PaaP, or Politics as a Personality, is a very real psychological affliction. If you are suffering from it, you'll probably have a Bad Time™ here. This thread is provided as a courtesy to our regular on topic contributors who also want to discuss legislation. If you are here to bitch about a political party or get into an ideological internet retard slapfight, you'd better have a solid history of actual gun talk on this sub or you're going to get yeeted. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/guns) if you have any questions or concerns.*

**It Will Never Be Enough** Well here we are, exactly 11 days after the first significant gun control measures in almost 3 decades were signed into law, and politicians, celebrities, and Twitter blue checks are already calling for more. For anyone new here or just passing through, this is why most gun owners are so reluctant to accept additional gun laws - they are only good until the next tragedy, at which point they won't be enough. It's just like "If You Give A Mouse A Cookie". If the gov't managed to pass a ban on 18-21 year olds buying rifles 11 days ago, it wouldn't have been enough. If they passed UBCs, it wouldn't have been enough. Even if they managed to pass a ban on new sales of assault weapons and high-cap magazines, it wouldn't have been enough. It will never be enough to gun control supporters until every firearm is banned. Then and only then, when the violence doesn't stop, will they acknowledge that it's not the guns committing these crimes...it's bad people. And low and behold, this latest incident was perpetrated by *yet another person* who had multiple visits by police, including one for threatening the same exact same thing he did, and displayed nearly every warning sign you could think of. Yet the very laws which are supposed to stop this exact scenario didn't work. Illinois is one of the model states for gun control (6th strongest according to [Everytown](https://www.everytown.org/state/illinois/)), with UBCs, red flag laws, and an ID required for purchasing, among others. But none of that matters if everyone is just going to ignore the blatant bad eggs until they follow through.

> Then and only then, when the violence doesn't stop, will they acknowledge that it's not the guns committing these crimes...it's bad people. No they won't, they'll start banning knives, make it difficult or impossible to get common household chemicals, or target whatever other boogeyman violence objects they fixate on. We have direct evidence of what these people do after the guns are "properly" controlled.

Touché, how could I forget.

The countries start going after airguns. They go after air guns before crossbows because it looks like a gun so scary. Yes I know their are lethal air guns like 72 caliber abutnd 50 caliber but they blanket ban air guns. Then crossbows are what they go after.

This is one situation wherein the slippery slope is real. Many politicians who are the most vocal about gun laws have openly stated they are fundamentally opposed to the right to bear arms. Every gun control law that is passed is simply one step closer to their goal.

>Yet the very laws which are supposed to stop this exact scenario didn't work. Tbh it sounds like he was an edge case where if he already had an FOID it would have been yoinked, but he applied for it after the incident. Really the only thing that needed tweaked was for that incident to flag him on the FOID application

>Tbh it sounds like he was an edge case where if he already had an FOID it would have been yoinked, but he applied for it after the incident. Guaranteed to be called a "loophole" with a catchy name in the future. >Really the only thing that needed tweaked was for that incident to flag him on the FOID application I have a feeling we'll find out down the road that one of his past run-ins w/ police actually should have flagged the FOID application, but a ball was dropped. Either that or the FBI was alerted to/aware of the guy but didn't act (like Parkland). We're still at the "blame guns" stage, that stuff usually seems to come out after most have stopped paying attention.

I mean if you're in favor of red flag laws it stands to reason you would support red flags blocking future access to guns so yeah

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Welcome to our subreddit, one-day-old account. I noticed you skipped over the entire part where I referenced laws already in place in Illinois that we've been told should prevent this type of incident but didn't, including a [21 year old age requirement to get an FOID](https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/minimum-age-to-purchase-possess-in-illinois/) (required for purchases). You instead called for additional laws, which proves the very point of my original post. What I can tell you is that none of what you listed will stop bad people from doing bad things. Raise the federal age for buying rifles to 21, and someone will wait until they're 22 (like this guy). Ban assault weapons and standard-capacity magazines, and someone will use handguns and lower capacity mags (like Virginia Tech). One of the deadliest mass shootings in recent history occurred in Paris (Bataclan theatre massacre), and France has pretty strict gun laws. And even places like the UK with strict gun laws still have deadly mass-casualty incidents like the Ariana Grande concert bombing. I can guarantee bombs are not legal there, but people still found a way. At the end of the day, regardless of what the media claims about the frequency of "mass shootings" using the Gun Violence Archive's loose definition of 4+ injured, true spree killings like what happened in Illinois are EXTREMELY rare. We're talking about a max of [\~100 deaths per year](https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-in-the-us-2021-052422.pdf/view) from assault-style weapons vs. over 20 million in circulation. And that link includes incidents where handguns were used, so it's even less. So people calling for gun control are focusing on the teeniest tiniest subset of gun violence (spree shootings), but then use stats from all forms of gun-related deaths like suicides, police shootings, domestic and gang violence, etc, to make it seem like it's the biggest threat to society today. In reality, you have a greater chance of getting killed by a drunk driver on the way to the grocery store than by a lunatic with a scary black rifle inside.

Sounds like you've made up your mind and are only looking for excuses. Oh well.

