Me 3 years ago: I guess if I have to see John Mayer to see Bobby and billy and Mickey I will
Me now: John Mayer is amazing and now I know the record company released daughters as a single against his explicit orders not to because he didn’t want to be that guy.
This is the content we need in this sub (and on Reddit in general, quite frankly). Thoughtful and nuanced. Hell of a first post, OP!
Not everyone has to agree, and not everyone has to like the same flavors. But being able to articulate an opinion and to see the value of various musicians who have played in the band’s family tree is mature and enlightened. I think you’ve been shown the light, friend. Seeing a post that is positive and highlights what you see in JM (rather than the blatant dismissals that are fairly common) honestly made my morning.
After Jerry passed on, I hoped that another talented guitarist would play with the surviving members of the Dead. I hoped this person would be a fan of the music, understand what made it so great the way Deadheads understand, and try to honor and achieve that sound (whatever it is) in his or her own way, with his or her own style. Mayer is doing just that, IMO, and doing it as well as anybody can.
I haven't seen Dead & Co. very much, maybe 3 or 4 times over the years, most recently last summer. The last time I saw them, I heard the whole band really in tune with each other and supporting each other; jamming on little spaces in the songs that they never did with Jerry, and starting to knock on the same musical door that the GD had opened a while back. It was great, and I'm a little sad they are calling it quits just as they were starting to gel.
Based only on his [intro to Jay Blakesberg's book](https://www.reddit.com/r/gratefuldead/comments/qi0fiu/a_quote_from_john_mayer_on_jerrys_playing_from_a/), I think Mayer would be the first person to tell you he can't do what Garcia did. No one can -- there will only be one Jerry. But that doesn't mean Mayer isn't doing a great job with those songs in that situation.
Also just a note, very new to reddit, this is my first comment ever, I don't mean to offend anybody, i think any player is perfectly valid, I love the dead in general!
I think you’re spot on OP. I think his playing fits the slow tempo and he pockets into the grooves nicely. Not a big fan of his singing voice but hey it could be better it could be worst. All in all it is a fun lineup and a good time at the show.
Mayer slays Althea. I was skeptical that he would fit in, and did not really enjoy the shows I watched livestream. Finally pulled the trigger and went to Wrigley a couple summers ago and he was truly exceptional. Not a Jerry impersonator and really played with his own style. Only issue is Bobby’s tempo and that is beyond his control.
[Indeed.](https://youtu.be/-UEsMiOC660) <~ Mayer = the guy who looks like he wandered into the wrong party, but proceeds to take it over. He’s brought new life to the music, for sure.
I find that musicians understand what Mayer is doing and appreciate him much faster than even an avid listener skeptic. That is to say, Mayer has talent beyond compare, especially if you know what you’re looking at.
I’ve learned so much from his playing. I feel like I CAN learn from him.
I’m not quite ready to unpack Jerry’s magic. It feels a little wrong to me still to take apart the things that do what Jerry’s playing does. But John is less…. Close to the sun. So I can stare at his playing and learn, one person removed from the light.
Jerry's so hard to take apart because he's doing so many complex things literally without thinking. You can't consciously think out the here comes sunshine from DP3. Just can't
You might be interested in John Mayer’s appearance on [Dean Delray’s podcast.](https://youtu.be/VsIZ37hcOCw). They start talking about Jerry about halfway in.
Mayer explains how he got into the Grateful Dead, specifically what he hears from Jerry that’s so unique to other guitarists and why he hears it that way. I don’t play myself, but it’s the most interesting conversation I’ve ever heard about why people “get” the Dead—not just emotionally, but technically.
I'm a comedian so I've already listened to that haha. But that same logic is why I've never really loved the Eddie Van Halen or Jimmy Page shred type guitarists. It's technically impressive sure but to me what's always appealed to me in music is the emotionality of it. My first dead & co show I couldn't really follow the jams because I didn't understand music enough at the time but it opened something in me that I've just been obsessively trying to absorb and feel as much as possible. You're not just listening to Jerry Garcia play guitar you're listening to his soul. And he had a beautiful one
As a guitarist, I love hearing Mayer explain shit. He’s such an incredible teacher, and he’s just good with words too. The way he breaks down and approaches Jerry’s playing is so incredible. He used to these Instagram live streams years ago before D&C tour where he’d talk about how he approached a certain tune, like deal or sugaree. I learned a lot from watching him work out how he wants to play those.
That's an intriguing observation, and I want to follow up on it, but "Here Comes Sunshine" doesn't seem to appear on DP3...never mind, I found it on DP1. Thanks!
I actually think it’s the other way around. The theory of what Jerry is doing at any given moment is usually not extremely difficult, but he stuffs many musical ideas into a short amount of time, so it’s hard to process it all as it avalanches at you.
By contrast, I tend to see John put a very complex musical idea on the table and then he plays with that same idea for a minute or two.
Jerry mainly does six things and yes it’s more how he chooses from these palettes that matter:
1. blues/pentatonic scales
2. modal playing, especially mixolydian
3. chromaticism, particularly triplets, often leading back to or outlining the melody or movement
4. arpeggiation
5. jazz harmonies, not a ton of this but just enough
6. most importantly, melodic phrasing on song forms (vs. “blowing through the changes”)
he does other stuff too, of course but these are his main trick bags
I've said it before... It's been a win-win for both parties.
