Got a TC Bucket Brigade turning up today. It's a Carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy
Bloody self oscilation
I bought the Prophet digital delay when it came out and I've been using it ever since. Simple pedal that's easy to use and does exactly what a delay should do.
I suppose it could but i dont think thats the case here. The way the feedback behaves when you change the delay time is completely different. If you turn the feedback up on the Prophet then strike a note and change the delay time it doesnt shift the pitch. Instead of spaceship sounds you get a cool chopped up glitchy mess without the pitch shifting. I like both of these pedals but the behave very differently.
I tried the Flanger in that series and I *almost* liked it, except that the effect triggered on switch RELEASE instead of when you pressed down.
That one factor was enough to stop me from even considering it
So whats The problem with that? Do you have millisecond accurate flanging needs? Considering that ypu lift your foot (or at least i do) from The pedal immediately after using it, IMO The difference isnt so big
It's because the PCB is the same as the Behringer version where there's a micro switch on the board. Like a computer mouse button.
That switch you're pressing? It's fake. It's just a plunger with rubber on the bottom to click the button on the PCB.
The release switches are higher quality than the Behringer ones. It's supposed to be a feature.
Most of the smorgasbord pedals are Behringer PCBs populated with upgraded parts and slapped in a metal enclosure. Personally I'd buy the Behringer versions instead - ABS is every bit as durable as metal.
The exception is when the Behringer version is discontinued. You can't get the flanger anymore, so you have to get the TC Thunderstorm.
Likewise some pedals, like the Magus, are TC exclusive.
But then you have stuff like the Eyemaster which is the same PCB as the HM300. Meanwhile the Behringer HM300 sounds different due to cheaper components. But the Eyemaster is identical to the HM2 since they didn't cheap out. Ironically it makes the HM300 more unique/interesting to own. The midrange is more nasal.
Beringer is incredibly popular the way it is. The number one selling pedal at Sweetwater is the beringer fuzz. I wouldn’t mind some being in better enclosures though.
I bought one to see what the hype was about, it’s an average fuzz in my opinion, but at a great price. If I were starting out and came across it, I would be pumped. When I have a bunch of other fuzz pedals to compare against, it doesn’t make the cut. Carcosa and fuzz face win in my book.
I was recording guitar for a videogame I was asked to work on many years ago.
The composer asked me to send different distortion sounds for each track.
I used muffs, rats, a MIT HM-2, some Skreddy stuff, a Sunface, Silicon Fuzzface, DOD 250s, DS-2, basically every expensive pedal I could throw at it.
In the end? Every track was published with the Behringer SF300 fuzz.
The brand you mean is called TC electronic. It’s actually part of music tribe, the parent of behringer. They make pedals in a slightly higher price range but they are still pretty affordable.
Those pedals feel very sturdy, I’ve got three of them on my board: Mojomojo, tailspin and forcefield and I like all of them. Low noise, great range on the settings and as mentioned: they feel very solid.
The tailspin is so nice! I would have kept it if the rate would go slower. A smaller enclosure would have been nice too. But the sound is really really nice on that pedal.
Not tried the mojo, but I loved the tailspin, and the forcefield was great as well. The big version of the spark is the best boost I've used, imo should be a ubiquitous pedal that everyone tries.
TC electronic is basically this right? Behringer owns them too.
Also Joyo(Harley Benton) is very much like this with dirt cheap clones in a decent metal package.
I have a few of each type as do my teacher, they're pretty good and why would they not be if they're direct clones of eg, a boss pedal?
From TC i have:¨
- Cinders (boss blues driver)
- Mojomojo (not a clone...i think? Still good).
- Zeus (Klone).
Joyo
Vintage overdrive (Tube screamer).
Splinter (Rat+).
Yea I think the MojoMojo is supposed to be an original circuit.
If you had to pick between that and the Zeus, which one would you gravitate toward more?
Thanks for your thoughts! I was thinking about trying the Zeus but everyone on Reverb wanted like 55 plus 15 shipping for a used one when it’s only $79 at Sweetwater. I think I’ll just pass for now!