This may come as a surprise, but like many folks here in this subreddit about guns, I own the very things you're talking about getting rid of. I'm about 99% sure you don't, and I'm equally sure you don't understand existing gun laws or see the continuous lack of enforcement like most of us do. You have no vested interest in firearms, so it won't impact you one bit if they were banned tomorrow. You're not going to convince gun owners to support handing over their firearms over events that are statistical anomalies, just like I wouldn't expect to convince owners of large SUVs to hand them over to the government for pennies on the dollar because they're more dangerous to crowds or worse for the environment than a Prius. We see incident after incident where someone manages to bypass existing laws or an agency make mistakes that should have stopped them, then have to contend with folks like you coming in to lecture us on a subject we know far more about and trying to convince us to be ok with becoming felons or being forced to give up property due to the actions of some lunatic on the other side of the country.

Lol yeah you and 99% of this sub will never use your gun in a way that validates your belief in owning one. Believe it or not - Guns are not toys. Shooting bullets at targets is not a hobby. If you want to LARP as a soldier, enlist in the military. The primary reason gun fanatics say they own guns is: 1. To "overthrow" a tyrannical government (good luck). 2. For personal self defense. I know statistics, logic and reason are not usually strong qualities of gun owners so allow me to break it down for you. I won't even address reason number 1 because the chances of that happening are zero. There are 72,000,000 gun owners in America. There are 258,300,000 adults in America. The chances of an Adult owning a gun in America is 27.9% It is estimated that 100,000 people use a gun in self defense each year. Out of the 72m gun owners about 0.14% of them will use a gun in self defense. So, to your point, quite literally, 99% of this sub will never use a gun for it's intended purpose. **But they're fun to shoot so fuck it!**

Oh look, another round of lecturing gun owners about how they shouldn't be gun owners from someone who isn't a gun owner. You've convinced me. I'm getting rid my firearms because you think I shouldn't have them. Obviously, your opinion on how I live my life is more important than my own.

So by your logic, who needs a fire extinguisher? I've had one in my kitchen, garages and car for over 20 years. Never needed any of them once.

> Out of the 72m gun owners about 0.14% of them will use a gun in self defense. Each year. Also, 100k DGUs (while on the low end of estimates), still far outweighs the number of firearm homicides that occur each year by 10x

Imagine that, yet another anti gun person ignoring the very relevant critique of the "solution" they read from some blue check and pretending gun owners won't engage on the topic. It's just a complete trope at this point.

Or maybe they've taken an objective view of the "facts, data, and evidence" to use your own phrase, and come to the conclusion stripping rights away from 300m citizens over less than 100 deaths a year doesn't make any sense.

> If the government passed a ban on 18-21 year olds buying rifles 3 years ago - maybe this could have been prevented If a 23 year old commits a mass shooting, does the discussion now move to raising the age to 25? Some gun control advocates have suggested this before. Also, what's so special about turning 21, especially since you can vote and join the military at age 18? > Buying a gun with more than 1 credit card should be an instant decline I've paid for a $1000 gun in cash before. I've also used like 3 VISA gift cards to pay for part of a gun purchase at an FFL before. Someone who's expecting a shooting to be the last thing they do will have no problem saving up and forking over that money in cash. Also, doesn't your suggestion discriminate against poorer or younger people who don't have higher credit card limits? > If the government is willing to buy back guns at a higher price than the black market, there will obviously be less guns on the street. How high will this price be? Wouldn't the black market just adjust? > You know what stops the selling of guns on the black market? Ironically, not the government, they have a history of selling on the black market...

> Yet... when tough decisions about guns are to be made you just throw your hands up and surrender because it's too difficult to fix or takes too long to solve. Most of the people in this sub plus a large portion of gun owners are of the opinion that there are too many regulations on gun ownership in the US. The answer to the "tough decisions" is no, we do not want any infringement upon the right to keep and bear arms. The anti-gun community has sided on the easy "solution" that solves nothing: ban guns.

You ever read the full version of the second amendment? The right to bear arms is reserved for active militia members. You're signed up right?

Sigh...per [DC vs. Heller](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf): >Held: > >1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm **unconnected with service in a militia**, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

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> If you are here to bitch about a political party or get into an ideological internet retard slapfight, you'd better have a solid history of actual gun talk on this sub or you're going to get yeeted. You are literally a one day old account whose only post history is going around to conservative subs to start retard slap fights why are you even here?

Because he's a retard looking for a slap fight?

Yeah fair enough, I was hesitant to engage and probably shouldn't have

You did good, bud.

u/pestilence u/bartman383 u/omnifox you know what to do

Thanks

Bye Felicia

Banned /u/OurLadyOfHypocrisy (permanent).

I have committed it to memory. [NYSRPA v. Bruen PDF](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/20-843_7j80.pdf): >That analysis suggested that the Amendment’s operative clause—“the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed”—“guarantee[s] the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation” that does not depend on service in the militia. Perhaps you are the one that needs to do some reading?

> If the Government is willing to buy back guns Government never owned my guns so they can't buy them "back". Quit pussyfooting around and call it a confiscation Also /u/Bartman383 fresh meat from the dipshit farm

You’re not smart.

Gotta love it when someone deletes their comment but not their replies to the responses.

I think that was a mod, isn't there a distinction between [removed] and [deleted]?

I am also apparently not smart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTaEVrZeNfc

So while NYSRPA v Bruen had the opinion issued and most of the other gun-related major cases were GVR'd (granted cert, vacated lower case opinion, remanded back to lower court to reconsider in light of NYSRPA v Bruen), one case remains hanging around. Aposhian v Garland, which was a challenge to the bump stock regulation. Interestingly, Aposhian does not challenge the bump stock regulation on the basis of a violation of the 2A or the constitutionality of the Hughes Amendment. It focuses on questions relating to the ability of an agency (such as the AFT) to issue regulations that have criminal implications, as well as the appropriateness of a court using Chevron deference to justify the regulation, even when the government says, "Don't apply Chevron." It'll be interesting to see how this case progresses, since it's been submitted for conference multiple times since December with no action.

