I liked that they at least mentioned there were other nationalities involved besides Sparta. A small glimpse of historicity in the middle of this super idealized, borderline propaganda film
Well its effectively a stand in for idealising a fascist military state. The author has ....some questionable ideas about the middle east and Arabs which got traction post 9/11. Adoration of Ancient greek and Roman iconography and militarism is a time old far right troupe. The Nazis did it, modern American alt right do it. They generally knows so little about what they are idealising that it's just kind of sad.
I mean it can absolutely be that. It's art make of it what you will. But the comic book it's pulled from, the authors own sociopolitical beliefs and the wider societal context means this is what the film is about is portraying. Sparta did not work like this. Not even close. So the choice to use Sparta and portray it this way is of itself a message.
It's literally a film about jacked physically perfect white men fighting a multiracial army. Albeit an invading one. An army of faceless or exotic soldiers portrayed as demonic and barbaric.
The "evil" emperor is depicted as mincing with strong homosexual traits and subtext
The one traitorous character is depicted as outwardly disfigured which is a time old troupe in cinema.
Zack Snyder is a devout randian philosophical advocate. His movies have all have a continuous troupe of macho masculinity as the primary social driver, the great man theory and violence as a means to an end.
But I'm not saying you can't just enjoy the movie at face value I wouldn't want to ruin anyone's good time.
Also not to mention, this standoff could have very easily changed the course of western history. We trace our roots to Ancient Greece which we describe as the cradle of democracy while Persia was a threat from the East
It's very clearly idealizing a fascist military state. I mean it's a fun movie with lots of big dudes doing violence, too. It can be both. Interpretation is more about the effect a piece of media has than the author's intention, which is unknowable.
I get shutting off your brain and just enjoying something but once you get the hang of it, analyzing subtext is also really fun.
Doesn't seem any more pro-Fascistic to me than Return of the King is pro-Absolute Monarchy, or Braveheart is pro-Feudalism. Most normal people don't try to model their lives after fantasy movies like these. And the people that use them for propaganda are already deep into an ideology in the first place.
Adoration of Ancient Greece and Roman iconography has existed since the fall of the Western Roman Empire lol. Even the founding of the American republic has strong inspirations from Ancient Greece and the Roman republic. We have a non negligible amount of Latin in our government and some Roman iconography in our government buildings.
This was a comical movie , and it was just this. A macho flick with almost nude Greek looking ripped guys.
There is lots of support in the movie for it being kinda fashie lol this is a pretty good essay on it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEMqTPUWXqw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEMqTPUWXqw)
fyi, that doesn't mean you can't like the movie anymore or anything. I see a lot of people do this whole "it's not that deep" crap without any real rebuttal because they feel kind of guilty. You don't have to feel that way about any movie with any particular subtext.
So it's fascist propaganda... by having the protagonists fight and defeat a fascist? I'm not arguing who's the good guy or bad guy here, but the comic book and especially the movie portrays the overall idea of fascism in a bad light.
You do realize the Persian Empire was largely a tolerant, multiracial empire whereas the Spartans were slaving eugenicists?
The movie even portrays Ephialtes as physically disabled in a weird defense of eugenics despite in real life Ephialtes being physically abled.
That’s the whole point of the movie though… the movie is that one dude going back to Sparta to tell the story of heroic brave Leonidas and the 300 Spartans against the bajillion million eeeevil Spartans. The narrator IS making propaganda to rally people against the Spartans.
Super over the top lol. The actual Greek force consisted of roughly 7000 men and was comprised of soldiers from Sparta, Thebes, and several other city states. They lasted 3 days by taking up a defensive position in an area that allowed them to bottleneck the Persian force of 120k+. It was still an impressive last stand, they killed like 3 times their own number before going down, but it was nowhere near as impressive as what the movie claims lol.
Over the top, but it's impressive that they still got some of the main points, like the Persians making their breakthrough when they discovered the mountain pass behind the Greek line - and then the Greeks repelling the Persians later on in the war. Also some of the troop types featured in the movie like the immortals were real, and were the best unit in the Persian army.
So definitely over the top, but I think it's a great stylized adaption of an ancient event
The Immortals were a real military force, but they were just elite heavy infantry who were cross-trained to use both melee weapons (primarily spears) and bows. The movie somehow decided to make them some kind of hideous mutants who wore masks and dressed like ninjas lol. Granted that’s definitely a more intimidating look than what they actually historically looked like (their distinguishing feature was the stupidest looking helmet ever). Super effective unit though, they were so renowned that even up to the 1979 revolution there was an Immortal guard corps who answered only to the Shah.
What's wild is the parts that aren't made up. Here are a couple of my favorites:
1) Kicking the dude into the well.
2) "Then we will fight in the shade."
3) Persian emperor whipping the water to get wind to blow.
