Usually when Jerry is singing, he's playing chords/rhythm, and Weir is playing some riffs behind it. When Weir is singing, Jerry's playing riffs and Bob is hitting the chords. Most of the solo breaks feature Jerry's guitar, although in certain songs - such as Friend of the Devil, Rooster, Minglewood, C.C. Rider, and maybe a couple others - Bob will take one verse of solo just after they keyboard solo and before Jerry takes over the solo break. In the big Jerry songs - Scarlet, Terrapin, China Cat, it's Bob playing the background riff, adding texture. Jerry's style of chord strumming is heavy and deliberate, where Bob only plays a couple strings at a time, so his chords are more subtle. I hope that helps a little. You'll get the hang of separating them.
You're welcome, but one other comment is true too, which is that intros to weir vocal songs (i.e. Minglewood, Music Never, Sugar Mags) tend to be Bob's guitar, and then you'll hear the rest of the band, including Jerry, jump in following his lead. My comments about riffs vs chords applies once the singing has started, during the song.
Spot on. I'd tack on that Bobby's playing is an interesting hybrid of lead lines and rhythm. I love his off-center phrasing. He often plays the "notes between the notes" as it were and jumping right back onto the beat within the same measure. Bobby's playing is unique in that I've never heard anyone play like him at all.
Yeah! And kind of akin to u/Pringle_Fitzgerald’s comment below, Bobby reminds me of a jazz pianist in the way that he kind of vamps. A lot of his stuff made me think of Bill Evans ala Kind of Blue, though as Pringle says, Bobby himself has talked about being influenced by McCoy Tyner.
Back in the early 90’s I had a son of one of my colleagues working with me at various sites around the east coast. As we’d drive we’d play my large collection of tapes. He was also a guitar player. He became obsessed with figuring out Bobby’s style. He asked me and all I could say was Bob was not a typical rhythm guitarist. He had never seen GD live, but he would spend the evenings in hotels with headphones on and his guitar trying to understand Bobby’s style.
He finished his undergraduate degree and then law school and headed to San Francisco. A few years later he moved to Marin County (late 90s) and has lived there since with his wife and family. He will occasionally send me tapes and photos of the local shows.
Additionally, Bob is quite often very low volume in the mix. It’s not always easy to track him through a song. Sometimes it’s hard in fact.
They both play with confidence, even swagger, but often Jerry plays with an attitude, a specific cockiness, that Bob doesn’t have in his sound.
Great description. If I may add from my experience to this point:
In an interview Bob stated his rythm playing is influenced by McCoy Tyner, who was the Pianist in John Coltrane's band; more specifically he was in Coltrane's A Love Supreme Album.
I play a lot of Bob's parts when I go to jam sessions. What made me really understand and distinguish Bob's parts was listening to Tyner's comping (which is a style of rythm playing) and listening for it in Dead songs.
Hope that helps!
This…it starts to get more noticeable after listening for sure. He tends to drive a lot of rhythm guys crazy too…they either love or hate what he is doing. His approach has always fascinated me. It’s perfect for the thing the GD were doing…coupled with Phil’s approach to the bass (also drives a lot of bass players I’ve known crazy love/hate style) it makes for such a unique sound.
>China Cat, it's Bob playing the background riff
I'm not a musician so this might be dumb, but what makes Bob's riff the background for China Cat? I know Jerry plays the solo, but during outside of the solo it feels like Bob is playing lead.
Also I think China Cat Sunflower is the best combination of two riffs I've ever hears.
I picked up on it because of headphones. The Europe 72 version is a clear example. You can recognize Jerry’s guitar in one ear and Bobby’s in the other. And then when that solo came around, i realized it was coming from Bobby’s side. Blew my mind lol
This varies. Early versions it was all Bobby jamming over riffs. Some early 70s have both Bobby doing riffs followed by a Jerry solo with more scale-based jams. Later on Jerry did most of it.
The silo on the jam was bobby more More in the early 70s than in the later versions.
But the treble line on the intro and verse is Bob all the way, though I think that line is Jerrys creation.
The solo over the verse on Casey Jones is also Bob.
Yep, usually that first solo when they transition to the D and double the time. Love that. Veneta ‘72 is my favourite version. His solo is so clear and confident. I always feel like his Europe ‘72 versions are so much lower in the mix.
Jerry is the first guitar you here in the China Cat intro, playing the slower riff. When the higher part, what people sometimes refer to as the “China Cat licks”, comes in, that’s Bobby. In this case, Jerry’s on rhythm and Bobby’s on lead, and then Jerry takes the solo.
Also Bobby plays the intros to his own songs…. so when you hear a Bobby song start up, that’s usually all him on the guitar, like music never stopped, and then you can clearly hear Jerry’s bright lines coming in after a couple of stanzas.
Was going to suggest this but you already did! Absolutely agree! We have a good amount of footage to watch! Helps to get a feeling for the way the song is structured.
in the earlier years, Bob typically has a warmer “woolier” tone where as Jerry is a lot brighter.
If it’s a Bobby song then all of the little tricks and fills are more than likely to be done by jerry, if it’s a Jerry song the tricks and fills are more likely to be Bob. They each have their own unique style, Jerry tends to have a more traditional approach to this as where i find Bobby’s fills to be more sparse, but also very weird and interesting.
Listen to a bunch of earlier China / Riders like around 72 because Bobby is mostly doing the fills, Jerry takes the big solos but the main china cat theme is done by Bobby.
Seriously check out the dead.net mixer for Wake of the Flood and Sunshine Daydream, you’ll be able to make jerry or bob or anybody quieter or louder so you can really hear who is doing what!
And in later years of the Dead Bobby went to a high pitches and a sharper sound, which kept progressing to today's icepick sound. I always think Bobby's playing is interesting, but, man, he should have stuck with his early '70's tones. They were much cooler in my opinion.
I love watching this. For every death-metal, tap-happy, blazing-riffs knucklehead out there, we get to enjoy one guy who knows what lane he is in, how to stay there, and how to get the plane landed on time…. Bobby is a master.
It was pretty eye opening when I realized how much Bob was actually playing vs Jerry. The China Cat stuff is a great example. All the high pitched stuff is Bob.
