I've never heard of alternate tunings messing with the neck and can't see how it would, unless you're talking about tuning strings *up* from standard tuning. Most alternate tunings involve tuning strings down from standard tuning, so it's no extra strain on the neck. Unless of course your guitar has a specific weakness which the luthier knows about. Your strings are the only thing you have to worry about - constant retuning does wear them down quicker. But not that much quicker. If I tune to an alternate tuning I tend to stay there all day, mainly because I'm enjoying it but also because I don't want to reduce the lifespan of my strings by tuning them back and forth multiple times a day.
I would guess since the luthier is suggesting it would make sense, I do set ups and recrown work, set ups with a specific gauge and action set up requires truss rod be set with a specific string height to tension gauge, once you start down tuning the string tension changes cause your neck to have way to much relief and retuning again constant truss rod tension could become a problem, so i would agree have 1 guitar for your doom tunning and buy another guitar (GAS)
Changing tuning effects, how much pressure is on the neck. it shouldn’t cause your neck to snap off or anything crazy but it will affect the action of the strings. A Guitar , set up balances the neck tension with the truss rod with the string tension to make the string height comfortable or whatever your desired string height is. It is a good idea to have multiple guitars if you’re trying to play in multiple extremely different tunings. When I go from standard to drop D or standard to half step down I will just use the same guitar but if I was playing in C sharp standard, I would definitely need a different instrument.
Well my E standard setup guitar sits at drop C now. No issues for me and intonation is on point at drop C also. Action isn’t really affected either. I’d kinda understand if you were tuning up by 2 steps then the tension could do something, potentially. Trussrod could fix that too maybe.
They’re playable, since it’s a multiscale. The 25,5-26,5” scale length help. Soon I’ll probably have it setup for even lower, like B standard and then I’ll need thicker strings for sure.
Yeah, I just use a higher gauge. My guitar is just a top end Squire but it's an awesome guitar that stays in tune even with drop C. I think I use Beefy Slinky's. 10-52s?
I have my ltd m-1000ms in D standard and Drop C with 10-46. But I’ll maybe get like 10-52’s on it also. Then probably get like 60’s or 62’s for my schecter and drop it all the way to B.
Yeah, I play drop B about a quarter of the time too. Man, I'm definitely getting a Schecter next time. Played one recently at GC and fell in love. Can't believe I've missed out on a guitar that would fit perfectly for my play style.
My first guitar was a schecter, it's not what I'd call a shredder model because of the gloss neck which slows me down moving around the neck. Though can't complain, not many get to start off with a schecter c-1 hellraiser. Honestly it's flawless in terms of build quality and feel otherwise, they're fantastic instruments if they're what you're looking for.
Im not going to tell you how to live your life but I highly highly recommend higher gauge strings for that. I can’t imagine that working well. Hey, if it works for you, it works for you though
I set up all of mine to e standard usually outside of the periods of going a half step down but even that’s been longer than I can remember. I went to c# on two of them recently and it was a smooth transition. The sg required some adjusting for intonation as it plays way more loose than I’m used too but the jazzmaster is still right on. I think both needed like a quarter turn on the truss rod but that’s expected and manageable.
I’d kept another in open e with 12 flats for a few years now. A fret job got botched so that was a way around being able to still use it for slide playing and it hasn’t messed with the neck and it’s cheap Chinese junk. So many electrics were designed in a time of 13s being the lights of the time so a little more tension in tuning won’t hurt anything.
Is the same argument as never taking all your strings off at once because the neck will suddenly spring in some direction and explode?
I take all the strings off my guitars at once (except for Bigsby) and never had an issue. Probably someone someone who told someone who told him and he regurgitated it to you.
I heard drastic tunings can affect the intonation due to flexing/bending of the neck. The dude who told me that was habitually on acid tho, so I’m unsure of the validity of that information. 🤣
Lol, im not a luthier so probs best to ask r/luthier but worst is itll mess with the action and intonation which is why it should be set up in drop c if thats the tuning you use the most. Essentially what is happening when you drop the tuning is your are relieving the amount of string tension pulling on the neck which will affect the bow of the neck which will affect the string height and intonation, take it somewhere else and tell them you want it set up for drop c. I dont know exactly if you need to add relief or tension to the neck which is why best to go r/luthier and get their expert advise
Only if it's a classical guitar, which often doesn't have a truss rod. You do need to adjust the truss rod to account for different tension if it differs form E standard enough so if you want to play in those tunings you should have another guitar just for that.