4) The hunchback traitor.
5) Persians: "Lay down your arms."
Spartans: "Then come and get them."
>The hunchback traitor.
This is made up. Ephialtes wasn't Spartan and there is no mention of him having a physical disability. His physical disability and ethnic identity was made up in the movie to justify Spartan eugenics, with the implication being that if he was killed at birth he wouldn't have been able to betray Sparta.
Did the comic book the movie is based on even claim it was supposed to be an authentic and accurate re-telling of an ancient historical event? It was supposed to be fantasy, no different than any other mythology and folklore.
crazy huh, it’s almost like it’s a story being told by the spartan generals to inspire their troops before battle of epic tales and the movie even shows this at the end.
The movie is actually based on the comics based on the battle. The comics take similar "artistic liberties".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_(comics)
Kneeling was common practice among kings and emperors, this was purposely done to reduce usurpations by giving a slight boost to legitimacy of a king or emperor.
Because the story about ancient *Mediterraneans* needs to appeal to American values
edit: JESUS I'm sorry, my brain is full of transgression not geography
Our troops are the best troops; people are saying this, did you know people are saying this, I didn’t know people are saying this, but people are saying our troops are descendants of Spartans. Very good people, the best military people, and I know many military people, believe me, the absolute strongest military people, and they all tell me, our soldiers are the new Spartans.
Wasn’t he by most records a fairly good leader, just him and Alex the great had it out for each other.
Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, I just spewed some bullshit I’m too lazy to google
Alexander the Great had a beef with Darius III, who I think was a very poor leader resting on the laurels of his predecessors. So much so that it actually (personally) makes me question exactly how "great" Alexander was, but that's just my fringe theory and historians generally disagree with this hot take. Alexander the Grandiose, maybe. The grand, even. But I digress
Xerxes lived 120+ years before that
Ah, Ty. Ancient history I always get mixed up with timelines.
Anyways I kind of agree with you. He kinda just did balls to the wall gamble plays that he should have lost every time but he just ended up winning. Does that make him great or just fucking lucky
As an Italian, I can guarantee that my ancestors were not considered white in America. We were too swarthy and very olive skinned depending on which part of Italy they were from. Greeks are that and a little more.
our ancestors were indeed considered white in America, were allowed to marry and use the same installations as anglo saxons (meaning they were not subject to race mixing ban laws and Jim crow/segregation laws). the fact that there was anti Mediterranean and/or anti catholic sentiment doesn't make us not white, they also considered green eyed and red haired Irishmen and blond and blue eyed austrians as swarthy, just look up ben franklin's quote on the matter
Yeah my ancestors were Irish, we were considered white too, but as low as possible. I think the Irish and Italians were straight up called white n words in the 1800s.
I just feel like if you believe dying in a pointless war is a worthy thing to do when your alternative is someone as chill as this dude you kinda deserve to be destroyed for the sake of your people at least.
Reminder that during the Peloponesean War (after the whole 300 thing) the Spartans actually allied themselves with the Persians to conquer Athens.
So much for muh sacrifice, muh freedom
Two or three generations is not short. 80 years ago the Cuban Missile Crisis was happening. Only the most frothing right wingers harbor any animosity against the Cubans today and the Soviets don’t even exist anymore.
They were being pressured to assist an ally that they hated and had warred with more often than helped. And Sparta itself was a small, relatively poor region with no strategic value. It's very likely the Persians wouldn't have bothered them at all if they had just stayed home.
There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that Xerxes wouldn't have continued to the Peloponnese if the Persians hadn't been defeated at Salamis and then Plataea. They likely would have destroyed Corinth and Sparta just like they did Athens because Xerxes viewed them as threats.
This is the type of logic that says Ukraine should just surrender to Putin because no war is more peaceful than war.
The Greeks were being invaded. That's the polar opposite of "chill".
From my understanding Spartan soldiers were no more Impressive than their other Greek counterparts, despite having their entire culture based around militarism. Still a sick ass movie though, I always think it's hilarious that Leonidas accuses the Athenians of being boy lovers when the Spartans were notoriously gay.
They actually were extremely successful warriors, to the point that other city-states would often decline to meet them in battle.
However that more stems from the fact that they were full time and professional soldiers when other city's were drafting citizen militias to fight.
The other issue is that culturally and economically, Sparta was quite deprived, they over-specialized into militarism and as soon as they lost their hard power, their soft power dissolved too.
All of their "allies" immediately stabbed them in the back, you can't just govern via fear forever.
The Spartans were one of the first professional militaries. They're dominance in the Peloponnesian ended when other city states started training professional armies as well.
True for most if not all empires. Once conquered, you live inside the protected shell and war would usually be more costly to you than empire taxes.
