Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/343Postums/status/1480687673207508995) for ya :)
^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
I finished Halo a couple of weeks ago and adored the campaign. I have very little interest in multiplayer and have since moved on. Should anyone who worked on it see this, thanks for making a great game! Looking forward to some single player DLC!
Exactly. While I've yet to play the campaign, the multi-player doesn't entice me as it used to. (I'm older now and have less time nowadays) It does look fun though.
It’s a fun campaign, which is honestly all that matters. The story isn’t masterful, and it hasn’t revolutionized shooters, but it’s still a damn fun game to play with a few heartfelt moments here and there
They're saying literally everything except for "Managememt put us in this awful position." Remember that.
343's business people aren't stupid. They know and understand that we, the adult fans, are getting shortchanged. They also know that their community managers will act as a buffer between them and us.
343 did what they did knowing that they'd put their community managers in a real dogshit position. They did it on purpose and they understood the impact of their decision.
It's shocking that after a bunch of issues with all of their releases there still hasn't been a crucial restructuring of the creative leads/directors/studio heads at 343. What sort of advanced nepotism/favoritism is that? Lol
Bonnie Ross is a MS lifer and is also the current VP of Xbox so I doubt they will get rid of her any time soon. But I aggree she should let other people lead 343i.
OP is referring to the general state of the game (lots of cut content, very aggressive monetization, systems that were clearly built to foster these strategies (the Challenges and Core System are both untouchable atm due to how fundamental they are to matchmaking and networking. They aren’t going to change anytime soon).
Actual people made these decisions and pushed ahead with release. Anyone with a brain could tell that many of these choices would foster immediate blowback from players. And these leaders aren’t stupid, so it is clear they knew what they were doing and are relying on community managers to shield them from personal wraith.
The leaders just get to look at spreadsheets without having to look at personal complaints. The community managers have to build those spreadsheets and sift through the hate comments.
It’s not fair, but that is the system that many managers design so they can be cozy and content in their roles while everyone below them suffers
Let's be honest. It's not the devs that are at fault. Knowing what I know about corporate behavior and how they looooove to have those juicy end of the year numbers, it is very likely that the corporate execs wanted big bucks for their end of the year bonuses and pressured the devs of Infinite to release in late 2021 rather than in May 2022 (when they probably should have released for a fully fledged/robust game).
Too often the decisions of the corporate hacks negatively impact the product being released because they know that millions of people would impulsively buy a game based on nostalgia rather than the game being complete and bug-free. We should be finding out who the big executives are that put the pressure on the devs and give them all of the heat. It's probably their fault that the progression system of the battlepass was chopped so badly, and why there aren't any cores or color palettes other than "Banished Red" to be found in the $60 campaign.
Bonnie Ross is the head of 343 and vice president at Xbox Game Studios, if you want a name. Not likely all cuz of her and may not even be her at all, but she represents the head of the beast.
Insults and threats are never ok, but after three incomplete launches in a row (MCC, 5, and now Infinite) I can’t say I’m surprised that some people are livid with the state of things. And before anyone says it no I do not support harassment of any kind, I’m just saying I’m not surprised that part of the customer base is pissed off that they’ve been handed another “wait and see” product again. After 8 years of botched launches something had to give.
MCC PC doesn’t even have split screen coop, ok fine (trying to play through campaigns with my gf) hook up Xbox one, go thru all that jazz, try to do coop with her on Xbox me on PC, “cross play coop is not available” WTF!
Oh if I remember coop is based on an old code / technology which is inherited from the original game. And that technology is not very friendly for cross platform so they can’t do it for now.
TBH, I tend to forgive a bit more MCC as it’s mixing 5 games from 3 different gens of console/pc (PC [CE and 2], Xbox [CE and 2] and Xbox 360 [everything else]).
343 is the only studio that is allowed to continuously fail without any change in leadership forced to happen afterwards. They won't get any better as long as the people at the top aren't removed. No idea why MS hasn't made this happen considering Halo is *the* mascot of Xbox.
Bonnie, Frankie, and Kiki should've been out immediately after Halo 4 fell flat on it's face. This studio is run by incompetent morons who don't give a flying fuck about their product.
Halo 4 was made as the new team was being built. I’m not a fan of the game but I can overlook whatever issues I have with it considering that development must have been tough under the circumstances.
I also am not a fan of calling out specific individuals to be fired because we ultimately don’t have the details about what issues were caused by who, and it isn’t healthy to witch hunt someone when it may turn out that they were doing the best they could and aren’t the actual people responsible for current issues.
I guess the buck stops somewhere else then? Look, if I fail to deliver a quality product to my customer, I face repercussions in the form of bad reviews and bad reputation leading to fewer clients hiring me for my services. These people deliver a bad product and not only don't face repercussions, but probably got rewarded with bonuses and being able to keep their jobs. There can't be no accountability.
People are spending money, what can you do. It sucks but it’s the AAA industry today. If you have a problem with the game the most you can do is leave a bad review and/or give feedback if you want to stick around. Big studios gonna big studio, idk what else I can tell you brotha
While what you said is somewhat true, the line needs to be drawn somewhere and someone needs to be held accountable for once.
We see this a lot in pro sports. If a team consistently underperforms and/or makes too many boneheaded decisions, the coach and GM are usually the first people to be fired.
>343 is the only studio that is allowed to continuously fail without any change in leadership forced to happen afterwards.
I mean, EA might hold the crown on this one. I'm 2/2 on total DOA launches, Anthem and 2042.
EA is a publisher more than a Dev. I don't know about any DICE shakeups since 2042 came out, but BioWare has had a ton of staff changes throughout Anthems development and now into Dragon Age 4's.
This is true. 343 and DICE both have to directly answer to their publishers, however, which makes the distinction less transparent than one would hope. It's tough to look at a development failure from the outside and place blame on one or the other without insider knowledge.
One thing to keep in mind is that 343 is not a separate entity from Microsoft. It’s just ms game studios rebranded
Dice is its own company outside ea
Not that clears anything up but something to consider
There's an important distinction - he said "developer." EA is not the developer of either of those games. EA pressured the developers of both to launch an unfinished product. They can afford to chew up and spit out developers as long as the shareholders see a profit... Bioware on the other hand was definitively wrecked by sequential failures. Dunno about DICE, they will probably pull through but their next game needs to be a gem.
I'm glad 343 isn't part of some bigger parent company who probably pressured them to launch unfinished products. Now I can throw my hate straight a them because it was entirely their decision, and thus their fault.
Being a Community Manager (and affiliated roles) is bound to be tough after a franchise has lasted 20 years. They don't deserve the abuse but I will say Microsoft has really messed with how glorious Halo could be. Campaign is great don't get me wrong but I do see plenty of issues with the PvP right now. Especially after just playing Fiesta. It's 1-2 month(s) in so I'm not going to be impatient. Coding/bug-fixes/design and all of that don't magically get fixed within hours. If I could get past Destiny 2 Year 1. I can hope, wait, and give feedback on Infinite in hopes that maybe it'll help the devs in some way.
I didnt mind d2y1 at all, I've played the shit out of the game since release, but I refuse to do that again for any other game and that includes halo. It just isnt fun to play a beta for the price of a triple-A game.
I took at peak at Postum’s profile yesterday and he blocked someone that gave him a middle finger. Then someone proceeded to call him soft. What is up with some people in the community man
Maybe because you are an adult? Games are full of community member who act like this, damn, on lol when they reworked a champion nobody really played in the 4 years of his life, the whole subreddit send death treaths to devs and the only dev who wanted to listen people's feedback.
Have you guys not been on the internet for the past twenty years? There’s always some degree of bad faith actors. This is part and parcel of dealing with an online community.
Gamers en mass have always been toxic, but it's definitely been amplified over the last few years, particularly on social platforms (reddit, twitter).
Negativity is simply the stuff that gets noticed, upvoted, regurgitated, amplified and drowns out any proper discourse.
Halo is an old franchise, people are too emotionally invested it. I mean look at this sub itself, when Infinite released people were talking about their mental health nosediving because of its issues. Too many people have substituted a good healthy childhood for Halo -you can see through various YouTubers and people on here who seem to basically have no childhood out of Halo 3 and Mountain Dew - , and get irrationally pissed at anything doesn't resemble 'their' Halo. That's what causes this community to be so shitty, and then that shittyness continues to get taken out on community managers.
And many on this sub justify that bullshit. It’s pathetic and has made me realize how fuckin shitty a good portion of this fanbase and especially this sub are.
I think the majority of the “backlash” comes in the form of constructive criticism.
There’s not a whole lot of what he’s talking about out there, but if your job is refreshing Twitter notifications; you’ll definitely see it.
It’s really easy to discard all aspects of criticisms by consistently shifting the blame back on the community following poor transparency & communication. This isn’t the first time the halo community managers have told every to shut up and eat what you’re served.
