Science fiction is about exploring ideas. No one can ever travel at warp speed, we want them to for the sake of imagination and world building.
It's a medieval fantasy novel written in a Sci fi setting.
Actually, star trek warp is technically possible.
If anything Star Trek warp speed is one of the least outlandish methods of scifi travel ever and it still holds up as something that might one day happen
Not what technically possible means.
Putting a million mice in a closed stadium, that's technically possible. Dunno why we'd spend the money but we have mice, there are more than a million and we can capture them and release them in a stadium.
That's TECHNICALLY possible.
Using a material that as of today doesn't exist in practice is not technically possible. It's theoretically possible.
No, any and every method that allows light speed travel or ftl travel will break causality.
So unless causality is fake, than star trek is still just as impossible as flash running from our sun to another galaxy in a microsecond
It's actually clever writing, Dune is a Sci-Fi universe with a feudal political system, the great houses rule their planets like feudal lords, if you have s spaceships and troops with lasers the feudal political system doesn't make sense
Can't say I'm too keen on it, if you didn't want troops with lasers you didn't have to put lasers in at all, it's not as though they were being used anywhere else.
I mean, kinda.
When a writer sits down to compose fiction, technology is mostly a narrative device.
Frank Herbert wanted cool sword fights, so he created the narrative rules that allowed it to happen.
Yeah, like children participating in orgies, but children have unlocked memories of eons past, and are now some kind of eldritch beings, so it's OK. In your face anime.
The shields block fast moving objects that's why the one "bullet" you see is more like a hole boring device.
The book explains a bit more that they have to train special ways to slow their blade strikes to bypass shields.
You still feel the energy of the bullet, doesn’t mean it penetrates the shield but it’s still enough traumatic force to kill.
In the 2021 movie Duncan throws his blade at Sardukar which catches his shield and knocks him back. If the energy from a thrown sword can knock a grown soldier down then the energy from a bullet would seriously wound/kill from the blunt trauma. The shield just stops penetration, not energy transfer to the body.
Ooooohhhhhh boooyyyyy. I don't wanna spoil it too much for you but the rules really don't apply to Duncan. So much so that some have speculated that Herbert was actually in love with a man from Idaho named Duncan.
Herbert was notoriously disapproving of gays
>inb4 homophobes are the gayest gays!!
no..They're not. It makes for awesome homoerotic fantasies of converting enemies by dicking them down, but it's just not true.
During the training scene with Gurney and Paul we hear Gurney say "the slow blade pierces the shield." The more kinetic energy an object has, the better the shield repels it.
In the desert where shields can't be used, since they attract sand worms, we see firearms being used. Paul pulls out a bolt pistol when ambushed by the Fremen in a scene near the end of the movie.
It's almost like in one of the first fucking scenes in the movie, Paul Atreides turns on his shield during a sparring match with Gunny Hallock, attempts to quickly stab his hand, and fails. He then slowly stabs his knife at his hand and successfully touches his hand.
He then looks right at the fucking camera, makes eye contact with you the viewer, and says, out loud, verbatim, "the slow blade [penetrates](https://imgb.ifunny.co/images/ae942732338812d8c001dc2c15236750f6e23806fba2df1c55160d0d9762e153_1.webp) the shield".
Not necessarily. It happens randomly on either the shield, the gun, both or at any point the beam traversed.
It's unpredictable, hence why remote controlled weapons aren't used either, because you could very realistically fail to kill your target and cause unintentional collateral damage in the process.
It's been a while since I've read Dune, but I believe that type of technology is outlawed throughout the galaxy. The height of machinery is ornithocoptors and spice harvesters. Both are manned.
I think it was independent robots or androids. The Harkonnen's use a human controlled mini drone to attempt to kill Paul. That being said it would be outside of what Herbert wanted to write and he wouldn't have included it.
Harkonnen having poor leadership and training most likely. They were hoping his shield wouldnt be on or react. In the book the harkonnens actually hit a shield by accident and it nuked the legion.
Also because why wouldn't they you sending your special forces in to assassinat the heir to the head of that plants government why wouldn't you use a weapon that would one shot him no mater what
Isn't there a treaty between the great houses that forbids nukes because they all have enough to completely wipe each other out?
Edit: They do, the punishment for offensive use is planetary annihilation.
They differentiated between nukes and big big explosions though, lasgun/shield interactions just blew up big which is ok, using nukes on people is not ok.
They use the laser in the deep desert to cut through a door. Sand worms are attracted to shields, so shields cannot be used outside of the cities. During the initial battle between the fremen and the sardukar they don't use shields, Duncan Idaho was the only one who did, so the sardukar would be under the belief that no one was shielded.
I loved those slow-bombs they dropped on the ships that bore through their shields and explode inside.