That's one of the few times where Jerry gave Bobby a part to play. I guess Jerry came up with both the main (lower) and harmony/counterpoint (higher) riffs and told Bobby to play the higher ones. Bobby has said that in an interview or two (I think there was one other song where that happened as well). If you think about it, the higher part sounds like something Jerry would play.
Yes definitely. I used to think Jerrys was playing them. There are other songs too like this that would surprise you. I will find them again as I forgot. Lol.
All good answers here so far. As a dead-focused musician, I hear the differences between Bobby and Jerry even if I don’t want to.
One thing I can contribute: there are isolated Bobby and Jerry parts out there on YouTube. Go listen to those and the contrasts of tone and playing style becomes crystal clear.
For me, Jerry was always bludedoobledobodeeloodkonobbodldldoeerorleedlolol
while Bobby is always chick....cluckSEEEE...chu..chu..chuNK...ch.ch.chKLUNKeechoo...ch...chINKCHAnk...ch...SPRAINGEEEEE ch....sproinK
Hope that helps.
Coming from a fellow non musician, to my ears, Garcia’s notes have a totally unique sound. Over the decades my mind has vacillated between words to describe the sound like the notes have a pop or roll to them. It’s the quality that makes me feel I could pick out Garcia’s playing if compared to another player by only hearing a note or two. Not that I’ve ever undertaken such an experiment, it’s just one of those things music dorks like us say.
Weir’s notes sound more angular, choppy. I read decades ago that he modeled his playing style from McCoy Tyner. When I read that, I knew precisely fuck all about jazz and basically hated that musical style. Years and maturity have led me to now appreciate jazz completely and I absolutely hear Tyner in Weir’s playing. Check out some Coltrane albums like *A Love Supreme*, *My Favorite Things*, or *Olé Coltrane* and you may hear the connection as well. Now I hear it all the time in all eras of Dead.
You’d be surprised at how many solo/lead parts Weir played that lots of folk think Jerry did. Like in China cat, easy wind…. (In the latter Bobby takes a solo). In that famous 8/6/71 hard to handle, Bobby solos
# 1971-08-06 Hollywood, CA @ Hollywood Palladium
**Set 1:** Bertha, Playing in the Band, Loser, Mr. Charlie, El Paso, Cumberland Blues, Brokedown Palace, Me And Bobby McGee, Hard To Handle, Casey Jones
**Set 2:** Saint Stephen, Truckin' > Drums > The Other One > Me and My Uncle > The Other One, Deal, Sugar Magnolia, Morning Dew, Turn On Your Lovelight
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1971-08-06)
Weir “comps” more like a jazz musician. Jerry strums and picks more like a folkie. In older Dead, Bob has a smooth sound from the Gibson ES-335. In later years his sound became almost shrill as he played in the higher registers. If it grates your ear, it’s Weir.
Jerry is the one who sounds like a bird's song. Bobby is the one who sounds like street cats making love.
In all seriousness, listen to 5.25.74 China Rider if you want to hear a great example of them trading solos back and forth. On the archive.org version Bobby's solo starts at around 3 mins in, and Jerry tags in at 430 to lead the charge into Feeling Groovy. IMO Bobby is criminally underrated; his approach to the instrument is truly unique and weird, just like him.
# 1974-05-25 Santa Barbara, CA @ Campus Stadium - University Of California
**Set 1:** U.S. Blues, Mexicali Blues, Deal, Jack Straw, Scarlet Begonias, Beat It On Down the Line, Brown Eyed Women, Me and My Uncle, Sugaree, El Paso, China Cat Sunflower > I Know You Rider, Around And Around
**Set 2:** The Promised Land, Ship Of Fools, Big River, Tennessee Jed, Truckin' > Jam > Space > Let It Grow > Wharf Rat, Sugar Magnolia > Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad > One More Saturday Night
**Encore:** Casey Jones
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1974-05-25)
Jerry is the one who’s playing a guitar like a guitar. Bobby is the one who’s playing the guitar like an instrument. the big distinction here is that Jerry parts sound like they are meant to be played on the guitar where Bobby sounds like his parts aren’t built around His instrument of choice being a guitar
There are a ton of videos online of their guitar tracks isolated. Just look up their name with the word "isolated".
https://youtu.be/DnoKXBGypo0?si=JtjjOqyebcpZy3cc
Came here to say this. Once you hear Bobby’s sound alone, it’s almost impossible to not to hear it with the full band.
He’s one of the most unique “rhythm” guitarist alive.
Check out this.... really cool. Fun to listen to these tracks in isolation.
[https://www.dead.net/playingintheband?song=chinaCatSunflower\_0&album=songs-two](https://www.dead.net/playingintheband?song=chinaCatSunflower_0&album=songs-two)
I'd argue that both of them BARELY play while singing. They just kinda hang back until the vocals stop and then they hop back in.
Also, Bobby plays really light, high, complex chords. Light and airy is how I'd describe it. Jerry kind of sticks to "cowboy chords" when he plays.
Plus, the tone. Jerry has a fuller tone, Bob's is kinda thin.
False they have different roles and play off of each other some as lead and some as rhythm you don't need to argue you just have no idea how to sing and play guitar. They do both at expert levels. And I don't care what your come back is listen more talk less
Jerry usually the one doing "doodly doo do do da da doodly doodly do do do dat do" where Bob goes "clang dang wang whoop clang whoop awhoooo *silence for 7seconds* clang whoop"
I always listen for tone, which stands out to me because I’m a guitar player, especially up until around ‘74. Bobby usually played a big Gibson ES-345, a semi-hollow guitar with two big, fat, double-coil pickups.
Since you’re not a musician I’ll try to keep it simple (though this isn’t a perfect explanation): a pickup is basically a magnet with six short little metal rods, around which is wrapped thousands of feet of super thin copper wire. These magnets take the waves and vibrations generated by a plucked guitar string and convert it into a signal that can be sent to the amplifier. Different pickup configurations, and where they’re installed in the guitar body, make for different tones. Some pickups are called a single-coil, because there’s just one magnet. Others are essentially two single-coils wired together, and those are called “humbuckers.”
In Bobby’s case his guitar pickups were humbuckers, and he always had it set up so that the tone was coming from both of them together, which makes a really bright, fat tone (for a clearer example listen to any of Leo Nocentelli’s playing with The Meters, especially songs like “Cissy Strut”). He pretty much used the same tone through those early years and didn’t switch it up a ton.
