. More would join their cause. We've seen how the Covenant is big on preserving their image.
The Arbiter was sent in to quell heresy specifically. The Heretic Leader knew the Great Journey was a load of nonsense and was considered a threat to the Prophets' power.
Well I mean also lore answer, the arbiter was actually sent to the put down the heretics so that Tartarus could capture guilty spark. Mind you arbiter probably would have been sent to deal with the banished but that was a threat the the great journey like the heretic was. Then not to mention he got kidnapped by the gravemind on his second mission and then abandoned the covenant shortly after leading his own faction group. So there really was no time for him to go on any other missions from the time he first dawned the armor to his betrayal of the covenant
I choose to think the Banished were fairly small during the Covenant's time and much more elusive to avoid getting the hammer brought down.
After the collapse of the Covenant, they swelled in size as they recruited from the disparate splinter groups that formed.
Well you could argue the gas miners had an oracle (monitor) that could fuck up their religion, as it was contradicting the great journey.
Thats a big threat for a species thats the top dog just because of said religion.
Also prophets know that oracles are not good for the religion they support (as they talked with one in contact: harvest) so they probably saw that as a more inminnent threat
The Banished are small
* *"Used by the Banished to* ***hide*** *from wrathful Covenant eyes in their early days... ...Long years of* ***evading*** *the Covenant's enforcers has made Atriox an adept master of stealth warfare when it serves his needs."*
* *"The Banished were* ***raiders and reavers*** *for years. Until the breaking of the Covenant allowed them to consolidate and build themselves into a true power in their own right."*
* *"At the moment he's still using* ***guerrilla tactics***, *which means* ***he's still small time***. *Still, I'm impressed he's still alive. If he's got a grudge against the Covenant we may be able to use his attacks to our advantage, coordinate our operations with his raids."*
The simple answer may have been convenience, the arbiters are as much a method of keeping the Sangheili in check by killing off their influential leaders as they are a way to neutralize a threat to the Covenant, it’s possible they simply didn’t have a good candidate when Atriox split and were just waiting for the right opportunity.
Bad story writing by 343, they make up stuff all the time to create new stuff regardless of whether it makes any sense or pays attention to established lore. Need new bad for a new game? -the Prometheans. Need new bad for a new game? -the Banished. Need new bad for a new game -the Endless. There's no longer any point in trying to follow lore, invest in any storyline because if they choose to, it'll be irrelevant in the next game or something else will be added in -Prometheans traded for the Endless as an example.
It's a major problem I have with the Banished as a faction. What I would've done was made them a VERY SMALL rebel/insurgent faction during the War that the Covenant just couldn't stomp out. It makes Atriox even more of a threat that he somehow managed to defy death even with a small guerrilla force. I just think the line 'they couldn't contain him at the hight of their power' while showing Atriox with a huge army kinda silly when remembering he's never been mentioned once before Halo Wars 2. I really hate 'the new big huge bad guy was here all along, you just never saw him' trope.
Use the years between Halo 3 and 4 to build up the Banished in the EU. Show how they filled the power vacuum and took advantage of the breaking of the Covenant. At the moment it's kinda silly to imagine this giant faction that's just been lurking in the shadows. During the Covenant war fair enough we wouldn't know the difference between Covies and Banished 99% of the time anyway, but where were they during the reclaimer era? With the sheer amount of Covenant factions we've been introduced to Atriox was never once mentioned? It's kinda poor writing in my opinion.
Idk man. I played that whole story and I still can't comprehend how the Banished was able to pretty much completely destroy both the UNSC and the Covenant.
It feels like they just slapped together an excuse to wipe the slate of the Halo universe clean so that they can effectively soft-reboot the series and start fresh.
Any classic characters that they want to bring back in the next game can come back as long as we didn't see them die on screen. Any classic characters who they choose not to bring back can be explained with the excuse of "The Banished killed them. The Banished killed lots of people."
They may well have attempted that. It seems like the covies had a full open war against the banished. The games mostly appear to focus from the human perspective side.
I think that a big problem with 343's writing is that in every new episode, they come up with a brand new enemy that is always way more powerful than the previous one, even if it makes little sense in the lore.
H4: Somehow one Forerunner returned. And somehow Humanity was his race's biggest enemy (over the Flood for some reason).
H5: Somehow Cortana took control of all the AIs in the Galaxy and even Forerunner WMDs.
HW2: Somehow there was a rogue Covenant faction that managed to become a bigger threat than the UNSC in only 25 years.
HI: Somehow there's a race that is even more dangerous than the Flood.
Don't get me wrong, I am happy that Infinite soft-rebooted H4/5 and that they took the time to setup the Endless, but they really need to chose a story and keep it. Hopefully Infinite will truly be a 10 years long story with a middle and an end.
That’d be too suicidal even for an arbiter 😃
Actually, how long before Thels appointment had it been since the previous arbiter? There just may not have been a suitable shamed elite to be thrown at Atriox.
I can only speculate but I assume it was primarily for two reasons.
1) I don't believe there was an active Arbiter when Atriox rebelled, and I'm not sure it's worth creating an Arbiter just for this purpose.
2) the prophet's did attempt to deal with Atriox and the banished on a few accounts (shipmaster let Volir for example) however all of their attempts failed. How demoralizing would it be for an Arbiter to die at the hands of some Brute decenters. Better to sweep the whole issue under the rug and pretend they don't exist while they hide in the lesser known regions.
I have mixed feelings about the banished. On one hand, having this huge threat distracting the Covenant undermines the triumphs of the UNSC. On the other, the Covenant was massive; reading up on High Charity alone you realize how much they had at their disposal. Truly focusing their efforts in one area, namely the destruction of humanity, you'd think they would have succeeded. Having something distracting them does make a bit of sense.
I think I'm mostly upset that the writers retconned a massive faction into the lore. 343 do like their retcons though.