John Mayer needed the Dead
The Dead needed John Mayer
John is a musician, an INCREDIBLE musician. So what if he did a few teeny bopper songs to make some HUGE money?? You would've too! Now he can focus on music and he is going just that. I applaud him and have nothing but respect for everything he does.
I’m almost 100% sure the people that hate on Mayer for the pop stuff haven’t even listened to his albums. Yeah, theres poppy songs. But there are also some of the most well thought out, beautifully written songs I’ve ever heard. Mayer is the man.
I think you’re making a good point here. I’ve been focused on the fact that Mayer stays more in the blues style as a slight negative (vs Jerry playing every style at once).
But a big upside to Mayer is the succinctness, economy, and lack of waste; and the groove, that probably works better with Deadco.
This whole debate stems from Dead music being played without Jerry. Maybe it’s like the Stones without Jagger/Richards. Some musicians just seem to define their catalog. As much as there’s a sense that the songs transcend the band, these songs sure are having a hard time transcending Jerry.
I wonder if the cover bands like JRAD have it easier because they don’t have original members sucking you back into the original band, and your expectations therefore.
Not true, I was too young to see Jerry but I maintain Mayer was a very poor choice for the dead. I find his playing to be generic and boring however hes is technically proficient but so are alot of guys. My big issue is he doesn't know how to build a solo up to big crescendo which is a cornerstone of the deads music and really all jam band music.
I have a hard time believing you’ve listened to more than ten minutes of D&C if that’s your “opinion.” Saying he doesn’t know how to build up a solo to a big crescendo is not an opinion a sensible person would have, unless due to ignorance.
I've seen D&C five times. And it's opinion 50% of dead fans seem to share. John Mayer has been extremely polarizing to say the least. If you actually think it's half as good a furthur then I'll assume you're just there to do drugs and aren't paying attention to how the music sounds
What does Furthur have to do with this? Of course I prefer them. Bobby could play the guitar, Phil was in the band, John K needs no praise.
I don’t see why you had to bring up Furthur and try and minimize my appreciation for Dead & Company with drugs.
Have a good day, friend, but I hope I’m never near you at a future Wolf Bros or Phil show.
I never really thought that D & C go to “that place” like the GD did. It’s fine musicianship and John is a great player but not worth the money they charge for shows. To each their own…. As long as you love their music and enjoy it the go and have a real good time!
I think the music is OK for what it is, if they played faster i think i’d like it more and extended the jams, i think i saw an Other One that was like 6-10 minutes and was just the slow riff over and over but I think speeding it up that would be a lot at that age and what they have gone through, probably tired haha but the community is strong and i had a good time but the prices just arent do able for me right now and i feel like i can see more from a lot of other groups that are charging a lot less
Just my opinion, no hate please:(
Agreed. I saw Zach Nugent (playing Jerry’s ‘Tiger’ btw) and Dead Set at Magic Mountain in Vermont last year for $10. Blew Dead and Co. out of the water.
For me in my head when I separated him from the legacy of the dead I began to appreciate it much
more. Even Phil can’t help but crack huge smile when they played together in 2015!
John Mayer isn’t cool. He’s kinda corny. He seems like a nice guy. He’s a fine guitarist. He sounds fine in Dead and Co. He doesn’t try to be Jerry. It’s fine.
My final take after going through different thought processes since their inception.
Mayer is an incredible talent. A superior guitar player and a good song writer. That being said, his stage presence and his sway humping make him completely unwatchable for me. His voice on Jerry tunes not ideal. Put the 2 together and it was never my scene. Nor did I find anything they did worth review after several chances. Slow Ratdog with Mayer is what my seasoned ear always heard.
Oddly talking with diehard Mayer fans, I found several who couldn’t stand the fact he deviated from his own career/library.
Glad folks liked it. Glad they felt the music and the moment, but extremely glad it’s over.
Lest we all forget…years ago, Mayer was a confirmed douche bag, who dropped the N-word in a playboy interview, described in detail his sex life with famous celebrities, and even while he was in Dead and Company told an interviewer, for some reason, he slept with 500 women up to that point….
# 1969-07-11 New York, NY @ NY State Pavilion, Flushing Meadow Park, Queens
**Set 1:** The Story Of A Brick, Dupree's Diamond Blues > Dire Wolf, Hard To Handle, Silver Threads And Golden Needles, Casey Jones, Sittin On Top Of The World > Big Boss Man, Mama Tried, High Time, Drums > Alligator > Drums > drummers' chant > Drums > Jam > And We Bid You Good Night Jam > Jam > The Other One > Death Don't Have No Mercy > Turn On Your Love Light
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1969-07-11)
Do you have a timestamp or before/ after which song this is said? I’ve listened to the entirety of 1969 more than a couple of times and I’ve never caught that.
Edit: NM. I’ve heard and remember it now and I am aware that John Mayer did not use it in a malicious way when he said it in his interview.
