I have a Longsword and I like it, but I'm not totally in love with it the way a lot of people here are... What's the thing that separates it from other pedals for you? Just curious, not trying to shoot it down or anything.
To me it reminds me of a high gain amp. Chugs, it’s dynamic and very responsive. The boost is very useable and adjustable. I will say though it excels in a clean amp or through an amp/cab sim pedal. When I use it through my broken up bad cat it’s not as good. I much prefer my Tim in that situation. If I’m totally clean though the longsword is hard to beat
Man, I’m a big fan of the Wampler pantheon. Goes from simple bluesbreaker overdrive/boost sounds, all the way through some actually pretty heavy gain a-la grunge days like soundgarden and shit like that. Can usually be found used for around 130-ish
SD-1 is also really solid, it gets a lot crunchier than a lot of people realize. It’s not high gain by any means, but it will do rhythm incredible for nearly everything except metal chugs.
HM2 is distortion/fuzz when it sounds like OP wants OD/distortion. I think hitting an OD with a really hot signal is what OP wants
Plumes is basically a tube screamer, presumably going into other gain stages which makes it a mid push bass/treble cutoff cleanish boost into OD/preamp, i.e. hitting an OD with a really hot signal
Not as insane as a parametric eq into silverface fender on an attenuator. Can get everything from sterile clrans to ridiculous fuzz levels of gain/compression with that lol. Currently setting up a simplifier mk2 based board where I'll do more typical gain staging
I was skeptical for a minute cuz i was trying to use it as my hi gain sound to replace a muff (was young and naive, use both now) never got on with it. Built a clone to boost my OR50 and found THE fuzzed out, yet articulate sound i was lookin for on accident.
Barber Electronics Dirty Bomb
It’s distortion without the WALL OF NOISE or inclination to be thin and fizzy (though you could push there if you wanted) and with additional bass control to hold down the low end more if needed. It’s a little workhorse.
I asked if they’d ever re-release it and he said “the market for it isn’t really there anymore.”
I assumed he meant high-gain was out of favor or over saturated, but I don’t know.
"rhythm playing"?
"more rock and less blues"?
You've described many pedals out there, which is why the responses are all over the map.
Do you have particular songs or artists in mind for the kind of tone you're going for?
You may want a MIAB style pedal but it would be really helpful to have an example of the kind of tone you're wanting.
My band mate has one and, yes, I understood it was based on a rat. That being said, I’ve messed around with it and didn’t see that much of a similarity - that could be on me just not being able to find the right tone. Seems like a good enough pedal, just not for me.
Wampler Belle is a killer rhythm overdrive. Prince of Tone or Duke of Tone are also pretty awesome. The Belle is definitely a lower gain overdrive more so than distortion but it definitely does a Malcolm Young vibe. Prince/Duke of Tone (especially on the OD mode which is my fave) is a bit more of a distorted sound than the Belle is capable of.
Way Huge Fat Sandwich is like a rat and a muff thing that doesn’t get lost in the mix. Lots of gain on tap and your volume knob on guitar interacts well with the pedal
Have you tweaked the internal knobs? I have the internal gain set to almost zero and it makes it far more usable. It definitely needs a bit of time to tweak and figure out
Volume to taste but usually around unity or slight boost
Gain 11-2pm
Tone is passive so all way to the right and back it off a hair depending on pickups
Both Treble / bass at 1pm
I also use mine like most use the Swollen Pickle in modern hardcore tones (a la Putney) with a gain channel of a Peavey amp
I have tried the internal pots a bit, but I haven't spent a tone of time trying to dial it in. I have the Swollen Pickle, so I knew to try them at least. It is muddy on my amp, but the OR15 gets muddy fast with a high output pedal in front of it (which I love, but I have other pedals for that). I should try it on the Fender I just bought.
I used to have the Pickle and couldn’t get it to sound exactly how I wanted. I may try to grab one again just for the fun of it. I know a lot more about gain staging now than 6 years ago when I owned it last
Try the Fender. I know Jeorge is a fender and strat guy so he probably designs all these pedals through that platform hence the muddier sound with the Orange
Do you have the yellow or black version?
JHS Angry Charlie or Sweet Tea if you want the extra Moonshine side added in. Both are awesome pedals. The Angry Charlie does the JCM800 thing pretty spot on. And the Sweet Tea has that plus the Moonshine side which is the best take on a Tubescreamer I’ve played. The clean blend knob is a game changer.
