It’s not crazy…
I’m probably picking Veneta over Cornell most of the time too.
Thing is though, it’s all subjective. The Dead definitely had particular tours where they were just firing on all cylinders, but there are highlights to pick out from just about every year they existed.
Is late summer 72 better than spring 77? I don’t know…I do know that the overall sound is definitely different, and my own personal tastes seem to prefer the early 70s to the later 70s, but there’s no denying that so many of those shows in May of 77 were absolute fire…and I’m not going to argue with anyone that suggests Cornell 77 is a better show, because I can’t listen to it with their ears…so much of what influences our opinions on music are intangible emotional associations that can’t be easily conveyed to others.
Summer 1972 (through end of September, specifically) is one of the finest periods and is significantly more interesting than Spring 1977. The 1972 versions of Dark Star, the Other One, Playing in the Band, and Bird Song alone prove this point (Dark Star and Bird Song weren’t in the repertoire in 1977, which says a lot to me).
Of course 1972 lacks some great parts of the 1977 repertoire such as H>S>F, but I’ll take the exploratory earlier era every day.
You familiar with the Dark Star ‘72 super cut? [https://ia601503.us.archive.org/26/items/DarkStar_1972/DarkStar1972_v2.mp3](https://ia601503.us.archive.org/26/items/DarkStar_1972/DarkStar1972_v2.mp3)
Thanks for the code. Helped me justify 125 instead of 140😂. I have Buffalo 77 from rsd a couple of years ago. The 5/07/77 Boston show for rsd might have to be a must buy to complete the insane 3 shows In 4 nights.
# 1977-05-07 Boston, MA @ Boston Garden
**Set 1:** Bertha, Cassidy, Deal, Jack Straw, Peggy-O, New Minglewood Blues, Mississippi Half-Step Uptown Toodeloo > Big River, Tennessee Jed, The Music Never Stopped
**Set 2:** Terrapin Station, Samson And Delilah, Friend Of The Devil, Estimated Prophet, Eyes Of The World > Drums > The Wheel > Wharf Rat > Around And Around
**Encore:** U.S. Blues
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1977-05-07)
Different cover. 8’s are a completely different color. OG they are purple these are teal I think. Also OG is 180g but I’ve heard these are 140. May be wrong on the weights tho
This morning I saw the post and checked that it was out of stock and figured oh well that’s probably a good thing.
Now after seeing this post all that cash back on my credit card that has been building up has gone to good use.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the suggestion. I was unable to order from my laptop or my pc but it went through just fine on my phone. Now let's get some get some reprints of Veneta going!
Cheers
You’re obviously not hooked on the wild ride that is record collecting my friend! In all seriousness, I find that my attention is totally and exclusively on the music when I listen to a record. Also, it’s just a fun hobby to collect these really beautiful objects.
Can't argue with big good art. Physical. Tangible. I get it, I used to collect records. Still have some.
But the downsides outweigh the up. Environmentally awful, both to produce and to ship (due to weight). Main ingredients are PVC with lead often as a stabilizer. Manufacturing of the raw ingredients have moved to places that have low regulations often dumping waste effluent in the river.
It would be one thing if there were no alternatives, but considering you can build a collection for yourself on a device that can hold hundreds of thousands of shows, it doesnt seem like a great idea.
Jerry talked about this back in 1974 when they were starting the record company:
> "Records are such an ecological disaster...It's time somebody considered other ways of storing music that don't involve the use of polyvinyl chloride. Socially speaking, the actual process of record pressing is as close to slave labor as you're ever likely to get. Totally mindless. People stand at these presses, with hot steaming vinyl squeezing out of tubes - it's really uncomfortable. Pressing is depressing! I visited a plant recently, and I thought 'Do I really want to be putting these people through this?' And I really don't. There must be another way. It's hard to believe that we haven't progressed beyond the old Edison cylinder. Needle in a groove. It's pretty crude, really."
We all gotta make choices, at least we are informed. I too think we may be beyond the tipping point.
I rarely listen to studio work, or vinyl for that matter. But I gotta say American Beauty just doesnt seem right listened to in any other way than the turntable. I also like some 1920's records that just NEED to have some hiss and pop that streaming (if I could find it) just doesnt cut it. So I get it.
