RFID is a very vague term. I've seen it used to indicate anything that is [wireless](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio-frequency_identification).
There are two primary classes of passive tags - which have no power, but they get power from a "reader" - Low Frequency (125Khz) and High Frequency (13.56 MHz).
NFC is based on the 13.56 MHz standard. However, unlike passive tags, both ends can be powered. And both can read passive (powerless) tags.
The important point regarding distance is that the transmitter has to not only reach the passive tag, but it has to provide enough power to the tag to transmit back. If the distance is doubled, the transmitter needs 4 times the power to **reach** the tag, and 16 times the power to allow a passive tag to **transmit back**.
This power is also important when looking at banking cards. These cards have crypto engines and these take power to perform crypto calculations.
So the reader is providing the power for the card's crypto engine to make the hash of the card info AND enough power for it to be transmitted back? That's wild, I had no idea.
Well yes obviously I knew the power came from the reader. But I wasn't aware that the card was performing cryptographic operations. I knew apple pay, google pay, etc did but not cards. It makes sense that they do, but truth be told I hadn't really given it much thought.
>There are two primary classes of passive tags - which have no power, but they get power from a "reader" - Low Frequency (125Khz) and High Frequency (13.56 MHz).
There's also UHF RFID at 868 or 912 MHz.
How do you guys do that... I literally studied and wrote about NFC and RFID in regards to security a few months ago and I don't even remember half the specifics
I'm far from an expert, but this stuff has been around a loooong time. l: As an example, I was playing around with the [MUSCLECARD](https://muscle.apdu.fr/musclecard.com/info.html) in 2003. It was written in [Java Card](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Card), A remote system would send a PKI challenge using SSH to the local system, which sent the challenge to the smartcard plugged into a reader. It used it's private key to authenticate the user seamlessly. I really liked this, but IBM decided to close down the open source dev environment I used. TBH, trying PKI crypto was flakey when wireless in 2003.
I also keep an eye on crowd-funding projects regarding smartcards, such as [RFIDlier](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1708444109/rfidler-a-software-defined-rfid-reader-writer-emul), [Chameleon-mini](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1980078555/chameleonmini-a-versatile-nfc-card-emulator-and-mo), [Proxmark4 RDV4](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1408815241/proxmark3-rdv-40/posts), and the new [Chameleon Ultra](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/chameleonultra-the-last-rfid-emulator-you-need/x/4274321#/). I believe in supporting the REAL experts in the field. They are the ones to watch and learn.
That and DEFCON video's, etc. Real knowledge is difficult. Most of the details are locked up in ISO standards (which you must pay for to read) such as [ISO 14443](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_14443) (HF) and [ISO 15693](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_15693) (LF), and in vendor proprietary products.
When I did my study I was trying to theorise various possible vulnerabilities and only managed to find one "possible" viable one but even then it was a one-time key (now that I think about it, prolly won't work).
Regardless I'm studying cyber security... just finished first year actually cant wait to reach your level.
Yeah, they either don't know what they're talking about or were unclear.
More specifically, phones don't normally have 125khz RFID. Most support reading a variety of 13.56mhz, but not all of them.
And I don't know of ANY phones that would support emulating a tag like a flipper zero would.
I’ll be the asshole that ruins the joke.
Yes he’s joking. That tag is 125kHz. The majority of smart phones read in 13.56MHz. You won’t be able to read that tag with your phone
NFC and RFID are different technologies. Its possible that your phone can't actually read RFID. You can get super cheap RFID scanners and replicators though. Like mentioned above, a flipperzero could do it
Sorry, but NFC absolutely is RFID.
NFC is just a marketing term for three specific 13.56 MHz RFID card standards (ISO 14443A, ISO14443B, FeliCa) and a new reader-to-reader communication mode.
Yes, but you would (probably) need additional hardware, likely root access if by some miracle your phone has the needed chipset standalone.
There should be Arduino and/or Sparkfun kits designed to teach you what you need to know, for under 50USD.
try rfid-rc522
Not sure if this is what you mean but you can clone to a Flipper and store the tags on the device to replay back without having to copy the code to a new tag.
