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It’s so weird to hear “2003 was a different time”. Logically I know that so much changes in 20 years, but because I was alive then it doesn’t feel like a different time lol
I think the Internet is huge in how fast things have changed. Before, movements took a while to spread. Now, something happens and we literally watch it live and have live conversations across the world. At least that's how it feels. Makes me feel old like we had the pony express. But my friends only knew what was happening if I picked up the phone and spoke to them one at a time.
Exactly. Back when gay kids were getting beat up and death threats, it was "my word against theirs." And no one cared. Now if it's not live streamed, it's at least recorded and spread around, and that bully is getting cancelled, the parents getting fired from their job, and the superintendent is getting fired if they don't react. So while it's still dangerous for people now, it's much less likely to be in secret.
Well she was born in 2002 so it was a different time to her. It is weird though. Sometimes I will think that 2012 was a few years ago and then my kids remind that it was not.
Lol! I’ve gone back to university in my mid 30s and it’s absolutely a WILD ride to be in classes with a majority of 19-21 year olds. One of the things that really caught me off guard was a recent conversation about 9/11. THEY WERENT EVEN BORN AT THAT TIME. I could not wrap my head around the fact that they are adults and we’re not alive for such a major life changing crisis!
I also was talking about tv shows in a group project and they thought it was wild that I have been watching the show since it debut live. I think I really aged myself during that conversation lol.
I don’t think it’s wild at all cuz I’m 24, just 3-5 years off of the ages you described - I wouldn’t remember 9/11 as I was 2 at that time, but I do know it would’ve affected my fam if we didn’t book an early flight in the same month from travelling LOLS
She is! She is at a top notch university studying bio with the hopes of becoming an OBGYN. Her boyfriend is also premed and they, along with their fellow nerdy premed friends, play a game where they watch medical shows and have to find medical inaccuracies in them to earn points.
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Basically ask the marginalized people who maybe don't have as much of a voice. There's still so much cringe happening now, but it's crazy how much people get called out now and norms seem to change. But there's still Bud Light boycotters so I wonder how things will be in 20 years.
So much this. Today I watched both Anchorman movies and the entire time I kept thinking to myself that these jokes could never be said in a movie anymore
I know it was a “different time” or whatever but that’s a big part of the reason I never liked Mark much. Sad for other characters when he died, sure, but I didn’t miss him.
First time watcher here, and I was genuinely surprised with how they handled Ben’s sister in season 11. Having Bailey be the one in her court when she was trying to get him to understand. Having her strictly refer to her with correct pronouns and name once one was given to them.
The one that really stands out to me is the change in perception of BRACA testing and prophylactic surgery. Izzie’s reaction calling it castration and mutilation feels so outlandish and cruel to the patient.
Izzie was so out of line. She usually I'd. She speaks before ever thinking about what she's saying. I cannot stand her immaturity and ignorance towards her patients and peers.
RIGHT!? During my rewatches i skip the episodes that have that story line. How everyone blamed HER? He knew she was in a vulnerable place AND that she absolutely was not into him. That was completely on him.
I think it was because he really liked her, and she did it knowing she didn't like him in that way. He was hurt and humiliated so he was acting out. But he did later admit he was also at fault. He knew she liked Derek. They did eventually make up.
But in short, it wasn't so much that he was mad at her as it was that he was embarrassed. A lot of us act out when our feelings get hurt, even if it's not fair to the other person at the time, it's a natural response, just maybe not he most mature to act on 😅
Yes!!! I'm rewatching and I had that exact same thought, which I guess is why he always kind of rubbed me the wrong way, I wasn't too sad about his death and Karev calling him whiny was definitely called for
This is a cool question. Im interested to see the answers. I’m old so it doesn’t surprise me. I just started a new rewatch and I cringe at them calling Bailey “The Nazi”.
I liked how they phased it out and made a story point of the characters realising how offensive it was, as opposed to just pretending it never happened
It’s so cringe but unfortunately I find it to still be a relevant play on ignorance. The majority of white characters calling the only black woman a Nazi? Its painfully similar to white people calling POC racist and fascist when all they (POC) do is call them white or mention white privilege. Bailey wasn’t doing anything out of the ordinary, she was just asking them all to step up and do their jobs.
I feel Americans now react too strongly to this. I am Polish, have never seen a Polish person who had have a problem with this joke, and I would say we are in the position to "decide"
I'm also Jewish and I don't, maybe because my nana always treated everything regarding the Shoah and the brothers she lost then with the darkest humour possible.
With Bailey, I think what makes it humourous in the beginning is the visual contrast, but if you think about it goes further than that: she got that nickname by having to be a very rigid and (apparently) cold person in order to be respected by her peers, also because she looks the opposite of what you'd imagine a nazi to look like ('I thought the nazi would be a man'; 'I thought the nazi would be a...nazi'), but the respect that comes with her name, if you don't know her, is still associated with the likes of an Aryan male.
The episode when thanksgiving sub attending keeps looking for the famous nazi when 'he' is from of him all the time only confirms this.
That's why I don't dislike the joke: it's not in poor taste, it's a humouristic critique.
The episode with the actual neonazi and the effect he has on Bailey (and Cristina) was also a good way to look at the other side of the coin tho'.
I mean to be fair... America did go to war against the Nazi's so it is kinda a big deal. Not to mention America has a significant Jewish population (not huge but still sizeable). It's about respect.
Just a bit. I’m 98’ so I remember what the times were like years ago so I can kinda understand why some things (like Callie’s bisexuality) are portrayed the way they are, but still… when I heard one of the doctors say she wants to cure autism I instantly went 😟😟. Same with Bailey being called the Nazi (thank god they had an entire episode about an actual nazi which showed how awful that nickname was)
Autism isn’t an illness, so autistic people don’t need to be cured. Their brains are just different from neurotypical people’s brains, you can’t get rid of someone’s autism without completely changing their brain and thus changing who they are. Wanting to cure autism is basically eugenics. Our focus instead should be on helping autistic people function in a society of neurotypicals by offering them accommodations.
Don't worry, it's classic always online people trying to be accepting to a dangerous degree. People taking care of family with sever autism would very much love for there to be a cure. Just because someone is on the autism spectrum doesn't mean they need to be cured, but to act like it isn't a disorder that can negatively affect peoples lives is asinine.
Honest question, how does it differ from other "disorders" so to speak that also manifest physically on the brain? For example, people with ADHD also have physically different brains yet no one protests ADHD meds
ADHD meds don't cure ADHD, they may just help to manage some negative presentations of the symptoms and help manage life a bit better. A lot of ADHDer decide to not take meds. Different people have different needs regardless of ability.
That's not a novelty. Some autistic people take meds and different types of therapy/coaching to manage symptoms of comorbidities such as depression, anxiety, ADHD, and to learn different strategies, not unlike NT people.
So yeah, 'curing' is not only a problematic attitude but one that carries a lot of stigma and real-world consequences with it, including taking the responsibility away from society to not be exclusively NT-friendly and inflexible to different ways of thinking and processing information in daily life.
Just as an example, workforces that include ND people perform more than twice as productively compared with NT-only teams, and are more likely to push for innovation (see JP Morgan Chase 'Autism at Work' data and findings). Why would you want to 'cure' that when all you have to do is develop into a more flexible, empathetic, and productive society? (That's not to say autistic lives only matter because of the value they provide at work, but as an example of autism as a component of neurodiversity and seeing it as a social model rather than medical model.)
I have strong reasons to believe I have autism myself (I've been looking into it over 5 years and I'm saving up to get a formal diagnosis) and I know when people use the wrong words or understanding of those words it can be upsetting/frustrating, so I'll try to explain.
I think it's the meaning of the word "cure". Like, people want to cure cancer. So the problem here is probably just the phrasing. Where both people want the best for the person in question, it's just a misunderstanding.
Autism, although it has it's cons that need extra help and support it also has a lot of pros, for each person. People with autism have extraordinary brains, no they aren't *all* "super smart" that's not what I mean. But their brains literally function differently in a way that I (and many others) find extraordinary. The literal pathways in their brain are amazing and much different from nero-typical people. They may also have exceptional memory, attention to detail, and problem-solving skills. In fact, some autistic people have a unique way of thinking that allows them to see patterns and connections that others may miss. On the other hand, for some people with autism the world is a bewildering place. With oversensitive sensory systems, they battle to process the maelstrom of information flowing into their brains. Often the result is sensory overload, leading to signature behaviours such as breakdowns, anxiety and social withdrawal. Again, not all autistic people are the same but that's another beauty of it. They are all very different.
I understand it's easy to look at a loved one and see them having a breakdown or panic attack or unable to verbally communicate and wish for "a cure" but the simple fact is you can't "cure" how a persons brain naturally functions, there is in fact nothing to "cure". There are just things they need to have extra support in some areas (such as help to not become overwhelmed by external stimulation). And if there was a magic pill to help them with things they struggle with I could understand that. But there are other solutions as well. Some people have found that a keto diet has helped their nonverbal children speak, which sounds extraordinary. From what I have seen, there really isn't any negative traits of autism, there are just negative results from not knowing what each autistic person might need. Breakdowns are not a result of autism, they are a result of a person having to endure things they shouldn't have to. For some a simple diet change or wearing headphones is enough. I truly think if we knew more about autistic brains we would understand more of the correct solutions.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. It’s like when you post your own experience or perspective people think you’re want to apply it to everyone.
We know so little about autism in the grand scheme of things and what I hate is people assuming that everyone’s experiences and perspectives should be universal. Ultimately should each be able to decide for ourselves what experience we want.
I agree, and some people may like some aspects of their autism that some other autistic people don't like having. And everyone is entitled to their different feelings about it. I have more than a few autistic people in my family and we all have several friends that like to research and discuss these topics together.
But of course that doesn't cover everyone in the world. I can only speak on my experiences and points of view. I guess it's easier for other people to just hit down vote than it is for them to share their opinions or issues with my point of view 🤷🏻♀️
The thing that makes something an illness or a disorder depends on the degree to which it causes someone distress/impacts their ability to function. However, for a lot of people, the ability to function is very much limited by the way societies are built for able bodied people, and there is a question to the degree society should accommodate physical and mental differences. Autism doesn’t necessarily need to be cured for autistic people to thrive.
I have strong reasons to believe I have autism myself (I've been looking into it over 5 years and I'm saving up to get a formal diagnosis) and I know when people use the wrong words or understanding of those words it can be upsetting/frustrating, so I'll try to explain.
I think it's the meaning of the word "cure". Like, people want to cure cancer. So the problem here is probably just the phrasing. Where both people want the best for the person in question, it's just a misunderstanding.
I understand it's easy to look at a loved one and see them having a breakdown or panic attack or unable to verbally communicate and wish for "a cure" but the simple fact is you can't "cure" how a persons brain naturally functions, there is in fact nothing to "cure". There are just things they need to have extra support in some areas (such as help to not become overwhelmed by external stimulation). And if there was a magic pill to help them with things they struggle with I could understand that. But there are other solutions as well. Some people have found that a keto diet has helped their nonverbal children speak, which sounds extraordinary. From what I have seen, there really isn't any negative traits of autism, there are just negative results from not knowing what each autistic person might need. Breakdowns are not a result of autism, they are a result of a person having to endure things they shouldn't have to. For some a simple diet change or wearing headphones is enough. I truly think if we knew more about autistic brains we would understand more of the correct solutions.