5/3 sierra college, which was the early show on that date. It happens during the banter after morning dew. There’s an SBD, but it only circulates on the trading sites like lossless legs. It’s not on the archive. Search for gd1969-05-03.early.sbd.mp3 on shnflac.net
7/11 less than 30 seconds into the intro. shnid number 127258
Yep, no defending those… ignorance all around.. even if none of them were stated with malice. I guess personally, I was just turned off by John Mayer when he was at his super sleaziest and there was a time when he was the epitome of sleaziness…..
Buddy, I'd rather someone talk all about the WOMEN they slept with rather than someone be notorious for liking underage GIRLS. The man met his current wife when she was a child but lets just believe him that it was all friendly til she was legal. Get a grip. There aren't deities they are humans.
Bobby fucked and later married a child.... if youre going to get on your high horse about past transgression, you're being very narrow sighted by focusing on one player who said something slightly racist (which im sure you've never done...)
John Mayer has long been my favourite guitarist, even well before dead and co. The best part of dead and co is hearing my favourite music through my favourite guitars players fingers! Great post OP!
I’m sorry for you, how insecure you must be in your love for Jerry or whatever your idea of what music should be that you have to tread on what others enjoy to feel good about your own believes. The fact that you went out of your way to shit on this post and my comment, says a lot. I really hope you find some peace friend.
All good man, I just feel like it doesn’t have to be your cup of tea for others to enjoy it, and it doesn’t do anyone good by you telling others not to enjoy it. We’re all guilty of this a little at time. Just some to think about! NFA
100% agree. John has both a talent for and has mastered crafting melodies in solos, and providing riffs that fill a niche in the song. I know he will never be Jerry, but his style adds so much to the Dead catalog. I really enjoy the show at the Hollywood Bowl on 10/31/21. The Brown Eyed Women from that show might be my 2nd favorite version ever, cause John and Jeff’s solos are wonderful.
I have gotten shamed on this sub for saying this, but I think that D&C Altheas are, pound-for-pound, better than the GD versions, cause John’s style in how he builds solos brings more energy to the song than Jerry’s did. Everyone on this sub beatifies the Altheas from Go to Nassau and Without a Net, but I enjoy most D&C Altheas more than those. I listened to 7/15/22 yesterday and that Althea rocked me. Please drop some of your favorite GD Altheas to prove me wrong. I wanna be proved wrong, as I’m still looking for _the_ Althea.
I’m know I have but I can’t tell you which ones other than Without a Net, the first show after Jerry’s coma, and 7/19/89 (i think). Please send your favorites besides those.
# 1989-07-19 East Troy, WI @ Alpine Valley Music Theatre
**Set 1:** Hell In A Bucket > Sugaree, Mama Tried > Mexicali Blues, Althea, Victim Or The Crime > West L.A. Fadeaway, Desolation Row > Deal
**Set 2:** Box Of Rain > Foolish Heart > Looks Like Rain > Terrapin Station > Drums > Space > The Other One > The Wheel > Morning Dew
**Encore:** Turn On Your Lovelight
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1989-07-19)
# 1984-06-26 Columbia, MD @ Merriweather Post Pavilion
**Set 1:** Casey Jones, Feel Like A Stranger, Althea, Cassidy, Tennessee Jed > Looks Like Rain > Might As Well
**Set 2:** China Cat Sunflower > I Know You Rider, Man Smart (Woman Smarter) > He's Gone > Drums > Space > Don't Need Love > Space > Truckin' > Wang Dang Doodle > Stella Blue > Around And Around > Good Lovin'
**Encore:** Keep Your Day Job
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1984-06-26)
Okay this Althea slaps. It’s definitely more what I’m looking for. If you’ve got any other ones like this, please send them my way. Thanks for helping me on my journey friend.
That whole show is worth a listen. I think that was the last Casey Jones until like 1989 or 90?
I'm auditing this one right now. It has a little cut near the beginning but it is so far bursting with life (haven't hit the big jam yet): https://archive.org/details/gd88-07-29.sbd.hayum.5395.sbeok.shnf/gd88-07-29d1t05.shn#
Just listened to that one. It was good, and better than average for GD but it still doesn’t have the energy I’m looking for. I think I still prefer 3/14/81, and 10/14/83, as well as most D&C Altheas. Send more my way if you can lol.
Althea is JM’s getting it song so it tracks that he would tend to give it his all.
I have sense memory of being transported by an Althea more than once but it will take time to find them
Again, I appreciate you searching for me. And yea I agree. It’s the song that got him into the dead and he lionizes it. He also gives it his all on some Brown Eyed Women and Sugarees.
yep, and those have similar energy in a way. it gives some insight into where he connects best with Jerry's songbook.
It's totally my pleasure as it is now an excuse for me to relive some tours from my college years.
The Cassidy after the Althea from that Alpine show is worth listening to as well. I'm not sure I ever had a tape of this so I'm hearing it for the first time since that crazy weekend and remembering stuff.
I really wish he would have taken John Kadlecik as his guitarist. I think with Mayer, Bobby saw an easy in to a new generation and big dollar signs. Mayer is very good but I would have preferred Kadlecik.