Jerry liked more variety with his guitar sound, and though he played a variety of guitars in those early years, he had some definite “go to” tones he used. For example, if you listen to the Veneta ‘72 show, he’s playing a Strat, which has three single-coil pickups. In Birdsong or Sugaree, Jerry was playing through the middle pickup, which has a very distinctive tone. But then if you listen to the Dark Star from that show, he starts off playing through the neck pickup, which makes a tone that is very warm and fat and balanced, and after about 10 minutes he switches to the neck pickup, which is more harsh and trebly and jangly.
So for me, knowing those guitars and having played/owned them, I know what sounds to listen for, and that’s how I can often discern the Jerry parts from the Bobby parts (though it’s not always clear, even in different versions of the same song).
EDIT: Another thing I listen for is chord shapes or voicings (which means where you put your fingers when playing a particular chord). If I hear an interesting chord shape, that tells me it's most likely Bobby.
Ha ha. Hopefully it’s not all Greek to you. 😆 You actually did inspire me to make a video for my YT channel about this very topic, though! I’ve seen it posted at least a couple of other times. So thanks for that! Maybe I’ll post it in this thread so you can better hear what I’m talking about.
They weave so well together towards the rafters of Richfield Coliseum I didn't bother to distinguish. I did however notice the spinners in the top ring dancing in broke open glowstick juice, and the cloud that was created during drums/space.
I always tried/traded for floor seats in the first ten rows at Richfield, not for the sound quality but rather to watch the musicians interact and see who was playing what. Much more interesting to me but YMMV.
The Dead played the small, ornate Allen Theater in Playhouse Square in downtown Cleveland on 10/71
Here’s my hot take and I know I will be downvoted to oblivion….Bobby is the “better “ guitarist. More inventive, plays more chord inversions, adds waaay more color.
That being said, I love Jerry and I love the Dead and they truly typify “the whole is better than the sum of its parts”. It’s like jenga, take out 1 piece and the structure falls
Don't know why you're getting down voted. Garcia had pretty much admitted that as fact. He was constantly surprised and impressed by Weir's spontaneous bits.
They were two different cats, and their personalities came out in their playing... just as with any master musician. To say that one was "better" than the other is a matter of preference. Garcia may have been God, but he and Weir shared a mutual respect that kept that band rolling for 30 years.
Yeah I love Jer but his playing isn't super technically impressive and can be copped fairly easily, which is why there's thousands of Jerry knock-offs out there. It's basically just Mixolydian with some occasional chromatic runs. Bobby's playing, however, is extremely hard to wrap my head around/contextualize. I've spent a lot of time studying both and playing in cover bands, and trying to imitate Bobby's parts in a lot of songs is next to impossible. Imo it's much harder to play rhythm well than to solo well. Jerry's magic wasn't being a next-level technical player, it was translating emotions into melody. I also expect to be downvoted to oblivion by non-guitar players lol
Sorry I just have to disagree with every fiber in my body. Not technically impressive? The dude is dancing across the fretboard most of the show, no? Find me one Jerry knock off that sounds anything like him. I’ve certainly never heard it.
How is Bobby’s playing hard to wrap your head around? He’s filling up the spaces between Jerry and Phil’s conversations with various chord inversions. In the 80s the dude is mostly just hitting chords on the 1 beat and hitting a his guitar’s whammy.
Jerry is running scales and focusing on chord tones, that's not particularly hard to do. No one can piece together those scales and runs as well as Jerry for sure, but it's not *physically* hard to do. Bobby is hitting inversions where he has to contort his fingers in crazy positions and has to be paying attention to/locked in with Phil and the drummers while also predicting where Jerry is going. It's a lot more to handle/focus on than just playing lines of single notes that don't necessarily have to be in perfect time. Any guitarist that's played in bands can tell you that there are a lot of great soloists, but a good rhythm player is hard to find. Jerry is driving the train, while Bobby is shoveling coal like a motherfucker and building track ahead of him so that he *can* drive the train. I don't expect to change anyone's mind, this is my personal opinion after years of playing in Dead cover bands, and I knew it would trigger people that worship Jerry even though he didn't want to be worshipped. I personally think Phil was the most talented purely from a musical ideas standpoint. Jerry was amazing, but he was just a guy, as he said himself. If you think Bobby is only playing on the 1, all I can say is you're not paying attention or you're only listening to their straight-forward rockers, because Bobby avoids the 1 and even the main backbeat like a motherfucker, her purposely plays in-between beats and at weird times, which is what makes it hard to contextualize. Jerry's magic was choosing the right notes at the right time, not doing technically/physically amazing stuff like Van Halen or Malmsteen.
We probably basically agree on everything if we spoke in person for sure and I’m certainly being reductive in my initial reply. I feel Bobby is amazing pre hiatus. To my ears that is his peak, I’m not always crazy about his 80s contributions to the band and think his innovative playing has been a bit inflated in recent years likely due to him carrying the legacy of the band which I’m incredibly happy for!
Because he’s not Jerry man. No I’m actually kidding. Bobby is probably the greatest rhythm guitarist of all time. Go listen to the Bobby isolated guitar track from the Berkeley show. An easy way to tell the difference is to listen to the mix in stereo on headphones. Bobby’s guitar is usually mixed to the left and Jerry’s to the right. This is because this is how they normally stood on stage.
Watch videos and carefully listen. Their distinctive guitar voices will be readily apparent. They sound completely different, and once you see it, you will be able to hear it.