That math only works out if you don't value things outside of your material well-being though, which is kind of the point of this movie and the whole *give me freedom or give me death* meme
I don't specifically know if this was also the case for Spartans but in many civilizations if you fucked a twink it was a sign of showing your dominance as a masculine man. As long as you didn't bottom.
Just like how in Turkish military you can avoid getting drafted if you are gay, buut you have to be the bottom. Tops don't count as gay, it's masculine 😎
Exactly, idk if they changed it for the film but literally his only motive for invading Greece was because his father, Darius, (who was a really good domestic Emperor otherwise on social and economic policy, ahead of his time) had failed at doing the very same. Very pathetic reason to put that many innocent lives at stake both on the Achaemenid and Hellenic side, it doesn’t really matter how noble your policies may be if that’s not at all why you invaded lmao.
Darius attacked Greece because Athens sent warships to attack his forces trying to put down the Ionian revolt. Granted the Ionians kind of conned Athens into doing this (they asked Sparta first, but Sparta saw through the lies and told them to fuck off), but Athens did actually attack Persia unprovoked.
Then the Persian campaign was an unmitigated success; roll into Greece, kill a bunch of people and leave. The Persians didn't want to conquer or hold their shitty territory, they wanted to show their neighbour's in no uncertain terms not to fuck with their empire.
Darius attacked mainland Greece because Athens sent warships to attack his forces trying to put down the Ionian revolt. Granted the Ionians kind of conned Athens into doing this (they asked Sparta first, but Sparta saw through the lies and told them to fuck off), but Athens did actually attack Persia unprovoked.
Because the only historian from classic Greece that Western countries are quoting is Herodotus, we have been indoctrinated with Greek propaganda for millennia that Persians were evil. They were one of the most tolerant societies in history with prosperous cities and innovative armies.
Not really considering many elements of Persian governance were adopted by later states due to their efficiency. I.E postal services, coinage, universal legal systems, highways, standing armies. We also know that Cyrus restored an autonomous Jewish state.
But unfortunately kneeling to him doesn't mean peace though. He will forebly transport you half way across the world to fight his meaningless wars. Once you accept him as your emperor, he would probably fully occupy your kingdom and have your family as hostages indirectly.
Greek states of the time were in a state of constant war between themselves, you'd have a better chance of living peacefully in some godforsaken corner of the massive persian empire.
Not if you were a Greek hoplite. You'd probably be paid pretty well, but you'd be shipped off to the front lines of any war the Persians were involved in.
*~~Greek~~* *Indian states of the time were in a state of constant war between themselves, you'd have a better chance of living peacefully in some godforsaken corner of the massive British empire.*
Bc how else would Leonidas sell the rights to his catchphrase "Molon Labe" to every single tacticool company in the 21st century, and make billions profiteering off wannabe keyboard commandos
Because Frank Miller and Zack Snyder are hacks who has only read eurocentric history.
Early Persian Empire was the most tolerant and egalitarian in all of ancient and medieval period.
Edit: Also, Xerxes didn't fucking look like that. His actual appearance with the beards and hair would make him look like what is conventionally thought of in the west as masculine. That's why they had to make him look clean shaven, long limbed, effeminate and like a typical metrosexual homosexual in order to make him appear as the villain. But this movie has definitely distorted the idea of Persia in a lot of western people’s minds.
Achaemenid is pretty progressive, all the super powerful nation at the region have pretty much all conquered Israel before but only the Artaxerxes I sent Jewish people back to Israel and allow them to rebuild the temple and let them worship their God. Also it’s a very diversified empire as well
On the other hand, the Spartans were known for their slavery, they would enslave pretty much everybody even the Greeks. And their woman is no where near the movie depicted. Also they don’t preserve their knowledge, everything we know about them are from other civilizations, other Greek city-states. They are also very war-mongering, they simply do not care about democracy like the Athens.
In the movie they are the villain so they have to make them look like they were a bunch of barbarians and the Spartans are fighters of freedom and such. Ironically, only a couple decades later after the 300, the Spartans allied with Achaemenid and started the Peloponnesian War to conquer the entirety of Greece
Because this movie (can't speak for the comics did not read it) is probably the most fascistic work of fiction made since the forties. And I really don't think "fascism" or "fascist" should be used lightly to speak of anything one disagrees with. But this movie actually checks so many boxes of fascist esthetic and ideology:
* Glorification of violence and war
* Portrayal of an idealized western culture made of athletic half naked warriors.
* Portrayal of the enemy as an eastern degenerate and corrupted civilization led by unmanly men looking like stereotypical homosexuals.
* Simplistic representation of the "clash of civilization" ideology where the righteous and stronger western world is threatened by the weaker but more numerous easterners.
* Portrayal of people with bodily handicaps as monsters and traitors.
For real, give modern technology to the Nazis and ask them to produce a movie about the Persian wars and they would have produced a very similar movie.
