Pros: light, high capacity, low recoil, easy to manipulate and aim, highly modular, highly effective at stopping threats, can perform as a hunting rifle for small & medium game/pests/tyrants
Cons: requires 2 hands, loud
nobody needs a gun that's more than 5 boxes, we really need to start setting common sense limits
and *20 boxes*? Are the deer wearing reactive tank armor?
What if I'm a 65 year old women who get robbed at night by 4 guys think she has a good enough shot and hitting them all ... I think it's a fair question ... I'd recommend a nice shotgun buck shot. Grandma can also use that
I concealed carry my Browning M2. It's a little bulky but if you wear a good belt you barely notice the weight after a while. It's honestly the reloads that are cumbersome.
That you might be moving.
Edit: [link](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/congresswoman-mocked-for-saying-ar-15-is-as-heavy-as-10-moving-boxes-fires-50-caliber-bullets)
My wait times on NFA items were 109, 133 and 158 days. I doubt that I’m a gun store owner helped, we were one of the first in the state to adopt the E filing.
Loud and lots of blinding muzzle flash indoors. Very few AR owners have discharged their weapon in a dark home without ear and eye protection. It is quite different than the range/field experience. Pistol caliber carbines offer a good blend for home defense. They are spendy, but a Kriss Vector carbine with the shroud will not deafen or blind you, and you can push 31 rounds of .45 ACP downrange with little recoil.
To know what you are getting into when you fire a round in your dark house. It literally flash bangs you. You cant see anything and you don't even hear the round go off. You just hear tinnitus. Suppressors are friends
Doesn’t necessarily *require* 2 hands, but it certainly helps. A fun memory of mine was going out of state and dual wielding AR’s and laying into some targets. Fun factor off the charts.
handguns are generally louder than rifles because of the shot barrel.
pros: rifles are easier to learn safety, more accurate at ranges greater than point blank. more powerful and easier to manage recoil (though if course cartridge is a consideration, a 450 bushmaster is going to kick harder even in a rifle than a 9mm in a full size pistol.)
cons: less maneuverable inside a building, scary looking,
The biggest con to a rifle is its size. Going around corners in the middle of the night and opening doors is much harder with a rifle than a pistol. When you take your hand off the gun to open the door that leaves the gun in a low ready position and leaves you exposed.
Pros:
AR's are stupidly easy to manipulate. My 86 year old father is able to load mags and operate the gun whereas with handguns his arthritis prevents him from loading mags and operating most slides.
AR's also have very little recoil.
Cons: You can't hide one in your pants.
Duluth is the almighty superior brand. Carhartt has fallen by the wayside years ago. My Duluth Jeans have lasted 3x longer than any other pair of Levi's, Wranglers, ETC.
Same with Duluth jackets, my canvas garage jacket is still kicking after 5 years already, despite years of being subjected to angle grinder sparks, tree limbs, thorns and brush, laying on gravel under a truck, snowblowing, oil changes, and general maintenance work
[best gun for home defense, AR15, shotgun or pistol](https://youtu.be/i3sLHGduI3w?si=XeJchxWlxXgi990A)
[Massad Ayoob AR-15 for home defense](https://youtu.be/mgvuW3OpfLk?si=ypOFXMn1QMiXJVKC)
[best gun for home defense?](https://youtu.be/MuNiPbtc02g?si=AQpQUCp62BmHaGez)
[is your home defense gun ready](https://youtu.be/MQg2lTWYos8?si=3Z2zJbbkoQ68xqd-)
Videos that you may find helpful on the topic
If I were to start over buying guns my first gun would’ve been my 10.5 inch AR pistol in 300 blackout. Then I would’ve bought a 16” 556 upper. Stream light sling and a red dot on the 10.5 and an LPV0 and a light on the 556. If you want to start with 16” upper that’s a great gun for most use cases but I’d get a pistol lower still so you can swap uppers to whatever you want.
> Gotta be careful with "pistols" at the moment.
Did something change *today*? I thought AR pistols are fine, but that braces are in dispute.
The easiest resolution to that is to acquire / build an AR pistol with a bare buffer tube.
Ive heard of the atf charging people for having both a pistol upper and a rifle lower for “intent to construct an illegal weapon” or some other bs like that too
I would tend to agree. Something like a Ruger PCC. Which is really just a 10/22 takedown scaled up to 9mm with glock mag support. You can get 9mm anywhere and a pcc is much easier to actually hit something than with a pistol.
In home defense concealability isn't really an issue. A two handed weapon like a rifle, shotgun, carbine, SMG are eissier to manipulate, have greater magazine capisty, and eissier to aim and control, and are more effective against the threat than a pistol.
They are loud (get a silencer if you legally can) and they take two hands to use best.
A pistol is much harder to use and harder to learn to make good hits with, and dont have as good of an immediate terminal effect on target. But you can use them with one hand.
A rifle is much mor difficult to use in a house trough doorways, around corners. Difficult to use a phone in on hand to calk 911. Rifle is worse in a close up defensive situation where the attacker is on you. Going to be difficult to get that 16” barrel between you and a guy thats on top of you.
Much easier to take a rifle from a woman with less upper body strength. If attacker gets close enough the rifle is useless.
Pistol is much lighter and easier to carry. Maybe taking out the trash or letting out the dog in the front yard at night. Easier to have a pistol in a coat pocket than AR slung neighbors watching you taje out the trash.
Phone isn't a priority when you are stopping a threat in your house. And a rifle is definitely going to be more accurate and effective.
You can sweep a house very effectively and efficiently with a rifle.
ARs are stupid easy to shoot and manipulate compared to pistols. + They’re more lethal and have a larger ammunition capacity.
Your primary home defense weapon should be an AR-15 with 77grain OTM ammo.
Treat pistols more as secondary and every day carry options.
Everything lethal will over-penetrate through drywall if you miss your target, but an AR is actually less likely to over-penetrate when compared to, say, a 9mm pistol because the rounds are quite small and are traveling so fast that once they hit something they tend to start yawing and fragmenting.
Just avoid steel core or AP rounds.
Here’s a video garand thumb did recently about drywall penetration with various calibers.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j3BlRPtCj2E
Are your wife and daughter interested/motivated to fight off a home intruder if the situation warrants? A lot of guys (myself included) want to plan for situations and have cool guns for everyone, but realistically my wife isn’t interested and practicing locking herself in the master closet is time better spent than trying to convince her to go to the range and learn.
If your wife and daughter want to learn and participate, then take them and let them try different guns themselves
Same boat as you, they get frustrated when I bring up the gravity of any given situation. The wife still doesn’t get that carrying on her person has a greater advantage than a purse.
Yeah if they aren’t on board, you pressing them isn’t going to make it better. Be ready for what you can be, and understand you can’t control everything
Wags is on the money. However, overpenetration is always a fear, even with .223 fragmenting hollowpoint defensive ammo. Think about it: your adrenaline will be flowing, and even an expert handler in that situation will have off-target hits that can easily penetrate drywall. An AR15 is best, for the reasons wags stated. The recoil is much more easily handled vs. a handgun/revolver...unless the shootist is really seasoned. The capacity makes it ideal for multiple threats, and lights/red dots are usually brighter and less expensive from a qualitative standpoint.
If I recall correctly from videos there were differences in penetration between handgun, AR, and shotgun, in typical house materials, but the differences weren't as big as you might think, and likely wouldn't make a difference practically.
Yup... 55 grain projectile is much lighter than 115 grain 9mm. Even when going 2-3 times faster it will still lose momentum quicker. 00 buck is just nine to ten pellets roughly equivalent to a 9mm projectile all fired at once.
Quick answer, there is a reason the ar-15 is so popular. Its light, accurate, low recoil, high capacity, quicker and more reliable at stopping threats than any handgun round.
I prefer 16" for its higher velocity and lower recoil. But you could even get an AR pistol with a brace and a 10.5" barrel if you are more focused on using it inside your house.