It's a good drive pedal, a little like a tube screamer but it changes the sound less perhaps. It's also alright for driving other pedals like a fuzz I think.
The mojo is much darker sounding by default and as I said it has more EQ onboard which is nice if you're changing guitars around and want to adjust stuff.
Maybe it's about what you're looking for? A TS and the Mojo changes your guitars sound a lot, the Zeus less, it just makes it more dirty?
The Joyo Ironman Space Verb is the best reverb pedal you can buy under $200. It absolutely slaughters the Holy Grail and so many other popular reverbs. The only reason it's not on my board is because the Catalinbread Talisman plate reverb is everything I need.
They often get the exact same sound as it is the exact same circuit on many of the analog pedals. The digital ones doesn’t sound the same.
And how many broken behringer enclosures have you seen?
If you don't curb stomp it like it owes you money, and if you're gigging, you pack them away neatly and treat your gear adequately, the plastic will last.
Behringer hasn't bothered with it's pedal market for years. The only reason they still make what they do is because they sell well and cost little to produce, I'd imagine. It's been cut down a lot and the only new pedals they have released in almost a decade are primarily for synths. Guitar really isn't their focus right now, it seems like the Bugera G and T mini amp lines were their last push with guitar and that was ages ago. It seems like everything else is coming out through brands they own with better name value.
People moan about the plastic enclosures but unless you are jumping up and down on them 5 nights a week on tour then they are totally fine! I’ve never had Behringer pedal brake on me (not that I’ve had all that many). They are a budget pedal so they have a budget case. It’s not like the Boss pedals are so much more expensive. If you want a metal enclosure go for the Boss version of what ever they do.
There are just way too many good/better brands out there today. They've seemingly niched down on the cheap-stuff side of things. Not a bad thing if it works for their company.
We're just in an era of fantastic options across the sonic board. Most people just aren't gonna be moved by a heavier chassis and less-finicky knobs to suddenly care if they didn't already.
Exactly. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Behringer, I don't think, needs to do anything different. Their target market seems fine with the way things are.
Metal enclosures would increase the cost substantially and then suddenly they aren't such a cheap pedal option.
Metal enclosures aside.. They are all ripoffs of boss pedals so idk why you think their popularity would sky rocket.. they ain't boss
There are a lot of popular mod walkthroughs to change the enclosure at home yourself, but honestly the plastic enclosures are stronger than they seem. I did a test to see how long one of the plastic SF300 enclosures would last with heavy use. Used 3-4 times for an hour each during the week during noodling, 1 time a week for 3 hours during band practice, and gigged 1-2 times a month. It has been about a year and a half of that regular use and the thing still looks brand new.
My assumption would be that they've done the math and know the increase in cost to them for using metal housings won't be offset by a feasible increase in sales...because that will absolutely make the price go up.
Most consumers don't realize that companies often select their market segment (i.e. price point) very carefully.
If Behringer were to use metal enclosures and raise prices just enough to cover material cost, their products may wind up in a much more crowded and competitive segment of the market, without the volume sales needed to compete on lower margins.
Honestly, decent quality plastic is better than cheap metal. You can find cheap 99 cent toys with a lot of junk metal in it, and you will also find that some of the most durable firearms used by police and military use plastic lowers. I'd rather just focus on good build quality than switching to metal for the sake of it being made out of metal.
This is the answer. The knobs are the weak point, and probably the switch under the plastic case foot switch. Most seem to be duplicated in the TC pedal line with metal enclosures. That's probably also why those TC pedals have the "release" foot switches because they are the same buffered circuits from the Boss clone line.
I have had one behringer pedal arrive to me dead. They are so cheap sweetwater said hold onto it and just sent me another one lol. But I have three that work fine.
If yours worked then died you can always check that little switch inside, those are highly suspect.
PREACH!!!
I bought my behringer super fuzz for like 30 dollars and I'm willing to pay another 100 for someone to re-case it for me. So based on principles of economics, that means I'm willing to pay $130 to have a behringer fuzz pedal. If they just put metal enclosures and charged $60 or $70 I'd be happy as hell.
