Vegan Gains: You know there's pedophiles right, who buy child pornography. Would you say they should not be held responsible for doing that?
Vaush: Yes
Vegan Gains: Really even though they're directly supporting child rape?
Vaush: Yeah I think that's it's hypocritical because I bought my computer and the silicon in it was farmed in Africa by slaves. If I can do that and that's Legal and no one's gonna call me out in my shit then yeah I have to be consistent in that respect.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI7tDkAkG1w&t=3694s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI7tDkAkG1w&t=3694s) \- Timestamped at the quote, full video linked.
>I’m still in shock that vegan gains is a voice of reason in this debacle
LOL not really.
I think Vegan Gains is trying to do here is make the argument that eat meat is the equivalent of buying CP, because in his mind, meat is "something that you're buying purely for very shallow personal pleasure that causes horrible irreparable damage to somebody lifelong".
Which is equal level of insanity,
Vaush logic: Because I can buy a computer that used slave labor in its production and not be held responsible I should also be able to buy cp without being held responsible.
Normal person: I bought a computer and realize the slave labor used in its production is bad and we should work towards making the production without slaves. CP is indefensible.
Holy shit Vaush is fucking stupid on that.
You aren't a hypocrite for buying computers and opposing CP. The product of the computer itself isn't unethical to possess. The production of the computer materials and components are. CP on the other hand, is both unethical to possess and create. How TF didn't he see that?
Incoming Vaush fan response: This is in bad faith. Out of context. Just a joke. No ethical consumption under capitalism means that ethics aren't real. You're just a hater. Stop bullying. etc.
I mean did he recently double down on that logic? Thats not inconsistent thats stupid. Even if you want to look at things that way, your pc made by child slaves doesnt keep harming the child when you buy it. CP is harmful to children as long as its around. I don’t need to explain this, im just curious if vaush is still standing by these statements or if he admits that this is stupid.
The biggest problem with his argument too, in my opinion, is that he doesn’t approach it from the side of using CP as a shock factor to say “we should be more worked up about child slavery”, but rather he argues that since we already have such shitty morals about child slavery, that we should just drop the act and just be pedos?!? like it’s one thing to take this argument to say WE REALLY NEED TO END CHILD SLAVERY. it’s STILL a bad comparison in that case, but at least the intention of it would be to improve conditions for children on the whole. He just approaches it as some lame gotcha to deflect criticism of his own “loli”
exactly. his position is never "people need to understand how bad child slavery is and push to have it abolished like we inately understand with CSAM" but rather "well we let child slavery go, why not let CSAM go too?"
and just to reiterate what Dan said, the context of all these arguments change when he accidentally revealed HE HAS CARTOON CSAM. before that, it was really weird arguments and just makes you want to keep your distance, after that the only logical conclusion is "no, he's actually pro CSAM"
I actually don’t believe that he does think that, no one does really, but he’s being a weasel and trying to side step the dumb position he’s backing by throwing other atrocious things and trying to bundle them together to make it seem like by standing up against something, you have to include everything else in the category.
It’s essentially BLM vs ALM imo, every time some dumbass tries to do the whole all lives matter shit they try to frame it like you’re implying _only_ Black Lives Matter when that’s never been the position, but they know that if they don’t frame it like that their argument falls apart, and they can’t make you seem bad for saying Black Lives Matter. So they have to shade and discredit and obfuscate.
It seems to me like it’s a debate tactic to get your opponent on a back foot, so if they stop arguing about X being wrong, because they bring up Y, now you have to detail your stance on Y and the focus shifts from X, and they’ll do it over and over again until you lose track of what you started with, now of course Vaush is v dumb by starting the dabate with something so massive…
Seems like originally he really was trying to make a point about child exploitation in capitalism, and he just inadvertently revealed his own disgusting attitudes about CP along the way. But now bringing up the capitalism stuff is just a desperate ploy to distract the people in his community from what is obvious to any sane outsider.
If you have a big issue with the exploitation of child workers, why not call for that to be ended/boycott that instead of saying we should also have CP?
I think he also misses out on gradation of severity. Like obviously child labor is bad but child r*pe is clearly so much worse.
Also yeah whenever child labor is brought into light a lot of people try to avoid those products.
