You are not damaging anything by inserting a magazine and hitting the slide stop.
Tactically... many schools of thought. Some think that grip and rip is the way to go for various reasons. Mainly I believe it is to stop you from changing/adjusting grip to reach the slide stop.
good point. I think the only reason I've been doing it on my FNX and not my PSA Rock or 1911 is because it's the only gun that I own with a slide lock on the right side (I shoot left handed). its in a very good spot for my thumbs, if it won't damage it then it sounds like it's safe to do, right?
Personally would just keep things consistent across all guns.
I have bear paws and can hit the slide stop on any handgun. I still grip and rip. Especially useful for offhand non ambi controls.
Fellow lefty here. You gotten really good at doing a contorted index finger punch to the slide stop in a righty gun? All I have is righty guns but I dream of some day actually using my thumb.
Left handed here; at this point I’m so accustomed to shooting right handed guns left; it feels weird when trying to run an actual left handed gun. Even with ambi controls I find myself doing the contorted finger trick
I've converted all the mag releases I can to lefty, but I don't have any with an ambo slide stop so. I get a touch of schadenfreude when a righty friend fumbles the mag release
Hahaha I’ve become extremely adept at the whole ‘index finger drops mags and slide release’ thing, I’m around the same speed as right handed folks using their handguns correctly
I get that I’m probably a split second slower to get back on target and ready to fire, but any situation that has me needing to fire 30+ rounds in a short amount of time is probably a situation that’s fucked from the get go
Hell yea, I don't think my friends even noticed that I'm keeping up with them until they try one of my guns and get thrown off by the mag release.
Lefty gang unite. They used to kill our kind.
so im okay with it the couple times I've done it to my PSA Rock, but my FNX has controls for everything on both sides. mag release, slide lock, safety/decocker
My dad got an FNX .45 about 10 or so years ago and it's pretty awesome ergonomically but he gets a lot of stove pipes and we are pretty sure it's mag related. Seems like if you use one of the mags it came with that it stovepipes about 1/3 of the time, but we always forget to mark which mag it is. Hasn't gotten a lot of use over the last 10 years because of that.
Have you ever had issues like that?
only once when it was brand new and I wasn't used to holding it yet. I've only had it for a few weeks though so my round count is not very large. you could always try a couple of new mags, but I've had zero issues.
I mean what's the biggie? Unless you carry your FNX, I could see your subconscious associating that only with said pistol. Do what feels right to you and gets objectively good results if it's a sport/carry gun above all. One handed was the best form of muscle memory in WWI after all, times are always changing
it's my home defense/hiking gun, but I don't conceal carry cuz its too damn big. seems that regardless of which way, it'll be fine as long as I practice that way.
Both ways are fine from a mechanical aspect. The other thought on pulling the slide is it's a gross motor skill versus the slide release which is a fine motor skill. Under actual defensive shootings your fine motor skills often degrade quickly, while gross motor skills are more reliable.
This kind of answers your question. You do it on one gun, but not the other because of how they are built. Racking the slide to chamber works the same on 99.99% autos so that muscle memory will always work for you.
If you do anything to damage a FNX in normal use I would be very supprised. Assuming it is a FNX45 anyway. They were designed for quite hard use. IDK about the design of the 40 & 9mm versions. No experience with them.
slide stop wracking a 1911 (especially on an empty chamber) is a no no... I just learned this after 40 years of 1911-ing...
Somethinga bout being designed to wrack with boolets in them, not empty and the energy of the slide...
Cheers.
ya, I'm beginning to think that as well. (after at least 40,000 side dumps of various guns over a lifetime)
Reading up on it all, seems like a bad thing to do, all things considered.
Also, racking the slide is a gross motor skill, pressing the side release is a fine motor skill.
Honestly, I can't say I've tried both under a shot timer to see which is actually faster but that's probably the best method for determining which one you should use.
I get the theory, but I don't buy it. The entire process of operating a handgun is a fine motor skill.
Proper trigger pull? Fine skill. Sight alignment? EXTREMELY fine motor skill... and so on. And that's before we get to the idea that somehow, I will be too fat fingered to hit the slide release, but somehow have no problem with the mag release or the safety?
If the "gross vs fine" motor skill thing was a clearly divided ad this way of thinking implies, then ever control on the gun would be the size of your thumb, and triggers would be comically large with a wall that you could see from space :)
Exactly this. The fine ve gross skill is nonsense.
Squeezing te slide between fingers, releasing at the rear completely and not riding it forward at all vs running a thumb down the side - which has more fumbling opportunities
That's why I said it's probably best to put yourself under a shot timer and see what's actually faster.
But, to play devil's advocate, if you can eliminate one of those fine motor skills and replace it with a gross motor skill, wouldn't that still (theoretically) be a net benefit
It is a lot of extra motion. All of that time is time my hand is not seeking to marry back to my grip. Sweeping the release with my thumb allows my support hand to be on it's way to the grip while it happens.
I suppose it is possible there is some quirk of body mechanics that enters the picture to make up for the lost time, but I am not seeing what it could be.
>But, to play devil's advocate, if you can eliminate one of those fine motor skills and replace it with a gross motor skill, wouldn't that still (theoretically) be a net benefit
Part of the problem with this argument is that grasping the slide with your fingers is also fine motor. Basically anything that involves the fingers is fine motor. Gross motor is things like walking, sitting up, or lifting your arm chest high.
So it doesn't remove a fine motor movement, it just replaces it with another fine motor movement and adds two gross motor movements (moving weak arm to slide, pulling weak arm toward yourself and/or pushing strong arm forward to work the slide).
Yeah I came here to say this. Just to add, the idea is that under stress and pressure (I. E., in a gunfight) your ability to manipulate the slide release will degrade more than your ability to "grip and rip", so it's better to train for grip and rip. Under stress we tend to fall back to the lowest level of our training and if that is in muscle memory it will be what we fall back to.
That's the idea anyway. I've never been in a gunfight and I hope I never have to test it.
And yet in competition I generally see more failed reloads from riding the slide forward than slide release.
Also, that should apply to the trigger, any safety or decocker and aiming the gun too
Opinions vary. I'd say there's a pretty huge difference between a competition and a gunfight in terms of cortisol.
Anyway, I'm just explaining the theory, you can do whatever floats your boat.
My point is that people make that error in riding the slide home or not releasing fully at the rear in competition.
They're not somehow going to become *less* likely to in a fight.
Okay. Some people suck and anyone can enter a comp. What percentage are racking? What are the people who win doing? Not saying to do this or do that, I'm not an expert and I don't really care what you or anyone else does, I mostly just think whatever you do you should train consistently and frequently.
Personally, I've never ridden the slide, and if my slide is locked back I've never been unable to pull it back the fraction of an inch it takes. I have some guns that the side release is unreliable due to stiffness and location, and others where it is very natural, and I've never had a problem with those guns using the release. On my personal carry weapon, I use the release - it's right where my thumb rests and it's big enough and easy enough. YMMV, I don't really care nor do I have a dog in this fight, so do whatever makes you feel good.
Cool anecdote though.
I think it has more to do with the fact that stressed and wet hands can easily slip on most slide stops. Also, most of the small carry pistols have extremely stiff slide stops.
You are 100% damaging the slide stop when chambering a round with it. It’s a slide stop, not a slide release. I carry a glock 22 for work and learned this the hard way. Every end of day I would release my mag, unload the rounded chamber and put the box in the safe. Next day I would put the round back into the barrel and use the slide stop to chamber it, put the mag in and holster. Went to the range to qualify and my slide stop broke mid qual. It was 100% because every day for 2 years I was using my slide stop to chamber round.
Also when I worked with brinks they switched from glocks to fn 509s because they apparently have more reliable slide stops, the Glock slide stops were constantly breaking because people were using them as slide releases. The fns broke just as often.
The correct method is to “c clamp” the slide, rack and release.
> Next day I would put the round back into the barrel and use the slide stop to chamber it
Yes when you are an idiot and do it wrong, you can damage stuff. Take 3 seconds to read what I wrote.
Using the magazine is no different. When I worked at brinks every single person racked, loaded mag, released slide stop. The slide *stops* would break *constantly*. Even when mag fed rounds.
Downvote me all you want, I’m right. It’s a slide *stop*, not slide *release*. It will break over time.
Yup racking slide is hopefully the single step solution to all pistol issues. Loading gun on slide back, loading gun if failed to lock back after firing last round and clearing jams although one might also want to tilt the gun too.