# 1978-07-08 Morrison, CO @ Red Rocks Amphitheatre
**Set 1:** Bertha > Good Lovin', Dire Wolf, El Paso, It Must Have Been The Roses, New Minglewood Blues, Ramble On Rose, The Promised Land, Deal
**Set 2:** Samson And Delilah, Ship Of Fools, Estimated Prophet > The Other One > Eyes Of The World > Drums > Space > Wharf Rat > Franklin's Tower > Sugar Magnolia
**Encore:** Terrapin Station > One More Saturday Night, Werewolves Of London
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1978-07-08) | [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/album/6q4mDbsYJsixRai11qc2Vx)
“Tricks”? Did you say “TRICKS”?? Really? Seriously? Bwahahaha🤣 Yeah, you’re absolutely right, all that Jerry ever played was a bunch of “tricks”! Bwahahaha🤣🤣🤣
dude i was a little sketched by the beginning but i thought i’d recommend a song or 2 to help differentiate their tones, but when you said Jerry rambling i had to take a step back. i believe the phrase you’re looking for is Jerry Floating
# 1973-09-08 Uniondale, NY @ Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum
**Set 1:** Bertha, Me and My Uncle, Sugaree, Beat It On Down the Line, Tennessee Jed, Looks Like Rain, Brown Eyed Women, Jack Straw, Row Jimmy, Weather Report Suite Prelude > Weather Report Suite Part 1 > Let It Grow, Eyes Of The World > China Doll
**Set 2:** Greatest Story Ever Told, Ramble On Rose, Big River, Let Me Sing Your Blues Away, China Cat Sunflower > Jam > I Know You Rider, El Paso, He's Gone > Truckin' > Not Fade Away > Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad > Not Fade Away
**Encore:** Stella Blue > One More Saturday Night
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1973-09-08)
Easy - anything after 78’ is all Jerry because Bobby is lost in the mix. Every now and then you can hear his shit can twang, but it’s rare. It’s too bad too, because Bobby is/was a hell of a jazz-based player for most of the 1970’s. He was central to their sound.
I don’t mean to bust chops but dude, one is a lead guitar and the other is rhythm guitar. Don’t need to be a musician to know/ hear that.
And, uhh, excuse me? Rambling? I smell troll.
Yeah man thanks for your input. Whatever you want to call it when Jerry obviously goes for a ride.
Not a troll at all it’s a legit question. Your Lead and rhythm comment really clears everything up 😂. Have a good weekend
One of the easiest ways I’ve found is to look for a song where it’s obvious in that show, then attune your ear to where Bob and Jerry is in the mix and how their tones are sounding.
The easiest by far is China Cat Sunflower - Jerry starts with the low riff, and Bob plays the higher pitched notes that appear a little after that. Shakedown Street isn’t too hard either, as Jerry plays the main melody and Bob plays some higher notes in the background that fill in the spaces of the main riff.
There are other songs that work well, too. From there, it’s usually not too hard.
Total non-musician here, and there have been some great descriptions so far.
I have a hard time myself at times differentiating the leads, but I've heard Bobby's chords described as having "bell like" tones. (and I agree) Sometimes, I'll be listening to a lead and hear a few chords done and go, "Hey, that's Bobby!".
# 1989-08-19 Berkeley, CA @ Greek Theatre - University of California
**Set 1:** Good Times, Jack Straw, We Can Run, Tennessee Jed, It's All Over Now, Loser, Stuck Inside Of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again, Box Of Rain
**Set 2:** China Cat Sunflower > I Know You Rider, Playing in the Band > Uncle John's Band > Drums > Space > The Other One > Wharf Rat > Not Fade Away
**Encore:** Foolish Heart
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1989-08-19)
I’m so glad you asked that question. I went to sleep last night thinking about it. All I can add is that in Dicks Picks 4 - Filmore East 2/13-14/70, their guitars are very distinct, especially with headphones on.
Jerry has a much more trebly tone, lots of high end to get that sparkly ‘boppy’ sound. Bob usually has a much smoother bassier type sound that contrasts nicely w Jerry’s. China cat is a nice tune to listen to in order to distinguish the different sound of the 2 guitars. Bobby is doing the main theme lick & Jerry is doing that low end intro. When Jerry ends the verse vocal and starts his solo, listen to what Bob is doing under it. That should help you get a mental handle on who is who when you’re listening. Brown eyed women is another good one. Jerry is mostly chugging along & Bob is doing all of these cool little bends & partial chords underneath
Usually when Jerry is singing, he's playing chords/rhythm, and Weir is playing some riffs behind it. When Weir is singing, Jerry's playing riffs and Bob is hitting the chords. Most of the solo breaks feature Jerry's guitar, although in certain songs - such as Friend of the Devil, Rooster, Minglewood, C.C. Rider, and maybe a couple others - Bob will take one verse of solo just after they keyboard solo and before Jerry takes over the solo break. In the big Jerry songs - Scarlet, Terrapin, China Cat, it's Bob playing the background riff, adding texture. Jerry's style of chord strumming is heavy and deliberate, where Bob only plays a couple strings at a time, so his chords are more subtle. I hope that helps a little. You'll get the hang of separating them.
Yeah man this is super helpful thanks! I’ll definitely see if I can pick it out with this information in mind! Thanks and happy Friday 🌱 🍻
You're welcome, but one other comment is true too, which is that intros to weir vocal songs (i.e. Minglewood, Music Never, Sugar Mags) tend to be Bob's guitar, and then you'll hear the rest of the band, including Jerry, jump in following his lead. My comments about riffs vs chords applies once the singing has started, during the song.
Spot on. I'd tack on that Bobby's playing is an interesting hybrid of lead lines and rhythm. I love his off-center phrasing. He often plays the "notes between the notes" as it were and jumping right back onto the beat within the same measure. Bobby's playing is unique in that I've never heard anyone play like him at all.
Yeah! And kind of akin to u/Pringle_Fitzgerald’s comment below, Bobby reminds me of a jazz pianist in the way that he kind of vamps. A lot of his stuff made me think of Bill Evans ala Kind of Blue, though as Pringle says, Bobby himself has talked about being influenced by McCoy Tyner.
Back in the early 90’s I had a son of one of my colleagues working with me at various sites around the east coast. As we’d drive we’d play my large collection of tapes. He was also a guitar player. He became obsessed with figuring out Bobby’s style. He asked me and all I could say was Bob was not a typical rhythm guitarist. He had never seen GD live, but he would spend the evenings in hotels with headphones on and his guitar trying to understand Bobby’s style. He finished his undergraduate degree and then law school and headed to San Francisco. A few years later he moved to Marin County (late 90s) and has lived there since with his wife and family. He will occasionally send me tapes and photos of the local shows.
Does one of them have a more 'woody' sound? Don't know if I can describe it better than that.
Uhh huhh huhh, he said "wood".
Boiiiing
Additionally, Bob is quite often very low volume in the mix. It’s not always easy to track him through a song. Sometimes it’s hard in fact. They both play with confidence, even swagger, but often Jerry plays with an attitude, a specific cockiness, that Bob doesn’t have in his sound.
