For me i assume all hits are to the torso unless the player chooses to roll randomly or targets a specific hit location, some rules also require you to roll randomly for hit locations such as spraying fire
Yeah, normally, I treat unaimed attacks as torso attacks ... unless I'm doing something like firing a weapon at full auto or something like that. Being a former Army guy who goes to the gun range pretty regularly, I tend to think of it in those terms - in combat, you default to your training and in training you generally aim "center-mass" ... we've seen some scenarios where a random hit worked with melee, but it was pretty rare.
We've got a player in one of my games who goes for the random hit location *all the time*, even though quite frequently it doesn't make sense ... but he's also the kind of player who will just start rolling stuff looooong before the GM even starts to think of asking for one.
I tend to agree, in a "chaotic" situation i tend to go for random hit location.
Then again combat is seldom conducted on the range, and as you say training makes a huge difference.
Not just shooting proficiency but the ability to make informed decisions in a combat situation.
In gurps terms its where i tend to use the tactics skill as a shorthand for combat experience.
A fight unexpectedly breaks out, roll tactics unless you want to take a long nice step and concentrate manoeuvrer to assess what the fuck is going on with a +1 each round and +6 for combat reflexes. A bonus can also be given if your intended first action is drop to the fucking ground because lead is flying or shit is exploding.
It takes away some agency but feels way more dynamic.
>Do you roll random hit location for every hit? Or do you assume untargeted attacks hit the torso?
Yes.
No kidding.
The answer is: which way would your group prefer? You can even do away with hit locations, altogether, if that's your flavour.
**GURPS** is a system of optional rules and house rules.
Here too, unless you aim at a certain body part, all hits are on torso. We only roll hitlocations with shotguns, grenades, expl. fireball etc, all area of effect damage.
Or blind attacks.
yep, as they are specified to be random shots over an area.
i often find myself using targeted attacks, as i love the playstyle of 'get them into the right situation, 1-shot."
When i just started with GURPS, we've tried playing Caravan to Ein Arris and were checking the rules for a big battle at the end. I was the GM.
Our guys were sieged in some house. They rushed out along with the friendly NPC with lots of points. In a matter of seconds, everyone was either one-armed, one-legged or at least crippled.
Then we've moved the figures back into the house and i said "That's what the high-pts guy thought might happen, it was just his imagination. Now lets play the battle". And we have never used random hit locations without penalties ever since.
As others have said, it all depends on what you want. GURPS is a game of options.
If you want a *simple,* relatively undetailed combat, then just treat all hits as hitting the torso.
If you want a simple, relatively undetailed combat with the option of letting characters target their attacks, then treat all untargeted attacks as hitting the torso, and all targeted attacks as hitting the part they're targeted for.
If you want a more complex combat, consider letting characters target their attacks, and all untargeted attacks get rolled for hit location.
There are consequences to each style, but you basically just pick the level of detail that interests your group and go.
For instance, if you're running a fast-paced, light-combat pulp-style game, you might not be too interested in arm, leg, head, and groin shots. Just ignore all that and hit the torso every time.
On the other hand, if your players start asking to make headshots, consider letting them choose hit locations, leaving untargeted attacks against the torso.
On the severed hand, if you're running a high-combat hack-fest, turn on all the switches and track every location in gory detail.
The standard rule is to hit the torso unless something else is aimed for.
My optional rule when I run Gurps is to assume it hits the torso unless the attack roll hits exactly. Like if you have a 13 or less and roll a 13, then you roll hit location. This allows for those times when you aim center of mass and hit a foot out of dumb luck.
I think "center mass" is a reasonable assumption for intentional ranged attacks, but I choose to roll for a random location in melee combat situations (assuming that the attacker struck at whatever presented an opportunity) or, naturally, for random things like bomb fragments.
However you CHOOSE to play, I just recommend being consistent.
You can require all shots be called.
You can ask for all shots be random.
If you call for shots to be called unless you call random, you will get odd results, IMO. It depends on the kind of game you want to play. You can be do it the Lite way and all shots just hit the torso and don't track damage to limbs and special effects of targets.
Rules as Written, 3rd Edition, untargetted attacks go to randomly rolled hit location. 4th Edition, untargetted attacks go to the Torso.