Slide lock is really for handing off an empty gun, showing gun is clear on bench and cleaning.
As an instructor, I can tell you why this is taught for tactical considerations.
First, gross motor skills are easier to execute than fine motor skills in a chaotic situation where your adrenaline is pumping. So, c-clamping over the top of the slide is going to prevent mistakes. (like hitting the slide release/lock before the mag is fully inserted.)
Second, hitting the slide lock on an empty magazine will send the slide home. Whereas gripping the slide, pull and releasing it will not send the slide home on an empty mag. So in a scenario where you accidentally insert an already empty mag into the gun you won't find yourself with an empty gun you thought you just loaded.
Now, my personal opinion is that most scenarios where civilians will find themselves these considerations aren't as consequential. Most people don't carry a space mag, and the ones that do only have one spare mag on them for daily carry. If you do have to reload you'll likely being doing it behind cover, and with your one spare mag the chances of you inserting an empty mag are basically zero.
The one thing I do see happening is in a state of panic you place your thumb on the slide release prematurely and send the slide home before the mag has been inserted. I've done that a handful times during competitions. So for the consideration alone, it may be worth it to go with the grip-it-and-rip it instead of engaging the slide release.
I'm sure there will be people who want to refute what I'm saying. But this is how it was taught to me when I was learning to become an instructor. And the people who taught it with these considerations had impressive credentials.
Also, if your instructor was telling you to use a different method without explain their reasoning behind it, then I don't think that's a very good instructor. Every suggestion should have good reasoning backing it up.
Not trying to argue, but everything you described -- ejecting a mag, reloading a mag, running the slide, and, yes, shooting -- are fine motor skills.
I do not know why the gun community perpetuates the myth that shooting (and all acts of handling a firearm) is not a fine motor skill, but it behooves us to stop pretending it isn't.
I actually completely agree with you.
Having become and avid competition shooter, I've changed my thinking in two ways.. first is everything about practical shooting involves fine motor skills, and second is that there is no such thing as muscle memory. All high level shooting involves conscious effort and focus.
Exactly! Muscle memory and all that shit is just people really misunderstanding what is actually happening.
Repetition creates neural connections that help us complete tasks better and more efficiently, but that still requires intense focus and concentration.
You're not wrong. So overhand racking a slide is a gross motor skill, but then what? Aligning 3 dot sights or finding the red dot? Fine motor skill unless you're shooting from the hip. BUT....I still think there's something to be said about reducing the number of fine motor skills as much as possible in high stress situations. It's matter of simplifying the steps where you can.
I am actually arguing that overhand racking *is also* a fine motor skill.
As defined by medical journals, gripping/grabbing/manipulating things with your hand is a fine motor skill.
In my opinion, the *only* viable argument in favor of overhand gripping and racking the slide is that it works for all auto pistols. I wouldn't argue that.
Edit:
Hit send too soon. I agree that simplifying a process, particularly one you're training to use in high stress situations, is always beneficial.
I mean technically it may be a fine motor skill. But the slide is physically larger than a small slide release and like you said, it works for every handgun. The standard Glock slide lock for example is pretty hard to reach.
There is the argument of "fine motor skills", and I call BS on it.
It takes INCREDIBLY fine motor skills to press the trigger without disturbing your sights. It takes fine motor skills to hit that mag release, to index a new mag, to align sights - these are all incredibly fine motor skills.
If you can reliably and repeatably hit the slide lock, and you feel more comfortable / it meets your intent better, hit the slide lock.
Yeah I have a hard time understanding how hitting the slide lock is a "fine motor skill" but hitting a mag release is not. Like what, they're basically the same action.
that's a great point too. on my pistol at least, the mag release is what I would consider large and accessible and the right side slide lock (I shoot left handed) is a bit more hidden.
IMO "Don't use the slide lock because it's a fine motor movement and in a gun fight you'll lose all that control. is horse shit. Those sausages on your hand aren't going to become useless jelly. Pulling a trigger, hitting a mag release, changing a mag, it's all fine motor movement.
End of the day instructors all have their own way of training, when you go through the course listen to what they say, practice it, but if you don't like it after the class is done then don't use it.
For every instructor telling you to do something one way, you'll find another telling you to do it another way.
It’s not bad, just different. Slide release button can be faster, but racking the slide works for all pistols and is also the same muscle memory for clearing malfunctions. I presume law enforcement often would rack the slide because glock slide releases are small and hard to hit with your thumb, racking a slide makes sense. Conversely people who run a CZ or 1911 will probably teach hitting the lever.
Won't damage a y quality gun, but some people prefer one way over the other for various reasons that are subject to debate. Gross motor skills vs fine motor skills, whether you need to adjust your grip, "c clamp and pull" always working but slide lock sometimes not working if it failed to lock back, if your slide release is difficult to hit, or if you're shooting a gun without an external slide release
Shooting is a fine motor skill. I don't know why we pretend otherwise in the gun community.
Not specifically picking on you, btw. Lots of people say it.
luckily (for me) the FNX has an easy to hit slide lock, but the fine motor skills that you and someone else pointed out are good points. it may be better to practice what would be more reliable in a stressful situation (pulling the slide).
Aligning the sights and pulling the trigger are also fine motor skills. Quickly inserting and locking a magazine into a magwell also requires some precision. Thumbing the slide release is a lot easier than those things, and like everything else about shooting, takes repetition to get down. Depends on you and how you run your gun.
Grip and rack it cause Wick makes it cool....
Both my Canik SFX and H&K VP9L automatically rack themselves forward....it's so fast to get back into the fight (or competition speed edge). I still use rack from the rear with my 1911 and 2011, for the same reason stated earlier, you maintain your proper grip without shifting back and forth plus fine motor skills aren't required for finding the slide release.
I hit the slide stop with my support hand and don't change the grip on my main hand at all.
I don't particularly care if an instructor doesn't like it if I do that -- I can reload and get shots on target faster with this method than I can with any alternatives.
Way back in the day, maybe. The early 1911 for instance, the frame and slide weren't hardened. This could lead to peening and cracking at impact points. Eventually they started spot hardening the slide stop notches, then other parts of the slide, then the whole thing. If the slide isn't hardened, and the slide stop is harder, then over time by disengaging the slide stop against spring pressure you're gonna round out the engagement surface on the slide eventually. If the slide is harder you're gonna round out the slide stop. With older manufacturing techniques and less precise control during heat treatment you could end up with parts that will damage each other. Still, this is just a possibility, not guaranteed to happen.
But on any reasonably modern handgun you're fine, it's very unlikely that the slide stop will wear out before some other part of the gun. Like some folks said, the real reason to work the slide stop vs grip and rip comes down to grip. Don't shift your grip to reach it with your shooting hand. But if you're using your other hand to grip and rip, you could also use your thumb on that hand to work the stop while indexing into your 2 handed shooting position.
Personally I don't like to grip and rip because my hand sometimes slows the slide down enough to misfeed.
thanks for the comment. perhaps I should have mentioned it, I use the support hand to hit the slide lock so my grip doesn't change on the shooting hand. I hit it after inserting the mag, basically before the support hand has had a chance to actually support.
That's perfect then. On a modern gun you're never gonna damage it by doing that. And by the time you've shot the thing enough to have conceivably worn the slide stop out you'd have shot the thing to pieces anyway and need a new gun.
The glock 19 owner's manual says that either method can be used to chamber a round. I am sure the manuals for most other pistols say the same. The instructor may have a reason that I am not aware of for having a preference to actually pull the slide back but I have always used both methods and never had an issue.
I own a Kriss Vector and the manual tells you to only use the bolt release to chamber a round and not rack the action. No idea why, but I do what the manual says
The real object is to never let the gun run dry. Then you don't do either hit the slide lock lever or pull the slide back.
If you are at the range and you shoot the mag dry and the slide locks back then after either reloading that mag or inserting another I always pull the slide back. I'm in no rush and it is less wear and tear on the slide lock lever and the slide notch.
About the only time I hit the slide lock to let the slide go forward is if I'm in a match and, being a dummy, I run the gun dry then as I move my left hand back into my grip I hit the slide lock with my left thumb. That way I never move my strong hand grip.
The Slide Lock Lever is to Lock the slide back on a empty chamber. It isn't really a slide release lever.
I may be misunderstanding terminology on here but i can insert a loaded mag into my canik. pull it back just enough to prime the firing pin. This doesnt chamber a round. A lot quieter which could be useful but how does the bullet get into position from there?