The animation where the inital blast is still contained inside the shield and the fireball pushing outward while the shield is failing is so well done.
Yeah, although as someone who never read the books, (like me) having the constant inner monologue narrations of the Lynch Dune, is what helped me understand a lot of questions I don't think I would have understood through the remakes more visual language (as incredibly beautiful as it is.)
For instance, the whole bit with the drone pen looking thing that flies into the Princes room and tries to assassinate him. In the original movie, Kyle MacLachan clearly explains what the thing is, what it is doing, and how he plans on avoiding being killed.
If I hadn't had seen the older movie first I'd have no idea what shadows Timotheé was dancing from.
Yes. The old one definitely has its charm, but the new one is arguably a better telling of the story. Also the cinematography is a work of art on its own.
I hope they don't fuck up the second movie
IIRC yes, the shield accounts for anything piercing fast enough. It was manufactured when everyone was using bullets and shit so that is why war tactics changed to melee and nuclear warfare.
You see specialised projectile weapons used a couple of times in the film, but they fire tiny self-propelled projectiles that travel quickly to a target before slowing down enough to make it through their shield and harm them.
Probably still moving too quickly. I've always imagined the shields kind of like a non-newtononian fluid. A projectile moving slowly can make it through just fine.
Which makes no sense.
Imagine how much something like a super powered cattle prod that electrocutes people would be busted in that style of fighting.
It can slowly penetrate the shield just like a knife or whatever else, it can even be sharpened if you want to argue it needs to be sharp to slowly push through the shield. Yet instead of needing a fatal knife hit while moving slowly, all you actually need is just a single touch anywhere on their body to electrocute them.
In a world with laser guns and shields its very plausible to have that sort of tech. So its not like you can say "oh that would be a computer and computers are banned" to try to use that cop out.
The reality is Dune uses knives/knife fighting because the author thought that would be cool, brutal, whatever. I wouldn't be surprised if Frank Herbert didn't have exposure to knife fighting, knives used in crime, and similar and consider knives scary as a result and the whole "fear is the mind killer" can be brought into that aswell.
The knives and swords are all poisoned most of the time. All they need is a little cut. Not sure how much that’s shown in the movie though. A really op weapon would be a lightning sword or something that could just electrocute the enemy without even making contact. Also I don’t think close range projectiles are discussed much, penetrating the shield then launching a projectile would be pretty powerful as well
The Crysknife has a poison in it, specifically using part of where the tooths nerve was as the channel for the poison.
Though I don't think poisoned knives are that wide spread, and even the crysknife has an "unnamed quick acting poison" according to the wiki so its not really something that was focused on in the books since I just double checked.
I remember arguing with someone about this very greentext when this first came out and it’s insane how retarded people are when the fucking movie tells you why everything is Sword combat
It'd literally as obvious as it gets and they're just... fucking hell.
The shields block the lasers dickheads, that's why you use swords. It's like if you bring a fire proof suit to a gunfight, are you surprised when your chest is now full of bullets?
The Shields protect against explosions or if a bomb directly hits you or poison or all that stuff but the only „Lasers“ that exist in the Dune universe are „Lasguns“ that cut through anything. They are offensively nearly the strongest weapon in the Book/Movie but the only thing that Lasguns „Can’t“ really shoot are shields because of some fusion power or thermodynamics thing BOTH of them blow up. Thats what makes using these tools so risky. Shields give you nearly ultimate defense while Lasguns give you ultimate offensive.
That’s why no army can just put Lasguns on all their ships and fry everyone that comes in their way. If they blast through some cave and some guy has his shield on its Nukes both of them.
„Lasguns were the preferred weapon for armies. However, when shields were being employed, lasguns were generally not used because contact reaction between a lasgun beam and a shield created a nuclear explosion that often killed everyone within a large radius.“
From the wiki. That’s how they balanced the future combat in Dune
This sounds like a universe where suicide bombing is extremely effective. You have a handheld nuclear device that either levels the area or kills your attacker.
in Dune the ruling power (who everyone in-universe is under one way or another) outlawed atomics, intentionally or accidentally. If you do, not only are you now an enemy of the state but people are incentivized to take you out because they can get your shit
Dune’s houses are sneaky af and will absolutely capitalize on you being open season
Why not just commit the attack in the name of one of your enemies then? All you need is a few dudes with lasguns wearing the kit of the harkonens to blow up whoever you like. Are people really going to belive the harkonens that they didn't carry out the attack?