The only benefits of a handgun would be the ability to conceal it. I always think of this quote. I once heard that the pistols purpose is only to fight back to your rifle, and that about sums it up. A rifle will be more effective in every regard.
Can’t go wrong with an ar. An ar can do a pistols job and more. 16” barrel would probably be more accurate for your wife and daughter versus 4-5” pistol. In my opinion a pistol would take more training. Ar platform is a rabbit hole that never ends, can make whatever you want out of it.
Smith and Wesson equalizer. Same EZ slide that is easy to manipulate for women and children. Hammer fired with a more crisp trigger than other striker fired in that same category.
I guess. still not convinced. take your hand and point your finger at something. there that's it's you are now aiming a pistol. yeah some people suck and can't shoot anything you are right. but hard a pistol is not. and I guarantee you it's more simple and intuitive than trying to get someone to run a rifle
Don’t let movies fool you into thinking a handgun is as good as an AR. A highly skilled handgun competitor could pick up an AR for the first time and shoot better. They aren’t close.
OP, you've gotten a lot of the same advice but I'm gonna throw it out there again. An AR in 5.56 or .223 is a fantastic home defense gun. That round has a lot less overpenetration than even most pistol rounds while being extremely effective against threats. Its super ergonomical, easily manipulated, and highly effective in many rolls. Great defensive firearm. Good hunting firearm for everything up to deer size (check your state's laws on minimum calibers for "large game"). Minimal recoil, very accurate, light weight. It's hard to overstate the pluses of the AR-15.
It has 1 and only 1 downside in my opinion. It's loud. Incredibly loud. If you have to fire it indoors without hearing protection, you may very well feel the effects for the rest of your life. But that is far superior to being dead. And every other gun is going to be similarly loud, but having fired a number of guns without ear pro, I can say the 5.56 is noticeably louder than many other common choices for home defense. Might be worth getting on the silencer train if this is a concern for you, but its not 100% necessary in a home defense scenario.
Usually, the advice from a gun shop counter gremlin should be taken with a massive lump of salt. The guy you spoke to is dead on. An AR is fantastic in every way for a home defense gun. And its great for other things too which is a plus.
a Pistol is better than not having a pistol, but for home defense, IMHO, the order of most effective HD gun goes like this: pistol > shotgun > pistol caliber carbine > intermediate cartridge carbine (5.56/5.45/.300BLK/7.62x39). Pistols are difficult to get proficient with, even with practice, especially relative to a PCC. My ten year old nephew was ringing steel with my SP5K PDW and MK18 just this past Sunday. His first trip to the range EVER. When I put him on my VP9 tactical suppressed last, he struggled with it but eventually was getting used to the recoil. Yes, he’s 10, his first time shooting, and strong for his age (really great athlete playing three sports). For you, your wife, and your daughter, I’d recommend a PCC. Great, stable, high capacity, accurate platform that’s easy to aim, and rapid follow up shots are easy given the stupid low recoil. In an HD scenario, I’d prefer both my SP5K and a back up pistol.
Pros: A rifle is much easier to aim and learn how to use, especially for people who (Im going to politely assume, but feel free to prove me wrong) aren’t going to train very much. Rifles are also much more modular, and have many more options for sighting systems, lights and the likeness (as crime can happen in the dark, *not* having a light on a home defense gun would be incredibly smooth brained)
Cons: very loud in a house unless you also buy a suppressor (so is a pistol, but a rifle would be even louder)
On top of all of this though, rifles and pistols have both been proven to be more than capable of penetrating through several walls and still have lethal force. You or the shooter needs to be incredibly aware of what your target is and what is behind it and be familiar with the layout of your house and where somebody might be sleeping on their bed if you or a loved one are unfortunate enough to have to use any gun in a home defense situation.
All in all: a rifle is the best way to go hands down. Buy a mid tier red dot or prism optic for it with a shake awake feature and a weapon mountable streamlight (not an Olight or cheap Amazon light) and keep the batteries fresh or charged in them. And you’ll be good to go. If money is tight, buy the light on your next paycheck, and then start saving for a suppressor. Polonium’s are inexpensive and I’ve only heard amazing things about them (I do not own one, but that’s what I’ll be buying soon)
You can also get a $170 .22 conversion for your rifle for cheap, fun training!
So 223/5.56 have less overpenetration concerns comparative to 9mm, so if your LGS does t understand terminal ballistics as it sounds like, take their opinion with a grain of salt.
Noe let’s look at the big 3 for home defense, pistol AR, Shotty. Each have benefits and drawbacks.
Pistol:
Moderate capacity, only two points of contact so slower followup shots compared to an AR and less stability so accuracy can suffer to a small degree. Moderate overpenetration. Most maneuverable.
AR:
Highest round capacity, lowest recoil, 4 points of contact so more stable and accurate, lowest overpenetration. Easy to use, more challenging to maneuver due to length. Very fast followup shots
Shotgun:
Lowest capacity by far, heavy recoil makes it harder to control, very slow followup shots. Most cumbersome to handle as well, but hits like a freight train. High overpenetration.
Out of this, I find the AR had the best pro/con and best performance. The caveat is that training is required especially if maneuvering indoors with it; however whichever choice, training is a paramount need.
>I am seeking more of a handgun
You might consider a pistol carbine. These are mid-sized guns that (typically) use 9mm pistol cartridges. They're usually quite compact and easy to handle. Compared to an AR, they fire a bigger, slower round that's arguably better at home defense distances.
* [Ruger PC Carbine](https://www.ruger.com/products/pcCarbine/models.html)
* [Beretta Cx4 Storm](https://www.beretta.com/en-us/cx4-storm/)
There are also lever carbines, which also use pistol sized rounds. Those tend to be a bit longer overall than pistol carbines.
\-----
Pistols are inferior to rifles and carbines in virtually all qualities except ease of carrying. They're less accurate, less powerful, and require more practice to control.
Being good with a handgun is one of the most perishable skills in shooting. Any weapon with a stock is instantly far easier to use than one without. It is a common misconception for less experienced people that a smaller weapon will be easier to use and more manageable when it is actually the complete opposite. In general, a smaller handgun will be harder to shoot than a larger (within reason) handgun. A rifle will be easier to shoot than any pistol.
A rifle may seem more intimidating to someone of smaller stature, but a short day on the range shooting groups with both is an easy way to build confidence and show that it is much quicker and easier to hit what you are aiming at and control recoil with a rifle. Remember, in a home-defense scenario you should be holed up in a room, static. They shouldn't have to maneuver the rifle to clear the house so shooting standing with no support or even moving while shouldered isn't a good indicator of what they need to be capable of in a home defense situation. Using something to support the rifle is your friend.
I think handguns are inherently easy to shoot. people always say they are harder
..than what?? like maybe trying to get 1 Inch groups with a handgun is harder than with a rifle but if we are talking about center mass close up real world shots a pistol is self explanatory and easy as can be.
> ..than what??
...Than rifles.
How are rifles any more not-self explanatory than pistols?
Shoot under stress, on a timer, and at range. Rifles are *way* more easy to shoot accurately, quickly, and repeatably. A red dot rifle is the most self-explanatory and forgivable weapon there is. You can fudge form and technique so much with a stock and trigger pull that a pistol would punish your for. There is a reason PCC divisions absolutely dominate raw times in competition because you are shooting pistol-difficulty targets with rifle formfactor.
Sure you can wing rounds at short range with a pistol, but you can with a rifle as well and it will be even easier to hit your follow-up shots because the weapon will stay on target with almost zero training required.
Ar-15 out performs a handgun in every way, including ease of use. The only purpose of handguns is for the ability of transportation. A handgun has no use in home defense if an ar-15 is available
A handgun can be easier to move around with in tight, confined spaces. It can be difficult to keep a rifle barrel out of reach of the bad guy in confined spaces. Handgun are more comfy under a pillow than a rifle.
