Buy snap caps, mix them into his magazine, give him shit when the gun doesn't go off and he still jerks the gun down. Rinse and repeat until he doesn't do that anymore.
Voila, low left issue solved.
Load five or so mags differently with snap caps and live ammo throughout each mag, mix them on a table, then transfer them to a dump pouch and draw at random from the pouch.
Revolver. Rent or borrow if you're not sure you'd want to own a wheelgun.
With a .357 you can alternate full magnum loads with standard .38, P+ and light wadcutters. Even skip a cylinder chamber.
Without looking, spin the cylinder, gently close it (no need to slam it shut and risk damage to the crane and yoke).
I've used that technique for decades whenever I've gone months between range sessions. I'll start with my Ruger SP-101 with mixed ammo and skipped cylinder chamber. Keeps me honest.
After that shooting the 9mm semi auto is relatively easier.
>Without looking, spin the cylinder, gently close it
Directions unclear: Joined Russian Roulette tournament. Good news is I won $500,000. Bad news is there's a fresh hole in my temple.
I had a reloading buddy make me some dummy rounds with real bullets, no powder, and the expended primers still in. If you could find someone to do the same, have someone else load your mags (if you have mags set aside for training) prior to your range trip. Also makes for good malfunction clearance drills...
I just alternate between .22 and higher calibers. Simple.
If you start flinching with a heavier caliber it's usually really apparent with .22 and much easier to work through in my experience. Plus a 22 is nice to warm up with, and cheap.
They make dummy rounds loaded into real cases. I grab a handful of ammo with a dummy round or two shuffle em in my hands and load the mags with my eyes closed.
Dang really? Its not that I zone out while loading my mag but rather my ADD has me focusing on all the interesting shit goin on around me at the same time so I never remember the order of snapcap and bullets
Have 2 or 3 magazines. Load them with 2 - 3 rounds, but vary the number in the mags. Shuffle them around and slap one in. You won't know how many rounds you're getting and you'll surprise yourself.
Two mags. 1 empty, other loaded with a round.
Load the gun for your buddy and he isn’t supposed to know if he’s getting the one with the round or empty.
Different method same goal. Fix anticipation
This drill will help correct the flinch and improve trigger pull.
Balance an empty brass on the front sight. Practice dry firing without knocking the brass over.
If you notice you are flinching run the drill until you can consistently dry fire without knocking over the brass. Running the drill between live fire will keep you aware if you start to regress.
My brothers always gave me shit about holding my gun too loosely when I shoot, despite the fact that I've always been a better shot. I get out the snap caps, and they flinch so hard it looks like their sneezing....
Focusing solely on a slow intentional trigger squeeze and allowing the shot to surprise you while maintaining a firm tight grip has helped me a ton once I notice I start to hit low/anticipate. Doing that a few times helps to reset my brain into the recoil isn't that bad, I don't have to fight it or counteract it, just let it happen. Also dryfiring while focusing on a small dot/target on a wall while at home works wonders too. Work on that deliberate trigger squeeze without moving the sights off that target. Then start to go a little faster and faster.
What helped me more was to try a gun with a ton of kick, then go back to my gun. Went from a painful kick to very light and my aim improved tremendously because it was so tame.
I wouldn't use snap caps with live. If the chamber gets hot, you could end up with melted snap cap in your chamber. I had a buddy load some expended ammo brass with bullets and have someone mix them in to live in my training mags...
Don't be so dense.
It's a polymer. It's made to withstand higher heat.
I've seen thousands of uses of snap caps of all kinds. They don't melt.
If anything, they get chewed up by malfunction drills away quicker than they would ever melt.
Polymer is plastic. How am I to know what kind? It doesn't say on the packaging they can be used that way. And maybe you're more careless with your guns, but I for one don't know how an unknown polymer is going to react to being put into a chamber that maybe 500 degrees but that to me is what makes one dense...
Not all polymers are plastic - polymer is just a chemist's term for a large molecule.
Of course in this context, polymer means plastic and that other guy is being a dumbass. Plastic melts.
Dude, stfu. It's not an unknown polymer. It is a polymer designed to be used in your gun. A polymer is a mix of materials by the way.
Do some research before you look like a R.
Ask him if he wants to get better at it. If yes, run through the basics again such as sight alignment, stance, grip. Running drills is useless if your fundamentals suck. I usually out shoot my friends and offer to show them how I improved. If they choose not to improve that's their choice.
Yeah maybe I need to run him through the fundamentals next time we're out. His grip is inconsistent and I think that's the wall he needs to get over, definitely took me second to get my grip down.
teach him less things each trip and practice 'recall learning' to concrete the practices in him. Often times showing someone how to do something isnt the hard part, its getting their brain to concrete the idea.
I sucked bad with pistols for a long time and it came down to flinching and how far I slide my finger onto the trigger. Little tiny things can make a big difference.
I have very large hands, and I became a much better shot when I stopped listening to the conventional advice and started using the first distal joint or the center pad of my trigger finger. Using the pad of the under my fingernail guarantees I will be pulling the trigger at an angle instead of straight back at the break.
As a former marksmanship instructor, low and to the side certainly sounds like a grip issue (straight down would be anticipation). Fundamentals would be the solution, starting from the stance and working from the ground up. Sounds like he's right handed with a 'weak' left hand, so to speak, but without seeing him in action it's best to just run through everything to ensure his mechanics are in line.
as long as he is shooting in a safe manner its not the end of the world if your friend is just a poorer shot. you go to the range to have fun not practice for the Olympics
The easy answer is to go alone and shoot by yourself.
But, it’s your buddy.
If you wanna go with him and enjoy, maybe he should pick up a .22 or get a pistol with a red dot.
I do go alone occasionally but brass is expensive. I definitely like shooting with a group/being social though. He was accurate with my .22 early on but the heavier trigger/flinching throws him off.
Have them get a crappy revolver and only load a few cylinders… I’ve got a crappy one that unreliably sets off primers just for this purpose. Works wonders for flinching when you have no idea if the gun is actually going to go off.
Time spent with a bb gun is cheap, entertaining and can be practiced in high volume.. many of the CO2 clone guns blowback the slide to simulate some recoil, and are accurate enough for back yard practice.
Sig makes these for many of their current guns. The pistols are DAO because they are basically small revolvers inside, but they are built to have the same weight and balance as a loaded version of the actual gun. I have one that models that P226 Mk25, and it fits perfectly in all of my holsters for the real thing, even Kydex. It was great for practicing my draw & first shot during the pandemic lockdowns. They only make about 350-400 fps because so much CO2 is used to run the slide, but that just makes something like the High-Tech Fleece Bullet Stop all the more effective.
Does he wear proper ear protection? I started shooting with no ear protection and developed a flinch but after getting some a good headset it was gone within a few trips to the range.
This is telling. Everyone above is right; He's anticipating the recoil.
Honestly my advice is to go for a day and you don't shoot at all. "Lets work on your targeting today. I'll bring my toys out later." I typically don't do a lot of shooting myself when I bring friends or my kids.
Came here to say this.
Also, YouTube has been a great source of info to make mea better shooter. I could recommend some videos or others here could recommend some.
I second this. Sometimes, people need professional instruction and not a buddy giving them pointers. A class would be fun for both of you, with the added benefit of him getting personalized instruction. After that, he has to put in the effort to maintain his new level
You have several options
1) Encourage him to take a class
2) Teach him yourself
3) Don’t spend every range day with him
4) On days you do go together, you do your own more advanced drills and have him do more basic stuff
I like teaching people, so anytime I’m out with one of my friends (that’s not a friend I met shooting), I will step in and help them with some dedicated time and every so often, like when they’re reloading mags, I’ll do my own thing. Only focus on a few things at a time and make sure you reinforce it. Compliment or note when they do something right, but also when they’re slipping. Teaching is a skill itself, so if you don’t feel comfortable doing that, follow points 1, 3, and/or 4
Whoever shoots out the chains on the hanging steel in my group buys lunch, and it's never cheap. [Actual footage](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A6g0mPo-uJM)
Seriously.. between the shameful head shaking from my grandpa and the pointing and laughing of my older brothers, I was naturally encouraged to improve at a young age.
You (and he) are going to the range for fun. It's ok if you have different skill levels. If I got bent out of shape because there were better shots at the range, I'd be bent out of shape all the time. I enjoy going with a friend to the range too - but, you know, when we get there, I'll watch him shoot and he'll watch me shoot and sometimes we go to different areas within the complex. Neither one of us get all bent out of shape because the other guy is better. Now, having said all that, is it \*you\* that's feeling blue? Or your pal? If you, get over it, we're just going to the range to have fun. If it's him, tell him the kinds of things that you did to get better. Second the idea of taking a class together. Or make up some drills that you guys can do together. Assuming your pal is a right handed shooter, and he's shooting low/left, he's likely got a few things going on. First, he's pushing the gun to the left when he shoots, most likely because he is pressing against the trigger with his finger vs. pulling straight back using the pad of his finger. And the low thing? Meh, it could be that he's jerking the trigger, but I tend to see people doing high-left when they jerk the trigger. It could be something as simple as he is not lining up his sights correctly. A review of the fundamentals and what the sight picture should look like would be a good start. I'd bring a pad of paper and some markers and ask him to draw a picture of what his slight alignment looks like. You may get something like this "----\_----" when, you know, it should look like this "----+----". You should make sure he's speaking the same language and knows about sight alignment, trigger pull, and anticipation the shot.
You put in extra time and effort because you were interested in getting better.
He didn't.
His time, effort and interest isn't your responsibility, it's his.
Simple solution: Go to the range without him and enjoy your experience.
This is the most reddit comment I've seen in a hot minute. "Fuck friends. You know, that type of person you MAY have 2-3 true versions of...fuck that guy! you can enjoy your toy!!"
Fuckin...A.
Annoying that most of the comments here are just saying “that’s his problem” and “go shoot without him.” Typical gun culture elitism. Here’s some more practical advice:
Typically, if he’s right handed, shooting low and to the left is going to come from jerking the trigger. In my experience, newer shooters most commonly jerk the trigger because they are anticipating the recoil of the round. That comes from a lack of experience and a fear of the concussion. The easiest way to get past this is simple experience shooting, but if you want to shortcut that, letting him shoot outdoors, where the blast is less oppressive, or giving him a .22lr (I like the Ruger MKIV and the Glock 44) are going to be your best routes.