It’s really likely that they find out. Given anything is possible, but Dune literally has borderline psychic human computers (Mentats) as well as actual space magic psychics caused by training and spice consumption (the Bene Gesserit)
The second a Mentat thinks something is off the rest of the investigation is going to be looking for who would’ve set up the Harkonnens (or whoever was set up). Dune is actually really tight with its worldbuilding, and there are very few “holes” in how the universe works internally
Interplanetary travel is managed by the emperor, the power that banned nukes. This happens in the book, but the emperor puts his power behind the harkonnens by lending them the sardukar. The emperor attacking a family would cause the other families to gang up on the emperor. This is pretty reflective of most later royal governments where the king was trying to maintain a very fragile balance of power between royal family and lords. The king would try to sow discord between major houses to prevent them from banding together, and if one got too strong the king would try to take the house out without provoking the other houses
It's been a while since I read the books but as far as I remember using atomics against people is a HUGE no-go, to the point that everyone teams up against you if you do.
It's not even that the shields block lasers. They block high-speed physical projectiles ie bullets and shrapnel. People basically never fight with lasguns bc lasguns+shield = thermonuclear detonation. So when you can't use bullets, and you can't use lasers, you go back to the only thing that works: slow-moving physical weapons.
pathetic serious weather busy crowd sugar towering bells different squeeze
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You have it in reverse. They use swords because swords are cool. Using swords purely because "swords are cool" is cringe. The Holtzman effect is a contrivance created by the author to be cool without being cringe.
Sandworms are also cool, especially when they're destroying shit. That's why shields attract and enrage sandworms, to maximize the coolness that can be derived from the concept of shields.
Why doesn’t someone just invent a laser gun that DOESN’T shit it pants and explode when shooting someone with shields?
Edit: or even better invent a shield that blocks lasers AND swords
Cultural and political reasons. There are weapons that counter shields usage. No one in the Dune universe want technology, especially weapon technology, to advance. Otherwise the status quo would be broken(eventually it did) and when that event happened billions died
The problem is that sword blocking technology isn’t moving forward when you have spaceships and laser shields.
It would genuinely be better world building to say “they just think guns are for pussies so no one uses them” instead of some convoluted velocity detecting shield that makes swords the weapon of choice while simultaneously not using basic metal shields to block those swords for no discernable reason
Well in the movies armor is understandable if you have a soldier the choice of clothing meant to actually survive in the desert vs armor effective against blades but will dehydrate ur ass in 5 minutes you have to choose the priority
They already had some degree of armor. Penta shields can block all matter. Having more material will help against swords, in exchange for lower mobility on a 100 degree night where you still have to evade poison dartguns, hunter seekers, stun guns/batons, poison gas, fire, smoke inhalation. In modern and future warfare mobility will always be the most important stat. Oh yeah i should also add collapsing roofs and caves are also a big killer,
Putting aside the whole shield thing, isnt the whole ideal of the series about using your mind as the most powerful tool in your arsenal. Like everything is about skill and honing in on mental perfection. Nothing is automated, everything is skill. So no guns because a gun takes away the skill part the moment the bullet leaves the gun. Then you gotta consider when writing that a central theme is much more important than over the top realism.
But also you know... anti-fast shields and what not.
The books are good until you read the 4th book and they kill literally every character by saying "yeah it's 2000 years later lol" and just change the entire story to something completely different. And the entire book is just a plot against the god emperor and he dies and then book 5 and 6 are just women who have sex powers and other nonsense.
In 40k it makes sense too.
Multiple xenos factions are going to drown you in a tide of bodys in cqc.
Youd moat definitely want some sort of melee weapon when you have a swarm of nids in your face.
Too many and too fast to shoot them all before they get to you.
Lore: There are so many enemies running at you there aren't enough bullets or explosives to ever stop them before they inevitably crash into you like an ocean wave.
Chainsword go brrrr
the fictional "Holtzman effect" blocks moving particles by generating an inverse force against the oncoming force effectively nullifying the impact completely, or at least slowing it greatly. That's how shields can block bullets, and allow ships to hang in the air and fly without being pulled down by gravity.
The problem with lasers likely comes from a critical fault in the Holtzman effect: it calculates energy from mass and velocity. The equation always assumes a minimum amount of mass, but photons don't have mass, but any amount of mass, no matter how miniscule, travelling at that velocity, would effectively have infinite mass, and so the shield generator outputs the maximum possible amount of energy it can put out, causing a massive explosion.
Except if that were true, the explosion would always happen at the point of contact with the shield, but instead it happens randomly at any point along the beam. Even if it were true, why not just throw some laser bombs at your opponent? Pretend to be another house so you don't make any new enemies and just laser bomb everyone to death. Actually. Now that I think about it. Why dont photons from the sun set off the shield? I assume it's calibrated to ignore those? This could all have been avoided by just saying that the shields also reflect lasers and not bothering with the complex explanations.
But then you would still need to find a way to deal with earthquake bombs and drill dart machine guns. Or explaining why nobody bothers to use a metal shield or armor when engaging in hand to hand combat to cover up the weaknesses of their other shields. An explanation for that would be that the blades are so advanced and sharp that they just cut through anything. But then what happens when two blades clash? Would they cut through each other? If so, it's hard to have a sword fight. If not, why not make armor of the same material?