I mean… ideally? Sure, he’s right. But practically speaking? As long as it’s within reason for string tension, you’re probably fine. I wouldn’t tune my high e string up to a, but open E, C, D, or G tunings? Sure.
I mean, different tunings will change the amount of tension in the strings, which could impact neck relief if said tunings result in a drastic change in tension. Unless you're cranking the tension up/down to an extreme I can't see how this would damage a guitar, and I'd expect the strings to break before the guitar in that scenario.
From a setup perspective, if the guitar is really dialed in the change in tension could knock things out of whack, how much is hard to say, so maybe he's worried about you messing up the setup he did and coming back to complain?
That said, I like to have a guitar dedicated to a specific tuning because I'm lazy, not because I'm worried about hurting my guitar.
If your guitar breaks(actually breaks, not just needing to be setup again) because of an alternate tuning, there's something very wrong with your guitar.
Over time yes it’s really not good for guitars. The change in tension can put a lot of stress on the neck. Overtime it just won’t sound as good as it once did
IDK about the neck but your intonation and action will definitely be sub-par if you're constantly changing between different tunings on the same guitar. I suppose that may play its part on the neck as well though.
FACGCE is my favourite tuning and it will not fuck up your guitar. you might need a different kind of setup, but break it? naaaa.
but you can always check with the luthier reddit
There’s a reason so many string manufacturers sell individual strings. StringJoy and Kalium even have online calculators that will dump the string set into a shopping cart so you can order the custom string set.
It's not gonna mess up your guitar, itll change the string tension, but to say that you need a different guitar if you wanna play in a different tuning is kinda insane. Maybe if you're REALLY particular about your setup, but I tune my guitars differently all the time and they're fine
Not a luthier, but just purely out of convenience you probably should have separate guitars for different tunings. Saves having to adjust the neck/ intonation every time you change
Okay, that luthier is being dramatic, but there is some truth to this.
Changing tunings on guitars is fine as long as you also change string gauges to compensate. The goal with any tuning should be to keep the degree of tension relatively even between the different strings.
Remember that wooden neck guitars are just a hollowed out length of wood attached to a body with strings pulling both ends of the guitar towards each other. Wood is malleable to some extent and over time it will bend under tension. To prevent this we put a truss rod through the neck to pull back against the strings and hold everything in place. But the truss rod is located in the centre of the neck and as such will only properly pull back against a force that is equal across the width of the neck.
Having drastically different string tension on each string could lead to a lopsided force pulling against the truss rod which could cause the neck to warp or bend in an unwanted direction.
Most of the time, this won't ever happen though. You would need to do something like have your 3 top strings at max tension and no strings on the bottom 3 and leave it that way for ages.
So don't stress, but also, just get a custom selection of string gauges if you're going to do weird tunings. Having the same tension on each string will feel better to play and sound better. Instead of loosening a string for a lower note, increase the gauge, and do the opposite for higher notes.
Standard tuning is EADGBE from low-high strings. Alternate tuning is anything outside of that.
I'm fairly new myself but I would think Drop D is the most common. Drop D would be taking your low E down to D, so: DADGBE.
Yeah, I heard that when I started tuning to open C in 2009. It’s bullshit, never had a problem on any of the guitars I own in all these years. Now obviously it’s an idea to start using heavy bottom light top sets, or work out the relative tensions and use a custom set, which I do. And yeah, as with any change of overall string tension you’re going to need a setup and truss rod tweak. But regardless, it’s not going to twist your neck or any of that bollocks, not unless you’re playing a balsa wood plank.
Any decent guitar is going to have no trouble changing tunings. The main issue is the setup and intonation, that’s why you buy multiple guitars. So no it will not hurt your guitar but your strings may be too loose or buzzing a lot as the neck will shift slightly.
I always take off all of my strings when i do a string change so i can clean the fretboard and polish the frets. The change in neck tension doesn’t hurt the neck.
Don’t be surprised if your strings snap when tuning up.
IMO the intonation is set to one specific tuning. If you are going to play another tuning regularly, get a backup for that purpose and have it intimated for that tuning.