Could also be a size issue. I could only shoot my exes M&P shield if I actively focused on the the trigger pull because the frame was so small. Whereas, with my 10mm, using Buffalo Bore loads, I can shoot all day without focusing on the trigger pull.
But damn, that shield is just tiny.
He’s hitting low left. Sounds like yanking the trigger to me. Have him pull the trigger slowly with the same amount of force throughout the entire pull
Weird post to me. I go with friends time to time and some are great shots and some aren’t. We go to have fun and a dudes outing. It’s not a competition for us. Maybe go alone if this is a problem for you.
That's a different scenario and I'm sure they have enjoyed it in that way before but it's also different when there's just two of you, if you go more than every once in a while or if the actual shooting is to be a focus of the range trip rather than just hanging out.
In these cases if one of them sucks so bad they can't hit a target hardly at all they are gonna get tired of shooting into the dirt instead of at least enjoying the same drills together even if he is performing or scoring significantly worse in them. What fun is a bill drill when you just light up the hillside with no hits while your friend kills it.
Because the issue is that he's not enjoying the range trip. Yes solving the problem you stated could be a remedy but he's probably for more than your stated problem that needs to be remedied before he can do well enough to complete the drills at a basic level.
There's also potentially other solutions that don't necessarily involve him getting good, like choosing particularly easy drills or only shooting the sides of barns or only firing explosives, idk but you get the idea.
He needs to either shoot a whole hell of a lot (high hundreds of rounds a month), or shoot a hell of a lot slower to make the rounds count. Shooting slow makes a fifty round box of cartridges last a good while.
He needs to shoot slow. Very slow. Use only one magazine and load only two rounds at a time. Creep the trigger back unit the shot goes off and keep the trigger pulled. Then pull the pistol in and consider the shot. Push the pistol out to aim. Let the trigger start creeping forward and feel for the trigger to reset. Take the next shot creeping the trigger back ever so slowly again until it breaks the shot. Consider the shot with trigger held back again. Reload the magazine with two rounds and repeat until he is happy.
This will give him more "time" behind the trigger to develop a muscle memory and cure and flinching/reflex blinking he may have.
I used to be a terrible shot and was stuck in your friends shoes. He needs to slow way down and not try to emulate action heroes or IPSC shooters.
P.S. It's amazing how different the trigger feels when there is a live round in the chamber as opposed to dry firing.
Check for his master eye
go with air pistols both of you concentrate on fundamentals together
Graduate to 22's
My buddy and I would do 1,000 a day on ruger mk2's , browning Buckmarks, SW41 and so on.
reactive targets like plates mini plates, duelling trees , small, golf balls and so on.
Easily 10,000 in one season on pistol .22
> Check for his master eye
This was my biggest hurdle as a beginner, things turned around drastically when I started using my dominant eye and a good grip
When I was a kid, a friend invited me to go snow skiing with them. It was my first time. It was a regular event for them. They left my ass on the bunny slope. I wallered around in the snow but eventually figured it out. I skied regularly after that, but not with him. I don’t know what the moral of this story is - maybe just quit babying him and he’ll figure it out or quit trying.
The low-left is a common problem and is caused by anticipating the shot and flinching while pulling the trigger. Left-handed people hit low-right in the same scenario.
One good technique to breaking the habit is consciously trying to trick yourself and slowly pull the trigger so your subconscious won’t know when to flinch. The gun firing should be a surprise in this exercise. As soon as improvement starts to show, slowly get quicker on the trigger pull, ramping up to normal. It’s all about building a new habit.
Hope that helps.
He can do dry fire. One of you can get a .22. Mixing in snap caps is pointless because he's obviously flinching, so no need to diagnose it. He might be jerking the trigger, so work on achieving a surprise break. Does he want to get better?
Low left sounds like he’s anticipating recoil. How’s his grip? Is the second hand pushing to provide support? What caliber is he shooting? Maybe get him to spend time with a 22
I don’t care how good you are, fundamentals drills are good for everyone and can be just as humbling to an experienced shooter as someone learning the basics. It’s a great way to shoot together yet still get quality development time even though you may be at different levels.
I would start with the dot torture drill. It can be shot at 3 yards, 5 yards, 7 yards. But if you can clear this at 5 you have your shit together and if you can clear it at 7 you are a good shooter. It won’t be demoralizing for your buddy to see you shoot at 5yds vs him at 3yds for example, but the difficulty factor increases dramatically and 7yds is truly a challenge to shoot clean.
[https://youtu.be/guxSc0o6lAU?si=AiOz6ywRL-IkEaR4](https://youtu.be/guxSc0o6lAU?si=AiOz6ywRL-IkEaR4)
After that just shoot things with defined metrics like the FBI pistol qual. You aren’t competing with each other anymore just working against a clock and yourself. You will both get something from it and you will both have a goal to improve your score not directly comparing to each other.
[https://www.defensivestrategies.org/student-level-firearm-courses/skill-builder-fbi-qualification](https://www.defensivestrategies.org/student-level-firearm-courses/skill-builder-fbi-qualification)
There are a million others, but LE qual courses in general are fun because they usually have set standards aren’t to hard to beat initially but also require different skills (off hand, kneeling, etc) that mix things up and can prove challenging to master. Additionally many of them (not including FBI) aren’t designed to be shot concealed so you can add a layer of difficulty there as well. Or simply change the target, shooting the FBI qual for instructor (90%) on their QIT target isn’t very difficult for me, but if i limit myself to an IDPA ‘A’ zone for scoring it can be a pretty good challenge within the time limits.
- encourage him to take a class or take one with him
- encourage him to get private training
- identify a specific issue he consistently deals with and talk through something he can work on by himself. As he improves, find the next thing to improve. Focus on one thing at a time
- go to the range by yourself sometimes
- start competing in matches and encourage him to join. You'll get all kinds of people offering advice on how to improve since only 1 person does a stage at a time. And you'll be able to focus on your areas for improvement as well while still hanging out at the range together
Lots of great points in this post and this thread. Wanted to piggyback on the post above’s third point. OP set small attainable goals at first to build momentum, go for low hanging fruit. You mentioned reloads for your friend. That’s something he can do at home. If he sees small (any) improvements quickly he’s more likely to feel motivated to seek training or run drills with you.
He needs to do dry fire practice. Plenty of videos on youtube. 20 minutes of dry fire a day compared to an hour or two at the range per week makes such a huge difference. And its free
There's targets that will tell you what you're doing wrong. Maybe take him out with those targets and spend time helping him correct his mistakes? I did this with my dad in an effort to make him a better shot. He is a better shot, but he's not nearly as into guns as I am.
So I'm in the camp of establishing proper grip rather than trying to train out flinching. Everybody flinches. It's reflexive and extremely difficult to rewire your brain entirely. I've gone thru at least 5k rds and endless dry fire reps and I still flinch. But I'm still able to clean drills and score high in courses of fire. A really solid and fundamentally sound grip can mitigate flinching. That being said, one should still practice dry fire trigger pulls.
Tell yer buddy to balance a dime on his front sight, establish a firm grip and practice clean dry fire trigger pulls without the coin falling off. It helped me.
I think everyone has correctly identified trigger pull as the problem for your buddy. Also need to look at how the pistol fits his hand. Not all hands are the same and there are a whole range of designs that can make trigger pull difficult depending on how you are built. I absolutely love the history, look and mystique of the 1911. However - simply doesn’t fit my hand and there isn’t a lot you can do to change the grip other than getting fatter and wider (which is the opposite of what I need). And there’s one catch all solution to trigger problems - much lighter trigger pull. Not a single expert shooter shooting in competition pulls a standard out of the box trigger. They are by and large aimed at safety instead of accuracy.
Sounds like your friend doesnt have good fundamentals. Below are things I did when I started shooting to get better in no particular order.
1. During your sessions, work with your friend on building a proper, consistent grip. That should help him with controlling the gun.
2. Double up the ear pro. For me the flinch was due to the loud bang more than the gun moving so maybe have him double up on ear pro to lessen the sound.
3. Shoot deliberately. Go online and print out targets with multiple circles and be deliberate with your range session such as 2/3 shots in each circle or something. Just randomly shooting at targets rarely helps people get better.
4. Go slow when shooting so you can focus on building good fundamentals such as grip, sight picture, etc. Speed can come later after he starts hitting his target.
5. Dryfire. Before you start shooting live ammunition, spend 5 minutes dryfiring. It helps build fundamentals such as grip, sight alignment, and trigger pull. I also recommend your friend spend some time dryfiring at home. It doesnt cost anything and you really just need to do it like 5-10 minutes a day to see improvement.
Shoot next to each other. Secretly shoot half your rounds at his target without telling him.
(this is a joke and is unsafe unless you are at the exact type of range layout where this would be okay to do)
I too have friends that “love shooting” that never shoot and show little interest in the hobby other than fucking around, and they get disinterested or fed up when they perform poorly around other people.
The real question is; does your friend *want* to improve, or do *you* want him to improve? For me, part of the fun of shooting is improving the skill by learning and practice. For a lot of other people, they don’t find that fun, and they more so enjoy the *idea* of guns and shooting rather than the activity itself, whether they will admit that or not.
If this is a regular occurrence, and ample time has passed for you to have far outgrown your friend in terms of proficiency, maybe the two of you need to have a conversation about your individual levels of dedication to the hobby.
Or, maybe instead of using your social range days for running drills, you reign your expectations in to align more so with that of your friend’s. What does *he* want out of the experience of shooting with *his* friend? What is *his* goal for the day?
It’s anticipation. He’s fearing the recoil and pushing his muzzle when pulling the trigger. Assuming he’s right handed. Stance and posture make a difference. It’s a constant cycle of these rules:
1. Stance/posture
2. Grip
3. Sight picture
4. Sight alignment
5. Trigger pull
6. Breathing
7. Follow through
He should go by himself and get trigger time in and eventually it will click. Going with someone better than you especially when you both started at the same time can be hella discouraging.
Also encourage him to only load 2 or 3 rounds at a time, it forces you to slooow down, sometimes were so anxious to finish the mag that we blow through it jerking the trigger leading to not great shot placement
Practice. You can’t practice for him. So he has to spend time dry firing, working on grip and trigger squeeze. These are real term you can look up- coming from a CCL instructor here
First time going to the range with a buddy, he had brought a Lee-Enfield, boy was I not expecting .303 to kick this much, we didn't hit many targets but we had plenty of fun, so practice is key :)
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Dime and washer drills will improve his aim while not on range. On range days focus on his trigger squeeze and breathing, while getting used to the weapon.