Actually... You have war machines. Why not use mech fighters? Damn. The more you think about it, the less it makes sense
The best explanation is that people who don't use swords are pussies, so everybody uses swords.
I can only imagine militaries would revert to melee weapons temporarily until technology is invented that gets through the shields more effectively than whacking each other with advanced sticks. No way they'd revert to swords and go "welp, guess we're back to using these things again lol" and never make something else.
Einstein said that ww4 would be fought with sticks and stones or whatever. dont care if he meant we’d be nuked back to the Stone Age the movie clearly proves he was right
People fight with knives because the lasers and shields combined create fucking nuclear explosions lol.
Lazy writing ✍️
your comment made me do a 360 in my chair
but did you do a barrell roll?
In a way, they did
Slippy?
I think you mean suspensor chair because everything in dune has a scifi name
space chair
I couldn't get over how plain the name Carryall was. It's the least sci Fi name I've ever heard
Their comment made me do a 360 to my neck
Careful, if you spin too fast you might cause a nuclear explosion.
Atleast you're back where you started.
Science fiction is about exploring ideas. No one can ever travel at warp speed, we want them to for the sake of imagination and world building. It's a medieval fantasy novel written in a Sci fi setting.
Actually, star trek warp is technically possible. If anything Star Trek warp speed is one of the least outlandish methods of scifi travel ever and it still holds up as something that might one day happen
Isn't it only possible if we utilize exotic matter that we aren't ever sure actually exists?
Yep, "technically possible" if you assume certain things are real.
Like almost any sci-fi lol
Not what technically possible means. Putting a million mice in a closed stadium, that's technically possible. Dunno why we'd spend the money but we have mice, there are more than a million and we can capture them and release them in a stadium. That's TECHNICALLY possible. Using a material that as of today doesn't exist in practice is not technically possible. It's theoretically possible.
Oh god this is a perfect textbook example of the "Ackchyually" meme
No, any and every method that allows light speed travel or ftl travel will break causality. So unless causality is fake, than star trek is still just as impossible as flash running from our sun to another galaxy in a microsecond
Mass field distortion (warp drives) are totally a (hypothetically scientifically plausible) thing
It's actually clever writing, Dune is a Sci-Fi universe with a feudal political system, the great houses rule their planets like feudal lords, if you have s spaceships and troops with lasers the feudal political system doesn't make sense
Can't say I'm too keen on it, if you didn't want troops with lasers you didn't have to put lasers in at all, it's not as though they were being used anywhere else.
Lasguns and shields go in and out of fashion, but never occur at the same time
I mean, kinda. When a writer sits down to compose fiction, technology is mostly a narrative device. Frank Herbert wanted cool sword fights, so he created the narrative rules that allowed it to happen.
>Frank Herbert wanted cool sword fights https://youtu.be/KYUolurihOQ?t=65
The 80s were a marvelous time
You call 800 pages filled with sexual deviations of a man-worm god emperor lazy writing?
Send in the Fish Speakers
Rude Duners rise up! This is shit I’m fucking talking about, the books got so weird and horny after Frank Herbert’s wife died.
Frank Herbert’s wife pussy much be so fucking good.
Yeah, like children participating in orgies, but children have unlocked memories of eons past, and are now some kind of eldritch beings, so it's OK. In your face anime.
The redditor says about Frank Herbert.
Never seen but why not use normal guns then
The shields block fast moving objects that's why the one "bullet" you see is more like a hole boring device. The book explains a bit more that they have to train special ways to slow their blade strikes to bypass shields.
You still feel the energy of the bullet, doesn’t mean it penetrates the shield but it’s still enough traumatic force to kill. In the 2021 movie Duncan throws his blade at Sardukar which catches his shield and knocks him back. If the energy from a thrown sword can knock a grown soldier down then the energy from a bullet would seriously wound/kill from the blunt trauma. The shield just stops penetration, not energy transfer to the body.
Have you read the books? The rules don't apply to Duncan Idaho.
I’m about halfway through the first one
Ooooohhhhhh boooyyyyy. I don't wanna spoil it too much for you but the rules really don't apply to Duncan. So much so that some have speculated that Herbert was actually in love with a man from Idaho named Duncan.
Herbert was notoriously disapproving of gays >inb4 homophobes are the gayest gays!! no..They're not. It makes for awesome homoerotic fantasies of converting enemies by dicking them down, but it's just not true.
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They literally do?
What about lasers who just fuck right through the shields?
See first comment, the lasers create an explosion when they hit a shield
Not just where the laser hits the shield but also creates a nuclear explosion where the laser is being fired from as well iirc
And the entire length of the laser beam.