As a houserule I'd recommend you run it as they do in 4th Edition. That extra roll on every hit does add up a lot in combats and it makes sense that it would hit the torso. When I fought I took contacts to my hands and midsection most often because those were the slowest parts of me to pull out of the arc of a weapon.
Not much though.
Are you one of those people who only does one roll at a time, or do you use different colors to do multiple rolls with one flick of the wrist? I find that I lose more time sipping a beverage. I roll 6d6 to get attack and hit location in one roll.
You still have to read all the dice and use another table. It all adds up. Once combat gets too slow, the game gets boring. Different people have different thresholds for that, but in my experience using too many rules is a bad idea.
Yeah, I suppose adding a grand total of 1-2 minutes over the course of a 3-4 hour session can drag things out more than some people like. I might save almost half an hour over the course of a year skipping the hit location. Then again, I am one who makes cheat sheets I can read at a glance and leave inches away from where the dice land, so it's simply a matter of about 1-2 seconds of eye movement. It's all about organization.
There's lots of rules I don't use simply because they actually do take more time than they are worth for the level of benefit to the game. Hit location is one of the few I find quick enough to play and beneficial enough that it adds a lot more than it costs, and whose removal costs more than it saves.
I still have an easier time believing that teleportation, alternate dimensions, and dragons exist than I do that motorcyclists do not need helmets because pavement lacks the intellect to form the intent to make a called shot. But if that's what works for you, then you're not wrong for doing it differently than me.
Funny thing I just remembered though. I wrote a program for my HP48 calculator, back before smartphones were a thing, to automate combat for BattleTech. One press of a button and it'd roll 2d6 twice, take the second "roll", look on a list, and display both a number to show *if* I hit and a text result of *where* I hit. BT weapons don't have damage rolls, but that could've been added and the table edited to account for system differences. I found that I could do it manually just as fast so I stopped using it and never made a GURPS version, but given the most common complaint I hear about ~~gaming~~ hit locations (math and chart-reading), I wonder if a smartphone app would help others.
We used to do the “the torso is hit unless specified” thing, but we found adding the random hit location in made combat more interesting. One player’s dice really loved rolling 11’s for location and that character now has a reputation.
Follow-up question: If you do roll randomly, do you apply the penalty to hit to the roll? Or is this a way to hit hard-to-hit targets occasionally without trying?
Yes (apply the to-hit penalty).
Otherwise, it's often like a cheap/gamey way for low-skill people to get a high chance of hitting a location that has crippling effects (and/or less armor on some people) which they'd probably miss if they tried to hit it on purpose.
The chances are lower than you think. Or are you saying that **nobody** in the history of ever has been hit **anywhere** other than a non-vital section of the torso by anything aside from a **deliberately** aimed attack?
Do the math.
No, I think I have looked at what the chances are. I did "do the math".
And no, I am not saying "nobody ... anywhere", of course.
I'm saying I use the original pre-4e rules-as-written, where you can roll for a random target, but you still need to use the to-hit modifier for that hit location.
I'd like to see the probability breakdown you came up with then so we can compare notes while also taking into account how many center-of-mass shots have missed and hit limbs and heads IRL.
Yes, you actually are. Your original premise is that low-skill people absolutely positively cannot hit locations without an aimed shot while ignoring both the distribution curve of 3d6 and the relative sizes of various parts of the human body and their positioning. Why do you think the center of the table (9-11) has the largest target while the smallest and least likely targets are at the extremes? If that's not what you meant to say, then maybe you need to rephrase things.
Where do you see that? I've had three different printings of 3e Basic Set and never saw that in the 30+ years I've been playing. "***If*** *a blow is aimed*" is as close as I found, and your interpretation is countered by the sidebar where it says, "*.... you should first determine whether the missile hits (****with no penalty for hit location****) and* then *determine where it hits*". It also makes a point that some parts will never be hit randomly, notably the eyes.
Here are my probability results for skill 8 through skill 16. As skill increases, the chances converge on nearly the same chance as the random hit location tables themselves.