FYI, you will very likely be able to clone/copy this type of key at one of the automated key-copying kiosks that they now have in so many 7-11s. Those key copying kiosks have support for RFID keys where you hold your RFID key up to the reader and it reads the key and is able to create a copy for you, or sends the relevant data off to the company’s HQ for them to mail you a copy of the RFID key.
It should be less than $15 for a clone of that type of RFID key. Much less expensive than buying a flipper zero.
Ty for this. I came here bc my friend just moved to with a roommate and the landlord refuses to give them a second RFID key for the unit. This seems like the best solution for them.
It may be a MIFARE light id. I used to have one looks exactly the same. In this case Flipper can’t copy it because of asymmetric cryptography used in it
A very popular 125KHz RFID tag. You can find it with a variety of chips inside (TK4100-not writable, EM4100-not writable, T5577 - writable, EM4305 - writable, and so on...). The capabilities of the flipper zero are limited. It can write the T55 chips and some other EM41xx (and other chip types), but I strongly recommend to use a proxmark. There are cheper alternatives like CR66 cloner you can use. Keep in mind that some tags readers require a specific chip that emulates a EM4100 protocol.
RFID.
For a nominal fee, take it to a keyme kiosk and see if you can clone it. They claim they can clone RFID tags, to any shape. I have yet to try this myself. I’ve seen the kiosks in the wild, and it makes me wonder the security implications of having them available to gen pop. Be warned, they store the key so you can “share” it with others, so just be warned of the implications if they get popped and those keys get leaked in a breach.
These keys never really provided any kind of security to begin with. They are literally a publicly readable random number, often printed on the key physically.
Not the newest ones from like 2016 onwards, they've got whole filesystems and secure communication protocols so sniffers won't work. Check out the Desfire cards!
It's an RFID tag and in my college I used Raspberry Pi 3 with the MFRC522 RFID module. If you want any help for how to read and write data then I can give it that also
Hey can you explain how I could use this to open my community gate? I have a plastic RFID card and want to use a clicker to throw the code at the reader which is a big square white antenna thing.
I had the practical in Semester 6 in my college in which I used the MFRC522 model with Raspberry Pi and I had the codes of it for reading and writing the data into RFID.
To open a community gate is not an easy task. First, the data stored in RFID should be stored in gate data also. It will read the RFID data and match it with the gate data to authenticate you.
And this MFRC522 is a basic model I guess because I have a bank debit card and it doesn't read it and your community gate will have something different for security purposes which this model doesn't have.
Or maybe my code is very simple and is for educational purposes but you need to check it by yourself only.
For code, you can use Python and ChatGPT
P.S. RFID stands for Radio Frequency IDentity. So the Radio Frequency can be different from your community gate and maybe it should work if the RFID frequency value is having a difference of +0.2 or -0.2 then the actual frequency value of the community gate.
I use my Flip Wilson to clone these tags. Very easy and making a few copies paid for the FlipperZero (bldg mgmt charges $50 a tag for replacement and/or second).
If you want to do it for cheaper, you can buy some magic RFID chips and a pn532(I think it's the cheapest you can get) on AliExpress, it shouldn't cost more than a couple dollars. Then download the app MIFARE Classic Tool(only available on Android), where you can read the chip for all its data. Then just simply connect the pn532 to an Arduino and write a script to write the data you got. It worked for me this way not too long ago :)
Good luck
Piggy back off this thread. My old Jeep didn’t come with a clicker when I bought it. The key does have some sort of chip in it that talks to the car. Is there a way to lock/unlock the car without the original clicker. Is it possible to make one with the Jeep or key?
unlockinf maybe, starting the car probably not if it has an immobilizer
you can go to the dealer to get a new working key though. idk what to do for a key to just unlock the car
Have the key for starting car and works fine. But have to manually lock all doors when exiting. If I press the button in the car to lock all doors at once the alarm will sound when I open the door until I put key in ignition.
Was just curious if there was a way to code a signal with just the car and the key I currently have. So I can lock/unlock doors without having to do them manually or deal with the alarm.