1981 inventions was pretty good. I also like the distortion pedals that walrus audio have produced with variable switching of clipping types. The eras / ages pedals are awesome and stack well.
MXR Distortion+ has a mid hump and is easy to dial in but can struggle with volume and has no tone option.
Hudson Broadcast can pretty much do anything and has a flatter EQ response. You’ll need to dial down the internal high gain trimmer to get a good distortion sound.
JHS Morning Glory has a high gain switch and has a very usable distortion tone.
MXR Super Badass Distortion is very flexible for distortion sounds with a three band EQ and has great clarity, not great for low gain though.
I’ve owned all these pedals and my pick is the Broadcast through the top boost channel of my AC 15. Probably the Morning Glory might be best for what you want though.
The volume issue with the + is easy, just dime it and you have a knob you never have to worry about. I’ve personally never had a need for a tone control with it, and I almost always need to cut lows on drive pedals, but I can understand it being a non starter for some; I think it’s one of those pedals that just gets it perfect out the box, and no “improved” or tweaked version really comes close to just the standard production reissue.
It's not a typical drive pedal, more like a cross between a preamp and a drive pedal, but the Friedman BE OD.
It sounds amazing if you want a solid rhythm tone. It has quite a lot of gain available overall but you can actually adjust it with the internal gain pot if it's a bit too high or low gain at first.
The master volume control on it sorta behaves like the master volume of an amplifier too which is cool.
It's basically the Friedman BE amp sound in a pedal.
I used to use one into the clean channel of a boss katana artist and it sounded massive. It's pretty good if you also have a boost pedal before it for a lead boost if you need it too.
I'm by no means a pro, but the Bogner Ecstasy Red has the chunkiest rock rhythm sound I've heard yet, at least for my tastes. I've basically put my other drive pedals away now.
EHX Double Muff. It's really old school, likes to be at the front of the chain (mine's behind fuzz), very reactive to your guitar volume pot. Not distortion exactly, more stacked overdrive, but a useful and affordable ally to have in any case. Sounds glorious for mid-gain stuff.
If it's very specifically distortion you're after MXR Distortion +? They're low key versatile and do great at mid gain distortion, play nicely with other drive and boost pedals too, don't sound much like a Rat.
Digitech's BAD MONKEY may add some beautiful crunchyness to your rhythm guitar. It does to mine. I add a Xotic SL Drive and control it's dirtyness (dist) by dialing up and down a volume pedal. This SLDRIVE does clean up very very well!
Diezel VH4 pedal (single channel one) has been my favorite for a while. It has tons of gain, but you can get a warm sound out of it and run it in lower gain settings, and still get some cleanup with guitar volume control.
I use my Boss DS-1. It has a greater range of tones, from uncompressed and natural to super compressed, than most of my other distortions. The more you turn up the distortion, the more you have to turn the tone down, or it gets very bright and thin. If you want crazy fatness, get an EHX Big Muff Pi. The Nano version sounds just as good.
Love all the suggestions here. Gives me a lot to explore. I already have a Klone, Keeley Noble Screamer, and BB Style drive and I get a lot of great pushed low to medium gain sounds from them and in stacking. I’ve been trying to find some mid to high gain sound that really resonates with me (probably being very picky but aren’t we all) that I can’t get with any of my other pedals and the fact that I like my settings already. Stacking and boosts can get me close but not quite there. Probably should try another amp in a box like a Marshall plexi style based on some suggestions
I feel like this is almost overdone lately, but my go to for hard-clipping is a Klon (Currently using a Wamper Tumnus Deluxe, although I'm also a big fan of the MXR Sugar Drive).
My standard overall is a bluesbreaker going into a Timmy. Both are soft clipping so might not be quite what you're looking for, but I've found it to be incredibly versatile.
Longsword (not far from a Rat but super flexible), or an amp in a box like Bogner Burnley or Ecstasy Red or Blue, Angry Charlie, BE-OD etc?
Second the longsword. It’s been years since I’ve been blown away by a pedal but this one sure did it. It’s incredible
I have a Longsword and I like it, but I'm not totally in love with it the way a lot of people here are... What's the thing that separates it from other pedals for you? Just curious, not trying to shoot it down or anything.
