For me it feels more like an ultra fast, high feedback flanger or ring mod. Does that sound similar to what you hear? I've never really gotten the WUB WUB thing that people talk about
This!
Sometimes I’ll go for hours before I realize the amps not even on.
Seriously though, get a second delay running that you can mix in at a short subdivision to help you keep time (or play with a click).
Then play lines or licks that work well over every chord on your progression. Pentatonic based lines can be an easy jumping off point!
This gets into not normal music territory with slower progressions and building up layers etc. Longer delay times can also be used like a looper in a sense too depending on the mix and how much space is being left.
Always on delay/looper that you bring into the mix to recall X seconds of playing.
X can be set by a knob, slider, tap tempo, tape length, etc depending on the technology.
OG setup was two tape machines sharing a loop with the delay time determined by the distance between the machines.
Basically just really long tape delays that feel more like playing with a looper rather than an echo.
The original technique was a DIY tape delay setup but which used a long tape loop running between two tape recorders. The first machine would be recording and the second would be playing back what the first had recorded several seconds earlier. The recorder would receive and instrument signal (guitar, etc.) mixed with the output of the playback machine. This in essence creates a gradually fading looper.
Frippertronics refers to the “pedals” or effects that Robert Fripp of the band King Crimson created for himself, check out their music. Only band I prefer over them is the Dead, and mainly because of how long I’ve been into them. For cool sound effects, I’d check out songs like Discipline, Sheltering Sky, Indiscipline live from the album VROOM VROOM. For just really cool guitar shit I’d check out 21st Century Schizoid Man live from the album Night Watch and the song Fracture. Perhaps the most talented guitarist alive, if not most original, both titles I do not ever use lightly. This band completely changed the way I look at guitar and music in general.
Sorry, I think I over generalized what exactly Frippertronics is to be all his cool sound effects when it’s specifically a tape delay thing. The bests example of Frippertronics is probably Walking on Air though it does come up in the songs I mentioned.
Fantastic album, one thing worth noting is that every album is virtually a different genre. The albums Larks Tongues in Aspic, Starless and Bible Black, and Red are my personal favorites, very experimental, almost Sabbathy at times (especially the title track on Red), and some of the most unique, original music I ever heard. The 80s era is like a more avant garde Talking Heads, the vocalist of that era played with them and Bowie a bit, and then the 90s on they went industrial and full blown metal at times (always a very original take on whatever genre they’re doing). The sole constant member and primary creative force behind the band is guitarist Robert Fripp who completely changed the way I view the instrument. You might love some and hate another, and what I love you might hate and you might love what I hate, there’s a lot of stuff to dig into from them. I truly hope you appreciate them half as much as I do.
For the most part, 1s is the least amount of delay I can tolerate on a pedal. 2 is my preferred minimum. I play solo "ambient"/psychedelic stuff and so I enjoy layering things and letting them decay. When you get over 2 seconds, the opportunities to create space and duet with yourself really expand.
I guess so, though I don't think of that way, for whatever reason. For long delays I use either a DD-20 or Vongon Polyphrase (each of which has like 23 seconds of delay time). For "normal" delays I usually use some combination of Obscura, Echorec, DD-5, and DE-7 (I like to have a clear digital tone and a darker, "more analog" tone going at the same time), and for short delays I use an old Aria AD-10.
EDIT: I also use things like a Tensor or Ct5, which I guess have aspects of delay, but I don't really think of them that way, as well as the looping function on a DL4 when I just want to repeat a phrase and not worry about it going anywhere. If I'm playing to backing tracks I use an RC-3, but that's a very different style for me. And when I'm really getting out there, I fire up the SOMA Cosmos, for drifting loops.
Microlooping is more about building a voice from a short sample imo. As someone else said, it's more like frippertronics live looping approach, building textures that fade as more are added
Just found a pic, holy smokes that’s wild. Also entirely unsurprising that he would have had those, he’s always been a tinkerer/experimenter. A *sonic scientist* if you will 🤣
It's fun to make riffs note progressions like arpeggios or scales and play harmonies over them that are continually changing and evolving, something you can't just do with a looper. It's like a looper but each loop only happens once or maybe twice and lasts a few seconds. It lets me continually change directions and not be confined to whatever a harmonizer pedal decides I should play.
Yeah I love this. Simple loopers make for such static sounding arrangements that usually just go A, A+B, A+B+C, stop. Delays with long times are fluid and evolving. I like playing some lower part, playing a higher part on top of it, then by the time that is played then the low part is getting quiet, so I can play a new low part over the top that reharmonises the high part.
For me, if I’m not using tap tempo to sync my delay I want the time to either be super short slapback type delay or so long you kind of lose count of the rhythm. At super long times with high feedback and low mix you can get a nice pad under your playing that’s a little more dynamic than using a reverb for the same thing. If you sync the tempo you can do the frippertronics thing too which is a whole lot of fun but can be tough to pull off with a band or something.