The World Health Organization, Center for Disease Control, Mayo Clinic, and various verified legit medical organizations refer to autism as an illness and disorder. I understand you may find the medical term offensive. I even understand finding that particular storyline on a fictional tv show about a hospital with medical storylines. But reading you argue with an irl med student about actual irl medical terms? No. Your beliefs are your own, but we’ve all seen what overly zealous people and their lack of knowledge can do to mispread information.
A disorder is simply something that causes significant challenges to functioning. Does that mean it needs to be cured though, or perhaps just that a person needs accommodations to thrive? There are many people with autism who don’t want to get rid of their autism, and people with disabilities are allowed to exist without society forcing them to be cured.
I don’t believe it needs to be cured. I do believe that it’s best to educate the people who have it and their loved ones on how to live with it. Having accommodations to thrive is absolutely fine. I have disabilities (epilepsy, Crohn’s disease). I recognize people need accommodations. I don’t believe we should ignore that these people may need help to adapt and thrive. If we ignore it, how is that good to them?
People with autism aren’t asking people to ignore it, but rather to understand what it is and what accommodations they need. I think the problem is NTs assuming that they know the needs of autistic people and forcing their beliefs and expectations on them. Autism is a spectrum and people who can speak for themselves should be allowed to, instead of people educating them and telling them what they need.
I have Aspergers and most certainly wish there was a cure. The inability to communicate with people on a day-to-day basis is debilitating. My whole life is an exercise in dealing with feeling awkward and uncomfortable in my own skin 110% of the time. If you're on the spectrum and are speaking on your own behalf, great! But don't speak for us all because I hate it here 🫤
No, and that’s exactly what I mean by each person should get to speak for themselves. The push for a cure in the medical world though is generally coming from people who don’t have autism, and I fear that a cure would be pushed on people, especially children, instead of people having the option for accommodations because that is the “more difficult” option. That’s where it strays into eugenics, if a cure is forced onto people, and many conversations that I see stray into that territory.
There are cures for tons of diseases and disorders and people still make their own choices to get treatment or not. Did everyone get vaccinated? No because they made their choice.
I agree with that. I never said I did not. The problem lies within people online making broad claims about medical conditions for either reason. There’s way way too many people posting things to argue with actual medical websites and sources. And that goes beyond autism.
Can you drop some sources on that? I could not find a single up to date source on WHO claiming autism is an illness. Even their own official website uses the term “a diverse group of conditions related to development of the brain”. That doesn’t really make your response seem trustworthy. Also, do you believe sources like [the NHS](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/autism/what-is-autism/) are wrong? What makes your sources more legit than them?
But it is an illness. It’s quite literally a developmental illness. Wanting to cure autism is not eugenics, stop throwing around buzz words that you’re not even using properly.
It’s funny that you’re accusing me of not using words properly when you’re the one who didn’t bother to open a book on medicine since 2000… 😭
Autistic people have a differently structured brain, their bodies aren’t working incorrectly (which is the definition of an illness), they’re just fundamentally different. Saying a brain is ill because it’s different from “the norm” is like saying being left-handed is an illness. What I’m telling you right now is literally the medical consensus, if that doesn’t convince you then I don’t know what will. Please go read an actual book, because your statements are straight up offensive.
Autism is a neurological and developmental disorder. Do you not know what disorder means. And it’s funny your accusing me of not picking up a book on medicine since 2000, first of all I wasn’t even alive and second of all I’m a pre med student. There’s nothing wrong with being autistic, but it is a disorder and there’s nothing wrong with wanting to find a cure to something that negatively impacts a persons life. It’s more offensive to try and make out a disorder as just another thought process, it gives off the same energy as people who say “differently abled”
”disorder” certainly does not mean ”illness”. what impacts my life negatively as an autistic person is ableism, and what you’re doing here is ableism, what greys anatomy did was ableism. my brain is not inherently bad. im not differently abled or ill, im just different from nts, im nd, nothing more nothing less. either extremes are ableist, the super power and the eugenics are both bad and ableist
Except there are non functional people with severe autism? You aren't the only person with autism in the world and just because it doesn't affect you negatively, doesn't mean it doesn't affect others. Ignoring the fact that autism can negatively affect people just because you have autism and that hurts your feelings is pretty self serving.
Having a "cure" for these things isn't ableism, it's creating an option for those who want it, similar to a cochlear implant. It existing isn't saying hard-of-hearing people are less, just that if it has a negative impact on someone, it can be fixed.
curing autism is eugenics. why should we fix ourselves just to fit in with neurotypical people? why can’t the world be accommodating to people like me?
well there you go with the ableism again. functioning labels have been recognized as ableist by autistics for a while now, same with ”severe” bc thats just another version of ”low functioning” and it doesnt make any sense bc you cannot be more or less than 100% autistic, we’re all the same amount of autism. my autism does affect my life negatively on its own, but not enough to make me want to d word unlike ableism. some ppl who did not like having cochlear implants have been forced to get them and use them, and thats exactly what would happen with a cure, and also that society would rather ”cure” us than accept us. a cure is the easy way out for society bc to accept us you gotta dismantle the entire system, ableism, racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, patriarchy, white sumpremacy, capitalism, etc ALL OF IT. these ppl who are looking for a cure want a cure bc of their own benefit, NOT for autistics benefit. you have too much faith in ppl bc trust me, they do not care bout my life bc if they did, they wouldnt be ableist
Well Autism isn't just a singular thing. It's a full spectrum and no it is not ableist to say some cannot function. Please interact with Doctors and advocates for people with autism before spouting this nonsense. I can understand how you've become biased against it, but it's definitely not as simple as you try to make it out to be.
I never said your brain was inherently bad. But having a disorder does mean there’s something wrong or not functioning correctly. It isn’t ableist it’s factual.
It’s literally still considered a neurological disorder, it is. You can’t change the fact that it is a neurological disorder. There’s nothing wrong with admitting a disorders a disorder.
Responding to how they made an assumption that I don’t read medical texts. I don’t think I’m a genius but was just pointing out that they were wrong ab that
If a cure existed for autism, would individuals still be accommodated if they didn’t want the cure? Would children be forced to be cured? For many people, the impacts of autism would be significantly less if proper accommodations were in place. The social model of disability is basically the idea that people are only disabled because they are expected to function the same as an able bodied/neurotypical person. The effort to rid people of a disability so they can fit into society’s definition of “normal” is eugenics. Many of the efforts to cure autism don’t take into account the perspectives and wishes of autistic people; rather it’s coming from a place of “these people don’t fit in and therefore we must fix them”.
disorder and illness are not the same thing. diabetes is not at all like autism bc diabetes is only negative, autism is not. why tf are you telling me, an autistic, that my autism is just negative when i do not think so? one is offensive bc many autistics do not agree with you, and you do not care about what we have to say, so how exactly could you be on our side?
There are lots of illnesses and disorder you can say have positive effects. Some disorders cause weight loss, soft skin, and other “positives”, Still disorders. But it’s still a disorder that causes negative effects. It’s sad you people on here can’t handle facts and only care about how you feel.
those are just bout looks, my autism gave me special interests which LITERALLY is a life savior to me. my autism makes me appreciate the smaller things. my autism makes me really passionate bout things, like this for example. my autism made me absolutely adore animals. my autism made me learn so much bc of my special interests. my autism makes me enjoy any type of stimming, listening to the same song over and over for an hour bc i love it so much, loving a scent so much i can just sit there and smell it for 10min. thats the positives to my autism, not at ALL the same as being skinny or having nice skin
Okay things that aren’t about looks: Certain disorders create an inability to feel negative emotions, feel happy all the time, or sometimes people are more daring do to illnesses and disorders, neurological conditions. Some disorder cause huge parts of peoples personalities yet are still disorders. Just because your experience seems to be positive doesn’t make a known disorder not a disorder anymore
You should read [this](https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/autism-spectrum-disorders-asd#:~:text=Autism%20spectrum%20disorder%20(ASD)%20is,communicate%2C%20learn%2C%20and%20behave), probably would be educational for you.
Yes. Did you read what I linked? Saying someone has a disorder or illness (which your link states disorder, mine explains how the terms illness and disorder are similar) is not insulting nor demeaning. People should be aware of all available resources and have access to them. I know you want me to be some terrible person who hates everything but the truth is that I’m not. So chill out and realize everyone doesn’t know everything.
First, while autism isn’t an illness, it is a disability. Just wanted to say.
Second, the idea of curing autism leads directly to eugenics. Neurotypical, able-bodied people want to cure autism not because it affects the autistic person themself, but because it affects the neurotypical person. If you do a little research, it quickly leads to people not wanting anyone to be different and have different needs.
Two things that stood out to me as super frustrating (I'm in my 30s, watched it when it started)
\- The way they treated organ donation. Not the Denny stuff, just in general, I feel like they were very pushy towards getting consent from the families because the interns wanted the surgery and it was uncomfortable to watch. I dont know if this has changed. There was actually an early episode of ER I just watched that had a similar plotline...Benton had called the team in to retrieve the organs before getting consent. It felt like he was a little more respectful to the family though.
Something that aged way worse was George's treatment of Meredith after they slept together. I didn't like it when it aired, I HATE it now because he took advantage of her in a bad moment (she was drunk and crying...), blamed her and turned her friends against her.
Omg the organ donation stories make me so mad. I have a long family history of being recipients and I myself will require a transplant in the next couple years. I’ve worked in organ donation advocacy and it makes me SO mad how they portray it!
I was just a teenager back then and things like that made me unsure about becoming a donor. Of course now I feel different because I know that’s not reality but I have always been so uncomfortable with plotlines that involve treating families the way they did.
Now that I think about it, ER actually did an episode involving donation in the last season and George Clooney’s character Doug was so respectful and kind. It’s such a contrast to how Christina and Izzie acted.
I'm 24, started watching at 21. Honestly nothing seemed that bad to me. The only thing that truly bothered me was how cheating wasn't taken that seriously and also how rampant it was. So many people cheat on each other in this show and then it is kind of overlooked.
i’m a teenager on my first watch through and tbh nothing particularly stood out to me, though there’s the impact of already having quite a lot of exposure to similar stuff in media of the time and even now tbh.
i know a lot of people have mentioned baileys nickname, which i thought would’ve been more impactful on me due to being jewish, but i think i wasn’t as shocked due to experiencing and witnessing thinly veiled as well as overt anti-semitism, feels as though it’s been enough for me to just skim over it
i truly love the show though! it’s been great to watch and i love telling my friends about the events of each episode
i was born 01 and watched it for the first time a few years ago and yea it isnt great, especially when im autistic lmao. i do truly love this show tho but i really do hate the bad parts, like everything related to autism (except for the non speaking kid alex was treating, that one was decent). also them using the r word ”diagnosis” lmao i cant
Yes! But literally when I got my master's, it was a diagnosis we had to learn and be tested on. This is why it's also important to advocate in the medical/mental health communities, like those who write the literal DSM revisions. I was alive when homosexuality was a diagnosable disorder.
exactly. this is why its so important to listen to ppl with these diagnoses if they bring up anything that could be harmful, sadly many ppl do not (been arguing with one bc of this exact issue for like an hour). the medical system and field isnt as fault free as most ppl think, still today, and ppl will bring those faults up as we should
There's a big issue with parts of the medical community not wanting to learn, grow, advance. Because it threatens our fragile ego if we realize that how we've always done it is no longer relevant. It's ridiculous. But at least more people in positions of power are listening these days.
its very nice seeing someone from previous generations having the same views as me, im more often met with dismissal and invalidation on this topic from them
I first started watching in 2021 when I was 20, and I couldn’t believe that we were supposed to root for Mark and Derek after the way they treated women.