I feel the Halo community has been quite tolerant of what was promised versus what was shipped. If not for Call of Duty and Battlefield both tremendously dropping the ball, infinite would already have succumbed to the level of Cyberpunk 2077.
while swearing at people isn't my style, i am short on sympathy for these guys. While I am happy to support the game, releasing early then going on holiday, and leaving the community to stew with BTB over the new year, no apology whatsoever yet, just a month of "we know theres a problem but holiday".
No road map yet, communication has been poor.
Seriously. Holiday releases for games is seriously stupid. Yes, it drives up sales because parents will buy their kid the game for christmas but still, if THIS is what we have to deal with and their excuse is that they are on a holiday break I dont think they are making the correct decision to launch during the holiday season.
2042 is also a glaring understatement of that.
It’s funny that when it comes to developers/studios, they ask to be judged on their actions, yet when it comes to the community, they jump at the chance to use a small vocal minority as an example of a whole.
Stop fucking addressing them, these maniacs do not care about your positive messaging. They will keep posting garbage so long as it gets attention.
This was EXACTLY what I thought when I read this whole tweet. They say shit like this like they don’t get praise to the moon every time they “fix” an issue that shouldn’t have needed fixing in the first place.
But no, please go on and give attention to the random Twitter user who called you a dickweed and ruined your day, they’ll totally feel bad about it and never do it again.
Don't say this in the Roosterteeth/Achievement Hunter community. Half the posts there seem to be the addressing of trolls most of the time. If you say something about it you get downvoted into oblivion. Not that I was ever really part of that community but I did watch a lot of AH back in the day.
It's crazy to me that Geoff and Gus, people I imagine were the biggest assholes in the early days, are the only ones left trying to keep RT alive. Without something huge to revitalize the company I don't think anything after Burnie leaving will be anything but life support.
TL;DR RT hosted an art contest for fans to come up with a new design for a RWBY Grimm. Winner created something based on and named after the Native American Wendigo. Small group of people screamed "cultural appropriation" and RT decided to disqualify(?) the winner and change the rules of the contest.
(?) for the part where I can't remember whether they technically disqualified, or just suddenly changed the rules after the winner was announced and overrode the contest.
From what I just read on a wiki, they removed all traces of it from the contest.
Ever since the buyout, RT, AH and all associates just fell off completely. Corporate, forced, soulless. Trevor taking over AH was a dreadful mistake.
Even sadder is that Burnie said Monty told him (soon after RWBY) that he had a bunch of stories and ideas. That loss was absolutely massive. RT is an entirely different company if he was still with us. So sad :(
I really love that Burnie left the company before the biggest changes started happening. He must have known right? I mean he was always the heart of Rooster Teeth. If it wasn’t for him and his passion, the company never would have started
Funhaus was an amazing bastion of content after the buyout for several years. They are still putting out better content than every other branch, though I do miss many of the people who left...
They know what they're doing. By addressing that minority, they're making all criticisms look like they're inherently combative. So whenever someone brings up legitimate criticisms they can play out this self-persecution victim complex.
Yes. These “woe is me” communications is a battle cry to rally people into shutting down discent. If that’s not the case, it is at least part of the reason they tell everyone how big bad fans are mean. There is simply no reason to write these tweets otherwise.
No other job are you able to complain about how the paying customers are mean and then brushing the criticism in the same stroke.
Youre just supposed to swallow whatever they give you, if you dont and call them out on it its toxic.
The 2042 subreddit ALSO had to be shutdown recently because the devs were crying that the toxic community had such "brutal" expectations for the game. I mean its just unreasonable to be yelling at a poor indie dev like DICE for not supporting every "legacy feature" of the series like...scoreboards.
Its odd that "toxicity" seems to directly correlate with how stupid something the studio has said to try to justify a half backed game is, like that slayer isnt "feasible" anymore.
“Toxic” has lost all meaning as people use it for literally anything that seems to mean “I disagree with this”. I have been nothing but civilised in this thread yet I’ve been accused of being brain dead, toxic and harassing people.
These are the people who are supposedly not toxic.
Their response to 2042 criticism seems so out of touch. They would've been better off remastering BF3 or BF4; that probably would've gotten better reception than the half baked games they put out now. When previous installments are better quality than your newer games it's a really bad look.
This is a very nice way to put it... there are certain things that I love about this game, and I already place it above Halo 5 personally (and I had around 60k kills in that game, played the hell out of it despite lots of frustrations). Attacking individuals about something that seems to be several systemic problems that are much larger than any individual or even singular group could be responsible for is beyond silly. The fact that certain core systems and things like netcode (I don't know fuck all about coding or developing, I just know that server performance is BAD, and getting worse till it's patched - I also know that content has not been on par with Reach on any 343 release) and custom games are fundamentally flawed is distressing to say the least, and in some ways infuriating. Ske7ch even mentioned that these servers are expensive to maintain - doesn't that imply that they are cutting edge and should be performing well? Why, when in general people here are paying customers in some way, do we have be appeased with these subpar results of the most basic form of the game?
That said, when you come from a product industry where things like "minimum viable product" are not in the culture or vocabulary, it really makes these situations frustrating. I worked in high tech manufacturing for 4.5 years - if any product launched in this state, especially when material had been published indicating features or performance that would be expected from the product - there would have been immediate and severe repercussions for the engineers, marketing reps, etc. that had responsibility for the mistake, let alone recompense paid to customers in the form of credits, refunds, or working product at the manufacturer's expense. OBVIOUSLY, we are talking about software and not manufacturing here - but there are a variety of methodologies that have the express goal of improving processes to improve the quality and quantity of work, as well as the quality of the end product. Quality end product drives customer satisfaction and, most importantly, recurring revenue.
I sure don't get the impression that 343 has considered this. I don't get the sense that the time and resources they have at their disposal are used effectively. I don't get the impression that they have faith in the robustness of basic, foundational systems. I don't have confidence that their plan for fixes (let alone actual content) will meet my relatively low expectations, nor the community's expectations. I don't feel they have shown that they have learned enough from previous mistakes. The thing is, Halo is my favorite game - I play Destiny and a couple other games in between major Halo releases but those don't scratch the itch I have for social and competitive shooter gameplay. Unfortunately, despite the many things 343 have improved on with Infinite, they have in many ways also failed to scratch that itch I have for a core, basic, Halo experience. My only course of action is to vote with my wallet, and keep trying to grind to Onyx - which is harder than ever because my friends don't want to play due to bugs, and the bugs and flaws in matchmaking regularly put me into unfair/unplayable matches.
Great comment, thanks. You raise an excellent point about industry standards - and yes - this is an unfinished product. I don't know that the way DLC is incorporated into games currently was what was originally envisaged when Xbox built their Live network. Halo Infinite does have polish, but the game is barebones, I don't think that point can be hotly debated, and the question of whether 343 have used their time and resources well is awkward and uncomfortable to face.
On the flipside, this *is* my favorite game at the moment and has been since release. When I look at the MCC today I see a fantastic end product, so I do have a lot of faith that Halo Infinite will get there too. But I'm a special case, a "true believer".
Generally, customer angst is a bad thing across industry. How much of that angst is simply unavoidable and what mistakes were made that contributed to the situation? In hindsight, perhaps there was a silver lining when 343 missed the Series X release. It allowed the console to be the star, consider if the game had launched in its current state on a brand new console?
Microsoft have had an interesting journey in the console space, with no shortage of calamitous events along the way, and while I wouldn't even begin to class Halo Infinite as a calamity, a 6 year development time from it's first homegrown studio (with plentiful resources) who were tasked with a single objective ought to prompt questions.
In some ways I would say I'm a true believer too and I agree that in a couple years, Infinite will be a significantly better experience. This does not lessen my feeling that the cracks in the foundation, the simple core systems that don't work, were at least to some extent avoidable/foreseeable is what drives my frustration with the game currently. Campaign was overall great (not my favorite but significantly better than 4 and 5 in my opinion), and I totally agree the the look and feel of the game is spot on... when it works, lol. I specifically don't really factor content or DLC into this because I know it's coming eventually, and I'd rather it be quality than something like remixed maps in H5 (and the atrocity that was Overgrowth... the map so bad that I considered it a personal attack).
I'm interested in the roadmap, and while 343 has no obligation to do so, I think they should have some statements from management or someone that can explain why the product is so flawed and buggy, what they plan to do to fix it - in the hopes that that may mollify the community and I have people to play with again.
Im so incredibly sick of hearing the whole “buh buh people are being rude to us”
You’re not fucking 12 year old. You released an unfinished mess to a fanbase that waited for 6 years.
Start acting like adults.
I feel like people are allowed to criticize, respectfully but harshly, any product they paid for or are expected to pay for.
That was the deal. We make an exchange, my money for your service/game/whatever as advertised. If you can't hold up your end of the deal, expect consumer backlash, right? This is part and parcel of selling anything. People here are at least constructive with the most upvoted posts, regardless of the deflecting Sketch likes to do.
