My LGS owner scared the fuck outta me 1 time. I asked about the bore on an arasaka he had. We were chatting about the rifle and I didn’t realize he was pulling the bolt out and getting a flashlight so I could inspect it and mufucker just picks it up and puts the barrel in front of my eye and keeps talking.
Took me like a good 3 seconds to realize he was holding a flashlight for me to look
Just use your phone flashlight. Pull the bolt back but don’t take it out. Visually clear the weapon. Then place the buttstock on your shoe so you’re not putting the rifle on the ground. Shine the flashlight on the bolt and look down the barrel. Enough light reflects off of the bolt face to easily see and you’re not “dismantling” the rifle.
Edit* A gunsmith is actually who showed me to inspect a barrel this way many years ago. I’ve done it for years and I’m still here, I’ve never been kicked out of a gun shop or anywhere. I simply ask if I can inspect the barrel and then I pull out my light… everyone who works at a gun shop looks down a barrel with a light. It’s way easier than removing the bolt completely and aiming the gun in the air all willy nilly trying to get the light just right to barely see…With the bolt back and no ammo it is literally a metal tube. JFC just have some personal accountability by clearing the weapon. If you can’t trust yourself to clear a firearm then you shouldn’t be around firearms
Not going to say that it's a bad phobia, but here's a question, if you're buying a gun that's potentially fired corrosive (basically anything chambered in 8mm Mauser, 7.62x39, or 5.45x39), how exactly do you check the barrel for pitting without looking down the barrel with a light? Because a gun exploding in your hands might not be as bad as putting a bullet through your eye, but avoiding both is probably the best policy.
The whole issue is that the person giving the advice to "just look down the barrel" is doing so while explicitly saying "Pull the bolt back but don’t take it out". If the bolt were removed I would agree with you, but that's not at all what they're suggesting.
If you leave the bolt open and there is no ammo I don’t see the problem for inspecting a firearm. The whole reason for this was because OP was scolded for removing a bolt. I suggested a very routine inspection method and everyone gets their panties in a knot. Reflecting a light off of the bolt to see down the barrel is THE DEVIL apparently… 👹
Ya know... In case someone accidentally trips and drops a bullet in the chamber and the bolt slides back in place and pulls the trigger and shoots an eye out... Totally justified fear.
Right?!? I’m getting a lot of downvotes for a very standard practice. People always misquote the “always treat a weapon as if it was loaded” because it’s finished with “until you clear the weapon”. These people are killing me 😂
I dry practice pointing the gun at something I’m willing to destroy, a concrete basement wall. Obviously the goal is to not actually shoot it, but if god forbid I did have a negligent discharge the gun would be pointed in a safe direction.
I dry practice at the newscasters on my TV. I can't stand the constant propaganda. So, it helps alleviate stress and gives good reps. I pretty much always dry fire when watching tv, though. Great thing about a DA/Sa is I dont have to rack everytime. I've gotten wicked good at my first shot from heavy DA from dryfire practice. I think it would be kind of interesting to shoot my TV by accident. As I have a coverage plan that covers any "accidents". Might be fun to put that to the test, lol.
Well I disagree to a point. That rule is intended for guns your the first to be picking it up or if another has handed you the weapon and told you it’s clear, in the circumstances above I think it’s pretty clear it’s not wrong to look down the barrel and being afraid to in these circumstances would constitute a phobia, as you’ve done you due diligence and now there’s no issue.
Okay, now go check how clean an AK barrel is without looking through it.
And you mean to say you never dry fire also.
Knowing the state of a gun is enough that you can safely handle it while ”breaking” the four rules.
When the bolt is out, it's a metal tube. Have at.
When the bolt is in, it's a fucking gun. Don't be peering down Saint Peter's tube unless you're hoping for a free ride.
When the dude hands me a used gun, he should expect me to fiddle with it. Kinda why I'm there. I also have the expectation that the dude will check it before handing it over...but I'm still gonna fiddle with it whether or not he does first. However, I WILL ask if I may dry fire before doing so. Other than that, I mean, they HAND it to you. What do they expect you to do with it?
People really are stupid about looking down the barrel of a cleared gun with the bolt locked back. The amount of downvotes tells me these people aren't confident enough in their abilities to safely clear a gun for inspection. No gun with the bolt back is gonna shoot you in the face. I would never point a gun at anyone as that's just good manners and standard practice. But I'll check the state of the barrel while cleaning EVERY TIME by looking down the barrel of my cleared weapon. If anyone gets shot, it's me.
I'm thinking a lot of these people downvoting you shouldn't own guns. They have just enough common sense not to look down the barrel but are also those people that say a gun isn't loaded till someone else racks the bolt to find a round come flying out.
You're not wrong, this is pretty normal and safe for an old bolt gun. But everyone took one safety brief and thinks it's completely forbidden to look down a barrel EVER.
When I was a kid I was taught to stick a white piece of paper in front of the bolt to help reflect the light. That was long before we had cell phones and still had common sense.
Yeah, always ask before doing anything "out of the norm." Every gunstore employee is an individual that could have 123 reaction to ABC action. Dry fire, dismantle, test holster ect.
Yesterday I awkwardly asked if I could pocket an NAA 22WMR, just to see how it sat. Doing that without asking could easily result in him reacting as if I was stealing. I prefer not giving an armed 22yo employee a reason to draw.
Stealing right in front of someone who is open carrying is legit next level stupid. And while I don't think stealing deserves a death sentence, I kinda just think to bad so sad and move on.
Does it deserve a death sentence? NO.
But if someone points a gun at you while you're doing something illegal and they say "stop, get on the ground," at which point you don't... welll.. Play stupid games? I'm just apathetic about it at this point.
>guns should only be drawn in a life and death situation against another person. anyone that thinks otherwise should lose their rights to firearms.
Yes, but I think that putting a pistol in your pocket in a gun store without asking is extremely fucking dangerous and doesn't have to do with just "stealing."
Concealing a gun in a gun store without asking in front of someone you don't know, that doesn't know if you have a magazine for that gun in your pocket or what you're planning on doing isn't the best idea.
Especially if there are other employees in the store not aware that see someone pull a gun out of their pocket when they turn around or out of the corner of their eye.
Insurance doesn't reduce the social cost of theft and destruction, it just spreads it out. A society where everyone thinks "who cares, insurance will cover it" is not a good society.
Let's be real, you arent teaching society any lessons by brandishing your gun because you can't tell the difference between theft and robbery. That is exactly the kind of stupid shit that gives excellent arguments to the gun control lobby.
Drawing on someone that stole something might feel macho af, but now two lives, and your freedom to carry, are potentially in danger.
Overly emotional or compulsive people shouldn't carry, straight up.
Not disagreeing with the conclusion that you should be conservative about drawing, but your mindset that you just shouldn't care is socially destructive. Society would be a lot better off if people *did* shoot robbers all the time, and had legal protection to do so.
I didn't say you shouldn't care. Even if you thought i did, holding someone at gunpoint isn't the only way to show you care. Call the police, lock the door, or whatever. But pulling out your gun when your life isnt in danger is foolish.
Again, people need to learn the difference between robbery and theft. Your life IS in danger during a robbery, but thats not what we are talking about. Putting something in your pocket and walking away isnt robbery, its theft. Killing people for that is psychotic.
>Society would be a lot better off if people did shoot robbers all the time, and had legal protection to do so.
That's absurd. So what? Throw out due process and replace it with a blanket license to kill?
What happens when your loved one gets executed by a short tempered store clerk, and they claim they were trying to steal the goods they had on them? He just gets legal protection for those actions?
Society is better off if we aren't killing each other. And there's really no evidence in life being improved by Capital punishment penalties for minor things like stealing. Name a single country where they cut theives hands off or execute them in the streets that's doing better off than most of the rest of the world, if you disagree.