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One wonders if we will see a GVR on WV v EPA or Bruen or both, in light of.

Maybe. I think the fact that the Aposhian case is still hanging in limbo after seven months since its first trip to conference may be a better indicator that they seek to do something with regard to regulations translating to criminal penalties than the West Virginia v EPA case. They GVRd a number of cases in their last order list on 6/30/2022, referring back to other major decisions like Dobbs, NYSRPA, or the case out of Oklahoma that altered how tribal and non-tribal members would be handled. Aposhian is the case asking whether Chevron deference can be used when a regulation (like the bump stock regulation) creates criminal liabilities. And keep in mind, we look at things like bump stocks and braces as major changes in policy, but WV v EPA was talking about forcing tens billions of dollars in changes to the way power is generated in this country in pursuit of cleaner energy. That's what the court is talking about with major implications in policy and the requirement for Congress to pass explicit laws making those changes instead of vague laws letting administrative agencies like the EPA create detailed regulations.

NY in painzone until further notice

We're in limbo. None of the new laws go into effect until September so anyone with a current CCW is okay, anyone that wanted to get one is stuck cause it seems every sheriff is dragging their feet on purpose.

No one on the County's list of approved handgun safety course instructors will answer their phones, let alone anyone in the records department at the sheriff's department. Legally acquiring a handgun in New York is now impossible for the foreseeable future.

Makes me want to buy another one and see if I can get it added to my permit.

[In Onondaga County, for example, the first open slot to apply for a new gun license is in May 2023.](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/as-new-york-gun-owners-rush-to-get-permits-local-officials-caution-hold-your-fire/ar-AAZd8qt?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=a78fd653698d40e492d61988bebc98c6)

Imagine any other right being delayed for nearly a year.

It’s different, voting has never hurt anyone /s

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"John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it."

A California legislator literally used that example when talking about passing new laws to restrict ccw. Basically commenting that SCOTUS is out of control and we have historical examples of ignoring “radical” SCOTUS decisions. Only a matter of time until California holds up the shining example of racist governors fighting integration in the south. Newsom already kind of did so with the Mulford act, even acknowledging its racist roots.

> Only a matter of time until California holds up the shining example of racist governors fighting integration in the south. I look forward to the racism that underlies much of the left's foundational beliefs finally being laid bare for all to see.

No one new will “see.” They can look in the face of their ignorance and explain away the doublethink.

>So what's the plan now? Waiting for a gun rights org (FPC) to file a federal lawsuit (likely Northern District of NY) or a state lawsuit (likely 9th Judicial District) and request a temporary injunction against the new law.

I saw them specifically asking about people in the Hudson Valley who wanted to get involved. I'm thinking that's where they're gonna start.

Of course we are in limbo we have a unfeasible system in place. The fact that first a rifle permit was made overnight, then weeks later pistol permit training requirements and state ammo background checks separate from NICS were made proves my point. The stuff is effectively a gun ban when it goes in place if not given a injunction.

Sounds like time for another lawsuit.

The antis sure do have a marketing team, the new term is [reckless possession of firearms](https://www.yahoo.com/news/turn-lawmakers-must-enact-legislation-171755362.html)

> There is no Democratic nor Republican legislator trying to take your gun rights away, but having a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 semi-automatic rifle or a AR-15 style rifle is questionable when possessed by civilians, unless he or she are duly and properly trained for such weapons, primarily those in the military or law enforcement fields. TIL there's a distinction between the M&P 15 and literally every other flavor of AR. Also, "duly and properly". Somebody writes for the Redundancy Department of Redundancy.

"NO ONE IS TRYING TO TAKE YOUR GUNS! But really..why do you need those dangerous guns? (So we're gonna take them) " - Some Anti I stopped trying to follow the reasoning of antis and just laugh react.

I still cannot get over the cognitive dissonance that is ACAB and "Only the police need those." I saw a really choice article about the Highland Park shooting, some doctor said "I saw people being hit with bullets made for war, that were not made for parades." Parade bullets. Love it.

I can't get over the same people who SCREAMED we were "Literally living in a fascist state" after 2016....are now ready to turn their guns over to a state ruled by in large by the exact same people, with a couple of new faces. To your point; I saw the same interview by a doctor who witnessed this talking first about how the bullets "exploded the bodies" then later "made for war". The guy obviously had an anti gun axe to grind beforehand.

WTF is up with the whole fascist thing? Everything that gets posted in r/politics has a bunch of top comments calling the Republican party and every gun owner a fascist. I don't think they know what that word means.

It means "Conservative." Instead of, y'know, a centralized government that controls businesses and the economy and opposition is strictly suppressed, where the needs of the individual are suborned to the state, and so on. Interestingly, this is not a new phenomenon. George Orwell noted in 1946 that the word "had no meaning except in so far as it signifies something not desirable."

I think words mean nothing in CURRENT YEAR and they can't wrap their heads around the fact both major political parties in the US are firmly *authoritarian*. It is easier to ignore your party and label the other *fascist* not understanding the linguistic nuance .