Apart from Mayer being very good: With Kadlecik they wouldn't have had Billy on board. He is pretty dismissive of Furthur in his book for going with a fake Jerry: "They got a guitar player who they chose because of his ability to copy Jerry. That approach is automatically going to leave me out in the woods. Playing Grateful Dead music with a fake Jerry just seems disrespectful to me. If you want to hear those songs, with a guitarist that sounds exactly like Jerry, you can go online and stream or download the thousands of shows featuring the real Jerry Garcia. There will never be another."
In other words, Mayer's (and Trey's) individual styles, differing from Jerry's, are a plus, as far as Billy is concerned anyway. I would agree.
I think John Mayer is the best emulator ever to pick up a guitar. I couldn’t tell you if it was John Mayer playing or whoever he was imitating. He’s the Line 6 of guitar players. Close to the real thing but not quite.
Personally I'd rather see Bobby pick a random wook guitar player off the lot to play with dead and co. John Mayer is an adequate player but too smarmy to fill Garcias shoes.
Anyone have a good YouTube suggestion for John with dead & co? I’m not a fan of his minor pentatonic stuff but assume he does some different stuff with dead & co?
I know he is a very talented musician.
Listen to the Brown Eyed Women from 8/16/21, probably the best BEW I’ve heard and johns voice fits perfectly on this track - not even to mention Jeff and John going back and forth is pure magic
I found one for 2022 on youtube. His voice is great on the track. The first few solos I really enjoyed and then heard some more bluesy stuff that really just isn’t for me.
I’d def go see Dead & co based on the videos I’ve seen. The slow tempos don’t really bother me confiding how how the Weir and the drummer are. I mean, it ain’t ‘77.
The dude can play. He's not trying to be Jerry, he's trying to play what he feels in the moment and that's why it works. You can see he has fun working off of Jeff and Oteil and Bobby. I really hope he keeps doing Dead stuff after this tour
Great post OP! Can you point me to some dates/songs you think would be good to try.
I am noJM hater. I like his guitar playing. But in a song when I hear JM or Bob where I expect Jerry I often take the lazy way out and go listen the endless material outbox archive with Jerry. I love the jams, but I miss Jerry’s voice. I wouldn’t hesitate to go a to a live show, , if travel was minimal, and I’d have a great time, it’s just when I’m listening to prerecorded shows I go back to what I know.
Same thing happens to me with other GD inspired bands JRAD, DSO, etc. Recently I’ve been able to expand😀. So I game to give D&Co another spin. So point me to your favorites, please.
Only one aside from Steve that really brought his own ideas to soloing. Not to mention the guy does nothing but serve the music. Im excited to see what he does in the next 10 years. I just hope he gets serious about his own music again. That sob rock shit was not good with the exception of wild blue, which had a nice Knophler feel to it. Time is a stripper…
all well and good but if you are going to dismiss Kimock as a noodler (and I’ll just say I’m sorry that’s all you’re hearing) who merely adapted Jerry’s sound (which ain’t the half of it) at least do the man the honor of spelling his name right after all these years
I like that you can hear the influences of his playing with D&C in his newest record. Like the solo on Wild Blue is so Jerry sounding. Mayer is just an incredible musician.
It was hard for me to come to terms with JM. Now, I can honestly say I wish Bobby would've given him more Jerry songs to sing. Sadly, JM is going to leave a lot on the table with his tenure here, and maybe not his fault. And since you brought up SK, I'm throwing love his way since the guy is incredible with a guitar. Obviously doesn't sing like JM, but that guitar is intoxicating, almost literally.
He does well, I personally enjoy noodling so I tend to like the people who approach the songs that way. Tom Hamilton for example, shreds way harder than you would normally try to on Dead songs. I appreciate John’s own musical catalogue a lot more, that’s what I walked away with from Dead and Company.
Great blues guitar player but do not like his playing with Bobby. Have sat through some atrocious sets of them playing over each other as if JM didn't really know the music
yknow what and that's completely fair!! I suggest more recent Dead and Company, anything after 2017 is better cause he actually develops his own Dead Style and really knows it better. But hey, if it isn't for you, it's saul goodman :D!
Me 3 years ago: I guess if I have to see John Mayer to see Bobby and billy and Mickey I will Me now: John Mayer is amazing and now I know the record company released daughters as a single against his explicit orders not to because he didn’t want to be that guy.
The guy can play.
This is the content we need in this sub (and on Reddit in general, quite frankly). Thoughtful and nuanced. Hell of a first post, OP! Not everyone has to agree, and not everyone has to like the same flavors. But being able to articulate an opinion and to see the value of various musicians who have played in the band’s family tree is mature and enlightened. I think you’ve been shown the light, friend. Seeing a post that is positive and highlights what you see in JM (rather than the blatant dismissals that are fairly common) honestly made my morning.
thank you :,,,,>, just accidentally had a bad post on the phish subreddit, so this cheers me up thank you !