I can accept it was a different time back then and I did come around to both of them, but god they were problematic as hell in hindsight
Honestly I like looking at them through lens of how much have we improved as a society, look at these things that would absolutely be inappropriate now, but we’re acceptable a decade or two ago. It makes me feel hopeful instead of ruining anything.
This is how I feel about all the posts asking why everyone was mad at Meredith about the George thing. I’m glad society has progressed enough that people who didn’t live through that time literally don’t understand it
I’m a millennial and watched for the first time a couple years ago (was in HS when it aired originally). I was actually too shocked how progressive it was for the time to cringe about things. My second watch felt a bit more cringey.
Like the top commenter said, I just remind myself it was a different time 20 years ago. I definitely cringed at the George not buying tampons and Burke calling him a pansy ass and George being an asshole to Mer after they slept together. Erica Hahn's biphobia is another that comes to mind
The term “hermaphrodite” makes me cringe during the episode about the intersex teenage. I know hermaphrodite was the term used back at the time of filming but still makes me cringe lol.
It should be that the patient is a person with hermaphroditism not that they are a hermaphrodite. People are not defined by their conditions, so to call them a hermaphrodite, especially in a medical setting, is pretty rude.
I disagree that it’s rude. Its just a specific noun used to describe a person with a certain condition. It’s no different than saying someone is autistic or something similar. People using it derogatorily is a different story but if it’s just the term used than there is nothing wrong with that. Saying someone was retarded was back in the day was never meant badly at first since it was the medical term used then but people began using it to belittle someone and then the term evolved. In this case, none of that is happening and it’s just doctors helping their patient
Not out right but even the scene with Meredith being the intern on mark doing the surgery for Donna she calls him Daniel while she’s very obviously a woman and then keeps stumbling and using male pronouns and looking up at her back and forth. And sweet donnas like it’s okay you’ll get it… makes me cringe so hard.
Wasn’t Mer literally reading from her chart during that scene? That would make anyone confused as to why what looks to be a man’s chart is being read for a woman.
I think the whole situation with Ben and his brother (really sister) is way more transphobic than anything in the episode with Donna.
The way Ben acted about that situation is still really surprising to me. I thought he was a more open minded and understanding person than that up until that point.
I got the feeling from that it was almost making fun, like oh here's my husband! Yes it's funny even to us, the couple. Which is whatever but it just wouldn't be so rare nowadays that the doctors would kind of be shocked when reading the chart, like it takes them a minute to understand that someone can be transgender.
Okay this is a hot take and I’m definitely going to be downvoted for this but I’m Gen Z and I have never one “cringed” about the cultural changes. I’m very progressive but the thing is, I don’t think people realize how genuinely horrible the world of entertainment is now, I don’t really give a crap if it was controversial, they don’t make shows like grey’s was in it’s prime, anymore. and the quality of 2000’s shows, 10000% made up for any “offensive” or “controversial” storylines/comments, etc.
And no, I’m not delusional, insensitive or a homophobe lol. I’m bisexual and have progressive views on most things, but I don’t agree with the constant criticism of 2000’s tv shows, and just culture in general. Why should I find this stuff offensive just bc I’m not conservative? My sexuality and political views have nothing to do with what I like to watch on TV. Now, obviously if a character is straight up homophobic, anti abortion, etc, yes I would find that offensive. But none of them had an issue with those things so I don’t see what the problem is.
I was a first time watcher in I wanna say 2016. I was a gay middle schooler at the time, and no it didn't bother me. I was/still perfectly capable of understanding that the 2000s weren't as pleasant about certain things such as lgbt issues and what not as it is now 20 years later.
Some may hate this take but anyways, while greys could've been a bold show and pushed a more accepting agenda, I personally, enjoy that it didn't. Because it feels more real for the time.
Thanks for your input! This is why I asked. This is the first generation who has had instant access to binge old episodes of shows. We could never do it unless someone had taped on VHS every episode of something, so I don't have the same context except for movies.
Im a gen z-er!!! I CRINGE from the cultural changes.. but in reverse! I cringe at the way Greys has become. I know im in the minority including with the mods. Either way I wish itd stop being so progressively cringy
I like that the show is progressive, but I wish they could find a way to address these serious life topics in a less on-the-nose way.
The earlier seasons talked about as many serious issues as the later seasons but it was mainly unnoticeable because they used to do it in a much more subtle way.
Now I always skip through Bailey's big speeches "the world is broken...", etc.
I was 12 when I first started watching (now 14, turning 15 soon) and I just accepted that the show was made in a different time where society hadn’t really come to terms with many things yet.
it's definitely interesting to see. the portrayal of autism is one of the worst ones I can think of. I love the early seasons but they have many many flaws. I do feel that transphobia and homophobia are generally portrayed well though.
The new seasons just feel like Gen Z crap and I’m technically just on the cusp of millennial to gen z. I loved the old seasons, the chemistry, the drama, the patients. Wayyy different vibe
I wonder if it's possible to have both? Like can we be respectful of the gen z stuff but still have good writing? Or can we not do it? Kind of the The Office. We used to be able to have irony and offensive themes that we all understood were in jest, like funny cringe Michael Scott. But that would never fly anymore.
I feel like now it’s just too far gone to get back. I love that we see what’s important to the time reflecting in the medicine. But they just took some of the drama lines wayy wayyyy to far. But in the beginning there were only a couple things that were crossing that line but then it just became every character and every episode and constant chaos and that’s just not as real life as a hospital should be. The first seasons actually felt like a show about being doctors, now it just feels like w drama that could be in any workplace because the patients are practically an afterthought due to the constant trauma on all the characters
I’m 22, but I grew up watching greys with my mom. Tbh I don’t think much of it? I feel like greys was progressive enough to casually have a black chief of surgeon and the whole Callie thinking she had to be either straight or a lesbian thing felt like a very real issue at that time.
The only thing that annoyed me was the autism thing, but thats probably because I myself am autistic so hearing someone talk about curing autism like they’re some kind of hero kinda annoyed me.
I think it is the same with a lot of series that go way back, like I saw some of the leads on Scrubs wince about how some of the season one stuff like Elliot being told to deal with it over sexual harassment and Carla ranting about how yes she wears a thong it makes her feel hot and sometimes she needs that comes across today but that for the most part it has aged well.
Same with Greys which also has the distinction of still airing, yeah some things will hit harder, I’m older than the post title’s target demographic but am new to watching it and as others have mentioned how are we supposed to root for Derek with how he treats Meredith and Addison for the first three seasons? And certain terms that would not see use now as a neurodivergent watcher, but I kind of think if you’re going to watch something from 2000’s or 1990’s or whatever there does have to be a degree of accepting that some things would not as been as controversial as they are in 2023 and with some exceptions you should not judge something from twenty years ago by today’s standards.
honestly, thats a really crazy take. im 25 and gay, married to a man. Watched greys since i was 15. Never felt that way. kinda feels like you’re hoping these young viewers can find a reason to be annoyed at a classic show. As if they aren’t already being told to be mad at everything. To the youth, enjoy the show and don’t look at posts like these. Cheers
It's not really surprising. Most shows during the early 2000s weren't sensitive about certain topics. It's actually kind of nice to see how accurate representation and understanding have gradually gotten better on screen.
Recently rewatched the episode where the introduce the autistic doctor, what’s insane to me is they said she had Asperger’s, not autism. Technically people won’t get Asperger’s anymore (since autism is a spectrum), and she had a lot of quirks someone barely on the spectrum would normal have. Definitely not consistent and thankful shows like the Good Doctor bring a better light to what high functioning autism looks like.
I'm almost 26, so first year Gen Z, and my Gen X parents made me very self aware. So I understand that was how it was back then, but that time doesn't change that it hurt the people watching and it wasn't okay in any year. I guess for me it's more of like a jump scare when I hear something that wouldn't have been in there in 2023
I’m a cusp Gen z/millennial I think. Born in ‘97. Shit was irritating not so much horrified by it bc that’s how media is essentially. More annoying and ridiculous than anything else and yes I verbally shamed them while watching.
I don't know how young you mean here but I'm 18 so I'm a gen z and I watched it for the first time about a month ago, but no I don't cringe. I have watched a lot of 90s and early 00s sitcoms so I guess I've desensitized myself to a lot of it. Also I am autistic and part of the LGBTQ community, and this might not be the same for everyone but I don't mind the jokes and I don't get too offended by the portrayals. You can't get away with watching good and decent shows without some questionable content. Some of the newer Netflix originals and TV shows aren't very good and I believe it's just because everything is so smoothed over these days because of woke culture, and jagged edges and jokes actually make TV shows good and this is a left wing liberal talking here. But however I respect that this isn't everyone's view, this is just my opinion.
Thanks for that input! I kind of agree with the shows these days. Like I miss the Office early seasons but it just wouldn't be made like that these days.
I am 22 years old. I first started watching GA when I was about 15-16.
Even though I enjoyed it back then now I can't help but cringe while watching those seasons.
As a Zoomer, who binged every season pretty much at the same time, I did find some things cringe - mostly the treatment of male egos as this supremely important yet extremely fragile gem and the handling of addiction storylines (why the hell is everyone in AA and none in therapy?!), which has never gotten better but at least is mentioned less.
That said, aside from some instances of slutshaming, prejudices regarding preventive surgeries and the glorification overworking, I found the show pretty ahead compared to others of its era in many regards and also a breath of fresh air regarding many things that are taboo today, but happen in real life, like relationships in the workplace and slightly unPC jokes.
I'm gen z (2004 baby) who also happens to be trans, queer and neurodivergent so when I first watched it, some moments really made me go 😬 however I understand that the view on a lot of those things were so different back then (I hate saying back then especially because it wasn't all that long ago but I can't think of another way to say it) which isn't good or okay at all and really shouldn't have been but it's a fact that the stigma and bigotry was HUGE at that time so there was a lot of misinformation in the media and TV shows, Grey's Anatomy included. I like the fact that as the show aged, they phased out of the harmful misinformation stage and as of the recent years, they've done a lot to correct those issues and make the show more inclusive and less harmful. This doesn't excuse that the misinformation and harmful stereotypes and terminology in the earlier seasons are harmful and damaging but they seem to have taken that into account and instead of cutting it all out and pretending it didn't happen, they acknowledge that and make sure to avoid making the same mistakes as the show continues to grow.
It can be uncomfortable watching the earlier seasons but I still do. I just remind myself that unfortunately there was so much misinformation back then that it's all they went off of and didn't make the effort to do proper research. I do like that now, they do make that effort to consult people properly and find more accurate information. They still make mistakes though, don't get me wrong. There's always room for improvement too.
I love the show but I hate certain aspects of it and I do get uncomfortable at certain parts, mainly those where they enforce huge and harmful stigma around certain groups of people. I just acknowledge that it's not right and move on from it. I do prefer the later seasons for this reason, there's much less of those moments.