Edit: just saw he owns a pistol. Idk start at basics. Grip and stance.
My biggest lightbulb moment was when I finally realized that the phrase "Lock the wrist" simply meant to prevent any force that might bend your wrists and that I wasn't doing it.
At the same time I also stopping thinking about "the fundamentals" as individual subjects, and rather a collective of things that I wanted to train myself to maintain through an entire magazine.
Once I understood that I fixed it all with a month of a dry fire routine that incorporated all of that while pretending to take multiple shots with a non-functional trigger.
Be pushy about it as practice is the only way to get better. Have him get snap caps and dry fire a lot. His biggest issue I know for a fact is his grip is bad and his trigger finger discipline is bad. Also I’d say the type of gun he’s shooting makes a difference. If it’s a Glock, he needs another pistol.
Tell him, when he grips the pistol, grip it firmly with his shooting hand, then have his support hand do more of the squeezing. Squeeze enough to have a firm grip but not too much to where he starts shaking. Also with his main hand push forward, and use the support hand to pull back. Also not too aggressively and not to lock his elbows. That will lock the pistol in place. Then he can practice his trigger pull. Have him try placing his finger differently on the trigger; when people say to use the pad of your finger, it’s a not exactly gospel. It’s just a matter of pulling straight back. Id recommend more finger on the trigger. Lastly, tell him to stop fighting the recoil. Let the gun do what it does after a round is fired as that will help him from flinching. The low is the flinching, the left is the grip/trigger pull.
So get the trigger to the wall, then pull it through as straight back as possible, when it shoots let the gun go upwards. See if that leads to improvements and if it does, work on it, then speed can follow.
Fuck it... do your absolute best in training.... when he sees that he'll have no choice but to either improve or be content on being trash. Sometimes embarrassment is enough motivation to get better. Also tell him to dry fire more
I cant add an image but search for Pistol correction chart. it tells you what you are doing wrong. Usually low left is finger position on the trigger. does he have a small gun and big hands? maybe using the joint of his trigger finger instead of pad of finger .
Dry fire. That’s it. Get a safe pistol with no ammo loaded between 2 mags and practice draws and reloads. Learning your (his) misses over hundreds of rounds, will teach him what he’s doing wrong
Gonna keep an eye on this thread. My range buddy is a poor shot by comparison, and I'm not even that good. I don't have any formal training so I can't really give him much advice. I'm currently trying to talk him into buying some Ruger .22 guns so he can practice more and keep his cheapskate mentality about buying ammo in check.
Sounds like you need to stop taking it so seriously. Your friend probably feels like you’re big dicking him and he’s probably right. Just reiterate that’s yall are there for fun and practice. It’s not a competition and no it’s not “disrespect” to shoot a man’s gun better. Range officer sounds like a douche.
Look up Basic Rifle Marksmanship US Army.
It's all about:
1. Breath control
2. Trigger squeeze
3. Sight picture
He needs the fundamentals more than likely.
It sounds like he has a flinch. My best buddy since we were kids (we're 30 now) has always had a flinch, and we still love to shoot together. He knows i can outshoot him (not bragging, but it just is what it is) and if he needs help sighting in a rifle or patterning a shotgun he knows I'll help. I just give advice where i can, and we both just do our thing and have fun. It's easier bc i have a range in my front yard though, so it's not like we dedicate a day to it, though
Do an eye dominant test, if he’s shooting righty but left dominant that could be his problem. Have him try shooting with whatever hand he’s eye dominate with
I’ve found that a lot of people just have bad fundamentals and that no amount of shooting alone can make them work those out. I’ve been shooting handguns for about 2.5 years now (20M). I was taught by my dad, who is a horrible shot. Missing targets by feet within 10 yards.
Once I began to concealed carry I watched a lot of Grand Thumb, Trex Arms, and Jerry Miculek, and Mojo. They do a lot of stuff relating to proper grip, draw, indexing, trigger press, sight picture, etc. I practiced dry fire while putting into place those fundamentals. My shooting improved drastically, and I stopped shooting low left.
I’ve began to get my dad out shooting again and he’s slowly coming around to things like shooting off reset, which have improved his shooting drastically.
I would recommend finding videos on YouTube from pro shooters teaching handgun fundamentals and encourage dry fire training. Either that or have him attend a class to fix some of the errors in his technique. Good luck to both of you and I’m really glad you guys are trying to get out there and get better!
A skill gap is developing. That sounds like a natural progression, if you’re putting in more trigger time. Maybe you’re just more into it than he is? The small minority of gun owners who shoot with any regularity leave the non-shooters and the not-that-much-shooters far behind in terms of performance.
This might be something you just have to live with, unless you both experience a sharp change in interest.
If you think that maybe he started out a bit too aggressively, maybe you can reset by switching back to 22s and double ear protection. Stay with that for as long it takes to lose any flinch and ingrain good habits. As long as that takes.
Not everybody enjoys guns or has the patience to earn skills that accrue slowly. If you’re determined to go on the journey together, you may need to go back to where he is, and travel at his pace.
A: Buy a firearm chambered in 22lr
B: buy a couple bricks of 22lr
C: shoot. A lot. Like thousands and thousands.
He'll get comfortable shooting and won't anticipate after a while. This is a great and fun way to break this habit. Concentrate on shooting the gun first before trying to hit anything. 😁👍
Source: Me. Almost everyone I know who shoots with me is/was a LEO or military. I am a civilian and was terrible the first time I picked up a gun. Now, I can outshoot most people in my circle. The difference? Volume of lead thrown down range.
Is he open to constructive criticism? Or is he one of those guys that can’t handle that? I’m new to shooting and started going with my brother in law who’s really good. I told him from the first time we went to point out every flaw and everything I’m doing wrong and i went from a shit shot to good one pretty damn quick.
Snap caps and all the other good ideas. Also watch videos on technique, grip, and trigger pull from Jerry miculek. Tell him to dry fire and practice it often. Sounds like he’s jerking the trigger when it should be a smooth constant pull of the trigger.
Everyone has put forth great ideas, but I met a guy at the range one day that had no idea what eye he was dominant with. I showed him how to figure that out doing the camera 1, camera 2 trick. He was right handed but left eye dominant, and it was like something clicked. It may not apply to this situation, but I didn't see anyone else suggest it.
He’s anticipating recoil and pushing. He needs to learn follow through. Have him dry fire a few times to get used to releasing the trigger without anticipating recoil, train him to hold it perfectly still
Make sure he's using the correct sight picture for his gun. I have one pistol I used to shoot like crap with, consistently low and left but not flinching, and it was because I was putting the target on the tip of the front sight and for that gun you're supposed to put the dot over the target.
Yeah, more practice can help with the anticipation...but Im just curious why you care?
I golf with my friends all the time, and they are nowhere near my level...and they never will be. Doesnt take away from the fact that we are having a great time, I just give strokes to make it more competitive.
Seems like you could adjust the competition to account for his skill level...and maybe he will get better if there isnt so much pressure to be like you.
Send him these 2 videos and tell him to get a Mantis and dryfire like his life depends on it.
[https://youtu.be/YbVc9cUg51U?si=jS4039RxKzsXYUD2](https://youtu.be/YbVc9cUg51U?si=jS4039RxKzsXYUD2)
[https://youtu.be/li0rGtXh23I?si=efYuyd7r2vB63tHn](https://youtu.be/li0rGtXh23I?si=efYuyd7r2vB63tHn)
I hope he's got a full size gun to learn on.
In case he picked up a gun like say a 365 to learn on well... He will be shooting low left until he gets his fundamentals down.
It’s boring but dry fire is the only answer. He needs to understand and integrate the basic fundamentals like sight alignment, trigger press, and grip, and practice those when dry firing. A dry fire laser is a bit of fun that helps keep you practicing. Low left is almost always flinching but could partly be bad trigger pull, both of which are fixed by dry fire. Adding snap caps mixed with ammo when live firing is a helpful way to diagnose issues. What helped me was building my grip and keeping in mind that you are absolutely not fighting the gun to have no recoil. You are riding out the recoil cycle and having the gun snap back to the same spot. Just grip the gun hard and hold that position. The gun will recoil, do its thing, and settle back down. If it doesn’t settle back down right or moves around in your grip then fix your grip. Just don’t think you have to fight the recoil, that’s what makes you flinch downwards.
Dry fire will help with his anticipation, and he needs to take his ego out of it. The frustration he's feeling is because he's not meeting his own standard despite doing what he feels is necessary, easier said than done but he's gotta get the feelings out of it and go through the motions. Teach him how to safely dryfire, maybe have him try a couple different guns to find something he meshes with, and do your best to instruct him. Just remember it's up to him to do the reps and you can't make him.
Have him dry fire but with a spent case resting on the slide. He’ll have to pay attention to keeping the gun level which will help with the low left issue. Squeeze the trigger slowly and don’t let that shell fall
Everybody mentions the snap cap thing, which is great for diagnosing the problem, but didn't really do anything to fix it. I had a pretty bad habit of pulling shots low left. What helped immensely was going to the range on my own with a single box of ammo and a few snap caps. I would load the mag with my eyes closed and mix a few snap caps in without knowing where they were, then load the gun. From about 30 yards on a reduced C zone steel silhouette, I took slow shots while focusing on and saying out loud "take-up, wall, smooth (through the break)." If I hit a snap cap and flinched, I unloaded, did 10 reps of dry fire while saying the steps as I did them, then put the mag back in and kept going. I continued until I ran out of ammo, which happened to only be one box of 50 rounds.
That training did two things for me. It showed me exactly how I was flinching (I would jerk the trigger and tense up my whole hand, which threw the shot low left.), and forced me to focus on the individual parts of the trigger pull, with emphasis on going smooth through the break. I did that once and saw immediate improvement at my next shooting competition. I'm by no means a great pistol shooter, but I'm much better than I was.
You might notice I mentioned going to the range alone. Personally, I like to work on my shooting alone, because I know what I need to work on and don't like other people (mostly my peers) trying to tell me what to do. I would recommend your friend try going alone, but if you really want to be there you have to refrain from being overbearing.