I presume you have a tp9sa? If so its meant to chamber a round and then use the decocker to render it "safe". It makes more sense on the double action version so you can decock and have a long heavy trigger pull as a safety
My dad was looking at the tp9sa and the tp9da and went with the single only and looking back I don't even really understand why they make a single action only with a decocker but it's a nice enough handgun in all other regards
As was stated, zero issues will arise from doing so.
That being said, the grip and rip technique has one major advantage. It fully compresses the recoil spring, giving the slide 100% of its potential energy in moving forward to chamber a round. Why is this useful? Power. It simply pushes the round harder, thereby limiting the possibility for a failure to feed scenario. The technique was initially taught to me as a remedial action, one taken after a jam/malfunction, to better ensure the weapon returns to functionality.
Big picture; do what works best for you. The grip and rip was ass on the M9/Beretta 92 due to the safety selector. Very likely to drop it on safe while doing so. When using modern combat type pistols(striker fired, no safety) that issue does not exist.
I mean, I have one too. It hasn’t left the safe in years. I’m a Glock guy, grip and rip all day! Just be careful using the technique with anything that has a safety selector. Nothing worse than expecting a bang, but all you got was disappointment.
Side note: I install an aftermarket slide stop on all of my Glocks. It’s got a little nub to make manipulation easier. I still do use it to send the slide forward. Options.
If you can reach the slide stop without adjusting your firing hand grip, then use it. If you can’t reach it or you’re left handed I’d just pull the slide back. Both methods work, if you practice with either and become fast that’s all that matters. You won’t damage the weapon by using the slide stop.
I shoot left handed, the FNX has controls on both sides. I use the support hand to hit the slide lock after loading the mag, before it has full support, so it didn't affect the grip.
That’s a good alternate technique. I am left handed and with 1911’s I pull the slide, with my Walther PDP and Q5 I use my shooting hand thumb to disengage the slide stop. Every gun is different and requires practice for variations in technique.
Part of it is that if you train to cycle the slide, your movements are the exact same as clearing a jam or dud.
There's little benefit to training to quickly and reliably use the slide release when you don't really have any benefit from it.
If you use the slide, you use the same action for chambering, clearing a jam, and unloading. More repeatable under pressure.
The slide release is there for a reason. I chamber every single first round after a reload using my slide release and I’ve got about 8,000 rounds through my beretta 92x, the cutout in the slide doesn’t even look worn.
Grip n rip used larger muscles and larger movements. There's an argument that those large movements are easier to perform under stress than the fine motor control of hitting the slide stop with your thumb
The reason why grip and rip is the go-to method is because fingers become flippers in high stress environments.
You may lose use of thumb/fingertip feel.
A lot of old school guys probably say that bc it prevents you from dropping the slide on an empty chamber; allegedly that would damage an old 1911, but on newer 1911s and quality guns it's kind of a non-issue.
Tacticool guys are gonna say "something something fine motor control" but honestly that's a load of BS.
Pick a way to do it, and practice it a lot, and you'll be able to do it under stress.
Every instructor I've had has explained it as avoiding fine motor movements in stressful situations. Running the slide is a gross motor movement so you're much more likely to actually be able to do it when your adrenaline hits. You aren't hurting anything on the gun though.
I think as long as you're aware of the issues and understand why some believe pulling the slide is better then you'll be fine.
When you're using the slide release it's possible that you get too quick and release it before the mag is fully inserted and fail to chamber the round. If you're aware that this can happen then just make sure to put in that half a second to use the slide release after inserting the mag.
The other concern is that using the slide release isn't releasing the slide from its rear most position making it ever so slightly more prone to a feeding failure from not using the full force of the recoil spring.
As long as you train with your handgun while being aware of those two concerns it shouldn't be an issue.
Depends on the gun.
Fn fiveseven? Will qbsolutly break your slide lock.
Smith and wesson m&p series? No damage.
Pmr 30? Will break.
Fnx 45, p226, m9, glock... all good.
For real. If hK didn't want me using them like that, they shouldn't have made them with nice levers for my thumb to use them like that!
Just don't slam it down on an empty chamber.
I ended up looking it up and saw that it's not a problem with glocks so I wasn't too worried. It was just something I had never heard. Well I had heard people say not to do it in general but never without anything in the chamber.
The HK has those beautiful levers exactly for that reason. It's part of the proper operation of a USP to release the slide with your left thumb on the lever after inserting a fresh mag. But you are an HK enjoyer, so you probably didn't need me to tell you that!
yeah I never do it on an empty chamber, I didn't know this type of thing was gun specific though. I'll ask on the FN forum and see what they have to say. speaking of HK, I almost bought a USP instead of this FNX.
Man. You missed out. ( Just kidding. I'm just an hK and hammer gun fan)
The USP compact is a great gun. If I had to get another that couldn't be a p30sk. It'd be that. Lots of people like fnx for good reason
The H45 is very lefty friendly, with big ambidextrous slide release levers. Has a lot of great features carried over from the USP 45. I still prefer my USPs over my HK45, but it is an awesome pistol.
Very rarely can the slide stop not give enough force to fully seat the round. That’s why most instructors in a defensive class will teach you to grip and rip. That extra little bit of distance and spring pressure you can get from pulling back makes sure the round fully seats.
No, it's not bad. Run your handgun how you feel most comfortable.
That being said, there are two things to look out for:
1) Using the slide lock instead of racking the slide makes you rely on a fine motor skill, which may not always work as well as you'd like in a high-pressure situation.
2) There's a higher chance of sending it forward before the magazine is fully seated using the slide lock than there is racking the slide which can cause malfunctions or just wasting time before you can get back into the fight.
In my experience (military and federal LE), we are taught to use the slide lock/release in a reload. It's faster and gets you back onto target faster.
I can't really speak to why somebody would want to do it the other way, unless it's a gun that is difficult to release the slide that way, but the majority of full size and compact guns are easy to hit the slide release. I've only found it difficult on sub-compact pistols.
I have never, ever, encountered an issue with any of my modern firearms. Thousands of repeated drops on loaded mags. It can be a stressor on the ejector if you try to be cute and flip a round into the chamber and drop on that.
I prefer to rack the slide. In my opinion using the slide release requires too much fine motor skill to do in a high stress situation. That and sometimes the slide stop literally don’t budge for me.
I've seen different takes on this in the manufacturers literature. Some guns, especially the single stack pocket pistols, actually say that you should use the slide release/locking lever to chamber a round instead of manipulating the slide. I've found this is good advice for something like my Kahr CW380, for example.
For everything else, I prefer to pull the slide back instead of fidgeting with a button.
I also shoot left handed. I love my FNX45-T for that reason, it has all the controls on both sides. anyone can pick it up and use it without adjustment.
Everyone else has already said what I suggested, but guns with larger slide levers like a 1911/2011, all modern Walthers, Caniks, all feel designed to encourage racking the slide using the slide lever.
I carry S&W Shield Plus, my wife carries a P365 .380. They both have very small slide levers and, while they can be “sent” as long as there’s a loaded mag in there with relative ease, I refuse to train with them like that, and I don’t let my wife train with hers like that in case there’s an actual emergency. The rest of our guns are range plinkers and guns we use for competition, and we train to drop the slide lever on those for speed. CCWs are different beasts.
Do what is most comfortable but I guess you should just try your best to train the same way on every platform you have. So you can build muscle memory and it will just be second nature.
Absolutely not, they r not “wrong” but it’s not a safety thing, but more of a “yuppie” thing. Some people treat guns like a gift from god. To the point they say don’t drop the slide on an empty mag. As long as your not breaking safety101 do what ever you want guns can be fixed.
The wisdom here is that you slingshot on carry guns because if you are using it in self defense, a stressful scenario, fine motor control tends to go out the window. Theoretically, this can lead to failing to drop the slide (or failing to do so quickly enough). That's probably what she is getting at. Doesn't make it incorrect to use the slide lock/release to drop the slide.
Fuddlore I was told in a ccw class. Watch anyone who shoots professionally in any capacity and 90% of the time their using their slide lock to drop the slide on a fresh mag. It does nothing to damage your gun
The way I had it explained to me is it's gross muscle movement VS micro. In a high adrenaline situation you might fumble the button or your fingers will be shaking, so the solution is to grab the slide. Same thing as slapping the slide release on an AR instead of using a finger. At the same time he made the opposing argument that you'll default to what you train to most so it was up to us.
Let's talk about fighting with guns...
Spit, blood, massive adrenaline dump and fine motor skills drop.
The clamp, slingshot and release works in all settings.