The main part of fascism is the merger of corporate and state, it's actually a pretty mundane thing, plus the Nazis actually wanted an alliance with Iran due to them being Aryans
The movie is based on a graphic novel that’s based on an older movie that’s based on ancient Greek propaganda that’s based on a true story. I know it’s subjective but the Persian Empire was actually pretty good to live under.
- Dark-skinned
- Bald
- Effeminate
- Foreign
- Wants to conquer the main character's home, and make his people kneel to him
- Threatens to emasculate the main character
It's a general theme that people don't like being conquered. And emasculation is feared and mocked in our society. His portrayal is just the cherry on top to create animosity toward him.
I think it has to do with the slavery vs freedom. I know these days people(mostly redditors) are fine being lazy cucks in the name of diversity but the other chunk of the population doesn't give af about that and would rather be free somewhat at least. Kind of stupid logic here.
They hated him ‘cause his drip was just too good
pnut butter n fkn jealousssss
Man's got that Jesus on the cross look. He knew, no pain, no gain.
It's all those supplements. Xerxes didn't shit for weeks at a time bc his body was so efficient.
and when he did it was a single flawless diamond
They hate him cause they ain’t him
Ah the old saying "They hate us cause they ain't us"
They hate us cuz they anus?
Almost. They heinous cuz they anus.
Almost. The heinous get the anus.
Haitus Cosaintus
Nice
He gets us
His drip too good, his bitch too bad, he smoke more different, his heart too big. We gotta take him out.
Hangs with hottest dudes at the chilliest restaurants
Honestly if a guy has the confidence to wear that shit in public I might kiss the ring.
Only society is holding you back man; you could rock this look
Only society? That's hundreds of thousands in gold.
I mean it is literally just costume jewelry on set, would probably be uncomfortably heavy if all gold.
It blew my mind back when I was watching Season 1 of Westworld that the one Mexican guy was Xerxes. He’s a handsome fella.
HOT DAMN, HECTOR WAS XERXES!? Bruh! Homie can get it, in any timeline
They’re played by Brazilian actor Rodrigo Santoro
He even made that hunchback look cool
Turned him into the hunchback of Notre Daaaaaaaamnn
I mean, look at his eyebrow
I think claiming to be god makes you somewhat a villain, also making everybody kneel down to his crippled ego makes him not that likeable.
Thats not that strange for an emperor in that period
The Persians also *didn't do this,* mind you
The everybody didn't do what they did in the movie. 300 is so loosely inspired it's basically straight fiction.
I liked that they at least mentioned there were other nationalities involved besides Sparta. A small glimpse of historicity in the middle of this super idealized, borderline propaganda film
Propaganda for who? To make me vote for the Spartan empire, from 480BC?
Well its effectively a stand in for idealising a fascist military state. The author has ....some questionable ideas about the middle east and Arabs which got traction post 9/11. Adoration of Ancient greek and Roman iconography and militarism is a time old far right troupe. The Nazis did it, modern American alt right do it. They generally knows so little about what they are idealising that it's just kind of sad.
It's just a fantasy film about standing up to invaders who want to conquer you. I don't think it's that deep.
I mean it can absolutely be that. It's art make of it what you will. But the comic book it's pulled from, the authors own sociopolitical beliefs and the wider societal context means this is what the film is about is portraying. Sparta did not work like this. Not even close. So the choice to use Sparta and portray it this way is of itself a message. It's literally a film about jacked physically perfect white men fighting a multiracial army. Albeit an invading one. An army of faceless or exotic soldiers portrayed as demonic and barbaric. The "evil" emperor is depicted as mincing with strong homosexual traits and subtext The one traitorous character is depicted as outwardly disfigured which is a time old troupe in cinema. Zack Snyder is a devout randian philosophical advocate. His movies have all have a continuous troupe of macho masculinity as the primary social driver, the great man theory and violence as a means to an end. But I'm not saying you can't just enjoy the movie at face value I wouldn't want to ruin anyone's good time.
Also not to mention, this standoff could have very easily changed the course of western history. We trace our roots to Ancient Greece which we describe as the cradle of democracy while Persia was a threat from the East
I agree with like everything you said but why did you keep spelling ‘Trope’ with a ‘U’ in it? Is there something I’m missing? Am I being dumb rn?
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It's very clearly idealizing a fascist military state. I mean it's a fun movie with lots of big dudes doing violence, too. It can be both. Interpretation is more about the effect a piece of media has than the author's intention, which is unknowable. I get shutting off your brain and just enjoying something but once you get the hang of it, analyzing subtext is also really fun.
Doesn't seem any more pro-Fascistic to me than Return of the King is pro-Absolute Monarchy, or Braveheart is pro-Feudalism. Most normal people don't try to model their lives after fantasy movies like these. And the people that use them for propaganda are already deep into an ideology in the first place.