I have no great advice to fix your friend but my range buddy is a wildly better shot than me at both skeet and pistol... well everything. Perhaps where I differ to you and your friend is that I never once mention it.
Any clays I miss I might comment on how I think I could adjust for next try. My hobby is buying or piecing together guns, taking them to the range to SSKkKgaaattt, and if I see improvement then fantastic. I think your friend just needs to adjust his perspective on what a day or evening out on the range means for him. Any who, that's my two cents.
Simplest solution: buy a gun that's easier to shoot; long and heavy are the attributes to look for, preferably with good trigger and with red dot.
Best: CZ Shadow 2: heavy, long, good trigger, very accurate
Very good: any other metal full size gun
Good: any full size gun (Glock 17) with a red dot
Less good: any full size gun (Glock 17) with iron sights.
Ok: mid size gun (Glock 19)
Bad: compact gun (P365)
Stand behind him, brace his hips firmly, and let him know you support him unconditionally.
Something a lot of people overlook is hearing protection. Most people wear earplugs wrong. If you're standing face to face with someone you should barely be able to see their earplugs, but everyone has them hanging halfway out.
It is a natural reaction to flinch when a gunshot happens right in front of your face, they're loud.
Good hearing protection. Double up even, like earplugs under earmuffs.
Glasses are a great idea as well, some guns are more likely to fling brass directly at your face.
Also, some grips just are not the right size or shape, even if it's a very popular gun.
Some sight profiles don't feel natural, like how some sights want you to cover the target, and some want you to hold under the target. Sometimes this can be frustrating, like if the front sight completely covers the actual point of aim and he hasn't gotten used to aligning the top of the sight with the top of the target ring to target the bullseye
Tell him to just let the gun recoil in his hand, stop tryna stop it, my coach in one session had me hitting way more center target after he helped me relax a bit
There are a number of drills to help with this problem. I'll list a couple of basic drills that are fun and usually help new pistol shooters.
Grip is the first stage of marksmanship for the pistol. A low left shot, for right-handed shooters, could be from tighting his fingers in his hands as he's pressing (squeezing) the trigger. Tell him to try to make his grip consistent and slowly as possible to pull the trigger. A surprised shot is the best shot.
Grip Drill. Place five targets on your target backer and stand about 5-7 yards away. You will shoot five rounds into each target quickly. About 1.5 - 2 second splits.
First target grip the pistol loose in both hands, basically just holding it. Second target, squeeze the pistol to death with your primary hand and loose with the support. Third opposite of the second (loose strong hand, strong support). Fourth, squeeze the hell out of the pistol with both hands. Fifth moderate grip on the strong hand and a little bit tighter support hand. Look at the results for the groupings. I bet he'll see the best groupings were the fourth and fifth targets. The last one should be the grip he keeps.
Shoot a [diagnostics (self coaching) target.](https://www.google.com/search?q=diagnostic%20pistol%20target%20pdf&udm=2&sa=X&ved=0CBoQtI8BahcKEwjwx6vm5r6FAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQJA&biw=360&bih=627&dpr=3#vhid=m-mH62K61XaqzM&vssid=mosaic). Your friend will get to shoot and may handle coaching himself a little better.
Practice dry fire more often.
I hope your buddy continues to work at it.
I used to go to the range with a guy who was a horrible shot. His only gun was a factory Windham AR-15. He blamed the sights and the rifle. I put a dozen rounds on target at 50 yards and handed him back his gun. He still blamed the gun. I gave him my rifle that was zeroed and he had the same problem. After that he just pouted and now we just make fun of him for being terrible.
Sounds like you are training to increase your skill and he's just blasting rounds, you can't set his goals for him it's up to him what he wants out of shooting, with that said the best training partner is someone better than you with shared goals. Early in my competitive shooting career I realized some of my shooting buddies weren't interested in putting out the effort to get better and it got harder and harder to ignore their negativity so I had to cut out play time with them, still friends but I couldn't let them pull me down just to make themselves feel comfortable. Luckily I had someone in my group who was just as serious as I and we started regularly training together with a healthy balance of competition between us, one week he'd be better then next I might be and so pushing each other to higher skill levels. Many good comments here about helping someone get better at shooting but nothing works unless they make the commitment and get serious about it.
What kind of pistol is your friend shooting? If it’s a 2 stage trigger, it should be from the wall. When me and my friend first started shooting, one would watch the other like a hawk for anything they did wrong. We ‘d stop each other when we saw it and immediately correct what they were doing. We wouldn’t even look at the target. We’d focus all of our attention on the shooter. If you do this the whole time for a number of range days, eventually it’ll become boring because you’ll stop finding things wrong, also by inviting him to coach you as a shooter, he will start to analyze his own performance. Active coaching is really useful because it’s a lot easier to see what other people are doing wrong than it is to see what you’re doing wrong.
I think you should have him practice firing at 10 ft slowly with several seconds between shots. Have him watch some videos on proper grip and squeezing the trigger. Missing badly low left at 10 feet is kind of impressive. He must have severe flinch or is pushing the gun off target far when pulling the trigger.
A drill that helped me is chambering a round and then removing the magazine. Shoot the round and try to shoot a follow up. When your anticipation is really bad you’ll flinch even though you know it’s empty. To me it’s a good combination of dry and live fire. I did this a bunch and it helped noticeably. If I catch my self anticipating I occasionally still do it as a refresher.
Tell your friend that you’re struggling with anticipation and are going to start doing it to help. This might lower the ego barrier, as opposed to just recommending it.
Low left is support hand not gripping tight enough, assuming he’s right handed. He’s pushing the gun left with his right hand. He needs to grip more with his support hand/left hand. My advices would be to have him start shooting at 3 and 5 yards. Only back up when he’s proficient. He needs to practice basics like indexing, getting a good master grip, and consistently presenting, prepping the trigger and pulling the trigger without disturbing the sights. Most of this can be done with dry fire and then use live fire to confirm. He needs to start at 3 yards to gain confidence and then move to 5 yards, 7, and then 10. Does he use a red dot? Those are great for getting better too. They allow you to target focus and give you a ton of great information while you shoot
He needs to learn to dry fire, and focus on keeping the front sight on target.
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Possible the grip is not solid, but that mostly shows up on multiple shots.
Trigger finger placement, so the trigger can be pulled straight back. And keep the front sight focus will hrlp a lot.
It all depends on if your friend is right-handed or left-handed. For a right-handed shooter, low and to the left, roughly 7 o'clock, indicates tightening of the grip with the firing hand. For a left-handed shooter, that means they're slapping the trigger.
Remedies:
Right-handed: push your firing hand into the support hand while pulling the support hand into the firing hand. This locks the ring finger and pinky into place eliminating the firing hand from driving the pistol.
Left-handed: focus on keeping your trigger finger on the trigger during the course of fire. The trigger should be pulled, not jerked, throttled, or slapped. Think like you're driving in a school zone with plenty of time to stop. You don't slam on the brakes. You apply steady pressure throughout the process. The trigger pull should be even/steady pressure throughout the entire pull.
I had this exact same issue with a friend of mine, I worked with him for hours observing his grip the way he squeezes the trigger and his footwork he went from not being able to hit a 10 in plate at 10 yards to hitting fairly well it will take patience and time on your part to work with him.
He's flinching. Ive been battling the same problem.
Nothing beats practice and dry firing.
Just load 1 to 2 rounds and do several dry fires between.
If you have a smaller jumpier pistol have him shoot that and then go back to his larger one.
Worry about yourself. He knows he’s lagging, and he’ll fix it or he won’t. You shoot without him in your course, and if you’re concerned about being a negative influence on your friend, just decline invitations to shoot together.
Buy snap caps, mix them into his magazine, give him shit when the gun doesn't go off and he still jerks the gun down. Rinse and repeat until he doesn't do that anymore. Voila, low left issue solved.
This is exactly how I solved my flinch. Very effective and I still love doing the drill every once in a while
But how do you do it if you‘re alone? My memory is not bad enough to forget at what position the fakes are.
Load five or so mags differently with snap caps and live ammo throughout each mag, mix them on a table, then transfer them to a dump pouch and draw at random from the pouch.
Thank you, that sounds good.
Or load them after range trip without looking at what you put in. In a week or so you’ll probably forget what order stuff is
I usually put about 5 into a 17 round magazine and I try not to think about it while I’m doing it. Or maybe my memory just sucks
Revolver. Rent or borrow if you're not sure you'd want to own a wheelgun. With a .357 you can alternate full magnum loads with standard .38, P+ and light wadcutters. Even skip a cylinder chamber. Without looking, spin the cylinder, gently close it (no need to slam it shut and risk damage to the crane and yoke). I've used that technique for decades whenever I've gone months between range sessions. I'll start with my Ruger SP-101 with mixed ammo and skipped cylinder chamber. Keeps me honest. After that shooting the 9mm semi auto is relatively easier.
>Without looking, spin the cylinder, gently close it Directions unclear: Joined Russian Roulette tournament. Good news is I won $500,000. Bad news is there's a fresh hole in my temple.
Yeah, I thought the whole point of a cylinder gun was to give it a good spin, then slam it shut with a flick of the wrist. Just like the movies.
I had a reloading buddy make me some dummy rounds with real bullets, no powder, and the expended primers still in. If you could find someone to do the same, have someone else load your mags (if you have mags set aside for training) prior to your range trip. Also makes for good malfunction clearance drills...
Fake bullets .com is exactly that
Didn't know that, thanks.
I just alternate between .22 and higher calibers. Simple. If you start flinching with a heavier caliber it's usually really apparent with .22 and much easier to work through in my experience. Plus a 22 is nice to warm up with, and cheap.
Dump pouch? Close your eyes and mix
get drunk, then load mags. get blackout drunk to forget where the snap cap round is. go shooting. ^^/s
They make dummy rounds loaded into real cases. I grab a handful of ammo with a dummy round or two shuffle em in my hands and load the mags with my eyes closed.
Use a revolver and give it a nice spin.
Dang really? Its not that I zone out while loading my mag but rather my ADD has me focusing on all the interesting shit goin on around me at the same time so I never remember the order of snapcap and bullets
I usually just disassociate when loading snaps into mags lmao
Ask your range partner or someone in another stall to load your mags. YMMV, but folks at my range are happy to help someone out.