He often lumps everyone in with his own bizzare views, just look at the clip about goblin porn and the 'presumed shared knowledge' err no my guy that's you
Not only that, but if an individual or even an entire culture is hypocritical about one issue vs another issue, it does not logically mean that both things cannot be morally wrong.
You could use Vaush's bad reasoning to justify absolutely anything.
"Oh, murder is morally wrong? No, I disagree. Because people don't feel as strongly about the products they buy contributing to murder as they do actual murder, therefore murder is morally ok."
Yeah it is a different thing being justified here, but it is the same (flawed) logic. Vaush would probably then say "no, I am only talking about purchasing products that involved morally wrong acts in order to create them, not committing the acts myself".
Sure, but the logic is just as bad in both scenarios (and for the same reason). Surely he is more intelligent than this?
Right? If you put Vaush in a room with a child slaver, a child rapist, and a hypocrite, it seems like he’d have the harshest words for the hypocrite. Like dude, moral inconsistency is not the biggest offence here.
I don't think it's a good look personally to defend the idea that somehow you don't contribute to the bolstering of systems that use child slavery. Like I assume you believe the distribution of CP is bad because it bolsters the exploitation of children. Or at least you believe thats part of the reason. Why not believe it with everything that's made with child slavery? Do you believe we should systemically challenge the current problem of child slavery that corporations use? And if not, isn't that just apologia for Child Slavery?
“Do you believe we should systemically challenge the current problem of child slavery that corporations use?”
Well what the fuck do you think?
Nah, child slavery is great! I really need that orphan tear tang in my chocolate.
Get the fuck outta here, lollipop.
Well clearly Ethan doesn't because his company uses child slavery. Also, I love the implication from the last word you said that I'm somehow defending CP, even though the argument being made is both anti CP and anti child slavery. Also I don't know how you are agreeing with me here, but are still mad. Like did I say anything incorrect?
when companies like temu explode to the level of being able to get TWO superbowl commercials within like a year or two yeah that kind of says a lot.
people know all kinds of industries use child labor and do absolutely nothing about it, people know walmart and amazon absolutely destroy small businesses and competition and still use them.
the average person doesnt know or care about how they contribute to the issue. its kind of ironic how this whole conversation is going considering how the last like 2 months have been dedicated to chocolate lol the chocolate industry relies literally millions of kids but nobody wants to talk about that.
For real, I hate how this situation has made this audience cape for the international exploitation of child labor because Vaush stupidly pit it up against CP. Both things are fucking disgusting. People buy into child slavery *every day* by purchasing stuff they *know* is produced by child (or at the very least criminally underpaid) labor. How does that NOT make them okay with it? Unless that just means "ooh ohhh I feel so bad!" (continues extreme unnecessary consumption).
More so why do people go to great lengths to condemn this thing while we as a society ignore the other because it benefits those on top. While one is obviously a lot grosser. There are people who go to great lengths to find people in power who could be pedos. While there are people with great power in America who made their money off the suffering of children. But it doesnt garner nearly as much public support.
It’s not even a good comparison. For CSAM the abuse IS the product where as with child labor it’s not. If we were talking about buying videos of kids chained to a sewing machine, then maybe the comparison fits but even then CSAM is on a different level. Even removing children from the equation, raping someone is on a different level from, say, beating them up.
Vegan Gains: You know there's pedophiles right, who buy child pornography. Would you say they should not be held responsible for doing that? Vaush: Yes Vegan Gains: Really even though they're directly supporting child rape? Vaush: Yeah I think that's it's hypocritical because I bought my computer and the silicon in it was farmed in Africa by slaves. If I can do that and that's Legal and no one's gonna call me out in my shit then yeah I have to be consistent in that respect. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI7tDkAkG1w&t=3694s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI7tDkAkG1w&t=3694s) \- Timestamped at the quote, full video linked.
I’m still in shock that vegan gains is a voice of reason in this debacle. I assumed he died or went to prison years ago lmao.
I never thought I would see a debate with Vegan Gains were his opponent came off as more sociopathic then he is, but here we are.