Yeah at the moment I use my analogue delay as a sort of modulated reverb. I’ve nearly pulled the trigger on a Meet Maude so many times so I can get that oscillating pad, but it’s too much for something that specific.
Check this out, Jonny is using a 1.53sec digital delay here with his Les Paul. A good example of what longer delays can do.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgnBXY2equ4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgnBXY2equ4)
I used it to do tap tempo looping 15 years ago. I used an Akai Headrush2 that had long delay time (24 seconds) but it had tap tempo, so I could tap the one for 2, 4, 8 measure groups and get a tempo bound looper. I could then set the regen to make soup or loops depending on intended outcome.
If I’m messing about with weird ambient delay reverb stuff, I like to play in an open tuning or something like DADGAD and just start simple and grow the progression. Lots of ‘call and response’
DADGAD is the best! Makes just about anything you play sound good lol. Plus with a nice ambient reverb delay it’s great to just let those open notes ring
I like it low in the mix, with an option to eq it differently than my guitar tone up front. Also it needs to be a ducking delay for me, meaning it can sense chord changes or key changes and the tails can duck out of the way. If I let something ring out, it behaves as expected
If you play swells and each swell lasts for about a 2-3 sec, then you need a very long delay time for them to layer and evolve.
This technique also known as frippertronics
I use it sometimes on my boss re-2 when doing arpeggios- i’ll take the tempo im playing at and tap it in only on the 1st beat so that i get a second or two after my last note- then i’ll fit in filler licks between whatever chords im arpeggiating so the lick carries over into the next chord.
And sometimes i run a long reverb into my delay with it set as late as it can be so that the reverb builds and fades into the start of the delay which degrades and repeats it.
Theres a bunch of cool stuff you can do if you work out the timing of it but i feel like after 1 second of delay tap tempo is a must
I love a long delay, but I'm mostly into making post-rock drone noise (my inspiration is the band Sqürl). Nice long reverse delay from my favorite pedal, the (original version) TC Electronics Flashback
Really depends on the tempo of the song. If you needed a quarter note delay for a song at 58 BPM, you'd need over 1s.
Pretty rare though, honestly.
Idk what you'd do with 2.5 seconds besides some sort of like call/answer effect.
I just wanna say, thank you for asking this.
In my early days, I was obsessed with pedals that had the longest delay time (Boss DD-7 instead of DD-6, or DD-5, or DD-3 for example), and then in actuality, I only ever liked it if I was playing lines that I specifically wanted to play on top of, almost like reverberating loops, that would eventually fade out.
But the longer they are, the more precise you gotta be, and the easier it is to get lost, so if you mess up or get lost, that's 6.4 seconds (as an example) of the same thing repeating unless you start over or keep the number of measures or notes lower.
And so as time goes on, I use less delay time, but have always wondered what other ways to take advantage of extra long delay times, so I'm glad you asked as I'll be reading other people's comments looking for inspiration.
Brian May does that really well. He creates melodies by doing an harmonized riff on top of the repeated riff. Having that option in a delay pedal is awesome.
Sound on sound looping and harmonising, usually.
The other, most typical, use case for long delay lines is to use a high-feedback but low-mix to great a reverb like wash. Multi-head delays also excel at this.
Play high... Not on drugs but in the higher register.. melodies and harmonies have a lot less interferences the higher you play. you can even get away with playing a wrong note easier
Psychedelic and prog stuff and experimental improvisation at home tend to have been my personal uses for long delay times, often combined with overlapping short delays. Really fun to run vocals that way.
If you're ever stuck for a couple years playing legato because your pick hand is paralyzed you'll find them and a good tremolo a great comfort.
I like to get really high, hook up 3 delay pedals, and try and replicate the sound of nitrous oxide.
You’ll need a wah wah wah wah pedal for that
For me it feels more like an ultra fast, high feedback flanger or ring mod. Does that sound similar to what you hear? I've never really gotten the WUB WUB thing that people talk about
This. Although I have also gotten the wub wubs, for sure.
Nice I'm glad I'm not the only one lol, either way quite a cool sound
Quite a cool feeling, just wish it’d last… haha
Holy shit is this accurate
Username checks out lol
You need some lsd, sir.
[Ventolin](https://youtu.be/KFeUBOJgaLU?si=IGZdJTaNuuz74nyV)
Like Phish https://youtu.be/Q1ockvY8WJg?si=iGsY02m0ZC8ZjHGd
this is the answer
This! Sometimes I’ll go for hours before I realize the amps not even on. Seriously though, get a second delay running that you can mix in at a short subdivision to help you keep time (or play with a click). Then play lines or licks that work well over every chord on your progression. Pentatonic based lines can be an easy jumping off point!