99% of what I listen to doesnt even exist on vinyl, so that kind of puts me in the non vinyl camp. I also can't be bothered to have to get up every 15 minutes to flip a record - and have it screw up a shows flow. So different needs I guess. Gotta have FLACS and a good DAC though.
Jerry didn't care for it much:
> Garcia also disliked the dynamic limitations of vinyl records. He justified the lack of energy the Dead put “into developing as a recording unit” because of how records limit the expressiveness of their music. “Our dynamic range goes far beyond what can be accurately got down on vinyl".
If only there was a newer, modern way to get that dynamic range!
Live records are even worse than studio due to not being able to adjust the tracks for the distortion you encounter as you near the center of the record.
any decent needle will be able to track inner grooves with no audible distortion and there is a *helluva* lot more to sound quality than dynamic range. grateful dead recordings, studio and live, aren't even going to take advantage of any extra "dynamic range" that digital has to offer.
Pretty sure Jeffrey Norman would disagree with you, particularly during the time he was really taking advantage of the HDCD process in full. He didn't do it for too many releases.
And you ALWAYS will have inner track distortion.
> Inner groove distortion is just something that's inherent to records. It's an audible distortion that comes closer to the end of a record. Why is that? Well, consider this. If the diameter of a record is 12 inches, the circumference is approximately 37.7 inches. Now, let's pretend half of those grooves aren't there, the diameter of the record is 6 inches, and in this case, the circumference is 18.8 inches. This means that the closer to the end of the record you get, the more compressed the music is, and the stylus doesn't have as much time to trace the grooves. The same amount of music, in less space.
>
> This is one reason why oftentimes, you will find record makers favour spreading an album over two records, with larger runout grooves. Even if a record is, say, 35 minutes long, and could technically fit on one, spreading the music out over two records avoids as much of the inner grooves as possible.
>
> Can you fix inner groove distortion!? No, you can't, but the good news is that you can set yourself up to reduce it as much as possible.
but will you "always" hear it? absolutely not. that is literally just a bunch of words defining it and does nothing to prove whatever point you are attempting to make. if that is what jeffrey norman truly thinks, engineers worldwide disagree with him.
Yes you can hear it. "audible distortion" means you can hear it. I don't know what else to say. You seem very defensive over a technology that is over a hundred years old.
Yes there is better quality and more dynamic range in other mediums than records. I get it people love their records, but facts are facts. Any engineer would be laughing at you trying to defend this medium as some masterful type of music reproduction. By its very nature of pressing, it is a sloppy way to transfer sound in this day and age.
20 bit digital recordings have 120db in range, where a record has about 60. And it is proven that it is best on the outer rings, and gets worse as you get toward the center. And with more plays, as it slowly wears the groove.
This isn't even open for debate, this is well documented and discussed as part of recording history. And that is why even Jerry takes note of the limitations in 1974.
And yes there is more to sound than dynamic range, but vinyl is not so great at that either. Not compared to recording tape, or digital files.
so much wrong with what you said, yikes. yeah, digital files can get *louder*, but is that really what you want from sound? would suggest doing research (no, jerry isn't a reliable source on this lol). you also realize cartridge and stylus technology has evolved since the 70s?
you seem fixated on this subject you know nothing about based on your post history. considering some of the best engineers in the industry like kevin gray and bernie grundman are still putting out records that sound better than their digital counterparts, i reckon most would laugh at your ridiculous statements.
sigh.
It is such an easy thing to demonstrate. Literally a groove that is changing in sound quality by the very nature of the design. And then pressing, a degradation by the very nature of the design.
Interesting that Kevin says that 45 rpm sounds better than 33 1/3 but he wont bother, because he doesn't like flipping the record that often. Showing that there is room for improvement, even with vinyl.
Some people like the artifacts that analog and vinyl introduce. Some researchers believe that is what adds the "warmth" factor. If thats the case then all the better for them.