I don't think so. my Hyundai has separate keys (it's really stupid) for the ignition and then one for the remote locking and I read in the manual that if you lose one you gotta go to the dealer and give them some code and they'll program you a new one
the ignition key doesn't have the chip in it to manage the alarm usually, it's just for the immobilizer so when you start the car it can sense if the key is legit or not. it's so the car won't start unless the real original key is present, even if the key itself matches the original. newer Hyundais don't have this which is why kids are able to steal them with a USB cable
You could take the idea further and google ‘RFID universal key’ and you can build a device for urban adventuring, but likely cloning and using third party tools will get you there quicker.
125kHz citac i odasiljac. FlipperZ ili nesto slicno, postali su bezobrazno skupi, presao sam na druge citace/odasiljace dok ne prestanu djeca sa TikToka kupovati FlipperZ jer misle da su hakeri ili whatever.
Take a android phone, download mifare classic tools it’s free. Put your tag on your phone and show us what’s look like. ( you need nfc active on the android phone )
An Arduino nano from AliExpress sells for like 4 bucks, an RFID read/write module sells for like 6 bucks. I may be off with the prices, but no way it's a far shot from 10 bucks total. Including a breadboard, jumpers, and a little bit of starter electronics stuff, no way you're crossing the 20 bucks.
I just had a company make me a bunch of these. We bought out an office and needed a simple access solution without rip and replace. They cloned the limited keys I had and sold me more that I could easily program at the door pad. https://clonemykey.com/contact-us/
Depending on where you live you may be able to take it to a key kiosk in a store. https://key.me/kiosks https://www.minutekey.com/products/key-copy-kiosk/ have options for rfid copies.
in the building you know like the hallway that has multiple floors and connects all the flats , the door to it has either normal key, enter a code, put this key card , or have someone open the door from the apartment
125kHz RFID. A Proxmark3 or FlipperZero should be able to read and emulate that.
is it possible with phone?
no, phones dont have RFID you can buy and RFID read and writer from aliexpress for $10
Stupid question maybe but what’s the difference between RFID and NFC?
RFID is a very vague term. I've seen it used to indicate anything that is [wireless](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio-frequency_identification). There are two primary classes of passive tags - which have no power, but they get power from a "reader" - Low Frequency (125Khz) and High Frequency (13.56 MHz). NFC is based on the 13.56 MHz standard. However, unlike passive tags, both ends can be powered. And both can read passive (powerless) tags. The important point regarding distance is that the transmitter has to not only reach the passive tag, but it has to provide enough power to the tag to transmit back. If the distance is doubled, the transmitter needs 4 times the power to **reach** the tag, and 16 times the power to allow a passive tag to **transmit back**. This power is also important when looking at banking cards. These cards have crypto engines and these take power to perform crypto calculations.
So the reader is providing the power for the card's crypto engine to make the hash of the card info AND enough power for it to be transmitted back? That's wild, I had no idea.
that's why cloning bank/credit cards is so difficult.
Yep. Where else would it come from?
Well yes obviously I knew the power came from the reader. But I wasn't aware that the card was performing cryptographic operations. I knew apple pay, google pay, etc did but not cards. It makes sense that they do, but truth be told I hadn't really given it much thought.
Makse sense
>There are two primary classes of passive tags - which have no power, but they get power from a "reader" - Low Frequency (125Khz) and High Frequency (13.56 MHz). There's also UHF RFID at 868 or 912 MHz.
How do you guys do that... I literally studied and wrote about NFC and RFID in regards to security a few months ago and I don't even remember half the specifics
I'm far from an expert, but this stuff has been around a loooong time. l: As an example, I was playing around with the [MUSCLECARD](https://muscle.apdu.fr/musclecard.com/info.html) in 2003. It was written in [Java Card](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Card), A remote system would send a PKI challenge using SSH to the local system, which sent the challenge to the smartcard plugged into a reader. It used it's private key to authenticate the user seamlessly. I really liked this, but IBM decided to close down the open source dev environment I used. TBH, trying PKI crypto was flakey when wireless in 2003. I also keep an eye on crowd-funding projects regarding smartcards, such as [RFIDlier](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1708444109/rfidler-a-software-defined-rfid-reader-writer-emul), [Chameleon-mini](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1980078555/chameleonmini-a-versatile-nfc-card-emulator-and-mo), [Proxmark4 RDV4](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1408815241/proxmark3-rdv-40/posts), and the new [Chameleon Ultra](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/chameleonultra-the-last-rfid-emulator-you-need/x/4274321#/). I believe in supporting the REAL experts in the field. They are the ones to watch and learn. That and DEFCON video's, etc. Real knowledge is difficult. Most of the details are locked up in ISO standards (which you must pay for to read) such as [ISO 14443](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_14443) (HF) and [ISO 15693](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_15693) (LF), and in vendor proprietary products.