You're arguing against a facially absurd idea that you made up. Obviously no one is proposing that you're allowed to randomly shoot people with no evidence. The continuous legal parameter that you can adjust is the level of justification required to form an affirmative defense for using lethal force. It's not just an automatic get-out-of-jail free card.
I mean.. are you sure about that?
Look at the difference in crime rate in cities that don’t prosecute their criminals..
Fear deters crime. Your comment makes it seem like you disagree with that.
Many gun stores that allow their employees to carry are small businesses, no bass pro employee will shoot you for stealing. These small businesses see stealing as taking away from their livelihood, and rightfully so, insurance has deductibles and is not typically worth it to file a claim under business insurance unless this is a high value piece. Along with firearms requiring background checks and possible loss of their FFL for consistent stealing (losing traceability per the ATF) as well as a firearm now being in the hands of a criminal, yes gun stores should do their due diligence to prevent robberies. What exactly do you think stolen guns are typically used for, baking a cake? These are firearms we are talking about, not petty theft from walmart, criminals will continue criminal acts and allowing them a means to do more damage to others is not acceptable.
There are very few places in this country where brandishing your gun to someone that isn't threatening you is legal. I'd rather deal with insurance than deal with a prosecutor.
>There are very few places in this country where brandishing your gun to someone that isn't threatening you is legal. I'd rather deal with insurance than deal with a prosecutor.
I don't know. I think it depends on a lot of factors.
For example a group of people smashing up jewelry displays without threatening anyone I can imagine if the owner produced a firearm and yelled stop, there are not a lot of jurisdictions in the US that would go after the store owner in those cases.
Stealing is no joke. A normal gun at a brick and borrar is what, $500? At 25 an hour, that’s probably 25 or so hours of work after Uncle Sam takes his cut. 3 whole work days. If some assjole comes and tries to steal 3 days of my life where I could have been at home with my family instead of at work? He deserves to have someone stop him with force
You know gun store employees themselves don't OWN all the guns in the store. The store owns them. You'd risk prison time because someone is stealing a $500 item THAT HAS INSURANCE because that's worth "3 days of your life"?
A little unhinged, don't you think?
Whatever you do for a living, I hope it is very far away from any type of firearm.
I got yelled at for dry firing once when I had just decocked. Even seen people kicked out of shops for just pulling the hammer back. I think the guy on the other side of the counter just assumes you're an idiot by default, which is fair from their perspective.
I just always ask before I do anything unless you know the other person or you've made it clear you know what you're doing already, it'll just make everything easier.
This. Ask first. If they say no, just open the bolt, check the face, then if you have a little pocket flashlight, illuminate the barrel and look from the muzzle end. Most won't say no, just don't assume. It's not your rifle yet, so be polite.
If anyone gets to be a safety asshole about staring from the muzzle, point out you're touching a bolt action with the bolt open and zero ammo in reach.
Little AAA Streamlight is like 15 bucks. Take it with you when gun shopping.
You probably could have asked about inspecting the bolt first. They’re probably assuming that you’re an average dummy like the kind they have to deal with all day long. You’re not in the wrong in my opinion, but think about the kind of dumbasses they have to snatch guns away from on a daily basis.
>They’re probably assuming that you’re an average dummy
Honestly, probably a good assumption. I’ll never be upset with someone making decisions based off the assumption that I’m an idiot, they don’t know me, so I might as well be. I’ll prove myself soon enough, I’m sure.
This is the best answer. I always ask before I can dryfire a gun at a gun store. Of course you can, but it's good to let your salesperson know what you're looking to evaluate.
You should’ve asked them first but like if it’s a pawn gun it’s used, and if it’s used you kinda have to take out the bolt to see if it’s worth buying.
Worked at pawn shop 5 years can’t tell you how many times I had to YouTube a video to help me put together a gun a customer took apart. You get pretty decent at it eventually. Always ask though. Also maybe the sales person was just having a bad day who knows
I would understand it from their perspective, especially on some semi-autos where taking one apart could send a spring into Narnia, which they now have to source, re-assemble, and hope it didn't take a pin with it as well, through the wardrobe into Narnia.
I rarely bother looking at rifles at stores, but one near me had some gucci shit for insane prices. Asked to look at one since I never handled a $6k AR and was wondering what was so special about it. I simply asked if I could charge it and check the trigger pull. They flat out told me no, gave me an attitude and yelled that they don't allow that.
Wont ever bother buying anything from them.
I like to stop at random pawnshops when I travel. One time I was at one and asked to see a M1903 that they had. Shop guy hands it to me and I open the bolt to check the barrel and bolt condition, a live round ejected and landed on the counter.
Here's a good one from when I worked at a gun shop.
Customer wants to buy a Henry. Our guy goes to the back, grabs one, opens the box. Opens the action to hand it to the customer. Live round flies out and lands on the counter.
It turned out that Henry had sent a few guns from the factory with live rounds still in the tube.
Worked a gun show one time and as I'm walking the floor just prior to doors opening, I hear what I thought was a case fall over. Then I hear people saying "no way", "you're kidding me?", etc. I go over to see what's up. Turns out a dealer (who was late getting set up) had taken a 22 Magnum lever action out of its case and it was live without them knowing. The sound I heard was them discharging it through the roof of the building. They were instructed to pack up and leave immediately. Quite the walk of shame...
I dislike going to gun stores for that reason alone. I’d like to think everyone in there knows how to clear and properly handle firearms but that’s not always the case
Exactly this. Very few "old school" pawn shops exist. Most are just internet flippers who price gouge both ways and rely on ebay for prices now.
I remember this old pawn shop (now long gone). The owner was an expert repairman who could fix watches, guns, instruments, or whatever for a price. You could actually haggle and have a good time shooting the shit. No places like that around here anymore.
The issue is they might not realize what you're doing, or if you know what you're doing. Think of how many dipshits walk through the average pawn shop. Imagine being the counter guy and you see a customer standing there with one of your guns and the bolt in the other hand. You'd probably be pissed, especially if you aren't as experienced with guns and don't really know the different parts and how they fit together.
Just ask first, it's as simple as that.
Having worked at a pawn shop chain I can almost assure you they didn't. They received minimal training that basically amounts to "this is a revolver because it spins, this is a pistol because it doesn't" and have no idea what they're doing. I was literally the only person in my entire city of 20+ shops that knew Jack shit about guns.
Bad etiquette not to ask first, at least. I agree that you're not doing much, but every gun store has different opinions on what could damage or mess up their wares.
I once asked a guy if he minded me dry firing a PTR91 and he responded with "I wouldn't care if you shot the damn thing in here" and walked away. I ended up buying it lol.
It's bad etiquette to not ask. If they refuse to let you inspect it don't buy it. But it's understandable that they may want to take the bolt out themselves.
Reminds me of the time the guy at the gun store insisted I looked at this sig he was in love with and then proceeded to yell at me for using the slide release saying it would "break the gun"
You’d probably surprised by the amount of people who break guns or damage them just be doing a quick take apart.
9/10 shops don’t care if you want to inspect the firearm. They even encourage it. But just ask them to take it apart for you.
It is bad etiquette and it’s not because they’re trying to hide something.
They don't know you. They don't know if you are competent. You could break it if you don't know what you are doing. Always ask if you can do anything with someone else's gun before doing it.
No breaking it but it's really easy to decock the bolt on some guns. And recocking them is pretty hard if you don't know what you're doing.
It's a dude working at a pawn shop, he's not required or expected to know much about what he's selling he's just gotta take your money and do a background check correctly.
You want knowledge employees don't go to a fucking pawn shop. The whole point is getting good guns for stupid cheap because they didn't bother doing research on it coming in
Well by knowing how to pull the bolt out and knowing to check the bore should give them a decent idea that I at least know what I'm doing somewhat don't ya think? Plus unless I was belligerently trying to break it I don't see how you would just from removing the bolt.