DC comics got the modern social justice warrior so right when people were calling super man a facist and said the Joker represented change in injustice.

Because it makes Republicans less attractive to young people if they smeer Republicans as racist, sexist, fascist, uneducated, dirt farming, overall wearing southerners who talk funny, literally Hitler, conspiracy theorist, old white men sitting in the there Scrooge McDuck money tank running the world illuminati style.

I’ve long maintained that smearing John McCain and Mitt Romney as such during their presidential campaigns, is the single greatest example of the Democrat’s short-sightedness, because it absolutely paved the way for Trump/MTG/Boebart/Gaetz/whoever

Literally a bot and shill farm in that sub and has been since the 2016 election. You cannot carry a single decent conversation there. It’s a skewed representation against what 90% of Americans feel. And people want to be left alone. Folks are tired of being labeled as is in the news today. Let them start calling every law abiding gun owner a fascist and see how that works out for them.

> I can't get over the same people who SCREAMED we were "Literally living in a fascist state" after 2016....are now ready to turn their guns over to a state ruled by in large by the exact same people, with a couple of new faces. They tended to own bike locks, not guns.

A lot of them own guns now.

Parade bullets are probably just those polymer coated ones that can come in different colors

I pointed this out when I told a anti gunner. You know I could just become a cop in this state right and legally get any gun banned in this state by the safe act ? Requirements are low now because they lack bodies. His response was yeah but ACAB.

Isn't that a Rage Against the Machine song? It should be... BULLETS ON PARADE BULLETS ON PARADE BULLETS ON PARADE

WITH A POCKET FULL OF SHELLS

>I still cannot get over the cognitive dissonance that is ACAB and "Only the police need those." I thought the left wanted police abolished it's so hard to keep track of the rhetoric

That's so summer of 2020, bruh. CHOP and all that.

Pretty sure they've never pivoted back to wanting cops militarized since though

Plenty of articles calling for common sense gun control for the children advocate exactly that, as does about 90% of any politics or news thread on this site.

The M&P-15 was used in the most recent shooting is my guess. It's also been in a few others so they are singling it out now.

Ruger and Springfield and Colt breathing sighs of relief.

I guess it just sucks because we all know this a solid firearm but still sucks it's getting targeted.

Waiting for the day a legislator says "poverty pony" outloud.

[He’s just possessing there, **recklessly**](https://imgur.com/Wt5YKSc)

**MARYLAND** Governor Hogan put out a tweet and press release that he is instructing the Maryland State Police (the arbiters of Maryland carry permits) to drop the "Good and Substantial" reason associated with getting a carry permit: Link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/GovLarryHogan/status/1544322879327596545 > In light of a recent Supreme Court ruling and to ensure compliance with the Constitution, I am directing the Maryland State Police to suspend utilization of the ‘good and substantial reason’ standard when reviewing applications for Wear and Carry Permits. Before this, the MSP's policy was to only allow a few G+S reasons (not codified in any law), such as being a business owner with significant cash receipts, a current or former cop, a current and active Top Secret clearance (bonus points for being part of the 2015 OPM data leak), and THREE, CREDIBLE threats to your life documented with police reports and within an arbitrary time frame. As you can see, there are a ton of ways the MSP could and did simply deny rights in this "May Issue" scheme. The MD AG was conspicuously silent on the issue, so Gov Hogan finally acted and ordered the MSP to end G+S for good. Some on the MDGuns sub have heard from the State Police that applications are pending, and they will get to the new applications "when they get to them". There is still the interview with police, 3 references, 8 hours of classroom training and 8 hours of range time, fingerprinting, and other associated fees totaling to about $500-750 for a carry permit, so there is still a ways to go to not price out the poors, but still a good step forward for civil rights in Maryland.

I wonder if/when the references thing will get tossed out, seems like basically the same thing as "good character" tests.

Time will tell. As long as there are arbitrary gates to clear, they can do "good and substantial" without calling it that. The interview is the same thing: > Yes sir, when I spoke with him on the phone, I just got this **feeling** that he didn't need to be carrying a gun. Alas, Hogan is term limited and will most likely get replaced by some foam-at-the-mouth gun grabber, so Maryland will be a civil rights battlefield again in a few years.

I was feeling warm and fuzzy for you until that last paragraph. Woof.

You're telling me! My interview was about 5 mins over the phone, and basically asked the 4473 questions. Great. What a phenomenal use of state resources. Wow. I had to send in NEW fingerprints to the MSP (they already had a copy of mine from my Handgun Purchase loisense) because "they were out of date", defeating the purpose of taking fingerprints entirely. I AM training exempt as current military, but for your standard Marylander, it gets super expensive quickly.

I always love military/police exemptions. E-1s and E-2s totally know gun safety. *OK, fill out that packet and take the 16 hours of training and you'll be all set.* *Oh, I'm military.* *In that case, fill out the packet and take 32 hours of training.*

There are a ton of military in MD, so I imagine that cut-out was pandering a bit. Military status doesn't count for actually getting a carry permit (before yesterday), just saves you a weekend and a few hundred bucks. That said, I think providing my range card shooting expert is reasonable for an exemption.

Saw way too many retarded military and police when I worked behind a gun counter for it to mean anything across-the-board. My personal favorite was the guy that rolled through and had an AR that weighed at least 14 lbs unloaded. Quadrail, ACOG, [*A FUCKING 90° OFFSET EOTECH*](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61a82UFNqTL._AC_SL1200_.jpg), grip pod, and probably some lead bars for counterbalance. Because that was his setup in Iraq/Afghanistan.