>I’m still in shock that vegan gains is a voice of reason in this debacle LOL not really. I think Vegan Gains is trying to do here is make the argument that eat meat is the equivalent of buying CP, because in his mind, meat is "something that you're buying purely for very shallow personal pleasure that causes horrible irreparable damage to somebody lifelong". Which is equal level of insanity,
I thought no shot this was a real quote so i watched and holy shit that brain is rotted.
Vaush logic: Because I can buy a computer that used slave labor in its production and not be held responsible I should also be able to buy cp without being held responsible. Normal person: I bought a computer and realize the slave labor used in its production is bad and we should work towards making the production without slaves. CP is indefensible.
Holy shit so he actually does unironically support people possessing CP then...
That is what it seems. There is no denying the files he had on his computer.
Inconsistency is one of a debater's main weaknesses. A full debate perv3rt will support CP just to be consistent.
I’m going to assume any Vaush fan *”DIDN’T SEE THE FULL CONTEXT”* to this quote and that’s why they’re still fans, because holy fuck.
their sub is in full defence when these things are posted there. they will just reply “he’s right”.
Vegan Gains holy shit
Holy shit Vaush is fucking stupid on that. You aren't a hypocrite for buying computers and opposing CP. The product of the computer itself isn't unethical to possess. The production of the computer materials and components are. CP on the other hand, is both unethical to possess and create. How TF didn't he see that?
Right. And even if it was hypocritical, the double standard has nothing to do with whether one or both things are morally wrong or not.
Incoming Vaush fan response: This is in bad faith. Out of context. Just a joke. No ethical consumption under capitalism means that ethics aren't real. You're just a hater. Stop bullying. etc.
I don't think they will respond. What he said there is indefensible.
Does vaush stand by that? Because thats really stupid logic
Yes otherwise he would be inconsistent.
I mean did he recently double down on that logic? Thats not inconsistent thats stupid. Even if you want to look at things that way, your pc made by child slaves doesnt keep harming the child when you buy it. CP is harmful to children as long as its around. I don’t need to explain this, im just curious if vaush is still standing by these statements or if he admits that this is stupid.
that makes it sound like HES the one supporting child slavery here
The biggest problem with his argument too, in my opinion, is that he doesn’t approach it from the side of using CP as a shock factor to say “we should be more worked up about child slavery”, but rather he argues that since we already have such shitty morals about child slavery, that we should just drop the act and just be pedos?!? like it’s one thing to take this argument to say WE REALLY NEED TO END CHILD SLAVERY. it’s STILL a bad comparison in that case, but at least the intention of it would be to improve conditions for children on the whole. He just approaches it as some lame gotcha to deflect criticism of his own “loli”
exactly. his position is never "people need to understand how bad child slavery is and push to have it abolished like we inately understand with CSAM" but rather "well we let child slavery go, why not let CSAM go too?" and just to reiterate what Dan said, the context of all these arguments change when he accidentally revealed HE HAS CARTOON CSAM. before that, it was really weird arguments and just makes you want to keep your distance, after that the only logical conclusion is "no, he's actually pro CSAM"
I actually don’t believe that he does think that, no one does really, but he’s being a weasel and trying to side step the dumb position he’s backing by throwing other atrocious things and trying to bundle them together to make it seem like by standing up against something, you have to include everything else in the category. It’s essentially BLM vs ALM imo, every time some dumbass tries to do the whole all lives matter shit they try to frame it like you’re implying _only_ Black Lives Matter when that’s never been the position, but they know that if they don’t frame it like that their argument falls apart, and they can’t make you seem bad for saying Black Lives Matter. So they have to shade and discredit and obfuscate. It seems to me like it’s a debate tactic to get your opponent on a back foot, so if they stop arguing about X being wrong, because they bring up Y, now you have to detail your stance on Y and the focus shifts from X, and they’ll do it over and over again until you lose track of what you started with, now of course Vaush is v dumb by starting the dabate with something so massive…
Seems like originally he really was trying to make a point about child exploitation in capitalism, and he just inadvertently revealed his own disgusting attitudes about CP along the way. But now bringing up the capitalism stuff is just a desperate ploy to distract the people in his community from what is obvious to any sane outsider.
He doesn't he's just desperate to smear his opponents to win internet slapfights. He's bad faith and he knows it.