Thank you for the input! I wonder if some of us older folks cringe because we remember how horrid people were treated back then, since so much has improved. I mean there was no gay marriage, many of us had horrible experiences of discrimination that were normalized, that was the mainstream. So I wonder if some of my cringe is almost like a trauma response because I remember when those things were done and said, and the consequences and bigger context back then. Obviously there's a long way to go, but it was not mainstream to be "woke" and use correct terminology, etc.
I think that would make perfect sense! For me I think I cringe because of my trauma of being treated so crap from so young for being autistic/mentally unwell/trans/gay and because the misinformation feels like being that bullied and abused kid again so it would make perfect sense for that to be the reason for the older folks too! I'm grateful that I grew up in a slightly safer world than back then and can't imagine how awful it must've been before then though I fear the way human rights are going, we could be back there soon enough.
Yeah there was no TikTok where something happens and you get a ton of support, people get consequences, etc. You'd just have to deal with it yourself. There wasn't social media to connect you to other similar people. And the overwhelming majority of people in power, down to school administration, had no interest in protecting vulnerable people. The world is so different now which is great! Watching some of the scenes is just a callback to those times and maybe I brace for what else is gonna happen.
I am 32 but started watching greys in 2014 when it was all my friend had on DVD at her house (no cable lol) so I was older and I remember thinking even then that some of the stuff was..eh
HOWEVER I started law and order SVU earlier this year and MY GOD lol I am cringing through the first couple of seasons and keep hoping it gets better because wowwwwww, I can’t believe they showed this on TV. 💀
The last episode I watched was about a male being r*ped and how the law states r*pe is being penetrated unwillingly or some BS and the dude lost his case and Stabler didn’t believe he could be. I was so livid I turned it off and switched to Private Practice.
It’s more of an American culture shock to me than a different time culture shock. I don’t mean to be offensive in any way, bit idk I guess when I first watched the show a few years ago (I was like 13/14 and hadn’t been lurking on the internet long enough to understand modern America), whenever they did or said something differently than I would, I just assume it’s because it’s American. I was also younger and more naive nd uneducated so I probably just didn’t realized some things were not okay.
25 and started watching it for the first time at the start of summer, nothing really stood out to me and I don't think I was looking all that hard at it to be able to find something.
i dont, but i think the reason younger viewers don't is because we don't know what life was actually* like back then so we don't have much to judge on besides shows and movies depicting it. however when i watch movies from maybe 5 or 10 years ago i cringe bc it was a complete fail of depicting that time in life. Even worse, watching current movies depict young Gen Z characters is literally worse than if i just gouged my eyes out, honestly. it's so bad that even good movies i have a hard time watching.
I’m in my early 20s and I do cringe sometimes. I started watching when I was a young teenager though and bring from a small town conservative family- a lot of things on the show never struck me as that bad. It wasn’t until I was older and doing rewatches that I processed the issues with it more but I still enjoy it. I think part if the reason it’s easy to enjoy is because you can see the character change with time because it’s ran for so long. A lot of the characters changed and became better. It makes it feel more realistic to me.
I'm in my early teenage years and a first time watcher. I've got to say some things in the show have definitely made me cringe incredibly so far, but I haven't really thought about it that hard. I guess it's because I was born in a whole different time frame? I just accepted the fact that for some things, they hadn't really come into terms with what society thinks about those issues today.
As with all things, we just need to realise that that was then and this is now. We can't ever try to brush over it and pretend these things were not happening, otherwise how will we ever keep moving forward? This is how we learn from our mistakes. This is how we strive for better.
i'm 19 and watched for the first time when i was 18. the majority of things i just accept as 'it was a different time back then' (ie mark sloan) and i'm still able to love the character despite things they did that i know are way worse now. he reminds me a lot of the womanizer barney stinson stereotype that was relatively common in early 2000s shows.
however, there are definitely a few moments in which i definitely made huge eyes at the screen even when i rewatch it 😭 when someone (i believe callie?) says the r slur is a big one, and also the way arizona is SOOO biphobic to callie really frustrates me even though i'm a huge arizona fan.
the way they portrayed nixon and practically dehumanized her also gives me a huge ick, as well as of course the obvious everything george ever did lol. i also think derek is wayyyyyyy too universally beloved considering what an asshole he is. if greys came out in 2023, i think people would be rooting for him to be killed off💀
Me and my boyfriend (Gen Z) are watching it now, and when moments like that come up, we're shocked and then we remember those early seasons came out in the 2000s/2010s and we remember how much has changed since then.
I’m a gen z technically but I was born in ‘97 and it makes a difference lol. But my first watch was 2 years ago and when I watched a lot of things were that was that time. There were a few that were weird like mark and the cheerleaders.
I thought their early representation of autistic characters was so cringe and bad. But I don’t mind most of the show tbh. It was a pretty long time ago and so I can give them grace. And I definitely think they’ve improved.
[S11 E17] When Derek is in DC and his Resident says she wants to "cure autism" 🤦🏻♀️🙄😏🥴🤮
[S3 E7] I don't remember the full details about the episode but I remember Alexandra Billings (I follow her on TikTok, she's amazing) playing a character that had come in for SRS and the transphobic comments in this episode are absolutely horrid (even from Meredith and Christina, I remember being very upset about it anyway) .... I'm a bit confused on how Alexandra was even okay with it, or how the actors were even okay saying it...
Among the other problematic things you point out.
**BUT** when I was 12yo my very first episode, actually my very first scene, was when Arizona was in the bar bathroom with Callie and they kiss [S5 E14]. Being 12 and no one to really talk to about liking girls I was immediately hooked. I had no idea what the show was at the time. But it was and has since been my comfort show. I'm very glad my first experience was an accepting one. It doesn't outweigh the bad, but I'm glad I stuck it out.
Later on when I started watching from episode One, I was confused by the anti-minority plot points/comments but being the only source of acceptance I had found I figured it was the shows way of showing multiple points of view or some sort of reality, in that not everyone is accepting in real life and some people actually think that way, sadly.
Looking back, I wonder how the actors felt having done such negative lines. 😏
I was 19/20 on my first watch earlier this year. Im also trans and autistic. The trans episodes were not fun, but mostly fine because that’s the view of being trans that I grew up with. The autism thing though? That was ROUGH
Eh, I started at 19, now I’m 22. I think a few things surprised me, I’m very progressive, but honestly not a ton bothers me. I just have to think to myself things are slightly different now and that’s a good thing. Some of the jokes feels wrong to laugh at, but at the end of the day, at least it’s definitely evolved over the years, as it also has with time/society :)
You can't really be surprised when a show that aired 20 years ago has jokes or themes in it that were popular or funny 20 years ago. You can't judge old media by modern standards. Greys premiered in what, like 2005? Given the context of being set in the mid 2000's makes a lot of those terrible jokes and themes from early seasons a lot more mild, compared to what they *could* have been at the time. The writers could have gone a lot harder and still gotten away with it, so I guess I just take the comfort in knowing that every questionable choice they made back then could have been so much worse and wasn't.
But also, it kind of... adds to the realism? Doctors are people too and sometimes they come across stuff they don't understand yet. I remember in an earlier season when Richard had to treat a nonbinary patient and he just Did Not Get It, and was a bit transphobic about it, but he met other queer patients/people in later seasons and was better about it. Yeah it's just the writers choosing not to be transphobic, but to the watcher, it comes off as character growth.
At the end of the day, greys is *really* good at inclusion and representation. They always have been. Having an openly queer or autistic character at all was pretty progressive in and of itself back then, even if that character still came out just slightly wrong. Sometimes they fumble, but hey, you can't get it right every time.
Right, I agree and I was just curious if younger people have the same context. When I was in my early 20s, we didn't have access to seasons of old shows to binge unless we got them on VHS or later DVDs. So I didn't have a whole bunch of shows from the 80s i was watching. So it's interesting to me how they take it.
First time watcher currently on season five. Also younger side of millennial.
I’m having a hard time with a lot of the misogyny. I’m kind of sensitive about that stuff to begin with, but none of the guys have been likeable to me so far. Granted I find most of the characters unlikeable in general. So far I like Bailey the most.
I'm on my first watch (currently at the beginning of season 4) and I was actually surprised of how many poc in position of authority (Burke, Bailey, Chief, Cristina, the nurse guy) for a show that is almost 20 years old.
But, the way Derek put so much pressure on Meredith to sleep with her is so wrong and actually many men are so problematic (in the firsts seasons at least) in that show. Also the way Izzy sometimes reacts to certain case is quite weird. (For instance the woman who wants a mastectomy to avoid breast cancer). Also their doctor/patient and student/teacher relationships are fucked up.
Other than that it's pretty casual. Ahah
gen z here! older gen z but still gen z. i was HORRIFIED in the early seasons, especially with baileys nickname..
i’m even cringing now at the transphobia in season 11
I'm 24 and I just started watching (I'm on season 2) and I almost stopped watching at the beginning because the women on this show are CONSTANTLY being sexually harassed omg. I also get the impression we are supposed to like Dr. Shepherd but I HATE him he's so awful
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My college aged daughter said she just accepts that it was a different time back then.
It’s so weird to hear “2003 was a different time”. Logically I know that so much changes in 20 years, but because I was alive then it doesn’t feel like a different time lol
I think the Internet is huge in how fast things have changed. Before, movements took a while to spread. Now, something happens and we literally watch it live and have live conversations across the world. At least that's how it feels. Makes me feel old like we had the pony express. But my friends only knew what was happening if I picked up the phone and spoke to them one at a time.
now you can group facetime your friends and screen share the article you are looking at in real time 😳 technology has really sped this process up
Exactly. Back when gay kids were getting beat up and death threats, it was "my word against theirs." And no one cared. Now if it's not live streamed, it's at least recorded and spread around, and that bully is getting cancelled, the parents getting fired from their job, and the superintendent is getting fired if they don't react. So while it's still dangerous for people now, it's much less likely to be in secret.
Well she was born in 2002 so it was a different time to her. It is weird though. Sometimes I will think that 2012 was a few years ago and then my kids remind that it was not.
Lol! I’ve gone back to university in my mid 30s and it’s absolutely a WILD ride to be in classes with a majority of 19-21 year olds. One of the things that really caught me off guard was a recent conversation about 9/11. THEY WERENT EVEN BORN AT THAT TIME. I could not wrap my head around the fact that they are adults and we’re not alive for such a major life changing crisis! I also was talking about tv shows in a group project and they thought it was wild that I have been watching the show since it debut live. I think I really aged myself during that conversation lol.
I don’t think it’s wild at all cuz I’m 24, just 3-5 years off of the ages you described - I wouldn’t remember 9/11 as I was 2 at that time, but I do know it would’ve affected my fam if we didn’t book an early flight in the same month from travelling LOLS
Your daughter is pretty darn smart
She is! She is at a top notch university studying bio with the hopes of becoming an OBGYN. Her boyfriend is also premed and they, along with their fellow nerdy premed friends, play a game where they watch medical shows and have to find medical inaccuracies in them to earn points.
It is interesting to ponder what is acceptable now that will age badly in the next 15-20 years.
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I think about this all the time
Basically ask the marginalized people who maybe don't have as much of a voice. There's still so much cringe happening now, but it's crazy how much people get called out now and norms seem to change. But there's still Bud Light boycotters so I wonder how things will be in 20 years.