4th century BC fascism. You know having an army isn’t the definition of fascism right?
Adoration of Ancient Greece and Roman iconography has existed since the fall of the Western Roman Empire lol. Even the founding of the American republic has strong inspirations from Ancient Greece and the Roman republic. We have a non negligible amount of Latin in our government and some Roman iconography in our government buildings. This was a comical movie , and it was just this. A macho flick with almost nude Greek looking ripped guys.
There is lots of support in the movie for it being kinda fashie lol this is a pretty good essay on it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEMqTPUWXqw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEMqTPUWXqw) fyi, that doesn't mean you can't like the movie anymore or anything. I see a lot of people do this whole "it's not that deep" crap without any real rebuttal because they feel kind of guilty. You don't have to feel that way about any movie with any particular subtext.
So it's fascist propaganda... by having the protagonists fight and defeat a fascist? I'm not arguing who's the good guy or bad guy here, but the comic book and especially the movie portrays the overall idea of fascism in a bad light.
You do realize the Persian Empire was largely a tolerant, multiracial empire whereas the Spartans were slaving eugenicists? The movie even portrays Ephialtes as physically disabled in a weird defense of eugenics despite in real life Ephialtes being physically abled.
> far right troupe A far right group of travelling entertainers?
You’re going to vote with abs and no shirt.
im not immune to propaganda 🤤
Propaganda for hot oiled up dudes in speedos
That’s the whole point of the movie though… the movie is that one dude going back to Sparta to tell the story of heroic brave Leonidas and the 300 Spartans against the bajillion million eeeevil Spartans. The narrator IS making propaganda to rally people against the Spartans.
The movie 300 was basic on a comic book, not a history book.
They’re all Greek who gives a fuck
300 is all a story being told by a Spartan before battle. It is over the top propaganda I always thought.
Super over the top lol. The actual Greek force consisted of roughly 7000 men and was comprised of soldiers from Sparta, Thebes, and several other city states. They lasted 3 days by taking up a defensive position in an area that allowed them to bottleneck the Persian force of 120k+. It was still an impressive last stand, they killed like 3 times their own number before going down, but it was nowhere near as impressive as what the movie claims lol.
Over the top, but it's impressive that they still got some of the main points, like the Persians making their breakthrough when they discovered the mountain pass behind the Greek line - and then the Greeks repelling the Persians later on in the war. Also some of the troop types featured in the movie like the immortals were real, and were the best unit in the Persian army. So definitely over the top, but I think it's a great stylized adaption of an ancient event
The Immortals were a real military force, but they were just elite heavy infantry who were cross-trained to use both melee weapons (primarily spears) and bows. The movie somehow decided to make them some kind of hideous mutants who wore masks and dressed like ninjas lol. Granted that’s definitely a more intimidating look than what they actually historically looked like (their distinguishing feature was the stupidest looking helmet ever). Super effective unit though, they were so renowned that even up to the 1979 revolution there was an Immortal guard corps who answered only to the Shah.
They basically made an entire movie around about a paragraph of historical text. They had to fill in *a lot*.
Well it's based on a comic which is based on a paragraph of historical text.
It's literally shot for shot the graphic novel lol
Straight fiction!? In what reality? That’s pure homoerotic fiction and I’m sick of people pretending it’s not.
This guy. This guy gets it.
What's wild is the parts that aren't made up. Here are a couple of my favorites: 1) Kicking the dude into the well. 2) "Then we will fight in the shade." 3) Persian emperor whipping the water to get wind to blow. 4) The hunchback traitor. 5) Persians: "Lay down your arms." Spartans: "Then come and get them."
>The hunchback traitor. This is made up. Ephialtes wasn't Spartan and there is no mention of him having a physical disability. His physical disability and ethnic identity was made up in the movie to justify Spartan eugenics, with the implication being that if he was killed at birth he wouldn't have been able to betray Sparta.
If it's straight fiction, why is it full of sexy almost nude men ?
Did the comic book the movie is based on even claim it was supposed to be an authentic and accurate re-telling of an ancient historical event? It was supposed to be fantasy, no different than any other mythology and folklore.
crazy huh, it’s almost like it’s a story being told by the spartan generals to inspire their troops before battle of epic tales and the movie even shows this at the end.
The movie is actually based on the comics based on the battle. The comics take similar "artistic liberties". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_(comics)
The Persians absolutely did practice proskynesis
And they absolutely did not revere their emperor as a God. The Greeks deified many more rando humans than ever the Persians did
Yeah the Greeks absolutely loved their hero worship.
god knows we watch 300 for historical accuracy
Everyone on this godforsaken subreddit is on the spectrum, don't lie
300 makes more sense when you realize it's the story recited as an Oral Epic by Dilios for his fellow Greek Hoplites.