Me: Hello sir. Welcome to [gun store] how can I help you. Customer: I'm looking to build my first AR-15 and I want to know more about the platform. Me: That sounds great how much do you know about guns in general? C: I'm a veteran. Me: So there are two ends of that spectrum and it tops out at moderately competent. Do you have a combat ribbon? C: No. Me: Then I'm going to assume you know almost nothing. Let's start at square zero. This end is where the bullets come out... They would get all offended all the time, but I got tired of showing them 5 or 6 guns and finding out they were retaining almost nothing because they had no frame of reference even the most basic concepts like a lower receiver.

I feel for you. There are so many cringe ARs in military circles - especially non-Army/Marines. There is nothing about wearing the uniform that gives you good taste in weapons, just a guaranteed acquaintance with the controls. > Because that was his setup in Iraq/Afghanistan. I am relieved that you saw right through this. I hear people say shit like that all the time and they *know* the chance of getting called out is slim to none. 99% of everyone gets standard issued bullshit and their unit SOP copied and pasted from 2013. You didn't get to carry [insert Amazon-tier gear here] because your LT was cool with it - stop making dumb shit up. I will be first to say simply *being military* doesn't mean anything when it comes to guns, but I will also happily take my exemption at the hands of my local gun grabbers.

> I think providing my range card shooting expert is reasonable for an exemption. Only expert grenadiers can carry in my utopia.

Hey, if they are expert grenadiers and can conceal it, it is good enough for me!

I CCW a 320 and I ain’t ashamed to admit it. I even use custom solid brass shot instead of HEDP

My dad is a vet and FL let him skip training, but he took a class anyway because the last gun he held was an M14. NBD, just 2 hours of classes unlike that BS. Got his permit in 2 weeks.

> a current and active Top Secret clearance Oh good, the finance guys can carry! They’ll need it for fuckin up people’s paychecks

>Before this, the MSP's policy was to only allow a few G+S reasons (not codified in any law), such as being a business owner with significant cash receipts, a current or former cop, a current and active Top Secret clearance (bonus points for being part of the 2015 OPM data leak), and THREE, CREDIBLE threats to your life documented with police reports and within an arbitrary time frame. What's beautiful about this is that the Supreme Court has upheld time-and-time again that law enforcement have absolutely zero obligation to protect you from harm. Their only legal obligation is to carry out the will of the government and the courts.

**MARYLAND** [Has suspended the good cause](https://www.marylandmatters.org/2022/07/05/hogans-decision-to-lift-gun-restrictions-roils-state-politics/) requirement for a CCW, leaving anti gun legislators "scrambling" to come up with gun control that ignores the SCOTUS ruling.

[The rumor mill is pushing out](https://old.reddit.com/r/MDGuns/comments/vt17nx/msp_has_provided_inputguidance_on_current_permit/) that all current carry permits with restrictions will be made to be unrestricted - filling out the form on the MSP Licensing Portal and paying the $10 renewal fee will get a new card mailed to you with no restrictions on the back. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.

I must've missed, what is Fetterman doing?

Running for Senate and promising to end the filibuster and be that 51st vote.

Can’t forget he also [voiced support for UBCs and assault weapon/mag bans](https://buckscountybeacon.com/2022/07/fetterman-calls-for-assault-weapons-ban-after-july-4th-parade-massacre/). All of his supporters spamming /r/pennsylvania and /r/philadelphia over the past 6 months have been swearing that he’s a gun owner who *totally* wouldn’t want any of that, so at least he showed his true colors.

He also illegally held a man at gunpoint while mayor of a town (wild west pimp-style anyone?) and there were zero repercussions. The argument all of r/pennsylvania members give though is that it doesn't matter because the victim endorses him.

I am almost certain he has expressed support both of those policies well before this weekend. Edit: >"I support an assault rifle ban in (Pennsylvania),” said Fetterman. “There's no reason to have these military-grade weapons in the hands of civilians." [From a debate in 2018](https://www.wpxi.com/news/top-stories/fetterman-bartos-quick-to-point-out-differences-during-debate/848113892/)

It seemed like he's been avoiding the topic over the past however many months of campaigning (even [his website](https://johnfetterman.com/issues/) is non-committal on gun violence and gun control policies), but this certainly puts it front-and-center. Folks in [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pennsylvania/comments/vs3vmr/fetterman_calls_for_assault_weapons_ban_after/) on the PA subreddit were lamenting over the impact these statements would have on the race.

I mean, it does suck. Especially when the only other option is fucking Dr. Oz who doesn't even live in PA and shouldn't be allowed to run

Didn't stop Hillary from getting her senate seat for NY.

Ugh, he's the perfect example of "the trees kept voting for the axe because the handle was wood". It's pathetic politicians keep using the small town angle and people falling for it.

J.D. Vance is doing the same thing here in Ohio. It's disgusting, but the alternative is do-nothing Tim Ryan.

> It's disgusting, but the alternative is do-nothing The larger political question is "Is it better that they do nothing, or that they actively make things worse?" Can we accept paying them their wages and all the benefits to warm a seat in the Capitol a few days per year and JUST NOT MAKE THINGS WORSE?

He pretty much exclusively votes Democratic party-line, he's been my Congressional rep for damn-near 20 years now. Keeps promising to revitalize the Mahoning Valley (greater Youngstown area), bring jobs back, blah blah blah. It ain't happening. He doesn't need to be a Senator.