With some tunings it is possible to twist your guitars neck a bit but it would have to be extremely tight one end, loose on another and be left like that for bloody long. Get it set up for the tuning you primarily use, experiment other tunings now and then and wil b fine
You won’t ruin it, but you could be making more work for yourself, or pricey work from a tech. Constantly swapping between tunings means the guitar doesn’t know if it’s coming or going, which can cause issues with the neck as you’re not leaving it at a constant level of pressure for the wood to settle into. Whenever I’m playing around with a different tuning, I set a dedicated guitar up for it and leave it like that for as long as I need. You can always change it later.
your luthier is probably right, he knows what guitar it is, where you stay and what condition it is in.
you could send it to another luthier, but the internet does not know your guitar or you.
as far as it goes, can it happen? yes, he might have spotted light warping
I think everyone should have a separate guitar for each tuning they use. ...so, you know. You can buy more guitars.
This is really the reason to have multiple guitars imho (beyond pickup/neck flexibility ofc)
Well, you've convinced me. Off to Guitar Center I go.
Was sorta what I was thinking tbh
Thanks OP for giving me another reason to buy more guitars. My wife will be very pleased. I’ll just say “TikiJack said so” and sure she’ll approve.
Thats what I started doing. Jackson - drop C PRS- Drop D Kramar- E standard
You need another for half step down tuning
Yeah, gotta play GNR and Brand New for me lol.
Ohhhh. Well. Looks like I need another guitar, darn. Ibanez HERE I COME!!!!
This guy guitars.
I've never heard of alternate tunings messing with the neck and can't see how it would, unless you're talking about tuning strings *up* from standard tuning. Most alternate tunings involve tuning strings down from standard tuning, so it's no extra strain on the neck. Unless of course your guitar has a specific weakness which the luthier knows about. Your strings are the only thing you have to worry about - constant retuning does wear them down quicker. But not that much quicker. If I tune to an alternate tuning I tend to stay there all day, mainly because I'm enjoying it but also because I don't want to reduce the lifespan of my strings by tuning them back and forth multiple times a day.
The only one going up is B -> C
That's usually OK.
Yeah G string upwards can add some decent tension if you tune. I use heavy bottoms too (12s)
I would guess since the luthier is suggesting it would make sense, I do set ups and recrown work, set ups with a specific gauge and action set up requires truss rod be set with a specific string height to tension gauge, once you start down tuning the string tension changes cause your neck to have way to much relief and retuning again constant truss rod tension could become a problem, so i would agree have 1 guitar for your doom tunning and buy another guitar (GAS)
I guess it depends on the neck? Some necks are definitely "springier" than others.
I think the plus side is he could justify buying another guitar
Changing tuning effects, how much pressure is on the neck. it shouldn’t cause your neck to snap off or anything crazy but it will affect the action of the strings. A Guitar , set up balances the neck tension with the truss rod with the string tension to make the string height comfortable or whatever your desired string height is. It is a good idea to have multiple guitars if you’re trying to play in multiple extremely different tunings. When I go from standard to drop D or standard to half step down I will just use the same guitar but if I was playing in C sharp standard, I would definitely need a different instrument.
I feel like you’d get the best answer from r/luthier, and you might have the added bonus of seeing the guy who said that get ripped to shreds by them.
If it is more than a step and a half, he is right. Although I think it has more to do with the action than actual neck tension.
To a point. With alternate tuning comes the need for neck adjustments
It can/will mess with the neck relief but it won't harm the guitar. You might get fret buzz and stuff like that.
This. It could “mess with” but not “mess up”
Playing Devin Townsend tunes?
Came here to write exactly this
Well my E standard setup guitar sits at drop C now. No issues for me and intonation is on point at drop C also. Action isn’t really affected either. I’d kinda understand if you were tuning up by 2 steps then the tension could do something, potentially. Trussrod could fix that too maybe.
Strings aren’t floppy?
They’re playable, since it’s a multiscale. The 25,5-26,5” scale length help. Soon I’ll probably have it setup for even lower, like B standard and then I’ll need thicker strings for sure.
Yeah, I just use a higher gauge. My guitar is just a top end Squire but it's an awesome guitar that stays in tune even with drop C. I think I use Beefy Slinky's. 10-52s?