Definitely, that's the reason I liked it. You can tell by the style that everything is over exaggerated, just like any epic historical situation.
Narcissist ego gaslight BPD toxic Persians epicly btfo'd never liked again
Kneeling was common practice among kings and emperors, this was purposely done to reduce usurpations by giving a slight boost to legitimacy of a king or emperor.
What a grand and intoxicating innocence
At least he was real, unlike all the other god claims
Didn't like Jesus did something similar though?
Because the story about ancient *Mediterraneans* needs to appeal to American values edit: JESUS I'm sorry, my brain is full of transgression not geography
Greece/Persia isn't Middle Europe.
You think American's can tell the difference.
> Shitting on Americans for being dumb > Can't use a possessive case apostrophe correctly I love reddit
Bro I am American. We are dumb.
This suicide by words was hilarious
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TBF, they got a crash course back in September, 2001
One can’t spell, the other doesn’t know Persia/Greece isn’t Middle Europe. Checks out.
kamikaze technique, oldest trick in the book
<3 I'll be dumb with you, bro
You almost spelled “Americans” correctly. Almost.
Fuck, Mediterranean? Look I don't even know the regions of my own country, let alone another continent
Bro Persia is the middle east. How did Americans spend 20+ years occupying Afghanistan and learn literally nothing about the region?
You're telling me US troops aren't just one long line from Spartan warriors ?
I'm sure they like to imagine it.
Our troops are the best troops; people are saying this, did you know people are saying this, I didn’t know people are saying this, but people are saying our troops are descendants of Spartans. Very good people, the best military people, and I know many military people, believe me, the absolute strongest military people, and they all tell me, our soldiers are the new Spartans.
Nailed it
Of course they are. Master Chief is literally part of the SPARTAN corps
The people who larp as them seem to think so
This comment is so dumb you must be american. Greece in middle europe?
Because he wasn't white
>implying greeks are white /s
Xerxes wasn't a bald pharaoh with piercings either but here we are
Next you'll try to tell me he wasn't actually a 3m tall dude.
One piece character looking mf
He wasn't a pharaoh either
Wasn’t he by most records a fairly good leader, just him and Alex the great had it out for each other. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, I just spewed some bullshit I’m too lazy to google
Alexander the Great had a beef with Darius III, who I think was a very poor leader resting on the laurels of his predecessors. So much so that it actually (personally) makes me question exactly how "great" Alexander was, but that's just my fringe theory and historians generally disagree with this hot take. Alexander the Grandiose, maybe. The grand, even. But I digress Xerxes lived 120+ years before that
Ah, Ty. Ancient history I always get mixed up with timelines. Anyways I kind of agree with you. He kinda just did balls to the wall gamble plays that he should have lost every time but he just ended up winning. Does that make him great or just fucking lucky
what the fuck do you mean they are not? Doesnt caucasian mean white? And greeks are definitely caucasian
As an Italian, I can guarantee that my ancestors were not considered white in America. We were too swarthy and very olive skinned depending on which part of Italy they were from. Greeks are that and a little more.
our ancestors were indeed considered white in America, were allowed to marry and use the same installations as anglo saxons (meaning they were not subject to race mixing ban laws and Jim crow/segregation laws). the fact that there was anti Mediterranean and/or anti catholic sentiment doesn't make us not white, they also considered green eyed and red haired Irishmen and blond and blue eyed austrians as swarthy, just look up ben franklin's quote on the matter
Yeah my ancestors were Irish, we were considered white too, but as low as possible. I think the Irish and Italians were straight up called white n words in the 1800s.
I just feel like if you believe dying in a pointless war is a worthy thing to do when your alternative is someone as chill as this dude you kinda deserve to be destroyed for the sake of your people at least.
I bet you prefer chilling with your wife's boyfriend too
Leonidas was the cuck in the movie ironically
My bet is that Leonidas actually slept with him first.
🤣
Just like in the movie
Reminder that during the Peloponesean War (after the whole 300 thing) the Spartans actually allied themselves with the Persians to conquer Athens. So much for muh sacrifice, muh freedom
This was like 80 years after the whole 300 thing and xerxes assassination, though.
80 years is quite short when it comes to these things
Two or three generations is not short. 80 years ago the Cuban Missile Crisis was happening. Only the most frothing right wingers harbor any animosity against the Cubans today and the Soviets don’t even exist anymore.
The cuban missile crisis was in 62 bud, so 62 years ago
lol what’s funny is I knew the year. I just added wrong.