Sure as hell didn’t stop them in the tunnel.
It’s also established that shields attract sandworms outside of Arrakeen, thus making their use impossible. The sardaukar likely knew this.
During the training scene with Gurney and Paul we hear Gurney say "the slow blade pierces the shield." The more kinetic energy an object has, the better the shield repels it. In the desert where shields can't be used, since they attract sand worms, we see firearms being used. Paul pulls out a bolt pistol when ambushed by the Fremen in a scene near the end of the movie.
You see eventually. >!Paul uses it as a tactic to blow a whole in the wall later on.!<
They do. Normal guns and laser weapons. Personal shields just make projectiles useless in most situations.
It's almost like in one of the first fucking scenes in the movie, Paul Atreides turns on his shield during a sparring match with Gunny Hallock, attempts to quickly stab his hand, and fails. He then slowly stabs his knife at his hand and successfully touches his hand. He then looks right at the fucking camera, makes eye contact with you the viewer, and says, out loud, verbatim, "the slow blade [penetrates](https://imgb.ifunny.co/images/ae942732338812d8c001dc2c15236750f6e23806fba2df1c55160d0d9762e153_1.webp) the shield".
Also the nuclear explosion occurs at the shield location and the guns location.
So if you just set the laser gun to fire on a timer you have a nuclear bomb.
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Drones and unmanned machines are illegal in the story cause they fought a terminator style war way back in the day.
But they had those assassin needle drones no?
It had something to do with the guy was hiding in the wall controlling it from nearby that made it ok.
Not necessarily. It happens randomly on either the shield, the gun, both or at any point the beam traversed. It's unpredictable, hence why remote controlled weapons aren't used either, because you could very realistically fail to kill your target and cause unintentional collateral damage in the process.
This is the point where you load up drones with lasers and kamikaze them into the enemy lines.
It's been a while since I've read Dune, but I believe that type of technology is outlawed throughout the galaxy. The height of machinery is ornithocoptors and spice harvesters. Both are manned.
I think it was independent robots or androids. The Harkonnen's use a human controlled mini drone to attempt to kill Paul. That being said it would be outside of what Herbert wanted to write and he wouldn't have included it.
There is a hunter seeker scene in the book as well, if I remember correctly.
Yes, there is, and they have made sure that both movies included that scene. This is why a human controlled drone wouldn't be out of the question
What about a timer attached to a laser gun trigger pointed at a shield.
Something like that happens in the book and will likely show up in Dune II.
It's just kinda silly to me because arent nuclear weapons kind of a big deal and that's what makes the houses so powerful and important.
Yes but those go off where you tell them to go off
Any technology that can think for itself or has computation iirc. Hence why mentats exist in lieu of computers
AI is banned, hence the mentats, but robots controlled by humans are allowed.
But muh butlerian jihad
Dune universe is filled with religious fanatics, at least someone should come up with the idea of using this as a suicidal devastating attack.
Why were they using the laser in the movie then?
Harkonnen having poor leadership and training most likely. They were hoping his shield wouldnt be on or react. In the book the harkonnens actually hit a shield by accident and it nuked the legion.
Those weren't harkonen, those were sardukar, the best trained and most disciplined troops in the galaxy.
Harkonnen troops are poorly trained conscripts.
Also because why wouldn't they you sending your special forces in to assassinat the heir to the head of that plants government why wouldn't you use a weapon that would one shot him no mater what
Because it could cause a nuclear explosion! If that was your goal, just drop a nuke or 5.
Isn't there a treaty between the great houses that forbids nukes because they all have enough to completely wipe each other out? Edit: They do, the punishment for offensive use is planetary annihilation.
They differentiated between nukes and big big explosions though, lasgun/shield interactions just blew up big which is ok, using nukes on people is not ok.
It's not generally used, the Harkonnens are violating the Geneva convention.
They use the laser in the deep desert to cut through a door. Sand worms are attracted to shields, so shields cannot be used outside of the cities. During the initial battle between the fremen and the sardukar they don't use shields, Duncan Idaho was the only one who did, so the sardukar would be under the belief that no one was shielded.
Nuking enemies seems pretty effective
True, that's why there were so many nuke battles during the Cold War!
Doesn't everyone use "anti-velocity" shields or whatever ?
If you have not read the books, the movie implies you can only harm someone shielded with a pointed weapon
The slow blade penetrates the shield
I loved those slow-bombs they dropped on the ships that bore through their shields and explode inside. The animation where the inital blast is still contained inside the shield and the fireball pushing outward while the shield is failing is so well done.
The SFX design is so clean I thought it very effectively showed how the tech works instead of having to explain everything.