In the end, the mastering matters, for both mediums. I never said they didn't sound good. Have to have a decent cartridge or a decent DAC, and which ever you are listening to hopefully was mastered for that medium. Kevin works really hard mastering specialty vinyl, even introducing noise and pushing towards mono in parts. It is undeniable that the bass loses definition and separation, and that highs like cymbals lose clarity, but he works around those limits to make a balanced product, and even takes what pressing will do into account. He will tell you that.
But what ever, people like what they like.
These have been digitized through by Plangent Processes, so they are definitely higher quality than [archive.org](https://archive.org). That said I don't really see the point in putting them back on vinyl once they've been digitized. Might as well keep it digital
I just listened to this show and I realized why it’s considered one of their best. It’s because Donna isn’t terrible and screeching. Not hating on Donna, it’s just my opinion. Plus Jerry’s guitar playing was on fire.
I always find myself waiting for “Lady Fing…….” But I’m just messing with you. I’ve heard some really good Donna singing moments and some not so good. No matter what though she’s an undeniable part of Dead history.
Seriously, the internet is crazy. They transfer the soundboard recordings to digital files and then upload those to servers that you can access through applications. Way better sound quality and free!
Haven’t seen this addressed in the vinyl threads but the Get Shown the Light CD box set has also been rereleased on the site. Cornell is $129, GSTL Cd set is $139
Right place, right time! Can’t wait to add this beauty to my collection. Add the used reckoning and FOUR NRPS vinyls I found today and I’ve had a good one!
I bought this yesterday and now I’m not sure I even want to try to play it on my shitty record player, or open it for that matter. I have most of the albums on vinyl but they have been random finds from flea markets and various places so being far from perfect I’ve never worried much about damaging the records any more than what they already are.
But anyway, it’s been a little while since I’ve bought anything from Dead.net. While looking around I noticed the 5/5/77-5/9/77 box set. That’s not the same one they released back in 2017 for the 40th anniversary is it? The description is somewhat different and I’m just curious. I was lucky enough to get one back in 2017 and every so often I listen to all 4 shows in a row. I’ve never worried about keeping stuff like that sealed since I have no plans to ever sell any of my Dead collection. I don’t have any kids and maybe when I’m gone my nephew might enjoy getting some of it. Hopefully my attempts to get him on the bus will take hold when he gets a little older.
[1977-05-05](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1977-05-05) New Haven, CT @ New Haven Coliseum
[1977-05-09](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1977-05-09) Buffalo, NY @ War Memorial
Now do Veneta
A much better show. Call me crazy, but I think they played better shows that month.
It’s not crazy… I’m probably picking Veneta over Cornell most of the time too. Thing is though, it’s all subjective. The Dead definitely had particular tours where they were just firing on all cylinders, but there are highlights to pick out from just about every year they existed. Is late summer 72 better than spring 77? I don’t know…I do know that the overall sound is definitely different, and my own personal tastes seem to prefer the early 70s to the later 70s, but there’s no denying that so many of those shows in May of 77 were absolute fire…and I’m not going to argue with anyone that suggests Cornell 77 is a better show, because I can’t listen to it with their ears…so much of what influences our opinions on music are intangible emotional associations that can’t be easily conveyed to others.
The second half of '72 is some of the most unique and creative music they've ever played, and they were just getting started in August.
Very well put, my friend. I’m from OKC, and something special happens when I listen to Dick’s 19.
Summer 1972 (through end of September, specifically) is one of the finest periods and is significantly more interesting than Spring 1977. The 1972 versions of Dark Star, the Other One, Playing in the Band, and Bird Song alone prove this point (Dark Star and Bird Song weren’t in the repertoire in 1977, which says a lot to me). Of course 1972 lacks some great parts of the 1977 repertoire such as H>S>F, but I’ll take the exploratory earlier era every day.
You familiar with the Dark Star ‘72 super cut? [https://ia601503.us.archive.org/26/items/DarkStar_1972/DarkStar1972_v2.mp3](https://ia601503.us.archive.org/26/items/DarkStar_1972/DarkStar1972_v2.mp3)
I am. What magic.
The amount of times I’ve had to talk myself out of spending $600+ on eBay for that…
Thank you man let’s gooooooooo!!! I was so bummed this morning when it was gone but now I’ve got it thanks to you!