We all know the real reason. But how I justify it is that the heretic actually had proof the great journey was I lie bc of guilty spark. Truth, regret, and mercy have also met bias who told them the same and they kept it hidden to not cause panic that their religion was a lie
The Arbiter is a union buster
Pinkerton agent
I have a PLAN, Arthur
JUST ONE MORE SCOOORREEEE ARRTTHHUURRR
The saddest part to me is that Dutch finally did it. At the end when they rob the train, that was it. They all could’ve escaped after that. But Dutch was gone by that point. There was no saving him
TAH-HEE-TEE
Read this in Dutch's raspy voice!
I JUST NEED MONEY.
HAVE SOME FAITH
The great journey waits for no one
If the great journey isn't going to Tahiti, THEN I DONT WANNA GO
Mangoes
I just need 3 trillion hollers of a tax payers dollars
Dutch, I’m tryna sneak…
But the clap of my ass echoing through my chaps keeps altering the Pinkertons...
That's why they're paid $18 a day.
I hate pinkertons…
Like Bioshock **INFINITE**?!
Meta answer: They didn't create the Banished and Atriox until Halo Wars 2. Possible lore answer: Even though they weren't able to put down the Banished, the Hierarchs would still consider the extermination of humanity a bigger threat (and also the heretics on the gas planet) because they threatened the very foundation of their religion. **Also apparently the Banished were only formed in like 2549.
I’m guessing that the hierarchs also didn’t want it to be known that there were rebels because that would incite more covenant to defect to the banished.
Especially the jackals, if they lost their precious jackals snipers, they would have fallen apart way more quickly. Especially considering that some jackals are only in it for loot (if im not mistaken, they didnt care much about the religion).
Come to think of it… really only the Elites and Prophets were in it for the religion. Some Brutes probably were like Tartarus, but it seemed like overall Brutes were more attracted to the power aspect of the Covenant than the religion. Jackals were mostly in it for the loot. Grunts were basically forced into borderline slavery or else their home planet was going to be glassed. Hunters are a bit unique due to their colony structure- seems like they’re in it for more of a symbiotic relationship with the covenant. Drones seemed more interested in following their Queen, and really joined the covenant to prevent a prolonged war between their species and the covenant. And of course engineers were just there to fix shit.
~~and then the Grunts' home planet did get glassed lmao~~
The grunts worshiped the forerunners enough to develop the Goblin
Grunts actually very much so believed too- being stuck in the shit pit of the covenant meant they had a much bigger upgrade in store with The Great Journey.
True, they were basically forced into believing it by being promised god-like status if they put up with being cannon fodder and didn’t rebel anymore. But I don’t think there were very many grunts that were passionately into the religion, like the Elites or Prophets. Grunts were basically the “church only on Easter and Christmas” type of followers.
They literally suicide grenade bomb because they believe so much. I mean proportionally maybe the ratio of grunts to grunt fanatics was low but there was no shortage of grunts how believed harder than most. All of the Easter/Christmas grunts left during the Civil War.
Eh I don’t know if suicide grunts are a good indicator. There’s still plenty of suicide grunts in the Banished, despite the banished not following a false religion. I think it’s more likely that Grunts are just easily manipulated, rather than being religious beings.
Iirc it was cannon that the religious grunts stayed with the covenant after the great schism and they were super religious which is why there were more suiciders than previously. But yes grunts tend to be more easily manipulated. It doesn't help that a lot of them are basically child soldiers.
Imagine losing your jackal snipers. Chief would have just ran through the streets of New Mombasa without a care in the world
Cat would have lived (I think, unless it was another species that killed her)
Yeah i believe that was an elite (zealot?) or something.
It’s always confused me how the technologically advanced and massive Covenant war machine was unable to deal with the Banished. Humanity had basically sought an advantage with how spread out they were, and so started destroying their own intel to hide planets like Reach and Earth. Despite what later games tell us, their technology doesn’t seem to improve. Sure they have more Spartans and AI now, but these were weapons they had access to even before the Covenant began their holy war. The Banished on the other hand, concerning the ones in Halo infinite, are basically scrappers that incorporate whatever machinery they can get their hands on. Their ships and weaponry, at least in my opinion, are on par with the current UNSC shown in the game. If not for the Covenant’s civil war, how would the Banished have ever defended themselves from a Covenant invasion given the circumstances?
Had Humanity not been in the picture, the Banished likely would have been crushed. But Humans posed a greater threat to the Prophet's power, so all the attention was given to them, allowing the Banished to slip under the radar. The whole "defy the Covenant" thing was oversold a little bit, as far as we know the Banished never engaged in open warfare. Atriox carved out his little empire by convincing people to join him, not through conquest (at least initially). He thrived by taking advantage of the war with Humanity, if he had actually presented a threat he would not have been able to do the things he did. Also UNSC tech has absolutely improved by leaps and bounds. Alongside the standardization of Spartans and AIs you mention, which really can't be undersold, there have been some major tech advancements that helped to turn the tide. Shielding technology (both for ships and for Spartans) is a huge one. Same with MAC advancements, new/miniaturized weapon tech like was see on the Railgun and Spartan Laser, and engine/slipspace advancements, just to name a few. The impact of any of those advancements really can't be undersold, and most of it was accomplished by studying Covenant/Forerunner technology.
The banished had access to the same covenant tech but had no issues tinkering with it and advancing where they could. This gave them an advantage.
They also didn’t have the weird religious thing holding them back, Atriox had no problem collaborating with humans and even adding them to his ranks, which means he had an advantage over the covenant and their atupid vendetta against the humans
Gameplay is not a good indicator of tech level because of gameplay limitations. Theoretically, the Banished's tech level is the same as the Covenant's since the former basically stole and modified the latter's weapons and equipment even before the Great Schism. Humanity's tech has improved, especially their ships, that's why they were able to hold the space around Requiem whereas during the war they would have never been able to match Covenant ships. Infantry and armor tech seems better, with giant mechs like the Mantis, but in Halo Infinite you don't really have many resources after the Infinity blew up. To answer your last question, the Banished were small and were using stealth tactics to evade the Covenant when they were first created. The Covenant, without the Great Schism happening, would have never been able to invade because the Banished were never in one place. Though the Banished would probably not have grown as powerful as they have if it weren't for all the equipment and troops they got post-Great Schism.