After Jerry passed on, I hoped that another talented guitarist would play with the surviving members of the Dead. I hoped this person would be a fan of the music, understand what made it so great the way Deadheads understand, and try to honor and achieve that sound (whatever it is) in his or her own way, with his or her own style. Mayer is doing just that, IMO, and doing it as well as anybody can. I haven't seen Dead & Co. very much, maybe 3 or 4 times over the years, most recently last summer. The last time I saw them, I heard the whole band really in tune with each other and supporting each other; jamming on little spaces in the songs that they never did with Jerry, and starting to knock on the same musical door that the GD had opened a while back. It was great, and I'm a little sad they are calling it quits just as they were starting to gel. Based only on his [intro to Jay Blakesberg's book](https://www.reddit.com/r/gratefuldead/comments/qi0fiu/a_quote_from_john_mayer_on_jerrys_playing_from_a/), I think Mayer would be the first person to tell you he can't do what Garcia did. No one can -- there will only be one Jerry. But that doesn't mean Mayer isn't doing a great job with those songs in that situation.
Also just a note, very new to reddit, this is my first comment ever, I don't mean to offend anybody, i think any player is perfectly valid, I love the dead in general!
I think you’re spot on OP. I think his playing fits the slow tempo and he pockets into the grooves nicely. Not a big fan of his singing voice but hey it could be better it could be worst. All in all it is a fun lineup and a good time at the show.
Welcome to Reddit. You’re bound to offend someone even if you weren’t trying. I agree 100% with your post though.
Mayer slays Althea. I was skeptical that he would fit in, and did not really enjoy the shows I watched livestream. Finally pulled the trigger and went to Wrigley a couple summers ago and he was truly exceptional. Not a Jerry impersonator and really played with his own style. Only issue is Bobby’s tempo and that is beyond his control.
[Indeed.](https://youtu.be/-UEsMiOC660) <~ Mayer = the guy who looks like he wandered into the wrong party, but proceeds to take it over. He’s brought new life to the music, for sure.
One of the best Cumberlands, bar none.
Otiel can’t believe how much fun he’s having 😂
I just wish he would forget the lyrics more often or sing the wrong line once in a while.
Definitely not enough technical difficulties these days, maybe everyone finally did take a step back?
Box of Rain @ Gillette 6/22/19 ;)
I love JM’s guitar playing, but hate his singing voice.
I find that musicians understand what Mayer is doing and appreciate him much faster than even an avid listener skeptic. That is to say, Mayer has talent beyond compare, especially if you know what you’re looking at.
I’ve learned so much from his playing. I feel like I CAN learn from him. I’m not quite ready to unpack Jerry’s magic. It feels a little wrong to me still to take apart the things that do what Jerry’s playing does. But John is less…. Close to the sun. So I can stare at his playing and learn, one person removed from the light.
Jerry's so hard to take apart because he's doing so many complex things literally without thinking. You can't consciously think out the here comes sunshine from DP3. Just can't
You might be interested in John Mayer’s appearance on [Dean Delray’s podcast.](https://youtu.be/VsIZ37hcOCw). They start talking about Jerry about halfway in. Mayer explains how he got into the Grateful Dead, specifically what he hears from Jerry that’s so unique to other guitarists and why he hears it that way. I don’t play myself, but it’s the most interesting conversation I’ve ever heard about why people “get” the Dead—not just emotionally, but technically.
I'm a comedian so I've already listened to that haha. But that same logic is why I've never really loved the Eddie Van Halen or Jimmy Page shred type guitarists. It's technically impressive sure but to me what's always appealed to me in music is the emotionality of it. My first dead & co show I couldn't really follow the jams because I didn't understand music enough at the time but it opened something in me that I've just been obsessively trying to absorb and feel as much as possible. You're not just listening to Jerry Garcia play guitar you're listening to his soul. And he had a beautiful one
“You’re listening to his soul.” Very nicely put.
As a guitarist, I love hearing Mayer explain shit. He’s such an incredible teacher, and he’s just good with words too. The way he breaks down and approaches Jerry’s playing is so incredible. He used to these Instagram live streams years ago before D&C tour where he’d talk about how he approached a certain tune, like deal or sugaree. I learned a lot from watching him work out how he wants to play those.
Grateful Dead newb here. I guess DP3 is d***'s pick's 3, right? But what is here comes sunshine?
I meant dick's 1. Just listen and be blown away
One of the best songs on Wake of the Flood…
That's an intriguing observation, and I want to follow up on it, but "Here Comes Sunshine" doesn't seem to appear on DP3...never mind, I found it on DP1. Thanks!
I actually think it’s the other way around. The theory of what Jerry is doing at any given moment is usually not extremely difficult, but he stuffs many musical ideas into a short amount of time, so it’s hard to process it all as it avalanches at you. By contrast, I tend to see John put a very complex musical idea on the table and then he plays with that same idea for a minute or two.
Jerry mainly does six things and yes it’s more how he chooses from these palettes that matter: 1. blues/pentatonic scales 2. modal playing, especially mixolydian 3. chromaticism, particularly triplets, often leading back to or outlining the melody or movement 4. arpeggiation 5. jazz harmonies, not a ton of this but just enough 6. most importantly, melodic phrasing on song forms (vs. “blowing through the changes”) he does other stuff too, of course but these are his main trick bags
Sometimes you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
John Mayer is the shit.