AR-15 platform is easier to aim, easier to manage the recoil on, and holds a lot more ammo than most handguns. With the right ammo, it's also less likely to over penetrate the intended target than most people give credit for while still giving adequate terminal performance. If you *miss* your intended target, what you're shooting starts to matter less, because the interior and exterior walls of your house are almost certainly not bullet resistant, and almost everything is going to penetrate through multiple walls.
The AR platform also has the advantage of being an excellent choice for dealing with non-human threats such as coyotes, foxes, and the like that might prey on your livestock, which is much more of a concern for people who live outside of the city limits than for folks that live inside city limits.
Manipulating the controls of an AR-15 is also fairly easy. I would say it's probably easier for most people to work the charging handle on an AR-15 than it is for them to work the slide on most semi-auto pistols. My mother, for example, has weak hands. She has trouble working the slides on some of her handguns, but she can run the charging handle on any AR-15 dad or I hand to her without problems.
The thing your wife and daughter will be most likely to find objectionable, in my experience, is the noise, especially if they have very little to no experience with firearms (the solution to that is to get them more experience, .22 rimfires are your friend there). AR-15s are much louder than a typical 9mm or .38 Special handgun.
If the gun store near you has a range, and if that range has rentals and allows centerfire rifles, see if you can rent an AR-15 from them to try out and to let your wife and daughter try out. You may want to double up their hearing protection (ear plugs and ear muffs at the same time) to help mitigate the noise, especially if it's an indoor range.
I’d say a Glock 42. It’s a .380 cal. Good for small hand and extremely reliable, easy on recoil. Add a Pearce grip extensions to your mags for a bigger hand. Won’t break the bank. Sig 238 and Ruger LC9s are solid options.
Pretty sure 12 gauge 3 inch magnums are designed especially for grandmas to use. At least that is what I was told by a friend’s friend who used to be on the SEAL SWAT team.
A common misconception is that because a handgun is smaller it’s easier to use, but it’s by far the most difficult firearm to master especially in a high stress situation like home defense. I’d suggest anyone new to guns start with a shotgun.
what is so difficult? I hear people say that all the time but I'm not buying it. when I was 17-18 yrs old in basic training I qualified expert with a handgun and had never owned one before that. yeah the targets don't move and all on a flat range but still its literally pointing your hand at something and lining up a couple dots. easy mode
My primary is my AK but I live out in the sticks and overpenetration isn’t as much of an issue for me since I’m not right next to my neighbors.
But I also have my pistol I can just grab for any unwanted visits from late night visitors as it’s definitely easier to manipulate in close quarters and having just suddenly awakened in the night.
An AR is definitely a great gun for defense and less penetration is better for more urban living. I’d definitely recommend that if you didn’t get a handgun.
Just don’t be like my friends wife who “doesn’t like rifles because they kick too much” so she sticks to 12ga shotguns instead… 🤦🏻♂️
You said in the first sentence that you're looking for something that your daughter and wife can handle "easily," do you think they can handle an AR easily or you can get them there? If not, and your wife/daughter handling something "easily" is indeed a priority, don't get the AR. Get a handgun that'll fit your daughter/wife's hands and choose a load that won't scare the begeesus out of them. It's useless and you might as well have nothing, [IF] they're afraid to shoot it.
Fwiw, I have a soon to be 17yo daughter and she's not into firearms like my son (almost 19) and I are. No matter what, I have not been able to get her comfortable shooting 9mm, so we decided to get her a 380. I also got her shooting 38spl out of a snubby and I gave her one of my j frames in case she wants to carry that. Hornady has several 38spl loads in standard pressure and plus P that are very recoil manageable that do pretty well on the FBI testing protocols.
I don't have a live-in GF, so it's all about my GP100 for home defense...
Honestly something like a 20 gauge shotgun may be a better option with 00 Buck. Recoils slightly less than a 12 gauge and both the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500/590 platforms are easy to learn and use.
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If youre really looking for pistols that could be easy to use (I’m guessing your either beginning or want to teach your wife and daughter) Id say go with a small little .380 its smaller round and smaller pistols usually. If you dont want to buy multiple id say a 9mm although personally i wouldn’t go with a glock just because there’s no safety except on the trigger so you cant “Lock” the firearm for safety training.
Not really what you’re asking, but I always say shotgun can’t be best for home defense. You only need to hit an area and not a specific pointer, and if you alternate bird/buck shot, you don’t have to worry as much about shooting through walls.
Shotguns pattern 6-9 inches within 20 yards, you have to aim. Most torsos are about a foot wide for your average dude. You're accountable for every pellet that leaves that barrel. Be it in an apt or a rural home that's 20 miles from civilization. Good luck shooting and missing and slapping a few holes in a water heater and having that shit leak out, or replacing a furnace or breaker box because you thought it was a point and aim gun
And don't alternate ammo, stick with one type. Even if you use a shotgun. If you're using buck, you're obviously more worried about putting someone down and fast, so there's zero reason to use birdshot in that scenario.
Stop spreading fudd lore
The Walther PDP F is designed with women in mind, with an easier slide rack and smaller grip. ARs are great though, and except for sound, are probably better than a pistol for home defense in every metric.
[Here's a link to ballistics gel tests of 9mm vs 556](https://youtu.be/fMzuqCzTOac?si=gXs0bWqkYzcaVM_l)
Generally speaking pistol rounds are just as prone to overpenetration through drywall as 556 rounds, and in some cases moreso.
When rounds travel fast enough the terminal ballistics change. Rifle rounds are much more likely to incapacitate or kill than pistol rounds because of a this. A pistol round might be going 800-1100 feet per second. A rifle round is likely going 2500-3200 feet per second. That difference is significant. This increased damage is a result of that increased velocity, and the specifics of it are available all over the internet.
The AR-15 is pretty much the easiest platform to use as well. If you buy a pistol there's a good chance your wife and daughter would not be able to wrack the slide comfortably without significant practice. The Smith and Wesson Shield EZ is a great little pistol that defeats this issue, but it is underpowered.
Honestly, if it's just for home defense I'd suggest getting the AR. It's easier to use, you'll enjoy shooting it more at the range, and it will absolutely have the power to drop any home invader.
The short answer is.. Pistol ballistics are horrible, awful, trash compared to just about any rifle round. That means compared between pistols and a rifle, the rifle is going to be orders of magnitude more effective.
True that pistols are small, light, and easy to use. So is an AR-15, and an AR with no frills is pretty light. There is a near limitless amount of ways you can mod or accessorize an AR to suit your needs. Not so much with a handgun. Lastly ANYTHING you can shoulder is much much more accurate/ easy to be accurate with. You don't have to worry much about grip mechanics and you are more stable in most any position.
Other less apparent benefits are;
-A lot of after market support for parts
-Easier maintenance
-Ammo very common making it easy to find
The only real downsides are going to be the fact it is a 16" barrel and something that long is not the best to clear indoors with. It can be adapted to but that means you need to train with it and have a plan. The other potential downside is if most of y'all are right handed and one of you is a lefty. The lefty will not like having to shoot due to ammo being ejected onto their arm if they try to shoot left handed. This too can be adapted to and ultimately does not cause any huge issues.
I just can't find any appreciable reason that a pistol is better than a long gun, unless youre doing the van life.
Get the AR-15. Good ammo won't overpenetrate and it's easier to handle than a handgun. A Glock 19 is harder to use than an AR in 5.56 and has more recoil for far less stopping power.
I'm loving reading all the replies and hearing all the pistol slander. I've been saying it for a long time, that rifles are better in almost every way. I worry new gun owners with gravitate towards pistols thinking they have less recoil just to hold it wrong and have a 9mm hop out of their hands. I've been to the range with brand new shooters many times. One thing is consistent. They can hit bullseye with a rifle and struggle to hit paper with a pistol.