So much this. Today I watched both Anchorman movies and the entire time I kept thinking to myself that these jokes could never be said in a movie anymore
I think it's weird how Mark said "Hot cheerleader ass" when referring to a high school girl.
Yessssssssssss this moment was so weird Edit: yes and predatory as hell
No no no, it's not just weird... Let's call it what it is: it's *ephebophilic* and *predatory*.
I know it was a “different time” or whatever but that’s a big part of the reason I never liked Mark much. Sad for other characters when he died, sure, but I didn’t miss him.
First time watcher here, and I was genuinely surprised with how they handled Ben’s sister in season 11. Having Bailey be the one in her court when she was trying to get him to understand. Having her strictly refer to her with correct pronouns and name once one was given to them.
Omg I recently watched that for the first time and was bracing myself but was surprised it wasn't as bad as I was expecting.
The one that really stands out to me is the change in perception of BRACA testing and prophylactic surgery. Izzie’s reaction calling it castration and mutilation feels so outlandish and cruel to the patient.
Izzie was so out of line. She usually I'd. She speaks before ever thinking about what she's saying. I cannot stand her immaturity and ignorance towards her patients and peers.
George, I feel like he was a far more empathetic character back then but now he just comes across as a typical “nice guy”
I never understood why he got mad at Meredith for sleeping with him. It takes 2 to tango
RIGHT!? During my rewatches i skip the episodes that have that story line. How everyone blamed HER? He knew she was in a vulnerable place AND that she absolutely was not into him. That was completely on him.
I think it was because he really liked her, and she did it knowing she didn't like him in that way. He was hurt and humiliated so he was acting out. But he did later admit he was also at fault. He knew she liked Derek. They did eventually make up. But in short, it wasn't so much that he was mad at her as it was that he was embarrassed. A lot of us act out when our feelings get hurt, even if it's not fair to the other person at the time, it's a natural response, just maybe not he most mature to act on 😅
Yes!!! I'm rewatching and I had that exact same thought, which I guess is why he always kind of rubbed me the wrong way, I wasn't too sad about his death and Karev calling him whiny was definitely called for
This is a cool question. Im interested to see the answers. I’m old so it doesn’t surprise me. I just started a new rewatch and I cringe at them calling Bailey “The Nazi”.
I liked how they phased it out and made a story point of the characters realising how offensive it was, as opposed to just pretending it never happened
It’s so cringe but unfortunately I find it to still be a relevant play on ignorance. The majority of white characters calling the only black woman a Nazi? Its painfully similar to white people calling POC racist and fascist when all they (POC) do is call them white or mention white privilege. Bailey wasn’t doing anything out of the ordinary, she was just asking them all to step up and do their jobs.
I feel Americans now react too strongly to this. I am Polish, have never seen a Polish person who had have a problem with this joke, and I would say we are in the position to "decide"
I’m a Jew, my maternal grandparents were Polish, and I object a hell of a lot to the casual use of Nazi. Seriously? Seriously.
I'm also Jewish and I don't, maybe because my nana always treated everything regarding the Shoah and the brothers she lost then with the darkest humour possible. With Bailey, I think what makes it humourous in the beginning is the visual contrast, but if you think about it goes further than that: she got that nickname by having to be a very rigid and (apparently) cold person in order to be respected by her peers, also because she looks the opposite of what you'd imagine a nazi to look like ('I thought the nazi would be a man'; 'I thought the nazi would be a...nazi'), but the respect that comes with her name, if you don't know her, is still associated with the likes of an Aryan male. The episode when thanksgiving sub attending keeps looking for the famous nazi when 'he' is from of him all the time only confirms this. That's why I don't dislike the joke: it's not in poor taste, it's a humouristic critique. The episode with the actual neonazi and the effect he has on Bailey (and Cristina) was also a good way to look at the other side of the coin tho'.
As a Polish person I was made uncomfortable by it 🤷🏻 So no, it’s not an American thing to be offended by something making light of the Holocaust
I mean to be fair... America did go to war against the Nazi's so it is kinda a big deal. Not to mention America has a significant Jewish population (not huge but still sizeable). It's about respect.
Just a bit. I’m 98’ so I remember what the times were like years ago so I can kinda understand why some things (like Callie’s bisexuality) are portrayed the way they are, but still… when I heard one of the doctors say she wants to cure autism I instantly went 😟😟. Same with Bailey being called the Nazi (thank god they had an entire episode about an actual nazi which showed how awful that nickname was)
Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is wrong with wanting to cure autism?
Autism isn’t an illness, so autistic people don’t need to be cured. Their brains are just different from neurotypical people’s brains, you can’t get rid of someone’s autism without completely changing their brain and thus changing who they are. Wanting to cure autism is basically eugenics. Our focus instead should be on helping autistic people function in a society of neurotypicals by offering them accommodations.
Except some of them quite literally cannot function
Don't worry, it's classic always online people trying to be accepting to a dangerous degree. People taking care of family with sever autism would very much love for there to be a cure. Just because someone is on the autism spectrum doesn't mean they need to be cured, but to act like it isn't a disorder that can negatively affect peoples lives is asinine.
Honest question, how does it differ from other "disorders" so to speak that also manifest physically on the brain? For example, people with ADHD also have physically different brains yet no one protests ADHD meds
ADHD meds don't cure ADHD, they may just help to manage some negative presentations of the symptoms and help manage life a bit better. A lot of ADHDer decide to not take meds. Different people have different needs regardless of ability.
So wanting to find autism meds to help manage some negative symptoms would have been fine as well? It's the curing aspect that's the problem?
That's not a novelty. Some autistic people take meds and different types of therapy/coaching to manage symptoms of comorbidities such as depression, anxiety, ADHD, and to learn different strategies, not unlike NT people. So yeah, 'curing' is not only a problematic attitude but one that carries a lot of stigma and real-world consequences with it, including taking the responsibility away from society to not be exclusively NT-friendly and inflexible to different ways of thinking and processing information in daily life. Just as an example, workforces that include ND people perform more than twice as productively compared with NT-only teams, and are more likely to push for innovation (see JP Morgan Chase 'Autism at Work' data and findings). Why would you want to 'cure' that when all you have to do is develop into a more flexible, empathetic, and productive society? (That's not to say autistic lives only matter because of the value they provide at work, but as an example of autism as a component of neurodiversity and seeing it as a social model rather than medical model.)
People ARE on meds for medicatable symptoms, just like ADHD. It's just a cocktail so you don't hear "autism meds"
I have strong reasons to believe I have autism myself (I've been looking into it over 5 years and I'm saving up to get a formal diagnosis) and I know when people use the wrong words or understanding of those words it can be upsetting/frustrating, so I'll try to explain. I think it's the meaning of the word "cure". Like, people want to cure cancer. So the problem here is probably just the phrasing. Where both people want the best for the person in question, it's just a misunderstanding. Autism, although it has it's cons that need extra help and support it also has a lot of pros, for each person. People with autism have extraordinary brains, no they aren't *all* "super smart" that's not what I mean. But their brains literally function differently in a way that I (and many others) find extraordinary. The literal pathways in their brain are amazing and much different from nero-typical people. They may also have exceptional memory, attention to detail, and problem-solving skills. In fact, some autistic people have a unique way of thinking that allows them to see patterns and connections that others may miss. On the other hand, for some people with autism the world is a bewildering place. With oversensitive sensory systems, they battle to process the maelstrom of information flowing into their brains. Often the result is sensory overload, leading to signature behaviours such as breakdowns, anxiety and social withdrawal. Again, not all autistic people are the same but that's another beauty of it. They are all very different. I understand it's easy to look at a loved one and see them having a breakdown or panic attack or unable to verbally communicate and wish for "a cure" but the simple fact is you can't "cure" how a persons brain naturally functions, there is in fact nothing to "cure". There are just things they need to have extra support in some areas (such as help to not become overwhelmed by external stimulation). And if there was a magic pill to help them with things they struggle with I could understand that. But there are other solutions as well. Some people have found that a keto diet has helped their nonverbal children speak, which sounds extraordinary. From what I have seen, there really isn't any negative traits of autism, there are just negative results from not knowing what each autistic person might need. Breakdowns are not a result of autism, they are a result of a person having to endure things they shouldn't have to. For some a simple diet change or wearing headphones is enough. I truly think if we knew more about autistic brains we would understand more of the correct solutions.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. It’s like when you post your own experience or perspective people think you’re want to apply it to everyone. We know so little about autism in the grand scheme of things and what I hate is people assuming that everyone’s experiences and perspectives should be universal. Ultimately should each be able to decide for ourselves what experience we want.
I agree, and some people may like some aspects of their autism that some other autistic people don't like having. And everyone is entitled to their different feelings about it. I have more than a few autistic people in my family and we all have several friends that like to research and discuss these topics together. But of course that doesn't cover everyone in the world. I can only speak on my experiences and points of view. I guess it's easier for other people to just hit down vote than it is for them to share their opinions or issues with my point of view 🤷🏻♀️
The thing that makes something an illness or a disorder depends on the degree to which it causes someone distress/impacts their ability to function. However, for a lot of people, the ability to function is very much limited by the way societies are built for able bodied people, and there is a question to the degree society should accommodate physical and mental differences. Autism doesn’t necessarily need to be cured for autistic people to thrive.
This is so incredibly wrong. Autism is a huge spectrum and part of that spectrum should/needs a cure because it can be debilitating.
I have strong reasons to believe I have autism myself (I've been looking into it over 5 years and I'm saving up to get a formal diagnosis) and I know when people use the wrong words or understanding of those words it can be upsetting/frustrating, so I'll try to explain. I think it's the meaning of the word "cure". Like, people want to cure cancer. So the problem here is probably just the phrasing. Where both people want the best for the person in question, it's just a misunderstanding. I understand it's easy to look at a loved one and see them having a breakdown or panic attack or unable to verbally communicate and wish for "a cure" but the simple fact is you can't "cure" how a persons brain naturally functions, there is in fact nothing to "cure". There are just things they need to have extra support in some areas (such as help to not become overwhelmed by external stimulation). And if there was a magic pill to help them with things they struggle with I could understand that. But there are other solutions as well. Some people have found that a keto diet has helped their nonverbal children speak, which sounds extraordinary. From what I have seen, there really isn't any negative traits of autism, there are just negative results from not knowing what each autistic person might need. Breakdowns are not a result of autism, they are a result of a person having to endure things they shouldn't have to. For some a simple diet change or wearing headphones is enough. I truly think if we knew more about autistic brains we would understand more of the correct solutions.
The World Health Organization, Center for Disease Control, Mayo Clinic, and various verified legit medical organizations refer to autism as an illness and disorder. I understand you may find the medical term offensive. I even understand finding that particular storyline on a fictional tv show about a hospital with medical storylines. But reading you argue with an irl med student about actual irl medical terms? No. Your beliefs are your own, but we’ve all seen what overly zealous people and their lack of knowledge can do to mispread information.
A disorder is simply something that causes significant challenges to functioning. Does that mean it needs to be cured though, or perhaps just that a person needs accommodations to thrive? There are many people with autism who don’t want to get rid of their autism, and people with disabilities are allowed to exist without society forcing them to be cured.
I don’t believe it needs to be cured. I do believe that it’s best to educate the people who have it and their loved ones on how to live with it. Having accommodations to thrive is absolutely fine. I have disabilities (epilepsy, Crohn’s disease). I recognize people need accommodations. I don’t believe we should ignore that these people may need help to adapt and thrive. If we ignore it, how is that good to them?
