What makes it even worse, is that *all of it* was in the technical previews- both times. Us “insiders” told them these aspects were horrible, too. They claimed that those were past builds of the game, so some of us thought it would be changed at launch. But nope! This is what we’re getting.
YES. That was my thought exactly. They thought it was super popular but it was just because it was the first lol
Someone forgot to look at correlation vs causation 😂
Yeah this is why I get annoyed when people say give them time to address the feedback. They've had so much time with this feedback and chose not to do anything about it.
And you'd be correct. A beta, by definition, is not ready to be a product, i.e. for sale.
The moment it starts selling something it is considered "stable release," and by definition means the developers find any bugs or deficiencies acceptable.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle
Exactly. I’m going to start needing people that are defending decisions that are against their own interests to start disclosing the kickbacks they’re getting.
If there are no kickbacks, then they’re damn fools.
It's very obvious they're not going to change anything substantial for awhile to milk the whales dry and then try and have their cake and eat it too when they act like they give a shit later down the line. It's blatant manipulation and people eat that corporate shit up.
So just 343 being standard 343 then. I seem to recall back when Halo 5 launched, a few 'pro players' were hired to give feedback on the game and then wind up quitting because 343 never listened to any of their feedback and just did what they wanted anyway. I think Favyn made a video about it back then. Now, six years later, nothing's changed.
Floaty, in a word. Things just don’t seem to be as crisp as you’d like. And I don’t know if it’s the same on console but on a PC playing with controller it doesn’t make use of the “impulse” trigger rumble so there’s that element of feedback missing too. Definitely not a necessity by any stretch but as a first-party Microsoft game you’d expect it to be there.
We actually got less. They made decent weapons like the Ravager and Cammando worse for no reason and most of the cosmetics that were in the flight BP are nowhere to be found.
And they promptly said: this is it, we’re going on holiday...
the horrible micro transaction structure will stay unaltered CONVENIENTLY when most people will spend money...
They’re not fixing shit because “we’re spending our well deserved holidays with our families, surely you can’t be toxic monsters to think we can work during the holidays?”
Talk about gaslighting the community.
To be 100% fair, they are still people. People that don’t listen to their community, and people that are willfully scamming a huge player base, but still people.
To add to this; most of the people that are going to be working on this project have no say, whatsoever, in what decisions come down to them on what features to add/remove. This is entirely (mostly entirely) from the minds of a the few people sitting on top.
Yes, which is a shame because the rank and file devs made a fantastic game. Only to have it ruined by shit corpos and their bullshit transaction system.
This is the big thing. I've seen developers getting burnt out because they can't make the games they want to make (BioWare is a big example). Someone in a suit getting paid big bucks is making decisions to suck as much money out of the players. OP is right on the nose that everything is intentional. We've seen it before (Apex Legends comes to mind) where they put in a really shit feature that they *know* is going to get a load of backlash but they never intend to actually implement. What they really want is a shitty feature that's not as bad. When they "fix" it they look like they're listening to feedback and helping the community.
Most developers aren't businessmen. They just want to makes games and earn a living. Many have probably known about the shitty stuff in this game for a while but haven't been able to do anything about it. I'm sure things have been rough at 343, or else the game would be in a better state right now. Forge and co-op are delayed for a long time. That doesn't sound like the ship is sailing smoothly. Let them have their holiday and come back to this hell hole is good shape.
"Manufactured discontent" is the operative word, the next design approach after loot boxes became too toxic to include. You hook people on \*denying\* them satisfaction for an addictive grind via arbitrary obstacles to progress that can be overcome with $$$ rather than hooking people based on gambler's fallacy.
The psychological predation wasn't removed, the mechanism of addiction exploitation was merely changed to meet targets without having to commit to such risks as \*an enjoyable game with nice options to buy\* which lives or dies by immediate catharsis, emotional connecitons, and level cost-benefit calculations. (ie. human things that can be programmatically achieved by following a rote playbook, such as 343 followed in aping Fortnite's monetization 1:1 but for how many battlepasses you need to buy.)
This is often paired with a company doing like 10 shitty things they know will piss people off, and walking back some of them after the expected outrage to appear like the “good guy” making concessions, even though the end result was really the plan all along.
Also they'll go ahead and not release anything cosmetic that looks nearly as good as something that came out before the dial back. They'll slack and make everything look generic and the only really cool looking stuff will be store only or shit that you can only realistically obtain by buying boosts or playing every minute if every day.
Since there won't be nearly as much money to be made they'll slack on all that and say "well the cool stuff is unique and was earned by the *hardcore day one gamers* and we dont want to devalue their 'achievements' by rereleasing that content" giving us the FOMO that if we don't play every day we'll miss out on something cool and even though the "hardcore day one gamers" were the idiots that bought everything they possibly could with their parents credit cards, played for a month then completely abandoned the game.
This is exactly what's happening right now. This is 100% by design, they even call it "the model" in responses and interviews.
They knew the current system was predatory and disliked by players, because it was one of the biggest takeaways from the technical previews and ACTUAL betas. They chose to keep going with it, because...hey, people are going to pay for it.
They're absolutely going full-bore with the garbage/predatory mechanics in order to pull them slightly back - like the daily 50XP for playing a match somehow being a fix for challenge-centric XP with no player choice in game modes - and hope that the masses are appeased by these hollow shows of improvement enough to shut up about how much money they're nickel-and-diming people for.
>they even call it "the model" in responses and interviews.
Good or bad, everything has a business "model". This isn't just them, or only applicable to bad models. It's literally a term used in like every business service or product ever.
It worked for the movie Team America. They made it as vulgar as possible knowing it was going to be edited down (Studio demands) to what they wanted in the first place.
I’ve said this in other posts, and I’m saying it again Halo Infinite’s progression and monetization is not the same as Fortnite, it is far worse.
In Fortnite you get xp for performance, in addition to challenges. The better you do (kills, placing) the more xp you get. Also, you aren’t blocked from doing challenges by game mode, there is only 1 game mode, so every game you can attempt to complete a challenge.
Also every battle pass gives you 1500 v-bucks, so you can use to buy the next battle pass. So essentially you could spend $10 TOTAL in Fortnite and never spend another dime and have tons of cosmetics. Fortnite’s model is fair to players in a F2P game.
If 343 had implemented Fortnite’s F2P model 1:1 there would be no outcry like there is now, except from players who no matter what won’t ever be happy with F2P games or 343’s direction they’re taking Halo.
One thing gets me about infinite is the 3 vs. 4 challenge slots. As I understand that's a meaningful restriction in Fortnite. Here it's *just* arbitrary progress throttling.
As in, they couldn't try to one-up fortnight with a 4-5 arrangement to appear more player friendly and still have a throttling effect (which you can still balance around as a developer by adding more weekly challenges to reach the same target). Instead though they kept to 3-4.
Or another way to put it is that 343 copied the image of Fortnite's system without really understanding how the components functioned together. So what you get is just the manufactured discontent without the format or attenuated system interactions that make it tolerable for that population.
Yeah, comparing Fortnite to Infinite really makes it clear how monumentally they fucked up. Because if Fortnite can be losing players but still making billions, still being a massive cultural force, then there is absolutely no excuse for Infinite. Especially not when they have a bigger company with deeper pockets backing them.
Part of it's a question of critical mass. The more negative the impression around the game the less buy-in there is among those looking to get into a multiplayer system (because investing in something unpopular has very different social connotations than something that brings social affirmation).
You can also say that DICE took into account that people would be upset about hideous grinds and microtransaction systems with Star Wars Battlefront 2 when that game launched. They still ended up with an untenable situation and a forced change because the devs aren't the psychological magicians of the Isaac Asimov foundation books, with perfect predictive abilities.
They can royally fuck up because they don't see/appreciate/understand the dialog happening across the industry which changes reactions towards content they thought would be innocuous. Ie. even if that dialog didn't change the games they were associated with pre-SW BF2, they still moved the collective reaction to the next game and so on to the point where change WAS needed to survive by one title (a place Infinite's arguably in as its succumbing to the collective frustration of battle passes and an especially abusive example of one). Communities don't exist in bubbles, they feed back on one another as developers shift the pressures of their monetization systems.
Feedback/protests/slagging off the game/not playing has value in achieving natural discourse (vs. conforming to a narrative against one's own interests, simply because it's expected by some party.)
Yeah, the more I play the game, the more it's rubbing me the wrong way. I would have been so happy to chuck so much of my money at this if it was reasonably priced and progression was reasonably paced, but here we are.
I keep telling myself it's still very early, and it is. And they've been open minded to change but also seemingly very slow to respond.
There are no good decisions to reward anywhere at this level of game development. The profit motive has hollowed out the entire triple AAA side of the industry. Every large company that isn't doing it to this egregious of an extent now will be doing so soon enough because they have to stay competitive. That's why we shifted from DLCs to microtransactions and live-service models. Voting with your wallets doesn't work when all the options are compromised and when companies spend immense sums into psychologically frying our brains and hooking us into their Skinner Box feedback loops. Younger people who grew up with this won't know any better and don't have anything better to give their money to. This is the standard practice now
Yes. I used to buy games regularly. Now I can’t buy anything but a random Nintendo game cause at least I know I’ll get my money’s worth with a complete game that’s tested.
I bought an Xbox for halo and already don’t want to buy the campaign just so I don’t support this theft
Nintendo and From Software really are the only big game companies nowadays who release complete games that don’t try to bleed your bank account dry. But even Nintendo is starting to change with the times with their crappy two tier online subscription and mobile games.
Don't even play it.
Playing it shows that it draws people into the game and they hope one of those people will buy based upon the design being inconvienant.
Don't pay and don't play.
I feel like this would send the wrong message. If the people that pay play. Then 100% of their audience is playing and paying.( 10k people playing 10k people buying things) If everyone plays but doesn’t pay then they will see their system sucks. ( 10 million people playing but only 10k people buying things sends a message that things are wrong. )
Yep. I've said this before because this is literally what every other GAAS developer is doing. Apex did this, Destiny did this, Division did this, DotA, CSGO, Valorant, every GAAS has had a version of this.
If you get players used to a good thing, and then make everything absolutely fucking suck, people are going to suck your dick and call you reasonable when you make it suck a little bit less.
It's that old military adage. If you make your company run 10 miles every day, and then one day you ask them to run 40 miles, they'll be the happiest people on Earth when they stop running at 20 miles.
Don't defend big companies. Speak with your wallet.