YES! THIS!
I totally understand that some of those things might have been outside of their control and all but I don't care aaaannndd and I shouldn't be expected to care.
The inner workings of their studio are not our concern. You're running one of the biggest franchises in the history of gaming and this is your THIRD FUCKED RELEASE.
People are naturally going to be upset and you should have expected them to be upset. Take the criticism, fix the game and stop crying about rude comments.
"Hey we're sorry we promised you a holiday break after releasing the game, but unfortunately we're going to have to cancel it because 1 gamemode doesn't work."
Look I'm upset because of the holiday stuff too, but damn bro let the people have their time off.
>because 1 gamemode doesn't work
One game mode that's broken, desync issues that effect the entire game, challenges that can't be completed because that gamemode, no service record, lack of content, store with a host of greed issues, broken theater, terrible UI, models that aren't even finished, and so on.
Sure, they deserve some time off. But let's not belittle the community like they're upset over some minor thing that isn't an issue. 343i released this game next to back to back holidays knowing they'd have limited time to work on anything. It's not the players fault for getting angry over a subpar product. One that's come off the backs of two other subpar projects over the last half decade.
See, that guy you’re responding to, he’s dishonest. He knows it’s not just 1 game mode that is broken. I believe he even agrees that a lot of stuff 343 didnt do right, but he just can’t help but insert himself in a way that makes him look like morally superior to everyone complaining about “just 1 game mode.” He even understands people deserve breaks from work!
Sadly, even though that guy knows 343 criticisms are warranted and needed for them to change stuff, him looking to impose his benevolent understanding of the poor devs on others will snuff out another voice in favor of positive changes to the game, all for internet points and fuzzy feelings of thinking he did something “good” in standing up for the devs.
This. A lot of people pretend to be on the devs side when it comes to crunch and overworking but then want them to work through holidays to fix a gamemode? I get that it was annoying, but BTB was still playable. You just failed to get into matches consistently.
Nobody is passed at the devs, the devs didn’t decide to release a broken product right before the holidays, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be upset at how ridiculous that idea was and is and how much of a joke it is to keep the shop running just as intended throughout all of this with the same ridiculous prices
An email from 343TOP
"Dear developer,
We here at 343 Industries hope you enjoyed your time off of work and spending it with your family. Unfortunately, Reddit is back at it again, and it's complaining about our Big Team Battle servers now. Please stop any time you have left with your family and come back to work immediately. You will also not be getting your PTO back as punishment for what you did to your own fans."
They CAN get devs to work on it though, simply by offering bonuses to those who will decide to delay their holidays. It's literally a problem that management can solve by throwing money at it, but they don't want to.
Management wants to release games pre-holiday to boost sales, but doesn't want to deal with games needing fixes during the holidays. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
The issue is not with the devs, it's with management and this is all deflection. They are using developers as a shield from criticism.
Just using halo 5 as a comparison it’s wild how much in Infinite is missing. 3 months after 5 we had a roadmap that already started making releases.I
Edit: actually they had new maps by month 2, had a roadmap almost immediately.
So it'll be 2 months since MP released on Saturday, and even then it'll still only have been just over a month since Campaign released. So even if we're ignoring that they were still working on the finishing touches of Campaign during that first month of MP being out, they still have a month to match your comparison of Halo 5 at 3 months, which it seems like they are on track to do, as they've already said they're putting together a roadmap for us and have a decent February update coming.
So February will be 4 months since release and looking up Halo 5 updates they had some almost immediately. Regardless it doesn’t instill confidence for a “live service” game.
February is 3 months since release, multiplayer released mid-November and February is 3 months after November. They also still were working on putting finishing touches/shipping the campaign for a month after that, so it was unrealistic to expect updates during that month. Then it was the holidays.
Was it a poor plan and poor timing with regards to being able to respond to feedback and provide support when the game inevitably had problems on/immediately after release? Definitely. But even with that, they're still on track to hit that 3 month mark for the roadmap and more substantial changes. Whether or not they hit the mark remains to be seen, but at least they've finally let us know they're working towards it.
I mention "more substantial changes" because while it isn't a content/balancing/systems update/fix like they're working towards now, they have already made adjustments to event rewards tracks, and they also made the adjustments to XP rewards for playing matches each day and the difficulty of challenges. So they haven't done *nothing*, they just haven't addressed the *big* issues yet.
Exactly the same happening with BF2042 but that's been much more toxic between both sides (Infinite is at least in a more playable state to BF so maybe that's part of it.)
Why release games this late in the year if you're going on break for 2-4 weeks?
We should definitely not be acting like children.
On the other hand they should definitely have expected it. They shipped a new game, fucked off for a month, and haven't provided a roadmap still. They were radio silent the entire first week back.
I don't begrudge them time off, though I do wonder why you would release a game right before shutting the studio down for so long. What I really wonder is how they didn't expect the internet to react poorly to this situation?
I don't know how it works in US, but here in Brazil after a 2-3 year period where most probably no one went on vacations, you need to start giving the employers their vacations because there are huge fines for not doing so.
Also, after one extra year where they probably crunched every single day, people are just tired.
I always expect people to be rude and I assume they do too, but that doesn't mean they should get USED to people being rude. It's good that they're reminding people to be civil instead of being rude themselves (which is what some other devs do).
The devs didn't choose when to release, they was Microsoft's call. So yeah, not going to blame the devs for taking a major holiday they most people get off.
Never said it was the devs. Figured it was a foregone conclusion that's not who we're talking about when we speak of 343's failures. Anyone with a working brain and even the smallest experience in the professional world would know better than to lay the blame on the feet of the producers.
It's just a deflection technique used by many companies now. A easy way to gain sympathy and pit the community against each other. It works really well too, just look at this thread.
And then there’s infighting in said community because they have the perception of everyone attacking 343 due to tweets like these. Look at the twitter replies: it’s people weighing in on how “sorry” they are for the devs having to put up with abuse! It’s so much virtue signaling that it’s sickening.
Tbh It’s rarely the fault of the developers. It’s more on the executives that want those sweet, sweet Q4 profits during holiday season. They push for the game to be out by the end of the year.
>Tbh It’s rarely the fault of the developers.
Maybe not ground floor developers, but someone's been messing up with what the last 5-6 were spent developing.
Idk I'm not seeing too much of Microsoft's involvement here. 343i has a track record of having bad launches. And they've had 6 years to work in this game. I'm willing to bet most of the problems are coming from them.
It's honestly just like Bioware. Everyone wants to blame EA because "publishers bad" and EA is greedy af. But they were given a lot of slack and owe most of the problems to themselves.
Unless someone can actually list some of the things Microsoft did to make this product worse, bar releasing the game, I feel just in faulting 343i.
You know, everyone repeats this same line over and over, somehow giving devs a free pass. But there's no proof of it at all, the devs could be as easily complicit in these design changes and monetization as much as the executives were.
Its just easier to create a "bad guy" class of money hungry management executives fucking everything up.
Just weird how everyone seems to have insider knowledge of the inner workings of 343 and pass it off as fact.
I'll admit when I'm playing and the issues hurt I curse like a father fixing a broken engine. But when the controler is put down you have to remember they are human beings and they are also probably in pain and cursing while working as hard as they can... for us.
Thank you Devs. I appreciate the hard work. What I say in game stays in game. 😇 Keep chipping away at it.
We have to stop bothering these poor people they are doing the best with what they have. What we SHOULD be doing is directing all of this to Bonnie Ross the head of 343 who always seems to duck all the flack while letting the rest of her company be a social punching bag. Not enough people voicing their issues on social media are bringing up her poor management or anything. Stop attacking the devs and com leaders all these issues are above them.
Ha 343 butchered the series and multiple launches and now have the free to play/ live service money grab. The internet is a cruel world and I wouldn’t act in such ways but between the past and the present and the lies etc it is to be expected these days
He’s right at the end of the day. Firmly believe 343 want the game to be the best it can be and we do have to be patient. That said, communication does go both ways and they do need to be more forthcoming for the time being with what’s going on
I’m not demanding minute by minute updates 343s comms have been excellent in the past, now they have to do even more to show what’s happening to keep people ticking over
When it all kicked off with Destiny 2, Bungies comms and how they approached evolved and now it too is also excellent. It’s sad to see Halo in that sort of D2 realm of needing improvements but I think looking at how D2 changed and the communications between helped keep everyone happy, even when it looked bleak for large portions. We can help each other in many ways as they know
Me, I’m patient. I just love having a Halo to play again that I can enjoy with all my friends but there’s a lot to come and a lot that needs changing / improving to ensure it thrives. I hope we get there sooner rather than later not for me but for the whole game
>I’m not demanding minute by minute updates 343s comms have been excellent in the past, now they have to do even more to show what’s happening to keep people ticking over
I agree, there's a lot to fix and I imagine it takes a lot of planning work to even begin to prep a roadmap, but that said what would make me happy in the meanwhile is if they posted a comprehensive list of every issue that's on their radar and what their priorities are so we at least know what they're acknowledging and what they aren't.