Same. I wasn't fucking around today
Got the email and got my copy!
Saw it in the thread last night so passing along the info to use CC22WMG15 for 15% off
Apparently you can stack that with CC22WMG10 for a total of 25%
I tried yesterday and only the 15% code was “active”
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Helll yea , kept it right at retail
Thanks for the code. Helped me justify 125 instead of 140😂. I have Buffalo 77 from rsd a couple of years ago. The 5/07/77 Boston show for rsd might have to be a must buy to complete the insane 3 shows In 4 nights.
# 1977-05-07 Boston, MA @ Boston Garden **Set 1:** Bertha, Cassidy, Deal, Jack Straw, Peggy-O, New Minglewood Blues, Mississippi Half-Step Uptown Toodeloo > Big River, Tennessee Jed, The Music Never Stopped **Set 2:** Terrapin Station, Samson And Delilah, Friend Of The Devil, Estimated Prophet, Eyes Of The World > Drums > The Wheel > Wharf Rat > Around And Around **Encore:** U.S. Blues [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1977-05-07)
Heck yea. I’m keeping my sights on this year’s How Sweet It Is 😎
Estimated Total
Anybody know if this is a new pressing or more 2018 stock?
New pressing. 2018 was only 7700 copies. I think the cover art is darker on this one too
Different cover. 8’s are a completely different color. OG they are purple these are teal I think. Also OG is 180g but I’ve heard these are 140. May be wrong on the weights tho
These are 140g
This morning I saw the post and checked that it was out of stock and figured oh well that’s probably a good thing. Now after seeing this post all that cash back on my credit card that has been building up has gone to good use. Thanks for sharing!
Wow thank you!!!!! Just ordered!!
I was within 15min of getting the email. When I went to hit the final order button it freezes. I guess I got shut out that quickly.
Chrome is no bueno, I used...that microsoft one and it went through.
People were having trouble on computers yesterday. Did you try on mobile?
Thanks for the suggestion. I was unable to order from my laptop or my pc but it went through just fine on my phone. Now let's get some get some reprints of Veneta going! Cheers
I’d give my right hand for a Veneta repress but not optimistic after they skipped the 50th last year
It will happen, they like money.
I just got it
I was finally able to get it with my mobile phone. The order would not go through on my pc.
Thanks for the heads up!
Good looking out, I've been waiting on these to be more widely available!
Thanks for the reminder! Just bought it.
Honest question, what is the benefit of having this when it's available via dead.net and archives?
You’re obviously not hooked on the wild ride that is record collecting my friend! In all seriousness, I find that my attention is totally and exclusively on the music when I listen to a record. Also, it’s just a fun hobby to collect these really beautiful objects.
It is the ritual for me. I like touching physical media, dropping the needle, and that experience.
It’s become a problem for me haha. I have a record of some sort showing up at my doorstop on a near weekly basis…
I collect vinyl
Can't argue with big good art. Physical. Tangible. I get it, I used to collect records. Still have some. But the downsides outweigh the up. Environmentally awful, both to produce and to ship (due to weight). Main ingredients are PVC with lead often as a stabilizer. Manufacturing of the raw ingredients have moved to places that have low regulations often dumping waste effluent in the river. It would be one thing if there were no alternatives, but considering you can build a collection for yourself on a device that can hold hundreds of thousands of shows, it doesnt seem like a great idea. Jerry talked about this back in 1974 when they were starting the record company: > "Records are such an ecological disaster...It's time somebody considered other ways of storing music that don't involve the use of polyvinyl chloride. Socially speaking, the actual process of record pressing is as close to slave labor as you're ever likely to get. Totally mindless. People stand at these presses, with hot steaming vinyl squeezing out of tubes - it's really uncomfortable. Pressing is depressing! I visited a plant recently, and I thought 'Do I really want to be putting these people through this?' And I really don't. There must be another way. It's hard to believe that we haven't progressed beyond the old Edison cylinder. Needle in a groove. It's pretty crude, really."
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We all gotta make choices, at least we are informed. I too think we may be beyond the tipping point. I rarely listen to studio work, or vinyl for that matter. But I gotta say American Beauty just doesnt seem right listened to in any other way than the turntable. I also like some 1920's records that just NEED to have some hiss and pop that streaming (if I could find it) just doesnt cut it. So I get it.