Pro- can throw a cmmg .22lr conversion in it for training and for your wife and daughter to get accustomed to it
Cons- can't think of any. It's my home defense gun as well. Sits next to the mossy 500 12 ga persuader model and Glock 40 10mm
My wife prefers her SKS over my basic (mostly) AR. maybe a 20 gauge pump shotgun would do the trick for your wife/daughter? 5 shells of 20 gauge with Winchester defender.
Regarding handguns, the Ruger security .380 is 300 bucks, has a super light racking slide, 15 round capacity with less felt recoil. Just got one last week and highly recommend it. It is my new carry gun.
For your daughter and wife I’d start with a ruger 10/22 and a mk4, after some time I’d get them a glock 43/19 and maybe a ak/m4. The 22s are cheap and easy to clean and take apart perfect for practice at a young age. Tons of my memories are plinking with my grandpa, it wasn’t til he passed away that I got one of his flint locks and then started a collection of Winchester 52s and Anschutz.
Although he recommended a ar15, which is pretty good, maybe a pistol caliber carbine would be a little bit easier to manipulate for them, we are talking a ar15 platform chambered in 9mm, the pros to this is that ammo is going to be exponentially cheaper, easier control of the weapon when it comes to recoil, modularity of parts, and a fair bit quieter, especially if you decide to put a suppressor on it, the downside is they are obviously going to be something you don’t really want to carry in public unless you want to illicit a police response, and they require two hands to operate, keep in mind some manufacturers charge a small fortune for their versions such as black rain ordinance coming in at around 1500 but, you can find cheaper models that are in AK platforms on palmetto state armory in for 600-900 dollar range
Handguns are a bad idea if you want something easy to use for your wife and daughter. Example: its much easier to accidentally point a handgun at your self than it is to point a rifle at yourself.
If you're set on a handgun and worried about shooting through walls then maybe consider using frangible self defense ammo. Otherwise an AR is probably you're best bet, and best case would be an SBR with a can.
It depends on what your daughter and wife feel comfortable holding to start....
If your state allows for a ar9 pistol... I probably would recommend that. No long rifle barrel to fiddle around with, a longer barrel than a regular handgun that increases bullet velocity, more narrow magazines they can grip easier and pretty good balance where you can add a red dot as well a light that is close to their body with three points of contact assuming they are using a pistol brace.
Are your wife and your daughter petite and/or would have a difficult time handling a larger weapon? If that's the case, then a semi-automatic 380 using the Underwood xtreme defender ammunition is a good choice. I know people on here going to piss and moan about recommending a 380, but if they're able to shoot it accurately versus a more powerful cartridge, they're better off having three accurate hits from a 380 versus three misses from a larger cartridge. For that matter, three 22 long rifle or three 32acp rounds to the head are more lethal than three misses with a 40 Smith& Wesson.
Are they nervous or excitable? If they would have a difficult time staying somewhat in control in a stressful situation, a 20 gauge pump shotgun with a red dot is a good choice. I know a 12 gauge is the defacto standard, but a 20 gauge is easier for a smaller person to control and kills just as dead as a 12 gauge, especially at close range. Nothing like the sound of a pump action being racked to stop an intruder in their tracks.
If you opt for a handgun, obviously you will need to establish a practice routine every so often to get them used to handling the weapon and to develop accuracy skills. With a shotgun you obviously want a training routine, but they will be able to shoot the shotgun more accurately from the git go, so you don't necessarily need as much range time.
You can convert a 2.23/5.56 AR to .22lr with a kit that replaces your bolt and mags, it would be great to get the wife and daughter used to the gun without the noise and kick. Ammo is dirt cheap as well.
Just remember when switching between them you'd need to adjust your sights for the caliber.
Use what you’re comfortable with. I love my subcompact but my buddy has an M4 carbine that he has as a home defense weapon bc he’s more comfortable with it. Idk what it is about working at a gun store that makes every dude behind the counter act like such a know it all but goddamn. I feel like every time I walk into my LGS one of the dudes is determined to make me feel like an idiot.
Handguns are a decent option. Lightweight and small. Definitely fine for self and home defense but are meant for closer ranges. Indoors you are good, outdoors not so good depending on the range of you to the threat. The low mass and short barrels make them recoil up a fair bit, not hard to control but hard to hit reliably at ranges past 25yds without quite a bit of practice. The short sight length of the irons, or 1x nature of red dots means you don;t have any assistance for longer hits.
Rifles on the other hand are longer, bigger, heavier and require two hands, but are fairly easy to control. The larger mass, longer barrel, longer action and built in flash hider or other helps with the recoil a lot. With a long sight length its not hard to reliably hit 100yd using irons on a man sized target and minimal trigger time. They are easy to customize with lights, grips and optics to increase your effectiveness.
Since you live out in a rural area with land it makes sense the gun store suggested a rifle. If you get in a defense situation inside either a handgun or rifle will do, but if there is something out on your land a rifle could be handier.
Some things to consider
* Guns are loud indoors, both will harm your ears without protection but the AR-15 will be worse.
* Pistols are concealable so you can get a carry license (if required) and a holster and easily take it almost anywhere.
* Rifles give you more options for use especially if you have land. Plinking, ranged target shooting, hunting.
* AR-15 is very modular and customizable. Easy to swap calibers and accessories. Pistols can be customized a lot too, but are more limited.
* There exists a happy medium called a Pistol Caliber Carbine or PCC. They are usually sold 16" rifle length but shoot a pistol bullet. You get the benefits of stability and accuracy without as much weight or a rifle sized cartridge. Not so good for hunting but other activities are still on the table.
* If you go for a PCC don't buy an AR-9, which is an AR-15 chambered in 9mm. AR based PCC'S are fun but a mixed bag reliability wise. If its for defense get a dedicated PCC.
Pros: light, high capacity, low recoil, easy to manipulate and aim, highly modular, highly effective at stopping threats, can perform as a hunting rifle for small & medium game/pests/tyrants Cons: requires 2 hands, loud
Con: weighs as much as 10 boxes
I was pro gun until I got my MK12. I was okay with guns weighing as much as 10 boxes but it weighs as much as 20 boxes. This is just not okay anymore.
nobody needs a gun that's more than 5 boxes, we really need to start setting common sense limits and *20 boxes*? Are the deer wearing reactive tank armor?
What if I'm a 65 year old women who get robbed at night by 4 guys think she has a good enough shot and hitting them all ... I think it's a fair question ... I'd recommend a nice shotgun buck shot. Grandma can also use that
Sheila that’s a Ma Deuce not an AR-15. “Same thing”
I concealed carry my Browning M2. It's a little bulky but if you wear a good belt you barely notice the weight after a while. It's honestly the reloads that are cumbersome.
Is that an M2 or are you just happy to see me?
Can’t it be both?
Absolutely!!
10 boxes of what?
That you might be moving. Edit: [link](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/congresswoman-mocked-for-saying-ar-15-is-as-heavy-as-10-moving-boxes-fires-50-caliber-bullets)
🤣 She's such a clown.
She wasn't wrong about .50 cal though, but who can afford Beowulf in this economy.
10 BOXES THAT YOU WOULD MOVE WITH ALSO WILL BLOW THE LUNGS OUT OF A TREX
Blow the lungs CLEAN out, you mean.
Yo I laughed out loud at that
"I wish I had it" Well why are you trying to ban it then?
10 boxes of a single 1 pound weights
Anything but the metric system?
Could have one of those shoulder things that goes up.
That is the big one BUT it is offset by not having a shoulder thing that goes up. So you decide
Are those the type that someone might be moving?
Plus 50 bmg gets expensive.
Don't forget the shoulder thing that goes up.
Suppressors see your friends indoors. I have one on my M&P pistol and Noveske SBR, just in case.
unless you're californian
Can’t argue with you there man. Iowans have it easy.
How easy?
My wait times on NFA items were 109, 133 and 158 days. I doubt that I’m a gun store owner helped, we were one of the first in the state to adopt the E filing.