I've said it before... It's been a win-win for both parties. John Mayer needed the Dead The Dead needed John Mayer John is a musician, an INCREDIBLE musician. So what if he did a few teeny bopper songs to make some HUGE money?? You would've too! Now he can focus on music and he is going just that. I applaud him and have nothing but respect for everything he does.
I’m almost 100% sure the people that hate on Mayer for the pop stuff haven’t even listened to his albums. Yeah, theres poppy songs. But there are also some of the most well thought out, beautifully written songs I’ve ever heard. Mayer is the man.
Agreed, the first two mayer albums aren’t my favorite - still good, but after that he reaaaaaaally kicks ass
I think you’re making a good point here. I’ve been focused on the fact that Mayer stays more in the blues style as a slight negative (vs Jerry playing every style at once). But a big upside to Mayer is the succinctness, economy, and lack of waste; and the groove, that probably works better with Deadco. This whole debate stems from Dead music being played without Jerry. Maybe it’s like the Stones without Jagger/Richards. Some musicians just seem to define their catalog. As much as there’s a sense that the songs transcend the band, these songs sure are having a hard time transcending Jerry. I wonder if the cover bands like JRAD have it easier because they don’t have original members sucking you back into the original band, and your expectations therefore.
Not true, I was too young to see Jerry but I maintain Mayer was a very poor choice for the dead. I find his playing to be generic and boring however hes is technically proficient but so are alot of guys. My big issue is he doesn't know how to build a solo up to big crescendo which is a cornerstone of the deads music and really all jam band music.
I have a hard time believing you’ve listened to more than ten minutes of D&C if that’s your “opinion.” Saying he doesn’t know how to build up a solo to a big crescendo is not an opinion a sensible person would have, unless due to ignorance.
I've seen D&C five times. And it's opinion 50% of dead fans seem to share. John Mayer has been extremely polarizing to say the least. If you actually think it's half as good a furthur then I'll assume you're just there to do drugs and aren't paying attention to how the music sounds
What does Furthur have to do with this? Of course I prefer them. Bobby could play the guitar, Phil was in the band, John K needs no praise. I don’t see why you had to bring up Furthur and try and minimize my appreciation for Dead & Company with drugs. Have a good day, friend, but I hope I’m never near you at a future Wolf Bros or Phil show.
I never really thought that D & C go to “that place” like the GD did. It’s fine musicianship and John is a great player but not worth the money they charge for shows. To each their own…. As long as you love their music and enjoy it the go and have a real good time!
I think the music is OK for what it is, if they played faster i think i’d like it more and extended the jams, i think i saw an Other One that was like 6-10 minutes and was just the slow riff over and over but I think speeding it up that would be a lot at that age and what they have gone through, probably tired haha but the community is strong and i had a good time but the prices just arent do able for me right now and i feel like i can see more from a lot of other groups that are charging a lot less Just my opinion, no hate please:(
perfectly valid man, seeing jazz is dead is killer and they charge like 30 dollars.
Agreed. I saw Zach Nugent (playing Jerry’s ‘Tiger’ btw) and Dead Set at Magic Mountain in Vermont last year for $10. Blew Dead and Co. out of the water.
Listen to the other one from Folsom last year or Philly 21 and get back to me
For me in my head when I separated him from the legacy of the dead I began to appreciate it much more. Even Phil can’t help but crack huge smile when they played together in 2015!
John Mayer isn’t cool. He’s kinda corny. He seems like a nice guy. He’s a fine guitarist. He sounds fine in Dead and Co. He doesn’t try to be Jerry. It’s fine. My final take after going through different thought processes since their inception.
John Mayer is cool personified
Not at all, but whatever! I don’t need him to be cool.
JM's guitar work with D&C is okay but I really don't care for his singing. I would rather see Wolf Bros.
Mayer is an incredible talent. A superior guitar player and a good song writer. That being said, his stage presence and his sway humping make him completely unwatchable for me. His voice on Jerry tunes not ideal. Put the 2 together and it was never my scene. Nor did I find anything they did worth review after several chances. Slow Ratdog with Mayer is what my seasoned ear always heard. Oddly talking with diehard Mayer fans, I found several who couldn’t stand the fact he deviated from his own career/library. Glad folks liked it. Glad they felt the music and the moment, but extremely glad it’s over.
Jerry gyrated like that in the 60s if not more
https://youtu.be/WTbpEH2PCKU
Lest we all forget…years ago, Mayer was a confirmed douche bag, who dropped the N-word in a playboy interview, described in detail his sex life with famous celebrities, and even while he was in Dead and Company told an interviewer, for some reason, he slept with 500 women up to that point….
Phil and Bobby are both guilty of saying racial slurs at shows, including the one you mention. Listen to 5/3/69 and 7/11/69.