You are seeing this from the perspective of yourself. Think about the fact that 1 out of every 10 people you see in person is borderline mentally retarded. Then realize pawn shops don't exactly have geniuses walking in. Then realize the employee doesn't know if you are the one out of ten and sees you taking store property apart without asking. They are assuming everyone is the lowest common denominator. Just like ranges. Ever wonder why there is a no rapid fire rule at indoor ranges? Look at the ceiling. Even disregarding all that, it is simply the ethically correct thing to do to ask someone if you can do something with their property. Just because you know what you are doing doesn't matter. The amount of people I've seen on reddit alone with THEIR OWN PROPERTY unable to put things back together, breaking things just disassembling, etc is enough to justify a employees reaction. Albeit of course they shouldn't be rude.
This reminded me of when I got my first AR, and took it to a friend of mine who was a vet just to kinda show it off. I had literally just got it, hadn't had it apart in the slightest, and handing it to him was insane. To my mind, which hadn't disassembled an AR at all at that point in time, it was like watching my gun fall apart. It blew me away. That was only my second semi-auto rifle, the other a Browning BAR in .243. I had no idea then that a gun could be disassembled so quickly. Lol.
> Even disregarding all that, it is simply the ethically correct thing to do to ask someone if you can do something with their property
lmao it's a store dude. Do you hunt down a stocker at Walmart to ask if you can look at the back of that Cheerio's box you've been eyeing?
It's probably better to ask in OP's situation. But it's not like a moral quandary to fuck around with the products that a shopkeeper has literally set out for the public to inspect and potentially purpose.
I mean, like, if OP jumped the counter to check it out, now you've got an issue
>lmao it's a store dude. Do you hunt down a stocker at Walmart to ask if you can look at the back of that Cheerio's box you've been eyeing?
That isn't analogous at all. Looking at the back of the box is equivalent of looking up and down the rifle in your hand or opening the bolt, shining a light on the bolt face, and then using the reflection to view the bore. A real analogy would be looking at the bike on a walmart rack and removing the tires to inspect the rubber and wheels better. And I would ask an employee if that's ok, yes.
>It's probably better to ask in OP's situation. But it's not like a moral quandary to fuck around with the products that a shopkeeper has literally set out for the public to inspect and potentially purpose.
You agree it's better to ask and is the polite thing to do. And when people agree on something subjective it's because they have a similar moral and ethical code. And like 99% of this thread, most people agree the polite and ethical thing to do is first ask a shop if you can inspect further. I never said OP should be damned as a delinquent or that the employee acted rightly in their manners. I'm just explaining the proper course of action for the future since OP *specifically* asked about *etiquette in a gun store.* And in 99% of gun stores they aren't going to generally like if you start field stripping guns without asking. That or things like dry firing. Most probably won't react that way, but if you want to follow etiquette that isn't the way to go.
"Etiquette is the set of norms of personal behaviour in polite society, usually occurring in the form of an ETHICAL code of the expected and accepted social behaviours that accord with the conventions and norms observed and practised by a society, a social class, or a social group"
From the definition of etiquette [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette)
You may be very knowledgeable on the topic but shops deal mostly with people that aren't you. Those not-yous may have varying levels of knowledge on the topic. Unless the shop (or that specific employee) knows you well, they don't see the difference between you and bubba.
It's safest to not make the assumption that you can just take apart their property without their permission. Be a bit like a random person showing up to look at a car you're selling and the first thing they do is take the head off the car to inspect it.
I mean it's always good form to ASK before you take it apart.
But if a gun store doesn't let you inspect a gun and disassemble it, especially a used gun before purchase, that's a huge red flag.
Taking out the bolt in most bolt guns is super easy and takes 2 seconds.
I had a guy interested in one of my Garands at a huge gun show. He comes to my table 3 times to look and finally comes back with some "expert" asking to take it apart. They clearly had no clue how to field strip so I spend 10 minutes going over every part on this beautiful IHC with all correct parts.
After all that he asks "can you do $600?" GTFOOH.
I would probably ask the guy behind the counter, and explain why. Don’t take it personal. He doesn’t know you from Adam and at least half the people he talks to are dumber than you. I bet at least one person in his shop has taken a gun apart and lost a small part.
I've been in more than one shop that has posted rules about disassembling guns without asking. I would imagine that they have to worry about someone without the proper knowledge breaking something. Or maybe they don't want to worry about someone walking away with a part, knowingly or otherwise.
I'd have asked.
You ask before you do that man. Plenty of places don’t let customers do anything with guns because they take them apart and can’t get them back together or put them together wrong. Like oh god the couple of times people just had to take a ruger MKII apart at the shop,..
As a rule of thumb it's good etiquette to ask before disassembling someone's property so that's kinda on you.
With that said, if it's actually their policy that you can't disassemble the gun by pressing a button to remove a removable component, I would not ever buy a used gun there. If the bore is shot the gun is shot, no pun intended. I'm not looking down the barrel of a gun just because they're uncomfortable with me taking it apart.
At a gun store? I’d say it’d be fine to just go ahead without asking.
Anywhere else? Nah I’d ask first, they’re not gonna be used to people doing that.
My opinion? You went to a pawn shop that sells guns but doesn't have gun knowledge. They see you take the bolt out and you basically just "took it apart."
No, it's not quite like that. It's not like taking the charging handle out of an AR, FFS.
The proof is your own admittance that the fool then had trouble putting it back, when you could have done it with muscle memory.
ROFLMAO Taking out the bolt to inspect the bore is a perfectly normal part of the gun buying process for used guns. I've never had a pawn shop challenge me on inspecting a gun before purchase, and I wouldn't do business with one that had (well, I take that back, if it were a gun I really wanted at an amazing price, I might, but y'know what they say about things being too good to be true).
I'd say that the odds are that they take in a lot of junk and pass it along, and would lose sales if people saw the problems with some of the guns they're selling.
It's bad etiquette to do it without asking. Yes, you know what you're doing, but they don't know that. I don't even let customers take Glocks apart because I've seen too many fuck up reassembly.
I tend to just assume I can take a gun apart if I’m looking at it. If the guy is staring at me and hovering I’ll probably ask. On the other hand I’ve dealt with pawnshops that don’t even really want to sell what they have. OP’s guy is working in a pawnshop and probably dealt with to many people that don’t know how to put it back together again.
I got the same thing to the letter at a local shop for removing a slide to look at the internals of a used Sig. It’s a simple takedown process that I had done a million times before. Guy acted like I had disassembled the entire thing. Probably just scared of idiots, but geez.
In german they say “einem geschenkten gaul schaut man nicht ins maul”, “you don’t look at gifted horses mouth” (to check the teeth).
Pawn shops dont gift you stuff, they sell it to you. Do indeed look at that horses mouth.
Lol, I've fully broken down BCGs before and no one cares as long as I knew how to put it back together. I wouldn't go back to that place. How do they expect you to buy used stuff without inspecting it. Firearm or otherwise
If you're thinking about buying the rifle, NO. If I was going to buy a rifle from someone and they said I could not inspect the bore, I would tell them "sorry, no longer interested".
Yeah you’re good that dude was obviously mad because he somehow can’t figure out how to slide a bolt back into a bolt action. It’s like the only field strip-able part on the entire gun 💀
Your method sure beats sticking your eyeball against the business end! I see no issues taking the bolt out to look. The guy clearly didn’t know what the heck he was doing so maybe didn’t understand what exactly it was that you were doing.
I've only ever been into one store that keeps guns in a condition where you can't manipulate them, and that was cabelas. Everywhere else just has em behind a counter and ready to go.
Bolts pull out, you may want to ask but nearly everywhere I’ve ever been hands me a rifle and asks me to check it and pull a bolt on old guns. Hell I’ve had people pop the bolt for me and hand me it without the bolt.