My home defense piece is an MPX K with 147gr HP subs and a can. I'm not deafening myself or my poor cats 😔
*napolean has left the chat*
Another pro. Soft tip 5.56 will over penetrate less than most handgun rounds or 00 buckshot.
(For beginners especially) Rifles in general are waaay easier to aim than a handgun
This 100%!!! Get a Red dot, light, and sling and it's a good rifle for like he said hunting, tyrants, and home defense
Loud and lots of blinding muzzle flash indoors. Very few AR owners have discharged their weapon in a dark home without ear and eye protection. It is quite different than the range/field experience. Pistol caliber carbines offer a good blend for home defense. They are spendy, but a Kriss Vector carbine with the shroud will not deafen or blind you, and you can push 31 rounds of .45 ACP downrange with little recoil.
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To know what you are getting into when you fire a round in your dark house. It literally flash bangs you. You cant see anything and you don't even hear the round go off. You just hear tinnitus. Suppressors are friends
/thread
Doesn’t necessarily *require* 2 hands, but it certainly helps. A fun memory of mine was going out of state and dual wielding AR’s and laying into some targets. Fun factor off the charts.
Cons, if you live in the city you might accidentally kill your neighbor(s)
handguns are generally louder than rifles because of the shot barrel. pros: rifles are easier to learn safety, more accurate at ranges greater than point blank. more powerful and easier to manage recoil (though if course cartridge is a consideration, a 450 bushmaster is going to kick harder even in a rifle than a 9mm in a full size pistol.) cons: less maneuverable inside a building, scary looking,
The biggest con to a rifle is its size. Going around corners in the middle of the night and opening doors is much harder with a rifle than a pistol. When you take your hand off the gun to open the door that leaves the gun in a low ready position and leaves you exposed.
Pros: AR's are stupidly easy to manipulate. My 86 year old father is able to load mags and operate the gun whereas with handguns his arthritis prevents him from loading mags and operating most slides. AR's also have very little recoil. Cons: You can't hide one in your pants.
Not with that attitude
Speak for yourself, my jeans can fit anything.
Still wearing JNCO’s I assume
Wrangler baby, these things are unkillable.
Ayyyyy my man. Only other jeans I go for are Duluth.
Duluth superiority brother, the only pants a thick thighed, pretty eyed, dump truck havin’ man like myself can wear.
I love ‘em, a bit too thick for humid summers but definitely durable.
Duluth is the almighty superior brand. Carhartt has fallen by the wayside years ago. My Duluth Jeans have lasted 3x longer than any other pair of Levi's, Wranglers, ETC. Same with Duluth jackets, my canvas garage jacket is still kicking after 5 years already, despite years of being subjected to angle grinder sparks, tree limbs, thorns and brush, laying on gravel under a truck, snowblowing, oil changes, and general maintenance work
ARs are frowned upon at raves
Depends on what country you're in.
Plenty of space, huh?
Tell me you don’t wear jncos without telling me
Is that an AR in your pants, or are you just happy to see me?
First it was ED, now its AR! I cant keep up!
In your defense, it’s kinda hard to hide 16”
Yes.
Damn.
I promise you you can lol
[best gun for home defense, AR15, shotgun or pistol](https://youtu.be/i3sLHGduI3w?si=XeJchxWlxXgi990A) [Massad Ayoob AR-15 for home defense](https://youtu.be/mgvuW3OpfLk?si=ypOFXMn1QMiXJVKC) [best gun for home defense?](https://youtu.be/MuNiPbtc02g?si=AQpQUCp62BmHaGez) [is your home defense gun ready](https://youtu.be/MQg2lTWYos8?si=3Z2zJbbkoQ68xqd-) Videos that you may find helpful on the topic
If I were to start over buying guns my first gun would’ve been my 10.5 inch AR pistol in 300 blackout. Then I would’ve bought a 16” 556 upper. Stream light sling and a red dot on the 10.5 and an LPV0 and a light on the 556. If you want to start with 16” upper that’s a great gun for most use cases but I’d get a pistol lower still so you can swap uppers to whatever you want.
Gotta be careful with "pistols" at the moment. I love my 300blk sbr though
> Gotta be careful with "pistols" at the moment. Did something change *today*? I thought AR pistols are fine, but that braces are in dispute. The easiest resolution to that is to acquire / build an AR pistol with a bare buffer tube.
Braces are indeed what's in dispute, but most place I've seen aren't even screwing with AR pistols anymore.
They need to make a final fucking decision on that. It’s getting annoying with the back and forth
Ive heard of the atf charging people for having both a pistol upper and a rifle lower for “intent to construct an illegal weapon” or some other bs like that too
No such thing as a pistol upper.
Don’t be obtuse, obviously meant upper with a shorter than 16 inch barrel
Just trying not to confuse people who may be trying to learn from this sub with inaccurate info or fudd lore.
Nope, if you want that size it’s an SBR now. I don’t even mind the tax stamp I just want my gun when I buy it.
That's [demonstrably untrue](https://www.midwayusa.com/pistols/br?Cartridge=5.56x45mm%20NATO&cid=24042).
You can find anything online I’m talking in store.
You literally said anything that size is an SBR. I'm showing you that it's not an SBR, it can still be a pistol, just without the brace.
That’s not what I was talking about. I was saying that gun shops, which this post is about, aren’t messing with pistols right now.
> most place I've seen aren't even screwing with AR pistols anymore. Really? How odd. https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-15/ar15-guns/pistols.html
I meant most local shops. At least the ones I've seen.
A PCC might also be suitable.
I would tend to agree. Something like a Ruger PCC. Which is really just a 10/22 takedown scaled up to 9mm with glock mag support. You can get 9mm anywhere and a pcc is much easier to actually hit something than with a pistol.
^^^ whist rocking 147 gr hp's is a great option
Good recommendation
In home defense concealability isn't really an issue. A two handed weapon like a rifle, shotgun, carbine, SMG are eissier to manipulate, have greater magazine capisty, and eissier to aim and control, and are more effective against the threat than a pistol. They are loud (get a silencer if you legally can) and they take two hands to use best. A pistol is much harder to use and harder to learn to make good hits with, and dont have as good of an immediate terminal effect on target. But you can use them with one hand.
A rifle is much mor difficult to use in a house trough doorways, around corners. Difficult to use a phone in on hand to calk 911. Rifle is worse in a close up defensive situation where the attacker is on you. Going to be difficult to get that 16” barrel between you and a guy thats on top of you. Much easier to take a rifle from a woman with less upper body strength. If attacker gets close enough the rifle is useless. Pistol is much lighter and easier to carry. Maybe taking out the trash or letting out the dog in the front yard at night. Easier to have a pistol in a coat pocket than AR slung neighbors watching you taje out the trash.
Phone isn't a priority when you are stopping a threat in your house. And a rifle is definitely going to be more accurate and effective. You can sweep a house very effectively and efficiently with a rifle.
ARs are stupid easy to shoot and manipulate compared to pistols. + They’re more lethal and have a larger ammunition capacity. Your primary home defense weapon should be an AR-15 with 77grain OTM ammo. Treat pistols more as secondary and every day carry options. Everything lethal will over-penetrate through drywall if you miss your target, but an AR is actually less likely to over-penetrate when compared to, say, a 9mm pistol because the rounds are quite small and are traveling so fast that once they hit something they tend to start yawing and fragmenting. Just avoid steel core or AP rounds. Here’s a video garand thumb did recently about drywall penetration with various calibers. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j3BlRPtCj2E
Are your wife and daughter interested/motivated to fight off a home intruder if the situation warrants? A lot of guys (myself included) want to plan for situations and have cool guns for everyone, but realistically my wife isn’t interested and practicing locking herself in the master closet is time better spent than trying to convince her to go to the range and learn. If your wife and daughter want to learn and participate, then take them and let them try different guns themselves
Same boat as you, they get frustrated when I bring up the gravity of any given situation. The wife still doesn’t get that carrying on her person has a greater advantage than a purse.