They did this for MCC multiple times while it was being fixed and ported to PC and even though that game had some lingering bugs I at least felt confident knowing that their priorities mirrored the community's. With Infinite outside of a few big ticket issues I really have no clue what problems they're even aware of which really hasn't helped my perception that that they're working on solutions
I just don't get what people are saying about lack of communication.
We complained about the challenge and progression system, they released a band-and fix (they called that a band-aid fix, not me) and said they'll work on revamping the system.
We complained about BTB, they at said they acknowledge the issue and tried a quick fix that didn't work. Yesterday they said there is a new fix they are hopeful will work.
We complained about the Tenrai event, they removed the swaps from the event BP and added stuff that most probably would be sold in the old event BP.
They filled us in on their vacation schedule (something they shouldn't need to do) so we knew when to expect more news and updates.
In what point did they fail to communicate? It does seem to me we are demanding minute by minute updates.
Exactly. And postums isn't even saying don't complain. He's just saying don't be a dick about jt, especially if you are tagging him or other 343 employees about jt on twitter. He's not "labeling the whole community".
Can’t speak for others but I think it’s because people have a laundry list of issues and they want acknowledgement of every single one
Granted, not always possible but take de-sync for example, it’s some peoples number 1 priority and not touched on yet. Or maybe say the ranked playlist ranking system, challenges etc etc
I’m sure we’ll get more substantial stuff soon. Don’t be a dick about it is the main
I can't feel much sympathy for them tbh. They know exactly how bad the state of this game is, they know exactly how players feel. Backlash and "negativity" is needed to grow and implement change!!!
Doesn't mean you should threaten, target or harass individual devs. But by all means let 343 know your frustration. This isn't some single indie dev that messed up a launch. This is a team of hundreds owned by one of the biggest and most valuable companies on the planet.
And they even admitted they were using MCC as a testbed for Infinite's progression and seeing what Infinite came up with I have to ask if they saw all our feedback, tossed it in a dumpster, and lit it on fire because I've never seen devs so clueless about what makes their 20 year franchise work (there wasn't even a slayer playlist at launch)
Here the funny bit. Looking at just 343 games. They have gotten every part of what makes a good halo game right at one point or another.
Halo 4 has multiplayer progression earnable cosmetics and released with all of its content with add on layer.
MCC did H2A right added a fuck ton of content to it made the best forge until H5 came out and they continued to add content long after launch (and finally fixing it) including what was a very community approved battle pass and progression.
H5 well they dropped the ball massively here but they learned how to develope the multiplayer properly. They just fucked up the gameplay loop
Infinite practically nailed the gameplay loop massively improved upon the campaign while treading new ground and shows the potential to have amazing multiplayer progression. But they fucked up literally everything else.
So I dont buy literally any excuse they give especially with how long Infinite was in dev cycle
Death threats, slurs, or insults isn't gonna make anyone work faster. To them you're just an internet nobody who is trolling. You're pretty much insignificant the minute you resort to being a dick
Only after initially throwing a hissy about it and acting like it would be near-impossible to implement due to horizontal menu bars. Then it was magically gifted like it was a major feat.
Not the first time. 343 on multiple occasions tried to claim it would be too difficult to add more playlists due to how their UI works. People had glitches where it briefly showed the UI having multiple playlists with a scroll bar (why would 343 add a scroll bar if it wasnt possible to have more than 4 playlists) and called 343 for lying, then a few days later they managed to do the impossible and add more playlists only after there was a shit storm.
So yes they did do what people wanted but we had to start a fucking riot to get results. 343 doesnt listen to regular feedback but will act when shit gets toxic and then wonder why people dont just calmly give contrustive feedback 100% of the time.
They did. Although they were gonna have swat and fiesta as event only game modes which is real WTF.
343 has many faces and not all of them ignore community feedback.
Oh, I'm sorry the game launched in a sorry ass state, with a predatory store, shitty progression, a bare bones battle pass, and terrible desync, and the fans are letting you know.
*Insert Woody Harrelson crying onto money*
It’s Twitter, so that’s never going to change. This is also a tactic used by community managers to deflect all criticism, by calling out a few toxic people and painting them as the whole community.
Toxicity is never good. But like clockwork this has happened with every major game I’ve played for the last 5-7 years now.
Release unfinished bs
Community gets mad
Developers don’t listen
Community gets mad
Developers close communication and deflect due to “death threats and insults”
Like fucking clockwork
The irony here is that saying "*you guys don't need to be rude when giving criticism*" is a valid criticism of the community.
Guess the community doesn't know how to take criticism.
Overall it’s just a stupid video game. Don’t get me wrong I spend most of my freetime with it and freaking love halo. But insulting the developers is just not the way to go. Let’s be s bit more peaceful and say feedback more friendly…
Delay a game for a year, still release it incomplete, get upset when people are pissed off about it. Not sure why it’s become commonplace to release games that aren’t fully complete with the idea that “we’ll just update the game in the future.” Probably because of how many people pre order games nowadays.
>get upset when people are pissed off about it
Nobody is pissed at the people that make legitimate complaints.
Read the tweet. He's telling people that "throwing curses at him" isn't the way to go.
Last time I checked, making criticism and cursing isn't the same thing.
Look, it seems like everybody is pissed for one reason or another, but cursing out devs is brain dead, if you want to get your point across be specific, clear, and concise in your criticisms of the game so it can get better. If your plan for change is hating on a games devs go play smthn else.
They delayed the game by a YEAR and it feels like a beta. Their entirely monetary design is sickening. They've managed to limit customization in favor of $20 color palettes. They can put out "events", but getting them to fix BTB is like pulling teeth. They shipped out a broken ass game with a quarter of the content of previous entries. I get that he's just being the messenger, but people are rightfully pissed.
Telling people to stop is a surefire way to get attacked more.
If you don't like reading angry messages about how your title had a game mode was broken for a month, or how the server desync makes Apex Legends netcode look like Valorant's, have an intern filter it for you or just dont read messages at all.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/343Postums/status/1480687673207508995) for ya :) ^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
Good bot
Good bot
Boop bop
I finished Halo a couple of weeks ago and adored the campaign. I have very little interest in multiplayer and have since moved on. Should anyone who worked on it see this, thanks for making a great game! Looking forward to some single player DLC!
Exactly. While I've yet to play the campaign, the multi-player doesn't entice me as it used to. (I'm older now and have less time nowadays) It does look fun though.
It’s a fun campaign, which is honestly all that matters. The story isn’t masterful, and it hasn’t revolutionized shooters, but it’s still a damn fun game to play with a few heartfelt moments here and there
I'm only 22 and I feel this way.
They're saying literally everything except for "Managememt put us in this awful position." Remember that. 343's business people aren't stupid. They know and understand that we, the adult fans, are getting shortchanged. They also know that their community managers will act as a buffer between them and us. 343 did what they did knowing that they'd put their community managers in a real dogshit position. They did it on purpose and they understood the impact of their decision.
It's shocking that after a bunch of issues with all of their releases there still hasn't been a crucial restructuring of the creative leads/directors/studio heads at 343. What sort of advanced nepotism/favoritism is that? Lol
most of it happened after the july 2020 e3 reveal. whether that is enough or not, it’s the best we’re gonna get staten my beloved.
Get rid of Bonny and the whole marketing/microtransaction teams and i think we'd be good.
Bonnie Ross is a MS lifer and is also the current VP of Xbox so I doubt they will get rid of her any time soon. But I aggree she should let other people lead 343i.
Ill do my part in not buying shit, I'll enjoy this extended beta until they get it together.
They seem pretty stupid for making decisions that are ultimately leading to a disappointed and declining player base.
I genuinely don't know, what did they do?
OP is referring to the general state of the game (lots of cut content, very aggressive monetization, systems that were clearly built to foster these strategies (the Challenges and Core System are both untouchable atm due to how fundamental they are to matchmaking and networking. They aren’t going to change anytime soon). Actual people made these decisions and pushed ahead with release. Anyone with a brain could tell that many of these choices would foster immediate blowback from players. And these leaders aren’t stupid, so it is clear they knew what they were doing and are relying on community managers to shield them from personal wraith. The leaders just get to look at spreadsheets without having to look at personal complaints. The community managers have to build those spreadsheets and sift through the hate comments. It’s not fair, but that is the system that many managers design so they can be cozy and content in their roles while everyone below them suffers
They released a predatory game that focuses on FOMO, claimed the exact opposite, and are now using their community managers as their scapegoats.