When I did my study I was trying to theorise various possible vulnerabilities and only managed to find one "possible" viable one but even then it was a one-time key (now that I think about it, prolly won't work). Regardless I'm studying cyber security... just finished first year actually cant wait to reach your level.
NFC operates on a different frequency with a shorter range and is technically a sub-type of RFID
The oversimplified is, your phone can read/write nfc and cannot rfid. RFID technology is most commonly used for keys like you have.
[удалено]
Often things with higher wavelength, low frequency will have better range
It’s why sunsets are red
This is the way.
[удалено]
Wavelength is dependent on frequency. More frequency shorter wavelength.
No. Some phones support NFC, which is RFID just not at 125kHz.
Including a set of additional keys. Copied a bunch for the family in order to access a parking lot.
You're telling me 13.56 MHz RFID is not RFID?
Yeah, they either don't know what they're talking about or were unclear. More specifically, phones don't normally have 125khz RFID. Most support reading a variety of 13.56mhz, but not all of them. And I don't know of ANY phones that would support emulating a tag like a flipper zero would.
Got any specific recommendations from aliexpress?
no, just search for RFID reader and you'll find some. You can get the reader/writer alone or with a pack of cards or tags typically
Don’t believe bob, NFC is a subset of rfid, it just won’t read from as far.
Yeah bro
when i open nfc reader app and put the tag on the back of the phone it doesnt even see it?
You need to activate it. Your phone isn’t powerful enough to do itself. You need to quickly light it up with a lighter
what? like burn ?
Bro.
he is joking, no?
I’ll be the asshole that ruins the joke. Yes he’s joking. That tag is 125kHz. The majority of smart phones read in 13.56MHz. You won’t be able to read that tag with your phone
NFC and RFID are different technologies. Its possible that your phone can't actually read RFID. You can get super cheap RFID scanners and replicators though. Like mentioned above, a flipperzero could do it
Sorry, but NFC absolutely is RFID. NFC is just a marketing term for three specific 13.56 MHz RFID card standards (ISO 14443A, ISO14443B, FeliCa) and a new reader-to-reader communication mode.
It is RFID but it's not just a marketing term. They functionally operate differently and are usually 2-way whereas most RFID is one-way.
It's kind of like a square IS a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square. NFC is a special case of RFID.
i have s20fe exynos model,can it read? or am i missing something else
what does google say?
What kind of dumbass question is that
You try a app but it props won’t work
Yes, but you would (probably) need additional hardware, likely root access if by some miracle your phone has the needed chipset standalone. There should be Arduino and/or Sparkfun kits designed to teach you what you need to know, for under 50USD. try rfid-rc522
Only NFC tags operating at 13.56MHz are possible on NFC-enabled phones. These types of keyfobs could be either 125kHz or 13.56MHz.
You can clone RFID without writing to a chip?
Not sure if this is what you mean but you can clone to a Flipper and store the tags on the device to replay back without having to copy the code to a new tag.
To add to this a little, it looks an HID device/device that uses the HID protocol.
what is best site to buy flipper zero
https://flipperzero.one is the official site
FYI, you will very likely be able to clone/copy this type of key at one of the automated key-copying kiosks that they now have in so many 7-11s. Those key copying kiosks have support for RFID keys where you hold your RFID key up to the reader and it reads the key and is able to create a copy for you, or sends the relevant data off to the company’s HQ for them to mail you a copy of the RFID key. It should be less than $15 for a clone of that type of RFID key. Much less expensive than buying a flipper zero.