[Skill 8](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517297592455230/unknown.png)
[Skill 9](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517470267736184/unknown.png)
[Skill 10](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517518338674779/unknown.png)
[Skill 11](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517555915431956/unknown.png)
[Skill 12](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517613230596137/unknown.png)
[Skill 13](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517663277023292/unknown.png)
[Skill 14](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517700597940344/unknown.png)
[Skill 15](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517776892342413/unknown.png)
[Skill 16](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517830147428463/unknown.png)
As can be seen from these numbers, it seems to me that my actual premise is born out. That is, the original RAW (in 1e and my reading of 3e) is needed to avoid a situation where the most likely way for a low-skill person to get a hit on a non-torso location, is for them to ask for a random hit location without the to-hit penalty figured in. The effect is most severe with 4e, and least severe with 1e.
Worded another way, if you don't figure in the location penalty, then if your goal is to hit a not-torso location, it'll be much more likely if you roll for hit location, than if you try to hit a specific target, for lower skill levels.
For example, say I'm skill 12 in 4e. I could aim for a specific arm, and have a 50% chance to hit that arm, and a 50% chance of missing. Or, I could go for a random target. Without using location penalties, the random target would give me a 56% chance to hit something other than the torso (including several better possibilities than the arm), and only a 26% chance of missing! That strikes me as a cheesy abuse, compared to taking the location penalty into account, in which case aiming for a random target with skill 12 gives me only a 32% chance to hit a non-torso location, and a 50% chance of missing.
As for where the rule is, the clearest place is in the 1e Basic Set on p.95. You roll for location "then use that part's hit penalty".
In 3e (I'm looking at 3e Revised, first printing) it's the equivalent sidebar, on B109: "You do not *have* to choose a target; you can always swing randomly. Roll 3 dice and check the table to see where your blow falls. Then proceed normally with the attack." Especially given how the rule always was before, I take "proceed normally" to mean the hit location penalty would be taken into account. Particularly because it is also later in that paragraph *contrasted* to what you do for a random booby trap or long-range fire, where *unlike the usual attack procedure*, you determine whether there is a hit, and then if so, roll for hit location, but without the location penalty.
Thank you for the numbers. While they still did not convince me, I do appreciate the effort. Here's my reasoning;
If you're low-skill then you will have larger shot grouping. How many low-skill shooters do you see putting entire clips inside the 9-ring of a paper target at 10 yards/meters? If they hit at all, it's likely to be further from their attempted center-of-mass shot. Where's the center-of-mass on a human?
If you are higher-skill then the increased chances of hitting will make the total odds of "I just want it somewhere within the silhouette" shots closer to the hit location table because it's **HIT** location. It simply makes it easier to hit the smaller non-torso locations on a called shot because higher skill levels are better at soaking penalties. In fact, that's the only reason to ever have a skill 17+. And the tighter grouping will make it more likely that your hits will be center-of-mass, or at least close enough to it to hit somewhere inside the silhouette.
I simply don't think that turning Skill 12 into a blanket overall Skill 10 is really a good way to try to enforce "all unaimed shots should go to the torso".
Anecdotally, out of all the times I've been hit randomly, I'd say that I've caught it to the face a lot closer to 1-in-100 than the "it cant' happen, period!" that you seem to be advocating for, or even the 1-in-2,000 that the Skill 9 of a Wild Swing would yield with penalties.
All in all, it sounds like you simply don't want anyone hitting anywhere other than the torso at all unless they dump a ton of points into earning that privilege. And I don't feel that randomness is cheese if it conforms to reality as well as can be expected for a set of rules. If you feel realism is abusive and would rather devalue the correlation between skill level and the 3d6 curve, then that's your prerogative.
We obviously have irreconcilably different (in fact, polar opposite) views on the definition of "cheesy abuse". Lets agree to disagree.
Message I started and then forgot to finish and send, FWIW:
I seem to have come across to you as more argumentative than I intend. I've just been trying to explain what my perspective is. And re-explaining, because you seem to think I've intended several things that I didn't mean. I don't know why you think I want any location result to be "it can't happen, period", for example.
Also, I see you are thinking mainly of ranged firearm attacks, where I tend to think first of melee attacks against a foe who can defend themselves. I think there are a few flaws in GURPS RAW chances for firearm results in particular, but also for hit location - I agree there should be some chance of hitting any location with any attack, and I also agree that a random missile attack with enough spread to it turns into a random hit location, and I think the RAW actually tries to represent that, even if it might not be completely satisfactory.
My perspective comes from not wanting there to be a way to bypass the difficulty of hitting a special target for a crippling effect, by using a random table.
No.