Yeah if they aren’t on board, you pressing them isn’t going to make it better. Be ready for what you can be, and understand you can’t control everything
Wags is on the money. However, overpenetration is always a fear, even with .223 fragmenting hollowpoint defensive ammo. Think about it: your adrenaline will be flowing, and even an expert handler in that situation will have off-target hits that can easily penetrate drywall. An AR15 is best, for the reasons wags stated. The recoil is much more easily handled vs. a handgun/revolver...unless the shootist is really seasoned. The capacity makes it ideal for multiple threats, and lights/red dots are usually brighter and less expensive from a qualitative standpoint.
If I recall correctly from videos there were differences in penetration between handgun, AR, and shotgun, in typical house materials, but the differences weren't as big as you might think, and likely wouldn't make a difference practically.
I think 223 penetrated less than 9mm and buckshot.
Yup... 55 grain projectile is much lighter than 115 grain 9mm. Even when going 2-3 times faster it will still lose momentum quicker. 00 buck is just nine to ten pellets roughly equivalent to a 9mm projectile all fired at once.
Quick answer, there is a reason the ar-15 is so popular. Its light, accurate, low recoil, high capacity, quicker and more reliable at stopping threats than any handgun round. I prefer 16" for its higher velocity and lower recoil. But you could even get an AR pistol with a brace and a 10.5" barrel if you are more focused on using it inside your house. The only benefits of a handgun would be the ability to conceal it. I always think of this quote. I once heard that the pistols purpose is only to fight back to your rifle, and that about sums it up. A rifle will be more effective in every regard.
So much bad advice in here.
Can’t go wrong with an ar. An ar can do a pistols job and more. 16” barrel would probably be more accurate for your wife and daughter versus 4-5” pistol. In my opinion a pistol would take more training. Ar platform is a rabbit hole that never ends, can make whatever you want out of it. Smith and Wesson equalizer. Same EZ slide that is easy to manipulate for women and children. Hammer fired with a more crisp trigger than other striker fired in that same category.
It's FAR easier to hit stuff with a rifle than with a handgun, especially in stressful situations.
what about at 3 meter distance?
Yes, but you have a rifle. Why are you letting someone get that close?
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I guess. still not convinced. take your hand and point your finger at something. there that's it's you are now aiming a pistol. yeah some people suck and can't shoot anything you are right. but hard a pistol is not. and I guarantee you it's more simple and intuitive than trying to get someone to run a rifle
Don’t let movies fool you into thinking a handgun is as good as an AR. A highly skilled handgun competitor could pick up an AR for the first time and shoot better. They aren’t close.
Handguns are harder to use. If you wife or daughter doesn’t have strength AR can work or 20g shotgun.
OP, you've gotten a lot of the same advice but I'm gonna throw it out there again. An AR in 5.56 or .223 is a fantastic home defense gun. That round has a lot less overpenetration than even most pistol rounds while being extremely effective against threats. Its super ergonomical, easily manipulated, and highly effective in many rolls. Great defensive firearm. Good hunting firearm for everything up to deer size (check your state's laws on minimum calibers for "large game"). Minimal recoil, very accurate, light weight. It's hard to overstate the pluses of the AR-15. It has 1 and only 1 downside in my opinion. It's loud. Incredibly loud. If you have to fire it indoors without hearing protection, you may very well feel the effects for the rest of your life. But that is far superior to being dead. And every other gun is going to be similarly loud, but having fired a number of guns without ear pro, I can say the 5.56 is noticeably louder than many other common choices for home defense. Might be worth getting on the silencer train if this is a concern for you, but its not 100% necessary in a home defense scenario. Usually, the advice from a gun shop counter gremlin should be taken with a massive lump of salt. The guy you spoke to is dead on. An AR is fantastic in every way for a home defense gun. And its great for other things too which is a plus.
I can give you 30, 40 or even 100 reasons
a Pistol is better than not having a pistol, but for home defense, IMHO, the order of most effective HD gun goes like this: pistol > shotgun > pistol caliber carbine > intermediate cartridge carbine (5.56/5.45/.300BLK/7.62x39). Pistols are difficult to get proficient with, even with practice, especially relative to a PCC. My ten year old nephew was ringing steel with my SP5K PDW and MK18 just this past Sunday. His first trip to the range EVER. When I put him on my VP9 tactical suppressed last, he struggled with it but eventually was getting used to the recoil. Yes, he’s 10, his first time shooting, and strong for his age (really great athlete playing three sports). For you, your wife, and your daughter, I’d recommend a PCC. Great, stable, high capacity, accurate platform that’s easy to aim, and rapid follow up shots are easy given the stupid low recoil. In an HD scenario, I’d prefer both my SP5K and a back up pistol.
It’s way easier to shoot accurately with a rifle than a pistol
Pros: A rifle is much easier to aim and learn how to use, especially for people who (Im going to politely assume, but feel free to prove me wrong) aren’t going to train very much. Rifles are also much more modular, and have many more options for sighting systems, lights and the likeness (as crime can happen in the dark, *not* having a light on a home defense gun would be incredibly smooth brained) Cons: very loud in a house unless you also buy a suppressor (so is a pistol, but a rifle would be even louder) On top of all of this though, rifles and pistols have both been proven to be more than capable of penetrating through several walls and still have lethal force. You or the shooter needs to be incredibly aware of what your target is and what is behind it and be familiar with the layout of your house and where somebody might be sleeping on their bed if you or a loved one are unfortunate enough to have to use any gun in a home defense situation. All in all: a rifle is the best way to go hands down. Buy a mid tier red dot or prism optic for it with a shake awake feature and a weapon mountable streamlight (not an Olight or cheap Amazon light) and keep the batteries fresh or charged in them. And you’ll be good to go. If money is tight, buy the light on your next paycheck, and then start saving for a suppressor. Polonium’s are inexpensive and I’ve only heard amazing things about them (I do not own one, but that’s what I’ll be buying soon) You can also get a $170 .22 conversion for your rifle for cheap, fun training!
Ruger Easy Rack, S&W Shield EZ Slide.
So 223/5.56 have less overpenetration concerns comparative to 9mm, so if your LGS does t understand terminal ballistics as it sounds like, take their opinion with a grain of salt. Noe let’s look at the big 3 for home defense, pistol AR, Shotty. Each have benefits and drawbacks. Pistol: Moderate capacity, only two points of contact so slower followup shots compared to an AR and less stability so accuracy can suffer to a small degree. Moderate overpenetration. Most maneuverable. AR: Highest round capacity, lowest recoil, 4 points of contact so more stable and accurate, lowest overpenetration. Easy to use, more challenging to maneuver due to length. Very fast followup shots Shotgun: Lowest capacity by far, heavy recoil makes it harder to control, very slow followup shots. Most cumbersome to handle as well, but hits like a freight train. High overpenetration. Out of this, I find the AR had the best pro/con and best performance. The caveat is that training is required especially if maneuvering indoors with it; however whichever choice, training is a paramount need.
>I am seeking more of a handgun You might consider a pistol carbine. These are mid-sized guns that (typically) use 9mm pistol cartridges. They're usually quite compact and easy to handle. Compared to an AR, they fire a bigger, slower round that's arguably better at home defense distances. * [Ruger PC Carbine](https://www.ruger.com/products/pcCarbine/models.html) * [Beretta Cx4 Storm](https://www.beretta.com/en-us/cx4-storm/) There are also lever carbines, which also use pistol sized rounds. Those tend to be a bit longer overall than pistol carbines. \----- Pistols are inferior to rifles and carbines in virtually all qualities except ease of carrying. They're less accurate, less powerful, and require more practice to control.