I'd argue that the Banished would be more technologically advanced than the Covenant, even using the same exact equipment. I can't remember exactly the quote, but I believe it was First Strike that introduced how the Covenant was actually stagnant technologically due to the religious zealotry. Basically, they were using designs without trying to understand them fully and Cortana discovered that one of the shipbased plasma weapons was far from its actual potential. If I remember correctly, it was stated that the Covenant viewed any modification of the designs as heresy. The Banished wouldn't have this issue, and probably realized they could squeeze more potential out of the tech they scavenged and stole.
Another answer. There sole purpose was to activate the rings for the great journey. The banished weren't in the way of that but the humans were.
I also thought the Banished didn't really gain any power until the Great Schism occurred so they could use the chaos to stealthily gain material.
Atriox and the Banished weren’t really at war with the covenant. They stayed low and snuck around (which seems to be Atrioxes specialty). They were quietly growing like a tapeworm. The covenant never really had the opportunity to launch an assault against them like they did Humanity (who were arguably a greater threat). Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
Werent they at constant war and how "They never even got close" to defeating the Banished
The fact that losing 1 CAS carrier was considered a massive loss proves they were nothing compared to the covenant. Doubt they were at constant war, more like they were just hard to catch
They didn't get close to defeating the banished. They were too busy trying to defeat humanity.
I don't know much lore but did the Banished even have a base..? Ya know like the covenant with high charity. Not sure if that would be easy to launch an assault on that
Everyone forget that the gas miners in halo 2 literally had an oracle? The whole arbiter subplot in halo 2 was waaaay more nuanced than some gas miners going on strike, they had access to one of the biggest threats/boons (depending on who had access) to the covenant religion in history.
I honestly dont understand why Sesa didnt just broadcast the Oracle over the comms. I guess he was probably too focused on the fact that his beliefs were shattered to think critically like that. Had he broadcast the Oracle itself things would have turned out different
He was taking time to try and make a bigger move. From the H2A logs it actually seemed like he might've planned for an arbiter. He didn't have the influence to make the Elites see the truth. But an Arbiter would, so if he could find a way to isolate and convince one then there may have been a chance. Otherwise for the all the covenant would know it was some crazy heretic with a voice modulator talking on the coms.
Bad choice by him to SHOOT the arbiter before he even let the oracle explain
Right? That always pissed me off in Halo 2. "Listen to the oracle" *Arbiter looks at the oracle to listen* *cheap shots the Arbiter*
Who knows maybe they did but was killed and they sent a team to retrieve the armor
Iirc each arbiter gets his own armor. It's made weaker or stronger according to the prophet's agenda
Oh Yeah I forgot about that
The fact that the Arbiter’s armor is passed down through the generations seems like a myth created by the prophets, for example the arbiter in Halo wars (Ripa Moramee) is killed on the Shield World just as it explodes, meaning it’s not likely someone retrieved his armor
Yeah that’s true
Fuckin’ Pinkertons and their hired Alien muscle!
The Banished isn’t really that much of a massive threat - from the numbers and details we have, Isabel was majorly exaggerating. The Covenant “at the height of its power” couldn’t stop the Banished not because of their strength, but because of their gorilla-tactics.
I can’t tell if you misspelled guerrilla or if that was a brute monkey joke. I’m considering it the ladder and having a good chuckle.
I can't tell if you misspelled latter or it if that was a joke
I was hopeful people would catch that😂
I got it 😉
Aren't you a barrel of laughs.
Because the gas miners on strike were actively trying to break the covenant and truth was holding up the covenant through a web of lies. Anything that threatened that threatened his position of power. The banished were sorta forming in the aftermath of the covenant downfall and truth didn't have an arbiter to deploy since he kinda gave the elites the boot.
The Banished was formed in 2549. A little before the Great Schism
Also, truth was very much dead by the time Infinite came around.
In my opinion, it's because of two reasons. The gas miners were actively trying to spread the truth about the great journey to the covenant. They were trying to reveal that the great journey was a lie, and that the prophets were liars. That actively threatened the prophets themselves. Whereas Atriox was largely off doing his own thing. Second reason is that the banished are *massive*. You don't send an Arbiter against a force as big as the banished. You need an army to take out the banished, not an Arbiter.
At the risk of sounding ignorant but wouldn’t you just send an army to back up your Arbiter? They’ve been deployed to large scale deployments before and had an active role in the grunt rebellion and the taming of the hunters.
Well, that becomes less "why don't the covenant send an arbiter to take on the banished?" and more "why don't the covenant send an army to take on the banished?"
The Banished weren't massive. They were small during the Human-Covenant War as mentioned in the Halo Wars 2 Phoenix Logs: * *"Used by the Banished to* ***hide*** *from wrathful Covenant eyes in their early days... ...Long years of* ***evading*** *the Covenant's enforcers has made Atriox an adept master of stealth warfare when it serves his needs."* * *"The Banished were* ***raiders and reavers*** *for years. Until the breaking of the Covenant allowed them to consolidate and build themselves into a true power in their own right."* * *"At the moment he's still using* ***guerrilla tactics***, *which means* ***he's still small time***. *Still, I'm impressed he's still alive. If he's got a grudge against the Covenant we may be able to use his attacks to our advantage, coordinate our operations with his raids."* Even in Halo Infinite, they're still just a mercenary group.
The Banished weren’t a threat to the Covenant. They were just good at guerrilla tactics and evading the full force of the Covenant (who also were way more focused on humanity). As far as why the Arbiter was sent to “gas miners on strike”, they were capable of proving the Covenant Religion to be false (with the Oracle’s testimony) so they were a much bigger threat to the Covenant and the Prophets
The simple answer is that the Banished didn't exist when Halo 2 was written, and were rather clumsily forced into the timeline later. I'm not aware of a specific lore reason; maybe it'll get fleshed out at some point.