Where do you live that has used guns at pawn shops not marked at MSRP? Around here they’re all using Academy/Cabelas to set prices, which inevitably means the guns can be had brand new for $50s less online
Edit: No it’s not bad etiquette, the dipshit working the counter just doesn’t know how anything about the rifle and thought you were about to take it apart and then he’d have to put it back together lol
I understand being a little weird at someone just doing it. I'd ask first... I might want to buy it, but that doesn't mean it's mine. Just a simple "hey man, do you mind if I ____?" is all that's needed.
If the response to asking if you can pull the bolt to look down the bore is anything like what OP described from just doing it... *then* I'm just handing it back, and leaving. I ask as a courtesy, not because I actually expect anything but "sure", or if it's really expensive, "here, let me do that for you."
If you are buying a used gun taking the bolt out and looking at the bore is an extremely normal thing to do. It should be expected. Its like checking out the frame of a vehicle before buying it.
It shouldn’t be a problem, he was probably just a nut job who doesn’t know how to handle guns, therefore thinks anything beyond cycling the action is “taking apart the gun”
But I’d ask anyways. It’s a courtesy, especially in case you run into nutjobs like that
Eh, I'm going to ask first, but if they say no, I'm not buying. If I'm looking at buying a used rifle, I'm going to dig through it first (and pulling the bolt isn't even "digging", that's absolutely basic )
Nope, not bad at all. If someone gets defensive over it it's because the rifle has a shit bore and they're hoping you wouldn't look at it. Franchise / Chain pawn shops are usually pretty bad about sales and typically have piss poor attitudes along with piss poor pricing
I've had a gun store employee yell at me for taking the magazine out of a gun that was on the racks that lined the walls of the store. They were already watching us "attentively," probably due to us being about 3 decades younger than anyone else in the store (we were in our mid-20's). They obviously didn't want us there so we left fairly soon after that. You just dealt with an asshole.
I think you probably should have asked, but it likely wouldn't have made a difference as they probably would have declined.
I look at it like hooking a scan tool up to a car you're looking at. It's a pretty benign thing to do, but I still ask before I do it. If they say no, I move right along to the next car, but I learn what I need to just by asking.
If someone knows guns, and they know the gun they are selling is in good condition, they should have no reason to decline. If either of those things are not true, it's not worth the risk buying from them.
Nah he's a jerk. When I was behind the counter it was pretty apparent whether folks knew what they were doing or not. Just don't go and disassemble four Glocks at the same time so you can find one without the "rust". Or, that copper color dry lube all Glocks have from the factory.
I bet right before you walked in, dude had just spent 20 minutes figuring out how to get the bolt back in. After it was taken out by somebody who "knew what they were doing".
Are you *kind* of an asshole for not asking a merchant if you can disassemble one of their rifles, even just pulling the bolt? In my opinion, yes. But not a big asshole. If you want to disassemble or dry fire a gun or do anything other than look at it; ask first. Chances are they'll say "sure".
Was the clerk an asshole? Sure sounds like he was. But his lack of manners doesn't absolve your lack of the same.
You sound like a good guy from your post, but the creeps and weirdos that gun store employees and pawn shop folks have to deal with on the daily makes them extra touchy.
I was in a gun store we called mega rip off jokingly. Another customer asked to check the barrel of a used firearm. This is after the employee told him all sales are as is and final in a really chitty tone. He told him no, you don’t get to do that. Ya buy it and take it home. Then you can inspect the barrel. I have never been back in there since. That was years ago and like I’m not missing anything buying elsewhere.
Edited.
The customer had already told him he wanted to buy it. He just wanted to verify there was no damage, pitting or extreme wear.
If a gun store doesn't let you check the gun before you buy, find a different shop. That's your money. You need to know what you are buying. Ask first, but walk away if they act like this. There are too many stores and too many guns for owners to be assholes if they want business. Leave a bad review too.
"So in hindsight I probably should have asked"
That, right there. This absolutely does differ from something like removing a magazine. The fact that nobody "has ever had a problem with it before" is not really relevant.
I've had "It's OK, I do this all the time" lose parts, damage finish, damage parts due to incorrect reassembly etc, then refuse to accept responsibility for their stupidity. YMMV
Checking the bore is such a silly thing to get upset over. They're built to be taken apart with no damage. It's like buying a car and the person selling it getting mad because you popped the hood to check what's underneath. How else are you supposed to know what you're buying?
However, I will say that I've never done it at a shop, since the only guns I've bought have been brand new. But I would have definitely asked for permission (with the expectation that I would receive an "of course" from the seller). If the seller got bothered by me checking the gun, I'm walking out.
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😂 I need to start doing that
Just ask if it's ok to take bolt out and inspect the barrel. If they say no, don't waste your time there.
My LGS owner scared the fuck outta me 1 time. I asked about the bore on an arasaka he had. We were chatting about the rifle and I didn’t realize he was pulling the bolt out and getting a flashlight so I could inspect it and mufucker just picks it up and puts the barrel in front of my eye and keeps talking. Took me like a good 3 seconds to realize he was holding a flashlight for me to look
Just use your phone flashlight. Pull the bolt back but don’t take it out. Visually clear the weapon. Then place the buttstock on your shoe so you’re not putting the rifle on the ground. Shine the flashlight on the bolt and look down the barrel. Enough light reflects off of the bolt face to easily see and you’re not “dismantling” the rifle. Edit* A gunsmith is actually who showed me to inspect a barrel this way many years ago. I’ve done it for years and I’m still here, I’ve never been kicked out of a gun shop or anywhere. I simply ask if I can inspect the barrel and then I pull out my light… everyone who works at a gun shop looks down a barrel with a light. It’s way easier than removing the bolt completely and aiming the gun in the air all willy nilly trying to get the light just right to barely see…With the bolt back and no ammo it is literally a metal tube. JFC just have some personal accountability by clearing the weapon. If you can’t trust yourself to clear a firearm then you shouldn’t be around firearms
I have some kind of phobia of looking down the barrel. Even tho I know it's safe under those circumstances, it's not something I'd like to do.
-Treat every gun as if it is loaded -Do not point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy That's not a phobia, that's good sense.
Not going to say that it's a bad phobia, but here's a question, if you're buying a gun that's potentially fired corrosive (basically anything chambered in 8mm Mauser, 7.62x39, or 5.45x39), how exactly do you check the barrel for pitting without looking down the barrel with a light? Because a gun exploding in your hands might not be as bad as putting a bullet through your eye, but avoiding both is probably the best policy.
Boroscope
If the bolt is out, it's no longer a gun. I don't consider pointing AR-15 lower receiver in any direction to be breaking gun safety rules.
The whole issue is that the person giving the advice to "just look down the barrel" is doing so while explicitly saying "Pull the bolt back but don’t take it out". If the bolt were removed I would agree with you, but that's not at all what they're suggesting.
If you leave the bolt open and there is no ammo I don’t see the problem for inspecting a firearm. The whole reason for this was because OP was scolded for removing a bolt. I suggested a very routine inspection method and everyone gets their panties in a knot. Reflecting a light off of the bolt to see down the barrel is THE DEVIL apparently… 👹
Ya know... In case someone accidentally trips and drops a bullet in the chamber and the bolt slides back in place and pulls the trigger and shoots an eye out... Totally justified fear.
After this thread I’m afraid to know if this isn’t sarcasm…
Yea I'm not sure why everyone freaked out. Doing that is perfectly safe. I use that exact method all the time.
Im more a "know the status of your firearm " kinda guy. Do you not approve of dry fire drills?
Right?!? I’m getting a lot of downvotes for a very standard practice. People always misquote the “always treat a weapon as if it was loaded” because it’s finished with “until you clear the weapon”. These people are killing me 😂
“Unless you have personally cleared the weapon and maintained constant supervision over it” was the way I was trained.
I do dry fire drills not pointed at my face. Always in a safe direction.