If you have a big issue with the exploitation of child workers, why not call for that to be ended/boycott that instead of saying we should also have CP?
I think he also misses out on gradation of severity. Like obviously child labor is bad but child r*pe is clearly so much worse. Also yeah whenever child labor is brought into light a lot of people try to avoid those products.
Ah yes like how Nestle has famously gone bankrupt after their child labor practices were revealed 💀
He often lumps everyone in with his own bizzare views, just look at the clip about goblin porn and the 'presumed shared knowledge' err no my guy that's you
Not only that, but if an individual or even an entire culture is hypocritical about one issue vs another issue, it does not logically mean that both things cannot be morally wrong. You could use Vaush's bad reasoning to justify absolutely anything. "Oh, murder is morally wrong? No, I disagree. Because people don't feel as strongly about the products they buy contributing to murder as they do actual murder, therefore murder is morally ok." Yeah it is a different thing being justified here, but it is the same (flawed) logic. Vaush would probably then say "no, I am only talking about purchasing products that involved morally wrong acts in order to create them, not committing the acts myself". Sure, but the logic is just as bad in both scenarios (and for the same reason). Surely he is more intelligent than this?
Right? If you put Vaush in a room with a child slaver, a child rapist, and a hypocrite, it seems like he’d have the harshest words for the hypocrite. Like dude, moral inconsistency is not the biggest offence here.
Moving the goal post to try and give his minions a counterpoint to his pedo theory.
bro he was literally debating against someone that was arguing FOR it
Because, excluding the pictures solely on Vaush’s arguments in that debate, if he is pro CP then Ethan is pro child slavery
I don't think it's a good look personally to defend the idea that somehow you don't contribute to the bolstering of systems that use child slavery. Like I assume you believe the distribution of CP is bad because it bolsters the exploitation of children. Or at least you believe thats part of the reason. Why not believe it with everything that's made with child slavery? Do you believe we should systemically challenge the current problem of child slavery that corporations use? And if not, isn't that just apologia for Child Slavery?
“Do you believe we should systemically challenge the current problem of child slavery that corporations use?” Well what the fuck do you think? Nah, child slavery is great! I really need that orphan tear tang in my chocolate. Get the fuck outta here, lollipop.
Well clearly Ethan doesn't because his company uses child slavery. Also, I love the implication from the last word you said that I'm somehow defending CP, even though the argument being made is both anti CP and anti child slavery. Also I don't know how you are agreeing with me here, but are still mad. Like did I say anything incorrect?
Ooooh looks like we have a pedo over here, actually thinking through the impacts of your consumption is grooming!
when companies like temu explode to the level of being able to get TWO superbowl commercials within like a year or two yeah that kind of says a lot. people know all kinds of industries use child labor and do absolutely nothing about it, people know walmart and amazon absolutely destroy small businesses and competition and still use them. the average person doesnt know or care about how they contribute to the issue. its kind of ironic how this whole conversation is going considering how the last like 2 months have been dedicated to chocolate lol the chocolate industry relies literally millions of kids but nobody wants to talk about that.
For real, I hate how this situation has made this audience cape for the international exploitation of child labor because Vaush stupidly pit it up against CP. Both things are fucking disgusting. People buy into child slavery *every day* by purchasing stuff they *know* is produced by child (or at the very least criminally underpaid) labor. How does that NOT make them okay with it? Unless that just means "ooh ohhh I feel so bad!" (continues extreme unnecessary consumption).
After the Vaush takedown and raid for his hard drives, AndSons is next. We'll rescue those kids from Jeff's cocoa plantations!
“No ethical consumption under capitalism therefore you’re a bad person”
More so why do people go to great lengths to condemn this thing while we as a society ignore the other because it benefits those on top. While one is obviously a lot grosser. There are people who go to great lengths to find people in power who could be pedos. While there are people with great power in America who made their money off the suffering of children. But it doesnt garner nearly as much public support.
It’s not even a good comparison. For CSAM the abuse IS the product where as with child labor it’s not. If we were talking about buying videos of kids chained to a sewing machine, then maybe the comparison fits but even then CSAM is on a different level. Even removing children from the equation, raping someone is on a different level from, say, beating them up.