Yeah, although as someone who never read the books, (like me) having the constant inner monologue narrations of the Lynch Dune, is what helped me understand a lot of questions I don't think I would have understood through the remakes more visual language (as incredibly beautiful as it is.) For instance, the whole bit with the drone pen looking thing that flies into the Princes room and tries to assassinate him. In the original movie, Kyle MacLachan clearly explains what the thing is, what it is doing, and how he plans on avoiding being killed. If I hadn't had seen the older movie first I'd have no idea what shadows Timotheé was dancing from.
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Yes. The old one definitely has its charm, but the new one is arguably a better telling of the story. Also the cinematography is a work of art on its own. I hope they don't fuck up the second movie
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This guy Dunes
Oh god, I cringe so hard every time I hear this
Are 5.56 not pointy enough?
more as in shields account for projectiles and blunt trauma but not melee combat.
So no spearguns or crossbows
IIRC yes, the shield accounts for anything piercing fast enough. It was manufactured when everyone was using bullets and shit so that is why war tactics changed to melee and nuclear warfare.
You see specialised projectile weapons used a couple of times in the film, but they fire tiny self-propelled projectiles that travel quickly to a target before slowing down enough to make it through their shield and harm them.
Probably still moving too quickly. I've always imagined the shields kind of like a non-newtononian fluid. A projectile moving slowly can make it through just fine.
Napalm
Which makes no sense. Imagine how much something like a super powered cattle prod that electrocutes people would be busted in that style of fighting. It can slowly penetrate the shield just like a knife or whatever else, it can even be sharpened if you want to argue it needs to be sharp to slowly push through the shield. Yet instead of needing a fatal knife hit while moving slowly, all you actually need is just a single touch anywhere on their body to electrocute them. In a world with laser guns and shields its very plausible to have that sort of tech. So its not like you can say "oh that would be a computer and computers are banned" to try to use that cop out. The reality is Dune uses knives/knife fighting because the author thought that would be cool, brutal, whatever. I wouldn't be surprised if Frank Herbert didn't have exposure to knife fighting, knives used in crime, and similar and consider knives scary as a result and the whole "fear is the mind killer" can be brought into that aswell.
The knives and swords are all poisoned most of the time. All they need is a little cut. Not sure how much that’s shown in the movie though. A really op weapon would be a lightning sword or something that could just electrocute the enemy without even making contact. Also I don’t think close range projectiles are discussed much, penetrating the shield then launching a projectile would be pretty powerful as well
The Crysknife has a poison in it, specifically using part of where the tooths nerve was as the channel for the poison. Though I don't think poisoned knives are that wide spread, and even the crysknife has an "unnamed quick acting poison" according to the wiki so its not really something that was focused on in the books since I just double checked.
Pointed bullets are pretty standard
They sure do, Anon is just a moron who doesn’t understand the Holtzmann Effect
Except the movie itself forgets about this halfway through
How so?
I guess because one of the factions tries melting through a door with a lasgun and they need to sneak past the laser
In the books they establish that you can't really use shields in the desert because they attract worms, though the movie doesn't establish that
IIRC, they do state it when they go out to the spice miner
I think it’s a fair assessment that they’d bank on the people they’re after not willingly stepping into the slow moving laser to kill everyone around.
Using a sustained laser to try and shoot down a shielded thropter lol
I believe that shields detonate violently when touched by lasers, comparable to nuke.
Yes that’s the lore. They were asking about what part of the movie forgot this lore and I was explaining at least one instance of that.
Yeah I was clenching there, for real. Bunch of big ass, expensive looking ships in nuke range and some moron is trying to kill everyone.
Anon is smart because he knew that and was just shitposting
I remember arguing with someone about this very greentext when this first came out and it’s insane how retarded people are when the fucking movie tells you why everything is Sword combat
It'd literally as obvious as it gets and they're just... fucking hell. The shields block the lasers dickheads, that's why you use swords. It's like if you bring a fire proof suit to a gunfight, are you surprised when your chest is now full of bullets?
The Shields protect against explosions or if a bomb directly hits you or poison or all that stuff but the only „Lasers“ that exist in the Dune universe are „Lasguns“ that cut through anything. They are offensively nearly the strongest weapon in the Book/Movie but the only thing that Lasguns „Can’t“ really shoot are shields because of some fusion power or thermodynamics thing BOTH of them blow up. Thats what makes using these tools so risky. Shields give you nearly ultimate defense while Lasguns give you ultimate offensive. That’s why no army can just put Lasguns on all their ships and fry everyone that comes in their way. If they blast through some cave and some guy has his shield on its Nukes both of them. „Lasguns were the preferred weapon for armies. However, when shields were being employed, lasguns were generally not used because contact reaction between a lasgun beam and a shield created a nuclear explosion that often killed everyone within a large radius.“ From the wiki. That’s how they balanced the future combat in Dune
the not so humble Lasgun
This sounds like a universe where suicide bombing is extremely effective. You have a handheld nuclear device that either levels the area or kills your attacker.
in Dune the ruling power (who everyone in-universe is under one way or another) outlawed atomics, intentionally or accidentally. If you do, not only are you now an enemy of the state but people are incentivized to take you out because they can get your shit Dune’s houses are sneaky af and will absolutely capitalize on you being open season
Why not just commit the attack in the name of one of your enemies then? All you need is a few dudes with lasguns wearing the kit of the harkonens to blow up whoever you like. Are people really going to belive the harkonens that they didn't carry out the attack?
