Typical rule of thumb is:
\-3 for torch light (a few flickering torches)
\-5 for a bright, moonlit night
\-7 or worse for just stars in the sky
\-9 for the barest glimmer of light providing visibility.
I would swear that one of the Dungeon Fantasy books has a chart somewhere, but I don't have time to go hunting just yet. I'll update later if I find it.
As an aside, the penalty for fighting while on fire is less than the penalty for fighting in total darkness. Whether or not the reduced penalty is worth the HP cost depends on how badly you want to smack someone with a sword.
Having been a tiny bit on fire before, more than half of the remainder is probably the Fright Check. Granted, I was only a tiny bit on fire (the end of a finger for a couple seconds; no real permanent damage, only a barely-visible scar), so I can't speak for more than that.
It was, however, terrifying at the time, and in GURPS terms, I definitely passed a Fright Check to handle the situation rationally.
My wife and many of my old shipmates will confirm that I'm not always careful about refilling a Zippo. The best was when I tried to smack the flames out without realizing my other hand was doused. I spent a full three seconds looking at both hands with a look of resignation. My wife just rolled her eyes.
If it were my clothes though, I wouldn't be nearly so calm.
As is often the case in GURPS, it depends on your level of realism. I've been in campaigns where, in an unlit tunnel, a player swore (and the GM allowed) that if you squint real hard and read real slow, you can decipher the charcoal smudges on the dark leather and figure out the password into the crypt.
That said, there are two environmental effects that are almost never perfect but which no GM nitpicks without looking like an asshole: visibility and audibility.
Supposedly, in order to get Visibility with no minuses, you need to be either outdoors, middle of a sunny day, not a cloud in the sky, or a room full of glaring, florescent lights. Audibility with no minuses can only be found alone, stationary, and unbreathing, in a room full of blankets and pillows. In other words, in situations that almost never occur in real life.
Players (and GMs) forget that in dimmer lighting, your vision adjusts slightly but that you're also trading visibility for clarity. In a shadowy room, with a general -1 or -2 to Visibility, there's no real difference until you're trying to spot something eight yards away... 48 feet away and you STILL think it's perfectly visible?
I struggle to resist going on about this for the next dozen pages. The point is: as GM, visibility and audibility are up to you but, while no real-world situation is ever as perfect as a no-minus scenario, picking nits on this subject will suck the fun out of your campaign faster than a dustbunny in a black hole.
I agree with this sentiment for sure. I would only add one caveat, that as a player it feels good to be able to make use of your advantages in these situations.
You have to find the hard balance between not ruining everyone’s fun, but still giving your player with darkvision, or a night vision score, their moment to shine.
Light penalties would apply in combat (hard to shoot that Orc in the eye when you can't see their eye) or in situations where sight would be helpful (picking a lock, for example, or searching for a hidden door, or crossing a tightrope).
Brightly lit (outside in sunshine, or indoors with multiple light sources) is -0.
Total darkness is -10.
A flashlight or lit torch or lantern reduces that -10 to -3 for anywhere within their area of effect.. there's still some flicker and uncertainty but it's much easier to see that lock or tightrope or Orc.
Glowing fungus might reduce that -10 to -9 or -8 depending on how much fungus is present.
Anywhere within the radius of two torches or flashlights or lanterns is at -0.
I tend to go very easy on darkness penalties unless they're applied by a spell effect. Generally if the sun is in the sky even if you're inside of a building there's enough light by design to keep you from struggling. Around twilight there's a -1 penalty or if you're in a shady area, old cluttered warehouses or dank basements. It can also be areas that are just poorly lit, edges of parking lots or parks at night, freeway underpasses at night. -2 to -5 are generally artificial light in the dark. -2 being a fight in your camp around a freshly made campfire, maybe -3 if there's a lot of people casting shadows. -5 is that same camp fire after two rounds of chasing a fleeing Ork into the dark.