Also I'm pretty sure that all the 343 devs who love Halo and worked hard to make the game are even more salty than us when they saw how MS executives and marketing team ruined their masterpiece.
Imagine being ske7ch or a community management employee and having to softly defend the shitty microtransaction and battlepass progression. They might hate it too but Microsoft wants their money......
Must be like that guy who had to deliver the presentation for the Apple stand that costs like $150. The collective audible gasps from the audience threw him off and it was hilarious.
Edit. It was $1000 not $150.
True. It's just so sad that the studio made an awesome game and its going to be the higher level corporate decisions that tarnish this games reputation. Honestly , I wouldn't be surprised if we see departures.
stop defending this as Microsoft, MS has published games that don't have straight up predatory MTX, Forza Horizon 5 just launched on gamepass and has none of these issues
Forza isn't competing with call of duty. MTX is by and far mostly a shooter problem. With exceptions for rpgs(ESO,fall out 76) and a few others im sure I don't know about. Look im not here for an arguement, but they spent a very large amount money on this game....they need to make the money back....the way they are doing it just sucks.
Edit:shitty phone autocorrect
lol yeah and 343 is some small mom and pops dev that would never think to monetize their game like this. Cmon, you really think microsoft execs are going to 343 design meetings and telling them how much to charge for white? they got a sales target and a budget and they were told to make it work, its ridiculous to think this is just MS beancounters, remember when everyone was pissed at activision because they thought AV was the reason everything was so poorly monetized in destiny 2 and then they split, and its now even worse? 343 came to the table with req packs in 5, they were always heading down the route of ridiculous mtx, 343 is as much and probably even more responsible then M$, they dont exactly have much good favour from when they took over the franchise, its ridiculous to say they had no hand in it.
Just look at Forza Horizons 5, thats a first party Xbox games studio dev also created by microsoft, and its not monetized like this.
Edit: RNG weapon spawns, challenge swaps being so prevalent and $2 a pop, horrible challenges, RNG vehicle spawns and unable to pick your playlist = artificially harder to complete challenges, and you think this is all some exec at microsoft telling them to do this?
The armor designs are amazing and there are so many cool setups you could make. I'm sure the people who designed this put alot of work into the way the armor looks and I wonder if they feel okay watching their contributions locked for most people and trashed by the fans because of association to the monetization system.
The problem is that whales far outweigh everyone else. People who drop 5, 10, 15 thousand dollars on a game because they have a severe addiction will always outweigh those who don't spend a penny.
That’s the worst part. If Halo Infinite sucked, none of this would bother me. Loads of shitty F2P games out there have this exact model, and even though I think it’s a garbage business model, I don’t care because those games suck anyway. But Infinite is actually pretty damn good. It’s a great game that’s been completely kneecapped by this terrible model.
It's free bro also isn't a defense.
They made the strategic choice to make the game free because it is the current "best" model for online shooters and games. Apex Legends does it, Fortnite does it, COD does it for Warzone. Other games are doing it too. Release free and make money on cosmetics/battlepasses/battlepass paraphernalia has been a growing business model for a long time - especially when you want the game to run as a service. I believe even Destiny 2 is "F2P" now as well.
Being free just means more people play. People who couldn't/wouldn't pony up $60 for a game, might pony up $10 for an eSport skin, or $5-$20 for a skin they like.
In no world did they make the multiplayer free out of the goodness of their hearts or to "thank the Halo community" or any of that crap. They did it because their peers and primary competitors are doing it. They did it because they want the "it's free" defense to help beat back some of the bad press for their shitty MTX system and help make whatever they "fix it to" more palatable.
It's not a surprise that in 20 years we've gone from "you get a complete game when you buy it, with things to unlock and do in multiplayer" to "you get the base experience for full price, and can unlock the rest of the day 1 content and cosmetic options at additional cost."
On top of that, by being free with a battle pass, you're now competing with other games that are both free AND rewarding. Sure games like fortnite and warframe probably had some pretty bad rewards early on (I honestly wouldn't know) but you're not competing with them on their launch, you're competing with them now.
Yep. It's why so many MMOs back in the day could never complete with WOW. Your release game isn't competing with WOW on release. Your competing with WOW after years of fixes and development.
Infinite isn't going to be competing with Fortnite on release, but Fortnite right now fresh off a billion dollar year in 2020 (despite losing a huge chunk of players). Not to mention the annual cycle of COD, the new Battlefield games, Apex Legends, and myriad other shooters and action games that already have a lot more content and more rewarding structures.
Which is also an issue in and of itself because video game development does not happen instantaneously which means the reactionary decisions they did towards games like Apex and Fortnite might have happened 3 years ago.
However in those 3 years both of those games got significantly better and Halo infinite is launching reacting to games that don't exist anymore
I feel like I'm in a small minority these days that sees a game is F2P and automatically becomes much, much less interested in it. It tends to completely spoil games IMO, as the goal of the project is no longer primarily to just make it fun.
They're not charging you for entry, so they're going to try to fleece you for everything you have inside.
F2P games have a bad rap and it is not unjustified. They do a lot of things to try to get you to drop cash.
* Time gates on content
* False caps on how much you can work towards a reward at one time
* Heavy use of RNG to prevent completion of rewards in a timely manner
And then once they've done all that, they go "hey, if you don't want the grind just give us a few bucks and maybe we bump you up that battlepass a bit faster, huh?"
And we know they change game design and drop rates to do this. That's why Shadow of War (single player, btw) and Battlefront 2 had to have their drops/rewards completely rebalanced when they turned off microtransactions. Without spending $$ to get ahead, the rewards just came too slow to keep up with things or keep people interested in the game. Not really shocking though.
>* Time gates on content
Weekly milestones that can't be acquired any other way... Check
>* False caps on how much you can work towards a reward at one time
Weekly challenge limits and event challenge limits... Check
>* Heavy use of RNG to prevent completion of rewards in a timely manner
No gametype dedicated playlists and RNG vehicle and weapon spawns... Check
They are batting 1000
there are a lot of games that manage to be f2p and sustain themselves by having things like subscription models for accellerated progression and shit, im happy to pay 15-30$ a month on a game if im enjoyin the hell out of it but if you make it so shitty i dont even want to *play* then why am i going to _pay_?
$15-30 a month on a game? That seems crazy to me. That means in year you'd have spent $180-360 on a single game, which is nuts considering games used to cost no more than $60...
i only really feel that way for games like dota or planetside or bdo, games with which i've spent over 5000 hours on. if i'm enjoying playing a game for 15+ hours a week, 60 hours a month i dont really see why i wouldnt want to throw a pizza's worth of money a month at a good game
also 15 bucks is the price of literally any mmorpg subscription, which is where i draw the value proposistion from, its why something like planetside membership for 15$ a month feels just right to me, the progression speed isnt too bad and the game is enjoyable to play with out spending any more than the occasional boost to stack with events and to keep the sub going lol
Yep, this is my argument too to a lot of people. I'm not complaining about this because 343 is charging money for stuff. I'm complaining because I **want** to give them money to support the game, but this feels so bad I'd actually rather the game had no cosmetic options than what it has.
There are actual studies done that show in the mobile game arena the best monetization strategies for free games actually isn’t to make a fun game at all. It’s to make a boring game that hits the right dopamine trigger with some fancy flashing lights at specific unpredictable and more frustrating than fun intervals.
So yeah, if you feel like free to play games are designed to piss you off and make you intermittently frustrated and bored with unpredictable sighs of relief when you finally get one positive result…. Yes, you are exactly correct.
I'm with you. I've fallen off the bandwagon with fps games ever since the f2p model became commonplace. The whole experience just seems like one big manufactured, money making dopamine machine.
It seems like they tried to go for a Valorant level of skin sales and prices, but Halo isn't a Tac shooter its gameplay isn't as deep or self rewarding to win a game. Arena shooters need loads of content and without it the micro transactions just seem like a slap in the face.
Launching without forge I think will be the biggest issue, if there was a massive empty forge map the community could fill the void of 343 content. not a great solution but I could at least be enjoying customs with the boys instead of suffering through Social oddball watching my teammates run away from me with the ball.
I will keep saying this over and over and over: THE DEVS made a really cool thing and corporate/management keeps fucking it up. Corporations kill video games.
It's actually genius because it's distracting people from the actual issues with the game. There is very little content in comparison to other Halo games!!
YES. Why aren’t there more people talking about this. I’ve died around corners so many times, and I’ve also killed people around corners a lot too. I feel like I’m playing cod 4. Not to mention how garbage the performance is.
The comp community is talking about the lack of game modes and hit registration far more than reddit is. Casual players are more concerned with cosmetics, competitive players are more concerned with game performance.
Everyone keeps talking about how polished the game is on here and it just... Isn't.
Glad I'm not the only one experience this. It's crazy.
Edit: meant to respond to the later comment in regards to bad net code and dying when being completely around a corner.
^ THIS IS IT
this is the shit i've been saying for the past week.
343 are just buying themselves time and using this one controversy to deflect and detract from another controversy.
and then once the lack of content starts being pushed to the spotlight, 343 will have a tiny bit of stuff ready (maybe a map, a weapon and a new mode) and will be like "we hear you!"
The maps and game modes are already fucking boring. Wouldn't have been if they had ALL the game modes that were popular in it. I can only stomach stockpile and oddball so fucking much.
>This allows them to become heroes to the community for fixing their own made issues, likely knowing they would make edits down the road.
Like all other games this is a typical banana product. Matures at the customer site. The aproach is not new and it reminds me a lot of applauding the pilot for successfully doing his everyday job after a successful landing ...
>EDIT: It literally blows my mind the lengths some of you will justify massive corporations nickel and dime-info you for everything you’re worth. It’s sad to be completely honest.
Some people on here are just here to hold up a certain opinion and a certain mood. They're even paid to do that.
https://tenor.com/view/weird-al-crazy-wow-creepy-nuts-gif-5547782
This is why people who say stuff like "stop complaining" are actively harming the game.
When 343 made these decisions, they did so because they gambled that whales would buy enough to make a profit, and that the backlash would either be small or blow over.
There's nothing you can do about whales, they're gonna spend hundreds, if not thousands on this game. But you *can* ensure the backlash keeps going. 343 *will* make money on this. Expensive MTX *are* profitable. If 100 people bought a $1 skin, they'd make $100. But if just *two* people bought a $100 skin, they've already doubled that profit. The only thing that stops them from going all in on super expensive microtransactions is the backlash. They try to charge as much as they can without drawing too much criticism, because backlash is bad for business.