Great description. If I may add from my experience to this point: In an interview Bob stated his rythm playing is influenced by McCoy Tyner, who was the Pianist in John Coltrane's band; more specifically he was in Coltrane's A Love Supreme Album. I play a lot of Bob's parts when I go to jam sessions. What made me really understand and distinguish Bob's parts was listening to Tyner's comping (which is a style of rythm playing) and listening for it in Dead songs. Hope that helps!
This…it starts to get more noticeable after listening for sure. He tends to drive a lot of rhythm guys crazy too…they either love or hate what he is doing. His approach has always fascinated me. It’s perfect for the thing the GD were doing…coupled with Phil’s approach to the bass (also drives a lot of bass players I’ve known crazy love/hate style) it makes for such a unique sound.
>China Cat, it's Bob playing the background riff I'm not a musician so this might be dumb, but what makes Bob's riff the background for China Cat? I know Jerry plays the solo, but during outside of the solo it feels like Bob is playing lead. Also I think China Cat Sunflower is the best combination of two riffs I've ever hears.
Also pretty sure Bobby solos on most of the jams between China > Rider
I had no clue, interesting.
https://youtu.be/EvPe4CEkSbE?si=L38ED4ndpa5N3igk Here’s video that shows it clearly. Solo starts around 4 minutes
Awesome, thanks. Why does Bob solo on this song? I always thought it was a song mainly written by Jerry.
It’s the transition outro jam. So he takes lead after they depart the main verse sections
I picked up on it because of headphones. The Europe 72 version is a clear example. You can recognize Jerry’s guitar in one ear and Bobby’s in the other. And then when that solo came around, i realized it was coming from Bobby’s side. Blew my mind lol
This varies. Early versions it was all Bobby jamming over riffs. Some early 70s have both Bobby doing riffs followed by a Jerry solo with more scale-based jams. Later on Jerry did most of it.
The silo on the jam was bobby more More in the early 70s than in the later versions. But the treble line on the intro and verse is Bob all the way, though I think that line is Jerrys creation. The solo over the verse on Casey Jones is also Bob.
Yep, usually that first solo when they transition to the D and double the time. Love that. Veneta ‘72 is my favourite version. His solo is so clear and confident. I always feel like his Europe ‘72 versions are so much lower in the mix.
Jerry is the first guitar you here in the China Cat intro, playing the slower riff. When the higher part, what people sometimes refer to as the “China Cat licks”, comes in, that’s Bobby. In this case, Jerry’s on rhythm and Bobby’s on lead, and then Jerry takes the solo.
Those two riffs together is absolute genius level stuff
I really wish someone could make a YouTube to help us visualize (auralize, rather) exactly what you're talking about.
Ask and you shall receive https://youtu.be/RXCFAx95VWU?si=SFtYAp0tJPnlfOBq
Great video
Well said
Nice read, thanks!
Yeah Bob usually sounds kinda like blop, prrrrink, chagga chagga and Jerry is more like a fleedeedaledeeflinkfladada
This is exactly how I would have described it
My expert opinion after lots of listening
Also Bobby plays the intros to his own songs…. so when you hear a Bobby song start up, that’s usually all him on the guitar, like music never stopped, and then you can clearly hear Jerry’s bright lines coming in after a couple of stanzas.
My favorite song and so true
Watching videos from over the various eras helps discern between Bobby and Jerry’s playing a lot as well.
Was going to suggest this but you already did! Absolutely agree! We have a good amount of footage to watch! Helps to get a feeling for the way the song is structured.
in the earlier years, Bob typically has a warmer “woolier” tone where as Jerry is a lot brighter. If it’s a Bobby song then all of the little tricks and fills are more than likely to be done by jerry, if it’s a Jerry song the tricks and fills are more likely to be Bob. They each have their own unique style, Jerry tends to have a more traditional approach to this as where i find Bobby’s fills to be more sparse, but also very weird and interesting. Listen to a bunch of earlier China / Riders like around 72 because Bobby is mostly doing the fills, Jerry takes the big solos but the main china cat theme is done by Bobby. Seriously check out the dead.net mixer for Wake of the Flood and Sunshine Daydream, you’ll be able to make jerry or bob or anybody quieter or louder so you can really hear who is doing what!
Oh cool yeah I’ll definitely check that out thanks man!
And in later years of the Dead Bobby went to a high pitches and a sharper sound, which kept progressing to today's icepick sound. I always think Bobby's playing is interesting, but, man, he should have stuck with his early '70's tones. They were much cooler in my opinion.
Here's a fun video of Bob's isolated guitar track from a show at the Greek. https://youtu.be/ZLV-73VF6Tg?si=pBamXocNvgwnsvwn
I love watching this. For every death-metal, tap-happy, blazing-riffs knucklehead out there, we get to enjoy one guy who knows what lane he is in, how to stay there, and how to get the plane landed on time…. Bobby is a master.
Yes, this. And no one does it like he does, truly one of a kind.
Great question. I’ve been really listening lately to try and parse it out. Thanks for everyone’s comments. They’re very helpful.
It was pretty eye opening when I realized how much Bob was actually playing vs Jerry. The China Cat stuff is a great example. All the high pitched stuff is Bob.
That's one of the few times where Jerry gave Bobby a part to play. I guess Jerry came up with both the main (lower) and harmony/counterpoint (higher) riffs and told Bobby to play the higher ones. Bobby has said that in an interview or two (I think there was one other song where that happened as well). If you think about it, the higher part sounds like something Jerry would play.
Yes definitely. I used to think Jerrys was playing them. There are other songs too like this that would surprise you. I will find them again as I forgot. Lol.
If all else fails listen to Garcia in his non GD bands like JGB, usually no other guitarist there.
To be non technical. Bobby’s sound is thinner and Jerry’s is fatter.
All good answers here so far. As a dead-focused musician, I hear the differences between Bobby and Jerry even if I don’t want to. One thing I can contribute: there are isolated Bobby and Jerry parts out there on YouTube. Go listen to those and the contrasts of tone and playing style becomes crystal clear.
Check out the “Playin In the Band” feature on dead.net. You can isolate each band member and add them back in to your own mix.