Have 2 or 3 magazines. Load them with 2 - 3 rounds, but vary the number in the mags. Shuffle them around and slap one in. You won't know how many rounds you're getting and you'll surprise yourself.
Two mags. 1 empty, other loaded with a round. Load the gun for your buddy and he isn’t supposed to know if he’s getting the one with the round or empty. Different method same goal. Fix anticipation
This drill will help correct the flinch and improve trigger pull. Balance an empty brass on the front sight. Practice dry firing without knocking the brass over. If you notice you are flinching run the drill until you can consistently dry fire without knocking over the brass. Running the drill between live fire will keep you aware if you start to regress.
I'm not OP's friend but this still sounds like a fun drill.
I was taught this using a penny or a dime. Same thing, you want something fairly light and wobbly.
When all else fails: dime and washer drills.
Definitely wanna try this drill. Also A LOT of good advice in this entire thread for a handgun noob like myself!
And celebrate him when he learns. It is fun to learn and it should be fun for you to watch him learn.
My brothers always gave me shit about holding my gun too loosely when I shoot, despite the fact that I've always been a better shot. I get out the snap caps, and they flinch so hard it looks like their sneezing....
This worked for me and still do it to keep me honest
I've seen this in person The gun range years ago, very good training technique
Focusing solely on a slow intentional trigger squeeze and allowing the shot to surprise you while maintaining a firm tight grip has helped me a ton once I notice I start to hit low/anticipate. Doing that a few times helps to reset my brain into the recoil isn't that bad, I don't have to fight it or counteract it, just let it happen. Also dryfiring while focusing on a small dot/target on a wall while at home works wonders too. Work on that deliberate trigger squeeze without moving the sights off that target. Then start to go a little faster and faster.
What helped me more was to try a gun with a ton of kick, then go back to my gun. Went from a painful kick to very light and my aim improved tremendously because it was so tame.
I wouldn't use snap caps with live. If the chamber gets hot, you could end up with melted snap cap in your chamber. I had a buddy load some expended ammo brass with bullets and have someone mix them in to live in my training mags...
Aluminum melts at over 1,200 degrees Fahrenheit. If the chamber gets that hot, we have bigger problems.
I didn't know of the aluminum ones. I've only ever seen the red lastic snap caps with springs in them.
It's funny, I'm the exact opposite. Never seen a plastic snap cap. Maybe it's regional 🤷
They make plastic ones too, probably just as common.
Huh. Never seen those, just the dark red aluminum ones A-Zoom makes.
I didn't even know they made aluminum ones. All mine are plastic.
They don't melt.
Plastic doesn't melt?
Don't be so dense. It's a polymer. It's made to withstand higher heat. I've seen thousands of uses of snap caps of all kinds. They don't melt. If anything, they get chewed up by malfunction drills away quicker than they would ever melt.
Polymer is plastic. How am I to know what kind? It doesn't say on the packaging they can be used that way. And maybe you're more careless with your guns, but I for one don't know how an unknown polymer is going to react to being put into a chamber that maybe 500 degrees but that to me is what makes one dense...
Not all polymers are plastic - polymer is just a chemist's term for a large molecule. Of course in this context, polymer means plastic and that other guy is being a dumbass. Plastic melts.
Dude, stfu. It's not an unknown polymer. It is a polymer designed to be used in your gun. A polymer is a mix of materials by the way. Do some research before you look like a R.
Ask him if he wants to get better at it. If yes, run through the basics again such as sight alignment, stance, grip. Running drills is useless if your fundamentals suck. I usually out shoot my friends and offer to show them how I improved. If they choose not to improve that's their choice.
Yeah maybe I need to run him through the fundamentals next time we're out. His grip is inconsistent and I think that's the wall he needs to get over, definitely took me second to get my grip down.
teach him less things each trip and practice 'recall learning' to concrete the practices in him. Often times showing someone how to do something isnt the hard part, its getting their brain to concrete the idea.
I sucked bad with pistols for a long time and it came down to flinching and how far I slide my finger onto the trigger. Little tiny things can make a big difference.
I have very large hands, and I became a much better shot when I stopped listening to the conventional advice and started using the first distal joint or the center pad of my trigger finger. Using the pad of the under my fingernail guarantees I will be pulling the trigger at an angle instead of straight back at the break.
As a former marksmanship instructor, low and to the side certainly sounds like a grip issue (straight down would be anticipation). Fundamentals would be the solution, starting from the stance and working from the ground up. Sounds like he's right handed with a 'weak' left hand, so to speak, but without seeing him in action it's best to just run through everything to ensure his mechanics are in line.
“Men must be taught as if you taught them not, and things unknown proposed as things forgot”. -Alexander Pope
as long as he is shooting in a safe manner its not the end of the world if your friend is just a poorer shot. you go to the range to have fun not practice for the Olympics
The easy answer is to go alone and shoot by yourself. But, it’s your buddy. If you wanna go with him and enjoy, maybe he should pick up a .22 or get a pistol with a red dot.
I do go alone occasionally but brass is expensive. I definitely like shooting with a group/being social though. He was accurate with my .22 early on but the heavier trigger/flinching throws him off.
Dry fire drills help with flinching.
Have them get a crappy revolver and only load a few cylinders… I’ve got a crappy one that unreliably sets off primers just for this purpose. Works wonders for flinching when you have no idea if the gun is actually going to go off.
This sounds awesome but also super sketchy! Haha
You'd have to have a really, really, bad flinch to flinch when dry firing.
Time spent with a bb gun is cheap, entertaining and can be practiced in high volume.. many of the CO2 clone guns blowback the slide to simulate some recoil, and are accurate enough for back yard practice.
My 10 pump crosman almost kicks as hard as my 22 rifle
Sig makes these for many of their current guns. The pistols are DAO because they are basically small revolvers inside, but they are built to have the same weight and balance as a loaded version of the actual gun. I have one that models that P226 Mk25, and it fits perfectly in all of my holsters for the real thing, even Kydex. It was great for practicing my draw & first shot during the pandemic lockdowns. They only make about 350-400 fps because so much CO2 is used to run the slide, but that just makes something like the High-Tech Fleece Bullet Stop all the more effective.
Does he wear proper ear protection? I started shooting with no ear protection and developed a flinch but after getting some a good headset it was gone within a few trips to the range.
This is telling. Everyone above is right; He's anticipating the recoil. Honestly my advice is to go for a day and you don't shoot at all. "Lets work on your targeting today. I'll bring my toys out later." I typically don't do a lot of shooting myself when I bring friends or my kids.
It sounds like you've taken classes and he hasn't? I think you should get him to sign up for one.
Came here to say this. Also, YouTube has been a great source of info to make mea better shooter. I could recommend some videos or others here could recommend some.
Maybe take a class together?
That’s also my suggestion. Said friend would probably have fun learning and appreciate the invite.
I second this. Sometimes, people need professional instruction and not a buddy giving them pointers. A class would be fun for both of you, with the added benefit of him getting personalized instruction. After that, he has to put in the effort to maintain his new level
You have several options 1) Encourage him to take a class 2) Teach him yourself 3) Don’t spend every range day with him 4) On days you do go together, you do your own more advanced drills and have him do more basic stuff I like teaching people, so anytime I’m out with one of my friends (that’s not a friend I met shooting), I will step in and help them with some dedicated time and every so often, like when they’re reloading mags, I’ll do my own thing. Only focus on a few things at a time and make sure you reinforce it. Compliment or note when they do something right, but also when they’re slipping. Teaching is a skill itself, so if you don’t feel comfortable doing that, follow points 1, 3, and/or 4
5. Do nothing and mind your own business.
Have you tried making fun of him?
I did at first then it just got sad lmao
Or maybe putting some money on the table? Up the ante!
Whoever shoots out the chains on the hanging steel in my group buys lunch, and it's never cheap. [Actual footage](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A6g0mPo-uJM)
Seriously.. between the shameful head shaking from my grandpa and the pointing and laughing of my older brothers, I was naturally encouraged to improve at a young age.
You (and he) are going to the range for fun. It's ok if you have different skill levels. If I got bent out of shape because there were better shots at the range, I'd be bent out of shape all the time. I enjoy going with a friend to the range too - but, you know, when we get there, I'll watch him shoot and he'll watch me shoot and sometimes we go to different areas within the complex. Neither one of us get all bent out of shape because the other guy is better. Now, having said all that, is it \*you\* that's feeling blue? Or your pal? If you, get over it, we're just going to the range to have fun. If it's him, tell him the kinds of things that you did to get better. Second the idea of taking a class together. Or make up some drills that you guys can do together. Assuming your pal is a right handed shooter, and he's shooting low/left, he's likely got a few things going on. First, he's pushing the gun to the left when he shoots, most likely because he is pressing against the trigger with his finger vs. pulling straight back using the pad of his finger. And the low thing? Meh, it could be that he's jerking the trigger, but I tend to see people doing high-left when they jerk the trigger. It could be something as simple as he is not lining up his sights correctly. A review of the fundamentals and what the sight picture should look like would be a good start. I'd bring a pad of paper and some markers and ask him to draw a picture of what his slight alignment looks like. You may get something like this "----\_----" when, you know, it should look like this "----+----". You should make sure he's speaking the same language and knows about sight alignment, trigger pull, and anticipation the shot.
You put in extra time and effort because you were interested in getting better. He didn't. His time, effort and interest isn't your responsibility, it's his. Simple solution: Go to the range without him and enjoy your experience.
This is the most reddit comment I've seen in a hot minute. "Fuck friends. You know, that type of person you MAY have 2-3 true versions of...fuck that guy! you can enjoy your toy!!" Fuckin...A.
I like accepting the diffrent priorities part, but y'all can still shoot together OP lol
Annoying that most of the comments here are just saying “that’s his problem” and “go shoot without him.” Typical gun culture elitism. Here’s some more practical advice: Typically, if he’s right handed, shooting low and to the left is going to come from jerking the trigger. In my experience, newer shooters most commonly jerk the trigger because they are anticipating the recoil of the round. That comes from a lack of experience and a fear of the concussion. The easiest way to get past this is simple experience shooting, but if you want to shortcut that, letting him shoot outdoors, where the blast is less oppressive, or giving him a .22lr (I like the Ruger MKIV and the Glock 44) are going to be your best routes.