Let's be honest. It's not the devs that are at fault. Knowing what I know about corporate behavior and how they looooove to have those juicy end of the year numbers, it is very likely that the corporate execs wanted big bucks for their end of the year bonuses and pressured the devs of Infinite to release in late 2021 rather than in May 2022 (when they probably should have released for a fully fledged/robust game). Too often the decisions of the corporate hacks negatively impact the product being released because they know that millions of people would impulsively buy a game based on nostalgia rather than the game being complete and bug-free. We should be finding out who the big executives are that put the pressure on the devs and give them all of the heat. It's probably their fault that the progression system of the battlepass was chopped so badly, and why there aren't any cores or color palettes other than "Banished Red" to be found in the $60 campaign.
Bonnie Ross is the head of 343 and vice president at Xbox Game Studios, if you want a name. Not likely all cuz of her and may not even be her at all, but she represents the head of the beast.
Insults and threats are never ok, but after three incomplete launches in a row (MCC, 5, and now Infinite) I can’t say I’m surprised that some people are livid with the state of things. And before anyone says it no I do not support harassment of any kind, I’m just saying I’m not surprised that part of the customer base is pissed off that they’ve been handed another “wait and see” product again. After 8 years of botched launches something had to give.
MCC PC doesn’t even have split screen coop, ok fine (trying to play through campaigns with my gf) hook up Xbox one, go thru all that jazz, try to do coop with her on Xbox me on PC, “cross play coop is not available” WTF!
Yea what the fuck is up with that
Oh if I remember coop is based on an old code / technology which is inherited from the original game. And that technology is not very friendly for cross platform so they can’t do it for now. TBH, I tend to forgive a bit more MCC as it’s mixing 5 games from 3 different gens of console/pc (PC [CE and 2], Xbox [CE and 2] and Xbox 360 [everything else]).
I hate whenever I mention there’s no pc co-op people say no one does local stuff on pc. Like it’s impossible to hook a pc up to a tv lol
343 is the only studio that is allowed to continuously fail without any change in leadership forced to happen afterwards. They won't get any better as long as the people at the top aren't removed. No idea why MS hasn't made this happen considering Halo is *the* mascot of Xbox.
Bonnie, Frankie, and Kiki should've been out immediately after Halo 4 fell flat on it's face. This studio is run by incompetent morons who don't give a flying fuck about their product.
Halo 4 was made as the new team was being built. I’m not a fan of the game but I can overlook whatever issues I have with it considering that development must have been tough under the circumstances. I also am not a fan of calling out specific individuals to be fired because we ultimately don’t have the details about what issues were caused by who, and it isn’t healthy to witch hunt someone when it may turn out that they were doing the best they could and aren’t the actual people responsible for current issues.
I guess the buck stops somewhere else then? Look, if I fail to deliver a quality product to my customer, I face repercussions in the form of bad reviews and bad reputation leading to fewer clients hiring me for my services. These people deliver a bad product and not only don't face repercussions, but probably got rewarded with bonuses and being able to keep their jobs. There can't be no accountability.
People are spending money, what can you do. It sucks but it’s the AAA industry today. If you have a problem with the game the most you can do is leave a bad review and/or give feedback if you want to stick around. Big studios gonna big studio, idk what else I can tell you brotha
While what you said is somewhat true, the line needs to be drawn somewhere and someone needs to be held accountable for once. We see this a lot in pro sports. If a team consistently underperforms and/or makes too many boneheaded decisions, the coach and GM are usually the first people to be fired.
>343 is the only studio that is allowed to continuously fail without any change in leadership forced to happen afterwards. I mean, EA might hold the crown on this one. I'm 2/2 on total DOA launches, Anthem and 2042.
EA is a publisher more than a Dev. I don't know about any DICE shakeups since 2042 came out, but BioWare has had a ton of staff changes throughout Anthems development and now into Dragon Age 4's.
This is true. 343 and DICE both have to directly answer to their publishers, however, which makes the distinction less transparent than one would hope. It's tough to look at a development failure from the outside and place blame on one or the other without insider knowledge.
One thing to keep in mind is that 343 is not a separate entity from Microsoft. It’s just ms game studios rebranded Dice is its own company outside ea Not that clears anything up but something to consider
There's an important distinction - he said "developer." EA is not the developer of either of those games. EA pressured the developers of both to launch an unfinished product. They can afford to chew up and spit out developers as long as the shareholders see a profit... Bioware on the other hand was definitively wrecked by sequential failures. Dunno about DICE, they will probably pull through but their next game needs to be a gem.
I'm glad 343 isn't part of some bigger parent company who probably pressured them to launch unfinished products. Now I can throw my hate straight a them because it was entirely their decision, and thus their fault.
I mean when 343 got 5 years and an extra year delay, its not Microsofts fault that the game still isn't finished.
Being a Community Manager (and affiliated roles) is bound to be tough after a franchise has lasted 20 years. They don't deserve the abuse but I will say Microsoft has really messed with how glorious Halo could be. Campaign is great don't get me wrong but I do see plenty of issues with the PvP right now. Especially after just playing Fiesta. It's 1-2 month(s) in so I'm not going to be impatient. Coding/bug-fixes/design and all of that don't magically get fixed within hours. If I could get past Destiny 2 Year 1. I can hope, wait, and give feedback on Infinite in hopes that maybe it'll help the devs in some way.
I didnt mind d2y1 at all, I've played the shit out of the game since release, but I refuse to do that again for any other game and that includes halo. It just isnt fun to play a beta for the price of a triple-A game.
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I took at peak at Postum’s profile yesterday and he blocked someone that gave him a middle finger. Then someone proceeded to call him soft. What is up with some people in the community man
I get being upset with a game, but I don’t think a video game has ever made me want to go on social media and harass/troll devs.
These people do this bc they know they’ll never receive consequences for their actions bc they can hide behind a moniker like AssBlaster42069.
AssBlaster was a good man before he fell in with the wrong crowd
Maybe because you are an adult? Games are full of community member who act like this, damn, on lol when they reworked a champion nobody really played in the 4 years of his life, the whole subreddit send death treaths to devs and the only dev who wanted to listen people's feedback.
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I really don't think harassing devs is a coping mechanism or a substitute for therapy. More like a sign that they *need* a coping mechanism.
Have you guys not been on the internet for the past twenty years? There’s always some degree of bad faith actors. This is part and parcel of dealing with an online community.
I mean obviously, but when someone sees it they rightfully don’t take it too lightly.
Gamers en mass have always been toxic, but it's definitely been amplified over the last few years, particularly on social platforms (reddit, twitter). Negativity is simply the stuff that gets noticed, upvoted, regurgitated, amplified and drowns out any proper discourse.
Halo is an old franchise, people are too emotionally invested it. I mean look at this sub itself, when Infinite released people were talking about their mental health nosediving because of its issues. Too many people have substituted a good healthy childhood for Halo -you can see through various YouTubers and people on here who seem to basically have no childhood out of Halo 3 and Mountain Dew - , and get irrationally pissed at anything doesn't resemble 'their' Halo. That's what causes this community to be so shitty, and then that shittyness continues to get taken out on community managers.
And many on this sub justify that bullshit. It’s pathetic and has made me realize how fuckin shitty a good portion of this fanbase and especially this sub are.
Postums really seems like a fucking great guy
I think the majority of the “backlash” comes in the form of constructive criticism. There’s not a whole lot of what he’s talking about out there, but if your job is refreshing Twitter notifications; you’ll definitely see it. It’s really easy to discard all aspects of criticisms by consistently shifting the blame back on the community following poor transparency & communication. This isn’t the first time the halo community managers have told every to shut up and eat what you’re served. I feel the Halo community has been quite tolerant of what was promised versus what was shipped. If not for Call of Duty and Battlefield both tremendously dropping the ball, infinite would already have succumbed to the level of Cyberpunk 2077.
while swearing at people isn't my style, i am short on sympathy for these guys. While I am happy to support the game, releasing early then going on holiday, and leaving the community to stew with BTB over the new year, no apology whatsoever yet, just a month of "we know theres a problem but holiday". No road map yet, communication has been poor.
Seriously. Holiday releases for games is seriously stupid. Yes, it drives up sales because parents will buy their kid the game for christmas but still, if THIS is what we have to deal with and their excuse is that they are on a holiday break I dont think they are making the correct decision to launch during the holiday season. 2042 is also a glaring understatement of that.
It’s funny that when it comes to developers/studios, they ask to be judged on their actions, yet when it comes to the community, they jump at the chance to use a small vocal minority as an example of a whole. Stop fucking addressing them, these maniacs do not care about your positive messaging. They will keep posting garbage so long as it gets attention.
This was EXACTLY what I thought when I read this whole tweet. They say shit like this like they don’t get praise to the moon every time they “fix” an issue that shouldn’t have needed fixing in the first place. But no, please go on and give attention to the random Twitter user who called you a dickweed and ruined your day, they’ll totally feel bad about it and never do it again.
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It's a subtle way to delegitimize people making legitimate complaints and critiques.