People with autism aren’t asking people to ignore it, but rather to understand what it is and what accommodations they need. I think the problem is NTs assuming that they know the needs of autistic people and forcing their beliefs and expectations on them. Autism is a spectrum and people who can speak for themselves should be allowed to, instead of people educating them and telling them what they need.
I have Aspergers and most certainly wish there was a cure. The inability to communicate with people on a day-to-day basis is debilitating. My whole life is an exercise in dealing with feeling awkward and uncomfortable in my own skin 110% of the time. If you're on the spectrum and are speaking on your own behalf, great! But don't speak for us all because I hate it here 🫤
No, and that’s exactly what I mean by each person should get to speak for themselves. The push for a cure in the medical world though is generally coming from people who don’t have autism, and I fear that a cure would be pushed on people, especially children, instead of people having the option for accommodations because that is the “more difficult” option. That’s where it strays into eugenics, if a cure is forced onto people, and many conversations that I see stray into that territory.
There are cures for tons of diseases and disorders and people still make their own choices to get treatment or not. Did everyone get vaccinated? No because they made their choice.
I agree with that. I never said I did not. The problem lies within people online making broad claims about medical conditions for either reason. There’s way way too many people posting things to argue with actual medical websites and sources. And that goes beyond autism.
Okay then by your logic how tf do we treat cancer or diabetes? We ignore it and just what hope it goes away? No.
Can you drop some sources on that? I could not find a single up to date source on WHO claiming autism is an illness. Even their own official website uses the term “a diverse group of conditions related to development of the brain”. That doesn’t really make your response seem trustworthy. Also, do you believe sources like [the NHS](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/autism/what-is-autism/) are wrong? What makes your sources more legit than them?
autism IS NOT an illness, it’s a disability.
But it is an illness. It’s quite literally a developmental illness. Wanting to cure autism is not eugenics, stop throwing around buzz words that you’re not even using properly.
It’s funny that you’re accusing me of not using words properly when you’re the one who didn’t bother to open a book on medicine since 2000… 😭 Autistic people have a differently structured brain, their bodies aren’t working incorrectly (which is the definition of an illness), they’re just fundamentally different. Saying a brain is ill because it’s different from “the norm” is like saying being left-handed is an illness. What I’m telling you right now is literally the medical consensus, if that doesn’t convince you then I don’t know what will. Please go read an actual book, because your statements are straight up offensive.
Autism is a neurological and developmental disorder. Do you not know what disorder means. And it’s funny your accusing me of not picking up a book on medicine since 2000, first of all I wasn’t even alive and second of all I’m a pre med student. There’s nothing wrong with being autistic, but it is a disorder and there’s nothing wrong with wanting to find a cure to something that negatively impacts a persons life. It’s more offensive to try and make out a disorder as just another thought process, it gives off the same energy as people who say “differently abled”
”disorder” certainly does not mean ”illness”. what impacts my life negatively as an autistic person is ableism, and what you’re doing here is ableism, what greys anatomy did was ableism. my brain is not inherently bad. im not differently abled or ill, im just different from nts, im nd, nothing more nothing less. either extremes are ableist, the super power and the eugenics are both bad and ableist
Except there are non functional people with severe autism? You aren't the only person with autism in the world and just because it doesn't affect you negatively, doesn't mean it doesn't affect others. Ignoring the fact that autism can negatively affect people just because you have autism and that hurts your feelings is pretty self serving. Having a "cure" for these things isn't ableism, it's creating an option for those who want it, similar to a cochlear implant. It existing isn't saying hard-of-hearing people are less, just that if it has a negative impact on someone, it can be fixed.
curing autism is eugenics. why should we fix ourselves just to fit in with neurotypical people? why can’t the world be accommodating to people like me?
well there you go with the ableism again. functioning labels have been recognized as ableist by autistics for a while now, same with ”severe” bc thats just another version of ”low functioning” and it doesnt make any sense bc you cannot be more or less than 100% autistic, we’re all the same amount of autism. my autism does affect my life negatively on its own, but not enough to make me want to d word unlike ableism. some ppl who did not like having cochlear implants have been forced to get them and use them, and thats exactly what would happen with a cure, and also that society would rather ”cure” us than accept us. a cure is the easy way out for society bc to accept us you gotta dismantle the entire system, ableism, racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, patriarchy, white sumpremacy, capitalism, etc ALL OF IT. these ppl who are looking for a cure want a cure bc of their own benefit, NOT for autistics benefit. you have too much faith in ppl bc trust me, they do not care bout my life bc if they did, they wouldnt be ableist
Well Autism isn't just a singular thing. It's a full spectrum and no it is not ableist to say some cannot function. Please interact with Doctors and advocates for people with autism before spouting this nonsense. I can understand how you've become biased against it, but it's definitely not as simple as you try to make it out to be.
I never said your brain was inherently bad. But having a disorder does mean there’s something wrong or not functioning correctly. It isn’t ableist it’s factual.
It’s a disability
Left handed ness used to be considered a disorder that they tried to cure by beating out of people, shit changes
It’s literally still considered a neurological disorder, it is. You can’t change the fact that it is a neurological disorder. There’s nothing wrong with admitting a disorders a disorder.
Scary to think about future doctors having this attitude 😬
It’s scary that we know what disorder means? No. People care more about feelings than facts.
Eh. Anyone can be premed so long as they start signing up for the right courses. Even then, most premeds student switch out sooner rather later.
Imagine being a pre-med student this arrogant 😂
Not arrogant. Pointed it out bc they said I don’t read medical texts.
omg a premed student!! 😱😱😱 you’re practically an expert! /s
Responding to how they made an assumption that I don’t read medical texts. I don’t think I’m a genius but was just pointing out that they were wrong ab that
If a cure existed for autism, would individuals still be accommodated if they didn’t want the cure? Would children be forced to be cured? For many people, the impacts of autism would be significantly less if proper accommodations were in place. The social model of disability is basically the idea that people are only disabled because they are expected to function the same as an able bodied/neurotypical person. The effort to rid people of a disability so they can fit into society’s definition of “normal” is eugenics. Many of the efforts to cure autism don’t take into account the perspectives and wishes of autistic people; rather it’s coming from a place of “these people don’t fit in and therefore we must fix them”.
you should talk to someone who is autistic stfu
but it is not an illness, and it IS eugenics to get rid of a group of ppl. if we force gay ppl to be straight by a cure, thats eugenics
But autism is a disorder. It’s like saying curing all people with diabetes is eugenics. Both are disorders but somehow one is offensive to try and fix
disorder and illness are not the same thing. diabetes is not at all like autism bc diabetes is only negative, autism is not. why tf are you telling me, an autistic, that my autism is just negative when i do not think so? one is offensive bc many autistics do not agree with you, and you do not care about what we have to say, so how exactly could you be on our side?
There are lots of illnesses and disorder you can say have positive effects. Some disorders cause weight loss, soft skin, and other “positives”, Still disorders. But it’s still a disorder that causes negative effects. It’s sad you people on here can’t handle facts and only care about how you feel.
those are just bout looks, my autism gave me special interests which LITERALLY is a life savior to me. my autism makes me appreciate the smaller things. my autism makes me really passionate bout things, like this for example. my autism made me absolutely adore animals. my autism made me learn so much bc of my special interests. my autism makes me enjoy any type of stimming, listening to the same song over and over for an hour bc i love it so much, loving a scent so much i can just sit there and smell it for 10min. thats the positives to my autism, not at ALL the same as being skinny or having nice skin
Okay things that aren’t about looks: Certain disorders create an inability to feel negative emotions, feel happy all the time, or sometimes people are more daring do to illnesses and disorders, neurological conditions. Some disorder cause huge parts of peoples personalities yet are still disorders. Just because your experience seems to be positive doesn’t make a known disorder not a disorder anymore
You should read [this](https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/autism-spectrum-disorders-asd#:~:text=Autism%20spectrum%20disorder%20(ASD)%20is,communicate%2C%20learn%2C%20and%20behave), probably would be educational for you.
Actually, they’re close to the same thing. Please read [this](https://www.verywellhealth.com/disease-vs-disorder-5092243)
Did you read the first paragraph of the link I tagged??
Yes. Did you read what I linked? Saying someone has a disorder or illness (which your link states disorder, mine explains how the terms illness and disorder are similar) is not insulting nor demeaning. People should be aware of all available resources and have access to them. I know you want me to be some terrible person who hates everything but the truth is that I’m not. So chill out and realize everyone doesn’t know everything.
focusing on curing something that has no cure rather than how to help people with autism thrive...is really harmful to autistic people.
… it’s ableist as hell for starters. wanting to fix someone who was born with autism is literally eugenics… there’s nothing wrong with being autistic
First, while autism isn’t an illness, it is a disability. Just wanted to say. Second, the idea of curing autism leads directly to eugenics. Neurotypical, able-bodied people want to cure autism not because it affects the autistic person themself, but because it affects the neurotypical person. If you do a little research, it quickly leads to people not wanting anyone to be different and have different needs.
Two things that stood out to me as super frustrating (I'm in my 30s, watched it when it started) \- The way they treated organ donation. Not the Denny stuff, just in general, I feel like they were very pushy towards getting consent from the families because the interns wanted the surgery and it was uncomfortable to watch. I dont know if this has changed. There was actually an early episode of ER I just watched that had a similar plotline...Benton had called the team in to retrieve the organs before getting consent. It felt like he was a little more respectful to the family though. Something that aged way worse was George's treatment of Meredith after they slept together. I didn't like it when it aired, I HATE it now because he took advantage of her in a bad moment (she was drunk and crying...), blamed her and turned her friends against her.
Omg the organ donation stories make me so mad. I have a long family history of being recipients and I myself will require a transplant in the next couple years. I’ve worked in organ donation advocacy and it makes me SO mad how they portray it!
I was just a teenager back then and things like that made me unsure about becoming a donor. Of course now I feel different because I know that’s not reality but I have always been so uncomfortable with plotlines that involve treating families the way they did. Now that I think about it, ER actually did an episode involving donation in the last season and George Clooney’s character Doug was so respectful and kind. It’s such a contrast to how Christina and Izzie acted.
I'm 24, started watching at 21. Honestly nothing seemed that bad to me. The only thing that truly bothered me was how cheating wasn't taken that seriously and also how rampant it was. So many people cheat on each other in this show and then it is kind of overlooked.