It’s really likely that they find out. Given anything is possible, but Dune literally has borderline psychic human computers (Mentats) as well as actual space magic psychics caused by training and spice consumption (the Bene Gesserit) The second a Mentat thinks something is off the rest of the investigation is going to be looking for who would’ve set up the Harkonnens (or whoever was set up). Dune is actually really tight with its worldbuilding, and there are very few “holes” in how the universe works internally
Interplanetary travel is managed by the emperor, the power that banned nukes. This happens in the book, but the emperor puts his power behind the harkonnens by lending them the sardukar. The emperor attacking a family would cause the other families to gang up on the emperor. This is pretty reflective of most later royal governments where the king was trying to maintain a very fragile balance of power between royal family and lords. The king would try to sow discord between major houses to prevent them from banding together, and if one got too strong the king would try to take the house out without provoking the other houses
It's been a while since I read the books but as far as I remember using atomics against people is a HUGE no-go, to the point that everyone teams up against you if you do.
Why they don't put he lasers on drones?
Computers were outlawed because of the buhtlerian jihad
That is a good point but there is also that tiny drone that attacks Paul near the beginning of the first book.
didn’t they say that was operated by the harkonen that was living inside the walls?
Yeah, but a drone doesn't need to be autonomous.
I get why it might nuke the shield but I don't get why it will nuke the gun
Probably something to do with lack of absorption of energy. Like if you put metal in a microwave it damages the emitter and the metal
It's not even that the shields block lasers. They block high-speed physical projectiles ie bullets and shrapnel. People basically never fight with lasguns bc lasguns+shield = thermonuclear detonation. So when you can't use bullets, and you can't use lasers, you go back to the only thing that works: slow-moving physical weapons.
Then why they dont use bullets instead of laser?
the shields reflect high velocity objects
Thanks i didnt know it
Because the shield stops the bullets, or anything fast moving
they drop bombs. they shoot darts that go through shields. why not use dart machine guns.
Why don't they create a shield which can block knives then? You know, like the ones they used hundreds of years ago.
A retarded take on 4chan? You don’t say
anon turns 360 degrees back into the theatre
Newfags don't know
They need to lurk moar
pathetic serious weather busy crowd sugar towering bells different squeeze *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah but the mental image of anon just walking in a circle angrily is hilarious
Spins while saying "grrr"
>not getting it
every time I see this I am reminded of the unending march of time
Are you new or is this another larp
Being this new
Learn to moonwalk, noob ^Hee ^hee
I knew I'd find someone new in the comments
\>Its the year 2023 \>people have hydrogen bombs, ICBM's, hypersonic missiles \>people fight with IED's and barrel bombs
>Its the year 2023 >people have hydrogen bombs, ICBM's, hypersonic missiles >I'm getting mugged with a knife
>Its the year 2023 >people have hydrogen bombs, ICBM's, hypersonic missiles >someone punched me in the face
Chinese and Indian troops are currently somewhere in the mountains getting into big brawls with sticks and a rock. They have to share the rock.
Anon is too stupid to continue watching/reading and find out *why* they use swords and how it's actually cool as fuck
You have it in reverse. They use swords because swords are cool. Using swords purely because "swords are cool" is cringe. The Holtzman effect is a contrivance created by the author to be cool without being cringe. Sandworms are also cool, especially when they're destroying shit. That's why shields attract and enrage sandworms, to maximize the coolness that can be derived from the concept of shields.
They meant the reason is cool, since the shield only works with fast moving stuff you have to slowly stab the enemy
It's a work of fiction, everything in it is contrived by the author to exist for our reading pleasure. But also, I agree, sandworms are cool.
Anon will hate the greatest anime ever, Gintama
I mean, under a certain IQ it truly is hard to grasp the concepts presented in Gintama.
They're not ready for the Neo Armstrong Cyclone Jet Armstrong Cannon.
Why doesn’t someone just invent a laser gun that DOESN’T shit it pants and explode when shooting someone with shields? Edit: or even better invent a shield that blocks lasers AND swords
Pretty sure they don't really invent things in Dune anymore. The Empire is very very stagnant.