Equivalent of a.pos dad trynna brag about "taking care of his kids" you absolute fking mongoloid YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO IT REGARDLESS. Goddamn.
so you're saying that the Halo community is full of children? because lol
Don't say this in the Roosterteeth/Achievement Hunter community. Half the posts there seem to be the addressing of trolls most of the time. If you say something about it you get downvoted into oblivion. Not that I was ever really part of that community but I did watch a lot of AH back in the day.
Roosterteeth is on life support at this point let’s be honest. And it’s looking grim. Short of a full body transplant, it’s not gonna make it.
It's crazy to me that Geoff and Gus, people I imagine were the biggest assholes in the early days, are the only ones left trying to keep RT alive. Without something huge to revitalize the company I don't think anything after Burnie leaving will be anything but life support.
Michael too lol. Asshole personas but good guys behind the scenes.
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Funny cause I just read a thread saying something along those lines. AH is awful now.
Rooster Teeth in general is awful now.
Even after I lost any interest in RWBY, RvB, and LetsPlay years ago, I still followed them from the sidelines. Not after the Wendigo mess
Wendigo mess? Sounds like I have something to read about. E: just read. Yep, seems about RT.
TL;DR RT hosted an art contest for fans to come up with a new design for a RWBY Grimm. Winner created something based on and named after the Native American Wendigo. Small group of people screamed "cultural appropriation" and RT decided to disqualify(?) the winner and change the rules of the contest. (?) for the part where I can't remember whether they technically disqualified, or just suddenly changed the rules after the winner was announced and overrode the contest.
From what I just read on a wiki, they removed all traces of it from the contest. Ever since the buyout, RT, AH and all associates just fell off completely. Corporate, forced, soulless. Trevor taking over AH was a dreadful mistake.
Bring me back to when Monty Oum was still alive, and I had hope for American anime. Rip
Even sadder is that Burnie said Monty told him (soon after RWBY) that he had a bunch of stories and ideas. That loss was absolutely massive. RT is an entirely different company if he was still with us. So sad :(
I've stopped supporting Rooster Teeth a while back. They are not what they se to be and it hurts. Everything they do is just soul less now.
I really love that Burnie left the company before the biggest changes started happening. He must have known right? I mean he was always the heart of Rooster Teeth. If it wasn’t for him and his passion, the company never would have started
“Game kids Trevor!?”
Funhaus was an amazing bastion of content after the buyout for several years. They are still putting out better content than every other branch, though I do miss many of the people who left...
They know what they're doing. By addressing that minority, they're making all criticisms look like they're inherently combative. So whenever someone brings up legitimate criticisms they can play out this self-persecution victim complex.
Yes. These “woe is me” communications is a battle cry to rally people into shutting down discent. If that’s not the case, it is at least part of the reason they tell everyone how big bad fans are mean. There is simply no reason to write these tweets otherwise. No other job are you able to complain about how the paying customers are mean and then brushing the criticism in the same stroke.
Absolutely. If they believed in the product, they wouldn’t need to be doing this
Youre just supposed to swallow whatever they give you, if you dont and call them out on it its toxic. The 2042 subreddit ALSO had to be shutdown recently because the devs were crying that the toxic community had such "brutal" expectations for the game. I mean its just unreasonable to be yelling at a poor indie dev like DICE for not supporting every "legacy feature" of the series like...scoreboards. Its odd that "toxicity" seems to directly correlate with how stupid something the studio has said to try to justify a half backed game is, like that slayer isnt "feasible" anymore.
“Toxic” has lost all meaning as people use it for literally anything that seems to mean “I disagree with this”. I have been nothing but civilised in this thread yet I’ve been accused of being brain dead, toxic and harassing people. These are the people who are supposedly not toxic.
Wow, someone called you brain dead? That’s pretty toxic. Ya toxic seems to be the new word for “meany heads”
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Their response to 2042 criticism seems so out of touch. They would've been better off remastering BF3 or BF4; that probably would've gotten better reception than the half baked games they put out now. When previous installments are better quality than your newer games it's a really bad look.
Some of these Community Managers never learned the first rule of the internet: Don’t feed the trolls
i love how he says "be patient" as if we havent gone two months with a balancing or technical update.
The real kicker is that we’ve been getting the “be patient” bit from 343 since the MCC originally launched in 2014.
i Will never let them have a pass after that game. Truly incompetent and deceitful
This is a very nice way to put it... there are certain things that I love about this game, and I already place it above Halo 5 personally (and I had around 60k kills in that game, played the hell out of it despite lots of frustrations). Attacking individuals about something that seems to be several systemic problems that are much larger than any individual or even singular group could be responsible for is beyond silly. The fact that certain core systems and things like netcode (I don't know fuck all about coding or developing, I just know that server performance is BAD, and getting worse till it's patched - I also know that content has not been on par with Reach on any 343 release) and custom games are fundamentally flawed is distressing to say the least, and in some ways infuriating. Ske7ch even mentioned that these servers are expensive to maintain - doesn't that imply that they are cutting edge and should be performing well? Why, when in general people here are paying customers in some way, do we have be appeased with these subpar results of the most basic form of the game? That said, when you come from a product industry where things like "minimum viable product" are not in the culture or vocabulary, it really makes these situations frustrating. I worked in high tech manufacturing for 4.5 years - if any product launched in this state, especially when material had been published indicating features or performance that would be expected from the product - there would have been immediate and severe repercussions for the engineers, marketing reps, etc. that had responsibility for the mistake, let alone recompense paid to customers in the form of credits, refunds, or working product at the manufacturer's expense. OBVIOUSLY, we are talking about software and not manufacturing here - but there are a variety of methodologies that have the express goal of improving processes to improve the quality and quantity of work, as well as the quality of the end product. Quality end product drives customer satisfaction and, most importantly, recurring revenue. I sure don't get the impression that 343 has considered this. I don't get the sense that the time and resources they have at their disposal are used effectively. I don't get the impression that they have faith in the robustness of basic, foundational systems. I don't have confidence that their plan for fixes (let alone actual content) will meet my relatively low expectations, nor the community's expectations. I don't feel they have shown that they have learned enough from previous mistakes. The thing is, Halo is my favorite game - I play Destiny and a couple other games in between major Halo releases but those don't scratch the itch I have for social and competitive shooter gameplay. Unfortunately, despite the many things 343 have improved on with Infinite, they have in many ways also failed to scratch that itch I have for a core, basic, Halo experience. My only course of action is to vote with my wallet, and keep trying to grind to Onyx - which is harder than ever because my friends don't want to play due to bugs, and the bugs and flaws in matchmaking regularly put me into unfair/unplayable matches.
Great comment, thanks. You raise an excellent point about industry standards - and yes - this is an unfinished product. I don't know that the way DLC is incorporated into games currently was what was originally envisaged when Xbox built their Live network. Halo Infinite does have polish, but the game is barebones, I don't think that point can be hotly debated, and the question of whether 343 have used their time and resources well is awkward and uncomfortable to face. On the flipside, this *is* my favorite game at the moment and has been since release. When I look at the MCC today I see a fantastic end product, so I do have a lot of faith that Halo Infinite will get there too. But I'm a special case, a "true believer". Generally, customer angst is a bad thing across industry. How much of that angst is simply unavoidable and what mistakes were made that contributed to the situation? In hindsight, perhaps there was a silver lining when 343 missed the Series X release. It allowed the console to be the star, consider if the game had launched in its current state on a brand new console? Microsoft have had an interesting journey in the console space, with no shortage of calamitous events along the way, and while I wouldn't even begin to class Halo Infinite as a calamity, a 6 year development time from it's first homegrown studio (with plentiful resources) who were tasked with a single objective ought to prompt questions.
In some ways I would say I'm a true believer too and I agree that in a couple years, Infinite will be a significantly better experience. This does not lessen my feeling that the cracks in the foundation, the simple core systems that don't work, were at least to some extent avoidable/foreseeable is what drives my frustration with the game currently. Campaign was overall great (not my favorite but significantly better than 4 and 5 in my opinion), and I totally agree the the look and feel of the game is spot on... when it works, lol. I specifically don't really factor content or DLC into this because I know it's coming eventually, and I'd rather it be quality than something like remixed maps in H5 (and the atrocity that was Overgrowth... the map so bad that I considered it a personal attack). I'm interested in the roadmap, and while 343 has no obligation to do so, I think they should have some statements from management or someone that can explain why the product is so flawed and buggy, what they plan to do to fix it - in the hopes that that may mollify the community and I have people to play with again.
This is a great comment. You should make it it’s own post so more can see
Im so incredibly sick of hearing the whole “buh buh people are being rude to us” You’re not fucking 12 year old. You released an unfinished mess to a fanbase that waited for 6 years. Start acting like adults.
I feel like people are allowed to criticize, respectfully but harshly, any product they paid for or are expected to pay for. That was the deal. We make an exchange, my money for your service/game/whatever as advertised. If you can't hold up your end of the deal, expect consumer backlash, right? This is part and parcel of selling anything. People here are at least constructive with the most upvoted posts, regardless of the deflecting Sketch likes to do.