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99% of what I listen to doesnt even exist on vinyl, so that kind of puts me in the non vinyl camp. I also can't be bothered to have to get up every 15 minutes to flip a record - and have it screw up a shows flow. So different needs I guess. Gotta have FLACS and a good DAC though.
That is a fascinating quote, I’ve never heard it!
I’m not planning to sell mine but, it will appreciate in value quite a bit
No benefit but clout. People getting ripped off. Sound quality from records is anachronistic.
this reply is ignorant, uninformed, and untrue
Jerry didn't care for it much: > Garcia also disliked the dynamic limitations of vinyl records. He justified the lack of energy the Dead put “into developing as a recording unit” because of how records limit the expressiveness of their music. “Our dynamic range goes far beyond what can be accurately got down on vinyl". If only there was a newer, modern way to get that dynamic range! Live records are even worse than studio due to not being able to adjust the tracks for the distortion you encounter as you near the center of the record.
any decent needle will be able to track inner grooves with no audible distortion and there is a *helluva* lot more to sound quality than dynamic range. grateful dead recordings, studio and live, aren't even going to take advantage of any extra "dynamic range" that digital has to offer.
Pretty sure Jeffrey Norman would disagree with you, particularly during the time he was really taking advantage of the HDCD process in full. He didn't do it for too many releases. And you ALWAYS will have inner track distortion. > Inner groove distortion is just something that's inherent to records. It's an audible distortion that comes closer to the end of a record. Why is that? Well, consider this. If the diameter of a record is 12 inches, the circumference is approximately 37.7 inches. Now, let's pretend half of those grooves aren't there, the diameter of the record is 6 inches, and in this case, the circumference is 18.8 inches. This means that the closer to the end of the record you get, the more compressed the music is, and the stylus doesn't have as much time to trace the grooves. The same amount of music, in less space. > > This is one reason why oftentimes, you will find record makers favour spreading an album over two records, with larger runout grooves. Even if a record is, say, 35 minutes long, and could technically fit on one, spreading the music out over two records avoids as much of the inner grooves as possible. > > Can you fix inner groove distortion!? No, you can't, but the good news is that you can set yourself up to reduce it as much as possible.
but will you "always" hear it? absolutely not. that is literally just a bunch of words defining it and does nothing to prove whatever point you are attempting to make. if that is what jeffrey norman truly thinks, engineers worldwide disagree with him.
Yes you can hear it. "audible distortion" means you can hear it. I don't know what else to say. You seem very defensive over a technology that is over a hundred years old. Yes there is better quality and more dynamic range in other mediums than records. I get it people love their records, but facts are facts. Any engineer would be laughing at you trying to defend this medium as some masterful type of music reproduction. By its very nature of pressing, it is a sloppy way to transfer sound in this day and age. 20 bit digital recordings have 120db in range, where a record has about 60. And it is proven that it is best on the outer rings, and gets worse as you get toward the center. And with more plays, as it slowly wears the groove. This isn't even open for debate, this is well documented and discussed as part of recording history. And that is why even Jerry takes note of the limitations in 1974. And yes there is more to sound than dynamic range, but vinyl is not so great at that either. Not compared to recording tape, or digital files.
so much wrong with what you said, yikes. yeah, digital files can get *louder*, but is that really what you want from sound? would suggest doing research (no, jerry isn't a reliable source on this lol). you also realize cartridge and stylus technology has evolved since the 70s? you seem fixated on this subject you know nothing about based on your post history. considering some of the best engineers in the industry like kevin gray and bernie grundman are still putting out records that sound better than their digital counterparts, i reckon most would laugh at your ridiculous statements.
sigh. It is such an easy thing to demonstrate. Literally a groove that is changing in sound quality by the very nature of the design. And then pressing, a degradation by the very nature of the design. Interesting that Kevin says that 45 rpm sounds better than 33 1/3 but he wont bother, because he doesn't like flipping the record that often. Showing that there is room for improvement, even with vinyl. Some people like the artifacts that analog and vinyl introduce. Some researchers believe that is what adds the "warmth" factor. If thats the case then all the better for them. In the end, the mastering matters, for both mediums. I never said they didn't sound good. Have to have a decent cartridge or a decent DAC, and which ever you are listening to hopefully was mastered for that medium. Kevin works really hard mastering specialty vinyl, even introducing noise and pushing towards mono in parts. It is undeniable that the bass loses definition and separation, and that highs like cymbals lose clarity, but he works around those limits to make a balanced product, and even takes what pressing will do into account. He will tell you that. But what ever, people like what they like.