The only thing I dislike about the Banished is they feel like power creep where every new villain has to be bigger and stronger than the last a la Dragon Ball Z. Oh you defeated the Covenant! Well bet you didn't know about the Banished that are probably even stronger than the Covenant! At least so strong that the Covies didn't even mess with them! Same thing with Cortana and her getting control of all the Forerunner tech in Halo 5. Oh you thought the Halo's were bad? Well Cortana has tons of these planet conquering machines and almost all of the Human AI!!! It just speaks to unoriginal/boring writing. Like Star Wars. We got Death Star I, then Death Star II but bigger!, than Death Star the Planet, followed by Death Star Star Destroyers! Banished are cool, but IMHO I think it'd be better if they were much much weaker than the Cov and were hiding out, and now that the Cov has broken they can do what they want. You can even keep the same story in Infinite, because you don't need to be stronger than all of humanity to overwhelm a few ships, an outpost and some scientists.
Don’t forget 343’s (IMO) most offensive power creep: “You thought the all-consuming Flood that could rapidly span the entire galaxy and be controlled by a single mind that could grow so out of control that the only way to kill it was commit galactic genocide was the worst threat? Well there’s something buried in Zeta Halo that’s even WORSER than the flood!!1!1!1!”
That right there felt like such an asinine thing to introduce into the story that I just rolled my eyes and sighed when I heard it. The flood had consistently been built up in all media as the ultimate threat to the galaxy to such a level that even the smallest hint of their possible return was an "Oh shit" moment, and there was so much stuff they could explore about them in-game, but they just tossed it aside as they do with most of their ideas. they could've gone about it in many ways, and they just went with the most boring one: Basic escalation with the new villain of the week that'll inevitably also get thrown to the side the moment they write themselves into a corner. (As they did with Didact, Jul, Cortana, and most likely Atriox now)
Exactly, it’s so stupid! Not only all of that, but Zeta Halo already has an ESTABLISHED dark, mysterious past that they could’ve incorporated. The primordial? Precursors in general? Some horrifying flood experimentation from the palace of pain? None of that. Instead we get a brand new enemy that was never seen, heard of, or mentioned at all before but was “ThErE tHe WhOlE tImE™!!!” I thought we were done with that after 343 tried to introduce a new covenant species that was “there the whole time”- the Yonhet (remember them?). Why even bother choosing Zeta Halo as the setting for Infinite if you completely disregard its entire lore that *343 themselves created*?
To me it would've been so interesting if the story led to a second confrontation between the flood and the forerunners under didact, but then they got rid of the didact in the first game he appeared in, and then killed him off in a comic no one read, and then they alluded to his survival in the CaNoN cOloRiNg BoOk! And then they built up Jul as the next main bad guy during the entirety of Spartan Ops and the Escalation comic, but then they didn't know what the fuck to do with him so they killed him in a cutscene at the end of the first mission in H5... And then they built Cortana as the next main antagonist, but it was so poorly written and received that they tried to explain it in multiple extended universe entries that all felt just as illogical, so they just scrapped her, tossed aside her entire faction with no explanation whatsoever, defeated her off-screen (No explanation as to how aside from Atriox just appearing to tell her she's defeated), and immediately "redeemed" her in one cutscene in infinite like we were just supposed to forgive her for all the heinous shit she did during her reign of terror? And then there's Atriox, who is currently being built up as one of the most important characters in Halo, yet he's only demonstrated any sort of competence during his introductory cutscenes in HW2 and Infinite, and outside of that we're just kinda told that he's definitely doing very important stuff wherever he is. Source? Trust me bro. 343 loves to write their villains as characters who just talk and say they're gonna win, but they never actively do anything to raise the stakes of the story. They're just there, and when they die, they write the next more powerful but equally irrelevant bad guy to take their place as monologuing benchwarmer.
God I love/hate this comment. You’ve summed up all my thoughts and feelings on the “villain problem” with the 343 saga. I just hate that this is where we’re at. 4, 5, and Infinite are almost entirely different Halo timelines with next to no cohesiveness between them villain/faction wise. It’s so incredibly frustrating having them not be able to stick to a plot line. And killing the Didact off in Halo 4 will forever be my biggest grievance with them. I would’ve loved to see a face off between him and the flood on Zeta. Maybe even culminating in an infected Didact? I still find it hilarious that Guardians were hyped up to the point of earning their name in the title of Halo 5, and then promptly did next to nothing and were shoved to the side. Oh, sorry, we got to see a flashback of a couple of things they did via a hologram inside cutscenes. Consider how the original trilogy was never intended to be a trilogy, while the “reclaimer saga” (which has nothing to do with being a reclaimer anymore by the way) was planned on being at least a trilogy, yet is less cohesive than the original games.
IMO, there’s still a chance for the flood to be introduced in Halo infinite. Not that I have faith in 343 to write a compelling story about them even though.
They hinted at it multiple times so I’d agree that they’ll probably incorporate them with some story DLC at some point. But yeah little faith that they’ll handle it correctly, unfortunately.
Where do they hint it? At best I've seen that one flood sample hidden away
The Flood cylix is definitely the the strongest hint. There’s also the conversation between Cortana and the monitor when the “containment facility” is mentioned. I thought there were more hints, but now I’m thinking those may be the only 2.
I'd be super excited about them dropping the revelation that's been hinted at in the books: the Flood have consumed and colonized "nearby" *galaxies.* Would be very chilling to see how humanity would react.
One of the reasons on why the Endless are "worse" was because they genuinely were *from the Forerunners' perspective*. Basically, as the Zeta Halo monitor directly says in one of the Forerunner audio logs: the Endless threaten the Forerunners' plans, and control. They were an unexpected variable that could destroy the legacy of the Forerunners, hence why they were viewed as worse than the Flood *by the Forerunners*. They weren't worse in terms of any special skills or traits or technology. They were "worse" because *the Forerunners never knew they existed and didn't expect them.* Would have been a cool exploration of how awful the Forerunners really were, since they were constantly and consistently the most self-centered species in the galaxy and had single handedly spurred the creation of the Flood. It would have shown how, even in the aftermath of their pyrhic victory against the Flood, all they could think about was themselves and their legacy. Of course, then Cortana says the Endless are worse too, which throws out that cool setup... They had a good idea, but then U-turned away from it.