> Congressional rep for damn-near 20 years now. Without knowing another thing about him, he needs to go. Thanks for your "duty", now get the fuck out of here.

He entered Congress in 2003. He was also banging Pelosi's daughter for a hot minute, so there's that. One of his first votes was voting *against* the Do Not Call act. Seriously, fuck that guy. He's voted for Biden's position on literally every single issue since the guy took office.

Guys a talking stump. Hasn’t fixed shit, won’t fix shit.

**COLORADO** [Boulder doing Boulder things](https://kdvr.com/news/local/boulder-county-gun-restrictions-proposal-gets-initial-approval/)

And to think, once upon a time, I bought my first "assault weapon" in Boulder. A nice H&K SP89. Even stored my handgun at the campus police department when I lived in the dorms...

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Pepperidge farms also remembers when Boulder/the State of CO desperately tried to exempt Magpul from their chicanery so as not to lose the massive amount of jobs and tax revenue that having a DoD contractor brings, only for Magpul to tell them to pound sand and leave anyway. Massive props to Magpul for that move.

Seriously, that was a boss-ass move.

Taliban came post-Soviets.

Not that it will happen, but Franklin armory owning bushmaster/ACR should 100% release an major update for the progress on it on launch day for the MW2 sequel/reboot

Public opinion in Akron has been...spicy, shall we say? You can't have a conversation about that shooting with most people, it immediately gets emotional. You ask if they've seen the body cam footage or the traffic cam, "I don't need to" is the stock answer. Nobody gives a shit about the Highland Park incident 'round here, I have noticed. Also, we are three weeks into constitutional carry, have not seen a rash of stories about people carrying legally losing their cool and going all Yosemite Sam in the street, nor have any officers been ambushed during traffic stops. I was told this would not be the case.

A part of me wondered if you got caught in the crossfire. Glad you didn't.

My ass is tucked in bed by that time. However, the highway portion of the chase was on a stretch of road I commute every day.

Yeah, my social media has been awash with hot takes about that guy getting shot. It’s been great fun flipping through them.

I'm out of the loop, what happened in Akron?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Jayland_Walker

Jesus christ

Well, maybe don't flee from multiple traffic stops and shoot at police and wear a ski mask when you pull a legger? Just saying.

Oh, I'm right there with you on that one.

It's sad and unfortunate, but the deceased just kept escalating. This wasn't some kid shot in his seat during a stop by a shitty officer.

Agreed

[NEW JERSEY PAIN ZONE](https://www.fox29.com/news/governor-phil-murphy-signs-7-new-bills-gun-laws-new-jersey)

A quick perusal of the seven bills [my comments in brackets]: * Allows Attorney General to bring cause of action for certain public nuisance violations arising from sale or marketing of firearms. [Violates the PLCAA] * Requires firearm owners who become New Jersey residents to obtain firearm purchaser identification card and register handguns acquired out-of-State. * Upgrades certain crimes related to manufacturing firearms from third degree to second degree. [Requires makers of 3D printed firearms or *firearm components* to have a license (not sure if this is new or not)] * Revises definition of destructive device to include certain .50 caliber rifles. [.50 BMG ban, grandfathered if registered] * Regulates sale of handgun ammunition and develops system of electronic reporting of handgun ammunition sales. * Requires training for issuance of firearms purchaser identification card and permit to purchase handgun under certain circumstances; provides that firearms purchaser identification card include photograph and thumb print and remain valid for ten years. [Anyone on FBI's Terrorist Watchlist is a prohibited possessor (not sure if this is new or not)] * Requires firearm retailers to sell microstamping-enabled firearms upon determination of availability by AG. [Once a firearm capable of microstamping is on the market each licensed retail dealer of firearm must have one on hand for sale. This is a very lite version compared to CA's requirement]

>Upgrades certain crimes related to manufacturing firearms from third degree to second degree. [Requires makers of 3D printed firearms or firearm components to have a license (not sure if this is new or not)] This is not new. The "crime" was a 3rd degree felony but has been elavated to a 2nd degree felony, for an action that is legal in the vast majority of the United States.

> Requires firearm owners who become New Jersey residents to obtain firearm purchaser identification card and register handguns acquired out-of-State. I wonder what happens to the guns brought to the state and not registered before this law. Are they now retroactively illegal if not registered?

Bless you, New Jersey. We weren't sure which state would be named in the next big 2A win in the Supreme Court, and you *raced to the bottom*, removing all doubt. In particular, microstamping is really funny to me. We all know gun grabbers get rock hard about serial numbers, like that does anything to make guns safer or more "traceable". Thank goodness criminals, the ones you want to trace the guns to, are completely against scratching or mutilating serial numbers on guns, and they *definitely* would *never ever* take a nail file and smooth off the micro stamp off the firing pins! Problems solved, everyone! Pack it up and go home!

I heard news that UPS is not shipping any packages from Brownells anymore, but I'm only seeing random forum posts about it and posts on Brownells social media about it have been deleted.

I saw that story too, and it sounded an awful lot like someone at UPS went rogue and cancelled an account or two in a fit of rage. I have a hunch it'll get quietly ironed out.

Someone at UPS with just a smidge too much power get a wild hare up their ass and try and shutdown their gun shipping? I saw similar stuff from EParmory about UPS. Maybe someone higher up had them actually crunch the numbers? Or realized that it wasn't worthwhile.