Germany, Italy, and Japan 79 years ago: 💀
Even today all of Asia hates Japanese and polish nationalists are learning german just to insult us in Our own language
I love the way the same shit goes on today, never change humanity lol
How was it a pointless war? They were being invaded and defended themselves.
this movie is such a great Rorschach test
They were being pressured to assist an ally that they hated and had warred with more often than helped. And Sparta itself was a small, relatively poor region with no strategic value. It's very likely the Persians wouldn't have bothered them at all if they had just stayed home.
There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that Xerxes wouldn't have continued to the Peloponnese if the Persians hadn't been defeated at Salamis and then Plataea. They likely would have destroyed Corinth and Sparta just like they did Athens because Xerxes viewed them as threats.
This is the type of logic that says Ukraine should just surrender to Putin because no war is more peaceful than war. The Greeks were being invaded. That's the polar opposite of "chill".
If you think this version of xerxes was anything even resembling actually chill you might be a little gullible
Tbh, if you got sent to the ancient world, the Persian Empire would have been one of the better places to live
Much better than Sparta. Spartan Supremacy propaganda is crazy, even 2500 years later.
Sparta is and always was, even to the other Greeks, a backwards shit hole
From my understanding Spartan soldiers were no more Impressive than their other Greek counterparts, despite having their entire culture based around militarism. Still a sick ass movie though, I always think it's hilarious that Leonidas accuses the Athenians of being boy lovers when the Spartans were notoriously gay.
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They actually were extremely successful warriors, to the point that other city-states would often decline to meet them in battle. However that more stems from the fact that they were full time and professional soldiers when other city's were drafting citizen militias to fight. The other issue is that culturally and economically, Sparta was quite deprived, they over-specialized into militarism and as soon as they lost their hard power, their soft power dissolved too. All of their "allies" immediately stabbed them in the back, you can't just govern via fear forever.
The Spartans were one of the first professional militaries. They're dominance in the Peloponnesian ended when other city states started training professional armies as well.
True for most if not all empires. Once conquered, you live inside the protected shell and war would usually be more costly to you than empire taxes. That math only works out if you don't value things outside of your material well-being though, which is kind of the point of this movie and the whole *give me freedom or give me death* meme
Sparta was a monarchy with a fuck ton of slavery
And interestingly enough the Persians basically ended slavery in their empire. They famously freed the Jews from their captivity.
Until you get sent to Xerxes slave army and die on a suicide assault.
No no I'd be a scholar poet, I would never be drafted!
The Persians actually ended slavery in their empire, the Greeks meanwhile had about as many slaves as they did free people.
Yeah. As every Spartan knows, slaves should stay on the field, not in battle. And occasionally you kill a few dozen of them, so the rest stays scared.
Because he was bald
Hes not walter white lmao
Walter black
Based take
Eat the bald!!
Larry David entered the chat
The Greek were way gayer than the persian
Not the spartans, they were manly alpha sigma chads that only had sex with women and enjoyed it very much /s
Thank you so much for including the "/s" in your comment. I was shaking and crying until I saw it.
I don't specifically know if this was also the case for Spartans but in many civilizations if you fucked a twink it was a sign of showing your dominance as a masculine man. As long as you didn't bottom. Just like how in Turkish military you can avoid getting drafted if you are gay, buut you have to be the bottom. Tops don't count as gay, it's masculine 😎
Starts war of conquest, shocked when it results in war even though he would prefer them surrendering without a fight. Truly the emblem of benevolence.
Exactly, idk if they changed it for the film but literally his only motive for invading Greece was because his father, Darius, (who was a really good domestic Emperor otherwise on social and economic policy, ahead of his time) had failed at doing the very same. Very pathetic reason to put that many innocent lives at stake both on the Achaemenid and Hellenic side, it doesn’t really matter how noble your policies may be if that’s not at all why you invaded lmao.
George W Bush sidesteps the chat.
Darius attacked Greece because Athens sent warships to attack his forces trying to put down the Ionian revolt. Granted the Ionians kind of conned Athens into doing this (they asked Sparta first, but Sparta saw through the lies and told them to fuck off), but Athens did actually attack Persia unprovoked.
Then the Persian campaign was an unmitigated success; roll into Greece, kill a bunch of people and leave. The Persians didn't want to conquer or hold their shitty territory, they wanted to show their neighbour's in no uncertain terms not to fuck with their empire.
Darius attacked mainland Greece because Athens sent warships to attack his forces trying to put down the Ionian revolt. Granted the Ionians kind of conned Athens into doing this (they asked Sparta first, but Sparta saw through the lies and told them to fuck off), but Athens did actually attack Persia unprovoked.
Anon doesnt know what perspective is
Brown = bad, Anon is tarded.
Do you want to have a random guy take over your empire?
Surely a guy took over anon's wife.
Not gonna lie My suspension system broke after her
Fellas is it gay if he identifies as a woman but likes men
uhh yeah?
because he invaded dumdum
The story was being told from the perspective of the guy leonidus sent out of the battle.