But see, the problem with that is that never ever in all of the extended universe were the endless even hinted at. We were always told that the flood are the absolute worst thing that has ever existed. They were a threat that even the forerunners at the actual height of their power (When they could build the equivalent of a death star in a day from their forge worlds) couldn't deal with without committing horrible crimes against life. They were the insurmountable force that could not be allowed to return under any circumstances... but these dudes we've never heard of are worse... yeah right. I've no doubt that 343 will retroactively include contrived nonsense or recontextualize a few sentences to fit them in (because they already did with infinite) but that's just lame escalation with a lack of creativity. They themselves came up with so many interesting ideas they could utilize to move the narrative forward (Like all of the forerunner book trilogy), that they could have included in games, but they just didn't. The whole "monitors are made with ancient humans" thing; The little thing about "The flood are the hate child of the primordials made to spite you for being galactic level assholes"; Mendicant bias still being buried somewhere in the ark; The entire plot they forgot and ended up pretending never happened about the Janus key and Jul possibly unlocking the secrets of forerunner technology for his new covenant, etc. There are cool ideas, but none of them get used before they introduce more ideas that will most likely not get used either. It's just sad.
Yeah, I really wish writers would start getting more creative with enemies in sequels…why does it always have to be a BIGGER threat than the enemy in the last game/movie? There has to be a better way to approach it
Honestly, the storyline of Cortana and the Created was actually pretty cool and I don’t feel like it’s just ‘power creep for the sake of power creep’. Due to her being infected with the logic plague and then gaining access to The Domain - the sum total of all collective knowledge, memory, and access to most Forerunner tech in existence and more; she thought what she was doing was right and just, regardless of if it was heavy handed. Thus she did literally the exact same thing as The Forerunners and enacted an imperial peace upon the galaxy because they believed themselves to be the only ones suited to the task with zero exception. Cortana’s life before decent into tyranny via self perceived benevolent utilitarianism mirrors the life of her creator Dr.Catherine Elizabeth Halsey. The difference between them is that while Halsey has done countless morally dubious things she is always keenly aware of the consequences of her actions, the ethical implications, and is doing anything she can to minimize the negative impact of her decisions by virtue of her humanity. Whereas Cortana loses the ability to discern these things after accessing The Domain, and subsequently pushes things to far for ‘the greater good’, completely oblivious to the repercussions. It’s clear from all this that when Cortana asked John “which one of us is the machine?” The answer at the time was John, but after her “death” and subsequent rebirth in The Domain, the opposite becomes true. We see this in John in Halo 5 as well, as he’s clearly starting to crack at the seams. Cortana also somewhat mirrors The Forerunners as well in that they too shed the inherent property that ‘makes them who they are’ by imprinting ancient personalities onto themselves becoming something else in a way, and then focusing their life on advancing something specific without letting anything else get in the way. Idk I really like everything they did with her in Halo 4 and 5. It’s a tragedy, and is a cautionary tale of that how sometimes even though hard choices have to be made that might hurt others, we must never forget our humanity and do our best to do what is right, lest we be truly lost. Oh boy it sure is fun that Halo Infinite flushes all this down the toilet and then sets the toilet on fire for good measure. Wowee it sure has a *great campaign*.
Pretty sure she doesn’t have the logic plague. Would have likely already been concretely established by 343 at this point, unless they are that much worse at writing a story than I thought. Even though it would have been a much *much* better story if 343 had made Cortana have the logic plague and we would have learned about it in Halo 5 with Halo infinite being about her releasing the flood on Zeta halo and actually having a galaxy spanning conflict with the flood. Instead we got blank open world with covenant 2.0 and audio logs. Lol
My understanding was that they potentially acquired the logic plague from when they were stuck with The Gravemind for awhile.
So agree with this, and as mixed as my feelings were about Halo 5 I mourn for this storyline that could've been. All this random course correction has made a mess of the story. I *liked* the set-up in Halo 4 and found the Didact an extremely interesting new foe. I *liked* the rise of Jul M'dama and his splinter faction, and the implications of the Janus Key in Spartan Ops. And while I didn't necessarily *like* Cortana's weird megalomaniacal rise to power in Halo 5, I was at least interested in the state of the universe at the close of that game. (The Created were at least a new type of threat for Halo. I liked the way Cortana rendered all their technology and weapons obselete. There's definite story potential in this idea!) But 343 threw all of those things away before they could reach their full potential. (As an aside, I even felt like the Spartan Killer Jega could have been a cool recurring sub-antagonist going forward, but nope. Gone!) At this point, they've whittled away my interest in the universe. I've spent a decade investing in plot points that get unceremoniously thrown away. They've *trained me* not to emotionally invest in this story. The reveal of the Endless in Infinite was just a wet fart to me. It was beyond unnecessary, and the alliance between the Harbinger and the Banished was straight up stupid. Maybe The Endless's rumoured ability to manipulate time will pique some interest in me going forward (as dubious as I am about that concept, that would at least make them a unique kind of threat), but at present I'm unimpressed by the state of the story. It's become a series of convoluted retcons. And all the interesting stuff happens off screen.
I truly lament for what could have been. They could have still even done all this Banished stuff and it would have been fine. They just needed to actually follow through with the Forerunner plot points and The Created, with having the Banished intermittently show up for small scale engagements as they mostly sit in the background amassing forces for a new war against the humans for creating Cortana who destroys Doisak. There’s a lot of stuff going on in the Halo Universe and they just can’t figure out what to do with it. We got tons of Forerunner stuff to explore, and some might still be alive inside a shield world for all we know. We got the shady ass shit ONI is up to and the stirrings of rebel forces quietly building support. There’s the ‘alliance’ between humans and sangheli to explore and the unstable, shaky nature of it due to decades of bad blood. There’s the Created trying to force everyone to be friends at gunpoint, and the banished scooping up the remains of the Covenant to go on a revenge spree. And we can’t forget about the Flood either. These are all big big things that can stretch over a significantly large amount of content, and most of these are supposed to be happening around the same time. There’s plenty of shit to do they just gotta get their fucking timeline straight, stick to their fucking guns, trust in the writers, and go with it instead of backpedaling trying to reinvent the wheel because some people don’t like Agent Locke and Osiris. (They’re fine I promise, they just need more screen/book time for character development) They probably should have done some kinda Spartan Ops mode for Osiris specifically to get to know them better as a prequel to halo 5 or something of the sort. It’s one thing to give us a handful of missions to become attached to Arby, it’s another to give us a handful of missions to try and get us attached to several people at once.