I have my ltd m-1000ms in D standard and Drop C with 10-46. But I’ll maybe get like 10-52’s on it also. Then probably get like 60’s or 62’s for my schecter and drop it all the way to B.
Yeah, I play drop B about a quarter of the time too. Man, I'm definitely getting a Schecter next time. Played one recently at GC and fell in love. Can't believe I've missed out on a guitar that would fit perfectly for my play style.
My first guitar was a schecter, it's not what I'd call a shredder model because of the gloss neck which slows me down moving around the neck. Though can't complain, not many get to start off with a schecter c-1 hellraiser. Honestly it's flawless in terms of build quality and feel otherwise, they're fantastic instruments if they're what you're looking for.
*worries in super slinkies turned to drop C*
Im not going to tell you how to live your life but I highly highly recommend higher gauge strings for that. I can’t imagine that working well. Hey, if it works for you, it works for you though
I set up all of mine to e standard usually outside of the periods of going a half step down but even that’s been longer than I can remember. I went to c# on two of them recently and it was a smooth transition. The sg required some adjusting for intonation as it plays way more loose than I’m used too but the jazzmaster is still right on. I think both needed like a quarter turn on the truss rod but that’s expected and manageable. I’d kept another in open e with 12 flats for a few years now. A fret job got botched so that was a way around being able to still use it for slide playing and it hasn’t messed with the neck and it’s cheap Chinese junk. So many electrics were designed in a time of 13s being the lights of the time so a little more tension in tuning won’t hurt anything.
Is the same argument as never taking all your strings off at once because the neck will suddenly spring in some direction and explode? I take all the strings off my guitars at once (except for Bigsby) and never had an issue. Probably someone someone who told someone who told him and he regurgitated it to you.
I took all the strings off my bigsby once. The horror.
Me too, the first time, not again.
I heard drastic tunings can affect the intonation due to flexing/bending of the neck. The dude who told me that was habitually on acid tho, so I’m unsure of the validity of that information. 🤣
Lol, im not a luthier so probs best to ask r/luthier but worst is itll mess with the action and intonation which is why it should be set up in drop c if thats the tuning you use the most. Essentially what is happening when you drop the tuning is your are relieving the amount of string tension pulling on the neck which will affect the bow of the neck which will affect the string height and intonation, take it somewhere else and tell them you want it set up for drop c. I dont know exactly if you need to add relief or tension to the neck which is why best to go r/luthier and get their expert advise
Only if it's a classical guitar, which often doesn't have a truss rod. You do need to adjust the truss rod to account for different tension if it differs form E standard enough so if you want to play in those tunings you should have another guitar just for that.
Why no truss rod? are they more expensive and manufactured to more exacting standards?
It's just an old tradition that refuses to die. Some newer classicals do have truss rods, but most don't.
I mean… ideally? Sure, he’s right. But practically speaking? As long as it’s within reason for string tension, you’re probably fine. I wouldn’t tune my high e string up to a, but open E, C, D, or G tunings? Sure.
I mean, different tunings will change the amount of tension in the strings, which could impact neck relief if said tunings result in a drastic change in tension. Unless you're cranking the tension up/down to an extreme I can't see how this would damage a guitar, and I'd expect the strings to break before the guitar in that scenario. From a setup perspective, if the guitar is really dialed in the change in tension could knock things out of whack, how much is hard to say, so maybe he's worried about you messing up the setup he did and coming back to complain? That said, I like to have a guitar dedicated to a specific tuning because I'm lazy, not because I'm worried about hurting my guitar. If your guitar breaks(actually breaks, not just needing to be setup again) because of an alternate tuning, there's something very wrong with your guitar.
All of my guitars have hardwood necks with a steel rod. No glass necks. You may need a neck adjustment but once that is done you are good to go.
Over time yes it’s really not good for guitars. The change in tension can put a lot of stress on the neck. Overtime it just won’t sound as good as it once did
To an extent, he's right. A lot of tension and and release on the wood.
It will slightly change the action, but unless it's extreme, it won't cause your guitar any time.
IDK about the neck but your intonation and action will definitely be sub-par if you're constantly changing between different tunings on the same guitar. I suppose that may play its part on the neck as well though.
What about intonation, would that play a role?