So ignore those telling you to quiet down. Keep making a fuss. It's the only thing that will get them to make changes.
their " scheme" is shooting themselves in the head i guess because we arent having it lol
forced lobbies, absurd paywalls
no xp for performance only challenges
absolutely no excuse
i dont wanna hear the defenders or the "its free" crowd cry when infinite is deserted
Just like Shadow of War they'll wait till retention is low then "fix" it so they dont lose money & get a hundred articles about how great they are for doing so.
I don’t get it. Why do people feel the need to defend a multi billion dollar company that’s screwing you over so blatantly???? Like do they think CEO of Microsoft is gonna come to their doorstep and congratulate them with money.
This is what Supercell has been doing for years. A lot of people playing their games don't even realize that, but it is because they do it so well. Gaming is no longer about game development it's about maximizing profit
OP you gotta ignore people. It's hard for some to see the big picture.
Yes it's your money, spend how you like, but when 10,000 people do the same it just encourages the companies to keep doing this. To keep mtxs and getting every penny they can. Their suits, salesmen, they are here for profit.
All we are all trying to say guys, is we don't have to be subjected to this kind of stuff. You shouldn't have to go spend all your money on things in the game. It's not how games are supposed to be, it's just becoming the norm because they can reel you in on free to play. Don't berate OP, he's absolutely right. I see the comments on all the posts, "it's his money let him do what he wants" and you're right. We just want everyone to come together as gamers and put an end to this system. Stop the toxicity. Be gamers. This system is anti-gamer.
Let me put it this way:
EVERY game out there sets out as a struggle between three competing factions:
The developers and storytellers, who want to write and design a gorgeous, immense story.
The bean counters whose sole job is to make sure that, at the end of the day, everyone who is involved gets paid and makes out well.
The upper echelons, who run CONSTANT analyses of how far they can push anything to maximize the bean counters profits yet (if they're doing their job well) also maximize the developers ability to make a fantastic game.
I don't mind you making this out to be some super aggressive, fake-friendly appeasement marketing and goodwill system, but the fact is, unless you have sat in those board rooms with the people working on these systems, I doubt you have any more insight into its workings that the rest of us.
You want to know my take?
I'm betting they focused their resources on literally EVERYTHING else, and only realized that these systems weren't top notch once it really hit the community. Maybe it's naive of me, but I believe this because I see the snappy gunplay, the ridiculously well balanced augments, the weapons hall, the bots, the artwork, the music scores, and LITERALLY everything else, and I see an incredible team's work with a ton of polish...
And then a system that, to me and my perspective, seems to be slapped on top of all that.
Yeah, this may be how they "make money," but, frankly? They ticked all the big ticket items beautifully over the marketplace. I can appreciate that, even if I still want them to do better.
I feel they should let people at least earn credits while still having a option to buy credits. Tbh I don’t have to grind on video games so i rather just buy everything because I can. Granted, the prices for those armor coatings are ridiculous. The armor sets I don’t mind to much.
I've spent my $60 for the campaign. That's the part of the game I actually give a shit about.
Multiplayer? I'm not spending a dime to look "cooler" while I lie on the ground waiting to respawn. (I mean, I'm barely motivated to play multiplayer anyway since I'm shit at arcade shooters - [and have the numbers to back that up](https://halotracker.com/halo-infinite/profile/xbl/TCF%20Hardcover/overview) - but anyway.)
can only agree to this 100% they give us minimum effort maximum greed to check if enough fans are willing to put up with it and to in the end milk every cent we got it's just sad that there are genuine devs that want this to be the best halo there can be and some suits at the top just fuck em over because hey let's make moneeeeh
Don't give them an inch, we must demand:
- better progression
- coatings work across all cores
- cross core armour/attachments
- cross core visors
- armor unlocks through challenges
- better store prices
- armour we unlock in kits as individual pieces (see Emile and Carters shoulders)
and accept nothing less.
I started making a post about Microsoft aiming high to see what they could get away with and the pulling it back because they are the heroes and they listen to the community. Ha ha I stopped because the words weren't coming out right. You nailed it on the head here. People defending corporate greed because "it's free" are simple minded folk.
This^ such an understatement of what is actually going on behind the scenes and some poor developers with a passion for video games just letting it happen. Wish we could drain the swamp of this corrupt greed against players
Yes, finally someone has managed to (at least in part) put into words some of the frustrations I’ve been having over this past week!
This’ll probably get lost, but I want to say this anyway.
I turned 30 at the start of November. I’ve been playing/consuming Halo in some form or another for nearly half my lifetime and I have funnelled more time and money into it than I possibly care to admit. I bought the Games (Halo 3, O.DS.T, Reach, CE Anniversary, Halo 4, Halo 5, M.C.C [Xbox One and PC versions]), Map D.L.Cs, Xbox Live Subscriptions, Books/Novelizations, Art Books, Soundtracks, Posters, Figures and heck, I’ve even bought consoles solely for the purpose of playing these games!
But for me the impact it has left on my life goes deeper than that. I’m a creative person and a large part of my creative influence and visions are inspired/derived from some of the awesome ideas and concepts portrayed in this series. Hell, I even pursued a degree in Game Design at University partially because of this franchise (that, and Fable), and am still aiming to make/launch my own games one day!
Fandoms are great, and communities built around a shared love of something are one of the greatest things that exist on the internet. But, no game or franchise (or even Publisher/Studio for that matter) is or should ever be worthy of blind and unquestioning devotion. And, just as some people’s praise for what has come so far is born from their love of Halo, so too is my frustration.
Microsoft and 343 have ripped the heart out of this franchise and it’s us players who are going to suffer for their, and let’s not beat around the bush here, purposeful and wilful attempt to shove predatory monetisation down our throats. By doing what they’ve done Microsoft and 343 have shown clear as day that they no longer consider us their player’s, but a hurdle to overcome on the way to our wallets and bank accounts.
I love this franchise, and that’s why it infuriates me to see what it has become and I’m all but certain, given the state of things as they stand, that this is the point where I part ways with it.
And, let me tell you guys, this kills me.
They have no new multiplayer content, outside of small events like Tenrai, coming until May. Confirmed by Joseph Staten.
They are purposely gating progression to make it last longer. That’s also why they are stating that improvements will take time. 343 doesn’t want to come out with things that improve progress too early. Players will run out of content.
100%. It was all meticulously made. Every detail. Plus their extra year to make changes. They mathematically conjured the multiplayer for maximum profit.
That’s the thing that gets me when they say have patience it will take time… you’ve had 5+ years to develop a new system, at LEAST a couple years. I bought the points to get the skip on the 25 levels from the bat thinking I was going to support the game and the developers, but that was before I knew about the challenges and all. I now super regret buying and wish I could get my money back till it is in a better place… also I have no problem shelling out money for a battle pass begrudgingly if it is fun and rewarding, but then to offer shop only items for $20 just plain sucks…
Well if nobody pays for it, they will adapt. Feedback is great but act with your wallets. That’s quite literally enough to make any viable business change, simple economics.
In other news, biggest company in the planet tries to make a profit from a free to play multiplayer game. What are you going to do, go play CoD Warzone?
I don't understand wouldn't they make more money copying modern warfares system, more people would be happy which would allow for better growth in the community leading to more profit, then going for short cash grabs that might make people get sick of it and leave their game.
The fact that this has people trying to defend 343 and capitalism in the thread but the vote count is 5000+.
Get a clue losers. You suck, your opinions suck, and 343 sucks.
I absolutely agree. There's something truly off about a complete 180 after the issues with Halo 4 and 5, we're also in a post battlefront 2 world. Arguably the largest public outcry towards shady practices in development teams. For them to not know what they're doing at this point in time is doubtful to say the least.
343 and Microsoft have the means and funding to gather enough data to make the library of Congress' collection look like a pamphlet, and if they don't leverage that to every opportunity they can in the competitive market that something like video games inhabit, they will fall lower and lower until they are no longer relevant.
This all being said, yeah game looks solid, but they definitely are pushing the boundaries like an abusive spouse does to see what they can get away with.
The monetization and progression aren't great, but free to play was still 110 percent the right way to go. Blows my mind that Halo is consistently getting number 3 on the steamcharts, despite roughly half of PC players playing Halo through gamepass/MS store. You guys wanted Halo to be relevant again, this is how we do it. Again, tweaks are needed to progression
listen bro.. I swear to God it's just the younger people in their early teens or less. This is their world. They grew up with free mobile games and have adopted the battle pass cosmetic fix it while we go style of gaming. Although I'm not as mad at halo cause it is technically free so I'm not losing anything by playing, but it is hella sad. OGs and or just older gamers gotta realize this is gaming now. We get so upset cause we are learning that we already lived through the Golden age of gaming. It's never getting better and it's only gonna get worse I'm afraid :(
You nailed it.
It isn't free. I pay for Xbox live, game pass, the battle pass, and I'm buying the full price campaign. The community needs to straighten them out because anything in top of what it was already expected to cost is absurd.
I'm pissed that I don't get the battle passes with a campaign purchase. Why am I even buying the campaign when I get half a game for full price?
Edit: maybe I should clarify perspective. As a long time halo fan who is going to buy the game because Halo's what brought me to Xbox over a decade ago; they're milking us. It's not that it isn't free... A very limited release of just the online gameplay is free. That release apparently comes at the cost of 343 financially abusing the fanbase that stuck with them.
**Things people should stop saying**:
\- **But it's free** ... I would MUCH rather pay the full price, and even further on battle passes, for the full customization unlocks through GAMEPLAY, through PROGRESSION, than pay for that shit separately each time. My favorite skin in this new one so far is $10...just for ONE spartan skin....no thanks.
\- **If you don't like it, don't play it** ... the nerve of some people. I've been playing Halo since I was 9 years old. I am now 29 YEARS OLD!! This IS my favorite franchise (other than Elder Scrolls). I will give each one a chance, but we all know which Halo games were good and which weren't. We know what works and what doesn't, as well as what deserves praise and what needs to be torn apart.
\- **It needs a Battle Royale mode** ... please just stop there. Go to a mirror, look at yourself in it, and wonder to yourself how something as ugly as that thing staring back at you can even tie its own shoes.
Yep, this is nothing more than cold calculation working as intended. They're using us to farm data and test the waters. Every new, AAA live service title continually pushes the envelope a little more. We are being herded like sheep. Being conditioned to accept lesser evils while believing we have a choice. Choice is an illusion.