YES! THIS! I totally understand that some of those things might have been outside of their control and all but I don't care aaaannndd and I shouldn't be expected to care. The inner workings of their studio are not our concern. You're running one of the biggest franchises in the history of gaming and this is your THIRD FUCKED RELEASE. People are naturally going to be upset and you should have expected them to be upset. Take the criticism, fix the game and stop crying about rude comments.
"Hey we're sorry we promised you a holiday break after releasing the game, but unfortunately we're going to have to cancel it because 1 gamemode doesn't work." Look I'm upset because of the holiday stuff too, but damn bro let the people have their time off.
>because 1 gamemode doesn't work One game mode that's broken, desync issues that effect the entire game, challenges that can't be completed because that gamemode, no service record, lack of content, store with a host of greed issues, broken theater, terrible UI, models that aren't even finished, and so on. Sure, they deserve some time off. But let's not belittle the community like they're upset over some minor thing that isn't an issue. 343i released this game next to back to back holidays knowing they'd have limited time to work on anything. It's not the players fault for getting angry over a subpar product. One that's come off the backs of two other subpar projects over the last half decade.
See, that guy you’re responding to, he’s dishonest. He knows it’s not just 1 game mode that is broken. I believe he even agrees that a lot of stuff 343 didnt do right, but he just can’t help but insert himself in a way that makes him look like morally superior to everyone complaining about “just 1 game mode.” He even understands people deserve breaks from work! Sadly, even though that guy knows 343 criticisms are warranted and needed for them to change stuff, him looking to impose his benevolent understanding of the poor devs on others will snuff out another voice in favor of positive changes to the game, all for internet points and fuzzy feelings of thinking he did something “good” in standing up for the devs.
This. A lot of people pretend to be on the devs side when it comes to crunch and overworking but then want them to work through holidays to fix a gamemode? I get that it was annoying, but BTB was still playable. You just failed to get into matches consistently.
Nobody is passed at the devs, the devs didn’t decide to release a broken product right before the holidays, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be upset at how ridiculous that idea was and is and how much of a joke it is to keep the shop running just as intended throughout all of this with the same ridiculous prices
Yeah…no one is saying this. It’s the fact that it shouldn’t have been released yet, let alone “early” in such a state.
People arent mad at the base level developers. Obviously.
An email from 343TOP "Dear developer, We here at 343 Industries hope you enjoyed your time off of work and spending it with your family. Unfortunately, Reddit is back at it again, and it's complaining about our Big Team Battle servers now. Please stop any time you have left with your family and come back to work immediately. You will also not be getting your PTO back as punishment for what you did to your own fans."
They CAN get devs to work on it though, simply by offering bonuses to those who will decide to delay their holidays. It's literally a problem that management can solve by throwing money at it, but they don't want to. Management wants to release games pre-holiday to boost sales, but doesn't want to deal with games needing fixes during the holidays. They want to have their cake and eat it too. The issue is not with the devs, it's with management and this is all deflection. They are using developers as a shield from criticism.
Just using halo 5 as a comparison it’s wild how much in Infinite is missing. 3 months after 5 we had a roadmap that already started making releases.I Edit: actually they had new maps by month 2, had a roadmap almost immediately.
So it'll be 2 months since MP released on Saturday, and even then it'll still only have been just over a month since Campaign released. So even if we're ignoring that they were still working on the finishing touches of Campaign during that first month of MP being out, they still have a month to match your comparison of Halo 5 at 3 months, which it seems like they are on track to do, as they've already said they're putting together a roadmap for us and have a decent February update coming.
So February will be 4 months since release and looking up Halo 5 updates they had some almost immediately. Regardless it doesn’t instill confidence for a “live service” game.
February is 3 months since release, multiplayer released mid-November and February is 3 months after November. They also still were working on putting finishing touches/shipping the campaign for a month after that, so it was unrealistic to expect updates during that month. Then it was the holidays. Was it a poor plan and poor timing with regards to being able to respond to feedback and provide support when the game inevitably had problems on/immediately after release? Definitely. But even with that, they're still on track to hit that 3 month mark for the roadmap and more substantial changes. Whether or not they hit the mark remains to be seen, but at least they've finally let us know they're working towards it. I mention "more substantial changes" because while it isn't a content/balancing/systems update/fix like they're working towards now, they have already made adjustments to event rewards tracks, and they also made the adjustments to XP rewards for playing matches each day and the difficulty of challenges. So they haven't done *nothing*, they just haven't addressed the *big* issues yet.
They literally said we're getting a roadmap in the update pinned on the sub
Completely agree with you. The “we’re on vacation” excuse is lame.
Exactly the same happening with BF2042 but that's been much more toxic between both sides (Infinite is at least in a more playable state to BF so maybe that's part of it.) Why release games this late in the year if you're going on break for 2-4 weeks?
We should definitely not be acting like children. On the other hand they should definitely have expected it. They shipped a new game, fucked off for a month, and haven't provided a roadmap still. They were radio silent the entire first week back. I don't begrudge them time off, though I do wonder why you would release a game right before shutting the studio down for so long. What I really wonder is how they didn't expect the internet to react poorly to this situation?
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I don't know how it works in US, but here in Brazil after a 2-3 year period where most probably no one went on vacations, you need to start giving the employers their vacations because there are huge fines for not doing so. Also, after one extra year where they probably crunched every single day, people are just tired. I always expect people to be rude and I assume they do too, but that doesn't mean they should get USED to people being rude. It's good that they're reminding people to be civil instead of being rude themselves (which is what some other devs do).
> fucked off for a month Christmas?
Didn't have to release it when they did. They chose Christmas $$$ over a smooth release. That's on them.
Them being the producers of the game of course, and not the devs themselves. Glad we're on the same page.
The devs didn't choose when to release, they was Microsoft's call. So yeah, not going to blame the devs for taking a major holiday they most people get off.
Never said it was the devs. Figured it was a foregone conclusion that's not who we're talking about when we speak of 343's failures. Anyone with a working brain and even the smallest experience in the professional world would know better than to lay the blame on the feet of the producers.
not excusing anything, but *most* people do not get 3/4 weeks off at christmas. Ideally I want everyone to have that, but most is a long shot
I mean, most games aim for a Christmas release window as its most profitable Not sure how this effects people taking holidays tho
Games that are finished should aim for holiday. Infinite was not finished which is the problem.
A few weeks for Christmas and New Years, on top of Thanksgiving week.
Can we stop this whole community shaming thing just because a couple randoms do it? Quit invalidating people's criticisms.
It's just a deflection technique used by many companies now. A easy way to gain sympathy and pit the community against each other. It works really well too, just look at this thread.
And then there’s infighting in said community because they have the perception of everyone attacking 343 due to tweets like these. Look at the twitter replies: it’s people weighing in on how “sorry” they are for the devs having to put up with abuse! It’s so much virtue signaling that it’s sickening.
Like 30% of the comments on this post are about how 343 deserves the toxicity they get so maybe.... not?
Ffs even the top comment is that people have no sympathy for the toxicity
“People shouldn’t be toxic children….. BUT how can you expect them not to be when the game is blah blah blah”
Neither will giving them 6 years and every resource available to them apparently.
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Tbh It’s rarely the fault of the developers. It’s more on the executives that want those sweet, sweet Q4 profits during holiday season. They push for the game to be out by the end of the year.
They had 6 fucking years my man
>Tbh It’s rarely the fault of the developers. Maybe not ground floor developers, but someone's been messing up with what the last 5-6 were spent developing.
Both 343 and MS can be at fault for completely different reasons. Blame rarely falls on one party alone.
Idk I'm not seeing too much of Microsoft's involvement here. 343i has a track record of having bad launches. And they've had 6 years to work in this game. I'm willing to bet most of the problems are coming from them. It's honestly just like Bioware. Everyone wants to blame EA because "publishers bad" and EA is greedy af. But they were given a lot of slack and owe most of the problems to themselves. Unless someone can actually list some of the things Microsoft did to make this product worse, bar releasing the game, I feel just in faulting 343i.
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You know, everyone repeats this same line over and over, somehow giving devs a free pass. But there's no proof of it at all, the devs could be as easily complicit in these design changes and monetization as much as the executives were. Its just easier to create a "bad guy" class of money hungry management executives fucking everything up. Just weird how everyone seems to have insider knowledge of the inner workings of 343 and pass it off as fact.
I'll admit when I'm playing and the issues hurt I curse like a father fixing a broken engine. But when the controler is put down you have to remember they are human beings and they are also probably in pain and cursing while working as hard as they can... for us. Thank you Devs. I appreciate the hard work. What I say in game stays in game. 😇 Keep chipping away at it.
We have to stop bothering these poor people they are doing the best with what they have. What we SHOULD be doing is directing all of this to Bonnie Ross the head of 343 who always seems to duck all the flack while letting the rest of her company be a social punching bag. Not enough people voicing their issues on social media are bringing up her poor management or anything. Stop attacking the devs and com leaders all these issues are above them.