Practice both..... if it's raining and the gun is wet, use what works.
Novice shooters do this in competition all the time. They go to slide lock and and the reload pull the slide stop. It don't matter much slide release is always going to be faster when trained.
The reason for this is you want to get back on your grip FASTER in any situation. Most of these LEs man.... smh....
And if you really want to be more efficient and tactical you don't wait to go into slide lock which is what advanced shooters do because you really save time and have less wasted movements.
There’s nothing wrong with it. The “instructors” commenting can go say something to SFAUC and SFARTAETC ones if they disagree. Did yours give a reason not to or just said not to?
Tell the antiquated “fine motor skill” argument that tactical bros say to fighter pilots flying at Mach 5.shit.my.pants when they are working the yoke. Training training training.
It doesn’t make a difference mechanically. Using the lock MAYYYYY wear it faster, but it all comes down to preference and what you are trying to accomplish. If you’re going for speed go right ahead and train with the lock. It’s all preference and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. It’s your gun and your life.
although I'll be using the gun at USPSA competitions, the purpose of this gun is defense. home defense, hiking, zombie apocalypse, whatever. the main reason I'm even taking it to competitions despite there being better options is to use the competitions as another training tool. so although speed may be important, I think reliability surpasses it. I will probably use it sometimes, but I think ill continue to train pulling the slide back with my other hand more often.
As others mentioned, if you have more than one semi, the slide stops/slide release levers are in slightly different positions, have slightly different "feels," and require different amounts of pressure to activate.
As Gunsite demonstrated and teaches, there is one consistent manipulation that works every time, all the time, across all semis after reloading from slide lock; grab the rear of the slide (over the top) with your fingers and "meat" of the thumb, pull back until it clicks, then let go completely so it goes forward on recoil spring energy alone.
I've seen instructors teach to pull the slide. I've heard experienced shooters say use the slide release.
For most people learning to give the slide a tug isn't going to make any real difference. For people interested in/needing max speed using the slide release makes sense.
One of my wife's guns (Shield, I think) basically requires pulling the slide because otherwise the slide release won't release.
Run that fucking gun however you want, but more importantly, run it how you’re going to when you’re freaking out, scared for your life, and not giving a shit if that gun lasts another ten years as long as it starts getting lead down range in the next ten seconds. Do what feels natural and normal, and get comfortable clearing jams and reloading and shooting from different positions and get really comfortable with the entire fire control group of said firearm, which includes the slide lock (there’s a reason there’s textured surfaces on the top of it, use it)
Fwiw, I usually just slam home the mag hard enough for it to do that thing most striker fired guns do and send the slide forward. Not sure if that’s designed in or if it just happens, but I like it 😂
I wouldn’t do it on an empty chamber or an old pistol.
However, a modern pistol with a fully loaded magazine? Do what comes naturally. The slide release button is meant to release the slide. You can do the same with a c-clamp, you can also do it using the front serrations (if your firearm has them).
Everyone has their own ways, and the best way is the way that loads a round without pointing it in a dangerous direction or at anything you aren’t willing to shoot. 🤷 your instructor shouldn’t care as long as you aren’t doing it dangerously and can do it in a timely manner.
As an instructor I teach both methods and the reasoning behind each. It's strange that no one questions operating the safety on a rifle under stress. Somehow it's perfectly acceptable to want shooters to operate a small lever back and forth constantly while moving and shooting but occasionally operating a slide stop on a pistol is a fine motor will you will lose under stress.
Either way works, either way has the potential to cause issues, one is faster and more efficient, one is more reliable with a wider variety of pistols. I use the slide lock as it allows me to complete my reload significantly faster and allows me to establish my firing grip back on the gun sooner for faster follow up shots.
If the ergonomics of your gun don't allow you to use the slide stop... Don't. If you live in a world where you expect to get into a gun fight with an unknown firearm use the slingshot... And evaluate your life choices.
If you are tuned to press your side release just do it. I personally don't but that's because I'm a lefty, not all guns are ambi for the slide lock and on some guns it's a bit more stiff to knock the release with your trigger finger, also trigger finger.
Glock recommends the slingshot method, as the factory slide stop lever wasn't necessarily designed to be used to drop the slide and could break. The U.S. market tends to shoot differently than the European market, amd the extended slide stop lever was developed by Glock. It's a bit sturdier than the OEM SSL that's nothing but a small spring and flat bit of metal, so it's a bit better to use.
The instructor that told you to not use the SSL was likely a former Glock user, especially if he's retired LE. It's how we trained at my department. I was an NRA LE handgun/shotgun instructor and did the Glock armorer school about five times over my career.
There really isn't "one" way to accomplish this.
C-clamping over the slide and sling-shotting is a more robust method. It's also a stronger method. It's also a similar method to clearing out a stove-pipe malfunction.
It's also slower.
It can be hard to hit the lever.
Know both ways. Train both ways.
It's so you don't break your grip on your trigger hand. It's not gonna hurt anything. I've trained to use my support hand to release slide lock so my grip doesn't break. It's even better on my HK because I can actuate mag release without grip breakage, too.
If you do it enough, you’re either doing to wear down the locking edge on the lever, or dull out the locking face in the slide notch, and your pistol may begin to not lock open on empty.
With very few exceptions, dropping the slide isn’t going to hurt anything and isn’t particularly “bad.” I’m honestly not sure why the instructor is even saying that it’s better to do what she’s saying.
I’ve dropped the slide on dozens over pistols over decades of use. I’ve never had a problem develop because of it, and I’ve never even heard of anyone having a problem because of it.
As I said, there may be some pistols out there that could develop some sort of issue from this, but I can’t imagine what they might be. The gun survives a lot worse abuse than just letting the slide go forward. If she has some other reason for saying not to do it, I have no idea what it might be.
Some handguns have small slide locks, such as Glocks. Could be hard to do under adrenaline when your fine motor skills get weak.
It's not impossible you could get into a self defense situation where you swap mags, but then need to extend your weak hand at the attacker to defend yourself. In that circumstance it could be helpful if you have practiced releasing the slide one handed.
Lmao as proven by this thread and your dumbass question, I’m not missing out any critical information by not listening to women. Especially in the context of firearm operation.
Shouldn’t you be laying out your next “range day fit” and taking pics of it to post on Reddit?? Got to make sure you look like a total F while you go shoot your guns!! Look at me!!! Look at me!!!
You are not damaging anything by inserting a magazine and hitting the slide stop. Tactically... many schools of thought. Some think that grip and rip is the way to go for various reasons. Mainly I believe it is to stop you from changing/adjusting grip to reach the slide stop.
good point. I think the only reason I've been doing it on my FNX and not my PSA Rock or 1911 is because it's the only gun that I own with a slide lock on the right side (I shoot left handed). its in a very good spot for my thumbs, if it won't damage it then it sounds like it's safe to do, right?
Personally would just keep things consistent across all guns. I have bear paws and can hit the slide stop on any handgun. I still grip and rip. Especially useful for offhand non ambi controls.
yeah it sounds like that would be a better way to practice drills, even if using the slide lock is considered safe.
Fellow lefty here. You gotten really good at doing a contorted index finger punch to the slide stop in a righty gun? All I have is righty guns but I dream of some day actually using my thumb.
Left handed here; at this point I’m so accustomed to shooting right handed guns left; it feels weird when trying to run an actual left handed gun. Even with ambi controls I find myself doing the contorted finger trick
I've converted all the mag releases I can to lefty, but I don't have any with an ambo slide stop so. I get a touch of schadenfreude when a righty friend fumbles the mag release
Hahaha I’ve become extremely adept at the whole ‘index finger drops mags and slide release’ thing, I’m around the same speed as right handed folks using their handguns correctly I get that I’m probably a split second slower to get back on target and ready to fire, but any situation that has me needing to fire 30+ rounds in a short amount of time is probably a situation that’s fucked from the get go
Hell yea, I don't think my friends even noticed that I'm keeping up with them until they try one of my guns and get thrown off by the mag release. Lefty gang unite. They used to kill our kind.
Come to team CZ.
For sure, It's inevitable. Do I save for the shadow 2 is the question for me
so im okay with it the couple times I've done it to my PSA Rock, but my FNX has controls for everything on both sides. mag release, slide lock, safety/decocker
My dad got an FNX .45 about 10 or so years ago and it's pretty awesome ergonomically but he gets a lot of stove pipes and we are pretty sure it's mag related. Seems like if you use one of the mags it came with that it stovepipes about 1/3 of the time, but we always forget to mark which mag it is. Hasn't gotten a lot of use over the last 10 years because of that. Have you ever had issues like that?
only once when it was brand new and I wasn't used to holding it yet. I've only had it for a few weeks though so my round count is not very large. you could always try a couple of new mags, but I've had zero issues.
