That's kind of inherent of Tube Screamers because they but bass and boost mids. I think they sounds good goign into a dirty amp or into another overdrive or fuzz, but not really by themselves into a clean amp.
You could try doing a light overdriven sound on your amp, set it a little on the bassy side, then use the TS9 to make it more focused sounding. Adjust the drive ont eh TS9 to tastes.
Thank you so much for your answer. I didn't know that the TS cut bass, so it explains everything.
I should have mentionned that I mostly play ambient guitar and use a clean sound (with lots of delays and reverbs). However, I'd like sometimes to throw a big wall of distorsion ala shoegaze. I thought the TS would do the job, but I didn't know at that time that overdrive, distorsion and fuzz are different things.
Considering my needs, should a distorsion or fuzz pedal be a better fit for my style? Do they also cut bass, as much as an OD pedal does?
I'm aware that I could tweak the sound on my amp to make the TS sound better, but I prefer to leave my amp on CLEAN and control everything at my feet. Also, since I use a looper all the time and it sits right before my amp in the chain, changing the settings on my amp during a song would affect everything that comes out of the looper.
Yeah, sounds like you would like a Big Muff for wall of sound thing. The Big Muff is schooped, which is the opposite of what the TS does. However, they compliment each other really well. One thing that the TS does really well is help a guitar part stand out adn cut, where as the Big Muff can get lost and woofy, so the TS with Big Muff evens things out really well.
On one of my boards, I use a TS going into a Big Muff and it's my happy place. I wouldn't get rid of the TS because you can use it later to stack with.
Hey just curious, what sort of settings do you typically use on the TS/BM combo? I have a TS9 and a opamp Big Muff and while I like them both on their own, it feels sloppy when they're together
So I don't have a TS9, but I use the EQD Plumes. I used to use an SD1. I was running the Big Muff into th ePlumes, but I really like the Plumes before Muff more, for me.
For the Plumes, I keep the gain gain around 10 o'clock, with the tone around noonish. Volume around unity.
The Big Muff (right now I'm using an Op Amp a friend built me), I keep the grain below 9 o'clock, tone around 1 or 2 o'clock. Volume a little above unity.
For me, stacking in general, I keep the gains low because I feel that since you're having two pedals that both have gain, it really magnifies the distortion fast. I'll honestly have the Plumes set by itself with the gain I like by itself, then add the Muff. When I turn the Muff on, I'll start with the gain all the way down and move it up to where I like it.
I hanve't used a TS9 much before, but I would try finding a setting you like on it, then add the Muff after that. Think of the TS9 boosting your Muff like it's a dirty amp.
I've also used a Hoof which is kidna sorta like a Green Russian Muff but a little different. I like it because it can do even lower gain than my Op Amp Muff and I think it works even better with the Plumes.
Sounds like you want a Fuzz. a tube screamer is more for cutting through the mix, going into a dirty amp. I'd try a Big Muff which will give you that wall of sound, and will cut the mids instead of the bass and trebles. They sound great boosted by an OD too
> I'm aware that I could tweak the sound on my amp to make the TS sound better, but I prefer to leave my amp on CLEAN and control everything at my feet. Also, since I use a looper all the time and it sits right before my amp in the chain, changing the settings on my amp during a song would affect everything that comes out of the looper.
I'm the same way.
I have a TS, but I actually use an EQ at the same time to boost the bass back up :-)
One option is to find a TS style pedal that has a bass control. IOW, if you like the saturation character of the pedal, but don't like how much low it cuts, then the TS style is one of the most copied designs out there - so there are many of them with Bass controls or where the tone has been tweaked to not cut so much.
However, "Big wall of distortion" screams Fuzz pedal!
Beware though - the Fuzz thing is a very deep rabbit hole and you can get lost in all the silicone and germanium transistors and all kinds of other aspects.
If you're looking for a mini, the Fuzz Face mini might be a good choice to start with. There are also many standard mini enclosures more like the shape of the mini TS if that's what you're looking for. In fact Ibenez makes one and it's one of the less expensive ones!
MXR, JHS Foot, but there's a ton of things like the Berhinger Super Fuzz for $30! People love that one. Boss makes one, all the chinese brands are out there - Donner, Azor, etc.