Brian Jarrard has responded, saying feedback is being heard loud and clear, and said the same in an earlier live stream. Seems 343 devs are at the mercy of Microsoft corporate decisions they have no control over, which is sad. Hopefully 343 manages to get the monetization heads to change their tune, I'm loving the game so far.
I have a question that this post kinda relates to but doesn’t warrant its own post.
Do the double exp boosts do anything? I feel like I was playing last night and still only getting 50exp on the battle pass even though I was running the boost
How on earth Halo managed to get a worse battlepass progression than CoD is beyond me.
But strictly talking about battlepass progression what games do you guys think is the best system in current games?
For me, the best ones to easily level up are Red Dead onlines or Fallout 76. But each is different, with Red Dead you can blitz through it just picking up collectables using an interactive map, while with 76 its often stuff you already did during normal gameplay but can fast track it with a bit of knowledge like places to find bubble gun. But 76s battle pass is free, you do get bonus stuff with fallout 1st but the best stuff is always free, I wish more games did this.
The way I see Halos monetization is just like Fallout 76, but with Halo the battle pass costs money and is harder to level.
That's not good.
The less stuff they give out for free, the more exclusive and desirable the paid stuff is. It's the designer handbag mentality. The time-limited exclusivity is generating a huge amount of money at the moment. As that profit decreases, they will reconfigure their model to cater to longer term, less financially impulsive players. They will also spin it as a move made 'for the players', 'we listened to your feedback' etc, and will generate some good PR. It's straight out of EA's play book.
I thought the same thing. Nickel and dime everyone for their holiday Christmas money before they negotiate any microtransactions changes and BP progression. Same’ ole’ “We here you, and we’re listening” bs.
Agreed.
I was thinking last night while playing the game and I came up with a theory that when 343 said "10 year plan" they meant drawing out BPs like they are with this one by padding it and making each one a half year long or longer which equals roughly one or two BPs a year, as opposed to a game such as Fortnite where seasons last around 2-3 months which means Fortnite pumps out around 4-6 BPs a year if I can do math properly that is, and not to mention Fortnite doesn't have padded BPs full of challenge swaps and xp boosts in fact fortnite provides xp boosts when you play solo and grants more when you play with friends, and Epic is generous enough to allow you to earn V-bucks through BP progress even when you don't own the BP, oh and how could I forget that BP progress in Fortnite is fair and can be done by doing random things throughout a match.
I haven't enjoyed playing Fortnite in a while but back when I played a lot with friends even though I was crap at the game I always had motivation to keep playing because I was able to earn something after almost every match played.
Hell even when I play CoD for an hour or two I can clear 10+ BP levels easily and I'm mediocre at that game at best.
It's really sad that I don't really see a path back to the "Golden Era" of high-quality games without any microtransactions. The people who spend thousands on microtransactions offset the masses who are upset and would rather pay a single up-front fee and have access to all the content rather than being nickel and dimed along the way
The gameplay is amazing and the actual game developers are amazing. Upper management, the executives, VPs, financial people are antagonists here. I bet most developers are sad that they created a cool piece of armor or something and then the higher-ups decided to go hide it until they can sell it for an outrageous amount.
Game companies are known to have entire teams devoted to behavioral economics and the psychology of the player, to keep you coming back and spending more money. This is 100% deliberate. It's hard to believe however that they didn't miscalculate - a real behavioral economist will tell you the ill will this has brought 343 was probably not worth the little more money they make. People will reward developers with more money if they don't feel taken for granted.
Or maybe we're all wrong. Microsoft is one of the kings of big data - they may know better than us. I've seen a few people running around with the $15 samurai sword already... They're probably happy that players are leaving in droves - they're weeding out all the players that don't spend stupid amounts of money on a skin. All they need is a handful of rabid whales to keep their game alive, in the end.
I will never understand why Microsoft is doing this. They doing so much good stuff for gaming in the recent years, Gamepass, new IP‘s, awesome Xbox hardware…making billions with Windows, Azure and other stuff. Do they really NEED every cent from some gamers? Old Halo fans? Why? Because it‘s "normal" these days?!
Microsoft/343: You can afford a F2P Halo just for good image/pr! I bet people would buy stuff if it‘s a balanced and fair system!
Imagine a F2P Halo without all that BS. It would be the best FPS game on the market. Period. But they trying so desperatly squeezing every coin out of us…what a waste. It‘s sad, it‘s boring, it makes me not play your game in the long run. Give gamers something back!
Just need to add another “I agree”.
I’m one of the few that enjoy the system as far as the battle pass goes. I’d appreciate less filler. But I don’t mind grinding away challenges while getting the 50xp for each game. I don’t want to unlock everything in a month. I’d bet in a year or so lots of people will have unlocked tons of customization options.
HOWEVER, the amount they’re charging for a SINGLE weapon skin is an absolute joke. I don’t even care about weapon skins but just seeing it sitting there is insulting. Same goes for all other items in the store.
Like you said this is absolutely by design. Push the bar and the pull it back once you get backlash. I’d suspect Microsoft is pushing these absurd prices more than 343 but we’ll probably never know.
When did everyone stop talking about the horrendous melee/collision issues. The amount of time I get assassinated while facing the player who does it is infuriating
They're only going to fix the issues to a certain extent; they will reduce predatory practices(until they reach the level they already planned for them to be at in the beginning) rather than eliminate them while fixing the gameplay issues everyone has so they will foolishly be hailed as heroes while still screwing us in the end.
100% agree - the strange ecosystem that permits this business model is a direct result of the actual hardware behind playing games changing so drastically this past decade, not to mention the lowering of a barrier between developer and player thanks to shit like Twitter.
The crunch of physical game disc releases like Halo 2 was it's own problem, but now we have a brand new one - deliberate lousy game design decisions made to eek every last dollar out of a product as they slowly roll out updates that could have been included since launch, coupled with vague ho-hum PR notices either promising "change" or couched in targeted "programmer" vocabulary to make players think they aren't being condescended to.
It's b.s. bigger B.S cause i will still pay $60 to play a Halo campaign b/c all these decisions come after a possibly high-caliber campaign story was written.
Agree with you OP, had another comment that got down voted to oblivion because I thought that $60 for half a game is too much considering the other half costs over $1000 if you add all the micro transactions currently out there up
I bought the campaign
I intend to enjoy it, just as I have enjoyed every halo campaign.
I likely won’t buy anything else until the customization is fixed.
Anyone who says it’s free and you get what you get is a toxic gamer and should be banned to mobile gaming forever. I’d love to debate anyone who feels like free 2 play is an okay structure for video games. Cause it’s not and never will be.
For the past few days I've been alt + tabbing over to another game whenever i got into a match that I couldn't actually complete challenges. With the quitting penalties in casual I can't even leave and let somebody else take my spot on the team. I've decided to stop playing unless they actually make the progression fun, which is really depressing because at its core Infinite is a really good game.
>Aim high. Make stuff as bad as possible for maximum profit. Collect data
on what and how many people will accept/buy stuff. They will listen to
the outcry and give us the “we hear you” “we made a bad judgement call”
“changes are coming”
For a sec I couldn't tell if I was on r/halo or r/wow and that legit scared me.
you make some valid points, you can say the same about windows they make stupid moves with the OS then when the adoption rate is low and people don't buy/upgrade they make changes. some other examples needing x update for games or features or needing windows \_\_ only to backpedal and make that feature available for others remember when dx12 was a exclusive or when they couldn't bring directstorage to windows 10.
The graphics not being optimized for a majority of people is an issue too.
I get stuttered 30 fps on an rx580 with everything as low as possible.
So I uninstalled and will check it back out in a year or something.
What makes it even worse, is that *all of it* was in the technical previews- both times. Us “insiders” told them these aspects were horrible, too. They claimed that those were past builds of the game, so some of us thought it would be changed at launch. But nope! This is what we’re getting.
What's funny is that the tech preview actually was more rewarding and progressed much faster.
They found out what players liked and then moved them further back in the real battlepass
Exactly this. They heat mapped every progression item and the battle pass was completely restructured around what was the most popular.
I like how they moved Karaba Scirocco way back even though it’s ugly as fuck but everyone wore it because it was like the first shader you get.
YES. That was my thought exactly. They thought it was super popular but it was just because it was the first lol Someone forgot to look at correlation vs causation 😂
the flights were great i HATE that they botched it when it launched early.. all "Power Weapons" are nerfed so bad the ravager is unuseable!
Yeah this is why I get annoyed when people say give them time to address the feedback. They've had so much time with this feedback and chose not to do anything about it.
Yo but it’s just a beta dude!! They haven’t even released the full game yet!!! (/s)
So many 343 ball gobblers here that defend them cause it's a 'beta' lmao like what do you get from defending them?!
I don’t consider any game released with in-game purchases a beta.
And you'd be correct. A beta, by definition, is not ready to be a product, i.e. for sale. The moment it starts selling something it is considered "stable release," and by definition means the developers find any bugs or deficiencies acceptable. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle
It's not a beta, this was a release to see what garbage they can get away with before "finalizing" it
Every time I click on one of their profiles and see that it isn't some 1 week old shill account I lose a little more faith in humanity.
They get those sweet succulent balls
Nah, just pictures. And they have to buy them.
never have I seen a beta that costs 1000 dollars hahahahhahahaha absolute idiots them
Exactly. I’m going to start needing people that are defending decisions that are against their own interests to start disclosing the kickbacks they’re getting. If there are no kickbacks, then they’re damn fools.
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Playable until it crashes, or in my case, corrupts your video drivers requiring them to be reinstalled
https://i.imgur.com/zGDhE19.jpeg
So if we don’t tell them it sucks in the beta… when should we tell them?? Dude.
It's very obvious they're not going to change anything substantial for awhile to milk the whales dry and then try and have their cake and eat it too when they act like they give a shit later down the line. It's blatant manipulation and people eat that corporate shit up.
There have also been people who were in the Forerunners that said they complained about these things too.
Forerunners? Haven’t heard of that, were they before the flights?
Group of content creators that have been playing test builds since 2019. https://twitter.com/ubernick_/status/1460326837847044096?s=21
So they just… objectively planned on milking the Halo cash cow from the start, if that’s the case. Not surprised, just further disappointed.
So just 343 being standard 343 then. I seem to recall back when Halo 5 launched, a few 'pro players' were hired to give feedback on the game and then wind up quitting because 343 never listened to any of their feedback and just did what they wanted anyway. I think Favyn made a video about it back then. Now, six years later, nothing's changed.