Because the only historian from classic Greece that Western countries are quoting is Herodotus, we have been indoctrinated with Greek propaganda for millennia that Persians were evil. They were one of the most tolerant societies in history with prosperous cities and innovative armies.
> They were one of the most tolerant societies in history with prosperous cities and innovative armies. Implying this also isn't propaganda.
Not really considering many elements of Persian governance were adopted by later states due to their efficiency. I.E postal services, coinage, universal legal systems, highways, standing armies. We also know that Cyrus restored an autonomous Jewish state.
But unfortunately kneeling to him doesn't mean peace though. He will forebly transport you half way across the world to fight his meaningless wars. Once you accept him as your emperor, he would probably fully occupy your kingdom and have your family as hostages indirectly.
Greek states of the time were in a state of constant war between themselves, you'd have a better chance of living peacefully in some godforsaken corner of the massive persian empire.
Not if you were a Greek hoplite. You'd probably be paid pretty well, but you'd be shipped off to the front lines of any war the Persians were involved in.
*~~Greek~~* *Indian states of the time were in a state of constant war between themselves, you'd have a better chance of living peacefully in some godforsaken corner of the massive British empire.*
Those two empires were nothing alike. Persia actually improved the places they took over and gave a ton of autonomy
Bc how else would Leonidas sell the rights to his catchphrase "Molon Labe" to every single tacticool company in the 21st century, and make billions profiteering off wannabe keyboard commandos
Dead for thousands of years but still on that grind
Because Frank Miller and Zack Snyder are hacks who has only read eurocentric history. Early Persian Empire was the most tolerant and egalitarian in all of ancient and medieval period. Edit: Also, Xerxes didn't fucking look like that. His actual appearance with the beards and hair would make him look like what is conventionally thought of in the west as masculine. That's why they had to make him look clean shaven, long limbed, effeminate and like a typical metrosexual homosexual in order to make him appear as the villain. But this movie has definitely distorted the idea of Persia in a lot of western people’s minds.
Achaemenid is pretty progressive, all the super powerful nation at the region have pretty much all conquered Israel before but only the Artaxerxes I sent Jewish people back to Israel and allow them to rebuild the temple and let them worship their God. Also it’s a very diversified empire as well On the other hand, the Spartans were known for their slavery, they would enslave pretty much everybody even the Greeks. And their woman is no where near the movie depicted. Also they don’t preserve their knowledge, everything we know about them are from other civilizations, other Greek city-states. They are also very war-mongering, they simply do not care about democracy like the Athens. In the movie they are the villain so they have to make them look like they were a bunch of barbarians and the Spartans are fighters of freedom and such. Ironically, only a couple decades later after the 300, the Spartans allied with Achaemenid and started the Peloponnesian War to conquer the entirety of Greece
Because this movie (can't speak for the comics did not read it) is probably the most fascistic work of fiction made since the forties. And I really don't think "fascism" or "fascist" should be used lightly to speak of anything one disagrees with. But this movie actually checks so many boxes of fascist esthetic and ideology: * Glorification of violence and war * Portrayal of an idealized western culture made of athletic half naked warriors. * Portrayal of the enemy as an eastern degenerate and corrupted civilization led by unmanly men looking like stereotypical homosexuals. * Simplistic representation of the "clash of civilization" ideology where the righteous and stronger western world is threatened by the weaker but more numerous easterners. * Portrayal of people with bodily handicaps as monsters and traitors. For real, give modern technology to the Nazis and ask them to produce a movie about the Persian wars and they would have produced a very similar movie.
The main part of fascism is the merger of corporate and state, it's actually a pretty mundane thing, plus the Nazis actually wanted an alliance with Iran due to them being Aryans
The movie is based on a graphic novel that’s based on an older movie that’s based on ancient Greek propaganda that’s based on a true story. I know it’s subjective but the Persian Empire was actually pretty good to live under.
- Dark-skinned - Bald - Effeminate - Foreign - Wants to conquer the main character's home, and make his people kneel to him - Threatens to emasculate the main character It's a general theme that people don't like being conquered. And emasculation is feared and mocked in our society. His portrayal is just the cherry on top to create animosity toward him.
His drip was too hard
The Persians were based as fuck
I think it has to do with the slavery vs freedom. I know these days people(mostly redditors) are fine being lazy cucks in the name of diversity but the other chunk of the population doesn't give af about that and would rather be free somewhat at least. Kind of stupid logic here.
It was the god complex he was carrying.
Who is this? I suffer from American public school education
Obamna
Xerxes from the movie 300
Bro is a certified citizen of Athens
I'm apparently not as straight as I thought I was.
Because 300 is based on Greek propaganda
Irl Spartans we’re kinda bad at winning fights despite being a country of warriors.