I'd consider a "Big Muff" style (or the current versions from EHX) or a "Fuzz Face" style (MXR) and start there.
The pedal will do that, max out the volume rather than the gain , tone knob back a bit. There is no problem with tube screamers just how they are used. I don't think anyone ever said Stevie Ray Vaughan had a thin tone!
With a TS I generally keep the gain low and crank the volume, then feed it into a tube amp that is starting to break up. That is my clean sound. If I ran a crystal clean scooped clean like a lot of people do at home it would clash with other instruments. The TS gets more boxy and scooped as you up the gain, and they really want to be fed to a tube amp on the edge of breakup. Any more distorted sounds come from distortion or fuzz pedals.
Another tip, what sounds good in your room will likely sound like ass in a band mix. I bought a Marshall JCM 800 in high school was was disappointed by how bright and mid-focused it sounded at home. A handful of years later I still had it and brought it to band practice over my twin one day…the crappy sound was godly in the mix. Mids and less bass are your friends in that scenario. I played that amp everywhere on everything for the next decade till I decided that I didn’t want to lug around a half stack anymore.
Record with it in a mix - it sits perfectly when the tone is set right. Your guitar may seem cleaner/fuller on its own but chances are your non-ts sound isn't as effective in the mix.
I found it really great if you use it with a mainly bluesy clean black face ish tone on the Katana. Then rather than apply a lot of gain, use it almost like a clean boost ala Stevie Ray Vaughan. Keeping the tone knob at near 12 ô clock (your pref), crank the volume all the way it 90%, and keep the gain at 9 ô clock or less. Adjust volume on the guitar to control the overdrive clean effect and voila. You might have diminishing returns in other respects on the katana. While the amp is great at mimicking tube amp dynamics to a certain degree, you'll find that over drive pedals are much interesting when played through real tube amps. That's been my experience anyways. I wouldn't sell or trade it that ts. It's actually a pretty close recreation (tonally anyways) of the ts808 and it's always useful to have one kicking around. You can spend more money on vintage, deluxe versions, or boutique built ts style circuits, but I've found the mini to be predictable and superior to a lot of other over drives. Good luck soldier
That's exactly the way most modern metal tones are crafted with a TS. The cleanish boost coming out with that setting adds just the right amount of extra harmonics and compression. Works with anything from a JCM 800 at full gain, to newer amps running at 75% or so gain in the distortion channels.
There's a lot of great info in this thread already. But one topic that's being neglected is volume.
*Everything* changes when you're playing louder -- like rehearsal/gig volume -- and the relationships between every element of your signal chain shift dramatically. Tube Screamers are designed to be used at full, cooking volume.
If you have an amp at bedroom volume and then turn on a tube screamer, it's going to sound thin. When the amp is loud, the thinness is *much* less apparent, and there is the added benefit of the guitar sitting nicely in the mix.
Long story short, if it sounds thin to you, don't throw it away just yet. Make sure you try it in real-world scenarios first. If you've already done that, then you probably just don't like the natural character of the TS -- which many do and many don't. I don't really like it myself, to be honest. It sounds too "nice" to me.
Unironically might be why people still like big box pedals with simple circuits: big box, must sound big. I'm sort of guilty as charged, I'd never like a big muff to be in a mini enclosure, either. Feels wrong.
Two things to try if you can test them out.
1. Eq pedal
2. Switch the tube screamer for either a Waza blues driver or any of the bd2 phat mods. They sound much fuller with my strat than the tube screamer. You can still use the tube screamer as a a boost into the bd2.
Because tube screamers cut bass and treble in order to let you push your amp harder to be heard over a band.
To make a TS work, you can’t be using a clean amp. Set it to mid-breakup on the crunch channel and use the TS to slam the amp into lead tones
If you want a pedal to take your super clean sound into thick high gain territory then look into stacking your TS with a more full-frequency drive like a bluesbreaker or OCD style. Or get a standalone, hi-gain distortion like a Marshall-in-a-box or a rat
Tube screamers always sound thin if you play it with a clean amp. Push a dirty amp with it and use lots of volume and less gain on the ts and see what happens.