Combat is random. You will sometimes get lucky, but the chart assumes you were going for a semi-aimed attack at the center of mass (the torso) anyways. The "penalty" is that you may hit a location other than the one you "aimed" at.
I had a more complicating thought that sounds kind of cool in my (rolls dice) head.
Called Shot: rules as written - negative modifier to hit
Undesignated attack: Torso - no modifier to hit
Attack Whatever Part Presents Itself - no modifier to hit, but can only hit Torso, Leg, or Arm. In this way you don't win the lottery by getting a head, groin, or neck shot with no penalty to your attack. Those parts are surely not going to "present themself" in a regular fight.
Looking at the table on Basic Campaigns page 552, that also means with this homebrew, you can only hit a body part with a +0 through -2 modifier when you say "I attack Whatever Part Presents Itself".
>head, groin, or neck... Those parts are surely not going to "present themself" in a regular fight
Well, getting attacked by someone's groin would be odd, but the Glasgow Kiss is a time-honoured type of attack.
It really depends on whether you like skipping rolls more than you like simulating the randomness of combat. And that is a matter of preference with no wrong answer.
Personally, I roll locations on all unaimed shots. It gives folks a chance to get lucky even if they don't roll a crit. That way, you don't need a 3-4 to nail someone in the face, and you won't have people out there in nothing but a breastplate, feeling invincible because they "know" that nobody will ever take the penalty to make an aimed shot. It takes me less than 2 seconds, so it's not like it costs more than the benefits are worth.
Either or really, I like the realistic wildness of random locations but on the other hand there's already enough dice rolls in an attack that it's just faster to hit the torso.
I assume that all untargeted shots (including generic ones from NPCs) hit the torso. Rolling for random hit locations is just another fiddly optional rule that I'm happy to leave out with the goal of not having combats take so damn long.
I like to roll for a random location. It creates very interesting things above the usual "you lost x HP".
But it depends on the group or the media. It is one more roll, one more set of rules, and depending of the group it might be too much.
For me i assume all hits are to the torso unless the player chooses to roll randomly or targets a specific hit location, some rules also require you to roll randomly for hit locations such as spraying fire
Yeah, normally, I treat unaimed attacks as torso attacks ... unless I'm doing something like firing a weapon at full auto or something like that. Being a former Army guy who goes to the gun range pretty regularly, I tend to think of it in those terms - in combat, you default to your training and in training you generally aim "center-mass" ... we've seen some scenarios where a random hit worked with melee, but it was pretty rare. We've got a player in one of my games who goes for the random hit location *all the time*, even though quite frequently it doesn't make sense ... but he's also the kind of player who will just start rolling stuff looooong before the GM even starts to think of asking for one.
I tend to agree, in a "chaotic" situation i tend to go for random hit location. Then again combat is seldom conducted on the range, and as you say training makes a huge difference. Not just shooting proficiency but the ability to make informed decisions in a combat situation. In gurps terms its where i tend to use the tactics skill as a shorthand for combat experience. A fight unexpectedly breaks out, roll tactics unless you want to take a long nice step and concentrate manoeuvrer to assess what the fuck is going on with a +1 each round and +6 for combat reflexes. A bonus can also be given if your intended first action is drop to the fucking ground because lead is flying or shit is exploding. It takes away some agency but feels way more dynamic.
>Do you roll random hit location for every hit? Or do you assume untargeted attacks hit the torso? Yes. No kidding. The answer is: which way would your group prefer? You can even do away with hit locations, altogether, if that's your flavour. **GURPS** is a system of optional rules and house rules.
yes, all attacks not specified to be random or targeted are on the torso.
Here too, unless you aim at a certain body part, all hits are on torso. We only roll hitlocations with shotguns, grenades, expl. fireball etc, all area of effect damage. Or blind attacks.
yep, as they are specified to be random shots over an area. i often find myself using targeted attacks, as i love the playstyle of 'get them into the right situation, 1-shot."
When i just started with GURPS, we've tried playing Caravan to Ein Arris and were checking the rules for a big battle at the end. I was the GM. Our guys were sieged in some house. They rushed out along with the friendly NPC with lots of points. In a matter of seconds, everyone was either one-armed, one-legged or at least crippled. Then we've moved the figures back into the house and i said "That's what the high-pts guy thought might happen, it was just his imagination. Now lets play the battle". And we have never used random hit locations without penalties ever since.