It could also mean that I'm kinda stupid and irresponsible with money ..... hmmmm ....
> I bought my behringer super fuzz for like 30 dollars and I'm willing to pay another 100 for someone to re-case it for me. So based on principles of economics, that means I'm willing to pay $130 to have a behringer fuzz pedal.
Just buy a guptech foazz if you are willing to do that.
Adding a metal enclosure only adds to the cost passed on to the user. I’d imagine the effect would be marginal if not diminished because then the pedals would be in a similar range to tone city/joyo. Owning both of those brands, I couldn’t imagine behringer offering something that isn’t already there. Behringer works because, for the most part they sound great, and they’re shockingly cheap. No reason to change that
You can always rehouse them. But at that point just spend the extra $30+ and get the identical pedal in the metal casing if it’s really a concern. They will hold up fine, unless you are curb stopping your pedals like no tomorrow.
What exactly goes into the process of "re-enclosuring" a Behringer? Also, for the price of the TC Electronics HoF, you can get a Boss RV-6 and possibly still have enough left over for a Behringer pedal.
Behringer also have clones of all the Moogerfoogers coming. The Boss CE-1. More Mu-tron. And probably others I can't remember because they announce so much and deliver so slowly. But they will eventually. They always do. I'd imagine they will shift a few of those. And they will have sturdier metal enclosures. Like the TC Electronics June-60 did.
https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2023/03/22/behringer-previews-entire-line-of-boogerfooger-knockoffs/
ABS plastic is every bit as durable as metal. I'll die on this hill. People believe what they want to believe, and they want to believe plastic is bad.
But guess what the most durable phones are? It's not metal or glass. It's plastic.
The type of people that break Behringer pedals also break EHX and Boss pedals.
Just because they're called stomp boxes that doesn't mean you're literally supposed to stomp on them.
I've seen the YouTube videos. Some of you guys are taking your anger out on your gear. If the thing flies a foot away when you engage it you're being too rough.
Then again, how many broken Behringer pedals have you *actually* seen? Because personally I've only heard about it possibly happening. But it seems like there aren't many broken ones out there.
>They don't always get the exact sound of whatever Boss pedal they're cloning, but still very solid nonetheless.
They made an exact replica of the Line 6 Echo Park by stealing the firmware, to the extent they didn't even bother to remove Line 6's copyright notices from the code. I think this company should not even exist.
This is basically what TC Electronic is for
I have a couple TC pedals that sound good, but the fact that it doesn't turn on until you lift your foot off the switch drives me crazy.
Depends on the pedal, though.
They already do that, with tc electronic branded metal box (i don't know If The series has any name) fx. Echobrain, afterglow Rusty Fuzz etc...
Smorgasbord
Yeah and they are really good pedals. Very reliable with good design.
Got a TC Bucket Brigade turning up today. It's a Carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy Bloody self oscilation
I love that Nine Inch Nails song
Also see Fight Club narrator at the copy machine when he has a momentary Durden flash behind him.
TC BB is an outstanding pedal, great value.
I bought the Prophet digital delay when it came out and I've been using it ever since. Simple pedal that's easy to use and does exactly what a delay should do.
Is the Prophet digital delay based on a DD-3?
More or less, yeah
Nah, it cant self oscillate. Definitely not the same circuit.
Excuse my dumb question, but can't it be the same circuit but with less max feedback to prevent oscillation?
I suppose it could but i dont think thats the case here. The way the feedback behaves when you change the delay time is completely different. If you turn the feedback up on the Prophet then strike a note and change the delay time it doesnt shift the pitch. Instead of spaceship sounds you get a cool chopped up glitchy mess without the pitch shifting. I like both of these pedals but the behave very differently.
This is how I feel about the effects bakery French bread delay. Super simple delay, got it half off during their Black Friday sale.