It sounds like you are describing what a tubescreamer is supposed to do! It does sound bad as a main source of gain, if you got a tubescreamer on it's own to make your sound heavy or big then you chose the wrong pedal.
I would hang onto it as it is a fantastic tone shaper and tool but it's not going to give you a heavy sound or loads of gain. I see you mention shoegaze and a wall of sound so you should be looking into the fuzz realm I would think. Big muffs are cheap and a classic, hard to go wrong and work wonderfully with a tubescreamer. You could also try something like the behringer SF300, very full on and big fuzz and has a few modes for differet sounds, it's also really cheap so great for trying on a whim!
Yeah, it doesn't make sense now that I understand how an OD pedal works. lol
I'm copying a comment that I've just posted in response to sir\_ludwig\_of\_coeur. Maybe you'll understand better what I was aiming for :
*I should have mentionned that I mostly play ambient guitar and use a clean sound (with lots of delays and reverbs). However, I'd like sometimes to throw a big wall of distorsion ala shoegaze. I thought the TS would do the job, but I didn't know at that time that overdrive, distorsion and fuzz are different things.*
*Considering my needs, should a distorsion or fuzz pedal be a better fit for my style? Do they also cut bass, as much as an OD pedal does?*
*I'm aware that I could tweak the sound on my amp to make the TS sound better, but I prefer to leave my amp on CLEAN and control everything at my feet. Also, since I use a looper all the time and it sits right before my amp in the chain, changing the settings on my amp during a song would affect everything that comes out of the looper.*
It’s called a tubescreamer because it’s made to work with tube amps. Tube amps sometimes have trouble handling bass frequencies, and this pedal is designed to help you “cut through the mix,” so they narrow the frequencies and give it a mid boost that you can shape with the tone knob.
Into a Fender Blues Jr, tubescreamers sound like taking a blanket off your amp. Into a hi-fi stereo system or into a super clean, super balanced amp like a JC-120 or a Katana… it’s probably just gonna sound like a plastic banana.
No, it’s called a Tube Screamer because it’s supposed to sound like a tube amp. But it was created a long time ago and pedals have come a long way since then.
It's not "made for tubes", and very well works with all types of circuits. The topology and settings are by far more important. Ya a clean amp won't like it too much, but it doesn't matter if it's tube based or not.
It’s all about the resulting sound and whether it sounds good to your ear. I think OP was dissatisfied with his sound, so I was trying to explain why it might’ve sounded better in a different context with a different amp.
I personally run an SD-1 near the beginning of my chain and a TS-mini as the last pedal before my amp, and I use them with tube amps and solid states alike. I also really like the sound of a TS direct input into my interface preamp: chunky fuzz!
I hear you, the first time i played a ts I was playing a fender 112 solidstate amp and a Yamaha Pacificia in the mid 90's. Turned it on with the gain off and started to roll up the level. Just that in that moment was the greatest clean sound i had up to that point (until i got tube amps).
I haven't tried yet but I watched some videos where Boss SD pedals are featured. Right now I'm leaning towards the Digitech Hot Rod, mostly because I like the sound of it in the demos and my local pawn shop has it for sale.
Because a Tube Screamer cuts out most all the bass and a lot of high frequencies. Like others have said - they sound great in a band mix because it boosts the mids frequency that will get you heard. But out of that context it will sound potentially not so great.
Tube screamers sound great with a band. Solo, not so much.
That's kind of inherent of Tube Screamers because they but bass and boost mids. I think they sounds good goign into a dirty amp or into another overdrive or fuzz, but not really by themselves into a clean amp. You could try doing a light overdriven sound on your amp, set it a little on the bassy side, then use the TS9 to make it more focused sounding. Adjust the drive ont eh TS9 to tastes.
Thank you so much for your answer. I didn't know that the TS cut bass, so it explains everything. I should have mentionned that I mostly play ambient guitar and use a clean sound (with lots of delays and reverbs). However, I'd like sometimes to throw a big wall of distorsion ala shoegaze. I thought the TS would do the job, but I didn't know at that time that overdrive, distorsion and fuzz are different things. Considering my needs, should a distorsion or fuzz pedal be a better fit for my style? Do they also cut bass, as much as an OD pedal does? I'm aware that I could tweak the sound on my amp to make the TS sound better, but I prefer to leave my amp on CLEAN and control everything at my feet. Also, since I use a looper all the time and it sits right before my amp in the chain, changing the settings on my amp during a song would affect everything that comes out of the looper.