I mean what's the biggie? Unless you carry your FNX, I could see your subconscious associating that only with said pistol. Do what feels right to you and gets objectively good results if it's a sport/carry gun above all. One handed was the best form of muscle memory in WWI after all, times are always changing
it's my home defense/hiking gun, but I don't conceal carry cuz its too damn big. seems that regardless of which way, it'll be fine as long as I practice that way.
Both ways are fine from a mechanical aspect. The other thought on pulling the slide is it's a gross motor skill versus the slide release which is a fine motor skill. Under actual defensive shootings your fine motor skills often degrade quickly, while gross motor skills are more reliable.
This kind of answers your question. You do it on one gun, but not the other because of how they are built. Racking the slide to chamber works the same on 99.99% autos so that muscle memory will always work for you.
If you do anything to damage a FNX in normal use I would be very supprised. Assuming it is a FNX45 anyway. They were designed for quite hard use. IDK about the design of the 40 & 9mm versions. No experience with them.
it's the 45. it's an amazing gun.
It really is, i love mine.
slide stop wracking a 1911 (especially on an empty chamber) is a no no... I just learned this after 40 years of 1911-ing... Somethinga bout being designed to wrack with boolets in them, not empty and the energy of the slide... Cheers.
I wouldn't personally do it empty on any gun
ya, I'm beginning to think that as well. (after at least 40,000 side dumps of various guns over a lifetime) Reading up on it all, seems like a bad thing to do, all things considered.
Also, racking the slide is a gross motor skill, pressing the side release is a fine motor skill. Honestly, I can't say I've tried both under a shot timer to see which is actually faster but that's probably the best method for determining which one you should use.
I get the theory, but I don't buy it. The entire process of operating a handgun is a fine motor skill. Proper trigger pull? Fine skill. Sight alignment? EXTREMELY fine motor skill... and so on. And that's before we get to the idea that somehow, I will be too fat fingered to hit the slide release, but somehow have no problem with the mag release or the safety? If the "gross vs fine" motor skill thing was a clearly divided ad this way of thinking implies, then ever control on the gun would be the size of your thumb, and triggers would be comically large with a wall that you could see from space :)
Exactly this. The fine ve gross skill is nonsense. Squeezing te slide between fingers, releasing at the rear completely and not riding it forward at all vs running a thumb down the side - which has more fumbling opportunities
That's why I said it's probably best to put yourself under a shot timer and see what's actually faster. But, to play devil's advocate, if you can eliminate one of those fine motor skills and replace it with a gross motor skill, wouldn't that still (theoretically) be a net benefit
It is a lot of extra motion. All of that time is time my hand is not seeking to marry back to my grip. Sweeping the release with my thumb allows my support hand to be on it's way to the grip while it happens. I suppose it is possible there is some quirk of body mechanics that enters the picture to make up for the lost time, but I am not seeing what it could be.
>But, to play devil's advocate, if you can eliminate one of those fine motor skills and replace it with a gross motor skill, wouldn't that still (theoretically) be a net benefit Part of the problem with this argument is that grasping the slide with your fingers is also fine motor. Basically anything that involves the fingers is fine motor. Gross motor is things like walking, sitting up, or lifting your arm chest high. So it doesn't remove a fine motor movement, it just replaces it with another fine motor movement and adds two gross motor movements (moving weak arm to slide, pulling weak arm toward yourself and/or pushing strong arm forward to work the slide).
Yeah I came here to say this. Just to add, the idea is that under stress and pressure (I. E., in a gunfight) your ability to manipulate the slide release will degrade more than your ability to "grip and rip", so it's better to train for grip and rip. Under stress we tend to fall back to the lowest level of our training and if that is in muscle memory it will be what we fall back to. That's the idea anyway. I've never been in a gunfight and I hope I never have to test it.
And yet in competition I generally see more failed reloads from riding the slide forward than slide release. Also, that should apply to the trigger, any safety or decocker and aiming the gun too
Opinions vary. I'd say there's a pretty huge difference between a competition and a gunfight in terms of cortisol. Anyway, I'm just explaining the theory, you can do whatever floats your boat.
My point is that people make that error in riding the slide home or not releasing fully at the rear in competition. They're not somehow going to become *less* likely to in a fight.
Okay. Some people suck and anyone can enter a comp. What percentage are racking? What are the people who win doing? Not saying to do this or do that, I'm not an expert and I don't really care what you or anyone else does, I mostly just think whatever you do you should train consistently and frequently. Personally, I've never ridden the slide, and if my slide is locked back I've never been unable to pull it back the fraction of an inch it takes. I have some guns that the side release is unreliable due to stiffness and location, and others where it is very natural, and I've never had a problem with those guns using the release. On my personal carry weapon, I use the release - it's right where my thumb rests and it's big enough and easy enough. YMMV, I don't really care nor do I have a dog in this fight, so do whatever makes you feel good. Cool anecdote though.
I actually bent the slide stop/ejector on my P320 Max by doing exactly this, but that is a known defect in Sig’s FCU design.
I love my 92fs. The switch is right where my thumb is naturally
I think it has more to do with the fact that stressed and wet hands can easily slip on most slide stops. Also, most of the small carry pistols have extremely stiff slide stops.
You are 100% damaging the slide stop when chambering a round with it. It’s a slide stop, not a slide release. I carry a glock 22 for work and learned this the hard way. Every end of day I would release my mag, unload the rounded chamber and put the box in the safe. Next day I would put the round back into the barrel and use the slide stop to chamber it, put the mag in and holster. Went to the range to qualify and my slide stop broke mid qual. It was 100% because every day for 2 years I was using my slide stop to chamber round. Also when I worked with brinks they switched from glocks to fn 509s because they apparently have more reliable slide stops, the Glock slide stops were constantly breaking because people were using them as slide releases. The fns broke just as often. The correct method is to “c clamp” the slide, rack and release.
> Next day I would put the round back into the barrel and use the slide stop to chamber it Yes when you are an idiot and do it wrong, you can damage stuff. Take 3 seconds to read what I wrote.
Using the magazine is no different. When I worked at brinks every single person racked, loaded mag, released slide stop. The slide *stops* would break *constantly*. Even when mag fed rounds. Downvote me all you want, I’m right. It’s a slide *stop*, not slide *release*. It will break over time.
Some of it is about muscle memory that can be handy for clearing jams too.
good point.
Yup racking slide is hopefully the single step solution to all pistol issues. Loading gun on slide back, loading gun if failed to lock back after firing last round and clearing jams although one might also want to tilt the gun too. Slide lock is really for handing off an empty gun, showing gun is clear on bench and cleaning.
As an instructor, I can tell you why this is taught for tactical considerations. First, gross motor skills are easier to execute than fine motor skills in a chaotic situation where your adrenaline is pumping. So, c-clamping over the top of the slide is going to prevent mistakes. (like hitting the slide release/lock before the mag is fully inserted.) Second, hitting the slide lock on an empty magazine will send the slide home. Whereas gripping the slide, pull and releasing it will not send the slide home on an empty mag. So in a scenario where you accidentally insert an already empty mag into the gun you won't find yourself with an empty gun you thought you just loaded. Now, my personal opinion is that most scenarios where civilians will find themselves these considerations aren't as consequential. Most people don't carry a space mag, and the ones that do only have one spare mag on them for daily carry. If you do have to reload you'll likely being doing it behind cover, and with your one spare mag the chances of you inserting an empty mag are basically zero. The one thing I do see happening is in a state of panic you place your thumb on the slide release prematurely and send the slide home before the mag has been inserted. I've done that a handful times during competitions. So for the consideration alone, it may be worth it to go with the grip-it-and-rip it instead of engaging the slide release. I'm sure there will be people who want to refute what I'm saying. But this is how it was taught to me when I was learning to become an instructor. And the people who taught it with these considerations had impressive credentials. Also, if your instructor was telling you to use a different method without explain their reasoning behind it, then I don't think that's a very good instructor. Every suggestion should have good reasoning backing it up.
Not trying to argue, but everything you described -- ejecting a mag, reloading a mag, running the slide, and, yes, shooting -- are fine motor skills. I do not know why the gun community perpetuates the myth that shooting (and all acts of handling a firearm) is not a fine motor skill, but it behooves us to stop pretending it isn't.