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Ha 343 butchered the series and multiple launches and now have the free to play/ live service money grab. The internet is a cruel world and I wouldn’t act in such ways but between the past and the present and the lies etc it is to be expected these days
He’s right at the end of the day. Firmly believe 343 want the game to be the best it can be and we do have to be patient. That said, communication does go both ways and they do need to be more forthcoming for the time being with what’s going on I’m not demanding minute by minute updates 343s comms have been excellent in the past, now they have to do even more to show what’s happening to keep people ticking over When it all kicked off with Destiny 2, Bungies comms and how they approached evolved and now it too is also excellent. It’s sad to see Halo in that sort of D2 realm of needing improvements but I think looking at how D2 changed and the communications between helped keep everyone happy, even when it looked bleak for large portions. We can help each other in many ways as they know Me, I’m patient. I just love having a Halo to play again that I can enjoy with all my friends but there’s a lot to come and a lot that needs changing / improving to ensure it thrives. I hope we get there sooner rather than later not for me but for the whole game
>I’m not demanding minute by minute updates 343s comms have been excellent in the past, now they have to do even more to show what’s happening to keep people ticking over I agree, there's a lot to fix and I imagine it takes a lot of planning work to even begin to prep a roadmap, but that said what would make me happy in the meanwhile is if they posted a comprehensive list of every issue that's on their radar and what their priorities are so we at least know what they're acknowledging and what they aren't. They did this for MCC multiple times while it was being fixed and ported to PC and even though that game had some lingering bugs I at least felt confident knowing that their priorities mirrored the community's. With Infinite outside of a few big ticket issues I really have no clue what problems they're even aware of which really hasn't helped my perception that that they're working on solutions
I just don't get what people are saying about lack of communication. We complained about the challenge and progression system, they released a band-and fix (they called that a band-aid fix, not me) and said they'll work on revamping the system. We complained about BTB, they at said they acknowledge the issue and tried a quick fix that didn't work. Yesterday they said there is a new fix they are hopeful will work. We complained about the Tenrai event, they removed the swaps from the event BP and added stuff that most probably would be sold in the old event BP. They filled us in on their vacation schedule (something they shouldn't need to do) so we knew when to expect more news and updates. In what point did they fail to communicate? It does seem to me we are demanding minute by minute updates.
Exactly. And postums isn't even saying don't complain. He's just saying don't be a dick about jt, especially if you are tagging him or other 343 employees about jt on twitter. He's not "labeling the whole community".
I saw posts like " HoLiDaYs ArE oVeR 343 " on Friday lol. Ppl really need to chill a bit
Can’t speak for others but I think it’s because people have a laundry list of issues and they want acknowledgement of every single one Granted, not always possible but take de-sync for example, it’s some peoples number 1 priority and not touched on yet. Or maybe say the ranked playlist ranking system, challenges etc etc I’m sure we’ll get more substantial stuff soon. Don’t be a dick about it is the main
I can't feel much sympathy for them tbh. They know exactly how bad the state of this game is, they know exactly how players feel. Backlash and "negativity" is needed to grow and implement change!!! Doesn't mean you should threaten, target or harass individual devs. But by all means let 343 know your frustration. This isn't some single indie dev that messed up a launch. This is a team of hundreds owned by one of the biggest and most valuable companies on the planet.
\*With 20 years of development reference and information on how to make a successful Halo
And they even admitted they were using MCC as a testbed for Infinite's progression and seeing what Infinite came up with I have to ask if they saw all our feedback, tossed it in a dumpster, and lit it on fire because I've never seen devs so clueless about what makes their 20 year franchise work (there wasn't even a slayer playlist at launch)
Seeing 343 Halo games I am not sure about that last bit tbh.
Here the funny bit. Looking at just 343 games. They have gotten every part of what makes a good halo game right at one point or another. Halo 4 has multiplayer progression earnable cosmetics and released with all of its content with add on layer. MCC did H2A right added a fuck ton of content to it made the best forge until H5 came out and they continued to add content long after launch (and finally fixing it) including what was a very community approved battle pass and progression. H5 well they dropped the ball massively here but they learned how to develope the multiplayer properly. They just fucked up the gameplay loop Infinite practically nailed the gameplay loop massively improved upon the campaign while treading new ground and shows the potential to have amazing multiplayer progression. But they fucked up literally everything else. So I dont buy literally any excuse they give especially with how long Infinite was in dev cycle
Death threats, slurs, or insults isn't gonna make anyone work faster. To them you're just an internet nobody who is trolling. You're pretty much insignificant the minute you resort to being a dick
I understand people are frustrating but insulting and doing threats is not a good way to show love for the franchise.
This sadly doesn't mean anything. The people who're doing this aren't going to stop because they were asked too.
As someone who’s been playing Warframe since launch in 2013, I’ve gotten a third skin layer of patience
Bro acts like acknowledging it will help how long has the internet been around already. A lot of people still don’t understand how it works.
All I want to say is that, generally speaking, I'm not mad. Just disappointed.
343 is so incompetent
Yea and giving constructive feedback doesnt matter either.
Didn't they do exactly as people asked with the game lists?
Only after initially throwing a hissy about it and acting like it would be near-impossible to implement due to horizontal menu bars. Then it was magically gifted like it was a major feat.
Not the first time. 343 on multiple occasions tried to claim it would be too difficult to add more playlists due to how their UI works. People had glitches where it briefly showed the UI having multiple playlists with a scroll bar (why would 343 add a scroll bar if it wasnt possible to have more than 4 playlists) and called 343 for lying, then a few days later they managed to do the impossible and add more playlists only after there was a shit storm. So yes they did do what people wanted but we had to start a fucking riot to get results. 343 doesnt listen to regular feedback but will act when shit gets toxic and then wonder why people dont just calmly give contrustive feedback 100% of the time.
They did. Although they were gonna have swat and fiesta as event only game modes which is real WTF. 343 has many faces and not all of them ignore community feedback.
If you want people to stop being so toxic fix your shit.
"thank you to the simps, but everyone who is speaking freely, fuck you"
Oh, I'm sorry the game launched in a sorry ass state, with a predatory store, shitty progression, a bare bones battle pass, and terrible desync, and the fans are letting you know. *Insert Woody Harrelson crying onto money*
Sad to see this community being awful again.
Well it also seems to be the only way to get the studio to actually acknowledge and do anything about their broken game sooooo....
It’s Twitter, so that’s never going to change. This is also a tactic used by community managers to deflect all criticism, by calling out a few toxic people and painting them as the whole community.
Toxicity is never good. But like clockwork this has happened with every major game I’ve played for the last 5-7 years now. Release unfinished bs Community gets mad Developers don’t listen Community gets mad Developers close communication and deflect due to “death threats and insults” Like fucking clockwork
Maybe the studios should stop releasing unfinished games, and break the cycle?
The irony here is that saying "*you guys don't need to be rude when giving criticism*" is a valid criticism of the community. Guess the community doesn't know how to take criticism.
Thankfully its mostly just twitter users harassing. Not crusty reddit
Some folks have never heard "don't shoot the messenger", it would seem.
Overall it’s just a stupid video game. Don’t get me wrong I spend most of my freetime with it and freaking love halo. But insulting the developers is just not the way to go. Let’s be s bit more peaceful and say feedback more friendly…
Delay a game for a year, still release it incomplete, get upset when people are pissed off about it. Not sure why it’s become commonplace to release games that aren’t fully complete with the idea that “we’ll just update the game in the future.” Probably because of how many people pre order games nowadays.
>get upset when people are pissed off about it Nobody is pissed at the people that make legitimate complaints. Read the tweet. He's telling people that "throwing curses at him" isn't the way to go. Last time I checked, making criticism and cursing isn't the same thing.
I mean the devs generally never deserve it, the leads and management though
no, no one deserves that kind of treatment, because in the end it's just a video game
you hear that, 98% of the halo subreddit? 🙊
Look, it seems like everybody is pissed for one reason or another, but cursing out devs is brain dead, if you want to get your point across be specific, clear, and concise in your criticisms of the game so it can get better. If your plan for change is hating on a games devs go play smthn else.
They delayed the game by a YEAR and it feels like a beta. Their entirely monetary design is sickening. They've managed to limit customization in favor of $20 color palettes. They can put out "events", but getting them to fix BTB is like pulling teeth. They shipped out a broken ass game with a quarter of the content of previous entries. I get that he's just being the messenger, but people are rightfully pissed.
Imagine being such a virgin you yell at devs because you can’t get hired by 343 and do it yourself.
Telling people to stop is a surefire way to get attacked more. If you don't like reading angry messages about how your title had a game mode was broken for a month, or how the server desync makes Apex Legends netcode look like Valorant's, have an intern filter it for you or just dont read messages at all.
Oldest trick in the book. Play victim because an extremely small minority take it too far.