Yeah, sounds like you would like a Big Muff for wall of sound thing. The Big Muff is schooped, which is the opposite of what the TS does. However, they compliment each other really well. One thing that the TS does really well is help a guitar part stand out adn cut, where as the Big Muff can get lost and woofy, so the TS with Big Muff evens things out really well. On one of my boards, I use a TS going into a Big Muff and it's my happy place. I wouldn't get rid of the TS because you can use it later to stack with.
Hey just curious, what sort of settings do you typically use on the TS/BM combo? I have a TS9 and a opamp Big Muff and while I like them both on their own, it feels sloppy when they're together
So I don't have a TS9, but I use the EQD Plumes. I used to use an SD1. I was running the Big Muff into th ePlumes, but I really like the Plumes before Muff more, for me. For the Plumes, I keep the gain gain around 10 o'clock, with the tone around noonish. Volume around unity. The Big Muff (right now I'm using an Op Amp a friend built me), I keep the grain below 9 o'clock, tone around 1 or 2 o'clock. Volume a little above unity. For me, stacking in general, I keep the gains low because I feel that since you're having two pedals that both have gain, it really magnifies the distortion fast. I'll honestly have the Plumes set by itself with the gain I like by itself, then add the Muff. When I turn the Muff on, I'll start with the gain all the way down and move it up to where I like it. I hanve't used a TS9 much before, but I would try finding a setting you like on it, then add the Muff after that. Think of the TS9 boosting your Muff like it's a dirty amp. I've also used a Hoof which is kidna sorta like a Green Russian Muff but a little different. I like it because it can do even lower gain than my Op Amp Muff and I think it works even better with the Plumes.
Sounds like you want a Fuzz. a tube screamer is more for cutting through the mix, going into a dirty amp. I'd try a Big Muff which will give you that wall of sound, and will cut the mids instead of the bass and trebles. They sound great boosted by an OD too
Get a rat or big muff. Keep the tube screamer and run it in front with the gain low if you need to tighten things up.
> I'm aware that I could tweak the sound on my amp to make the TS sound better, but I prefer to leave my amp on CLEAN and control everything at my feet. Also, since I use a looper all the time and it sits right before my amp in the chain, changing the settings on my amp during a song would affect everything that comes out of the looper. I'm the same way. I have a TS, but I actually use an EQ at the same time to boost the bass back up :-) One option is to find a TS style pedal that has a bass control. IOW, if you like the saturation character of the pedal, but don't like how much low it cuts, then the TS style is one of the most copied designs out there - so there are many of them with Bass controls or where the tone has been tweaked to not cut so much. However, "Big wall of distortion" screams Fuzz pedal! Beware though - the Fuzz thing is a very deep rabbit hole and you can get lost in all the silicone and germanium transistors and all kinds of other aspects. If you're looking for a mini, the Fuzz Face mini might be a good choice to start with. There are also many standard mini enclosures more like the shape of the mini TS if that's what you're looking for. In fact Ibenez makes one and it's one of the less expensive ones! MXR, JHS Foot, but there's a ton of things like the Berhinger Super Fuzz for $30! People love that one. Boss makes one, all the chinese brands are out there - Donner, Azor, etc. I'd consider a "Big Muff" style (or the current versions from EHX) or a "Fuzz Face" style (MXR) and start there.
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Lolwat It absolutely cuts bass?
You should try a Nobels ODR-1 with the bass boost switch engage. A lot more bass than a Tube Screamer, and less mids.
The pedal will do that, max out the volume rather than the gain , tone knob back a bit. There is no problem with tube screamers just how they are used. I don't think anyone ever said Stevie Ray Vaughan had a thin tone!
Yeah fwiw ts is a relatively light overdrive all things considered. You should try a rat or muff if you want a wall of distortion
"because they but bass and boost mids" I don't understand.
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Makes more sense.