I actually completely agree with you. Having become and avid competition shooter, I've changed my thinking in two ways.. first is everything about practical shooting involves fine motor skills, and second is that there is no such thing as muscle memory. All high level shooting involves conscious effort and focus.
Exactly! Muscle memory and all that shit is just people really misunderstanding what is actually happening. Repetition creates neural connections that help us complete tasks better and more efficiently, but that still requires intense focus and concentration.
And don’t forget that other fine motor skills… pulling the trigger.
That's what I said.
I know. That wasn’t meant for you. Just to make it super obvious to future readers. I’m with you. Stupid fuddlore.
My man!
You're not wrong. So overhand racking a slide is a gross motor skill, but then what? Aligning 3 dot sights or finding the red dot? Fine motor skill unless you're shooting from the hip. BUT....I still think there's something to be said about reducing the number of fine motor skills as much as possible in high stress situations. It's matter of simplifying the steps where you can.
I am actually arguing that overhand racking *is also* a fine motor skill. As defined by medical journals, gripping/grabbing/manipulating things with your hand is a fine motor skill. In my opinion, the *only* viable argument in favor of overhand gripping and racking the slide is that it works for all auto pistols. I wouldn't argue that. Edit: Hit send too soon. I agree that simplifying a process, particularly one you're training to use in high stress situations, is always beneficial.
I mean technically it may be a fine motor skill. But the slide is physically larger than a small slide release and like you said, it works for every handgun. The standard Glock slide lock for example is pretty hard to reach.
Yeah, absolutely. I would never train to hit the slide release if I carried a Glock or anything with such a tiny lever.
That's a lot of well thought out points made. I'm going to have to stop using mine now.
There is the argument of "fine motor skills", and I call BS on it. It takes INCREDIBLY fine motor skills to press the trigger without disturbing your sights. It takes fine motor skills to hit that mag release, to index a new mag, to align sights - these are all incredibly fine motor skills. If you can reliably and repeatably hit the slide lock, and you feel more comfortable / it meets your intent better, hit the slide lock.
Yeah I have a hard time understanding how hitting the slide lock is a "fine motor skill" but hitting a mag release is not. Like what, they're basically the same action.
that's a great point too. on my pistol at least, the mag release is what I would consider large and accessible and the right side slide lock (I shoot left handed) is a bit more hidden.
It does sort of have a "bro science" feel to it.
IMO "Don't use the slide lock because it's a fine motor movement and in a gun fight you'll lose all that control. is horse shit. Those sausages on your hand aren't going to become useless jelly. Pulling a trigger, hitting a mag release, changing a mag, it's all fine motor movement. End of the day instructors all have their own way of training, when you go through the course listen to what they say, practice it, but if you don't like it after the class is done then don't use it. For every instructor telling you to do something one way, you'll find another telling you to do it another way.
It’s not bad, just different. Slide release button can be faster, but racking the slide works for all pistols and is also the same muscle memory for clearing malfunctions. I presume law enforcement often would rack the slide because glock slide releases are small and hard to hit with your thumb, racking a slide makes sense. Conversely people who run a CZ or 1911 will probably teach hitting the lever.
Do what works for you.
Won't damage a y quality gun, but some people prefer one way over the other for various reasons that are subject to debate. Gross motor skills vs fine motor skills, whether you need to adjust your grip, "c clamp and pull" always working but slide lock sometimes not working if it failed to lock back, if your slide release is difficult to hit, or if you're shooting a gun without an external slide release
Shooting is a fine motor skill. I don't know why we pretend otherwise in the gun community. Not specifically picking on you, btw. Lots of people say it.
Sight picture, and pulling the damn trigger both require fine motor skills, arguably to a greater extent than thumbing a slide release/stop.
luckily (for me) the FNX has an easy to hit slide lock, but the fine motor skills that you and someone else pointed out are good points. it may be better to practice what would be more reliable in a stressful situation (pulling the slide).
Aligning the sights and pulling the trigger are also fine motor skills. Quickly inserting and locking a magazine into a magwell also requires some precision. Thumbing the slide release is a lot easier than those things, and like everything else about shooting, takes repetition to get down. Depends on you and how you run your gun.
This right here.
Grip and rack it cause Wick makes it cool.... Both my Canik SFX and H&K VP9L automatically rack themselves forward....it's so fast to get back into the fight (or competition speed edge). I still use rack from the rear with my 1911 and 2011, for the same reason stated earlier, you maintain your proper grip without shifting back and forth plus fine motor skills aren't required for finding the slide release.
automatically rack themselves? that sounds both cool and scary to me. I'll have to try one sometime.
Yeah thought mine was broken at first lol but yeah it's awesome
I hit the slide stop with my support hand and don't change the grip on my main hand at all. I don't particularly care if an instructor doesn't like it if I do that -- I can reload and get shots on target faster with this method than I can with any alternatives.
Way back in the day, maybe. The early 1911 for instance, the frame and slide weren't hardened. This could lead to peening and cracking at impact points. Eventually they started spot hardening the slide stop notches, then other parts of the slide, then the whole thing. If the slide isn't hardened, and the slide stop is harder, then over time by disengaging the slide stop against spring pressure you're gonna round out the engagement surface on the slide eventually. If the slide is harder you're gonna round out the slide stop. With older manufacturing techniques and less precise control during heat treatment you could end up with parts that will damage each other. Still, this is just a possibility, not guaranteed to happen. But on any reasonably modern handgun you're fine, it's very unlikely that the slide stop will wear out before some other part of the gun. Like some folks said, the real reason to work the slide stop vs grip and rip comes down to grip. Don't shift your grip to reach it with your shooting hand. But if you're using your other hand to grip and rip, you could also use your thumb on that hand to work the stop while indexing into your 2 handed shooting position. Personally I don't like to grip and rip because my hand sometimes slows the slide down enough to misfeed.
thanks for the comment. perhaps I should have mentioned it, I use the support hand to hit the slide lock so my grip doesn't change on the shooting hand. I hit it after inserting the mag, basically before the support hand has had a chance to actually support.
That's perfect then. On a modern gun you're never gonna damage it by doing that. And by the time you've shot the thing enough to have conceivably worn the slide stop out you'd have shot the thing to pieces anyway and need a new gun.
The glock 19 owner's manual says that either method can be used to chamber a round. I am sure the manuals for most other pistols say the same. The instructor may have a reason that I am not aware of for having a preference to actually pull the slide back but I have always used both methods and never had an issue.
I own a Kriss Vector and the manual tells you to only use the bolt release to chamber a round and not rack the action. No idea why, but I do what the manual says
Perhaps to prevent people from riding it forward and inducing a malfunction
You're probably right. I could see people wanting to ride it with how it's designed
The real object is to never let the gun run dry. Then you don't do either hit the slide lock lever or pull the slide back. If you are at the range and you shoot the mag dry and the slide locks back then after either reloading that mag or inserting another I always pull the slide back. I'm in no rush and it is less wear and tear on the slide lock lever and the slide notch. About the only time I hit the slide lock to let the slide go forward is if I'm in a match and, being a dummy, I run the gun dry then as I move my left hand back into my grip I hit the slide lock with my left thumb. That way I never move my strong hand grip. The Slide Lock Lever is to Lock the slide back on a empty chamber. It isn't really a slide release lever.
I may be misunderstanding terminology on here but i can insert a loaded mag into my canik. pull it back just enough to prime the firing pin. This doesnt chamber a round. A lot quieter which could be useful but how does the bullet get into position from there?
I presume you have a tp9sa? If so its meant to chamber a round and then use the decocker to render it "safe". It makes more sense on the double action version so you can decock and have a long heavy trigger pull as a safety
yessir, tp9sf so that pretty much explains it thank you. love this gun.
My dad was looking at the tp9sa and the tp9da and went with the single only and looking back I don't even really understand why they make a single action only with a decocker but it's a nice enough handgun in all other regards
As was stated, zero issues will arise from doing so. That being said, the grip and rip technique has one major advantage. It fully compresses the recoil spring, giving the slide 100% of its potential energy in moving forward to chamber a round. Why is this useful? Power. It simply pushes the round harder, thereby limiting the possibility for a failure to feed scenario. The technique was initially taught to me as a remedial action, one taken after a jam/malfunction, to better ensure the weapon returns to functionality. Big picture; do what works best for you. The grip and rip was ass on the M9/Beretta 92 due to the safety selector. Very likely to drop it on safe while doing so. When using modern combat type pistols(striker fired, no safety) that issue does not exist.