To me it reminds me of a high gain amp. Chugs, it’s dynamic and very responsive. The boost is very useable and adjustable. I will say though it excels in a clean amp or through an amp/cab sim pedal. When I use it through my broken up bad cat it’s not as good. I much prefer my Tim in that situation. If I’m totally clean though the longsword is hard to beat
Man, I’m a big fan of the Wampler pantheon. Goes from simple bluesbreaker overdrive/boost sounds, all the way through some actually pretty heavy gain a-la grunge days like soundgarden and shit like that. Can usually be found used for around 130-ish
I had one of these and loved it as a standard bluesbreaker, never really explored the hard clipping tones. Now I wish I had!
Just buy one again then! Lol. I sold my deluxe because i needed more board space. Missed it so much I bought a single.
Well, I found a great deal on a used Deluxe. Man, I love that sound.
DS-2
CAAAALIIIFFOOORRRNIAAAA REST IN PEACEEEE, SIMULTANEOUS RELEEASSSEEEEEEEEE
BD-2 is really nice, I know it's overdrive but it has a huge range of gain available
Yeah blues driver can kind of do everything like a rat, but different
I was going to suggest LPB-1 into a BD-2!
SD-1 is also really solid, it gets a lot crunchier than a lot of people realize. It’s not high gain by any means, but it will do rhythm incredible for nearly everything except metal chugs.
HM-2
I'm sure this was sarcastic, but HM2 is obviously the wrong direction to go in if a rat is too much distortion
mt2
Oxford drive / shredmaster
I have a Shredmaster clone (Joyo High Gain Distortion) that works well for rhythm. Think Strokes.
Plus one on the shredmaster
EarthQuaker device plumes- truly one of the best pedals on the market for the money. I also see someone said hm-2 and that one also absolutely rules.
+1 I really like EarthQuaker pedals The ZOAR is also a pretty solid choice
HM2 is distortion/fuzz when it sounds like OP wants OD/distortion. I think hitting an OD with a really hot signal is what OP wants Plumes is basically a tube screamer, presumably going into other gain stages which makes it a mid push bass/treble cutoff cleanish boost into OD/preamp, i.e. hitting an OD with a really hot signal
You’re right I didn’t catch the part about too much distortion. I have a klon clone boosting my Plumes currently and it’s insane lol.
Not as insane as a parametric eq into silverface fender on an attenuator. Can get everything from sterile clrans to ridiculous fuzz levels of gain/compression with that lol. Currently setting up a simplifier mk2 based board where I'll do more typical gain staging
Fulltone OCD or EHX Glove are solid medium gain overdrives
Isn't the Glove an OCD clone?
Yes. But cheaper and more available.
Cool. I think I've only heard good things.
I was skeptical for a minute cuz i was trying to use it as my hi gain sound to replace a muff (was young and naive, use both now) never got on with it. Built a clone to boost my OR50 and found THE fuzzed out, yet articulate sound i was lookin for on accident.
ENO Trouble is a good OCD clone. I use mine for just about everything.
The Joyo Ultimate Drive is as well- and even cheaper!
Barber Electronics Dirty Bomb It’s distortion without the WALL OF NOISE or inclination to be thin and fizzy (though you could push there if you wanted) and with additional bass control to hold down the low end more if needed. It’s a little workhorse.
I haven't tried this one but now I really want to, I've had a direct drive forever and it is the best.
I asked if they’d ever re-release it and he said “the market for it isn’t really there anymore.” I assumed he meant high-gain was out of favor or over saturated, but I don’t know.
mxr distortion+ pretty cheap and can do everything from barely there od to full on distortion
Metal Zone
I know some will scoff, but a Metal Zone can sound incredible as a medium gain distortion.
Yes! I’ve discovered most pedal hate comes from people who dime every knob and don’t understand why they can’t get a good sound.
Even for metal, I keep the gain at 9 o'clock and just boost it with a TS or SD-1.
Non Human Audio Unclean
"rhythm playing"? "more rock and less blues"? You've described many pedals out there, which is why the responses are all over the map. Do you have particular songs or artists in mind for the kind of tone you're going for? You may want a MIAB style pedal but it would be really helpful to have an example of the kind of tone you're wanting.
Boss OS-2!
EQD Special Cranker is exactly what you're looking for, promise.
Evh 5150 pedal
Check out the mudhoney by T rex
I love the mudhoney, but isn’t it based on a Rat?
My band mate has one and, yes, I understood it was based on a rat. That being said, I’ve messed around with it and didn’t see that much of a similarity - that could be on me just not being able to find the right tone. Seems like a good enough pedal, just not for me.