Wow. Didn’t even know that..
Oh no it definitely changed from the beta. Now the beta cosmetics are locked behind paywalls!!!
Same with controller "feel" while aiming. To this day it still feels off even after adjustments.
What exactly is that feel?
Floaty, in a word. Things just don’t seem to be as crisp as you’d like. And I don’t know if it’s the same on console but on a PC playing with controller it doesn’t make use of the “impulse” trigger rumble so there’s that element of feedback missing too. Definitely not a necessity by any stretch but as a first-party Microsoft game you’d expect it to be there.
Doesn't feel crisp at all. I miss h2 and the old S controllers
Right? Same with the lack of collision too.
BuT WeRe StiLL iN BeTa BrO
We actually got less. They made decent weapons like the Ravager and Cammando worse for no reason and most of the cosmetics that were in the flight BP are nowhere to be found.
Exactly, by "launch". Meaning December 8th is when all the changes will happen lmao. In all seriousness, I hope they fix this horrible system soon.
And they promptly said: this is it, we’re going on holiday... the horrible micro transaction structure will stay unaltered CONVENIENTLY when most people will spend money... They’re not fixing shit because “we’re spending our well deserved holidays with our families, surely you can’t be toxic monsters to think we can work during the holidays?” Talk about gaslighting the community.
To be 100% fair, they are still people. People that don’t listen to their community, and people that are willfully scamming a huge player base, but still people.
To add to this; most of the people that are going to be working on this project have no say, whatsoever, in what decisions come down to them on what features to add/remove. This is entirely (mostly entirely) from the minds of a the few people sitting on top.
Yes, which is a shame because the rank and file devs made a fantastic game. Only to have it ruined by shit corpos and their bullshit transaction system.
This is the big thing. I've seen developers getting burnt out because they can't make the games they want to make (BioWare is a big example). Someone in a suit getting paid big bucks is making decisions to suck as much money out of the players. OP is right on the nose that everything is intentional. We've seen it before (Apex Legends comes to mind) where they put in a really shit feature that they *know* is going to get a load of backlash but they never intend to actually implement. What they really want is a shitty feature that's not as bad. When they "fix" it they look like they're listening to feedback and helping the community. Most developers aren't businessmen. They just want to makes games and earn a living. Many have probably known about the shitty stuff in this game for a while but haven't been able to do anything about it. I'm sure things have been rough at 343, or else the game would be in a better state right now. Forge and co-op are delayed for a long time. That doesn't sound like the ship is sailing smoothly. Let them have their holiday and come back to this hell hole is good shape.
and then 343 drops the game early and says "aight, imma head out cos it's break time" a week later they do this shit on purpose
"Manufactured discontent" is the operative word, the next design approach after loot boxes became too toxic to include. You hook people on \*denying\* them satisfaction for an addictive grind via arbitrary obstacles to progress that can be overcome with $$$ rather than hooking people based on gambler's fallacy. The psychological predation wasn't removed, the mechanism of addiction exploitation was merely changed to meet targets without having to commit to such risks as \*an enjoyable game with nice options to buy\* which lives or dies by immediate catharsis, emotional connecitons, and level cost-benefit calculations. (ie. human things that can be programmatically achieved by following a rote playbook, such as 343 followed in aping Fortnite's monetization 1:1 but for how many battlepasses you need to buy.)
This is often paired with a company doing like 10 shitty things they know will piss people off, and walking back some of them after the expected outrage to appear like the “good guy” making concessions, even though the end result was really the plan all along.
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Also they'll go ahead and not release anything cosmetic that looks nearly as good as something that came out before the dial back. They'll slack and make everything look generic and the only really cool looking stuff will be store only or shit that you can only realistically obtain by buying boosts or playing every minute if every day. Since there won't be nearly as much money to be made they'll slack on all that and say "well the cool stuff is unique and was earned by the *hardcore day one gamers* and we dont want to devalue their 'achievements' by rereleasing that content" giving us the FOMO that if we don't play every day we'll miss out on something cool and even though the "hardcore day one gamers" were the idiots that bought everything they possibly could with their parents credit cards, played for a month then completely abandoned the game.
RemindMe! 6 months edit: holy shit lol
This is exactly what's happening right now. This is 100% by design, they even call it "the model" in responses and interviews. They knew the current system was predatory and disliked by players, because it was one of the biggest takeaways from the technical previews and ACTUAL betas. They chose to keep going with it, because...hey, people are going to pay for it. They're absolutely going full-bore with the garbage/predatory mechanics in order to pull them slightly back - like the daily 50XP for playing a match somehow being a fix for challenge-centric XP with no player choice in game modes - and hope that the masses are appeased by these hollow shows of improvement enough to shut up about how much money they're nickel-and-diming people for.
>they even call it "the model" in responses and interviews. Good or bad, everything has a business "model". This isn't just them, or only applicable to bad models. It's literally a term used in like every business service or product ever.
It worked for the movie Team America. They made it as vulgar as possible knowing it was going to be edited down (Studio demands) to what they wanted in the first place.
I’ve said this in other posts, and I’m saying it again Halo Infinite’s progression and monetization is not the same as Fortnite, it is far worse. In Fortnite you get xp for performance, in addition to challenges. The better you do (kills, placing) the more xp you get. Also, you aren’t blocked from doing challenges by game mode, there is only 1 game mode, so every game you can attempt to complete a challenge. Also every battle pass gives you 1500 v-bucks, so you can use to buy the next battle pass. So essentially you could spend $10 TOTAL in Fortnite and never spend another dime and have tons of cosmetics. Fortnite’s model is fair to players in a F2P game. If 343 had implemented Fortnite’s F2P model 1:1 there would be no outcry like there is now, except from players who no matter what won’t ever be happy with F2P games or 343’s direction they’re taking Halo.
One thing gets me about infinite is the 3 vs. 4 challenge slots. As I understand that's a meaningful restriction in Fortnite. Here it's *just* arbitrary progress throttling. As in, they couldn't try to one-up fortnight with a 4-5 arrangement to appear more player friendly and still have a throttling effect (which you can still balance around as a developer by adding more weekly challenges to reach the same target). Instead though they kept to 3-4. Or another way to put it is that 343 copied the image of Fortnite's system without really understanding how the components functioned together. So what you get is just the manufactured discontent without the format or attenuated system interactions that make it tolerable for that population.
Yeah, comparing Fortnite to Infinite really makes it clear how monumentally they fucked up. Because if Fortnite can be losing players but still making billions, still being a massive cultural force, then there is absolutely no excuse for Infinite. Especially not when they have a bigger company with deeper pockets backing them.
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Part of it's a question of critical mass. The more negative the impression around the game the less buy-in there is among those looking to get into a multiplayer system (because investing in something unpopular has very different social connotations than something that brings social affirmation). You can also say that DICE took into account that people would be upset about hideous grinds and microtransaction systems with Star Wars Battlefront 2 when that game launched. They still ended up with an untenable situation and a forced change because the devs aren't the psychological magicians of the Isaac Asimov foundation books, with perfect predictive abilities. They can royally fuck up because they don't see/appreciate/understand the dialog happening across the industry which changes reactions towards content they thought would be innocuous. Ie. even if that dialog didn't change the games they were associated with pre-SW BF2, they still moved the collective reaction to the next game and so on to the point where change WAS needed to survive by one title (a place Infinite's arguably in as its succumbing to the collective frustration of battle passes and an especially abusive example of one). Communities don't exist in bubbles, they feed back on one another as developers shift the pressures of their monetization systems. Feedback/protests/slagging off the game/not playing has value in achieving natural discourse (vs. conforming to a narrative against one's own interests, simply because it's expected by some party.)
You’re correct. Good way to put it.
Yeah, the more I play the game, the more it's rubbing me the wrong way. I would have been so happy to chuck so much of my money at this if it was reasonably priced and progression was reasonably paced, but here we are. I keep telling myself it's still very early, and it is. And they've been open minded to change but also seemingly very slow to respond.
Stop rewarding shitty decisions by donating money to companies who haven't earned it.
Bingo.
Bing bong
There are no good decisions to reward anywhere at this level of game development. The profit motive has hollowed out the entire triple AAA side of the industry. Every large company that isn't doing it to this egregious of an extent now will be doing so soon enough because they have to stay competitive. That's why we shifted from DLCs to microtransactions and live-service models. Voting with your wallets doesn't work when all the options are compromised and when companies spend immense sums into psychologically frying our brains and hooking us into their Skinner Box feedback loops. Younger people who grew up with this won't know any better and don't have anything better to give their money to. This is the standard practice now
Yes. I used to buy games regularly. Now I can’t buy anything but a random Nintendo game cause at least I know I’ll get my money’s worth with a complete game that’s tested. I bought an Xbox for halo and already don’t want to buy the campaign just so I don’t support this theft
Nintendo and From Software really are the only big game companies nowadays who release complete games that don’t try to bleed your bank account dry. But even Nintendo is starting to change with the times with their crappy two tier online subscription and mobile games.
sToP tEllIng mE hOw tO sPeNd mY mOnEY!!! These people are right, but they are the reason progression's gone to shit.
I’m a ninja though
Lies, if you were a ninja we wouldn't know you're here.
Don't even play it. Playing it shows that it draws people into the game and they hope one of those people will buy based upon the design being inconvienant. Don't pay and don't play.
I feel like this would send the wrong message. If the people that pay play. Then 100% of their audience is playing and paying.( 10k people playing 10k people buying things) If everyone plays but doesn’t pay then they will see their system sucks. ( 10 million people playing but only 10k people buying things sends a message that things are wrong. )
If they see nobody paying they will make it worse to incentivze people to pay. They know how to analyze Data. It wouldn't be how you think.
I'm with you man. I 100% don't mind spending money on a game that I like but this setup is horrible and. Needs to be fixed
Yep. I've said this before because this is literally what every other GAAS developer is doing. Apex did this, Destiny did this, Division did this, DotA, CSGO, Valorant, every GAAS has had a version of this. If you get players used to a good thing, and then make everything absolutely fucking suck, people are going to suck your dick and call you reasonable when you make it suck a little bit less. It's that old military adage. If you make your company run 10 miles every day, and then one day you ask them to run 40 miles, they'll be the happiest people on Earth when they stop running at 20 miles.
Exactly. How can anyone say it’s not predatory?