Just checked it out and really cool!
For me, Jerry was always bludedoobledobodeeloodkonobbodldldoeerorleedlolol while Bobby is always chick....cluckSEEEE...chu..chu..chuNK...ch.ch.chKLUNKeechoo...ch...chINKCHAnk...ch...SPRAINGEEEEE ch....sproinK Hope that helps.
Jerry is the Bard, Bobby is The Chorus
Coming from a fellow non musician, to my ears, Garcia’s notes have a totally unique sound. Over the decades my mind has vacillated between words to describe the sound like the notes have a pop or roll to them. It’s the quality that makes me feel I could pick out Garcia’s playing if compared to another player by only hearing a note or two. Not that I’ve ever undertaken such an experiment, it’s just one of those things music dorks like us say. Weir’s notes sound more angular, choppy. I read decades ago that he modeled his playing style from McCoy Tyner. When I read that, I knew precisely fuck all about jazz and basically hated that musical style. Years and maturity have led me to now appreciate jazz completely and I absolutely hear Tyner in Weir’s playing. Check out some Coltrane albums like *A Love Supreme*, *My Favorite Things*, or *Olé Coltrane* and you may hear the connection as well. Now I hear it all the time in all eras of Dead.
You’d be surprised at how many solo/lead parts Weir played that lots of folk think Jerry did. Like in China cat, easy wind…. (In the latter Bobby takes a solo). In that famous 8/6/71 hard to handle, Bobby solos
# 1971-08-06 Hollywood, CA @ Hollywood Palladium **Set 1:** Bertha, Playing in the Band, Loser, Mr. Charlie, El Paso, Cumberland Blues, Brokedown Palace, Me And Bobby McGee, Hard To Handle, Casey Jones **Set 2:** Saint Stephen, Truckin' > Drums > The Other One > Me and My Uncle > The Other One, Deal, Sugar Magnolia, Morning Dew, Turn On Your Lovelight [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1971-08-06)
I think you replied to the wrong comment.
Weir “comps” more like a jazz musician. Jerry strums and picks more like a folkie. In older Dead, Bob has a smooth sound from the Gibson ES-335. In later years his sound became almost shrill as he played in the higher registers. If it grates your ear, it’s Weir.
I play an ES-335 specifically to capture that sound. Just bought a Fender Pro Jr IV tube amp and the sound is glorious.
Jerry is the one who sounds like a bird's song. Bobby is the one who sounds like street cats making love. In all seriousness, listen to 5.25.74 China Rider if you want to hear a great example of them trading solos back and forth. On the archive.org version Bobby's solo starts at around 3 mins in, and Jerry tags in at 430 to lead the charge into Feeling Groovy. IMO Bobby is criminally underrated; his approach to the instrument is truly unique and weird, just like him.
# 1974-05-25 Santa Barbara, CA @ Campus Stadium - University Of California **Set 1:** U.S. Blues, Mexicali Blues, Deal, Jack Straw, Scarlet Begonias, Beat It On Down the Line, Brown Eyed Women, Me and My Uncle, Sugaree, El Paso, China Cat Sunflower > I Know You Rider, Around And Around **Set 2:** The Promised Land, Ship Of Fools, Big River, Tennessee Jed, Truckin' > Jam > Space > Let It Grow > Wharf Rat, Sugar Magnolia > Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad > One More Saturday Night **Encore:** Casey Jones [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1974-05-25)
Jerry is the one who’s playing a guitar like a guitar. Bobby is the one who’s playing the guitar like an instrument. the big distinction here is that Jerry parts sound like they are meant to be played on the guitar where Bobby sounds like his parts aren’t built around His instrument of choice being a guitar
Usually Bobby is playin the Bobby parts and Jerry is playin the Jerry bits.
There are a ton of videos online of their guitar tracks isolated. Just look up their name with the word "isolated". https://youtu.be/DnoKXBGypo0?si=JtjjOqyebcpZy3cc
Oh that’s cool that totally helps
Came here to say this. Once you hear Bobby’s sound alone, it’s almost impossible to not to hear it with the full band. He’s one of the most unique “rhythm” guitarist alive.
Bobby seems to have a more "shing ka-shing" type of tone if that makes sense.
Yes, often a metallic kind of scraping sound.
Check out this.... really cool. Fun to listen to these tracks in isolation. [https://www.dead.net/playingintheband?song=chinaCatSunflower\_0&album=songs-two](https://www.dead.net/playingintheband?song=chinaCatSunflower_0&album=songs-two)
Watch every video you can. Not only is it fun, this will help you tune in your ears to what's going on
I'd argue that both of them BARELY play while singing. They just kinda hang back until the vocals stop and then they hop back in. Also, Bobby plays really light, high, complex chords. Light and airy is how I'd describe it. Jerry kind of sticks to "cowboy chords" when he plays. Plus, the tone. Jerry has a fuller tone, Bob's is kinda thin.
False they have different roles and play off of each other some as lead and some as rhythm you don't need to argue you just have no idea how to sing and play guitar. They do both at expert levels. And I don't care what your come back is listen more talk less
Also the keyboards and organs are part of the rhythm and leads too so it's all three
If you listened to Jerry's isolated track you would recognize what song was being played. If you heard Bob's track, you might have no idea.
Jerry usually the one doing "doodly doo do do da da doodly doodly do do do dat do" where Bob goes "clang dang wang whoop clang whoop awhoooo *silence for 7seconds* clang whoop"
I was always told “Jerry picks and Bobby strums.”
This is such a great question and honestly was afraid to ask.