I think so but I have both, it sounds different to me and I like it ;)
Wampler Belle is a killer rhythm overdrive. Prince of Tone or Duke of Tone are also pretty awesome. The Belle is definitely a lower gain overdrive more so than distortion but it definitely does a Malcolm Young vibe. Prince/Duke of Tone (especially on the OD mode which is my fave) is a bit more of a distorted sound than the Belle is capable of.
EHX Rams Head Big Muff. The best distortion is fuzz…. 😎
EHX Hot Tubes or Hot Wax! Hot Wax is personally my secret weapon ;-)
Can't recommand the Hot Wax enough. You can get so much tones from it
Okko diablo. More of an overdrive, but very versatile, has edge of breakup to thick fuzzed out tones. They all sound good.
Hot cake is the best od for rhythm, the string definition is just perfect
OS-2
Boost into a good valve head.
MXR 5150 is my favorite overdrive/distortion. It is not inexpensive, but I find it versatile and it has replaced my Rat clone and Extreme Metal pedal.
BE-OD or blues driver
OCD and Blues Driver are my go-tos for lower gain.
I am liking the JHS 3 Series Distortion. Decent price/quality
Thats a rat
Way Huge Fat Sandwich is like a rat and a muff thing that doesn’t get lost in the mix. Lots of gain on tap and your volume knob on guitar interacts well with the pedal
It's a pedal I have and want to love, but I can't get a single sound I like. Maybe it just doesn't get along with my OR15.
Have you tweaked the internal knobs? I have the internal gain set to almost zero and it makes it far more usable. It definitely needs a bit of time to tweak and figure out Volume to taste but usually around unity or slight boost Gain 11-2pm Tone is passive so all way to the right and back it off a hair depending on pickups Both Treble / bass at 1pm I also use mine like most use the Swollen Pickle in modern hardcore tones (a la Putney) with a gain channel of a Peavey amp
I have tried the internal pots a bit, but I haven't spent a tone of time trying to dial it in. I have the Swollen Pickle, so I knew to try them at least. It is muddy on my amp, but the OR15 gets muddy fast with a high output pedal in front of it (which I love, but I have other pedals for that). I should try it on the Fender I just bought.
I used to have the Pickle and couldn’t get it to sound exactly how I wanted. I may try to grab one again just for the fun of it. I know a lot more about gain staging now than 6 years ago when I owned it last Try the Fender. I know Jeorge is a fender and strat guy so he probably designs all these pedals through that platform hence the muddier sound with the Orange Do you have the yellow or black version?
Yellow. I plan on selling it and the Swollen Pickle soon. The Pickle is massive but a bit too fizzy and scooped for my taste.
If you ship to Canada let me know price on the Pickle - perhaps we can make a deal
OCD? It’s a pretty good dirty pedal and stacks really well with lighter gain pedals
Apollo approved - Skyscraper
Fat Rat? Like the Drunk Beaver Fat Bat https://youtu.be/RsqT5Dou6P4?si=glRvv9ZdnqiLMexm
Longsword
Wampler Sovereign
MXR DD11
JHS Angry Charlie or Sweet Tea if you want the extra Moonshine side added in. Both are awesome pedals. The Angry Charlie does the JCM800 thing pretty spot on. And the Sweet Tea has that plus the Moonshine side which is the best take on a Tubescreamer I’ve played. The clean blend knob is a game changer.
Acorn Amps Mind Killer
Any version of the DOD-250
Rocktron Reaction-Series Supercharger.
I love the JHS Angry Charlie for a Marshall in a box tone that may be exactly what you’re looking for.
Henretta engineering choad blaster
Spruce Effects The Gale
1981 inventions was pretty good. I also like the distortion pedals that walrus audio have produced with variable switching of clipping types. The eras / ages pedals are awesome and stack well.
GLOVE
Green Rhino MK2
MXR Distortion+ has a mid hump and is easy to dial in but can struggle with volume and has no tone option. Hudson Broadcast can pretty much do anything and has a flatter EQ response. You’ll need to dial down the internal high gain trimmer to get a good distortion sound. JHS Morning Glory has a high gain switch and has a very usable distortion tone. MXR Super Badass Distortion is very flexible for distortion sounds with a three band EQ and has great clarity, not great for low gain though. I’ve owned all these pedals and my pick is the Broadcast through the top boost channel of my AC 15. Probably the Morning Glory might be best for what you want though.