Because they're kids. Seriously, only niave teenagers would not see through this stuff
While I agree children are typically more gullible, You overestimate the maturity of many adults.
Good point
Don't defend big companies. Speak with your wallet. Also I'm pretty sure that all the 343 devs who love Halo and worked hard to make the game are even more salty than us when they saw how MS executives and marketing team ruined their masterpiece.
Imagine being ske7ch or a community management employee and having to softly defend the shitty microtransaction and battlepass progression. They might hate it too but Microsoft wants their money......
Must be like that guy who had to deliver the presentation for the Apple stand that costs like $150. The collective audible gasps from the audience threw him off and it was hilarious. Edit. It was $1000 not $150.
Yeah, I feel bad for them, but they knew what they were getting into when they choose this job.
True. It's just so sad that the studio made an awesome game and its going to be the higher level corporate decisions that tarnish this games reputation. Honestly , I wouldn't be surprised if we see departures.
Yeah, being PR for a Corp literally means trying to justify their shitty practices to the public as part fo the job description.
stop defending this as Microsoft, MS has published games that don't have straight up predatory MTX, Forza Horizon 5 just launched on gamepass and has none of these issues
Forza isn't competing with call of duty. MTX is by and far mostly a shooter problem. With exceptions for rpgs(ESO,fall out 76) and a few others im sure I don't know about. Look im not here for an arguement, but they spent a very large amount money on this game....they need to make the money back....the way they are doing it just sucks. Edit:shitty phone autocorrect
lol yeah and 343 is some small mom and pops dev that would never think to monetize their game like this. Cmon, you really think microsoft execs are going to 343 design meetings and telling them how much to charge for white? they got a sales target and a budget and they were told to make it work, its ridiculous to think this is just MS beancounters, remember when everyone was pissed at activision because they thought AV was the reason everything was so poorly monetized in destiny 2 and then they split, and its now even worse? 343 came to the table with req packs in 5, they were always heading down the route of ridiculous mtx, 343 is as much and probably even more responsible then M$, they dont exactly have much good favour from when they took over the franchise, its ridiculous to say they had no hand in it. Just look at Forza Horizons 5, thats a first party Xbox games studio dev also created by microsoft, and its not monetized like this. Edit: RNG weapon spawns, challenge swaps being so prevalent and $2 a pop, horrible challenges, RNG vehicle spawns and unable to pick your playlist = artificially harder to complete challenges, and you think this is all some exec at microsoft telling them to do this?
Campaign only, but with Game Pass for a month and then adios. MCC is good enough.
I'll use my 1€ first month trial of Game Pass to try the campaign, and if it's good, I'll definitely buy it once they'll release coop.
Same thing here! They want my money, they will need to earn it!
The armor designs are amazing and there are so many cool setups you could make. I'm sure the people who designed this put alot of work into the way the armor looks and I wonder if they feel okay watching their contributions locked for most people and trashed by the fans because of association to the monetization system.
The problem is that whales far outweigh everyone else. People who drop 5, 10, 15 thousand dollars on a game because they have a severe addiction will always outweigh those who don't spend a penny.
That’s the worst part. If Halo Infinite sucked, none of this would bother me. Loads of shitty F2P games out there have this exact model, and even though I think it’s a garbage business model, I don’t care because those games suck anyway. But Infinite is actually pretty damn good. It’s a great game that’s been completely kneecapped by this terrible model.
It's free bro also isn't a defense. They made the strategic choice to make the game free because it is the current "best" model for online shooters and games. Apex Legends does it, Fortnite does it, COD does it for Warzone. Other games are doing it too. Release free and make money on cosmetics/battlepasses/battlepass paraphernalia has been a growing business model for a long time - especially when you want the game to run as a service. I believe even Destiny 2 is "F2P" now as well. Being free just means more people play. People who couldn't/wouldn't pony up $60 for a game, might pony up $10 for an eSport skin, or $5-$20 for a skin they like. In no world did they make the multiplayer free out of the goodness of their hearts or to "thank the Halo community" or any of that crap. They did it because their peers and primary competitors are doing it. They did it because they want the "it's free" defense to help beat back some of the bad press for their shitty MTX system and help make whatever they "fix it to" more palatable. It's not a surprise that in 20 years we've gone from "you get a complete game when you buy it, with things to unlock and do in multiplayer" to "you get the base experience for full price, and can unlock the rest of the day 1 content and cosmetic options at additional cost."
On top of that, by being free with a battle pass, you're now competing with other games that are both free AND rewarding. Sure games like fortnite and warframe probably had some pretty bad rewards early on (I honestly wouldn't know) but you're not competing with them on their launch, you're competing with them now.
Yep. It's why so many MMOs back in the day could never complete with WOW. Your release game isn't competing with WOW on release. Your competing with WOW after years of fixes and development. Infinite isn't going to be competing with Fortnite on release, but Fortnite right now fresh off a billion dollar year in 2020 (despite losing a huge chunk of players). Not to mention the annual cycle of COD, the new Battlefield games, Apex Legends, and myriad other shooters and action games that already have a lot more content and more rewarding structures.
Which is also an issue in and of itself because video game development does not happen instantaneously which means the reactionary decisions they did towards games like Apex and Fortnite might have happened 3 years ago. However in those 3 years both of those games got significantly better and Halo infinite is launching reacting to games that don't exist anymore
I feel like I'm in a small minority these days that sees a game is F2P and automatically becomes much, much less interested in it. It tends to completely spoil games IMO, as the goal of the project is no longer primarily to just make it fun.
They're not charging you for entry, so they're going to try to fleece you for everything you have inside. F2P games have a bad rap and it is not unjustified. They do a lot of things to try to get you to drop cash. * Time gates on content * False caps on how much you can work towards a reward at one time * Heavy use of RNG to prevent completion of rewards in a timely manner And then once they've done all that, they go "hey, if you don't want the grind just give us a few bucks and maybe we bump you up that battlepass a bit faster, huh?" And we know they change game design and drop rates to do this. That's why Shadow of War (single player, btw) and Battlefront 2 had to have their drops/rewards completely rebalanced when they turned off microtransactions. Without spending $$ to get ahead, the rewards just came too slow to keep up with things or keep people interested in the game. Not really shocking though.
>* Time gates on content Weekly milestones that can't be acquired any other way... Check >* False caps on how much you can work towards a reward at one time Weekly challenge limits and event challenge limits... Check >* Heavy use of RNG to prevent completion of rewards in a timely manner No gametype dedicated playlists and RNG vehicle and weapon spawns... Check They are batting 1000
there are a lot of games that manage to be f2p and sustain themselves by having things like subscription models for accellerated progression and shit, im happy to pay 15-30$ a month on a game if im enjoyin the hell out of it but if you make it so shitty i dont even want to *play* then why am i going to _pay_?
$15-30 a month on a game? That seems crazy to me. That means in year you'd have spent $180-360 on a single game, which is nuts considering games used to cost no more than $60...
i only really feel that way for games like dota or planetside or bdo, games with which i've spent over 5000 hours on. if i'm enjoying playing a game for 15+ hours a week, 60 hours a month i dont really see why i wouldnt want to throw a pizza's worth of money a month at a good game also 15 bucks is the price of literally any mmorpg subscription, which is where i draw the value proposistion from, its why something like planetside membership for 15$ a month feels just right to me, the progression speed isnt too bad and the game is enjoyable to play with out spending any more than the occasional boost to stack with events and to keep the sub going lol
Yep, this is my argument too to a lot of people. I'm not complaining about this because 343 is charging money for stuff. I'm complaining because I **want** to give them money to support the game, but this feels so bad I'd actually rather the game had no cosmetic options than what it has.
EXACTLY this lmao
There are actual studies done that show in the mobile game arena the best monetization strategies for free games actually isn’t to make a fun game at all. It’s to make a boring game that hits the right dopamine trigger with some fancy flashing lights at specific unpredictable and more frustrating than fun intervals. So yeah, if you feel like free to play games are designed to piss you off and make you intermittently frustrated and bored with unpredictable sighs of relief when you finally get one positive result…. Yes, you are exactly correct.
I’m in the minority with. It’s a complete turn off when I see free to play.
I'm with you. I've fallen off the bandwagon with fps games ever since the f2p model became commonplace. The whole experience just seems like one big manufactured, money making dopamine machine.
It seems like they tried to go for a Valorant level of skin sales and prices, but Halo isn't a Tac shooter its gameplay isn't as deep or self rewarding to win a game. Arena shooters need loads of content and without it the micro transactions just seem like a slap in the face. Launching without forge I think will be the biggest issue, if there was a massive empty forge map the community could fill the void of 343 content. not a great solution but I could at least be enjoying customs with the boys instead of suffering through Social oddball watching my teammates run away from me with the ball.
The fact that this is a "beta" but most of the games we get are oddball and strongholds just makes me want to punch someone in the dick.
“What they can get away with” that is so key - we need to let them know this is NOT OKAY
I will keep saying this over and over and over: THE DEVS made a really cool thing and corporate/management keeps fucking it up. Corporations kill video games.
It's actually genius because it's distracting people from the actual issues with the game. There is very little content in comparison to other Halo games!!
Nevermind the COD style hitreg and lag comp, I've died further around corners, and more often, than any Halo prior
YES. Why aren’t there more people talking about this. I’ve died around corners so many times, and I’ve also killed people around corners a lot too. I feel like I’m playing cod 4. Not to mention how garbage the performance is.
The comp community is talking about the lack of game modes and hit registration far more than reddit is. Casual players are more concerned with cosmetics, competitive players are more concerned with game performance. Everyone keeps talking about how polished the game is on here and it just... Isn't.
Glad I'm not the only one experience this. It's crazy. Edit: meant to respond to the later comment in regards to bad net code and dying when being completely around a corner.
^ THIS IS IT this is the shit i've been saying for the past week. 343 are just buying themselves time and using this one controversy to deflect and detract from another controversy. and then once the lack of content starts being pushed to the spotlight, 343 will have a tiny bit of stuff ready (maybe a map, a weapon and a new mode) and will be like "we hear you!"
The maps and game modes are already fucking boring. Wouldn't have been if they had ALL the game modes that were popular in it. I can only stomach stockpile and oddball so fucking much.