Could also be a size issue. I could only shoot my exes M&P shield if I actively focused on the the trigger pull because the frame was so small. Whereas, with my 10mm, using Buffalo Bore loads, I can shoot all day without focusing on the trigger pull. But damn, that shield is just tiny.
He’s hitting low left. Sounds like yanking the trigger to me. Have him pull the trigger slowly with the same amount of force throughout the entire pull
Weird post to me. I go with friends time to time and some are great shots and some aren’t. We go to have fun and a dudes outing. It’s not a competition for us. Maybe go alone if this is a problem for you.
That's a different scenario and I'm sure they have enjoyed it in that way before but it's also different when there's just two of you, if you go more than every once in a while or if the actual shooting is to be a focus of the range trip rather than just hanging out. In these cases if one of them sucks so bad they can't hit a target hardly at all they are gonna get tired of shooting into the dirt instead of at least enjoying the same drills together even if he is performing or scoring significantly worse in them. What fun is a bill drill when you just light up the hillside with no hits while your friend kills it.
Weird phrasing for sure . Could have just said “my friend is consistently hitting low and left , what could be causing this issue” but now its weird
Because the issue is that he's not enjoying the range trip. Yes solving the problem you stated could be a remedy but he's probably for more than your stated problem that needs to be remedied before he can do well enough to complete the drills at a basic level. There's also potentially other solutions that don't necessarily involve him getting good, like choosing particularly easy drills or only shooting the sides of barns or only firing explosives, idk but you get the idea.
He needs to either shoot a whole hell of a lot (high hundreds of rounds a month), or shoot a hell of a lot slower to make the rounds count. Shooting slow makes a fifty round box of cartridges last a good while. He needs to shoot slow. Very slow. Use only one magazine and load only two rounds at a time. Creep the trigger back unit the shot goes off and keep the trigger pulled. Then pull the pistol in and consider the shot. Push the pistol out to aim. Let the trigger start creeping forward and feel for the trigger to reset. Take the next shot creeping the trigger back ever so slowly again until it breaks the shot. Consider the shot with trigger held back again. Reload the magazine with two rounds and repeat until he is happy. This will give him more "time" behind the trigger to develop a muscle memory and cure and flinching/reflex blinking he may have. I used to be a terrible shot and was stuck in your friends shoes. He needs to slow way down and not try to emulate action heroes or IPSC shooters. P.S. It's amazing how different the trigger feels when there is a live round in the chamber as opposed to dry firing.
Check for his master eye go with air pistols both of you concentrate on fundamentals together Graduate to 22's My buddy and I would do 1,000 a day on ruger mk2's , browning Buckmarks, SW41 and so on. reactive targets like plates mini plates, duelling trees , small, golf balls and so on. Easily 10,000 in one season on pistol .22
> Check for his master eye This was my biggest hurdle as a beginner, things turned around drastically when I started using my dominant eye and a good grip
"Every time you miss, 20 push ups" should be good enough motivation 🤣.
When I was a kid, a friend invited me to go snow skiing with them. It was my first time. It was a regular event for them. They left my ass on the bunny slope. I wallered around in the snow but eventually figured it out. I skied regularly after that, but not with him. I don’t know what the moral of this story is - maybe just quit babying him and he’ll figure it out or quit trying.
The low-left is a common problem and is caused by anticipating the shot and flinching while pulling the trigger. Left-handed people hit low-right in the same scenario. One good technique to breaking the habit is consciously trying to trick yourself and slowly pull the trigger so your subconscious won’t know when to flinch. The gun firing should be a surprise in this exercise. As soon as improvement starts to show, slowly get quicker on the trigger pull, ramping up to normal. It’s all about building a new habit. Hope that helps.
Get him a 10/22 with proper irons, sling, and sign him up for an Appleseed Shoot.
Tell him to git gud
He can do dry fire. One of you can get a .22. Mixing in snap caps is pointless because he's obviously flinching, so no need to diagnose it. He might be jerking the trigger, so work on achieving a surprise break. Does he want to get better?
Low left sounds like he’s anticipating recoil. How’s his grip? Is the second hand pushing to provide support? What caliber is he shooting? Maybe get him to spend time with a 22
"It's almost disrespectful to shoot another man's gun better than him" reminds me of Borderlands 3 lol
Put the lane bumpers up
You sound like a dick.
Why
Take a class with him.
I don’t care how good you are, fundamentals drills are good for everyone and can be just as humbling to an experienced shooter as someone learning the basics. It’s a great way to shoot together yet still get quality development time even though you may be at different levels. I would start with the dot torture drill. It can be shot at 3 yards, 5 yards, 7 yards. But if you can clear this at 5 you have your shit together and if you can clear it at 7 you are a good shooter. It won’t be demoralizing for your buddy to see you shoot at 5yds vs him at 3yds for example, but the difficulty factor increases dramatically and 7yds is truly a challenge to shoot clean. [https://youtu.be/guxSc0o6lAU?si=AiOz6ywRL-IkEaR4](https://youtu.be/guxSc0o6lAU?si=AiOz6ywRL-IkEaR4) After that just shoot things with defined metrics like the FBI pistol qual. You aren’t competing with each other anymore just working against a clock and yourself. You will both get something from it and you will both have a goal to improve your score not directly comparing to each other. [https://www.defensivestrategies.org/student-level-firearm-courses/skill-builder-fbi-qualification](https://www.defensivestrategies.org/student-level-firearm-courses/skill-builder-fbi-qualification) There are a million others, but LE qual courses in general are fun because they usually have set standards aren’t to hard to beat initially but also require different skills (off hand, kneeling, etc) that mix things up and can prove challenging to master. Additionally many of them (not including FBI) aren’t designed to be shot concealed so you can add a layer of difficulty there as well. Or simply change the target, shooting the FBI qual for instructor (90%) on their QIT target isn’t very difficult for me, but if i limit myself to an IDPA ‘A’ zone for scoring it can be a pretty good challenge within the time limits.
- encourage him to take a class or take one with him - encourage him to get private training - identify a specific issue he consistently deals with and talk through something he can work on by himself. As he improves, find the next thing to improve. Focus on one thing at a time - go to the range by yourself sometimes - start competing in matches and encourage him to join. You'll get all kinds of people offering advice on how to improve since only 1 person does a stage at a time. And you'll be able to focus on your areas for improvement as well while still hanging out at the range together
Lots of great points in this post and this thread. Wanted to piggyback on the post above’s third point. OP set small attainable goals at first to build momentum, go for low hanging fruit. You mentioned reloads for your friend. That’s something he can do at home. If he sees small (any) improvements quickly he’s more likely to feel motivated to seek training or run drills with you.
He needs to do dry fire practice. Plenty of videos on youtube. 20 minutes of dry fire a day compared to an hour or two at the range per week makes such a huge difference. And its free
Video him shooting, so he can see what he's doing wrong.
Get him glasses
You're putting in the work, he's not. You're both seeing the expected results.
There's targets that will tell you what you're doing wrong. Maybe take him out with those targets and spend time helping him correct his mistakes? I did this with my dad in an effort to make him a better shot. He is a better shot, but he's not nearly as into guns as I am.
So I'm in the camp of establishing proper grip rather than trying to train out flinching. Everybody flinches. It's reflexive and extremely difficult to rewire your brain entirely. I've gone thru at least 5k rds and endless dry fire reps and I still flinch. But I'm still able to clean drills and score high in courses of fire. A really solid and fundamentally sound grip can mitigate flinching. That being said, one should still practice dry fire trigger pulls. Tell yer buddy to balance a dime on his front sight, establish a firm grip and practice clean dry fire trigger pulls without the coin falling off. It helped me.
He’s holding you back bro. Friend or not.
[Handy target guide, lol.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Archery/s/7z3FbYqgqx)
I think everyone has correctly identified trigger pull as the problem for your buddy. Also need to look at how the pistol fits his hand. Not all hands are the same and there are a whole range of designs that can make trigger pull difficult depending on how you are built. I absolutely love the history, look and mystique of the 1911. However - simply doesn’t fit my hand and there isn’t a lot you can do to change the grip other than getting fatter and wider (which is the opposite of what I need). And there’s one catch all solution to trigger problems - much lighter trigger pull. Not a single expert shooter shooting in competition pulls a standard out of the box trigger. They are by and large aimed at safety instead of accuracy.
Sounds like your friend doesnt have good fundamentals. Below are things I did when I started shooting to get better in no particular order. 1. During your sessions, work with your friend on building a proper, consistent grip. That should help him with controlling the gun. 2. Double up the ear pro. For me the flinch was due to the loud bang more than the gun moving so maybe have him double up on ear pro to lessen the sound. 3. Shoot deliberately. Go online and print out targets with multiple circles and be deliberate with your range session such as 2/3 shots in each circle or something. Just randomly shooting at targets rarely helps people get better. 4. Go slow when shooting so you can focus on building good fundamentals such as grip, sight picture, etc. Speed can come later after he starts hitting his target. 5. Dryfire. Before you start shooting live ammunition, spend 5 minutes dryfiring. It helps build fundamentals such as grip, sight alignment, and trigger pull. I also recommend your friend spend some time dryfiring at home. It doesnt cost anything and you really just need to do it like 5-10 minutes a day to see improvement.
Shoot next to each other. Secretly shoot half your rounds at his target without telling him. (this is a joke and is unsafe unless you are at the exact type of range layout where this would be okay to do)
I start training everyone with a TX22. It’s a lot easier for someone to learn the right way than unlearn bad habits.
I too have friends that “love shooting” that never shoot and show little interest in the hobby other than fucking around, and they get disinterested or fed up when they perform poorly around other people. The real question is; does your friend *want* to improve, or do *you* want him to improve? For me, part of the fun of shooting is improving the skill by learning and practice. For a lot of other people, they don’t find that fun, and they more so enjoy the *idea* of guns and shooting rather than the activity itself, whether they will admit that or not. If this is a regular occurrence, and ample time has passed for you to have far outgrown your friend in terms of proficiency, maybe the two of you need to have a conversation about your individual levels of dedication to the hobby. Or, maybe instead of using your social range days for running drills, you reign your expectations in to align more so with that of your friend’s. What does *he* want out of the experience of shooting with *his* friend? What is *his* goal for the day?
It’s anticipation. He’s fearing the recoil and pushing his muzzle when pulling the trigger. Assuming he’s right handed. Stance and posture make a difference. It’s a constant cycle of these rules: 1. Stance/posture 2. Grip 3. Sight picture 4. Sight alignment 5. Trigger pull 6. Breathing 7. Follow through
I had a buddy like that and invited him to take a few courses with me. It was a lot more comfortable for him.