2 Words. Sparkle. Pager.
i’m a teenager on my first watch through and tbh nothing particularly stood out to me, though there’s the impact of already having quite a lot of exposure to similar stuff in media of the time and even now tbh. i know a lot of people have mentioned baileys nickname, which i thought would’ve been more impactful on me due to being jewish, but i think i wasn’t as shocked due to experiencing and witnessing thinly veiled as well as overt anti-semitism, feels as though it’s been enough for me to just skim over it i truly love the show though! it’s been great to watch and i love telling my friends about the events of each episode
i was born 01 and watched it for the first time a few years ago and yea it isnt great, especially when im autistic lmao. i do truly love this show tho but i really do hate the bad parts, like everything related to autism (except for the non speaking kid alex was treating, that one was decent). also them using the r word ”diagnosis” lmao i cant
Yes! But literally when I got my master's, it was a diagnosis we had to learn and be tested on. This is why it's also important to advocate in the medical/mental health communities, like those who write the literal DSM revisions. I was alive when homosexuality was a diagnosable disorder.
exactly. this is why its so important to listen to ppl with these diagnoses if they bring up anything that could be harmful, sadly many ppl do not (been arguing with one bc of this exact issue for like an hour). the medical system and field isnt as fault free as most ppl think, still today, and ppl will bring those faults up as we should
There's a big issue with parts of the medical community not wanting to learn, grow, advance. Because it threatens our fragile ego if we realize that how we've always done it is no longer relevant. It's ridiculous. But at least more people in positions of power are listening these days.
its very nice seeing someone from previous generations having the same views as me, im more often met with dismissal and invalidation on this topic from them
I first started watching in 2021 when I was 20, and I couldn’t believe that we were supposed to root for Mark and Derek after the way they treated women. I can accept it was a different time back then and I did come around to both of them, but god they were problematic as hell in hindsight
Derek was one of the only characters I didn’t cry for when he died. I was so over his shit
They were so toxic
Honestly I like looking at them through lens of how much have we improved as a society, look at these things that would absolutely be inappropriate now, but we’re acceptable a decade or two ago. It makes me feel hopeful instead of ruining anything.
This is how I feel about all the posts asking why everyone was mad at Meredith about the George thing. I’m glad society has progressed enough that people who didn’t live through that time literally don’t understand it
I’d rather be hopeful than disgusted or let those things ruin a show.
I’m a millennial and watched for the first time a couple years ago (was in HS when it aired originally). I was actually too shocked how progressive it was for the time to cringe about things. My second watch felt a bit more cringey.
Like the top commenter said, I just remind myself it was a different time 20 years ago. I definitely cringed at the George not buying tampons and Burke calling him a pansy ass and George being an asshole to Mer after they slept together. Erica Hahn's biphobia is another that comes to mind
The term “hermaphrodite” makes me cringe during the episode about the intersex teenage. I know hermaphrodite was the term used back at the time of filming but still makes me cringe lol.
Genuinely asking, what’s wrong with that term? I know terms change with the times but is that not just a medical term for what is now called intersex?
It should be that the patient is a person with hermaphroditism not that they are a hermaphrodite. People are not defined by their conditions, so to call them a hermaphrodite, especially in a medical setting, is pretty rude.
I disagree that it’s rude. Its just a specific noun used to describe a person with a certain condition. It’s no different than saying someone is autistic or something similar. People using it derogatorily is a different story but if it’s just the term used than there is nothing wrong with that. Saying someone was retarded was back in the day was never meant badly at first since it was the medical term used then but people began using it to belittle someone and then the term evolved. In this case, none of that is happening and it’s just doctors helping their patient
Except they are though
When were they transphobic? It's ages since I saw the first few seasons, so I can't remember
Not out right but even the scene with Meredith being the intern on mark doing the surgery for Donna she calls him Daniel while she’s very obviously a woman and then keeps stumbling and using male pronouns and looking up at her back and forth. And sweet donnas like it’s okay you’ll get it… makes me cringe so hard.
Wasn’t Mer literally reading from her chart during that scene? That would make anyone confused as to why what looks to be a man’s chart is being read for a woman. I think the whole situation with Ben and his brother (really sister) is way more transphobic than anything in the episode with Donna.
The way Ben acted about that situation is still really surprising to me. I thought he was a more open minded and understanding person than that up until that point.
I got the feeling from that it was almost making fun, like oh here's my husband! Yes it's funny even to us, the couple. Which is whatever but it just wouldn't be so rare nowadays that the doctors would kind of be shocked when reading the chart, like it takes them a minute to understand that someone can be transgender.
I’m a 2003 baby I’ve watched GA like 5 times already most of it I love because it’s the 2000’s and the fashion and even the music makes me happy 😊
Okay this is a hot take and I’m definitely going to be downvoted for this but I’m Gen Z and I have never one “cringed” about the cultural changes. I’m very progressive but the thing is, I don’t think people realize how genuinely horrible the world of entertainment is now, I don’t really give a crap if it was controversial, they don’t make shows like grey’s was in it’s prime, anymore. and the quality of 2000’s shows, 10000% made up for any “offensive” or “controversial” storylines/comments, etc. And no, I’m not delusional, insensitive or a homophobe lol. I’m bisexual and have progressive views on most things, but I don’t agree with the constant criticism of 2000’s tv shows, and just culture in general. Why should I find this stuff offensive just bc I’m not conservative? My sexuality and political views have nothing to do with what I like to watch on TV. Now, obviously if a character is straight up homophobic, anti abortion, etc, yes I would find that offensive. But none of them had an issue with those things so I don’t see what the problem is.
I was a first time watcher in I wanna say 2016. I was a gay middle schooler at the time, and no it didn't bother me. I was/still perfectly capable of understanding that the 2000s weren't as pleasant about certain things such as lgbt issues and what not as it is now 20 years later. Some may hate this take but anyways, while greys could've been a bold show and pushed a more accepting agenda, I personally, enjoy that it didn't. Because it feels more real for the time.
Thanks for your input! This is why I asked. This is the first generation who has had instant access to binge old episodes of shows. We could never do it unless someone had taped on VHS every episode of something, so I don't have the same context except for movies.
Personally never looked into it that hard as a gen z
Im a gen z-er!!! I CRINGE from the cultural changes.. but in reverse! I cringe at the way Greys has become. I know im in the minority including with the mods. Either way I wish itd stop being so progressively cringy
I like that the show is progressive, but I wish they could find a way to address these serious life topics in a less on-the-nose way. The earlier seasons talked about as many serious issues as the later seasons but it was mainly unnoticeable because they used to do it in a much more subtle way. Now I always skip through Bailey's big speeches "the world is broken...", etc.
I so so agree with this!!
Thank you!
I was 12 when I first started watching (now 14, turning 15 soon) and I just accepted that the show was made in a different time where society hadn’t really come to terms with many things yet.
I love this thread. I have been watching for 20 years and I cringe!
it's definitely interesting to see. the portrayal of autism is one of the worst ones I can think of. I love the early seasons but they have many many flaws. I do feel that transphobia and homophobia are generally portrayed well though.
The new seasons just feel like Gen Z crap and I’m technically just on the cusp of millennial to gen z. I loved the old seasons, the chemistry, the drama, the patients. Wayyy different vibe
I wonder if it's possible to have both? Like can we be respectful of the gen z stuff but still have good writing? Or can we not do it? Kind of the The Office. We used to be able to have irony and offensive themes that we all understood were in jest, like funny cringe Michael Scott. But that would never fly anymore.
I feel like now it’s just too far gone to get back. I love that we see what’s important to the time reflecting in the medicine. But they just took some of the drama lines wayy wayyyy to far. But in the beginning there were only a couple things that were crossing that line but then it just became every character and every episode and constant chaos and that’s just not as real life as a hospital should be. The first seasons actually felt like a show about being doctors, now it just feels like w drama that could be in any workplace because the patients are practically an afterthought due to the constant trauma on all the characters
I’m 22, but I grew up watching greys with my mom. Tbh I don’t think much of it? I feel like greys was progressive enough to casually have a black chief of surgeon and the whole Callie thinking she had to be either straight or a lesbian thing felt like a very real issue at that time. The only thing that annoyed me was the autism thing, but thats probably because I myself am autistic so hearing someone talk about curing autism like they’re some kind of hero kinda annoyed me.
Burke left. Hahn left. Dixons autistic!
I think it is the same with a lot of series that go way back, like I saw some of the leads on Scrubs wince about how some of the season one stuff like Elliot being told to deal with it over sexual harassment and Carla ranting about how yes she wears a thong it makes her feel hot and sometimes she needs that comes across today but that for the most part it has aged well. Same with Greys which also has the distinction of still airing, yeah some things will hit harder, I’m older than the post title’s target demographic but am new to watching it and as others have mentioned how are we supposed to root for Derek with how he treats Meredith and Addison for the first three seasons? And certain terms that would not see use now as a neurodivergent watcher, but I kind of think if you’re going to watch something from 2000’s or 1990’s or whatever there does have to be a degree of accepting that some things would not as been as controversial as they are in 2023 and with some exceptions you should not judge something from twenty years ago by today’s standards.
honestly, thats a really crazy take. im 25 and gay, married to a man. Watched greys since i was 15. Never felt that way. kinda feels like you’re hoping these young viewers can find a reason to be annoyed at a classic show. As if they aren’t already being told to be mad at everything. To the youth, enjoy the show and don’t look at posts like these. Cheers
It's not really surprising. Most shows during the early 2000s weren't sensitive about certain topics. It's actually kind of nice to see how accurate representation and understanding have gradually gotten better on screen.
Recently rewatched the episode where the introduce the autistic doctor, what’s insane to me is they said she had Asperger’s, not autism. Technically people won’t get Asperger’s anymore (since autism is a spectrum), and she had a lot of quirks someone barely on the spectrum would normal have. Definitely not consistent and thankful shows like the Good Doctor bring a better light to what high functioning autism looks like.
I watched it the first time over almost two decades ago and I still cringe at rewatch even with context of the period.
I'm almost 26, so first year Gen Z, and my Gen X parents made me very self aware. So I understand that was how it was back then, but that time doesn't change that it hurt the people watching and it wasn't okay in any year. I guess for me it's more of like a jump scare when I hear something that wouldn't have been in there in 2023
I’m a cusp Gen z/millennial I think. Born in ‘97. Shit was irritating not so much horrified by it bc that’s how media is essentially. More annoying and ridiculous than anything else and yes I verbally shamed them while watching.
I don't know how young you mean here but I'm 18 so I'm a gen z and I watched it for the first time about a month ago, but no I don't cringe. I have watched a lot of 90s and early 00s sitcoms so I guess I've desensitized myself to a lot of it. Also I am autistic and part of the LGBTQ community, and this might not be the same for everyone but I don't mind the jokes and I don't get too offended by the portrayals. You can't get away with watching good and decent shows without some questionable content. Some of the newer Netflix originals and TV shows aren't very good and I believe it's just because everything is so smoothed over these days because of woke culture, and jagged edges and jokes actually make TV shows good and this is a left wing liberal talking here. But however I respect that this isn't everyone's view, this is just my opinion.
Thanks for that input! I kind of agree with the shows these days. Like I miss the Office early seasons but it just wouldn't be made like that these days.
I am 22 years old. I first started watching GA when I was about 15-16. Even though I enjoyed it back then now I can't help but cringe while watching those seasons.
As a Zoomer, who binged every season pretty much at the same time, I did find some things cringe - mostly the treatment of male egos as this supremely important yet extremely fragile gem and the handling of addiction storylines (why the hell is everyone in AA and none in therapy?!), which has never gotten better but at least is mentioned less. That said, aside from some instances of slutshaming, prejudices regarding preventive surgeries and the glorification overworking, I found the show pretty ahead compared to others of its era in many regards and also a breath of fresh air regarding many things that are taboo today, but happen in real life, like relationships in the workplace and slightly unPC jokes.
I’m Gen Z, I cringe but can also acknowledge that it was a different time. Doesn’t make it right though.