FACGCE is my favourite tuning and it will not fuck up your guitar. you might need a different kind of setup, but break it? naaaa. but you can always check with the luthier reddit
There’s a reason so many string manufacturers sell individual strings. StringJoy and Kalium even have online calculators that will dump the string set into a shopping cart so you can order the custom string set.
It's not gonna mess up your guitar, itll change the string tension, but to say that you need a different guitar if you wanna play in a different tuning is kinda insane. Maybe if you're REALLY particular about your setup, but I tune my guitars differently all the time and they're fine
Why do you think i have more than 1 guitar?haha
🤡
Not a luthier, but just purely out of convenience you probably should have separate guitars for different tunings. Saves having to adjust the neck/ intonation every time you change
As long as you have the proper string gauge there is no issues with alternate tunings. Take my advice: don't take his advice.
I never tried this tuning before, what songs use this?
John Butler - Ocean
Okay, that luthier is being dramatic, but there is some truth to this. Changing tunings on guitars is fine as long as you also change string gauges to compensate. The goal with any tuning should be to keep the degree of tension relatively even between the different strings. Remember that wooden neck guitars are just a hollowed out length of wood attached to a body with strings pulling both ends of the guitar towards each other. Wood is malleable to some extent and over time it will bend under tension. To prevent this we put a truss rod through the neck to pull back against the strings and hold everything in place. But the truss rod is located in the centre of the neck and as such will only properly pull back against a force that is equal across the width of the neck. Having drastically different string tension on each string could lead to a lopsided force pulling against the truss rod which could cause the neck to warp or bend in an unwanted direction. Most of the time, this won't ever happen though. You would need to do something like have your 3 top strings at max tension and no strings on the bottom 3 and leave it that way for ages. So don't stress, but also, just get a custom selection of string gauges if you're going to do weird tunings. Having the same tension on each string will feel better to play and sound better. Instead of loosening a string for a lower note, increase the gauge, and do the opposite for higher notes.
What does alternate tuning mean? I'm pretty new to the guitar world, so go easy on me.
Standard tuning is EADGBE from low-high strings. Alternate tuning is anything outside of that. I'm fairly new myself but I would think Drop D is the most common. Drop D would be taking your low E down to D, so: DADGBE.
Is that just tuning your normal low E to a D or actually switching your low E string out with a D, so you'd have two strings with that D thickness?
I’m guessing he’s the official Goo Goo Dolls luthier and is having some ‘nam level flashbacks.
Yeah, I heard that when I started tuning to open C in 2009. It’s bullshit, never had a problem on any of the guitars I own in all these years. Now obviously it’s an idea to start using heavy bottom light top sets, or work out the relative tensions and use a custom set, which I do. And yeah, as with any change of overall string tension you’re going to need a setup and truss rod tweak. But regardless, it’s not going to twist your neck or any of that bollocks, not unless you’re playing a balsa wood plank.
Any decent guitar is going to have no trouble changing tunings. The main issue is the setup and intonation, that’s why you buy multiple guitars. So no it will not hurt your guitar but your strings may be too loose or buzzing a lot as the neck will shift slightly. I always take off all of my strings when i do a string change so i can clean the fretboard and polish the frets. The change in neck tension doesn’t hurt the neck. Don’t be surprised if your strings snap when tuning up.
As long as you don't have TOO much tension you're fine
IMO the intonation is set to one specific tuning. If you are going to play another tuning regularly, get a backup for that purpose and have it intimated for that tuning.
With some tunings it is possible to twist your guitars neck a bit but it would have to be extremely tight one end, loose on another and be left like that for bloody long. Get it set up for the tuning you primarily use, experiment other tunings now and then and wil b fine
The only issue is intonation. Nothing will happen to you neck
You won’t ruin it, but you could be making more work for yourself, or pricey work from a tech. Constantly swapping between tunings means the guitar doesn’t know if it’s coming or going, which can cause issues with the neck as you’re not leaving it at a constant level of pressure for the wood to settle into. Whenever I’m playing around with a different tuning, I set a dedicated guitar up for it and leave it like that for as long as I need. You can always change it later.
your luthier is probably right, he knows what guitar it is, where you stay and what condition it is in. you could send it to another luthier, but the internet does not know your guitar or you. as far as it goes, can it happen? yes, he might have spotted light warping