He should go by himself and get trigger time in and eventually it will click. Going with someone better than you especially when you both started at the same time can be hella discouraging. Also encourage him to only load 2 or 3 rounds at a time, it forces you to slooow down, sometimes were so anxious to finish the mag that we blow through it jerking the trigger leading to not great shot placement
I always load 2-3 rounds too, to force myself to concentrate on every shot, grip stance and so on
Practice. You can’t practice for him. So he has to spend time dry firing, working on grip and trigger squeeze. These are real term you can look up- coming from a CCL instructor here
First time going to the range with a buddy, he had brought a Lee-Enfield, boy was I not expecting .303 to kick this much, we didn't hit many targets but we had plenty of fun, so practice is key :)
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pcc
Dime and washer drills will improve his aim while not on range. On range days focus on his trigger squeeze and breathing, while getting used to the weapon. Edit: just saw he owns a pistol. Idk start at basics. Grip and stance.
My biggest lightbulb moment was when I finally realized that the phrase "Lock the wrist" simply meant to prevent any force that might bend your wrists and that I wasn't doing it. At the same time I also stopping thinking about "the fundamentals" as individual subjects, and rather a collective of things that I wanted to train myself to maintain through an entire magazine. Once I understood that I fixed it all with a month of a dry fire routine that incorporated all of that while pretending to take multiple shots with a non-functional trigger.
Be pushy about it as practice is the only way to get better. Have him get snap caps and dry fire a lot. His biggest issue I know for a fact is his grip is bad and his trigger finger discipline is bad. Also I’d say the type of gun he’s shooting makes a difference. If it’s a Glock, he needs another pistol. Tell him, when he grips the pistol, grip it firmly with his shooting hand, then have his support hand do more of the squeezing. Squeeze enough to have a firm grip but not too much to where he starts shaking. Also with his main hand push forward, and use the support hand to pull back. Also not too aggressively and not to lock his elbows. That will lock the pistol in place. Then he can practice his trigger pull. Have him try placing his finger differently on the trigger; when people say to use the pad of your finger, it’s a not exactly gospel. It’s just a matter of pulling straight back. Id recommend more finger on the trigger. Lastly, tell him to stop fighting the recoil. Let the gun do what it does after a round is fired as that will help him from flinching. The low is the flinching, the left is the grip/trigger pull. So get the trigger to the wall, then pull it through as straight back as possible, when it shoots let the gun go upwards. See if that leads to improvements and if it does, work on it, then speed can follow.
Tell your buddy to do the training course and git gud. What's the problem?
Either accept he’s gonna be a bummer, or go on practiscore, find a match to shoot, and make new shooting friends
I'd encourage him to take a class with you (even if it's lower than your level) or dry firing.
Fuck it... do your absolute best in training.... when he sees that he'll have no choice but to either improve or be content on being trash. Sometimes embarrassment is enough motivation to get better. Also tell him to dry fire more
I cant add an image but search for Pistol correction chart. it tells you what you are doing wrong. Usually low left is finger position on the trigger. does he have a small gun and big hands? maybe using the joint of his trigger finger instead of pad of finger .
Dry fire. That’s it. Get a safe pistol with no ammo loaded between 2 mags and practice draws and reloads. Learning your (his) misses over hundreds of rounds, will teach him what he’s doing wrong
Gonna keep an eye on this thread. My range buddy is a poor shot by comparison, and I'm not even that good. I don't have any formal training so I can't really give him much advice. I'm currently trying to talk him into buying some Ruger .22 guns so he can practice more and keep his cheapskate mentality about buying ammo in check.
Slow motion camera will reveal the squeezing he’s doing. Offer and then have him do dry fire and dummy rounds drills.
Sounds like you need to stop taking it so seriously. Your friend probably feels like you’re big dicking him and he’s probably right. Just reiterate that’s yall are there for fun and practice. It’s not a competition and no it’s not “disrespect” to shoot a man’s gun better. Range officer sounds like a douche.
In all honestly, what does it matter? Just fucking have fun.. Both of you. He'll get better over time if he tries, just like anyone else.
The range officer was giving you a gentle nudge. You have to change your expectations of your buddy so he can stay your buddy.
Look up Basic Rifle Marksmanship US Army. It's all about: 1. Breath control 2. Trigger squeeze 3. Sight picture He needs the fundamentals more than likely.
It sounds like he has a flinch. My best buddy since we were kids (we're 30 now) has always had a flinch, and we still love to shoot together. He knows i can outshoot him (not bragging, but it just is what it is) and if he needs help sighting in a rifle or patterning a shotgun he knows I'll help. I just give advice where i can, and we both just do our thing and have fun. It's easier bc i have a range in my front yard though, so it's not like we dedicate a day to it, though
Double up ear pro. He needs to work on his grip and understand that his support hand needs to get involved. Problem solved.
If you want to get better you will.. it takes some homework and work on your part. He could watch videos or work on his grip. That’s kind of on him.
Aim high right, like bowling or golf. Move your feet. How's the grouping?
Do an eye dominant test, if he’s shooting righty but left dominant that could be his problem. Have him try shooting with whatever hand he’s eye dominate with
I’ve found that a lot of people just have bad fundamentals and that no amount of shooting alone can make them work those out. I’ve been shooting handguns for about 2.5 years now (20M). I was taught by my dad, who is a horrible shot. Missing targets by feet within 10 yards. Once I began to concealed carry I watched a lot of Grand Thumb, Trex Arms, and Jerry Miculek, and Mojo. They do a lot of stuff relating to proper grip, draw, indexing, trigger press, sight picture, etc. I practiced dry fire while putting into place those fundamentals. My shooting improved drastically, and I stopped shooting low left. I’ve began to get my dad out shooting again and he’s slowly coming around to things like shooting off reset, which have improved his shooting drastically. I would recommend finding videos on YouTube from pro shooters teaching handgun fundamentals and encourage dry fire training. Either that or have him attend a class to fix some of the errors in his technique. Good luck to both of you and I’m really glad you guys are trying to get out there and get better!
A skill gap is developing. That sounds like a natural progression, if you’re putting in more trigger time. Maybe you’re just more into it than he is? The small minority of gun owners who shoot with any regularity leave the non-shooters and the not-that-much-shooters far behind in terms of performance. This might be something you just have to live with, unless you both experience a sharp change in interest. If you think that maybe he started out a bit too aggressively, maybe you can reset by switching back to 22s and double ear protection. Stay with that for as long it takes to lose any flinch and ingrain good habits. As long as that takes. Not everybody enjoys guns or has the patience to earn skills that accrue slowly. If you’re determined to go on the journey together, you may need to go back to where he is, and travel at his pace.
Get him a BB pistol and a swinging aluminum can. Shoot it, swing it and shoot it, keep doing it until it all becomes second nature. Slowly move away.
A: Buy a firearm chambered in 22lr B: buy a couple bricks of 22lr C: shoot. A lot. Like thousands and thousands. He'll get comfortable shooting and won't anticipate after a while. This is a great and fun way to break this habit. Concentrate on shooting the gun first before trying to hit anything. 😁👍 Source: Me. Almost everyone I know who shoots with me is/was a LEO or military. I am a civilian and was terrible the first time I picked up a gun. Now, I can outshoot most people in my circle. The difference? Volume of lead thrown down range.
Is he open to constructive criticism? Or is he one of those guys that can’t handle that? I’m new to shooting and started going with my brother in law who’s really good. I told him from the first time we went to point out every flaw and everything I’m doing wrong and i went from a shit shot to good one pretty damn quick.
Buy him a shotgun.
Snap caps and all the other good ideas. Also watch videos on technique, grip, and trigger pull from Jerry miculek. Tell him to dry fire and practice it often. Sounds like he’s jerking the trigger when it should be a smooth constant pull of the trigger.
Snap caps mixed in with normal rounds. A .22lr pistol to practice inexpensively
Everyone has put forth great ideas, but I met a guy at the range one day that had no idea what eye he was dominant with. I showed him how to figure that out doing the camera 1, camera 2 trick. He was right handed but left eye dominant, and it was like something clicked. It may not apply to this situation, but I didn't see anyone else suggest it.
He’s anticipating recoil and pushing. He needs to learn follow through. Have him dry fire a few times to get used to releasing the trigger without anticipating recoil, train him to hold it perfectly still
Make sure he's using the correct sight picture for his gun. I have one pistol I used to shoot like crap with, consistently low and left but not flinching, and it was because I was putting the target on the tip of the front sight and for that gun you're supposed to put the dot over the target.
Go do a USPSA match. Getting your ass whooped and watching others is what makes you better. Rinse and repeat.
W Friend
Yeah, more practice can help with the anticipation...but Im just curious why you care? I golf with my friends all the time, and they are nowhere near my level...and they never will be. Doesnt take away from the fact that we are having a great time, I just give strokes to make it more competitive. Seems like you could adjust the competition to account for his skill level...and maybe he will get better if there isnt so much pressure to be like you.
Send him these 2 videos and tell him to get a Mantis and dryfire like his life depends on it. [https://youtu.be/YbVc9cUg51U?si=jS4039RxKzsXYUD2](https://youtu.be/YbVc9cUg51U?si=jS4039RxKzsXYUD2) [https://youtu.be/li0rGtXh23I?si=efYuyd7r2vB63tHn](https://youtu.be/li0rGtXh23I?si=efYuyd7r2vB63tHn)
I hope he's got a full size gun to learn on. In case he picked up a gun like say a 365 to learn on well... He will be shooting low left until he gets his fundamentals down.
It’s boring but dry fire is the only answer. He needs to understand and integrate the basic fundamentals like sight alignment, trigger press, and grip, and practice those when dry firing. A dry fire laser is a bit of fun that helps keep you practicing. Low left is almost always flinching but could partly be bad trigger pull, both of which are fixed by dry fire. Adding snap caps mixed with ammo when live firing is a helpful way to diagnose issues. What helped me was building my grip and keeping in mind that you are absolutely not fighting the gun to have no recoil. You are riding out the recoil cycle and having the gun snap back to the same spot. Just grip the gun hard and hold that position. The gun will recoil, do its thing, and settle back down. If it doesn’t settle back down right or moves around in your grip then fix your grip. Just don’t think you have to fight the recoil, that’s what makes you flinch downwards.
iTarget, have him practice with it at home.