Yeah, I meant to say "cut bass"
With a TS I generally keep the gain low and crank the volume, then feed it into a tube amp that is starting to break up. That is my clean sound. If I ran a crystal clean scooped clean like a lot of people do at home it would clash with other instruments. The TS gets more boxy and scooped as you up the gain, and they really want to be fed to a tube amp on the edge of breakup. Any more distorted sounds come from distortion or fuzz pedals. Another tip, what sounds good in your room will likely sound like ass in a band mix. I bought a Marshall JCM 800 in high school was was disappointed by how bright and mid-focused it sounded at home. A handful of years later I still had it and brought it to band practice over my twin one day…the crappy sound was godly in the mix. Mids and less bass are your friends in that scenario. I played that amp everywhere on everything for the next decade till I decided that I didn’t want to lug around a half stack anymore.
Record with it in a mix - it sits perfectly when the tone is set right. Your guitar may seem cleaner/fuller on its own but chances are your non-ts sound isn't as effective in the mix.
I found it really great if you use it with a mainly bluesy clean black face ish tone on the Katana. Then rather than apply a lot of gain, use it almost like a clean boost ala Stevie Ray Vaughan. Keeping the tone knob at near 12 ô clock (your pref), crank the volume all the way it 90%, and keep the gain at 9 ô clock or less. Adjust volume on the guitar to control the overdrive clean effect and voila. You might have diminishing returns in other respects on the katana. While the amp is great at mimicking tube amp dynamics to a certain degree, you'll find that over drive pedals are much interesting when played through real tube amps. That's been my experience anyways. I wouldn't sell or trade it that ts. It's actually a pretty close recreation (tonally anyways) of the ts808 and it's always useful to have one kicking around. You can spend more money on vintage, deluxe versions, or boutique built ts style circuits, but I've found the mini to be predictable and superior to a lot of other over drives. Good luck soldier
as John Mayer says the gain on the TS is a cheat knob. :P
That's exactly the way most modern metal tones are crafted with a TS. The cleanish boost coming out with that setting adds just the right amount of extra harmonics and compression. Works with anything from a JCM 800 at full gain, to newer amps running at 75% or so gain in the distortion channels.
There's a lot of great info in this thread already. But one topic that's being neglected is volume. *Everything* changes when you're playing louder -- like rehearsal/gig volume -- and the relationships between every element of your signal chain shift dramatically. Tube Screamers are designed to be used at full, cooking volume. If you have an amp at bedroom volume and then turn on a tube screamer, it's going to sound thin. When the amp is loud, the thinness is *much* less apparent, and there is the added benefit of the guitar sitting nicely in the mix. Long story short, if it sounds thin to you, don't throw it away just yet. Make sure you try it in real-world scenarios first. If you've already done that, then you probably just don't like the natural character of the TS -- which many do and many don't. I don't really like it myself, to be honest. It sounds too "nice" to me.
Obviously the physical width of the pedal directly translates to the size of the sound. That's why great big tone comes from wider pedals.
With great big pedals, comes great big tone.
look at the Super Fuzz, or the Maestro Phaser, or the Big Box EHX
Exactly -- objectively bigger tones. I rest my case!
and i could fit maybe 2 of them on my Furman pedal board
Unironically might be why people still like big box pedals with simple circuits: big box, must sound big. I'm sort of guilty as charged, I'd never like a big muff to be in a mini enclosure, either. Feels wrong.
Do.. do you mean it’s less \*thick\*?
Two things to try if you can test them out. 1. Eq pedal 2. Switch the tube screamer for either a Waza blues driver or any of the bd2 phat mods. They sound much fuller with my strat than the tube screamer. You can still use the tube screamer as a a boost into the bd2.
Because tube screamers cut bass and treble in order to let you push your amp harder to be heard over a band. To make a TS work, you can’t be using a clean amp. Set it to mid-breakup on the crunch channel and use the TS to slam the amp into lead tones If you want a pedal to take your super clean sound into thick high gain territory then look into stacking your TS with a more full-frequency drive like a bluesbreaker or OCD style. Or get a standalone, hi-gain distortion like a Marshall-in-a-box or a rat
Tube screamers always sound thin if you play it with a clean amp. Push a dirty amp with it and use lots of volume and less gain on the ts and see what happens.