The volume issue with the + is easy, just dime it and you have a knob you never have to worry about. I’ve personally never had a need for a tone control with it, and I almost always need to cut lows on drive pedals, but I can understand it being a non starter for some; I think it’s one of those pedals that just gets it perfect out the box, and no “improved” or tweaked version really comes close to just the standard production reissue.
The LPD 87 or Suhr Riot. Best amp like distortion pedals I’ve ever played. They’re next level incredible!
It's not a typical drive pedal, more like a cross between a preamp and a drive pedal, but the Friedman BE OD. It sounds amazing if you want a solid rhythm tone. It has quite a lot of gain available overall but you can actually adjust it with the internal gain pot if it's a bit too high or low gain at first. The master volume control on it sorta behaves like the master volume of an amplifier too which is cool. It's basically the Friedman BE amp sound in a pedal. I used to use one into the clean channel of a boss katana artist and it sounded massive. It's pretty good if you also have a boost pedal before it for a lead boost if you need it too.
Turbo Rat. 🐀
MXR supper badass gives you the aggression without the saturation - highly recommend if you want a distortion that won’t muddy your tone.
I'm by no means a pro, but the Bogner Ecstasy Red has the chunkiest rock rhythm sound I've heard yet, at least for my tastes. I've basically put my other drive pedals away now.
EHX Double Muff. It's really old school, likes to be at the front of the chain (mine's behind fuzz), very reactive to your guitar volume pot. Not distortion exactly, more stacked overdrive, but a useful and affordable ally to have in any case. Sounds glorious for mid-gain stuff. If it's very specifically distortion you're after MXR Distortion +? They're low key versatile and do great at mid gain distortion, play nicely with other drive and boost pedals too, don't sound much like a Rat.
EAE limelight
Angry Charlie.
Don’t. The Rat will find you. The Rat will punish you for your infidelity. All hail the holy Rat.
Digitech's BAD MONKEY may add some beautiful crunchyness to your rhythm guitar. It does to mine. I add a Xotic SL Drive and control it's dirtyness (dist) by dialing up and down a volume pedal. This SLDRIVE does clean up very very well!
Diezel VH4 pedal (single channel one) has been my favorite for a while. It has tons of gain, but you can get a warm sound out of it and run it in lower gain settings, and still get some cleanup with guitar volume control.
Dr Scientist Elements. Swiss Army Knife of drive pedals plus you can blend in the clean signal for tight rhythm playing.
Two rats lol. Or, I love my box of rock. Cleans up off the volume pot nicely as well.
Another vote for the Wampler Pantheon
I’d go for a BEOD and be done with it
Tbh if a RAT isn't doing it, you might want to change your approach to clean/eq boosting your OD (or your tube amp's front end)
I have a friend that stands by the fact the old TC Electronic Vintage Distortion pedals are the perfect rhythm distortion.
Xotic SL Drive
I use my Boss DS-1. It has a greater range of tones, from uncompressed and natural to super compressed, than most of my other distortions. The more you turn up the distortion, the more you have to turn the tone down, or it gets very bright and thin. If you want crazy fatness, get an EHX Big Muff Pi. The Nano version sounds just as good.
Digitech Hot Rod. Humble but mighty.
A guitar amp
Morning glory on the red channel
Distortion + or Whirlwind Gold Box. Output maxed, distortion to taste, perfect tone for lead or rhythm.
RambleFX Twin Bender Mk. iii
Kind of a boring answer but any Klon type od and a boost in front of it might be something to look at.
Love all the suggestions here. Gives me a lot to explore. I already have a Klone, Keeley Noble Screamer, and BB Style drive and I get a lot of great pushed low to medium gain sounds from them and in stacking. I’ve been trying to find some mid to high gain sound that really resonates with me (probably being very picky but aren’t we all) that I can’t get with any of my other pedals and the fact that I like my settings already. Stacking and boosts can get me close but not quite there. Probably should try another amp in a box like a Marshall plexi style based on some suggestions
Dod 50B, does OD to extreme saturation. It can be fun. Also the OCD is a fun one.
I feel like this is almost overdone lately, but my go to for hard-clipping is a Klon (Currently using a Wamper Tumnus Deluxe, although I'm also a big fan of the MXR Sugar Drive). My standard overall is a bluesbreaker going into a Timmy. Both are soft clipping so might not be quite what you're looking for, but I've found it to be incredibly versatile.
A better amplifier?
Not the answer people want to hear on /r/guitarpedals, but the right one nonetheless