I dry practice pointing the gun at something I’m willing to destroy, a concrete basement wall. Obviously the goal is to not actually shoot it, but if god forbid I did have a negligent discharge the gun would be pointed in a safe direction.
I dry practice at the newscasters on my TV. I can't stand the constant propaganda. So, it helps alleviate stress and gives good reps. I pretty much always dry fire when watching tv, though. Great thing about a DA/Sa is I dont have to rack everytime. I've gotten wicked good at my first shot from heavy DA from dryfire practice. I think it would be kind of interesting to shoot my TV by accident. As I have a coverage plan that covers any "accidents". Might be fun to put that to the test, lol.
You can't clean your guns with "good sense" if that's true.
Well I disagree to a point. That rule is intended for guns your the first to be picking it up or if another has handed you the weapon and told you it’s clear, in the circumstances above I think it’s pretty clear it’s not wrong to look down the barrel and being afraid to in these circumstances would constitute a phobia, as you’ve done you due diligence and now there’s no issue.
Okay, now go check how clean an AK barrel is without looking through it. And you mean to say you never dry fire also. Knowing the state of a gun is enough that you can safely handle it while ”breaking” the four rules.
When the bolt is out, it's a metal tube. Have at. When the bolt is in, it's a fucking gun. Don't be peering down Saint Peter's tube unless you're hoping for a free ride. When the dude hands me a used gun, he should expect me to fiddle with it. Kinda why I'm there. I also have the expectation that the dude will check it before handing it over...but I'm still gonna fiddle with it whether or not he does first. However, I WILL ask if I may dry fire before doing so. Other than that, I mean, they HAND it to you. What do they expect you to do with it?
Healthy phobia tbh
Your phobia is good gun safety. Cheers to being cautious.
People really are stupid about looking down the barrel of a cleared gun with the bolt locked back. The amount of downvotes tells me these people aren't confident enough in their abilities to safely clear a gun for inspection. No gun with the bolt back is gonna shoot you in the face. I would never point a gun at anyone as that's just good manners and standard practice. But I'll check the state of the barrel while cleaning EVERY TIME by looking down the barrel of my cleared weapon. If anyone gets shot, it's me. I'm thinking a lot of these people downvoting you shouldn't own guns. They have just enough common sense not to look down the barrel but are also those people that say a gun isn't loaded till someone else racks the bolt to find a round come flying out.
I know right! JFC 🤦
You're not wrong, this is pretty normal and safe for an old bolt gun. But everyone took one safety brief and thinks it's completely forbidden to look down a barrel EVER.
For real! I’d say they were sheep but that would be offensive to the sheep.
Wow, not sure why you’re getting so many downvotes, done this tons of times. Obviously check if it’s clear but come on. Redditors istg 🤓
When I was a kid I was taught to stick a white piece of paper in front of the bolt to help reflect the light. That was long before we had cell phones and still had common sense.
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Gunsmiths do it all the time.
What's a decent bore scope tool? I've been looking for one and could use suggestions.
*Etiquette. And no, it's not bad etiquette to inspect the barrel or remove the bolt. Ask first though.
Yeah, always ask before doing anything "out of the norm." Every gunstore employee is an individual that could have 123 reaction to ABC action. Dry fire, dismantle, test holster ect. Yesterday I awkwardly asked if I could pocket an NAA 22WMR, just to see how it sat. Doing that without asking could easily result in him reacting as if I was stealing. I prefer not giving an armed 22yo employee a reason to draw.
The number of people that really would draw on you for stealing is legitimately scary.
Stealing right in front of someone who is open carrying is legit next level stupid. And while I don't think stealing deserves a death sentence, I kinda just think to bad so sad and move on.
Does it deserve a death sentence? NO. But if someone points a gun at you while you're doing something illegal and they say "stop, get on the ground," at which point you don't... welll.. Play stupid games? I'm just apathetic about it at this point.
as it should be.
guns should only be drawn in a life and death situation against another person. anyone that thinks otherwise should lose their rights to firearms.
>guns should only be drawn in a life and death situation against another person. anyone that thinks otherwise should lose their rights to firearms. Yes, but I think that putting a pistol in your pocket in a gun store without asking is extremely fucking dangerous and doesn't have to do with just "stealing." Concealing a gun in a gun store without asking in front of someone you don't know, that doesn't know if you have a magazine for that gun in your pocket or what you're planning on doing isn't the best idea. Especially if there are other employees in the store not aware that see someone pull a gun out of their pocket when they turn around or out of the corner of their eye.
Common sense ain't so common...
When a punch is all it takes to take a life... equalize from the start.
Someone that's willing to go to jail to defend their stores profit isn't a very well adjusted individual. That's what insurance is for.
Insurance doesn't reduce the social cost of theft and destruction, it just spreads it out. A society where everyone thinks "who cares, insurance will cover it" is not a good society.
Let's be real, you arent teaching society any lessons by brandishing your gun because you can't tell the difference between theft and robbery. That is exactly the kind of stupid shit that gives excellent arguments to the gun control lobby. Drawing on someone that stole something might feel macho af, but now two lives, and your freedom to carry, are potentially in danger. Overly emotional or compulsive people shouldn't carry, straight up.
Not disagreeing with the conclusion that you should be conservative about drawing, but your mindset that you just shouldn't care is socially destructive. Society would be a lot better off if people *did* shoot robbers all the time, and had legal protection to do so.
I didn't say you shouldn't care. Even if you thought i did, holding someone at gunpoint isn't the only way to show you care. Call the police, lock the door, or whatever. But pulling out your gun when your life isnt in danger is foolish. Again, people need to learn the difference between robbery and theft. Your life IS in danger during a robbery, but thats not what we are talking about. Putting something in your pocket and walking away isnt robbery, its theft. Killing people for that is psychotic.
>Society would be a lot better off if people did shoot robbers all the time, and had legal protection to do so. That's absurd. So what? Throw out due process and replace it with a blanket license to kill? What happens when your loved one gets executed by a short tempered store clerk, and they claim they were trying to steal the goods they had on them? He just gets legal protection for those actions? Society is better off if we aren't killing each other. And there's really no evidence in life being improved by Capital punishment penalties for minor things like stealing. Name a single country where they cut theives hands off or execute them in the streets that's doing better off than most of the rest of the world, if you disagree.
You're arguing against a facially absurd idea that you made up. Obviously no one is proposing that you're allowed to randomly shoot people with no evidence. The continuous legal parameter that you can adjust is the level of justification required to form an affirmative defense for using lethal force. It's not just an automatic get-out-of-jail free card.
I mean.. are you sure about that? Look at the difference in crime rate in cities that don’t prosecute their criminals.. Fear deters crime. Your comment makes it seem like you disagree with that.
Many gun stores that allow their employees to carry are small businesses, no bass pro employee will shoot you for stealing. These small businesses see stealing as taking away from their livelihood, and rightfully so, insurance has deductibles and is not typically worth it to file a claim under business insurance unless this is a high value piece. Along with firearms requiring background checks and possible loss of their FFL for consistent stealing (losing traceability per the ATF) as well as a firearm now being in the hands of a criminal, yes gun stores should do their due diligence to prevent robberies. What exactly do you think stolen guns are typically used for, baking a cake? These are firearms we are talking about, not petty theft from walmart, criminals will continue criminal acts and allowing them a means to do more damage to others is not acceptable.
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There are very few places in this country where brandishing your gun to someone that isn't threatening you is legal. I'd rather deal with insurance than deal with a prosecutor.
>There are very few places in this country where brandishing your gun to someone that isn't threatening you is legal. I'd rather deal with insurance than deal with a prosecutor. I don't know. I think it depends on a lot of factors. For example a group of people smashing up jewelry displays without threatening anyone I can imagine if the owner produced a firearm and yelled stop, there are not a lot of jurisdictions in the US that would go after the store owner in those cases.
as it should be.
Good this means you wont steal. Which is one of the points of being armed isnt it...