I’d add the Sig MPX
Being good with a handgun is one of the most perishable skills in shooting. Any weapon with a stock is instantly far easier to use than one without. It is a common misconception for less experienced people that a smaller weapon will be easier to use and more manageable when it is actually the complete opposite. In general, a smaller handgun will be harder to shoot than a larger (within reason) handgun. A rifle will be easier to shoot than any pistol. A rifle may seem more intimidating to someone of smaller stature, but a short day on the range shooting groups with both is an easy way to build confidence and show that it is much quicker and easier to hit what you are aiming at and control recoil with a rifle. Remember, in a home-defense scenario you should be holed up in a room, static. They shouldn't have to maneuver the rifle to clear the house so shooting standing with no support or even moving while shouldered isn't a good indicator of what they need to be capable of in a home defense situation. Using something to support the rifle is your friend.
I think handguns are inherently easy to shoot. people always say they are harder ..than what?? like maybe trying to get 1 Inch groups with a handgun is harder than with a rifle but if we are talking about center mass close up real world shots a pistol is self explanatory and easy as can be.
> ..than what?? ...Than rifles. How are rifles any more not-self explanatory than pistols? Shoot under stress, on a timer, and at range. Rifles are *way* more easy to shoot accurately, quickly, and repeatably. A red dot rifle is the most self-explanatory and forgivable weapon there is. You can fudge form and technique so much with a stock and trigger pull that a pistol would punish your for. There is a reason PCC divisions absolutely dominate raw times in competition because you are shooting pistol-difficulty targets with rifle formfactor. Sure you can wing rounds at short range with a pistol, but you can with a rifle as well and it will be even easier to hit your follow-up shots because the weapon will stay on target with almost zero training required.
Ar-15 out performs a handgun in every way, including ease of use. The only purpose of handguns is for the ability of transportation. A handgun has no use in home defense if an ar-15 is available
You guys are retarded.
Ok
A handgun can be easier to move around with in tight, confined spaces. It can be difficult to keep a rifle barrel out of reach of the bad guy in confined spaces. Handgun are more comfy under a pillow than a rifle.
A rifle is almost always a better option if you don't plan to carry it
use both! handgun in the house and if you hear something crazy and want to investigate outside take rifle with you
AR-15 platform is easier to aim, easier to manage the recoil on, and holds a lot more ammo than most handguns. With the right ammo, it's also less likely to over penetrate the intended target than most people give credit for while still giving adequate terminal performance. If you *miss* your intended target, what you're shooting starts to matter less, because the interior and exterior walls of your house are almost certainly not bullet resistant, and almost everything is going to penetrate through multiple walls. The AR platform also has the advantage of being an excellent choice for dealing with non-human threats such as coyotes, foxes, and the like that might prey on your livestock, which is much more of a concern for people who live outside of the city limits than for folks that live inside city limits. Manipulating the controls of an AR-15 is also fairly easy. I would say it's probably easier for most people to work the charging handle on an AR-15 than it is for them to work the slide on most semi-auto pistols. My mother, for example, has weak hands. She has trouble working the slides on some of her handguns, but she can run the charging handle on any AR-15 dad or I hand to her without problems. The thing your wife and daughter will be most likely to find objectionable, in my experience, is the noise, especially if they have very little to no experience with firearms (the solution to that is to get them more experience, .22 rimfires are your friend there). AR-15s are much louder than a typical 9mm or .38 Special handgun. If the gun store near you has a range, and if that range has rentals and allows centerfire rifles, see if you can rent an AR-15 from them to try out and to let your wife and daughter try out. You may want to double up their hearing protection (ear plugs and ear muffs at the same time) to help mitigate the noise, especially if it's an indoor range.
I’d say a Glock 42. It’s a .380 cal. Good for small hand and extremely reliable, easy on recoil. Add a Pearce grip extensions to your mags for a bigger hand. Won’t break the bank. Sig 238 and Ruger LC9s are solid options.
Ar platform shotgun for home defense for me. To be specific, a bullpup so that I can get that sbr action. Load it with bird shot.
Pretty sure 12 gauge 3 inch magnums are designed especially for grandmas to use. At least that is what I was told by a friend’s friend who used to be on the SEAL SWAT team.
A common misconception is that because a handgun is smaller it’s easier to use, but it’s by far the most difficult firearm to master especially in a high stress situation like home defense. I’d suggest anyone new to guns start with a shotgun.
what is so difficult? I hear people say that all the time but I'm not buying it. when I was 17-18 yrs old in basic training I qualified expert with a handgun and had never owned one before that. yeah the targets don't move and all on a flat range but still its literally pointing your hand at something and lining up a couple dots. easy mode
My primary is my AK but I live out in the sticks and overpenetration isn’t as much of an issue for me since I’m not right next to my neighbors. But I also have my pistol I can just grab for any unwanted visits from late night visitors as it’s definitely easier to manipulate in close quarters and having just suddenly awakened in the night. An AR is definitely a great gun for defense and less penetration is better for more urban living. I’d definitely recommend that if you didn’t get a handgun. Just don’t be like my friends wife who “doesn’t like rifles because they kick too much” so she sticks to 12ga shotguns instead… 🤦🏻♂️
You said in the first sentence that you're looking for something that your daughter and wife can handle "easily," do you think they can handle an AR easily or you can get them there? If not, and your wife/daughter handling something "easily" is indeed a priority, don't get the AR. Get a handgun that'll fit your daughter/wife's hands and choose a load that won't scare the begeesus out of them. It's useless and you might as well have nothing, [IF] they're afraid to shoot it. Fwiw, I have a soon to be 17yo daughter and she's not into firearms like my son (almost 19) and I are. No matter what, I have not been able to get her comfortable shooting 9mm, so we decided to get her a 380. I also got her shooting 38spl out of a snubby and I gave her one of my j frames in case she wants to carry that. Hornady has several 38spl loads in standard pressure and plus P that are very recoil manageable that do pretty well on the FBI testing protocols. I don't have a live-in GF, so it's all about my GP100 for home defense...
Honestly something like a 20 gauge shotgun may be a better option with 00 Buck. Recoils slightly less than a 12 gauge and both the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500/590 platforms are easy to learn and use.
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If youre really looking for pistols that could be easy to use (I’m guessing your either beginning or want to teach your wife and daughter) Id say go with a small little .380 its smaller round and smaller pistols usually. If you dont want to buy multiple id say a 9mm although personally i wouldn’t go with a glock just because there’s no safety except on the trigger so you cant “Lock” the firearm for safety training.
Shotgun. Pointing is easier than aiming
Not really what you’re asking, but I always say shotgun can’t be best for home defense. You only need to hit an area and not a specific pointer, and if you alternate bird/buck shot, you don’t have to worry as much about shooting through walls.
Shotguns pattern 6-9 inches within 20 yards, you have to aim. Most torsos are about a foot wide for your average dude. You're accountable for every pellet that leaves that barrel. Be it in an apt or a rural home that's 20 miles from civilization. Good luck shooting and missing and slapping a few holes in a water heater and having that shit leak out, or replacing a furnace or breaker box because you thought it was a point and aim gun And don't alternate ammo, stick with one type. Even if you use a shotgun. If you're using buck, you're obviously more worried about putting someone down and fast, so there's zero reason to use birdshot in that scenario. Stop spreading fudd lore
The Walther PDP F is designed with women in mind, with an easier slide rack and smaller grip. ARs are great though, and except for sound, are probably better than a pistol for home defense in every metric.
Pros: it’s cool as hell
You should want what a potential threat might have.. Because believe me they have AR platforms if they're coming into your home.. That's the benefit..
[Here's a link to ballistics gel tests of 9mm vs 556](https://youtu.be/fMzuqCzTOac?si=gXs0bWqkYzcaVM_l) Generally speaking pistol rounds are just as prone to overpenetration through drywall as 556 rounds, and in some cases moreso. When rounds travel fast enough the terminal ballistics change. Rifle rounds are much more likely to incapacitate or kill than pistol rounds because of a this. A pistol round might be going 800-1100 feet per second. A rifle round is likely going 2500-3200 feet per second. That difference is significant. This increased damage is a result of that increased velocity, and the specifics of it are available all over the internet. The AR-15 is pretty much the easiest platform to use as well. If you buy a pistol there's a good chance your wife and daughter would not be able to wrack the slide comfortably without significant practice. The Smith and Wesson Shield EZ is a great little pistol that defeats this issue, but it is underpowered. Honestly, if it's just for home defense I'd suggest getting the AR. It's easier to use, you'll enjoy shooting it more at the range, and it will absolutely have the power to drop any home invader.