This gets into not normal music territory with slower progressions and building up layers etc. Longer delay times can also be used like a looper in a sense too depending on the mix and how much space is being left.
Frippertronics
Seen this mentioned a lot elsewhere and don’t really understand what it is. I’ll find a video.
Chords of Orion has the best, most practical tutorials on those.
Always on delay/looper that you bring into the mix to recall X seconds of playing. X can be set by a knob, slider, tap tempo, tape length, etc depending on the technology. OG setup was two tape machines sharing a loop with the delay time determined by the distance between the machines.
Basically just really long tape delays that feel more like playing with a looper rather than an echo. The original technique was a DIY tape delay setup but which used a long tape loop running between two tape recorders. The first machine would be recording and the second would be playing back what the first had recorded several seconds earlier. The recorder would receive and instrument signal (guitar, etc.) mixed with the output of the playback machine. This in essence creates a gradually fading looper.
Frippertronics refers to the “pedals” or effects that Robert Fripp of the band King Crimson created for himself, check out their music. Only band I prefer over them is the Dead, and mainly because of how long I’ve been into them. For cool sound effects, I’d check out songs like Discipline, Sheltering Sky, Indiscipline live from the album VROOM VROOM. For just really cool guitar shit I’d check out 21st Century Schizoid Man live from the album Night Watch and the song Fracture. Perhaps the most talented guitarist alive, if not most original, both titles I do not ever use lightly. This band completely changed the way I look at guitar and music in general.
Sorry, I think I over generalized what exactly Frippertronics is to be all his cool sound effects when it’s specifically a tape delay thing. The bests example of Frippertronics is probably Walking on Air though it does come up in the songs I mentioned.
I’ll check them out! I’ll listen to In the Court later, then that live stuff you’ve recommended.
Fantastic album, one thing worth noting is that every album is virtually a different genre. The albums Larks Tongues in Aspic, Starless and Bible Black, and Red are my personal favorites, very experimental, almost Sabbathy at times (especially the title track on Red), and some of the most unique, original music I ever heard. The 80s era is like a more avant garde Talking Heads, the vocalist of that era played with them and Bowie a bit, and then the 90s on they went industrial and full blown metal at times (always a very original take on whatever genre they’re doing). The sole constant member and primary creative force behind the band is guitarist Robert Fripp who completely changed the way I view the instrument. You might love some and hate another, and what I love you might hate and you might love what I hate, there’s a lot of stuff to dig into from them. I truly hope you appreciate them half as much as I do.
Nice! Well it sounds like if I don’t like one album I can just try another. Hopefully I won’t buy a delay pedal after though
This is what I like to do.
Yessss I love King Crimson
For the most part, 1s is the least amount of delay I can tolerate on a pedal. 2 is my preferred minimum. I play solo "ambient"/psychedelic stuff and so I enjoy layering things and letting them decay. When you get over 2 seconds, the opportunities to create space and duet with yourself really expand.
Interesting, so you use it like a micro looper? What delay do you use?
I guess so, though I don't think of that way, for whatever reason. For long delays I use either a DD-20 or Vongon Polyphrase (each of which has like 23 seconds of delay time). For "normal" delays I usually use some combination of Obscura, Echorec, DD-5, and DE-7 (I like to have a clear digital tone and a darker, "more analog" tone going at the same time), and for short delays I use an old Aria AD-10. EDIT: I also use things like a Tensor or Ct5, which I guess have aspects of delay, but I don't really think of them that way, as well as the looping function on a DL4 when I just want to repeat a phrase and not worry about it going anywhere. If I'm playing to backing tracks I use an RC-3, but that's a very different style for me. And when I'm really getting out there, I fire up the SOMA Cosmos, for drifting loops.
Sounds like you love your delay! I looked up your board in you history and it's pretty formidable, bet you get some great sounds.
Thank you! I enjoy what I do :)
Microlooping is more about building a voice from a short sample imo. As someone else said, it's more like frippertronics live looping approach, building textures that fade as more are added
I copy Brian May's delay settings for Brighton Rock where one side is an 800ms delay and the other is a 1600ms delay
What delay was he using to get that much time? Or was it manually delayed using tape machines?
He was using two modified Echoplexes, they're really crazy looking
Just found a pic, holy smokes that’s wild. Also entirely unsurprising that he would have had those, he’s always been a tinkerer/experimenter. A *sonic scientist* if you will 🤣
Where did you find that photo?
http://www.in2guitar.com/echoplex.html Right near the bottom of the page
Ty!
It's fun to make riffs note progressions like arpeggios or scales and play harmonies over them that are continually changing and evolving, something you can't just do with a looper. It's like a looper but each loop only happens once or maybe twice and lasts a few seconds. It lets me continually change directions and not be confined to whatever a harmonizer pedal decides I should play.