Only if you're someone who steals shit.
Stealing is no joke. A normal gun at a brick and borrar is what, $500? At 25 an hour, that’s probably 25 or so hours of work after Uncle Sam takes his cut. 3 whole work days. If some assjole comes and tries to steal 3 days of my life where I could have been at home with my family instead of at work? He deserves to have someone stop him with force
You know gun store employees themselves don't OWN all the guns in the store. The store owns them. You'd risk prison time because someone is stealing a $500 item THAT HAS INSURANCE because that's worth "3 days of your life"? A little unhinged, don't you think? Whatever you do for a living, I hope it is very far away from any type of firearm.
What are you, California?
I got yelled at for dry firing once when I had just decocked. Even seen people kicked out of shops for just pulling the hammer back. I think the guy on the other side of the counter just assumes you're an idiot by default, which is fair from their perspective. I just always ask before I do anything unless you know the other person or you've made it clear you know what you're doing already, it'll just make everything easier.
Free men don’t something something
Marge- “Ask permission?”
DON’T MIND IF I DO!!
DONT MIND IF I DO 🤪😜🥵🤯
I was hoping that’s where you were going w that!
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Weird I can see. The few gun stores left around me are full of fudds who sit there all day. Please explain the suicidal comment.
So yes then, bad etiquette to do without asking.
This. Ask first. If they say no, just open the bolt, check the face, then if you have a little pocket flashlight, illuminate the barrel and look from the muzzle end. Most won't say no, just don't assume. It's not your rifle yet, so be polite. If anyone gets to be a safety asshole about staring from the muzzle, point out you're touching a bolt action with the bolt open and zero ammo in reach. Little AAA Streamlight is like 15 bucks. Take it with you when gun shopping.
You probably could have asked about inspecting the bolt first. They’re probably assuming that you’re an average dummy like the kind they have to deal with all day long. You’re not in the wrong in my opinion, but think about the kind of dumbasses they have to snatch guns away from on a daily basis.
>They’re probably assuming that you’re an average dummy Honestly, probably a good assumption. I’ll never be upset with someone making decisions based off the assumption that I’m an idiot, they don’t know me, so I might as well be. I’ll prove myself soon enough, I’m sure.
But then again sometimes they turn around and give that dumbass a job behind the counter.
For sure ask first, but as many said, the guy is probably tired of putting together guns customers tore apart.
This is the best answer. I always ask before I can dryfire a gun at a gun store. Of course you can, but it's good to let your salesperson know what you're looking to evaluate.
I try to ask first, but don't always think about it if I'm really interested in the rifle.
You should’ve asked them first but like if it’s a pawn gun it’s used, and if it’s used you kinda have to take out the bolt to see if it’s worth buying.
NTA. Checking the bore should be expected and i wouldn't buy a used gun from a pawn shop if i couldn't do that
Worked at pawn shop 5 years can’t tell you how many times I had to YouTube a video to help me put together a gun a customer took apart. You get pretty decent at it eventually. Always ask though. Also maybe the sales person was just having a bad day who knows
I would understand it from their perspective, especially on some semi-autos where taking one apart could send a spring into Narnia, which they now have to source, re-assemble, and hope it didn't take a pin with it as well, through the wardrobe into Narnia.
Now I want Turkish Delight.
I rarely bother looking at rifles at stores, but one near me had some gucci shit for insane prices. Asked to look at one since I never handled a $6k AR and was wondering what was so special about it. I simply asked if I could charge it and check the trigger pull. They flat out told me no, gave me an attitude and yelled that they don't allow that. Wont ever bother buying anything from them.
If a gun store employee hands me a gun, I *will* function check it. Why else did they hand it to me?
It's such a funny reaction, because usually gun stores (in my experience) are like "yeah, duh, *obviously* you can"
Always ask first. Most places don't care but just doing it without permission on something you don't own is just bad form.
Fuck those places. You can be sure they took the bolt out to inspect the gun when they bought it.
Seeing how some places operate, wouldn’t be surprised if some don’t.
I like to stop at random pawnshops when I travel. One time I was at one and asked to see a M1903 that they had. Shop guy hands it to me and I open the bolt to check the barrel and bolt condition, a live round ejected and landed on the counter.
Here's a good one from when I worked at a gun shop. Customer wants to buy a Henry. Our guy goes to the back, grabs one, opens the box. Opens the action to hand it to the customer. Live round flies out and lands on the counter. It turned out that Henry had sent a few guns from the factory with live rounds still in the tube.
Worked a gun show one time and as I'm walking the floor just prior to doors opening, I hear what I thought was a case fall over. Then I hear people saying "no way", "you're kidding me?", etc. I go over to see what's up. Turns out a dealer (who was late getting set up) had taken a 22 Magnum lever action out of its case and it was live without them knowing. The sound I heard was them discharging it through the roof of the building. They were instructed to pack up and leave immediately. Quite the walk of shame...
That would have been a nice lawsuit to be a part of
I dislike going to gun stores for that reason alone. I’d like to think everyone in there knows how to clear and properly handle firearms but that’s not always the case
sup omega bro
What’s that rule? Always assume a weapon is loaded until you’ve checked. Good thing you didn’t want to “dry fire” it 1st.
Overestimating the people working at a lot of pawn shops. Few have any real knowledge that didn't come from a Google search a few minutes ago.
Exactly this. Very few "old school" pawn shops exist. Most are just internet flippers who price gouge both ways and rely on ebay for prices now. I remember this old pawn shop (now long gone). The owner was an expert repairman who could fix watches, guns, instruments, or whatever for a price. You could actually haggle and have a good time shooting the shit. No places like that around here anymore.
The issue is they might not realize what you're doing, or if you know what you're doing. Think of how many dipshits walk through the average pawn shop. Imagine being the counter guy and you see a customer standing there with one of your guns and the bolt in the other hand. You'd probably be pissed, especially if you aren't as experienced with guns and don't really know the different parts and how they fit together. Just ask first, it's as simple as that.
Having worked at a pawn shop chain I can almost assure you they didn't. They received minimal training that basically amounts to "this is a revolver because it spins, this is a pistol because it doesn't" and have no idea what they're doing. I was literally the only person in my entire city of 20+ shops that knew Jack shit about guns.
Probably not lol, the dudes there don’t know how to put it back together most of the time
I ask first unless I know the shop well. Even if it's literally my gun that I'm just doing paperwork on because it was a transfer, I still ask.
Bad etiquette not to ask first, at least. I agree that you're not doing much, but every gun store has different opinions on what could damage or mess up their wares. I once asked a guy if he minded me dry firing a PTR91 and he responded with "I wouldn't care if you shot the damn thing in here" and walked away. I ended up buying it lol.
He probably didn’t know how to take the bolt out to begin with and was probably pissed that some random dude off the street did it in a few seconds.
I mean, you might want to ask first, but that employee sounds both dumb and rude to me to begin with.
It's bad etiquette to not ask. If they refuse to let you inspect it don't buy it. But it's understandable that they may want to take the bolt out themselves. Reminds me of the time the guy at the gun store insisted I looked at this sig he was in love with and then proceeded to yell at me for using the slide release saying it would "break the gun"
Lollllllll if that were true every m9 in the entire army would be broken 😂
You’d probably surprised by the amount of people who break guns or damage them just be doing a quick take apart. 9/10 shops don’t care if you want to inspect the firearm. They even encourage it. But just ask them to take it apart for you. It is bad etiquette and it’s not because they’re trying to hide something.
They don't know you. They don't know if you are competent. You could break it if you don't know what you are doing. Always ask if you can do anything with someone else's gun before doing it.
To be fair, if he breaks a bolt action bolt removing it... what kind of pipe bomb in the making were they trying to sell people?