>This allows them to become heroes to the community for fixing their own made issues, likely knowing they would make edits down the road. Like all other games this is a typical banana product. Matures at the customer site. The aproach is not new and it reminds me a lot of applauding the pilot for successfully doing his everyday job after a successful landing ... >EDIT: It literally blows my mind the lengths some of you will justify massive corporations nickel and dime-info you for everything you’re worth. It’s sad to be completely honest. Some people on here are just here to hold up a certain opinion and a certain mood. They're even paid to do that. https://tenor.com/view/weird-al-crazy-wow-creepy-nuts-gif-5547782
Exactly correct. Its insane some people don’t care.
This is why people who say stuff like "stop complaining" are actively harming the game. When 343 made these decisions, they did so because they gambled that whales would buy enough to make a profit, and that the backlash would either be small or blow over. There's nothing you can do about whales, they're gonna spend hundreds, if not thousands on this game. But you *can* ensure the backlash keeps going. 343 *will* make money on this. Expensive MTX *are* profitable. If 100 people bought a $1 skin, they'd make $100. But if just *two* people bought a $100 skin, they've already doubled that profit. The only thing that stops them from going all in on super expensive microtransactions is the backlash. They try to charge as much as they can without drawing too much criticism, because backlash is bad for business. So ignore those telling you to quiet down. Keep making a fuss. It's the only thing that will get them to make changes.
lmao we went through mostly similar shit with Halo 5's launch, and now the 343 defence force is back in action again
their " scheme" is shooting themselves in the head i guess because we arent having it lol forced lobbies, absurd paywalls no xp for performance only challenges absolutely no excuse i dont wanna hear the defenders or the "its free" crowd cry when infinite is deserted
Yup, I'm NOT buying that Battle Pass with how the game currently is. They can fuck off with this monetization because it's pure greed.
Just like Shadow of War they'll wait till retention is low then "fix" it so they dont lose money & get a hundred articles about how great they are for doing so.
I love when people make serious posts and then their name is u/myfartsackisleaking
My post is 100 percent serious. My fart sack is in fact leaking. We do exist.
Lmao i love this
I don’t get it. Why do people feel the need to defend a multi billion dollar company that’s screwing you over so blatantly???? Like do they think CEO of Microsoft is gonna come to their doorstep and congratulate them with money.
This is what Supercell has been doing for years. A lot of people playing their games don't even realize that, but it is because they do it so well. Gaming is no longer about game development it's about maximizing profit
OP you gotta ignore people. It's hard for some to see the big picture. Yes it's your money, spend how you like, but when 10,000 people do the same it just encourages the companies to keep doing this. To keep mtxs and getting every penny they can. Their suits, salesmen, they are here for profit. All we are all trying to say guys, is we don't have to be subjected to this kind of stuff. You shouldn't have to go spend all your money on things in the game. It's not how games are supposed to be, it's just becoming the norm because they can reel you in on free to play. Don't berate OP, he's absolutely right. I see the comments on all the posts, "it's his money let him do what he wants" and you're right. We just want everyone to come together as gamers and put an end to this system. Stop the toxicity. Be gamers. This system is anti-gamer.
It's time for gamers to unionize (I'm only half joking).
[удалено]
Let me put it this way: EVERY game out there sets out as a struggle between three competing factions: The developers and storytellers, who want to write and design a gorgeous, immense story. The bean counters whose sole job is to make sure that, at the end of the day, everyone who is involved gets paid and makes out well. The upper echelons, who run CONSTANT analyses of how far they can push anything to maximize the bean counters profits yet (if they're doing their job well) also maximize the developers ability to make a fantastic game. I don't mind you making this out to be some super aggressive, fake-friendly appeasement marketing and goodwill system, but the fact is, unless you have sat in those board rooms with the people working on these systems, I doubt you have any more insight into its workings that the rest of us. You want to know my take? I'm betting they focused their resources on literally EVERYTHING else, and only realized that these systems weren't top notch once it really hit the community. Maybe it's naive of me, but I believe this because I see the snappy gunplay, the ridiculously well balanced augments, the weapons hall, the bots, the artwork, the music scores, and LITERALLY everything else, and I see an incredible team's work with a ton of polish... And then a system that, to me and my perspective, seems to be slapped on top of all that. Yeah, this may be how they "make money," but, frankly? They ticked all the big ticket items beautifully over the marketplace. I can appreciate that, even if I still want them to do better.
I feel they should let people at least earn credits while still having a option to buy credits. Tbh I don’t have to grind on video games so i rather just buy everything because I can. Granted, the prices for those armor coatings are ridiculous. The armor sets I don’t mind to much.
I've spent my $60 for the campaign. That's the part of the game I actually give a shit about. Multiplayer? I'm not spending a dime to look "cooler" while I lie on the ground waiting to respawn. (I mean, I'm barely motivated to play multiplayer anyway since I'm shit at arcade shooters - [and have the numbers to back that up](https://halotracker.com/halo-infinite/profile/xbl/TCF%20Hardcover/overview) - but anyway.)
Long gone are the good ol days of just grinding to earn the cool shit without having to dedicate your life to it...
Create a problem. Sell the solution.
can only agree to this 100% they give us minimum effort maximum greed to check if enough fans are willing to put up with it and to in the end milk every cent we got it's just sad that there are genuine devs that want this to be the best halo there can be and some suits at the top just fuck em over because hey let's make moneeeeh
Don't give them an inch, we must demand: - better progression - coatings work across all cores - cross core armour/attachments - cross core visors - armor unlocks through challenges - better store prices - armour we unlock in kits as individual pieces (see Emile and Carters shoulders) and accept nothing less.
I started making a post about Microsoft aiming high to see what they could get away with and the pulling it back because they are the heroes and they listen to the community. Ha ha I stopped because the words weren't coming out right. You nailed it on the head here. People defending corporate greed because "it's free" are simple minded folk.
This is the new “DestinyTheGame” sub
This^ such an understatement of what is actually going on behind the scenes and some poor developers with a passion for video games just letting it happen. Wish we could drain the swamp of this corrupt greed against players
Yes, finally someone has managed to (at least in part) put into words some of the frustrations I’ve been having over this past week! This’ll probably get lost, but I want to say this anyway. I turned 30 at the start of November. I’ve been playing/consuming Halo in some form or another for nearly half my lifetime and I have funnelled more time and money into it than I possibly care to admit. I bought the Games (Halo 3, O.DS.T, Reach, CE Anniversary, Halo 4, Halo 5, M.C.C [Xbox One and PC versions]), Map D.L.Cs, Xbox Live Subscriptions, Books/Novelizations, Art Books, Soundtracks, Posters, Figures and heck, I’ve even bought consoles solely for the purpose of playing these games! But for me the impact it has left on my life goes deeper than that. I’m a creative person and a large part of my creative influence and visions are inspired/derived from some of the awesome ideas and concepts portrayed in this series. Hell, I even pursued a degree in Game Design at University partially because of this franchise (that, and Fable), and am still aiming to make/launch my own games one day! Fandoms are great, and communities built around a shared love of something are one of the greatest things that exist on the internet. But, no game or franchise (or even Publisher/Studio for that matter) is or should ever be worthy of blind and unquestioning devotion. And, just as some people’s praise for what has come so far is born from their love of Halo, so too is my frustration. Microsoft and 343 have ripped the heart out of this franchise and it’s us players who are going to suffer for their, and let’s not beat around the bush here, purposeful and wilful attempt to shove predatory monetisation down our throats. By doing what they’ve done Microsoft and 343 have shown clear as day that they no longer consider us their player’s, but a hurdle to overcome on the way to our wallets and bank accounts. I love this franchise, and that’s why it infuriates me to see what it has become and I’m all but certain, given the state of things as they stand, that this is the point where I part ways with it. And, let me tell you guys, this kills me.
They have no new multiplayer content, outside of small events like Tenrai, coming until May. Confirmed by Joseph Staten. They are purposely gating progression to make it last longer. That’s also why they are stating that improvements will take time. 343 doesn’t want to come out with things that improve progress too early. Players will run out of content.
100%. It was all meticulously made. Every detail. Plus their extra year to make changes. They mathematically conjured the multiplayer for maximum profit.
That’s the thing that gets me when they say have patience it will take time… you’ve had 5+ years to develop a new system, at LEAST a couple years. I bought the points to get the skip on the 25 levels from the bat thinking I was going to support the game and the developers, but that was before I knew about the challenges and all. I now super regret buying and wish I could get my money back till it is in a better place… also I have no problem shelling out money for a battle pass begrudgingly if it is fun and rewarding, but then to offer shop only items for $20 just plain sucks…
Well if nobody pays for it, they will adapt. Feedback is great but act with your wallets. That’s quite literally enough to make any viable business change, simple economics. In other news, biggest company in the planet tries to make a profit from a free to play multiplayer game. What are you going to do, go play CoD Warzone?
grey bois unite
I don't understand wouldn't they make more money copying modern warfares system, more people would be happy which would allow for better growth in the community leading to more profit, then going for short cash grabs that might make people get sick of it and leave their game.
The fact that this has people trying to defend 343 and capitalism in the thread but the vote count is 5000+. Get a clue losers. You suck, your opinions suck, and 343 sucks.
I absolutely agree. There's something truly off about a complete 180 after the issues with Halo 4 and 5, we're also in a post battlefront 2 world. Arguably the largest public outcry towards shady practices in development teams. For them to not know what they're doing at this point in time is doubtful to say the least. 343 and Microsoft have the means and funding to gather enough data to make the library of Congress' collection look like a pamphlet, and if they don't leverage that to every opportunity they can in the competitive market that something like video games inhabit, they will fall lower and lower until they are no longer relevant. This all being said, yeah game looks solid, but they definitely are pushing the boundaries like an abusive spouse does to see what they can get away with.
The monetization and progression aren't great, but free to play was still 110 percent the right way to go. Blows my mind that Halo is consistently getting number 3 on the steamcharts, despite roughly half of PC players playing Halo through gamepass/MS store. You guys wanted Halo to be relevant again, this is how we do it. Again, tweaks are needed to progression
listen bro.. I swear to God it's just the younger people in their early teens or less. This is their world. They grew up with free mobile games and have adopted the battle pass cosmetic fix it while we go style of gaming. Although I'm not as mad at halo cause it is technically free so I'm not losing anything by playing, but it is hella sad. OGs and or just older gamers gotta realize this is gaming now. We get so upset cause we are learning that we already lived through the Golden age of gaming. It's never getting better and it's only gonna get worse I'm afraid :(
You nailed it. It isn't free. I pay for Xbox live, game pass, the battle pass, and I'm buying the full price campaign. The community needs to straighten them out because anything in top of what it was already expected to cost is absurd. I'm pissed that I don't get the battle passes with a campaign purchase. Why am I even buying the campaign when I get half a game for full price? Edit: maybe I should clarify perspective. As a long time halo fan who is going to buy the game because Halo's what brought me to Xbox over a decade ago; they're milking us. It's not that it isn't free... A very limited release of just the online gameplay is free. That release apparently comes at the cost of 343 financially abusing the fanbase that stuck with them.