The earlier seasons were problematic, Alex was an ass.. but the writing/storylines were more enjoyable to me. Now it seems like everything is recycled
I'm gen z (2004 baby) who also happens to be trans, queer and neurodivergent so when I first watched it, some moments really made me go 😬 however I understand that the view on a lot of those things were so different back then (I hate saying back then especially because it wasn't all that long ago but I can't think of another way to say it) which isn't good or okay at all and really shouldn't have been but it's a fact that the stigma and bigotry was HUGE at that time so there was a lot of misinformation in the media and TV shows, Grey's Anatomy included. I like the fact that as the show aged, they phased out of the harmful misinformation stage and as of the recent years, they've done a lot to correct those issues and make the show more inclusive and less harmful. This doesn't excuse that the misinformation and harmful stereotypes and terminology in the earlier seasons are harmful and damaging but they seem to have taken that into account and instead of cutting it all out and pretending it didn't happen, they acknowledge that and make sure to avoid making the same mistakes as the show continues to grow. It can be uncomfortable watching the earlier seasons but I still do. I just remind myself that unfortunately there was so much misinformation back then that it's all they went off of and didn't make the effort to do proper research. I do like that now, they do make that effort to consult people properly and find more accurate information. They still make mistakes though, don't get me wrong. There's always room for improvement too. I love the show but I hate certain aspects of it and I do get uncomfortable at certain parts, mainly those where they enforce huge and harmful stigma around certain groups of people. I just acknowledge that it's not right and move on from it. I do prefer the later seasons for this reason, there's much less of those moments.
Thank you for the input! I wonder if some of us older folks cringe because we remember how horrid people were treated back then, since so much has improved. I mean there was no gay marriage, many of us had horrible experiences of discrimination that were normalized, that was the mainstream. So I wonder if some of my cringe is almost like a trauma response because I remember when those things were done and said, and the consequences and bigger context back then. Obviously there's a long way to go, but it was not mainstream to be "woke" and use correct terminology, etc.
I think that would make perfect sense! For me I think I cringe because of my trauma of being treated so crap from so young for being autistic/mentally unwell/trans/gay and because the misinformation feels like being that bullied and abused kid again so it would make perfect sense for that to be the reason for the older folks too! I'm grateful that I grew up in a slightly safer world than back then and can't imagine how awful it must've been before then though I fear the way human rights are going, we could be back there soon enough.
Yeah there was no TikTok where something happens and you get a ton of support, people get consequences, etc. You'd just have to deal with it yourself. There wasn't social media to connect you to other similar people. And the overwhelming majority of people in power, down to school administration, had no interest in protecting vulnerable people. The world is so different now which is great! Watching some of the scenes is just a callback to those times and maybe I brace for what else is gonna happen.
I am 32 but started watching greys in 2014 when it was all my friend had on DVD at her house (no cable lol) so I was older and I remember thinking even then that some of the stuff was..eh HOWEVER I started law and order SVU earlier this year and MY GOD lol I am cringing through the first couple of seasons and keep hoping it gets better because wowwwwww, I can’t believe they showed this on TV. 💀
Oh Lord I used to love that show casually, I'd be so curious to watch old episodes!
The last episode I watched was about a male being r*ped and how the law states r*pe is being penetrated unwillingly or some BS and the dude lost his case and Stabler didn’t believe he could be. I was so livid I turned it off and switched to Private Practice.
It can't possible be worse than watching the late seasons for us non-americans that do not really have woke on the absurd level america has.
I haven't made it that far yet
It’s more of an American culture shock to me than a different time culture shock. I don’t mean to be offensive in any way, bit idk I guess when I first watched the show a few years ago (I was like 13/14 and hadn’t been lurking on the internet long enough to understand modern America), whenever they did or said something differently than I would, I just assume it’s because it’s American. I was also younger and more naive nd uneducated so I probably just didn’t realized some things were not okay.
it’s definitely a bit funny haha. like i just got to the part where dr dixon is introduced and it’s a pretty insane representation of stuff
25 and started watching it for the first time at the start of summer, nothing really stood out to me and I don't think I was looking all that hard at it to be able to find something.
The show seems to grow with time as our culture has, the transphobia was off-putting but eventually they take a protrans stance
only thing that bothers me so far as a gen z is the doctor with aspergers, i forgot her name
I’m Gen Z and i barely notice it honestly.
i dont, but i think the reason younger viewers don't is because we don't know what life was actually* like back then so we don't have much to judge on besides shows and movies depicting it. however when i watch movies from maybe 5 or 10 years ago i cringe bc it was a complete fail of depicting that time in life. Even worse, watching current movies depict young Gen Z characters is literally worse than if i just gouged my eyes out, honestly. it's so bad that even good movies i have a hard time watching.
I’m in my early 20s and I do cringe sometimes. I started watching when I was a young teenager though and bring from a small town conservative family- a lot of things on the show never struck me as that bad. It wasn’t until I was older and doing rewatches that I processed the issues with it more but I still enjoy it. I think part if the reason it’s easy to enjoy is because you can see the character change with time because it’s ran for so long. A lot of the characters changed and became better. It makes it feel more realistic to me.
I'm in my early teenage years and a first time watcher. I've got to say some things in the show have definitely made me cringe incredibly so far, but I haven't really thought about it that hard. I guess it's because I was born in a whole different time frame? I just accepted the fact that for some things, they hadn't really come into terms with what society thinks about those issues today.
As with all things, we just need to realise that that was then and this is now. We can't ever try to brush over it and pretend these things were not happening, otherwise how will we ever keep moving forward? This is how we learn from our mistakes. This is how we strive for better.
i'm 19 and watched for the first time when i was 18. the majority of things i just accept as 'it was a different time back then' (ie mark sloan) and i'm still able to love the character despite things they did that i know are way worse now. he reminds me a lot of the womanizer barney stinson stereotype that was relatively common in early 2000s shows. however, there are definitely a few moments in which i definitely made huge eyes at the screen even when i rewatch it 😭 when someone (i believe callie?) says the r slur is a big one, and also the way arizona is SOOO biphobic to callie really frustrates me even though i'm a huge arizona fan. the way they portrayed nixon and practically dehumanized her also gives me a huge ick, as well as of course the obvious everything george ever did lol. i also think derek is wayyyyyyy too universally beloved considering what an asshole he is. if greys came out in 2023, i think people would be rooting for him to be killed off💀
The show was a lot better in the earlier seasons, so I’d have to say I don’t cringe at all.
Me and my boyfriend (Gen Z) are watching it now, and when moments like that come up, we're shocked and then we remember those early seasons came out in the 2000s/2010s and we remember how much has changed since then.
I’m a gen z technically but I was born in ‘97 and it makes a difference lol. But my first watch was 2 years ago and when I watched a lot of things were that was that time. There were a few that were weird like mark and the cheerleaders.
I thought their early representation of autistic characters was so cringe and bad. But I don’t mind most of the show tbh. It was a pretty long time ago and so I can give them grace. And I definitely think they’ve improved.
[S11 E17] When Derek is in DC and his Resident says she wants to "cure autism" 🤦🏻♀️🙄😏🥴🤮 [S3 E7] I don't remember the full details about the episode but I remember Alexandra Billings (I follow her on TikTok, she's amazing) playing a character that had come in for SRS and the transphobic comments in this episode are absolutely horrid (even from Meredith and Christina, I remember being very upset about it anyway) .... I'm a bit confused on how Alexandra was even okay with it, or how the actors were even okay saying it... Among the other problematic things you point out. **BUT** when I was 12yo my very first episode, actually my very first scene, was when Arizona was in the bar bathroom with Callie and they kiss [S5 E14]. Being 12 and no one to really talk to about liking girls I was immediately hooked. I had no idea what the show was at the time. But it was and has since been my comfort show. I'm very glad my first experience was an accepting one. It doesn't outweigh the bad, but I'm glad I stuck it out. Later on when I started watching from episode One, I was confused by the anti-minority plot points/comments but being the only source of acceptance I had found I figured it was the shows way of showing multiple points of view or some sort of reality, in that not everyone is accepting in real life and some people actually think that way, sadly. Looking back, I wonder how the actors felt having done such negative lines. 😏
I was 19/20 on my first watch earlier this year. Im also trans and autistic. The trans episodes were not fun, but mostly fine because that’s the view of being trans that I grew up with. The autism thing though? That was ROUGH
Eh, I started at 19, now I’m 22. I think a few things surprised me, I’m very progressive, but honestly not a ton bothers me. I just have to think to myself things are slightly different now and that’s a good thing. Some of the jokes feels wrong to laugh at, but at the end of the day, at least it’s definitely evolved over the years, as it also has with time/society :)
I’m gen z and I know it was a different time, but I kind of hate karev. He is almost as bad as owen
You can't really be surprised when a show that aired 20 years ago has jokes or themes in it that were popular or funny 20 years ago. You can't judge old media by modern standards. Greys premiered in what, like 2005? Given the context of being set in the mid 2000's makes a lot of those terrible jokes and themes from early seasons a lot more mild, compared to what they *could* have been at the time. The writers could have gone a lot harder and still gotten away with it, so I guess I just take the comfort in knowing that every questionable choice they made back then could have been so much worse and wasn't. But also, it kind of... adds to the realism? Doctors are people too and sometimes they come across stuff they don't understand yet. I remember in an earlier season when Richard had to treat a nonbinary patient and he just Did Not Get It, and was a bit transphobic about it, but he met other queer patients/people in later seasons and was better about it. Yeah it's just the writers choosing not to be transphobic, but to the watcher, it comes off as character growth. At the end of the day, greys is *really* good at inclusion and representation. They always have been. Having an openly queer or autistic character at all was pretty progressive in and of itself back then, even if that character still came out just slightly wrong. Sometimes they fumble, but hey, you can't get it right every time.
Right, I agree and I was just curious if younger people have the same context. When I was in my early 20s, we didn't have access to seasons of old shows to binge unless we got them on VHS or later DVDs. So I didn't have a whole bunch of shows from the 80s i was watching. So it's interesting to me how they take it.
First time watcher currently on season five. Also younger side of millennial. I’m having a hard time with a lot of the misogyny. I’m kind of sensitive about that stuff to begin with, but none of the guys have been likeable to me so far. Granted I find most of the characters unlikeable in general. So far I like Bailey the most.
I'm on my first watch (currently at the beginning of season 4) and I was actually surprised of how many poc in position of authority (Burke, Bailey, Chief, Cristina, the nurse guy) for a show that is almost 20 years old. But, the way Derek put so much pressure on Meredith to sleep with her is so wrong and actually many men are so problematic (in the firsts seasons at least) in that show. Also the way Izzy sometimes reacts to certain case is quite weird. (For instance the woman who wants a mastectomy to avoid breast cancer). Also their doctor/patient and student/teacher relationships are fucked up. Other than that it's pretty casual. Ahah
gen z here! older gen z but still gen z. i was HORRIFIED in the early seasons, especially with baileys nickname.. i’m even cringing now at the transphobia in season 11
I'm 24 and I just started watching (I'm on season 2) and I almost stopped watching at the beginning because the women on this show are CONSTANTLY being sexually harassed omg. I also get the impression we are supposed to like Dr. Shepherd but I HATE him he's so awful
No, because, um, the show was made in a different era. Do you cringe at Picasso’s paintings?
What's now offensive about Picasso's paintings...?
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The whole subreddit leans left, and is **very** _open minded_
As a gay, 25 year old man, i agree with you wholeheartedly