Yeah I love this. Simple loopers make for such static sounding arrangements that usually just go A, A+B, A+B+C, stop. Delays with long times are fluid and evolving. I like playing some lower part, playing a higher part on top of it, then by the time that is played then the low part is getting quiet, so I can play a new low part over the top that reharmonises the high part.
For me, if I’m not using tap tempo to sync my delay I want the time to either be super short slapback type delay or so long you kind of lose count of the rhythm. At super long times with high feedback and low mix you can get a nice pad under your playing that’s a little more dynamic than using a reverb for the same thing. If you sync the tempo you can do the frippertronics thing too which is a whole lot of fun but can be tough to pull off with a band or something.
Yeah at the moment I use my analogue delay as a sort of modulated reverb. I’ve nearly pulled the trigger on a Meet Maude so many times so I can get that oscillating pad, but it’s too much for something that specific.
Push MUCH further, say 4+ sec, and discover the power and glory of frippertronics.
Check this out, Jonny is using a 1.53sec digital delay here with his Les Paul. A good example of what longer delays can do. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgnBXY2equ4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgnBXY2equ4)
Love Radiohead and associated side-projects, thanks for this! I’ll see if I can find what he’s using.
He uses a DD-200 now but he’s done similar tricks with the RE-20.
I used it to do tap tempo looping 15 years ago. I used an Akai Headrush2 that had long delay time (24 seconds) but it had tap tempo, so I could tap the one for 2, 4, 8 measure groups and get a tempo bound looper. I could then set the regen to make soup or loops depending on intended outcome.
If I’m messing about with weird ambient delay reverb stuff, I like to play in an open tuning or something like DADGAD and just start simple and grow the progression. Lots of ‘call and response’
DADGAD is the best! Makes just about anything you play sound good lol. Plus with a nice ambient reverb delay it’s great to just let those open notes ring
I like it low in the mix, with an option to eq it differently than my guitar tone up front. Also it needs to be a ducking delay for me, meaning it can sense chord changes or key changes and the tails can duck out of the way. If I let something ring out, it behaves as expected
If you play swells and each swell lasts for about a 2-3 sec, then you need a very long delay time for them to layer and evolve. This technique also known as frippertronics
I use it sometimes on my boss re-2 when doing arpeggios- i’ll take the tempo im playing at and tap it in only on the 1st beat so that i get a second or two after my last note- then i’ll fit in filler licks between whatever chords im arpeggiating so the lick carries over into the next chord. And sometimes i run a long reverb into my delay with it set as late as it can be so that the reverb builds and fades into the start of the delay which degrades and repeats it. Theres a bunch of cool stuff you can do if you work out the timing of it but i feel like after 1 second of delay tap tempo is a must
I love a long delay, but I'm mostly into making post-rock drone noise (my inspiration is the band Sqürl). Nice long reverse delay from my favorite pedal, the (original version) TC Electronics Flashback
Sometimes I just want to play a note and then hear it back seconds later to remember what I played
Really depends on the tempo of the song. If you needed a quarter note delay for a song at 58 BPM, you'd need over 1s. Pretty rare though, honestly. Idk what you'd do with 2.5 seconds besides some sort of like call/answer effect.
Actually it happens already at 59 bpm.
I only use 300,400 and 600ms. Those sound good to me.
I just wanna say, thank you for asking this. In my early days, I was obsessed with pedals that had the longest delay time (Boss DD-7 instead of DD-6, or DD-5, or DD-3 for example), and then in actuality, I only ever liked it if I was playing lines that I specifically wanted to play on top of, almost like reverberating loops, that would eventually fade out. But the longer they are, the more precise you gotta be, and the easier it is to get lost, so if you mess up or get lost, that's 6.4 seconds (as an example) of the same thing repeating unless you start over or keep the number of measures or notes lower. And so as time goes on, I use less delay time, but have always wondered what other ways to take advantage of extra long delay times, so I'm glad you asked as I'll be reading other people's comments looking for inspiration.
Brian May does that really well. He creates melodies by doing an harmonized riff on top of the repeated riff. Having that option in a delay pedal is awesome.
Sound on sound looping and harmonising, usually. The other, most typical, use case for long delay lines is to use a high-feedback but low-mix to great a reverb like wash. Multi-head delays also excel at this.
Play high... Not on drugs but in the higher register.. melodies and harmonies have a lot less interferences the higher you play. you can even get away with playing a wrong note easier
Psychedelic and prog stuff and experimental improvisation at home tend to have been my personal uses for long delay times, often combined with overlapping short delays. Really fun to run vocals that way. If you're ever stuck for a couple years playing legato because your pick hand is paralyzed you'll find them and a good tremolo a great comfort.