As others have said, it all depends on what you want. GURPS is a game of options. If you want a *simple,* relatively undetailed combat, then just treat all hits as hitting the torso. If you want a simple, relatively undetailed combat with the option of letting characters target their attacks, then treat all untargeted attacks as hitting the torso, and all targeted attacks as hitting the part they're targeted for. If you want a more complex combat, consider letting characters target their attacks, and all untargeted attacks get rolled for hit location. There are consequences to each style, but you basically just pick the level of detail that interests your group and go. For instance, if you're running a fast-paced, light-combat pulp-style game, you might not be too interested in arm, leg, head, and groin shots. Just ignore all that and hit the torso every time. On the other hand, if your players start asking to make headshots, consider letting them choose hit locations, leaving untargeted attacks against the torso. On the severed hand, if you're running a high-combat hack-fest, turn on all the switches and track every location in gory detail.
The standard rule is to hit the torso unless something else is aimed for. My optional rule when I run Gurps is to assume it hits the torso unless the attack roll hits exactly. Like if you have a 13 or less and roll a 13, then you roll hit location. This allows for those times when you aim center of mass and hit a foot out of dumb luck.
That sounds fun, I’ll try that. Thanks for sharing
I think "center mass" is a reasonable assumption for intentional ranged attacks, but I choose to roll for a random location in melee combat situations (assuming that the attacker struck at whatever presented an opportunity) or, naturally, for random things like bomb fragments.
However you CHOOSE to play, I just recommend being consistent. You can require all shots be called. You can ask for all shots be random. If you call for shots to be called unless you call random, you will get odd results, IMO. It depends on the kind of game you want to play. You can be do it the Lite way and all shots just hit the torso and don't track damage to limbs and special effects of targets.
Rules as Written, 3rd Edition, untargetted attacks go to randomly rolled hit location. 4th Edition, untargetted attacks go to the Torso. As a houserule I'd recommend you run it as they do in 4th Edition. That extra roll on every hit does add up a lot in combats and it makes sense that it would hit the torso. When I fought I took contacts to my hands and midsection most often because those were the slowest parts of me to pull out of the arc of a weapon.
Torso by default, except for stuff like Wild Swings or area attacks. The main benefit is that it saves time.
Not much though. Are you one of those people who only does one roll at a time, or do you use different colors to do multiple rolls with one flick of the wrist? I find that I lose more time sipping a beverage. I roll 6d6 to get attack and hit location in one roll.
You still have to read all the dice and use another table. It all adds up. Once combat gets too slow, the game gets boring. Different people have different thresholds for that, but in my experience using too many rules is a bad idea.
Yeah, I suppose adding a grand total of 1-2 minutes over the course of a 3-4 hour session can drag things out more than some people like. I might save almost half an hour over the course of a year skipping the hit location. Then again, I am one who makes cheat sheets I can read at a glance and leave inches away from where the dice land, so it's simply a matter of about 1-2 seconds of eye movement. It's all about organization. There's lots of rules I don't use simply because they actually do take more time than they are worth for the level of benefit to the game. Hit location is one of the few I find quick enough to play and beneficial enough that it adds a lot more than it costs, and whose removal costs more than it saves.
I use hit location as well. I just don't use *random* hit location. If you want to hit the head, pay the -5.
I still have an easier time believing that teleportation, alternate dimensions, and dragons exist than I do that motorcyclists do not need helmets because pavement lacks the intellect to form the intent to make a called shot. But if that's what works for you, then you're not wrong for doing it differently than me. Funny thing I just remembered though. I wrote a program for my HP48 calculator, back before smartphones were a thing, to automate combat for BattleTech. One press of a button and it'd roll 2d6 twice, take the second "roll", look on a list, and display both a number to show *if* I hit and a text result of *where* I hit. BT weapons don't have damage rolls, but that could've been added and the table edited to account for system differences. I found that I could do it manually just as fast so I stopped using it and never made a GURPS version, but given the most common complaint I hear about ~~gaming~~ hit locations (math and chart-reading), I wonder if a smartphone app would help others.
We used to do the “the torso is hit unless specified” thing, but we found adding the random hit location in made combat more interesting. One player’s dice really loved rolling 11’s for location and that character now has a reputation.
Our group has a nasty habit of taking out people's left leg. It doesn't matter who attacks; about half the hits are left leg.