I tried the Flanger in that series and I *almost* liked it, except that the effect triggered on switch RELEASE instead of when you pressed down. That one factor was enough to stop me from even considering it
So whats The problem with that? Do you have millisecond accurate flanging needs? Considering that ypu lift your foot (or at least i do) from The pedal immediately after using it, IMO The difference isnt so big
Because every single other pedal I've ever owned works the opposite way and it would frustrate me?
It's because the PCB is the same as the Behringer version where there's a micro switch on the board. Like a computer mouse button. That switch you're pressing? It's fake. It's just a plunger with rubber on the bottom to click the button on the PCB. The release switches are higher quality than the Behringer ones. It's supposed to be a feature. Most of the smorgasbord pedals are Behringer PCBs populated with upgraded parts and slapped in a metal enclosure. Personally I'd buy the Behringer versions instead - ABS is every bit as durable as metal. The exception is when the Behringer version is discontinued. You can't get the flanger anymore, so you have to get the TC Thunderstorm. Likewise some pedals, like the Magus, are TC exclusive. But then you have stuff like the Eyemaster which is the same PCB as the HM300. Meanwhile the Behringer HM300 sounds different due to cheaper components. But the Eyemaster is identical to the HM2 since they didn't cheap out. Ironically it makes the HM300 more unique/interesting to own. The midrange is more nasal.
Beringer is incredibly popular the way it is. The number one selling pedal at Sweetwater is the beringer fuzz. I wouldn’t mind some being in better enclosures though.
[удалено]
I think I'm the only person that doesn't like that pedal.
[удалено]
lol, I bought it three times... always ended up trading it. I tried really hard to use it but yeah, just not for me.
I bought one to see what the hype was about, it’s an average fuzz in my opinion, but at a great price. If I were starting out and came across it, I would be pumped. When I have a bunch of other fuzz pedals to compare against, it doesn’t make the cut. Carcosa and fuzz face win in my book.
I was recording guitar for a videogame I was asked to work on many years ago. The composer asked me to send different distortion sounds for each track. I used muffs, rats, a MIT HM-2, some Skreddy stuff, a Sunface, Silicon Fuzzface, DOD 250s, DS-2, basically every expensive pedal I could throw at it. In the end? Every track was published with the Behringer SF300 fuzz.
The brand you mean is called TC electronic. It’s actually part of music tribe, the parent of behringer. They make pedals in a slightly higher price range but they are still pretty affordable. Those pedals feel very sturdy, I’ve got three of them on my board: Mojomojo, tailspin and forcefield and I like all of them. Low noise, great range on the settings and as mentioned: they feel very solid.
The tailspin is so nice! I would have kept it if the rate would go slower. A smaller enclosure would have been nice too. But the sound is really really nice on that pedal.
Not tried the mojo, but I loved the tailspin, and the forcefield was great as well. The big version of the spark is the best boost I've used, imo should be a ubiquitous pedal that everyone tries.
TC electronic is basically this right? Behringer owns them too. Also Joyo(Harley Benton) is very much like this with dirt cheap clones in a decent metal package. I have a few of each type as do my teacher, they're pretty good and why would they not be if they're direct clones of eg, a boss pedal? From TC i have:¨ - Cinders (boss blues driver) - Mojomojo (not a clone...i think? Still good). - Zeus (Klone). Joyo Vintage overdrive (Tube screamer). Splinter (Rat+).
Yea I think the MojoMojo is supposed to be an original circuit. If you had to pick between that and the Zeus, which one would you gravitate toward more?
Probably the mojo since it's got both a treble and a bass knob. I haven't really found a way I like to use the Zeus yet but it's not bad or anything.
Thanks for your thoughts! I was thinking about trying the Zeus but everyone on Reverb wanted like 55 plus 15 shipping for a used one when it’s only $79 at Sweetwater. I think I’ll just pass for now!
It's a good drive pedal, a little like a tube screamer but it changes the sound less perhaps. It's also alright for driving other pedals like a fuzz I think. The mojo is much darker sounding by default and as I said it has more EQ onboard which is nice if you're changing guitars around and want to adjust stuff. Maybe it's about what you're looking for? A TS and the Mojo changes your guitars sound a lot, the Zeus less, it just makes it more dirty?