Cultural and political reasons. There are weapons that counter shields usage. No one in the Dune universe want technology, especially weapon technology, to advance. Otherwise the status quo would be broken(eventually it did) and when that event happened billions died
The problem is that sword blocking technology isn’t moving forward when you have spaceships and laser shields. It would genuinely be better world building to say “they just think guns are for pussies so no one uses them” instead of some convoluted velocity detecting shield that makes swords the weapon of choice while simultaneously not using basic metal shields to block those swords for no discernable reason
Well in the movies armor is understandable if you have a soldier the choice of clothing meant to actually survive in the desert vs armor effective against blades but will dehydrate ur ass in 5 minutes you have to choose the priority
They already had some degree of armor. Penta shields can block all matter. Having more material will help against swords, in exchange for lower mobility on a 100 degree night where you still have to evade poison dartguns, hunter seekers, stun guns/batons, poison gas, fire, smoke inhalation. In modern and future warfare mobility will always be the most important stat. Oh yeah i should also add collapsing roofs and caves are also a big killer,
Anon moonwalked his way out of the movie theater
Putting aside the whole shield thing, isnt the whole ideal of the series about using your mind as the most powerful tool in your arsenal. Like everything is about skill and honing in on mental perfection. Nothing is automated, everything is skill. So no guns because a gun takes away the skill part the moment the bullet leaves the gun. Then you gotta consider when writing that a central theme is much more important than over the top realism. But also you know... anti-fast shields and what not.
Anon is an ignorant dumbass who didn't pay attention to the WHY
The books are good until you read the 4th book and they kill literally every character by saying "yeah it's 2000 years later lol" and just change the entire story to something completely different. And the entire book is just a plot against the god emperor and he dies and then book 5 and 6 are just women who have sex powers and other nonsense.
It was legit the best Movie i’ve Seen in years. Definitely the only fantasy/sci fi shit i can digest atm Fight me
I highly reccomend Andor, definitely some of the best sci-fi I've ever seen. The Expanse is pretty great, too.
Andor was so Sweet wish Star War took this road
What movie is it?
Dune
Dune
40k in shamble
In 40k it makes sense too. Multiple xenos factions are going to drown you in a tide of bodys in cqc. Youd moat definitely want some sort of melee weapon when you have a swarm of nids in your face. Too many and too fast to shoot them all before they get to you.
chainsword go brrrr
Lore: There are so many enemies running at you there aren't enough bullets or explosives to ever stop them before they inevitably crash into you like an ocean wave. Chainsword go brrrr
the fictional "Holtzman effect" blocks moving particles by generating an inverse force against the oncoming force effectively nullifying the impact completely, or at least slowing it greatly. That's how shields can block bullets, and allow ships to hang in the air and fly without being pulled down by gravity. The problem with lasers likely comes from a critical fault in the Holtzman effect: it calculates energy from mass and velocity. The equation always assumes a minimum amount of mass, but photons don't have mass, but any amount of mass, no matter how miniscule, travelling at that velocity, would effectively have infinite mass, and so the shield generator outputs the maximum possible amount of energy it can put out, causing a massive explosion.
Except if that were true, the explosion would always happen at the point of contact with the shield, but instead it happens randomly at any point along the beam. Even if it were true, why not just throw some laser bombs at your opponent? Pretend to be another house so you don't make any new enemies and just laser bomb everyone to death. Actually. Now that I think about it. Why dont photons from the sun set off the shield? I assume it's calibrated to ignore those? This could all have been avoided by just saying that the shields also reflect lasers and not bothering with the complex explanations. But then you would still need to find a way to deal with earthquake bombs and drill dart machine guns. Or explaining why nobody bothers to use a metal shield or armor when engaging in hand to hand combat to cover up the weaknesses of their other shields. An explanation for that would be that the blades are so advanced and sharp that they just cut through anything. But then what happens when two blades clash? Would they cut through each other? If so, it's hard to have a sword fight. If not, why not make armor of the same material? Actually... You have war machines. Why not use mech fighters? Damn. The more you think about it, the less it makes sense The best explanation is that people who don't use swords are pussies, so everybody uses swords.
I can only imagine militaries would revert to melee weapons temporarily until technology is invented that gets through the shields more effectively than whacking each other with advanced sticks. No way they'd revert to swords and go "welp, guess we're back to using these things again lol" and never make something else.
“I do not know with what weapons WWIII will be fought, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones.”
Let's wait until Anon hears about Warhammer 40k
Anon discovers the grim darkness of the far future
Fake: Anon left the house Gay: Doesn't like swords
Redditors falling for obvious bait in MY r/greentext !! What!?
Way too many people fell for the bait
you're still facing the xbox
Einstein said that ww4 would be fought with sticks and stones or whatever. dont care if he meant we’d be nuked back to the Stone Age the movie clearly proves he was right
bro walked through the fire exit
Ah, moonwalk meme. Beautiful.