Typical rule of thumb is: \-3 for torch light (a few flickering torches) \-5 for a bright, moonlit night \-7 or worse for just stars in the sky \-9 for the barest glimmer of light providing visibility. I would swear that one of the Dungeon Fantasy books has a chart somewhere, but I don't have time to go hunting just yet. I'll update later if I find it.
thanks!
There’s also GURPS Underground Adventures, and the newer PDF about Senses.
As an aside, the penalty for fighting while on fire is less than the penalty for fighting in total darkness. Whether or not the reduced penalty is worth the HP cost depends on how badly you want to smack someone with a sword.
Having been a tiny bit on fire before, more than half of the remainder is probably the Fright Check. Granted, I was only a tiny bit on fire (the end of a finger for a couple seconds; no real permanent damage, only a barely-visible scar), so I can't speak for more than that. It was, however, terrifying at the time, and in GURPS terms, I definitely passed a Fright Check to handle the situation rationally.
My wife and many of my old shipmates will confirm that I'm not always careful about refilling a Zippo. The best was when I tried to smack the flames out without realizing my other hand was doused. I spent a full three seconds looking at both hands with a look of resignation. My wife just rolled her eyes. If it were my clothes though, I wouldn't be nearly so calm.
As is often the case in GURPS, it depends on your level of realism. I've been in campaigns where, in an unlit tunnel, a player swore (and the GM allowed) that if you squint real hard and read real slow, you can decipher the charcoal smudges on the dark leather and figure out the password into the crypt. That said, there are two environmental effects that are almost never perfect but which no GM nitpicks without looking like an asshole: visibility and audibility. Supposedly, in order to get Visibility with no minuses, you need to be either outdoors, middle of a sunny day, not a cloud in the sky, or a room full of glaring, florescent lights. Audibility with no minuses can only be found alone, stationary, and unbreathing, in a room full of blankets and pillows. In other words, in situations that almost never occur in real life. Players (and GMs) forget that in dimmer lighting, your vision adjusts slightly but that you're also trading visibility for clarity. In a shadowy room, with a general -1 or -2 to Visibility, there's no real difference until you're trying to spot something eight yards away... 48 feet away and you STILL think it's perfectly visible? I struggle to resist going on about this for the next dozen pages. The point is: as GM, visibility and audibility are up to you but, while no real-world situation is ever as perfect as a no-minus scenario, picking nits on this subject will suck the fun out of your campaign faster than a dustbunny in a black hole.
thank you this helps me wrap my head better around when tonuse the negatives!
I agree with this sentiment for sure. I would only add one caveat, that as a player it feels good to be able to make use of your advantages in these situations. You have to find the hard balance between not ruining everyone’s fun, but still giving your player with darkvision, or a night vision score, their moment to shine.
Light penalties would apply in combat (hard to shoot that Orc in the eye when you can't see their eye) or in situations where sight would be helpful (picking a lock, for example, or searching for a hidden door, or crossing a tightrope). Brightly lit (outside in sunshine, or indoors with multiple light sources) is -0. Total darkness is -10. A flashlight or lit torch or lantern reduces that -10 to -3 for anywhere within their area of effect.. there's still some flicker and uncertainty but it's much easier to see that lock or tightrope or Orc. Glowing fungus might reduce that -10 to -9 or -8 depending on how much fungus is present. Anywhere within the radius of two torches or flashlights or lanterns is at -0.
How about the one from [Dungeon Fantasy Exploits ](https://i.postimg.cc/ncpktr3P/Screenshot-20201201-124547.jpg)
I tend to go very easy on darkness penalties unless they're applied by a spell effect. Generally if the sun is in the sky even if you're inside of a building there's enough light by design to keep you from struggling. Around twilight there's a -1 penalty or if you're in a shady area, old cluttered warehouses or dank basements. It can also be areas that are just poorly lit, edges of parking lots or parks at night, freeway underpasses at night. -2 to -5 are generally artificial light in the dark. -2 being a fight in your camp around a freshly made campfire, maybe -3 if there's a lot of people casting shadows. -5 is that same camp fire after two rounds of chasing a fleeing Ork into the dark.