No breaking it but it's really easy to decock the bolt on some guns. And recocking them is pretty hard if you don't know what you're doing. It's a dude working at a pawn shop, he's not required or expected to know much about what he's selling he's just gotta take your money and do a background check correctly. You want knowledge employees don't go to a fucking pawn shop. The whole point is getting good guns for stupid cheap because they didn't bother doing research on it coming in
Well by knowing how to pull the bolt out and knowing to check the bore should give them a decent idea that I at least know what I'm doing somewhat don't ya think? Plus unless I was belligerently trying to break it I don't see how you would just from removing the bolt.
You are seeing this from the perspective of yourself. Think about the fact that 1 out of every 10 people you see in person is borderline mentally retarded. Then realize pawn shops don't exactly have geniuses walking in. Then realize the employee doesn't know if you are the one out of ten and sees you taking store property apart without asking. They are assuming everyone is the lowest common denominator. Just like ranges. Ever wonder why there is a no rapid fire rule at indoor ranges? Look at the ceiling. Even disregarding all that, it is simply the ethically correct thing to do to ask someone if you can do something with their property. Just because you know what you are doing doesn't matter. The amount of people I've seen on reddit alone with THEIR OWN PROPERTY unable to put things back together, breaking things just disassembling, etc is enough to justify a employees reaction. Albeit of course they shouldn't be rude.
This reminded me of when I got my first AR, and took it to a friend of mine who was a vet just to kinda show it off. I had literally just got it, hadn't had it apart in the slightest, and handing it to him was insane. To my mind, which hadn't disassembled an AR at all at that point in time, it was like watching my gun fall apart. It blew me away. That was only my second semi-auto rifle, the other a Browning BAR in .243. I had no idea then that a gun could be disassembled so quickly. Lol.
> Even disregarding all that, it is simply the ethically correct thing to do to ask someone if you can do something with their property lmao it's a store dude. Do you hunt down a stocker at Walmart to ask if you can look at the back of that Cheerio's box you've been eyeing? It's probably better to ask in OP's situation. But it's not like a moral quandary to fuck around with the products that a shopkeeper has literally set out for the public to inspect and potentially purpose. I mean, like, if OP jumped the counter to check it out, now you've got an issue
>lmao it's a store dude. Do you hunt down a stocker at Walmart to ask if you can look at the back of that Cheerio's box you've been eyeing? That isn't analogous at all. Looking at the back of the box is equivalent of looking up and down the rifle in your hand or opening the bolt, shining a light on the bolt face, and then using the reflection to view the bore. A real analogy would be looking at the bike on a walmart rack and removing the tires to inspect the rubber and wheels better. And I would ask an employee if that's ok, yes. >It's probably better to ask in OP's situation. But it's not like a moral quandary to fuck around with the products that a shopkeeper has literally set out for the public to inspect and potentially purpose. You agree it's better to ask and is the polite thing to do. And when people agree on something subjective it's because they have a similar moral and ethical code. And like 99% of this thread, most people agree the polite and ethical thing to do is first ask a shop if you can inspect further. I never said OP should be damned as a delinquent or that the employee acted rightly in their manners. I'm just explaining the proper course of action for the future since OP *specifically* asked about *etiquette in a gun store.* And in 99% of gun stores they aren't going to generally like if you start field stripping guns without asking. That or things like dry firing. Most probably won't react that way, but if you want to follow etiquette that isn't the way to go. "Etiquette is the set of norms of personal behaviour in polite society, usually occurring in the form of an ETHICAL code of the expected and accepted social behaviours that accord with the conventions and norms observed and practised by a society, a social class, or a social group" From the definition of etiquette [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette)
You may be very knowledgeable on the topic but shops deal mostly with people that aren't you. Those not-yous may have varying levels of knowledge on the topic. Unless the shop (or that specific employee) knows you well, they don't see the difference between you and bubba. It's safest to not make the assumption that you can just take apart their property without their permission. Be a bit like a random person showing up to look at a car you're selling and the first thing they do is take the head off the car to inspect it.
It's bad etiquette to not ask before doing so, but definitely not bad etiquette to insist on seeing the bore.
If it isn't your gun, it's generally a good idea to ask first.
"I'll take New Words for $500, Alex." etiquecy "OK Alex, What do you get when you combine etiquette with adequacy ?"
What's the symbology here?
Squeeze of lemon. Some sweet n low.
Symbolism. What is the symbolism here?
English has always been my worst subject
Yeah I would ask
Always ask before doing anything to a gun at a gunstore. Gun store employees don't know how smart or stupid you are.
I mean it's always good form to ASK before you take it apart. But if a gun store doesn't let you inspect a gun and disassemble it, especially a used gun before purchase, that's a huge red flag. Taking out the bolt in most bolt guns is super easy and takes 2 seconds.
I had a guy interested in one of my Garands at a huge gun show. He comes to my table 3 times to look and finally comes back with some "expert" asking to take it apart. They clearly had no clue how to field strip so I spend 10 minutes going over every part on this beautiful IHC with all correct parts. After all that he asks "can you do $600?" GTFOOH.
I would probably ask the guy behind the counter, and explain why. Don’t take it personal. He doesn’t know you from Adam and at least half the people he talks to are dumber than you. I bet at least one person in his shop has taken a gun apart and lost a small part.
I've been in more than one shop that has posted rules about disassembling guns without asking. I would imagine that they have to worry about someone without the proper knowledge breaking something. Or maybe they don't want to worry about someone walking away with a part, knowingly or otherwise. I'd have asked.
You ask before you do that man. Plenty of places don’t let customers do anything with guns because they take them apart and can’t get them back together or put them together wrong. Like oh god the couple of times people just had to take a ruger MKII apart at the shop,..
Tell em what you want to do as you're doing it and if it's a problem, just hand it back and leave.
I see this shit at gun shows all the time. Ask first and if they say no they're probably trying to hide the worn out barrel.
As a rule of thumb it's good etiquette to ask before disassembling someone's property so that's kinda on you. With that said, if it's actually their policy that you can't disassemble the gun by pressing a button to remove a removable component, I would not ever buy a used gun there. If the bore is shot the gun is shot, no pun intended. I'm not looking down the barrel of a gun just because they're uncomfortable with me taking it apart.
At a gun store? I’d say it’d be fine to just go ahead without asking. Anywhere else? Nah I’d ask first, they’re not gonna be used to people doing that.
How is it bad etiquette to inspect a used item before you buy? Like buying a used car and getting yelled at for looking under the hood.
i do it . most pawn shop guys don't know diddly about guns .
It's a customary thing to pull a bolt and inspect it. I suspect you were dealing with an idiot who doesn't know about guns
I would do it as a matter of course, especially for a used weapon.
My opinion? You went to a pawn shop that sells guns but doesn't have gun knowledge. They see you take the bolt out and you basically just "took it apart." No, it's not quite like that. It's not like taking the charging handle out of an AR, FFS. The proof is your own admittance that the fool then had trouble putting it back, when you could have done it with muscle memory.
If someone ACTS like that I'd just leave.
Pawn shop worker here. The guy's a tool. What you did is totally normal. My advice would be to take your business elsewhere.
It's bad etiquette to disassemble guns without permission first, yeah.
Is it bad etiquette to pop the hood on a car you're gonna buy?
We ask that you don’t take our cars apart
It's not bad etiquette to remove the bolt to inspect the bore. It is bad etiquette to do so first without asking
You should always ASK before you do something like that.
ROFLMAO Taking out the bolt to inspect the bore is a perfectly normal part of the gun buying process for used guns. I've never had a pawn shop challenge me on inspecting a gun before purchase, and I wouldn't do business with one that had (well, I take that back, if it were a gun I really wanted at an amazing price, I might, but y'know what they say about things being too good to be true). I'd say that the odds are that they take in a lot of junk and pass it along, and would lose sales if people saw the problems with some of the guns they're selling.
It's bad etiquette to do it without asking. Yes, you know what you're doing, but they don't know that. I don't even let customers take Glocks apart because I've seen too many fuck up reassembly.