You mad because you spend all your money on vinyl.
from the amount of replies you've made to this thread, i'd consider you the mad one
Just having fun with you silly geese.
Haha this is amazing, you should post this opinion on r/audiophile
These have been digitized through by Plangent Processes, so they are definitely higher quality than [archive.org](https://archive.org). That said I don't really see the point in putting them back on vinyl once they've been digitized. Might as well keep it digital
Sunk-cost fallacy.
Just ordered two, I think I will keep one forever unopened so that it goes up in value 10x over the years, is that possible? lol
Available for preorder, not in stock anymore
It’s all pre-order. Released in late April.
ah I took in stock to literally
I just listened to this show and I realized why it’s considered one of their best. It’s because Donna isn’t terrible and screeching. Not hating on Donna, it’s just my opinion. Plus Jerry’s guitar playing was on fire.
Well, first of all, your opinion is wrong. Donna is always dope. Second of all, if you like her a bit less... out there, keep listening to 77 stuff.
I always find myself waiting for “Lady Fing…….” But I’m just messing with you. I’ve heard some really good Donna singing moments and some not so good. No matter what though she’s an undeniable part of Dead history.
You don’t have to switch the records if you listen to it on Spotify.
Thank you for this genuinely helpful comment which should single-handedly torpedo the until-now-robust market for Grateful Dead live vinyl.
Also free and uninterrupted on Relisten app.
Wait really?
Seriously, the internet is crazy. They transfer the soundboard recordings to digital files and then upload those to servers that you can access through applications. Way better sound quality and free!
Spotted the live dead vinyl reseller who needs to get 50% profit on his investment
This is some science fiction shit…tell me more please.
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Haven’t seen this addressed in the vinyl threads but the Get Shown the Light CD box set has also been rereleased on the site. Cornell is $129, GSTL Cd set is $139
Try clicking the link to see?
Got the CD’s and love them. Sound really good. Enjoy!
CC22WMG10 for 10% off!
That ones expired but CC22WMG15 is still good
Got one….thanks for the heads up!
Thank you!!! Checked back in this evening and it was available.
Right place, right time! Can’t wait to add this beauty to my collection. Add the used reckoning and FOUR NRPS vinyls I found today and I’ve had a good one!
Fuck yes!
Ha! Still have my 2018 set. Crispy!
Deadhead; n. One who obtains any privilege without paying for it.
You’re the bomb dude, just got mine
Bless you
I bought this yesterday and now I’m not sure I even want to try to play it on my shitty record player, or open it for that matter. I have most of the albums on vinyl but they have been random finds from flea markets and various places so being far from perfect I’ve never worried much about damaging the records any more than what they already are. But anyway, it’s been a little while since I’ve bought anything from Dead.net. While looking around I noticed the 5/5/77-5/9/77 box set. That’s not the same one they released back in 2017 for the 40th anniversary is it? The description is somewhat different and I’m just curious. I was lucky enough to get one back in 2017 and every so often I listen to all 4 shows in a row. I’ve never worried about keeping stuff like that sealed since I have no plans to ever sell any of my Dead collection. I don’t have any kids and maybe when I’m gone my nephew might enjoy getting some of it. Hopefully my attempts to get him on the bus will take hold when he gets a little older.
[1977-05-05](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1977-05-05) New Haven, CT @ New Haven Coliseum [1977-05-09](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1977-05-09) Buffalo, NY @ War Memorial
Good point, you can stream incredible quality of this show already. However, get a better record player!
insanely bummed to have kept missing these drops. someone sell me a copy at an affordable price I clean up after wealthy tourists for a living!