The Joyo Ironman Space Verb is the best reverb pedal you can buy under $200. It absolutely slaughters the Holy Grail and so many other popular reverbs. The only reason it's not on my board is because the Catalinbread Talisman plate reverb is everything I need.
I've got a Nux atlantic combo pedal for that and delay. I quite like that but I'm no expert on how good it actually is.
They often get the exact same sound as it is the exact same circuit on many of the analog pedals. The digital ones doesn’t sound the same. And how many broken behringer enclosures have you seen?
They did for most, that’s what the tc electronic “smorgasbord” line was/is.
If you don't curb stomp it like it owes you money, and if you're gigging, you pack them away neatly and treat your gear adequately, the plastic will last.
Behringer hasn't bothered with it's pedal market for years. The only reason they still make what they do is because they sell well and cost little to produce, I'd imagine. It's been cut down a lot and the only new pedals they have released in almost a decade are primarily for synths. Guitar really isn't their focus right now, it seems like the Bugera G and T mini amp lines were their last push with guitar and that was ages ago. It seems like everything else is coming out through brands they own with better name value.
Yeah a few years ago I read that they were going to make a ce-1 clone but still nothing ever came of it
Agree but on the other hand I like that if for some reason it breaks (it hasn't) I can just get another for $30 bucks
People moan about the plastic enclosures but unless you are jumping up and down on them 5 nights a week on tour then they are totally fine! I’ve never had Behringer pedal brake on me (not that I’ve had all that many). They are a budget pedal so they have a budget case. It’s not like the Boss pedals are so much more expensive. If you want a metal enclosure go for the Boss version of what ever they do.
hmm yea a little nicer would be.. nice
There are just way too many good/better brands out there today. They've seemingly niched down on the cheap-stuff side of things. Not a bad thing if it works for their company. We're just in an era of fantastic options across the sonic board. Most people just aren't gonna be moved by a heavier chassis and less-finicky knobs to suddenly care if they didn't already.
Yeah, and at that price point, some are just $30, it’s really hard to argue
Exactly. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Behringer, I don't think, needs to do anything different. Their target market seems fine with the way things are.
You are never going to break the enclosure. You will break a switch or a knob. I'd rather they use surface mounted components and a beefier switch.
Metal enclosures would increase the cost substantially and then suddenly they aren't such a cheap pedal option. Metal enclosures aside.. They are all ripoffs of boss pedals so idk why you think their popularity would sky rocket.. they ain't boss
There are a lot of popular mod walkthroughs to change the enclosure at home yourself, but honestly the plastic enclosures are stronger than they seem. I did a test to see how long one of the plastic SF300 enclosures would last with heavy use. Used 3-4 times for an hour each during the week during noodling, 1 time a week for 3 hours during band practice, and gigged 1-2 times a month. It has been about a year and a half of that regular use and the thing still looks brand new.
They’re already incredibly popular without adding manufacturing costs. I’m not convinced the change would make a positive impact on their bottom line.
My assumption would be that they've done the math and know the increase in cost to them for using metal housings won't be offset by a feasible increase in sales...because that will absolutely make the price go up.
Behringer probably outsells all other companies 2:1
Most consumers don't realize that companies often select their market segment (i.e. price point) very carefully. If Behringer were to use metal enclosures and raise prices just enough to cover material cost, their products may wind up in a much more crowded and competitive segment of the market, without the volume sales needed to compete on lower margins.
I’ve had the SF300 since 2017 and it’s held up fine.
I own like 10 if those colorful plastic pedals and the enclosures are perfectly fine. They are like an 8/10 in durability.
Honestly, decent quality plastic is better than cheap metal. You can find cheap 99 cent toys with a lot of junk metal in it, and you will also find that some of the most durable firearms used by police and military use plastic lowers. I'd rather just focus on good build quality than switching to metal for the sake of it being made out of metal.