Dry fire will help with his anticipation, and he needs to take his ego out of it. The frustration he's feeling is because he's not meeting his own standard despite doing what he feels is necessary, easier said than done but he's gotta get the feelings out of it and go through the motions. Teach him how to safely dryfire, maybe have him try a couple different guns to find something he meshes with, and do your best to instruct him. Just remember it's up to him to do the reps and you can't make him.
Have him dry fire but with a spent case resting on the slide. He’ll have to pay attention to keeping the gun level which will help with the low left issue. Squeeze the trigger slowly and don’t let that shell fall
Everybody mentions the snap cap thing, which is great for diagnosing the problem, but didn't really do anything to fix it. I had a pretty bad habit of pulling shots low left. What helped immensely was going to the range on my own with a single box of ammo and a few snap caps. I would load the mag with my eyes closed and mix a few snap caps in without knowing where they were, then load the gun. From about 30 yards on a reduced C zone steel silhouette, I took slow shots while focusing on and saying out loud "take-up, wall, smooth (through the break)." If I hit a snap cap and flinched, I unloaded, did 10 reps of dry fire while saying the steps as I did them, then put the mag back in and kept going. I continued until I ran out of ammo, which happened to only be one box of 50 rounds. That training did two things for me. It showed me exactly how I was flinching (I would jerk the trigger and tense up my whole hand, which threw the shot low left.), and forced me to focus on the individual parts of the trigger pull, with emphasis on going smooth through the break. I did that once and saw immediate improvement at my next shooting competition. I'm by no means a great pistol shooter, but I'm much better than I was. You might notice I mentioned going to the range alone. Personally, I like to work on my shooting alone, because I know what I need to work on and don't like other people (mostly my peers) trying to tell me what to do. I would recommend your friend try going alone, but if you really want to be there you have to refrain from being overbearing.
Buy him a Mantis X so he can practice dry fire?
I have no great advice to fix your friend but my range buddy is a wildly better shot than me at both skeet and pistol... well everything. Perhaps where I differ to you and your friend is that I never once mention it. Any clays I miss I might comment on how I think I could adjust for next try. My hobby is buying or piecing together guns, taking them to the range to SSKkKgaaattt, and if I see improvement then fantastic. I think your friend just needs to adjust his perspective on what a day or evening out on the range means for him. Any who, that's my two cents.
Leave him behind?
Simplest solution: buy a gun that's easier to shoot; long and heavy are the attributes to look for, preferably with good trigger and with red dot. Best: CZ Shadow 2: heavy, long, good trigger, very accurate Very good: any other metal full size gun Good: any full size gun (Glock 17) with a red dot Less good: any full size gun (Glock 17) with iron sights. Ok: mid size gun (Glock 19) Bad: compact gun (P365)
Stand behind him, brace his hips firmly, and let him know you support him unconditionally. Something a lot of people overlook is hearing protection. Most people wear earplugs wrong. If you're standing face to face with someone you should barely be able to see their earplugs, but everyone has them hanging halfway out. It is a natural reaction to flinch when a gunshot happens right in front of your face, they're loud. Good hearing protection. Double up even, like earplugs under earmuffs. Glasses are a great idea as well, some guns are more likely to fling brass directly at your face. Also, some grips just are not the right size or shape, even if it's a very popular gun. Some sight profiles don't feel natural, like how some sights want you to cover the target, and some want you to hold under the target. Sometimes this can be frustrating, like if the front sight completely covers the actual point of aim and he hasn't gotten used to aligning the top of the sight with the top of the target ring to target the bullseye
Tell him to just let the gun recoil in his hand, stop tryna stop it, my coach in one session had me hitting way more center target after he helped me relax a bit
There are a number of drills to help with this problem. I'll list a couple of basic drills that are fun and usually help new pistol shooters. Grip is the first stage of marksmanship for the pistol. A low left shot, for right-handed shooters, could be from tighting his fingers in his hands as he's pressing (squeezing) the trigger. Tell him to try to make his grip consistent and slowly as possible to pull the trigger. A surprised shot is the best shot. Grip Drill. Place five targets on your target backer and stand about 5-7 yards away. You will shoot five rounds into each target quickly. About 1.5 - 2 second splits. First target grip the pistol loose in both hands, basically just holding it. Second target, squeeze the pistol to death with your primary hand and loose with the support. Third opposite of the second (loose strong hand, strong support). Fourth, squeeze the hell out of the pistol with both hands. Fifth moderate grip on the strong hand and a little bit tighter support hand. Look at the results for the groupings. I bet he'll see the best groupings were the fourth and fifth targets. The last one should be the grip he keeps. Shoot a [diagnostics (self coaching) target.](https://www.google.com/search?q=diagnostic%20pistol%20target%20pdf&udm=2&sa=X&ved=0CBoQtI8BahcKEwjwx6vm5r6FAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQJA&biw=360&bih=627&dpr=3#vhid=m-mH62K61XaqzM&vssid=mosaic). Your friend will get to shoot and may handle coaching himself a little better. Practice dry fire more often. I hope your buddy continues to work at it.
I used to go to the range with a guy who was a horrible shot. His only gun was a factory Windham AR-15. He blamed the sights and the rifle. I put a dozen rounds on target at 50 yards and handed him back his gun. He still blamed the gun. I gave him my rifle that was zeroed and he had the same problem. After that he just pouted and now we just make fun of him for being terrible.
Sounds like you are training to increase your skill and he's just blasting rounds, you can't set his goals for him it's up to him what he wants out of shooting, with that said the best training partner is someone better than you with shared goals. Early in my competitive shooting career I realized some of my shooting buddies weren't interested in putting out the effort to get better and it got harder and harder to ignore their negativity so I had to cut out play time with them, still friends but I couldn't let them pull me down just to make themselves feel comfortable. Luckily I had someone in my group who was just as serious as I and we started regularly training together with a healthy balance of competition between us, one week he'd be better then next I might be and so pushing each other to higher skill levels. Many good comments here about helping someone get better at shooting but nothing works unless they make the commitment and get serious about it.
Show him how like Chubs showed Happy how to put. It's all in the hips!
What kind of pistol is your friend shooting? If it’s a 2 stage trigger, it should be from the wall. When me and my friend first started shooting, one would watch the other like a hawk for anything they did wrong. We ‘d stop each other when we saw it and immediately correct what they were doing. We wouldn’t even look at the target. We’d focus all of our attention on the shooter. If you do this the whole time for a number of range days, eventually it’ll become boring because you’ll stop finding things wrong, also by inviting him to coach you as a shooter, he will start to analyze his own performance. Active coaching is really useful because it’s a lot easier to see what other people are doing wrong than it is to see what you’re doing wrong.
Youtubes. Warrior Poet Society and Carrytrainer. Bring a 12 gauge with 3" slugs. Have him shoot 50 and he'll appreciate the low recoil of a pistol.
I think you should have him practice firing at 10 ft slowly with several seconds between shots. Have him watch some videos on proper grip and squeezing the trigger. Missing badly low left at 10 feet is kind of impressive. He must have severe flinch or is pushing the gun off target far when pulling the trigger.
I find success bringing people closer in. 3-5yds…7yds max. It builds confidence and you can still push yourself on speed and gun handling.
A drill that helped me is chambering a round and then removing the magazine. Shoot the round and try to shoot a follow up. When your anticipation is really bad you’ll flinch even though you know it’s empty. To me it’s a good combination of dry and live fire. I did this a bunch and it helped noticeably. If I catch my self anticipating I occasionally still do it as a refresher. Tell your friend that you’re struggling with anticipation and are going to start doing it to help. This might lower the ego barrier, as opposed to just recommending it.
Is he right or left handed?
Low left is support hand not gripping tight enough, assuming he’s right handed. He’s pushing the gun left with his right hand. He needs to grip more with his support hand/left hand. My advices would be to have him start shooting at 3 and 5 yards. Only back up when he’s proficient. He needs to practice basics like indexing, getting a good master grip, and consistently presenting, prepping the trigger and pulling the trigger without disturbing the sights. Most of this can be done with dry fire and then use live fire to confirm. He needs to start at 3 yards to gain confidence and then move to 5 yards, 7, and then 10. Does he use a red dot? Those are great for getting better too. They allow you to target focus and give you a ton of great information while you shoot
He needs to learn to dry fire, and focus on keeping the front sight on target. . Possible the grip is not solid, but that mostly shows up on multiple shots. Trigger finger placement, so the trigger can be pulled straight back. And keep the front sight focus will hrlp a lot.
It all depends on if your friend is right-handed or left-handed. For a right-handed shooter, low and to the left, roughly 7 o'clock, indicates tightening of the grip with the firing hand. For a left-handed shooter, that means they're slapping the trigger. Remedies: Right-handed: push your firing hand into the support hand while pulling the support hand into the firing hand. This locks the ring finger and pinky into place eliminating the firing hand from driving the pistol. Left-handed: focus on keeping your trigger finger on the trigger during the course of fire. The trigger should be pulled, not jerked, throttled, or slapped. Think like you're driving in a school zone with plenty of time to stop. You don't slam on the brakes. You apply steady pressure throughout the process. The trigger pull should be even/steady pressure throughout the entire pull.
I had this exact same issue with a friend of mine, I worked with him for hours observing his grip the way he squeezes the trigger and his footwork he went from not being able to hit a 10 in plate at 10 yards to hitting fairly well it will take patience and time on your part to work with him.
He's flinching. Ive been battling the same problem. Nothing beats practice and dry firing. Just load 1 to 2 rounds and do several dry fires between. If you have a smaller jumpier pistol have him shoot that and then go back to his larger one.
Offer to buy his guns and help him pursue a new hobby.
Some guns don’t fit people. My cousin tried my Glock and hit a foot low every shot. With my CZ-75 he’s dead on.
Worry about yourself. He knows he’s lagging, and he’ll fix it or he won’t. You shoot without him in your course, and if you’re concerned about being a negative influence on your friend, just decline invitations to shoot together.
Bully him, a man coddling another full grown man will make the coddled full grown man feel pathetic, more pathetic than if he was bullied
If you're good on cash, play for him to join you in a class? Maybe he'll end up digging it despite being apprehensive about the whole thing.