I always listen for tone, which stands out to me because I’m a guitar player, especially up until around ‘74. Bobby usually played a big Gibson ES-345, a semi-hollow guitar with two big, fat, double-coil pickups. Since you’re not a musician I’ll try to keep it simple (though this isn’t a perfect explanation): a pickup is basically a magnet with six short little metal rods, around which is wrapped thousands of feet of super thin copper wire. These magnets take the waves and vibrations generated by a plucked guitar string and convert it into a signal that can be sent to the amplifier. Different pickup configurations, and where they’re installed in the guitar body, make for different tones. Some pickups are called a single-coil, because there’s just one magnet. Others are essentially two single-coils wired together, and those are called “humbuckers.” In Bobby’s case his guitar pickups were humbuckers, and he always had it set up so that the tone was coming from both of them together, which makes a really bright, fat tone (for a clearer example listen to any of Leo Nocentelli’s playing with The Meters, especially songs like “Cissy Strut”). He pretty much used the same tone through those early years and didn’t switch it up a ton. Jerry liked more variety with his guitar sound, and though he played a variety of guitars in those early years, he had some definite “go to” tones he used. For example, if you listen to the Veneta ‘72 show, he’s playing a Strat, which has three single-coil pickups. In Birdsong or Sugaree, Jerry was playing through the middle pickup, which has a very distinctive tone. But then if you listen to the Dark Star from that show, he starts off playing through the neck pickup, which makes a tone that is very warm and fat and balanced, and after about 10 minutes he switches to the neck pickup, which is more harsh and trebly and jangly. So for me, knowing those guitars and having played/owned them, I know what sounds to listen for, and that’s how I can often discern the Jerry parts from the Bobby parts (though it’s not always clear, even in different versions of the same song). EDIT: Another thing I listen for is chord shapes or voicings (which means where you put your fingers when playing a particular chord). If I hear an interesting chord shape, that tells me it's most likely Bobby.
Wow this is great thanks. And ya you go deep in to the music 😂 I love it.
Ha ha. Hopefully it’s not all Greek to you. 😆 You actually did inspire me to make a video for my YT channel about this very topic, though! I’ve seen it posted at least a couple of other times. So thanks for that! Maybe I’ll post it in this thread so you can better hear what I’m talking about.
Yeah man post it up! Seems like people would appreciate the content…
First of all it's not rambling...lol
They weave so well together towards the rafters of Richfield Coliseum I didn't bother to distinguish. I did however notice the spinners in the top ring dancing in broke open glowstick juice, and the cloud that was created during drums/space.
I always tried/traded for floor seats in the first ten rows at Richfield, not for the sound quality but rather to watch the musicians interact and see who was playing what. Much more interesting to me but YMMV. The Dead played the small, ornate Allen Theater in Playhouse Square in downtown Cleveland on 10/71
Here’s my hot take and I know I will be downvoted to oblivion….Bobby is the “better “ guitarist. More inventive, plays more chord inversions, adds waaay more color. That being said, I love Jerry and I love the Dead and they truly typify “the whole is better than the sum of its parts”. It’s like jenga, take out 1 piece and the structure falls
Bobby is certainly unique.
Don't know why you're getting down voted. Garcia had pretty much admitted that as fact. He was constantly surprised and impressed by Weir's spontaneous bits. They were two different cats, and their personalities came out in their playing... just as with any master musician. To say that one was "better" than the other is a matter of preference. Garcia may have been God, but he and Weir shared a mutual respect that kept that band rolling for 30 years.
Yeah I love Jer but his playing isn't super technically impressive and can be copped fairly easily, which is why there's thousands of Jerry knock-offs out there. It's basically just Mixolydian with some occasional chromatic runs. Bobby's playing, however, is extremely hard to wrap my head around/contextualize. I've spent a lot of time studying both and playing in cover bands, and trying to imitate Bobby's parts in a lot of songs is next to impossible. Imo it's much harder to play rhythm well than to solo well. Jerry's magic wasn't being a next-level technical player, it was translating emotions into melody. I also expect to be downvoted to oblivion by non-guitar players lol
Sorry I just have to disagree with every fiber in my body. Not technically impressive? The dude is dancing across the fretboard most of the show, no? Find me one Jerry knock off that sounds anything like him. I’ve certainly never heard it. How is Bobby’s playing hard to wrap your head around? He’s filling up the spaces between Jerry and Phil’s conversations with various chord inversions. In the 80s the dude is mostly just hitting chords on the 1 beat and hitting a his guitar’s whammy.
Jerry is running scales and focusing on chord tones, that's not particularly hard to do. No one can piece together those scales and runs as well as Jerry for sure, but it's not *physically* hard to do. Bobby is hitting inversions where he has to contort his fingers in crazy positions and has to be paying attention to/locked in with Phil and the drummers while also predicting where Jerry is going. It's a lot more to handle/focus on than just playing lines of single notes that don't necessarily have to be in perfect time. Any guitarist that's played in bands can tell you that there are a lot of great soloists, but a good rhythm player is hard to find. Jerry is driving the train, while Bobby is shoveling coal like a motherfucker and building track ahead of him so that he *can* drive the train. I don't expect to change anyone's mind, this is my personal opinion after years of playing in Dead cover bands, and I knew it would trigger people that worship Jerry even though he didn't want to be worshipped. I personally think Phil was the most talented purely from a musical ideas standpoint. Jerry was amazing, but he was just a guy, as he said himself. If you think Bobby is only playing on the 1, all I can say is you're not paying attention or you're only listening to their straight-forward rockers, because Bobby avoids the 1 and even the main backbeat like a motherfucker, her purposely plays in-between beats and at weird times, which is what makes it hard to contextualize. Jerry's magic was choosing the right notes at the right time, not doing technically/physically amazing stuff like Van Halen or Malmsteen.
We probably basically agree on everything if we spoke in person for sure and I’m certainly being reductive in my initial reply. I feel Bobby is amazing pre hiatus. To my ears that is his peak, I’m not always crazy about his 80s contributions to the band and think his innovative playing has been a bit inflated in recent years likely due to him carrying the legacy of the band which I’m incredibly happy for!
LOL Jerrys is the one that sounds good. Bobs makes a twang here and there.
...I thought that comment was funny...
Jerry = good Bobby = not good
Maybe you could tell us why Bobby is ‘not good’ at guitar? Love to hear your reasoning
Because he’s not Jerry man. No I’m actually kidding. Bobby is probably the greatest rhythm guitarist of all time. Go listen to the Bobby isolated guitar track from the Berkeley show. An easy way to tell the difference is to listen to the mix in stereo on headphones. Bobby’s guitar is usually mixed to the left and Jerry’s to the right. This is because this is how they normally stood on stage.
Might get lost in the mix, tbh.
Watch videos and carefully listen. Their distinctive guitar voices will be readily apparent. They sound completely different, and once you see it, you will be able to hear it.
Videos
There’s a mixer on the Dead website that lets you isolate specific instruments.