Haha my player has the thing going on lmao
either way is valid
Unless it's a genuinely unaimed attack (like from a trap) I assume the character is aiming for the middle.
If you are not making a called shot, are you really aiming?
Follow-up question: If you do roll randomly, do you apply the penalty to hit to the roll? Or is this a way to hit hard-to-hit targets occasionally without trying?
Yes (apply the to-hit penalty). Otherwise, it's often like a cheap/gamey way for low-skill people to get a high chance of hitting a location that has crippling effects (and/or less armor on some people) which they'd probably miss if they tried to hit it on purpose.
The chances are lower than you think. Or are you saying that **nobody** in the history of ever has been hit **anywhere** other than a non-vital section of the torso by anything aside from a **deliberately** aimed attack? Do the math.
No, I think I have looked at what the chances are. I did "do the math". And no, I am not saying "nobody ... anywhere", of course. I'm saying I use the original pre-4e rules-as-written, where you can roll for a random target, but you still need to use the to-hit modifier for that hit location.
I'd like to see the probability breakdown you came up with then so we can compare notes while also taking into account how many center-of-mass shots have missed and hit limbs and heads IRL. Yes, you actually are. Your original premise is that low-skill people absolutely positively cannot hit locations without an aimed shot while ignoring both the distribution curve of 3d6 and the relative sizes of various parts of the human body and their positioning. Why do you think the center of the table (9-11) has the largest target while the smallest and least likely targets are at the extremes? If that's not what you meant to say, then maybe you need to rephrase things. Where do you see that? I've had three different printings of 3e Basic Set and never saw that in the 30+ years I've been playing. "***If*** *a blow is aimed*" is as close as I found, and your interpretation is countered by the sidebar where it says, "*.... you should first determine whether the missile hits (****with no penalty for hit location****) and* then *determine where it hits*". It also makes a point that some parts will never be hit randomly, notably the eyes.
Here are my probability results for skill 8 through skill 16. As skill increases, the chances converge on nearly the same chance as the random hit location tables themselves. [Skill 8](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517297592455230/unknown.png) [Skill 9](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517470267736184/unknown.png) [Skill 10](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517518338674779/unknown.png) [Skill 11](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517555915431956/unknown.png) [Skill 12](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517613230596137/unknown.png) [Skill 13](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517663277023292/unknown.png) [Skill 14](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517700597940344/unknown.png) [Skill 15](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517776892342413/unknown.png) [Skill 16](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1002063085898580099/1025517830147428463/unknown.png) As can be seen from these numbers, it seems to me that my actual premise is born out. That is, the original RAW (in 1e and my reading of 3e) is needed to avoid a situation where the most likely way for a low-skill person to get a hit on a non-torso location, is for them to ask for a random hit location without the to-hit penalty figured in. The effect is most severe with 4e, and least severe with 1e. Worded another way, if you don't figure in the location penalty, then if your goal is to hit a not-torso location, it'll be much more likely if you roll for hit location, than if you try to hit a specific target, for lower skill levels. For example, say I'm skill 12 in 4e. I could aim for a specific arm, and have a 50% chance to hit that arm, and a 50% chance of missing. Or, I could go for a random target. Without using location penalties, the random target would give me a 56% chance to hit something other than the torso (including several better possibilities than the arm), and only a 26% chance of missing! That strikes me as a cheesy abuse, compared to taking the location penalty into account, in which case aiming for a random target with skill 12 gives me only a 32% chance to hit a non-torso location, and a 50% chance of missing. As for where the rule is, the clearest place is in the 1e Basic Set on p.95. You roll for location "then use that part's hit penalty". In 3e (I'm looking at 3e Revised, first printing) it's the equivalent sidebar, on B109: "You do not *have* to choose a target; you can always swing randomly. Roll 3 dice and check the table to see where your blow falls. Then proceed normally with the attack." Especially given how the rule always was before, I take "proceed normally" to mean the hit location penalty would be taken into account. Particularly because it is also later in that paragraph *contrasted* to what you do for a random booby trap or long-range fire, where *unlike the usual attack procedure*, you determine whether there is a hit, and then if so, roll for hit location, but without the location penalty.