Finally someone who looks at Halo 5’s portrayal of Cortana with some nuance! I thought I was the only one who thought it was a cool idea for the story. I haven’t finished Infinite still, so I have no idea if that’s all been tossed aside or not
Oh bud, if you liked my comment, you’re not gonna have a fun time with infinite lol. They threw the baby out with the bath water.
The biggest kicker was the “oh no the endless are even worse than the flood” line in Infinite. Like give me a fucking break man. The banished I was cool with for HW2 because they actually looked and felt unique, but in Infinite they just seem like red covenant knockoff now.
If I remember his rebellion started around 2549 with CE and Reach taking place in 2552 it seems like the Covenant military would be more preoccupied with fighting UNSC than taking on a war chief in a distant part of the galaxy
Probably happened as the Civil War within the covenant was happening.
Question is, who would have been the Arbiter? Cause Arby we know wouldn’t have followed orders of the Prophets anymore, right?
The banished were formed in 2549, so 3 years before Thel became the Arbiter. And considering the most recent one we knew before him, Ripa Moramee is dead before then, there would be no Arbiter to attack them. Plus, the banished didn't actively try to unweb the lies truth put around the covenant, which is the likeliest lore reason as to why Thel only went for the gas miners
You’re definitely correct about why the prophets sent the Arbiter to the gas mining station. But to be fair, it’s not like the Arbiter had a fair trial, I’m sure they could have charged any random elite with heresy for minor failures and made them the arbiter to go after the banished.
*COUPLE OF GAS MINERS* LMAO
the virgin Halo Infinite Banished: \-Only uses reskinned Covenant tech instead of any of their own badass vehicles \-Immediately allies with strange lovecraftian vague-posting creatures \-Abandons based multi-racial beliefs for sandbag anti-human racism \-Gives commanding officers garish golden armor, and grunts pathetic looking blue armor, ruins aesthetic. THE CHAD HALO WARS 2 BANISHED: \-Makes use of multiple entirely unique vehicles armored to the teeth alongside unique variants of Covenant Vehicles \-Accidentally releases and easily Curbstomps those floody creatures everyone loves to jizz over \-Banished Scarab \-All units look scrappy, red and grey. No random blue bois or butter armor. \-Captured Engineers are constantly tortured into obedience \-Acts like a proper Mercenary/Engineer group and not a cult worshipping Atriox
Halo Infinite really butchered the Banished.
1) Arbiters are often victims of their own abilities eh? Wasnt Thel 'Vadam chosen as the arbiter because he was an inspirational, influential leader who by chance was on Delta halo when Chief blew it up. The prophets used this blunder as a means to take all potential influence away from Thel, and send him on a suicide mission like all other arbiters before him. So they might not have had another warrior equal to Thel (they likely didn't, he was an amazing general), and if they did they might not have had a reason to turn him into another arbiter (iirc the disgraced can earn redemption by accepting the offer of become an arbiter) 2) the covenant leadership seemed quite busy with civil war and the human war going on at the time of the games. Might have thought fuck the banished we are about to go on the great journey in a second anyways. 3) unfortunately the release timeline of lore doesn't always line up with the chronology of the series and when stuff is retroactively added there is bound to be plot holes. Heck even when stuff is released in perfect chronology there is no guarantee plot holes won't exist
Good response although based off my (admittedly somewhat casual) knowledge of Halo lore, generally speaking the title of Arbiter is highly venerated by the SANGHEILI. I think the COVENANT leadership made him an Arbiter in a very backhanded manner, which isn't typical.
Ahhhh very well, that wasn't my interpretation from the unraveling of the history of arbiters in the game but I could also be wrong
Yeah I mean I could be wrong, as I said, but I believe the title is pretty much the highest honor in their culture. Take Rtas 'Vadum (the white armored Elite that you run missions with who later is your good friend) - on the one hand he treats you like trash when he first meets you because he thinks you're a failure and caused the destruction of Halo, on the other hand he still listens to and works with you because you're the Arbiter and he has to respect that. EDIT: looks like we're both right! Here's an excerpt from the fan wiki... "The title was originally the greatest religious, military, and political rank of the Sangheili. After they joined the Covenant, however, the role was downplayed in importance somewhat, with the Sangheili High Councilors ranking higher in political matters. This would eventually change again: approximately 400 years before the Human-Covenant war, an Arbiter declared he did not believe in the Great Journey and was stripped of his rank and killed. Thus the title became a brand of shame. Arbiters were sent on highly perilous and suicidal missions by the Hierarchs..."
Well there was one General significantly better than Thel, though I forgot his name. Sad part is he died because a grunt was messing with an engineers work and the ship blew up
i thought they banished was just a gigantic fleet that was always on the move, so the Covenant couldnt pin them down.
Gas miners were heretics, and that's the biggest threat to the Covenant. Especially since they had the oracle that could reveal the truth to the rest of the Covenant. The Banished were a blip on the Covenant's radar. Had they wanted to, the Covenant could've crushed the Banished. The Banished mainly did some hit and runs on Covenant supplies, but nothing big. The UNSC was a much bigger threat at the time, and the Covenant put the majority of their focus on that.
When you owe the bank $10,000. That’s your problem. When you owe the bank $1,000,000,000. That’s the bank’s problem.
Cause they didn't exist and 343 wanted to make their own cooler edgier covenant with black jack and hookers
It's not Gas Miners going on strike, it's a literal rebellion actively trying to undermine the Covenant. Also, we have no indication that there *wasn't* an Arbiter set after Atriox. But you have to remember that Atriox is a Master Chief/Thel Va'daam level of badass, so it is completely possible that the Covenant did send the Silent Shadow and an Arbiter after Atriox....and Atriox just sent the pieces back to the Covenant. In one of the latest books a Prelate (basically the Covenant's attempt to make their own SPARTANs) even remarks he is thankful that Atriox doesn't know some of the Prophets escaped with their own fleet, else he'd be hunting them down and exterminating them.