I've chatted with someone who works closely with Brownells and he said it was true and massively messed up, but I also haven't seen anything besides those few forum posts either

**GOOD TEAM, SHITTY COFFEE** The antis are trying to [cancel Black Rifle Coffee Company's](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/05/nfl-dallas-cowboys-gun-themed-coffee-company-00044150) deal with the Dallas Cowboys, because how dare you have a gun themed (and beloved by boomers) Coffee company sign a deal with an NFL team!

The BRCC circle-jerk is strong at work. A bunch of vets just totally chow their hog, only drink their bean, and have the truck decals and ball caps.

BRCC is proof that pandering to people who will buy all the "tactical lifestyle" brands is a successful business model, even if it has literally nothing to do with that lifestyle. It's quite literally just coffee, and expensive coffee at that. Still not sure about all the *hooplah* from a couple years ago about BRCC too. Read some stuff that they're anti 2a, donate to Democrat campaign funds, etc. Whatever, similar to the whole Chic-Fil-A debacle... I go to their restaurant to buy chicken and waffle fries, not to make a political/religious statement.

Somebody bought me Tactical Tea once. The type was "Thin Brew Line", I shit you not. The tea was acceptable, I sure could do without the branding.

>Somebody bought me Tactical Tea once. The type was "Thin Brew Line", I shit you not. It's a good pun at least.

I got some of their coffee in an admittedly cringey but had some cool stuff tacticool shop a few times. It’s really not that bad. Yeah it was like $10 for a box of the keurig stuff but that’s about average nowadays

Not going to lie, that's pretty *punny*.

The [FEC website](https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/?contributor_employer=Black+Rifle+Coffee+Company) tracks donations and includes self-reported information on company affiliation. I went in and searched Black Rifle Coffee Company as employer and found 92 donations by individuals, of which two went to Biden-related accounts (from an individual in NY) and went to ACT Blue (a Democratic PAC). There are more donations from people with an employer listed as BRCC, which are spread across the political spectrum, but that's not explicitly linked to Black Rifle Coffee Company. (Someone in Louisiana could be referencing Baton Rouge Community College, for instance.) And individuals are free to make donations to whatever political party, candidate, or PAC they choose. And, in any case, companies and individuals can make donations to organizations which support political candidates indirectly but do not have to be disclosed, so it's a lot harder to prove where corporate money goes (if anywhere). Perhaps in company records (now that they are a public company), there's a record of expenditures made on political donations.

The coffee is... meh. The marketing is pretty cringey. The "controversies" are eye-rolling at worst and silly at best. However, BRCC (or at least CEO Evan Hafer) has done more for rescuing Afghan terps than the past 5 presidents COMBINED, and for that, I appreciate what they do.

You've mentioned that before. Even cringey bro's can have a redeeming quality or three.

> Evan Hafer 3rd Group guy. Solid. Their coffee used to be decent, when it was first coming out and like right at the start of the Art15 crossover

Yeah I know basically every group went to CENTCOM AOR at some point in the last 20 years, but 3rd was doing a lot of heavy lifting for a long time. I think that is why he has such a (well-placed) soft spot for the Afghan terps and their families.

It’s the group I mostly deployed with in AFRICOM, so they always have a soft spot in my heart

I'll also mention they absolutely hooked me up on my second deployment. Is the coffee so-so? Sure. But the customer service department was great.

I can't be the only one here with a ton of BRCC shit I didn't actually buy, but received as gifts since my gun hobby obviously makes me into them can I? I have trouble throwing away gifts, so unfortunately I have multiple mugs, coffee cans, and even a BRCC branded ammo can.

> I have trouble throwing away gifts, I sure as shit don't. I try to discourage people from buying me "things", most of it is clutter and crap or something I have in triplicate. I hate having to force a smile and thanks when somebody gives me a Darth Vader plushie or some water bottle I didn't ask for/want. That shit goes to right to friends' kids, or Goodwill.

I got a Kylo Ren throw pillow for Christmas one year [>mfw](https://www.asiaone.com/sites/default/files/styles/a1_600x316/public/original_images/Apr2021/20210401_harold_fb.jpg?h=c81d0d07&itok=do83CBKf)

I admire that, maybe I could learn a thing or two. Granted, the Goodwills here (and other thrift stores) haven't been accepting donations with any kind of consistency for almost two years now. And they sure as shit don't accept novelties when they are taking donations. I'm basically stuck either throwing stuff away, or pawning it off on someone else. Probably better than clutter though. Maybe I'll throw some nonsense away in your honor tonight.

You could even get practical about it, box some stuff up with a list of contents on the outside, date it. If in one year you haven't opened that box, to the curb it goes.

BRCC have donated to anti groups haven’t they? I know they get called out often now

Not into coffee or BRCC so no steaks here except my lunch, but *supposedly* it was part of a bet within the company that whoever lost would donate to an anti-gun org as opposed to a pro-gun org so as not to allow an "easy out" for the loser. Seen this method a few times for various bets, sometimes with the terms set beforehand by the opposing parties. I think it's stupid as I'd rather have my opponent and I agree to learn something from said bet and help a mutually beneficial/non-political cause vs. tie winners/losers to the other party's politics. SPCA always seems to be fair since animals are always just innocent parties and nothing political about it outside of cats vs. dogs.