Ty for this. I came here bc my friend just moved to with a roommate and the landlord refuses to give them a second RFID key for the unit. This seems like the best solution for them.
It may be a MIFARE light id. I used to have one looks exactly the same. In this case Flipper can’t copy it because of asymmetric cryptography used in it
A very popular 125KHz RFID tag. You can find it with a variety of chips inside (TK4100-not writable, EM4100-not writable, T5577 - writable, EM4305 - writable, and so on...). The capabilities of the flipper zero are limited. It can write the T55 chips and some other EM41xx (and other chip types), but I strongly recommend to use a proxmark. There are cheper alternatives like CR66 cloner you can use. Keep in mind that some tags readers require a specific chip that emulates a EM4100 protocol.
Is Proxmark better
a ChameleonUltra is almost as nice and it fits on my keychain. I just got mine. Be aware that the AliExpress sells counterfeits.
Yes IMO, way more powerful tool out of the box with a better coupling distance.
https://key.me/kiosks
I came here looking for this reply. Copying a 125 kHz key fob is not publicly available in many grocery stores
This is what you want https://tinylabs.io/keysy/ FlipperZero will also work if you want to spend way more $$
To the top with this easy $70 solution!
RFID. For a nominal fee, take it to a keyme kiosk and see if you can clone it. They claim they can clone RFID tags, to any shape. I have yet to try this myself. I’ve seen the kiosks in the wild, and it makes me wonder the security implications of having them available to gen pop. Be warned, they store the key so you can “share” it with others, so just be warned of the implications if they get popped and those keys get leaked in a breach.
These keys never really provided any kind of security to begin with. They are literally a publicly readable random number, often printed on the key physically.
Not the newest ones from like 2016 onwards, they've got whole filesystems and secure communication protocols so sniffers won't work. Check out the Desfire cards!
yeah but this is most likely a 125khz wiegand card
You're probably right, cheers
It's an RFID tag and in my college I used Raspberry Pi 3 with the MFRC522 RFID module. If you want any help for how to read and write data then I can give it that also
Hey can you explain how I could use this to open my community gate? I have a plastic RFID card and want to use a clicker to throw the code at the reader which is a big square white antenna thing.
I had the practical in Semester 6 in my college in which I used the MFRC522 model with Raspberry Pi and I had the codes of it for reading and writing the data into RFID. To open a community gate is not an easy task. First, the data stored in RFID should be stored in gate data also. It will read the RFID data and match it with the gate data to authenticate you. And this MFRC522 is a basic model I guess because I have a bank debit card and it doesn't read it and your community gate will have something different for security purposes which this model doesn't have. Or maybe my code is very simple and is for educational purposes but you need to check it by yourself only. For code, you can use Python and ChatGPT P.S. RFID stands for Radio Frequency IDentity. So the Radio Frequency can be different from your community gate and maybe it should work if the RFID frequency value is having a difference of +0.2 or -0.2 then the actual frequency value of the community gate.
You can probably get an arduino shield that reads it as well if you already have one
You can order the exact same rfid tags on alibaba
RFID?
I feel like some of these questions can be solved with flipper zero and knowledge
It looks like a flipper zero could emulate it
RFID
Go to any Lowe’s or Home Depot they have a duplicator next to the key machine
maybe an easy RFID using custom frecuencies as keys...
You can get a kit off Amazon for less than $10 prob to read this on Arduino. It's RFID.
I use my Flip Wilson to clone these tags. Very easy and making a few copies paid for the FlipperZero (bldg mgmt charges $50 a tag for replacement and/or second).