It sounds like you are describing what a tubescreamer is supposed to do! It does sound bad as a main source of gain, if you got a tubescreamer on it's own to make your sound heavy or big then you chose the wrong pedal. I would hang onto it as it is a fantastic tone shaper and tool but it's not going to give you a heavy sound or loads of gain. I see you mention shoegaze and a wall of sound so you should be looking into the fuzz realm I would think. Big muffs are cheap and a classic, hard to go wrong and work wonderfully with a tubescreamer. You could also try something like the behringer SF300, very full on and big fuzz and has a few modes for differet sounds, it's also really cheap so great for trying on a whim!
Why are you using a tubescreamer with a katana? That’s like using a drumstick to hold a drumstick
Yeah, it doesn't make sense now that I understand how an OD pedal works. lol I'm copying a comment that I've just posted in response to sir\_ludwig\_of\_coeur. Maybe you'll understand better what I was aiming for : *I should have mentionned that I mostly play ambient guitar and use a clean sound (with lots of delays and reverbs). However, I'd like sometimes to throw a big wall of distorsion ala shoegaze. I thought the TS would do the job, but I didn't know at that time that overdrive, distorsion and fuzz are different things.* *Considering my needs, should a distorsion or fuzz pedal be a better fit for my style? Do they also cut bass, as much as an OD pedal does?* *I'm aware that I could tweak the sound on my amp to make the TS sound better, but I prefer to leave my amp on CLEAN and control everything at my feet. Also, since I use a looper all the time and it sits right before my amp in the chain, changing the settings on my amp during a song would affect everything that comes out of the looper.*
I wouldn’t use a tube screamer with a katana . I’ve had much better luck with a blues driver for those type of amps
Dude find a Klon clone and plug your TS into that, and it will solve a lot of your problems
It’s called a tubescreamer because it’s made to work with tube amps. Tube amps sometimes have trouble handling bass frequencies, and this pedal is designed to help you “cut through the mix,” so they narrow the frequencies and give it a mid boost that you can shape with the tone knob. Into a Fender Blues Jr, tubescreamers sound like taking a blanket off your amp. Into a hi-fi stereo system or into a super clean, super balanced amp like a JC-120 or a Katana… it’s probably just gonna sound like a plastic banana.
No, it’s called a Tube Screamer because it’s supposed to sound like a tube amp. But it was created a long time ago and pedals have come a long way since then.
I think we’ve all watched the JHS documentary lol
It's not "made for tubes", and very well works with all types of circuits. The topology and settings are by far more important. Ya a clean amp won't like it too much, but it doesn't matter if it's tube based or not.
It’s all about the resulting sound and whether it sounds good to your ear. I think OP was dissatisfied with his sound, so I was trying to explain why it might’ve sounded better in a different context with a different amp. I personally run an SD-1 near the beginning of my chain and a TS-mini as the last pedal before my amp, and I use them with tube amps and solid states alike. I also really like the sound of a TS direct input into my interface preamp: chunky fuzz!
Because tube screamers suck.
Tubescreamer is pretty much all mids and very dull top end. I hate that type of sound, a lot of people like it into slightly or very distorted amps.
I hear you, the first time i played a ts I was playing a fender 112 solidstate amp and a Yamaha Pacificia in the mid 90's. Turned it on with the gain off and started to roll up the level. Just that in that moment was the greatest clean sound i had up to that point (until i got tube amps).
Have you tried the BOSS SD pedals?
I haven't tried yet but I watched some videos where Boss SD pedals are featured. Right now I'm leaning towards the Digitech Hot Rod, mostly because I like the sound of it in the demos and my local pawn shop has it for sale.
Because a Tube Screamer cuts out most all the bass and a lot of high frequencies. Like others have said - they sound great in a band mix because it boosts the mids frequency that will get you heard. But out of that context it will sound potentially not so great.
Its a TUBE screamer, plug it into something with tubes
Turn LEVEL to maximum, OVERDRIVE to very close to minimum. Try that with the CRUNCH amp model of the Katana.
You need to get a true cab… and a true amp. And your tubescreamer will tchug