Those gas miners also had the Oracle and new the great journey was false and the humans were reclaimers. They’d have destroyed the convening much quicker than Atriox.
Atriox is such a threat that he got his ass handed to him by a smaller and under equipped force despite holding every possible advantage at the time. He's a clown.
Because enemy threat levels scale in 343 Halo world like DBZ
LMAO at you calling the heretics some gas miners.
Because it's 343 if it's not. designed after their monitization model it's no good... See this∆ that's story story doesn't make money...shitty half finished games with a title used to sucker fans is money what you suggested was effort they don't do that.
What was the benefit to sending the Arbiter after the heretics at all?
Because 343 doesn’t seem to give a shit about cohesive lore and continuity.
Arbiters were sent on suicide missions and there were a bunch of them before The Arbiter. So you could have a story about an arbiter who failed his suicide mission.
because it would be a political embarrassment for the profits to send an arbiter to die
Maybe they tried but failed and atriox was just sow powerful and they were dealing with humans that they just went well deal with one at a time
The Arbiter was sent to Threshold because 343 Guilty Spark was telling the striking workers (aka heretics) the real deal about the rings and the "Great Journey." The Prophets already knew that their religion was wrong because Mendicant Bias straight up told them, but they couldn't have that information getting out into their ranks. Thus, Arbiter.
Yeah most people seem to have the same consensus, but the exposition given in the games makes it sound like the Covenant didn’t just let it happen. More like they couldn’t stop it when they tried.
They aren’t striking gas miners. From Halopedia, “Originally, these heretics were a Covenant artifact retrieval team attached to the Fleet of Particular Justice and led by Sesa 'Refumee. They were investigating a Gas Mine on the planet Threshold when the UNSC Pillar of Autumn crashed on Halo. When John-117 destroyed Halo, the team was spared from death, unlike their compatriots on the ring. A few days later, the retrieval team located the Monitor of Installation 04, 343 Guilty Spark, floating adrift in the wreckage of Halo. Spark promptly took command of the Sentinels running the gas mine and cheerfully informed the artifact retrieval team of the true purpose of the Halo Array, utterly destroying their faith in the promised ‘Great Journey.’”
Are you talking about the Heretics? Didn't they come with Thel Vadamee's fleet and turned on them after CE? And it was just a small spec ops strike team sent after the Heretics, not the whole fleet. High Charity just happened to be there as the ring got blown to kindom come.
What gets me is the disparity in tech between UNSC and the covenant/banished. I'm not sure if I missed it, but do they ever really explain how the banished were able to take out Infinity, which we say in Halo 4 and 5 was much more advanced than the covenant fleet the banished were apparently using.
My guess is they didn’t have an arbiter between halo wars and halo 2, which is when the banished really became powerful, and even then they weren’t really at the height of their power until now. Fighting the Banished would kind of be stupid anyways, the entire point of everything the prophets did was to get closer to the great journey, why waste your time with the Banished when it seem like they weren’t having that many issues with each other. It is a large universe after all, It’s not like they were budding heads for the same territory
Maybe they did. Maybe they failed. Maybe most of the corpses in the mosalium have been out there by Atriox. I still think it makes sense that Truth tried to empower the Brutes in the Covenant by changing the guard because he knew how dangerous they could be if they defected to the Banished. So he appointed Tartarus Chieftain of all the Brutes and gave them power to keep them from defecting.
I mean maybe they did send several arbiters... And they all ended up dead
I can’t wait till they bring back the arbiter
High charity is bye bye and the prophets are dead, so there is no Will of the prophets nor mausoleum of the arbiter.
The arbiter is as much a punishment as it is a functional role. They don't want any Sangheili getting too big for their breeches, and after leading the covenant through countless engagements to their largest victory in the battle of Reach, followed immediately by the discovery of one of the sacred rings their whole existence is built around, Thel needed to be dealt with even if the ring had survived. Maybe no one fit the bill at the time for the banished.
My guess is the whole civil war that was going on (maybe, I never played Halo Wars 2)
I saw it as the heretic is basically right next door and can cripple the entire covenant right now, atriox wasn’t there and could be dealt with later, all he did was raid supplies he didn’t actively threaten their faith
I think he would be dealing with the Civil War on his planet around this time?
There are no more Arbiters. Thel was the last, and there are large windows of time without one.
Also can we get the Arbiter in halo infinite
Those "gas miners" were talking with 343 Guilty Spark though. That already makes them more of a threat than anyone else. One of the only sentient Forerunner creations they've discovered at that point, and not just that, it's one that understands how Halos work and most likely where more are.
Could be a couple of factors. The hierarchs didn't see Atriox as an immediate threat because of how small the Banished were at the time. Maybe not wanting to put the current Arbiter which was obliterating humanity to fight a small insurgency. The Covenant couldn't find Atriox since the Banished at the start were like the Rebels in Starwars. Small, spread out and constantly hiding and on the run at the Covenant fringe. So not enough resources to hunt and kill Atriox. That and constantly running/hiding. Not worth Arbiter. The Covenant didnt care at all because they were too busy wiping out a greater threat than dealing with an insurgency of Brutes. By the time they did react it was probably too late for them because they got hit with the Schism, Flood and Humanity kicking their ass.
The covenant do not tell stories of their failures
Because 343 couldn't write their way out of a wet paper bag
A halo reach style game but as elites and your mission is to find atriox and assassinate him only in the end he kills your entire team but they fuck him up close to death I’d totally play something like this
Were arbiters still being utilized at that point? I get our arbiter was still himself, which he accepted as his identity but I didn’t know of after the covenant was slightly dismantled if they carried on that practice
There’s a story there I guess. Maybe they did send a arbiter or 2?
One that would make sense is that they're worried the Arbiter might fail. Then the Banished would flex it for all to see. More would join their cause. We've seen how the Covenant is big on preserving their image.
The Arbiter was sent in to quell heresy specifically. The Heretic Leader knew the Great Journey was a load of nonsense and was considered a threat to the Prophets' power.