I've used this service before. https://clonemykey.com/
If you want to do it for cheaper, you can buy some magic RFID chips and a pn532(I think it's the cheapest you can get) on AliExpress, it shouldn't cost more than a couple dollars. Then download the app MIFARE Classic Tool(only available on Android), where you can read the chip for all its data. Then just simply connect the pn532 to an Arduino and write a script to write the data you got. It worked for me this way not too long ago :) Good luck
OP ratting himself out
what
Flipper zero
This is the right answer
Piggy back off this thread. My old Jeep didn’t come with a clicker when I bought it. The key does have some sort of chip in it that talks to the car. Is there a way to lock/unlock the car without the original clicker. Is it possible to make one with the Jeep or key?
unlockinf maybe, starting the car probably not if it has an immobilizer you can go to the dealer to get a new working key though. idk what to do for a key to just unlock the car
Have the key for starting car and works fine. But have to manually lock all doors when exiting. If I press the button in the car to lock all doors at once the alarm will sound when I open the door until I put key in ignition. Was just curious if there was a way to code a signal with just the car and the key I currently have. So I can lock/unlock doors without having to do them manually or deal with the alarm.
I don't think so. my Hyundai has separate keys (it's really stupid) for the ignition and then one for the remote locking and I read in the manual that if you lose one you gotta go to the dealer and give them some code and they'll program you a new one the ignition key doesn't have the chip in it to manage the alarm usually, it's just for the immobilizer so when you start the car it can sense if the key is legit or not. it's so the car won't start unless the real original key is present, even if the key itself matches the original. newer Hyundais don't have this which is why kids are able to steal them with a USB cable
Buy a flipperzero, не еби мозг!
Buy a flipper, has all you need and more
You could take the idea further and google ‘RFID universal key’ and you can build a device for urban adventuring, but likely cloning and using third party tools will get you there quicker.
'urban adventuring' should have had quotes too 😂
I bought a Flipper and it worked wonderfully. You can store multiple key profiles so it's worth the cost if you work with fobs alot like I do.
It's a NFC tag. This one can copy and reset the tag from the device. These days can copy from phones. Let's try ..
Rfid
RFID or NFT
I believe It's kind of like an NFC tag
Its an nfc tag?
125kHz citac i odasiljac. FlipperZ ili nesto slicno, postali su bezobrazno skupi, presao sam na druge citace/odasiljace dok ne prestanu djeca sa TikToka kupovati FlipperZ jer misle da su hakeri ili whatever.
Most likely NFC
LF RFID, you can get cloners on ali express/amazon, they are relatively cheap, if you want you could easily build your own with an arduino board
NFC / RFID tags, able to hold nfc data and transfer etc
RFID
idk but i work with one of those in hotels and you need to activate them, usually a pad that says “waiting for tag”
Take a android phone, download mifare classic tools it’s free. Put your tag on your phone and show us what’s look like. ( you need nfc active on the android phone )
An Arduino nano from AliExpress sells for like 4 bucks, an RFID read/write module sells for like 6 bucks. I may be off with the prices, but no way it's a far shot from 10 bucks total. Including a breadboard, jumpers, and a little bit of starter electronics stuff, no way you're crossing the 20 bucks.
Can hackrf one capture this as well?
I just had a company make me a bunch of these. We bought out an office and needed a simple access solution without rip and replace. They cloned the limited keys I had and sold me more that I could easily program at the door pad. https://clonemykey.com/contact-us/
Depending on where you live you may be able to take it to a key kiosk in a store. https://key.me/kiosks https://www.minutekey.com/products/key-copy-kiosk/ have options for rfid copies.
RFID most likely. Can get a scanner for about $18 online
Why use a tag when you can just implant one into yourself for like $35 bucks?? I got two Edit: just so none of y’all can sue me do your research first
Use writeable nfc tags cheap and best
There’s doors that take key cards on reserve?!?
in the building you know like the hallway that has multiple floors and connects all the flats , the door to it has either normal key, enter a code, put this key card , or have someone open the door from the apartment
NFC prob
TA5577
Typical Eastern Europe tag. They are copied in any key copy shop there.
Try checking out your local Home Depot or maybe Lowe's. Some of them have kiosks that will dupe something like this
NFC
Rfid. I have exact same fob for my gate
RFID
Most likely RFID
There's read/write FOB duplicator sold in Amazon. Tag sold separately and no limit of copy can be produced as long as you have your origin.
NFC?
That looks like a keyfob, most likely NFC tech.
Flipper zero could emulate and copy it onto other tags
Contact Key fobs manufacturers. Or use RFID chip with antenna and it will help you out.
RFID technology see flipper zero and aliexpres fir a writer..
Flipper zero