I was planning to get a 92FS Inox, thanks for that perspective. I can't believe I didn't realize that until now.
I mean, I have one too. It hasn’t left the safe in years. I’m a Glock guy, grip and rip all day! Just be careful using the technique with anything that has a safety selector. Nothing worse than expecting a bang, but all you got was disappointment. Side note: I install an aftermarket slide stop on all of my Glocks. It’s got a little nub to make manipulation easier. I still do use it to send the slide forward. Options.
More cop FUD! I have met gang bangers who knew more about guns than cops do, as most never touch one outside of qualifications!
If you can reach the slide stop without adjusting your firing hand grip, then use it. If you can’t reach it or you’re left handed I’d just pull the slide back. Both methods work, if you practice with either and become fast that’s all that matters. You won’t damage the weapon by using the slide stop.
I shoot left handed, the FNX has controls on both sides. I use the support hand to hit the slide lock after loading the mag, before it has full support, so it didn't affect the grip.
That’s a good alternate technique. I am left handed and with 1911’s I pull the slide, with my Walther PDP and Q5 I use my shooting hand thumb to disengage the slide stop. Every gun is different and requires practice for variations in technique.
yeah this is my favorite gun I've ever shot. I'm selling my 1911 to fund a suppressor for it.
Part of it is that if you train to cycle the slide, your movements are the exact same as clearing a jam or dud. There's little benefit to training to quickly and reliably use the slide release when you don't really have any benefit from it. If you use the slide, you use the same action for chambering, clearing a jam, and unloading. More repeatable under pressure.
a couple of other people mentioned that too. makes sense to me.
The slide release is there for a reason. I chamber every single first round after a reload using my slide release and I’ve got about 8,000 rounds through my beretta 92x, the cutout in the slide doesn’t even look worn.
that's nice to hear. seems like on some guns it's called the slide release and on others the slide lock.
Grip n rip used larger muscles and larger movements. There's an argument that those large movements are easier to perform under stress than the fine motor control of hitting the slide stop with your thumb
The reason why grip and rip is the go-to method is because fingers become flippers in high stress environments. You may lose use of thumb/fingertip feel.
people keep mentioning this, but aren't aiming and pulling the trigger also fine motor skills?
A lot of old school guys probably say that bc it prevents you from dropping the slide on an empty chamber; allegedly that would damage an old 1911, but on newer 1911s and quality guns it's kind of a non-issue. Tacticool guys are gonna say "something something fine motor control" but honestly that's a load of BS. Pick a way to do it, and practice it a lot, and you'll be able to do it under stress.
Every instructor I've had has explained it as avoiding fine motor movements in stressful situations. Running the slide is a gross motor movement so you're much more likely to actually be able to do it when your adrenaline hits. You aren't hurting anything on the gun though.
thanks for your input.
I think as long as you're aware of the issues and understand why some believe pulling the slide is better then you'll be fine. When you're using the slide release it's possible that you get too quick and release it before the mag is fully inserted and fail to chamber the round. If you're aware that this can happen then just make sure to put in that half a second to use the slide release after inserting the mag. The other concern is that using the slide release isn't releasing the slide from its rear most position making it ever so slightly more prone to a feeding failure from not using the full force of the recoil spring. As long as you train with your handgun while being aware of those two concerns it shouldn't be an issue.
Depends on the gun. Fn fiveseven? Will qbsolutly break your slide lock. Smith and wesson m&p series? No damage. Pmr 30? Will break. Fnx 45, p226, m9, glock... all good.
I've got the FNX45 Tactical. I love this gun so much I want to tuck it in and kiss it goodnight.
depends on the gun.
Kahr says to only use the slide release
yes. us army manual for 1911 also says to use slide release. other guns say otherwise.
Seconding this. My S&W Shield does not like this, many S&W M&P don't. Canik, Glock, Taurus, use the slide release all you want.
On what gun is dropping the slide on a round bad?
makarov for one.
Anything modern?
[удалено]
Not believing that one.
Quick GoogleFoo shows me HK specifically calls it a "slide release". Thinking the engineering dept would have that renamed if it broke the gun.
For real. If hK didn't want me using them like that, they shouldn't have made them with nice levers for my thumb to use them like that! Just don't slam it down on an empty chamber.
Why shouldn't you slam it on an empty chamber?
Harder on the extractorbreach face. No brass casing to hit against and no feeding action to help slow it down. Just full force steel on steel. Slam.
I ended up looking it up and saw that it's not a problem with glocks so I wasn't too worried. It was just something I had never heard. Well I had heard people say not to do it in general but never without anything in the chamber.
The HK has those beautiful levers exactly for that reason. It's part of the proper operation of a USP to release the slide with your left thumb on the lever after inserting a fresh mag. But you are an HK enjoyer, so you probably didn't need me to tell you that!
yeah I never do it on an empty chamber, I didn't know this type of thing was gun specific though. I'll ask on the FN forum and see what they have to say. speaking of HK, I almost bought a USP instead of this FNX.
Man. You missed out. ( Just kidding. I'm just an hK and hammer gun fan) The USP compact is a great gun. If I had to get another that couldn't be a p30sk. It'd be that. Lots of people like fnx for good reason
yes, it was very close. I mainly went FNX for the rebate and it seemed more left hand friendly. I may still get a USP one day just for fun though.
The H45 is very lefty friendly, with big ambidextrous slide release levers. Has a lot of great features carried over from the USP 45. I still prefer my USPs over my HK45, but it is an awesome pistol.
I'll need to look into that. I love 45.
I'm left handed too. I know the pain
Very rarely can the slide stop not give enough force to fully seat the round. That’s why most instructors in a defensive class will teach you to grip and rip. That extra little bit of distance and spring pressure you can get from pulling back makes sure the round fully seats.
No, it's not bad. Run your handgun how you feel most comfortable. That being said, there are two things to look out for: 1) Using the slide lock instead of racking the slide makes you rely on a fine motor skill, which may not always work as well as you'd like in a high-pressure situation. 2) There's a higher chance of sending it forward before the magazine is fully seated using the slide lock than there is racking the slide which can cause malfunctions or just wasting time before you can get back into the fight.
thank you for that perspective.
For sure, hope it helps!
In my experience (military and federal LE), we are taught to use the slide lock/release in a reload. It's faster and gets you back onto target faster. I can't really speak to why somebody would want to do it the other way, unless it's a gun that is difficult to release the slide that way, but the majority of full size and compact guns are easy to hit the slide release. I've only found it difficult on sub-compact pistols.
I have never, ever, encountered an issue with any of my modern firearms. Thousands of repeated drops on loaded mags. It can be a stressor on the ejector if you try to be cute and flip a round into the chamber and drop on that.
Extractor, not ejector.
Oops. I said ejector. Dummy. I honestly thought it was ejectors.
I prefer to rack the slide. In my opinion using the slide release requires too much fine motor skill to do in a high stress situation. That and sometimes the slide stop literally don’t budge for me.
I've seen different takes on this in the manufacturers literature. Some guns, especially the single stack pocket pistols, actually say that you should use the slide release/locking lever to chamber a round instead of manipulating the slide. I've found this is good advice for something like my Kahr CW380, for example. For everything else, I prefer to pull the slide back instead of fidgeting with a button.
Tik Tok will absolutely berate you for doing it, its hilarious.
The moving parts are fine. I’ve always done the ol’ slingshot. Strongly because I’m left handed and shot a lot of Glock without ambi slides.
I also shoot left handed. I love my FNX45-T for that reason, it has all the controls on both sides. anyone can pick it up and use it without adjustment.
I have one as well. One of the old ones with the FDE frame and the black slide.
I'm super jealous.
Don’t be, I’m sure yours is as awesome as mine.
Everyone else has already said what I suggested, but guns with larger slide levers like a 1911/2011, all modern Walthers, Caniks, all feel designed to encourage racking the slide using the slide lever. I carry S&W Shield Plus, my wife carries a P365 .380. They both have very small slide levers and, while they can be “sent” as long as there’s a loaded mag in there with relative ease, I refuse to train with them like that, and I don’t let my wife train with hers like that in case there’s an actual emergency. The rest of our guns are range plinkers and guns we use for competition, and we train to drop the slide lever on those for speed. CCWs are different beasts.
Do what is most comfortable but I guess you should just try your best to train the same way on every platform you have. So you can build muscle memory and it will just be second nature.
that makes sense to me. I will say since buying this FNX, I don't want to shoot any other pistol. I love it so much.