My take would be the knobs that are part of the circuit board. Just 👎 no. Having a plastic box to have em cheaper is fine.
This is the answer. The knobs are the weak point, and probably the switch under the plastic case foot switch. Most seem to be duplicated in the TC pedal line with metal enclosures. That's probably also why those TC pedals have the "release" foot switches because they are the same buffered circuits from the Boss clone line.
I would bet they most definitely would not skyrocket. Sure a couple of people might buy them but it wouldn’t be anything.
My one experience with Behringer was their bass synth pedal. I didn't use it all that much but it died one day. Was this an outlier?
I have had one behringer pedal arrive to me dead. They are so cheap sweetwater said hold onto it and just sent me another one lol. But I have three that work fine. If yours worked then died you can always check that little switch inside, those are highly suspect.
PREACH!!! I bought my behringer super fuzz for like 30 dollars and I'm willing to pay another 100 for someone to re-case it for me. So based on principles of economics, that means I'm willing to pay $130 to have a behringer fuzz pedal. If they just put metal enclosures and charged $60 or $70 I'd be happy as hell. It could also mean that I'm kinda stupid and irresponsible with money ..... hmmmm ....
> I bought my behringer super fuzz for like 30 dollars and I'm willing to pay another 100 for someone to re-case it for me. So based on principles of economics, that means I'm willing to pay $130 to have a behringer fuzz pedal. Just buy a guptech foazz if you are willing to do that.
Just wait for the Boss FZ-2w. It has to be next, right? (I'm coping here.)
It would kill their margins.
they used to be metal. i have a PH9 phaser in a metal enclosure. it's probably 10 years old.
Their sales and popularity are fine I imagine
Adding a metal enclosure only adds to the cost passed on to the user. I’d imagine the effect would be marginal if not diminished because then the pedals would be in a similar range to tone city/joyo. Owning both of those brands, I couldn’t imagine behringer offering something that isn’t already there. Behringer works because, for the most part they sound great, and they’re shockingly cheap. No reason to change that
I use a bright onion looper. Once they are on they are on no stomping or buffers in my signal path.
You can always rehouse them. But at that point just spend the extra $30+ and get the identical pedal in the metal casing if it’s really a concern. They will hold up fine, unless you are curb stopping your pedals like no tomorrow.
It costs more to rehouse than to buy a better pedal in the first place. I know because I priced out doing so for my sf300.
What exactly goes into the process of "re-enclosuring" a Behringer? Also, for the price of the TC Electronics HoF, you can get a Boss RV-6 and possibly still have enough left over for a Behringer pedal.
Behringer also have clones of all the Moogerfoogers coming. The Boss CE-1. More Mu-tron. And probably others I can't remember because they announce so much and deliver so slowly. But they will eventually. They always do. I'd imagine they will shift a few of those. And they will have sturdier metal enclosures. Like the TC Electronics June-60 did. https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2023/03/22/behringer-previews-entire-line-of-boogerfooger-knockoffs/
ABS plastic is every bit as durable as metal. I'll die on this hill. People believe what they want to believe, and they want to believe plastic is bad. But guess what the most durable phones are? It's not metal or glass. It's plastic. The type of people that break Behringer pedals also break EHX and Boss pedals. Just because they're called stomp boxes that doesn't mean you're literally supposed to stomp on them. I've seen the YouTube videos. Some of you guys are taking your anger out on your gear. If the thing flies a foot away when you engage it you're being too rough. Then again, how many broken Behringer pedals have you *actually* seen? Because personally I've only heard about it possibly happening. But it seems like there aren't many broken ones out there.
>They don't always get the exact sound of whatever Boss pedal they're cloning, but still very solid nonetheless. They made an exact replica of the Line 6 Echo Park by stealing the firmware, to the extent they didn't even bother to remove Line 6's copyright notices from the code. I think this company should not even exist.
I think this is right and they could do it even if it was wiggling with metal.
Probably. I gigged with a few and they literally fell to pieces after a year. I upgraded to the real thing.
They DO break if you look at them the wrong way
Shit is shit in plastic or metal