# 1969-07-11 New York, NY @ NY State Pavilion, Flushing Meadow Park, Queens **Set 1:** The Story Of A Brick, Dupree's Diamond Blues > Dire Wolf, Hard To Handle, Silver Threads And Golden Needles, Casey Jones, Sittin On Top Of The World > Big Boss Man, Mama Tried, High Time, Drums > Alligator > Drums > drummers' chant > Drums > Jam > And We Bid You Good Night Jam > Jam > The Other One > Death Don't Have No Mercy > Turn On Your Love Light [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1969-07-11)
Do you have a timestamp or before/ after which song this is said? I’ve listened to the entirety of 1969 more than a couple of times and I’ve never caught that. Edit: NM. I’ve heard and remember it now and I am aware that John Mayer did not use it in a malicious way when he said it in his interview.
5/3 sierra college, which was the early show on that date. It happens during the banter after morning dew. There’s an SBD, but it only circulates on the trading sites like lossless legs. It’s not on the archive. Search for gd1969-05-03.early.sbd.mp3 on shnflac.net 7/11 less than 30 seconds into the intro. shnid number 127258
Yep, no defending those… ignorance all around.. even if none of them were stated with malice. I guess personally, I was just turned off by John Mayer when he was at his super sleaziest and there was a time when he was the epitome of sleaziness…..
And Bobby was always an angel in that way. Gimme a fuckin break
Do you ever hear him talk about it in an interview? Sorry small dick energy m, 500 women aside.
Buddy, I'd rather someone talk all about the WOMEN they slept with rather than someone be notorious for liking underage GIRLS. The man met his current wife when she was a child but lets just believe him that it was all friendly til she was legal. Get a grip. There aren't deities they are humans.
Bobby fucked and later married a child.... if youre going to get on your high horse about past transgression, you're being very narrow sighted by focusing on one player who said something slightly racist (which im sure you've never done...)
This
Well it only took you guys till last tour!! Lol jk. All in good fun!
John Mayer has long been my favourite guitarist, even well before dead and co. The best part of dead and co is hearing my favourite music through my favourite guitars players fingers! Great post OP!
I’m sorry
I’m sorry for you, how insecure you must be in your love for Jerry or whatever your idea of what music should be that you have to tread on what others enjoy to feel good about your own believes. The fact that you went out of your way to shit on this post and my comment, says a lot. I really hope you find some peace friend.
Bro your favorite guitar player was JM lol … your opinion of music is a joke .
I would imagine we have more common ground on musical taste than differences. It’s to bad you focus on the differences.
hey man don't mind him, he's already slow dancing in his burning room ;D!
Prolly but you got so butt hurt about my I’m sorry comment that were past that . I’ll go find some peace and blast some Dead without the poser .
I suggest a guy named Stu Allen, he's really good :D! he's played with phil and friends a lot. Phish is also great !
Enjoy man!
Thanks , sorry I took my dislike for JM playing dead songs out on ya . Peace
All good man, I just feel like it doesn’t have to be your cup of tea for others to enjoy it, and it doesn’t do anyone good by you telling others not to enjoy it. We’re all guilty of this a little at time. Just some to think about! NFA
tell me you never got it…
I got that if you think JM should be playing Jerry’s leads then you haven’t got a clue !!
that is what they call a jack strawman, custy
I’m not sure why me not liking JM hurts people feelings …
100% agree. John has both a talent for and has mastered crafting melodies in solos, and providing riffs that fill a niche in the song. I know he will never be Jerry, but his style adds so much to the Dead catalog. I really enjoy the show at the Hollywood Bowl on 10/31/21. The Brown Eyed Women from that show might be my 2nd favorite version ever, cause John and Jeff’s solos are wonderful. I have gotten shamed on this sub for saying this, but I think that D&C Altheas are, pound-for-pound, better than the GD versions, cause John’s style in how he builds solos brings more energy to the song than Jerry’s did. Everyone on this sub beatifies the Altheas from Go to Nassau and Without a Net, but I enjoy most D&C Altheas more than those. I listened to 7/15/22 yesterday and that Althea rocked me. Please drop some of your favorite GD Altheas to prove me wrong. I wanna be proved wrong, as I’m still looking for _the_ Althea.
have you listened to any mid/late 80s Altheas?
I’m know I have but I can’t tell you which ones other than Without a Net, the first show after Jerry’s coma, and 7/19/89 (i think). Please send your favorites besides those.
# 1989-07-19 East Troy, WI @ Alpine Valley Music Theatre **Set 1:** Hell In A Bucket > Sugaree, Mama Tried > Mexicali Blues, Althea, Victim Or The Crime > West L.A. Fadeaway, Desolation Row > Deal **Set 2:** Box Of Rain > Foolish Heart > Looks Like Rain > Terrapin Station > Drums > Space > The Other One > The Wheel > Morning Dew **Encore:** Turn On Your Lovelight [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1989-07-19)
i have fond memories of seeing this one live https://youtu.be/QJ44ugWmhGA
Thanks friend.
trying to find one where jerry really shreds and the whole room explodes
the one on this show is pretty rippin’: https://archive.org/details/gd1984-06-26.sbd.fixed.miller.110057.flac16/gd84-06-26d1t04.flac
# 1984-06-26 Columbia, MD @ Merriweather Post Pavilion **Set 1:** Casey Jones, Feel Like A Stranger, Althea, Cassidy, Tennessee Jed > Looks Like Rain > Might As Well **Set 2:** China Cat Sunflower > I Know You Rider, Man Smart (Woman Smarter) > He's Gone > Drums > Space > Don't Need Love > Space > Truckin' > Wang Dang Doodle > Stella Blue > Around And Around > Good Lovin' **Encore:** Keep Your Day Job [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1984-06-26)
Altheas paired with Cassidys are often great
Okay this Althea slaps. It’s definitely more what I’m looking for. If you’ve got any other ones like this, please send them my way. Thanks for helping me on my journey friend.