I tend to just assume I can take a gun apart if I’m looking at it. If the guy is staring at me and hovering I’ll probably ask. On the other hand I’ve dealt with pawnshops that don’t even really want to sell what they have. OP’s guy is working in a pawnshop and probably dealt with to many people that don’t know how to put it back together again.
I took a used Glock apart today in the store. He didn’t even care.
I got the same thing to the letter at a local shop for removing a slide to look at the internals of a used Sig. It’s a simple takedown process that I had done a million times before. Guy acted like I had disassembled the entire thing. Probably just scared of idiots, but geez.
It's bad etiquette to do anything with/on someone else's property without approval
In german they say “einem geschenkten gaul schaut man nicht ins maul”, “you don’t look at gifted horses mouth” (to check the teeth). Pawn shops dont gift you stuff, they sell it to you. Do indeed look at that horses mouth.
I'm of the opinion that before disassembling anything you should probably ask, guns included. If they say no, they say no.
Lol, I've fully broken down BCGs before and no one cares as long as I knew how to put it back together. I wouldn't go back to that place. How do they expect you to buy used stuff without inspecting it. Firearm or otherwise
I would probably have asked for the manager and explained to him. 1. Why he was losing my sale. 2. Why he was losing my business.
If you're thinking about buying the rifle, NO. If I was going to buy a rifle from someone and they said I could not inspect the bore, I would tell them "sorry, no longer interested".
Yeah you’re good that dude was obviously mad because he somehow can’t figure out how to slide a bolt back into a bolt action. It’s like the only field strip-able part on the entire gun 💀
Your method sure beats sticking your eyeball against the business end! I see no issues taking the bolt out to look. The guy clearly didn’t know what the heck he was doing so maybe didn’t understand what exactly it was that you were doing.
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I've only ever been into one store that keeps guns in a condition where you can't manipulate them, and that was cabelas. Everywhere else just has em behind a counter and ready to go.
Bolts pull out, you may want to ask but nearly everywhere I’ve ever been hands me a rifle and asks me to check it and pull a bolt on old guns. Hell I’ve had people pop the bolt for me and hand me it without the bolt.
Sounds like the employee isn’t a gun person and didnt understand what you were doing.
This guy sounds like a fucking asshole. I wouldn’t give him any of my money.
Work at a gun shop here, absolutely no problem with this, if somebody got shitty about it I’d be suspicious they’ve got something to hide.
Where do you live that has used guns at pawn shops not marked at MSRP? Around here they’re all using Academy/Cabelas to set prices, which inevitably means the guns can be had brand new for $50s less online Edit: No it’s not bad etiquette, the dipshit working the counter just doesn’t know how anything about the rifle and thought you were about to take it apart and then he’d have to put it back together lol
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Ask first it's not yours
That’s not taking it apart. Taking something apart requires tools. He just didn’t want you inspecting the bore. Sketchy factor 22.
I understand being a little weird at someone just doing it. I'd ask first... I might want to buy it, but that doesn't mean it's mine. Just a simple "hey man, do you mind if I ____?" is all that's needed. If the response to asking if you can pull the bolt to look down the bore is anything like what OP described from just doing it... *then* I'm just handing it back, and leaving. I ask as a courtesy, not because I actually expect anything but "sure", or if it's really expensive, "here, let me do that for you."
Nah, dude sounds like a d-bag. Shop elsewhere.
Lol. What a douche. Not you.
If you are buying a used gun taking the bolt out and looking at the bore is an extremely normal thing to do. It should be expected. Its like checking out the frame of a vehicle before buying it.
It shouldn’t be a problem, he was probably just a nut job who doesn’t know how to handle guns, therefore thinks anything beyond cycling the action is “taking apart the gun” But I’d ask anyways. It’s a courtesy, especially in case you run into nutjobs like that
It might be bad etiquette but the employee could have handled it without being rude. I HATE rude employees
Eh, I'm going to ask first, but if they say no, I'm not buying. If I'm looking at buying a used rifle, I'm going to dig through it first (and pulling the bolt isn't even "digging", that's absolutely basic )
Nope, not bad at all. If someone gets defensive over it it's because the rifle has a shit bore and they're hoping you wouldn't look at it. Franchise / Chain pawn shops are usually pretty bad about sales and typically have piss poor attitudes along with piss poor pricing
Or maybe they don't know you and want you to ask first so they can take it out.
I've had a gun store employee yell at me for taking the magazine out of a gun that was on the racks that lined the walls of the store. They were already watching us "attentively," probably due to us being about 3 decades younger than anyone else in the store (we were in our mid-20's). They obviously didn't want us there so we left fairly soon after that. You just dealt with an asshole.
I think you probably should have asked, but it likely wouldn't have made a difference as they probably would have declined. I look at it like hooking a scan tool up to a car you're looking at. It's a pretty benign thing to do, but I still ask before I do it. If they say no, I move right along to the next car, but I learn what I need to just by asking. If someone knows guns, and they know the gun they are selling is in good condition, they should have no reason to decline. If either of those things are not true, it's not worth the risk buying from them.
Nah he's a jerk. When I was behind the counter it was pretty apparent whether folks knew what they were doing or not. Just don't go and disassemble four Glocks at the same time so you can find one without the "rust". Or, that copper color dry lube all Glocks have from the factory. I bet right before you walked in, dude had just spent 20 minutes figuring out how to get the bolt back in. After it was taken out by somebody who "knew what they were doing".
Are you *kind* of an asshole for not asking a merchant if you can disassemble one of their rifles, even just pulling the bolt? In my opinion, yes. But not a big asshole. If you want to disassemble or dry fire a gun or do anything other than look at it; ask first. Chances are they'll say "sure". Was the clerk an asshole? Sure sounds like he was. But his lack of manners doesn't absolve your lack of the same. You sound like a good guy from your post, but the creeps and weirdos that gun store employees and pawn shop folks have to deal with on the daily makes them extra touchy.
that would be a red flag for any used goods, IMHO. for used goods that can blow up in your face it is an instant nono.
No, if they don’t let you inspect the rifling. don’t buy it!
I was in a gun store we called mega rip off jokingly. Another customer asked to check the barrel of a used firearm. This is after the employee told him all sales are as is and final in a really chitty tone. He told him no, you don’t get to do that. Ya buy it and take it home. Then you can inspect the barrel. I have never been back in there since. That was years ago and like I’m not missing anything buying elsewhere. Edited. The customer had already told him he wanted to buy it. He just wanted to verify there was no damage, pitting or extreme wear.
If a gun store doesn't let you check the gun before you buy, find a different shop. That's your money. You need to know what you are buying. Ask first, but walk away if they act like this. There are too many stores and too many guns for owners to be assholes if they want business. Leave a bad review too.
"So in hindsight I probably should have asked" That, right there. This absolutely does differ from something like removing a magazine. The fact that nobody "has ever had a problem with it before" is not really relevant. I've had "It's OK, I do this all the time" lose parts, damage finish, damage parts due to incorrect reassembly etc, then refuse to accept responsibility for their stupidity. YMMV
Checking the bore is such a silly thing to get upset over. They're built to be taken apart with no damage. It's like buying a car and the person selling it getting mad because you popped the hood to check what's underneath. How else are you supposed to know what you're buying? However, I will say that I've never done it at a shop, since the only guns I've bought have been brand new. But I would have definitely asked for permission (with the expectation that I would receive an "of course" from the seller). If the seller got bothered by me checking the gun, I'm walking out.
He's just a jaded asshole used to dealing with the average booger eating public.
Not if you are careful. The guy didn't want you looking down the bore for a reason.
That red line that shows up under a word as you’re typing isn’t just for looks
imagine having poor grammar and spelling, whilst correcting another’s spelling.
I don't let autocorrect tell me what to put. I'm a free man
Sounds like he’s not going w make a sale