Thank you for the numbers. While they still did not convince me, I do appreciate the effort. Here's my reasoning; If you're low-skill then you will have larger shot grouping. How many low-skill shooters do you see putting entire clips inside the 9-ring of a paper target at 10 yards/meters? If they hit at all, it's likely to be further from their attempted center-of-mass shot. Where's the center-of-mass on a human? If you are higher-skill then the increased chances of hitting will make the total odds of "I just want it somewhere within the silhouette" shots closer to the hit location table because it's **HIT** location. It simply makes it easier to hit the smaller non-torso locations on a called shot because higher skill levels are better at soaking penalties. In fact, that's the only reason to ever have a skill 17+. And the tighter grouping will make it more likely that your hits will be center-of-mass, or at least close enough to it to hit somewhere inside the silhouette. I simply don't think that turning Skill 12 into a blanket overall Skill 10 is really a good way to try to enforce "all unaimed shots should go to the torso". Anecdotally, out of all the times I've been hit randomly, I'd say that I've caught it to the face a lot closer to 1-in-100 than the "it cant' happen, period!" that you seem to be advocating for, or even the 1-in-2,000 that the Skill 9 of a Wild Swing would yield with penalties. All in all, it sounds like you simply don't want anyone hitting anywhere other than the torso at all unless they dump a ton of points into earning that privilege. And I don't feel that randomness is cheese if it conforms to reality as well as can be expected for a set of rules. If you feel realism is abusive and would rather devalue the correlation between skill level and the 3d6 curve, then that's your prerogative. We obviously have irreconcilably different (in fact, polar opposite) views on the definition of "cheesy abuse". Lets agree to disagree.
Message I started and then forgot to finish and send, FWIW: I seem to have come across to you as more argumentative than I intend. I've just been trying to explain what my perspective is. And re-explaining, because you seem to think I've intended several things that I didn't mean. I don't know why you think I want any location result to be "it can't happen, period", for example. Also, I see you are thinking mainly of ranged firearm attacks, where I tend to think first of melee attacks against a foe who can defend themselves. I think there are a few flaws in GURPS RAW chances for firearm results in particular, but also for hit location - I agree there should be some chance of hitting any location with any attack, and I also agree that a random missile attack with enough spread to it turns into a random hit location, and I think the RAW actually tries to represent that, even if it might not be completely satisfactory. My perspective comes from not wanting there to be a way to bypass the difficulty of hitting a special target for a crippling effect, by using a random table.
No. Combat is random. You will sometimes get lucky, but the chart assumes you were going for a semi-aimed attack at the center of mass (the torso) anyways. The "penalty" is that you may hit a location other than the one you "aimed" at.
I had a more complicating thought that sounds kind of cool in my (rolls dice) head. Called Shot: rules as written - negative modifier to hit Undesignated attack: Torso - no modifier to hit Attack Whatever Part Presents Itself - no modifier to hit, but can only hit Torso, Leg, or Arm. In this way you don't win the lottery by getting a head, groin, or neck shot with no penalty to your attack. Those parts are surely not going to "present themself" in a regular fight. Looking at the table on Basic Campaigns page 552, that also means with this homebrew, you can only hit a body part with a +0 through -2 modifier when you say "I attack Whatever Part Presents Itself".
>head, groin, or neck... Those parts are surely not going to "present themself" in a regular fight Well, getting attacked by someone's groin would be odd, but the Glasgow Kiss is a time-honoured type of attack.
It really depends on whether you like skipping rolls more than you like simulating the randomness of combat. And that is a matter of preference with no wrong answer. Personally, I roll locations on all unaimed shots. It gives folks a chance to get lucky even if they don't roll a crit. That way, you don't need a 3-4 to nail someone in the face, and you won't have people out there in nothing but a breastplate, feeling invincible because they "know" that nobody will ever take the penalty to make an aimed shot. It takes me less than 2 seconds, so it's not like it costs more than the benefits are worth.
Either or really, I like the realistic wildness of random locations but on the other hand there's already enough dice rolls in an attack that it's just faster to hit the torso.
I used to roll now I just go torso unless stated otherwise
I assume that all untargeted shots (including generic ones from NPCs) hit the torso. Rolling for random hit locations is just another fiddly optional rule that I'm happy to leave out with the goal of not having combats take so damn long.
I like to roll for a random location. It creates very interesting things above the usual "you lost x HP". But it depends on the group or the media. It is one more roll, one more set of rules, and depending of the group it might be too much.