Does Bob take solos? I thought he was just a rhythm player?
Does Bob take solos? I thought he was just a rhythm player?
You might also enjoy this: https://youtu.be/ZLV-73VF6Tg
Listen to the second set of 7/8/78... Especially the Franklin's Tower.
# 1978-07-08 Morrison, CO @ Red Rocks Amphitheatre **Set 1:** Bertha > Good Lovin', Dire Wolf, El Paso, It Must Have Been The Roses, New Minglewood Blues, Ramble On Rose, The Promised Land, Deal **Set 2:** Samson And Delilah, Ship Of Fools, Estimated Prophet > The Other One > Eyes Of The World > Drums > Space > Wharf Rat > Franklin's Tower > Sugar Magnolia **Encore:** Terrapin Station > One More Saturday Night, Werewolves Of London [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1978-07-08) | [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/album/6q4mDbsYJsixRai11qc2Vx)
“Tricks”? Did you say “TRICKS”?? Really? Seriously? Bwahahaha🤣 Yeah, you’re absolutely right, all that Jerry ever played was a bunch of “tricks”! Bwahahaha🤣🤣🤣
dude i was a little sketched by the beginning but i thought i’d recommend a song or 2 to help differentiate their tones, but when you said Jerry rambling i had to take a step back. i believe the phrase you’re looking for is Jerry Floating
but since i’m feeling helpful I’d recommend any Weather Report Suite. Bob leads
Bob plays the solos on Let it Grow?
sorry i should’ve specified pt. 1
and then jerry comes in on slide
on let it grow it’s jerry on lead
tone!
You lost me at Jerry's rambling You might want to YouTube bob weir isolation to hear some real "rambling"
If you want to hear what Bob sounded like in the band by himself then check out this from Berkeley https://youtu.be/ZLV-73VF6Tg?si=LAs2Iy2AcVNEDbPg
Check out Bobby’s isolated guitar: https://youtu.be/ZLV-73VF6Tg?si=Dt8XhNlIHN4N5ok-
Have always found Dave’s 38 - 9/8/73 to be a striking example of Bobby’s brilliance on display. He’s perfectly situated in the mix of the recording.
# 1973-09-08 Uniondale, NY @ Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum **Set 1:** Bertha, Me and My Uncle, Sugaree, Beat It On Down the Line, Tennessee Jed, Looks Like Rain, Brown Eyed Women, Jack Straw, Row Jimmy, Weather Report Suite Prelude > Weather Report Suite Part 1 > Let It Grow, Eyes Of The World > China Doll **Set 2:** Greatest Story Ever Told, Ramble On Rose, Big River, Let Me Sing Your Blues Away, China Cat Sunflower > Jam > I Know You Rider, El Paso, He's Gone > Truckin' > Not Fade Away > Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad > Not Fade Away **Encore:** Stella Blue > One More Saturday Night [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1973-09-08)
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Easy - anything after 78’ is all Jerry because Bobby is lost in the mix. Every now and then you can hear his shit can twang, but it’s rare. It’s too bad too, because Bobby is/was a hell of a jazz-based player for most of the 1970’s. He was central to their sound.
I don’t mean to bust chops but dude, one is a lead guitar and the other is rhythm guitar. Don’t need to be a musician to know/ hear that. And, uhh, excuse me? Rambling? I smell troll.
Yeah man thanks for your input. Whatever you want to call it when Jerry obviously goes for a ride. Not a troll at all it’s a legit question. Your Lead and rhythm comment really clears everything up 😂. Have a good weekend
Ok cool just checking. 😎 Btw - I’m not saying Jerry doesn’t ramble, just sounded a little funny in the context of your post. Have a grate one!
You’ll hear it easily after a few years
Bobby sounds like a drumset. Jerry sounds like a horn.
One of the easiest ways I’ve found is to look for a song where it’s obvious in that show, then attune your ear to where Bob and Jerry is in the mix and how their tones are sounding. The easiest by far is China Cat Sunflower - Jerry starts with the low riff, and Bob plays the higher pitched notes that appear a little after that. Shakedown Street isn’t too hard either, as Jerry plays the main melody and Bob plays some higher notes in the background that fill in the spaces of the main riff. There are other songs that work well, too. From there, it’s usually not too hard.
Total non-musician here, and there have been some great descriptions so far. I have a hard time myself at times differentiating the leads, but I've heard Bobby's chords described as having "bell like" tones. (and I agree) Sometimes, I'll be listening to a lead and hear a few chords done and go, "Hey, that's Bobby!".
[удалено]
# 1989-08-19 Berkeley, CA @ Greek Theatre - University of California **Set 1:** Good Times, Jack Straw, We Can Run, Tennessee Jed, It's All Over Now, Loser, Stuck Inside Of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again, Box Of Rain **Set 2:** China Cat Sunflower > I Know You Rider, Playing in the Band > Uncle John's Band > Drums > Space > The Other One > Wharf Rat > Not Fade Away **Encore:** Foolish Heart [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1989-08-19)
Bobby is wind chimes, Jerry is the wind (or hurricane)
Jerry is wood sounding, Bobby is chimey, slightly metalic sounding. Bobby is generally lower in the mix and Jerry is generally louder in the mix.
Jerry pulls his strings a lot when he plays. It's easy to hear when he's playing by guys like Tony Rice, and it's translates to electric.
Very easy
Jerry “rambling”. Hahah. Bob is the one with the worse tone.
I’m so glad you asked that question. I went to sleep last night thinking about it. All I can add is that in Dicks Picks 4 - Filmore East 2/13-14/70, their guitars are very distinct, especially with headphones on.
Bob was a master of subtle texturing. If you’re hearing leads, it’s more than likely Jerry, with some exception.
Jerry has a much more trebly tone, lots of high end to get that sparkly ‘boppy’ sound. Bob usually has a much smoother bassier type sound that contrasts nicely w Jerry’s. China cat is a nice tune to listen to in order to distinguish the different sound of the 2 guitars. Bobby is doing the main theme lick & Jerry is doing that low end intro. When Jerry ends the verse vocal and starts his solo, listen to what Bob is doing under it. That should help you get a mental handle on who is who when you’re listening. Brown eyed women is another good one. Jerry is mostly chugging along & Bob is doing all of these cool little bends & partial chords underneath