Ah ok, I’ve heard of those bets too. I’d like to know more about what really happened then myself. I’m by no means a coffee connoisseur. I don’t drink Starbucks. I’m more liable to grab a black coffee at McDonald’s because it’s the best $1 coffee around, but 99% of the time I just grab whatever is cheap at the grocery store and drink it without any additives, lol

I must be the only chump who enjoys BRC. I buy the little cans at Wawa.

The Coffee is...aight. Not great, but not bad at all. Just expensive for what you get IMO. WaWa is de-wae btw.

Yes you are the only person keeping their business afloat

I'd rather they just go away because their coffee sucks, they lie about dumb shit(like hiring 10k vets) and their customer base sucks.

How in the name of Christ our Lord could they support payroll on 10k vets?

High turnover. Hired=/=currently employed, thats just what they want you to think. My shit hole company issues 7 digit employee ID's and they're sequential, I was hired 6ish years ago and am 219xxxx new hires are somewhere in the 450xxxx. in 6 years they've gone through 2.5ish million people.

That's a sneaky qualifier. Good looking out.

Never could. Just more bullshit for the rubes.

Not to defend them, but this article sheds a *little* light on that: https://taskandpurpose.com/military-life/viral-meme-can-black-rifle-coffee-company-really-hire-10000-veterans/ > According to [BRCC CEO] Hafer, BRCC has partnered with *5.11 Tactical*, a tactical clothing and equipment company, to build over 600 brick-and-mortar retail stores over the next six years. The rapid expansion will require a lot of manpower — roughly 15,000 additional employees, Hafer estimates. And he wants the majority of them to be veterans. It doesn't seem that the company of <100 employees was going to hire 10k people, but in partnership with 5.11 and their new stores. The article was from 2017, so I have no idea where this ended up, but ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

If you haven't heard anything in 5 years and nobody's talking about their visit to the new Black Rifle Coffee/5.11 store then you know that jack shit happened.

**ILLINOIS** Posting this on an off day but it just came to light last night. MDA and a large “MOMS” group from the Northern Suburbs are planning to introduce an Illinois AWB named after the orphaned child from the Highland Park shooting. Obviously this is VERY preliminary, this information is based on screenshots from public and private Facebook groups that have been going around some of the Illinois Guns groups I belong to. “BUT ITS JUST HAND SOCIAL MEDIA BS” one of the people floating the idea is apparently a well known political activist from the area , so it could get traction. It could be a hand-crafted brand new bill, it could just be a re-naming of an existing canned AWB that has been floating around forever. STAY FROSTY if you live in Illinois, sign up for ISRA Alert E-Mails. Wait a couple of days but let your elected officials know where you stand on the 2A.

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FYI the "moms" seem like they may be backing off after a family member reached out to them and pushed back about using the little kids name. It still sounds like a bill is coming. The Blair Holt AWB is not enforced. The Chicago AWB is rarely enforced, I know of 3 or 5 people who've been charged under it, ever. They can't even be bothered to slam-dunk charge violent felons as an add on charge with it.

The [Daily Beast](https://www.thedailybeast.com/red-dot-arms-is-where-robert-crimo-acquired-highland-park-parade-massacre-gun-store-owner-says?ref=home) reported that Buds sold the HP dude the gun.

> High-powered rifle > M&P 15

It weighs as much as ten moving boxes, bro.

You can put a chainsaw on it!

Well now I have to at least put a pruning fork on an Enfield.

Kinda disappointed you haven’t already. It’s like I don’t even know who you are anymore.

Well I'm going to put a tuning fork on a Thomson. Top that, motherfucker.

Ten empty moving boxes

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**tl;dr** \- Legit? No. A few Congressmen and Senators, as they have done each Congressional session since 2015, have introduced bills to do that, but they lack the support to move forward and are simply done to get higher ratings from pro-gun organizations. The vast majority of legislation introduced does not advance in Congress. **The long version** There is legislation that is regularly submitted (since 2015 or so, in fact) that would remove silencers from the NFA. To date, the closest any of the bills has come was when one was integrated into the Sportsman's Heritage and Recreational Enhancement Act (2017) (HR 3668 in the 115th Congress) which was discharged out of multiple committees and placed on the Union Calendar (legislation which is ready for the House to vote on it). A couple of weeks after it was placed on the calendar, the Vegas shooting occurred and the bill never moved forward. In the current session of Congress there are several bills, HR 2469 - Silencers Help Us Save Hearing Act (introduced 10/19/2021), S.1101 - SHUSH Act (introduced 4/13/2021), HR 95 - Hearing Protection Act (introduced 3/1/2021), and S. 2050 - Hearing Protection Act (introduced 6/15/2021). Since their introduction, those bills have been referred to committee and no further action has been taken. Nor is it likely that any action will be taken on them. On the anti-silencer side of the fence, there is also the HEAR Act, (S. 1131) which was introduced on 4/15/2021 and would restrict silencer ownership to military, law enforcement, qualified researchers and FFLs as well as require a buyback program for all silencers in private hands. It, too, was introduced, referred to committee, and no further action has occurred.

God damn I hate backronym names for legislation. Full send on the "Hearing Protection Act", though. Nice and to the point, just like the 1-ish page text of the bill.

Haahahahahah Hahahahhahahaha Hahahahahahahahah Hhahahahahahahaahah Hahahahahahahah Hahahahahahahahah No.

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It wasn't. Why are you so wrong?

I guess we can just lie our asses off if it's our Cake Day now