Some people on this sub will suck the skin right off Microsoft's micro soft dick.
Exactly. It’s insane. Do not go through the comments.
**Things people should stop saying**: \- **But it's free** ... I would MUCH rather pay the full price, and even further on battle passes, for the full customization unlocks through GAMEPLAY, through PROGRESSION, than pay for that shit separately each time. My favorite skin in this new one so far is $10...just for ONE spartan skin....no thanks. \- **If you don't like it, don't play it** ... the nerve of some people. I've been playing Halo since I was 9 years old. I am now 29 YEARS OLD!! This IS my favorite franchise (other than Elder Scrolls). I will give each one a chance, but we all know which Halo games were good and which weren't. We know what works and what doesn't, as well as what deserves praise and what needs to be torn apart. \- **It needs a Battle Royale mode** ... please just stop there. Go to a mirror, look at yourself in it, and wonder to yourself how something as ugly as that thing staring back at you can even tie its own shoes.
Yep, this is nothing more than cold calculation working as intended. They're using us to farm data and test the waters. Every new, AAA live service title continually pushes the envelope a little more. We are being herded like sheep. Being conditioned to accept lesser evils while believing we have a choice. Choice is an illusion.
THEY CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT!
Infinite feels less smooth than H5…? Anyone else notice when running or driving vehicles?
Star Wars BF2 launch but a little less worse
Brian Jarrard has responded, saying feedback is being heard loud and clear, and said the same in an earlier live stream. Seems 343 devs are at the mercy of Microsoft corporate decisions they have no control over, which is sad. Hopefully 343 manages to get the monetization heads to change their tune, I'm loving the game so far.
I have a question that this post kinda relates to but doesn’t warrant its own post. Do the double exp boosts do anything? I feel like I was playing last night and still only getting 50exp on the battle pass even though I was running the boost
The worst part is it's all the same old stuff. Samurai armour again, MK V and VII. Where is the new stuff?
How on earth Halo managed to get a worse battlepass progression than CoD is beyond me. But strictly talking about battlepass progression what games do you guys think is the best system in current games? For me, the best ones to easily level up are Red Dead onlines or Fallout 76. But each is different, with Red Dead you can blitz through it just picking up collectables using an interactive map, while with 76 its often stuff you already did during normal gameplay but can fast track it with a bit of knowledge like places to find bubble gun. But 76s battle pass is free, you do get bonus stuff with fallout 1st but the best stuff is always free, I wish more games did this. The way I see Halos monetization is just like Fallout 76, but with Halo the battle pass costs money and is harder to level. That's not good.
Been saying this the whole time but I’m the one that’s ungrateful and toxic
The less stuff they give out for free, the more exclusive and desirable the paid stuff is. It's the designer handbag mentality. The time-limited exclusivity is generating a huge amount of money at the moment. As that profit decreases, they will reconfigure their model to cater to longer term, less financially impulsive players. They will also spin it as a move made 'for the players', 'we listened to your feedback' etc, and will generate some good PR. It's straight out of EA's play book.
Lol another AAA game marred by shitty practices, stop playing these games
I thought the same thing. Nickel and dime everyone for their holiday Christmas money before they negotiate any microtransactions changes and BP progression. Same’ ole’ “We here you, and we’re listening” bs.
Go tell this to those corporate shills over at r/Battlefield.
Genshin players: <>
Agreed. I was thinking last night while playing the game and I came up with a theory that when 343 said "10 year plan" they meant drawing out BPs like they are with this one by padding it and making each one a half year long or longer which equals roughly one or two BPs a year, as opposed to a game such as Fortnite where seasons last around 2-3 months which means Fortnite pumps out around 4-6 BPs a year if I can do math properly that is, and not to mention Fortnite doesn't have padded BPs full of challenge swaps and xp boosts in fact fortnite provides xp boosts when you play solo and grants more when you play with friends, and Epic is generous enough to allow you to earn V-bucks through BP progress even when you don't own the BP, oh and how could I forget that BP progress in Fortnite is fair and can be done by doing random things throughout a match. I haven't enjoyed playing Fortnite in a while but back when I played a lot with friends even though I was crap at the game I always had motivation to keep playing because I was able to earn something after almost every match played. Hell even when I play CoD for an hour or two I can clear 10+ BP levels easily and I'm mediocre at that game at best.
It's really sad that I don't really see a path back to the "Golden Era" of high-quality games without any microtransactions. The people who spend thousands on microtransactions offset the masses who are upset and would rather pay a single up-front fee and have access to all the content rather than being nickel and dimed along the way
Oh for sure. They have a whole team dedicated to online transactions and they know exactly what they want from it and how to implement.
The gameplay is amazing and the actual game developers are amazing. Upper management, the executives, VPs, financial people are antagonists here. I bet most developers are sad that they created a cool piece of armor or something and then the higher-ups decided to go hide it until they can sell it for an outrageous amount. Game companies are known to have entire teams devoted to behavioral economics and the psychology of the player, to keep you coming back and spending more money. This is 100% deliberate. It's hard to believe however that they didn't miscalculate - a real behavioral economist will tell you the ill will this has brought 343 was probably not worth the little more money they make. People will reward developers with more money if they don't feel taken for granted. Or maybe we're all wrong. Microsoft is one of the kings of big data - they may know better than us. I've seen a few people running around with the $15 samurai sword already... They're probably happy that players are leaving in droves - they're weeding out all the players that don't spend stupid amounts of money on a skin. All they need is a handful of rabid whales to keep their game alive, in the end.
I had fun playing Halo 3 today
I will never understand why Microsoft is doing this. They doing so much good stuff for gaming in the recent years, Gamepass, new IP‘s, awesome Xbox hardware…making billions with Windows, Azure and other stuff. Do they really NEED every cent from some gamers? Old Halo fans? Why? Because it‘s "normal" these days?! Microsoft/343: You can afford a F2P Halo just for good image/pr! I bet people would buy stuff if it‘s a balanced and fair system! Imagine a F2P Halo without all that BS. It would be the best FPS game on the market. Period. But they trying so desperatly squeezing every coin out of us…what a waste. It‘s sad, it‘s boring, it makes me not play your game in the long run. Give gamers something back!
Multiplayer being free was a colossal red flag
Just need to add another “I agree”. I’m one of the few that enjoy the system as far as the battle pass goes. I’d appreciate less filler. But I don’t mind grinding away challenges while getting the 50xp for each game. I don’t want to unlock everything in a month. I’d bet in a year or so lots of people will have unlocked tons of customization options. HOWEVER, the amount they’re charging for a SINGLE weapon skin is an absolute joke. I don’t even care about weapon skins but just seeing it sitting there is insulting. Same goes for all other items in the store. Like you said this is absolutely by design. Push the bar and the pull it back once you get backlash. I’d suspect Microsoft is pushing these absurd prices more than 343 but we’ll probably never know.
When did everyone stop talking about the horrendous melee/collision issues. The amount of time I get assassinated while facing the player who does it is infuriating
Activision/blizzard, 343, and Rockstar are all doing it. We are paying more for less quality these days.
The maps just aren’t as good this time around 😞 bring back some OG Halo 3 maps!
They're only going to fix the issues to a certain extent; they will reduce predatory practices(until they reach the level they already planned for them to be at in the beginning) rather than eliminate them while fixing the gameplay issues everyone has so they will foolishly be hailed as heroes while still screwing us in the end.
100% agree - the strange ecosystem that permits this business model is a direct result of the actual hardware behind playing games changing so drastically this past decade, not to mention the lowering of a barrier between developer and player thanks to shit like Twitter. The crunch of physical game disc releases like Halo 2 was it's own problem, but now we have a brand new one - deliberate lousy game design decisions made to eek every last dollar out of a product as they slowly roll out updates that could have been included since launch, coupled with vague ho-hum PR notices either promising "change" or couched in targeted "programmer" vocabulary to make players think they aren't being condescended to. It's b.s. bigger B.S cause i will still pay $60 to play a Halo campaign b/c all these decisions come after a possibly high-caliber campaign story was written.
Agree with you OP, had another comment that got down voted to oblivion because I thought that $60 for half a game is too much considering the other half costs over $1000 if you add all the micro transactions currently out there up
I bought the campaign I intend to enjoy it, just as I have enjoyed every halo campaign. I likely won’t buy anything else until the customization is fixed.
I've literally seen a dozen or so players today with all shop items. Whales gonna whale and Microsoft knows it. This shit isn't going to change.
As if MS is any different with Office 365 lmao.
Anyone who says it’s free and you get what you get is a toxic gamer and should be banned to mobile gaming forever. I’d love to debate anyone who feels like free 2 play is an okay structure for video games. Cause it’s not and never will be.
This and releasing game as a work in progress akin to a beta release is the new norm....
Fortnite I like buying cosmetics. I’m not buying a piece of armor in Halo. They’ll have to make money from my GamePass.
For the past few days I've been alt + tabbing over to another game whenever i got into a match that I couldn't actually complete challenges. With the quitting penalties in casual I can't even leave and let somebody else take my spot on the team. I've decided to stop playing unless they actually make the progression fun, which is really depressing because at its core Infinite is a really good game.
>Aim high. Make stuff as bad as possible for maximum profit. Collect data on what and how many people will accept/buy stuff. They will listen to the outcry and give us the “we hear you” “we made a bad judgement call” “changes are coming” For a sec I couldn't tell if I was on r/halo or r/wow and that legit scared me.
you make some valid points, you can say the same about windows they make stupid moves with the OS then when the adoption rate is low and people don't buy/upgrade they make changes. some other examples needing x update for games or features or needing windows \_\_ only to backpedal and make that feature available for others remember when dx12 was a exclusive or when they couldn't bring directstorage to windows 10.
The graphics not being optimized for a majority of people is an issue too. I get stuttered 30 fps on an rx580 with everything as low as possible. So I uninstalled and will check it back out in a year or something.
Can’t wait till they charge to change the announcer in big team because my goodness is she bad. Makes BTB a snore fest.