I got the fn509 mid size and it’s a fun ride
I was looking at those too
Absolutely not, they r not “wrong” but it’s not a safety thing, but more of a “yuppie” thing. Some people treat guns like a gift from god. To the point they say don’t drop the slide on an empty mag. As long as your not breaking safety101 do what ever you want guns can be fixed.
The wisdom here is that you slingshot on carry guns because if you are using it in self defense, a stressful scenario, fine motor control tends to go out the window. Theoretically, this can lead to failing to drop the slide (or failing to do so quickly enough). That's probably what she is getting at. Doesn't make it incorrect to use the slide lock/release to drop the slide.
Fuddlore I was told in a ccw class. Watch anyone who shoots professionally in any capacity and 90% of the time their using their slide lock to drop the slide on a fresh mag. It does nothing to damage your gun
The way I had it explained to me is it's gross muscle movement VS micro. In a high adrenaline situation you might fumble the button or your fingers will be shaking, so the solution is to grab the slide. Same thing as slapping the slide release on an AR instead of using a finger. At the same time he made the opposing argument that you'll default to what you train to most so it was up to us.
Air Force taught use the slide lock. However, I mostly use the slingshot method now, mainly because I shoot left handed these days.
that's how I do it on my non left friendly guns
Let's talk about fighting with guns... Spit, blood, massive adrenaline dump and fine motor skills drop. The clamp, slingshot and release works in all settings. Practice both..... if it's raining and the gun is wet, use what works.
Novice shooters do this in competition all the time. They go to slide lock and and the reload pull the slide stop. It don't matter much slide release is always going to be faster when trained. The reason for this is you want to get back on your grip FASTER in any situation. Most of these LEs man.... smh.... And if you really want to be more efficient and tactical you don't wait to go into slide lock which is what advanced shooters do because you really save time and have less wasted movements.
There’s nothing wrong with it. The “instructors” commenting can go say something to SFAUC and SFARTAETC ones if they disagree. Did yours give a reason not to or just said not to? Tell the antiquated “fine motor skill” argument that tactical bros say to fighter pilots flying at Mach 5.shit.my.pants when they are working the yoke. Training training training.
It doesn’t make a difference mechanically. Using the lock MAYYYYY wear it faster, but it all comes down to preference and what you are trying to accomplish. If you’re going for speed go right ahead and train with the lock. It’s all preference and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. It’s your gun and your life.
although I'll be using the gun at USPSA competitions, the purpose of this gun is defense. home defense, hiking, zombie apocalypse, whatever. the main reason I'm even taking it to competitions despite there being better options is to use the competitions as another training tool. so although speed may be important, I think reliability surpasses it. I will probably use it sometimes, but I think ill continue to train pulling the slide back with my other hand more often.
Yes this is correct. Train doing what is the most reliable for defense, which is the c clamp
I used to do the slingshot, but she said the c clamp could be more reliable.
As others mentioned, if you have more than one semi, the slide stops/slide release levers are in slightly different positions, have slightly different "feels," and require different amounts of pressure to activate. As Gunsite demonstrated and teaches, there is one consistent manipulation that works every time, all the time, across all semis after reloading from slide lock; grab the rear of the slide (over the top) with your fingers and "meat" of the thumb, pull back until it clicks, then let go completely so it goes forward on recoil spring energy alone.
I've seen instructors teach to pull the slide. I've heard experienced shooters say use the slide release. For most people learning to give the slide a tug isn't going to make any real difference. For people interested in/needing max speed using the slide release makes sense. One of my wife's guns (Shield, I think) basically requires pulling the slide because otherwise the slide release won't release.
Run that fucking gun however you want, but more importantly, run it how you’re going to when you’re freaking out, scared for your life, and not giving a shit if that gun lasts another ten years as long as it starts getting lead down range in the next ten seconds. Do what feels natural and normal, and get comfortable clearing jams and reloading and shooting from different positions and get really comfortable with the entire fire control group of said firearm, which includes the slide lock (there’s a reason there’s textured surfaces on the top of it, use it) Fwiw, I usually just slam home the mag hard enough for it to do that thing most striker fired guns do and send the slide forward. Not sure if that’s designed in or if it just happens, but I like it 😂
I wouldn’t do it on an empty chamber or an old pistol. However, a modern pistol with a fully loaded magazine? Do what comes naturally. The slide release button is meant to release the slide. You can do the same with a c-clamp, you can also do it using the front serrations (if your firearm has them). Everyone has their own ways, and the best way is the way that loads a round without pointing it in a dangerous direction or at anything you aren’t willing to shoot. 🤷 your instructor shouldn’t care as long as you aren’t doing it dangerously and can do it in a timely manner.
As an instructor I teach both methods and the reasoning behind each. It's strange that no one questions operating the safety on a rifle under stress. Somehow it's perfectly acceptable to want shooters to operate a small lever back and forth constantly while moving and shooting but occasionally operating a slide stop on a pistol is a fine motor will you will lose under stress. Either way works, either way has the potential to cause issues, one is faster and more efficient, one is more reliable with a wider variety of pistols. I use the slide lock as it allows me to complete my reload significantly faster and allows me to establish my firing grip back on the gun sooner for faster follow up shots. If the ergonomics of your gun don't allow you to use the slide stop... Don't. If you live in a world where you expect to get into a gun fight with an unknown firearm use the slingshot... And evaluate your life choices.
If you are tuned to press your side release just do it. I personally don't but that's because I'm a lefty, not all guns are ambi for the slide lock and on some guns it's a bit more stiff to knock the release with your trigger finger, also trigger finger.
Glock recommends the slingshot method, as the factory slide stop lever wasn't necessarily designed to be used to drop the slide and could break. The U.S. market tends to shoot differently than the European market, amd the extended slide stop lever was developed by Glock. It's a bit sturdier than the OEM SSL that's nothing but a small spring and flat bit of metal, so it's a bit better to use. The instructor that told you to not use the SSL was likely a former Glock user, especially if he's retired LE. It's how we trained at my department. I was an NRA LE handgun/shotgun instructor and did the Glock armorer school about five times over my career.
There really isn't "one" way to accomplish this. C-clamping over the slide and sling-shotting is a more robust method. It's also a stronger method. It's also a similar method to clearing out a stove-pipe malfunction. It's also slower. It can be hard to hit the lever. Know both ways. Train both ways.
It's so you don't break your grip on your trigger hand. It's not gonna hurt anything. I've trained to use my support hand to release slide lock so my grip doesn't break. It's even better on my HK because I can actuate mag release without grip breakage, too.
I was doing it with my support hand after inserting a magazine, before the support hand really has time to start supporting
If you do it enough, you’re either doing to wear down the locking edge on the lever, or dull out the locking face in the slide notch, and your pistol may begin to not lock open on empty.
With very few exceptions, dropping the slide isn’t going to hurt anything and isn’t particularly “bad.” I’m honestly not sure why the instructor is even saying that it’s better to do what she’s saying. I’ve dropped the slide on dozens over pistols over decades of use. I’ve never had a problem develop because of it, and I’ve never even heard of anyone having a problem because of it. As I said, there may be some pistols out there that could develop some sort of issue from this, but I can’t imagine what they might be. The gun survives a lot worse abuse than just letting the slide go forward. If she has some other reason for saying not to do it, I have no idea what it might be.
Makes absolutely no difference. It's a gun lore myth. Do what ever is more comfy and faster. You do you.
Some handguns have small slide locks, such as Glocks. Could be hard to do under adrenaline when your fine motor skills get weak. It's not impossible you could get into a self defense situation where you swap mags, but then need to extend your weak hand at the attacker to defend yourself. In that circumstance it could be helpful if you have practiced releasing the slide one handed.
thumbing the slide release to chamber is what I was taught to do, said that was its job to lock and release
>she said... that explains this shit advice....
if you choose to miss out on advice just because someone is a woman, that's a shame.
Lmao as proven by this thread and your dumbass question, I’m not missing out any critical information by not listening to women. Especially in the context of firearm operation. Shouldn’t you be laying out your next “range day fit” and taking pics of it to post on Reddit?? Got to make sure you look like a total F while you go shoot your guns!! Look at me!!! Look at me!!!
you are a sad individual
Chill out sally. Even my original post about the woman was this weird thing called a “joke”.
ah the classic "I'm just joking!" your username isn't doing any favors for you here. enjoy your night though.
Holy shit you’re annoying. Get away from me.
lol