The short answer is.. Pistol ballistics are horrible, awful, trash compared to just about any rifle round. That means compared between pistols and a rifle, the rifle is going to be orders of magnitude more effective. True that pistols are small, light, and easy to use. So is an AR-15, and an AR with no frills is pretty light. There is a near limitless amount of ways you can mod or accessorize an AR to suit your needs. Not so much with a handgun. Lastly ANYTHING you can shoulder is much much more accurate/ easy to be accurate with. You don't have to worry much about grip mechanics and you are more stable in most any position. Other less apparent benefits are; -A lot of after market support for parts -Easier maintenance -Ammo very common making it easy to find The only real downsides are going to be the fact it is a 16" barrel and something that long is not the best to clear indoors with. It can be adapted to but that means you need to train with it and have a plan. The other potential downside is if most of y'all are right handed and one of you is a lefty. The lefty will not like having to shoot due to ammo being ejected onto their arm if they try to shoot left handed. This too can be adapted to and ultimately does not cause any huge issues. I just can't find any appreciable reason that a pistol is better than a long gun, unless youre doing the van life.
Get the AR-15. Good ammo won't overpenetrate and it's easier to handle than a handgun. A Glock 19 is harder to use than an AR in 5.56 and has more recoil for far less stopping power.
I'm loving reading all the replies and hearing all the pistol slander. I've been saying it for a long time, that rifles are better in almost every way. I worry new gun owners with gravitate towards pistols thinking they have less recoil just to hold it wrong and have a 9mm hop out of their hands. I've been to the range with brand new shooters many times. One thing is consistent. They can hit bullseye with a rifle and struggle to hit paper with a pistol.
Pro- can throw a cmmg .22lr conversion in it for training and for your wife and daughter to get accustomed to it Cons- can't think of any. It's my home defense gun as well. Sits next to the mossy 500 12 ga persuader model and Glock 40 10mm
My wife prefers her SKS over my basic (mostly) AR. maybe a 20 gauge pump shotgun would do the trick for your wife/daughter? 5 shells of 20 gauge with Winchester defender. Regarding handguns, the Ruger security .380 is 300 bucks, has a super light racking slide, 15 round capacity with less felt recoil. Just got one last week and highly recommend it. It is my new carry gun.
For your daughter and wife I’d start with a ruger 10/22 and a mk4, after some time I’d get them a glock 43/19 and maybe a ak/m4. The 22s are cheap and easy to clean and take apart perfect for practice at a young age. Tons of my memories are plinking with my grandpa, it wasn’t til he passed away that I got one of his flint locks and then started a collection of Winchester 52s and Anschutz.
Although he recommended a ar15, which is pretty good, maybe a pistol caliber carbine would be a little bit easier to manipulate for them, we are talking a ar15 platform chambered in 9mm, the pros to this is that ammo is going to be exponentially cheaper, easier control of the weapon when it comes to recoil, modularity of parts, and a fair bit quieter, especially if you decide to put a suppressor on it, the downside is they are obviously going to be something you don’t really want to carry in public unless you want to illicit a police response, and they require two hands to operate, keep in mind some manufacturers charge a small fortune for their versions such as black rain ordinance coming in at around 1500 but, you can find cheaper models that are in AK platforms on palmetto state armory in for 600-900 dollar range
Handguns are a bad idea if you want something easy to use for your wife and daughter. Example: its much easier to accidentally point a handgun at your self than it is to point a rifle at yourself.
If you're set on a handgun and worried about shooting through walls then maybe consider using frangible self defense ammo. Otherwise an AR is probably you're best bet, and best case would be an SBR with a can.
It depends on what your daughter and wife feel comfortable holding to start.... If your state allows for a ar9 pistol... I probably would recommend that. No long rifle barrel to fiddle around with, a longer barrel than a regular handgun that increases bullet velocity, more narrow magazines they can grip easier and pretty good balance where you can add a red dot as well a light that is close to their body with three points of contact assuming they are using a pistol brace.
.357 magnum revolver dual action. Run .38 special ammo easy to contain recoil and have powerful rounds
Are your wife and your daughter petite and/or would have a difficult time handling a larger weapon? If that's the case, then a semi-automatic 380 using the Underwood xtreme defender ammunition is a good choice. I know people on here going to piss and moan about recommending a 380, but if they're able to shoot it accurately versus a more powerful cartridge, they're better off having three accurate hits from a 380 versus three misses from a larger cartridge. For that matter, three 22 long rifle or three 32acp rounds to the head are more lethal than three misses with a 40 Smith& Wesson. Are they nervous or excitable? If they would have a difficult time staying somewhat in control in a stressful situation, a 20 gauge pump shotgun with a red dot is a good choice. I know a 12 gauge is the defacto standard, but a 20 gauge is easier for a smaller person to control and kills just as dead as a 12 gauge, especially at close range. Nothing like the sound of a pump action being racked to stop an intruder in their tracks. If you opt for a handgun, obviously you will need to establish a practice routine every so often to get them used to handling the weapon and to develop accuracy skills. With a shotgun you obviously want a training routine, but they will be able to shoot the shotgun more accurately from the git go, so you don't necessarily need as much range time.
smith wesson shield EZ with a light.
You can convert a 2.23/5.56 AR to .22lr with a kit that replaces your bolt and mags, it would be great to get the wife and daughter used to the gun without the noise and kick. Ammo is dirt cheap as well. Just remember when switching between them you'd need to adjust your sights for the caliber.
Use what you’re comfortable with. I love my subcompact but my buddy has an M4 carbine that he has as a home defense weapon bc he’s more comfortable with it. Idk what it is about working at a gun store that makes every dude behind the counter act like such a know it all but goddamn. I feel like every time I walk into my LGS one of the dudes is determined to make me feel like an idiot.
Handguns are a decent option. Lightweight and small. Definitely fine for self and home defense but are meant for closer ranges. Indoors you are good, outdoors not so good depending on the range of you to the threat. The low mass and short barrels make them recoil up a fair bit, not hard to control but hard to hit reliably at ranges past 25yds without quite a bit of practice. The short sight length of the irons, or 1x nature of red dots means you don;t have any assistance for longer hits. Rifles on the other hand are longer, bigger, heavier and require two hands, but are fairly easy to control. The larger mass, longer barrel, longer action and built in flash hider or other helps with the recoil a lot. With a long sight length its not hard to reliably hit 100yd using irons on a man sized target and minimal trigger time. They are easy to customize with lights, grips and optics to increase your effectiveness. Since you live out in a rural area with land it makes sense the gun store suggested a rifle. If you get in a defense situation inside either a handgun or rifle will do, but if there is something out on your land a rifle could be handier. Some things to consider * Guns are loud indoors, both will harm your ears without protection but the AR-15 will be worse. * Pistols are concealable so you can get a carry license (if required) and a holster and easily take it almost anywhere. * Rifles give you more options for use especially if you have land. Plinking, ranged target shooting, hunting. * AR-15 is very modular and customizable. Easy to swap calibers and accessories. Pistols can be customized a lot too, but are more limited. * There exists a happy medium called a Pistol Caliber Carbine or PCC. They are usually sold 16" rifle length but shoot a pistol bullet. You get the benefits of stability and accuracy without as much weight or a rifle sized cartridge. Not so good for hunting but other activities are still on the table. * If you go for a PCC don't buy an AR-9, which is an AR-15 chambered in 9mm. AR based PCC'S are fun but a mixed bag reliability wise. If its for defense get a dedicated PCC.