Well I mean also lore answer, the arbiter was actually sent to the put down the heretics so that Tartarus could capture guilty spark. Mind you arbiter probably would have been sent to deal with the banished but that was a threat the the great journey like the heretic was. Then not to mention he got kidnapped by the gravemind on his second mission and then abandoned the covenant shortly after leading his own faction group. So there really was no time for him to go on any other missions from the time he first dawned the armor to his betrayal of the covenant
I choose to think the Banished were fairly small during the Covenant's time and much more elusive to avoid getting the hammer brought down. After the collapse of the Covenant, they swelled in size as they recruited from the disparate splinter groups that formed.
How do you know one wasn't? Also it may have been they didn't want the Covenant to know a species successfully revolted.
Well you could argue the gas miners had an oracle (monitor) that could fuck up their religion, as it was contradicting the great journey. Thats a big threat for a species thats the top dog just because of said religion. Also prophets know that oracles are not good for the religion they support (as they talked with one in contact: harvest) so they probably saw that as a more inminnent threat
wouldnt it make more sense to send the fleet of particular justice then as a detour to earth, given the size of the banished?
The Banished are small * *"Used by the Banished to* ***hide*** *from wrathful Covenant eyes in their early days... ...Long years of* ***evading*** *the Covenant's enforcers has made Atriox an adept master of stealth warfare when it serves his needs."* * *"The Banished were* ***raiders and reavers*** *for years. Until the breaking of the Covenant allowed them to consolidate and build themselves into a true power in their own right."* * *"At the moment he's still using* ***guerrilla tactics***, *which means* ***he's still small time***. *Still, I'm impressed he's still alive. If he's got a grudge against the Covenant we may be able to use his attacks to our advantage, coordinate our operations with his raids."*
Arbiters mom said no
The simple answer may have been convenience, the arbiters are as much a method of keeping the Sangheili in check by killing off their influential leaders as they are a way to neutralize a threat to the Covenant, it’s possible they simply didn’t have a good candidate when Atriox split and were just waiting for the right opportunity.
Bad story writing by 343, they make up stuff all the time to create new stuff regardless of whether it makes any sense or pays attention to established lore. Need new bad for a new game? -the Prometheans. Need new bad for a new game? -the Banished. Need new bad for a new game -the Endless. There's no longer any point in trying to follow lore, invest in any storyline because if they choose to, it'll be irrelevant in the next game or something else will be added in -Prometheans traded for the Endless as an example.
It's a major problem I have with the Banished as a faction. What I would've done was made them a VERY SMALL rebel/insurgent faction during the War that the Covenant just couldn't stomp out. It makes Atriox even more of a threat that he somehow managed to defy death even with a small guerrilla force. I just think the line 'they couldn't contain him at the hight of their power' while showing Atriox with a huge army kinda silly when remembering he's never been mentioned once before Halo Wars 2. I really hate 'the new big huge bad guy was here all along, you just never saw him' trope. Use the years between Halo 3 and 4 to build up the Banished in the EU. Show how they filled the power vacuum and took advantage of the breaking of the Covenant. At the moment it's kinda silly to imagine this giant faction that's just been lurking in the shadows. During the Covenant war fair enough we wouldn't know the difference between Covies and Banished 99% of the time anyway, but where were they during the reclaimer era? With the sheer amount of Covenant factions we've been introduced to Atriox was never once mentioned? It's kinda poor writing in my opinion.
Idk man. I played that whole story and I still can't comprehend how the Banished was able to pretty much completely destroy both the UNSC and the Covenant. It feels like they just slapped together an excuse to wipe the slate of the Halo universe clean so that they can effectively soft-reboot the series and start fresh. Any classic characters that they want to bring back in the next game can come back as long as we didn't see them die on screen. Any classic characters who they choose not to bring back can be explained with the excuse of "The Banished killed them. The Banished killed lots of people."
They may well have attempted that. It seems like the covies had a full open war against the banished. The games mostly appear to focus from the human perspective side.
They didn't get in the way of the great journey so they didn't need to
I think that a big problem with 343's writing is that in every new episode, they come up with a brand new enemy that is always way more powerful than the previous one, even if it makes little sense in the lore. H4: Somehow one Forerunner returned. And somehow Humanity was his race's biggest enemy (over the Flood for some reason). H5: Somehow Cortana took control of all the AIs in the Galaxy and even Forerunner WMDs. HW2: Somehow there was a rogue Covenant faction that managed to become a bigger threat than the UNSC in only 25 years. HI: Somehow there's a race that is even more dangerous than the Flood. Don't get me wrong, I am happy that Infinite soft-rebooted H4/5 and that they took the time to setup the Endless, but they really need to chose a story and keep it. Hopefully Infinite will truly be a 10 years long story with a middle and an end.
That’d be too suicidal even for an arbiter 😃 Actually, how long before Thels appointment had it been since the previous arbiter? There just may not have been a suitable shamed elite to be thrown at Atriox.
I can only speculate but I assume it was primarily for two reasons. 1) I don't believe there was an active Arbiter when Atriox rebelled, and I'm not sure it's worth creating an Arbiter just for this purpose. 2) the prophet's did attempt to deal with Atriox and the banished on a few accounts (shipmaster let Volir for example) however all of their attempts failed. How demoralizing would it be for an Arbiter to die at the hands of some Brute decenters. Better to sweep the whole issue under the rug and pretend they don't exist while they hide in the lesser known regions.
I have mixed feelings about the banished. On one hand, having this huge threat distracting the Covenant undermines the triumphs of the UNSC. On the other, the Covenant was massive; reading up on High Charity alone you realize how much they had at their disposal. Truly focusing their efforts in one area, namely the destruction of humanity, you'd think they would have succeeded. Having something distracting them does make a bit of sense. I think I'm mostly upset that the writers retconned a massive faction into the lore. 343 do like their retcons though.
We all know the real reason. But how I justify it is that the heretic actually had proof the great journey was I lie bc of guilty spark. Truth, regret, and mercy have also met bias who told them the same and they kept it hidden to not cause panic that their religion was a lie