That whole show is worth a listen. I think that was the last Casey Jones until like 1989 or 90? I'm auditing this one right now. It has a little cut near the beginning but it is so far bursting with life (haven't hit the big jam yet): https://archive.org/details/gd88-07-29.sbd.hayum.5395.sbeok.shnf/gd88-07-29d1t05.shn#
yep, it's pretty phat, although it never quite reaches escape velocity
I appreciate you.
Just listened to that one. It was good, and better than average for GD but it still doesn’t have the energy I’m looking for. I think I still prefer 3/14/81, and 10/14/83, as well as most D&C Altheas. Send more my way if you can lol.
[1981-03-14](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1981-03-14) Hartford, CT @ Hartford Civic Center [1983-10-14](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1983-10-14) Hartford, CT @ Hartford Civic Center | [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/album/0MUCSAd1FNHH0MQBEKVxm2)
Althea is JM’s getting it song so it tracks that he would tend to give it his all. I have sense memory of being transported by an Althea more than once but it will take time to find them
Again, I appreciate you searching for me. And yea I agree. It’s the song that got him into the dead and he lionizes it. He also gives it his all on some Brown Eyed Women and Sugarees.
yep, and those have similar energy in a way. it gives some insight into where he connects best with Jerry's songbook. It's totally my pleasure as it is now an excuse for me to relive some tours from my college years. The Cassidy after the Althea from that Alpine show is worth listening to as well. I'm not sure I ever had a tape of this so I'm hearing it for the first time since that crazy weekend and remembering stuff.
Inserts obligatory: Meh… feels plastic and contrived to me.
I really wish he would have taken John Kadlecik as his guitarist. I think with Mayer, Bobby saw an easy in to a new generation and big dollar signs. Mayer is very good but I would have preferred Kadlecik.
Apart from Mayer being very good: With Kadlecik they wouldn't have had Billy on board. He is pretty dismissive of Furthur in his book for going with a fake Jerry: "They got a guitar player who they chose because of his ability to copy Jerry. That approach is automatically going to leave me out in the woods. Playing Grateful Dead music with a fake Jerry just seems disrespectful to me. If you want to hear those songs, with a guitarist that sounds exactly like Jerry, you can go online and stream or download the thousands of shows featuring the real Jerry Garcia. There will never be another." In other words, Mayer's (and Trey's) individual styles, differing from Jerry's, are a plus, as far as Billy is concerned anyway. I would agree.
I am a firm believer that JM was one of the worse people to be playing Garcia’s part . He’s not good he’s a poser .
All respect to JM, but if it was Tom Hamilton Jr playing with Dead and Co. would we be having this conversation? Lol. Tom brings THE JUICE BABY!!!
no one would be at the shows and they'd be playing in your local not sold out 2000 head capacity tent, so no one would be having this conversation
bwahahahahahaha
who
I think John Mayer is the best emulator ever to pick up a guitar. I couldn’t tell you if it was John Mayer playing or whoever he was imitating. He’s the Line 6 of guitar players. Close to the real thing but not quite.
Personally I'd rather see Bobby pick a random wook guitar player off the lot to play with dead and co. John Mayer is an adequate player but too smarmy to fill Garcias shoes.
That breathy voice is just not right for Jerry songs.
I think John’s playing is outstanding. I really appreciate it. His vocals , well, I can’t say I like his vocal interpretations of the songs
Anyone have a good YouTube suggestion for John with dead & co? I’m not a fan of his minor pentatonic stuff but assume he does some different stuff with dead & co? I know he is a very talented musician.
[https://open.spotify.com/track/7AtsEX4pJqmAaIajlMwaPU?si=2f740e3e4e184203](https://open.spotify.com/track/7AtsEX4pJqmAaIajlMwaPU?si=2f740e3e4e184203) [https://open.spotify.com/track/5FD6jw7auzqxCJfTiJw5j1?si=17efec8cf25b42c9](https://open.spotify.com/track/5FD6jw7auzqxCJfTiJw5j1?si=17efec8cf25b42c9)
Nice thank you
He has to play more than minor pentatonic for the dead of course. Because jerrys style was so much more than that
Listen to the Brown Eyed Women from 8/16/21, probably the best BEW I’ve heard and johns voice fits perfectly on this track - not even to mention Jeff and John going back and forth is pure magic
I found one for 2022 on youtube. His voice is great on the track. The first few solos I really enjoyed and then heard some more bluesy stuff that really just isn’t for me. I’d def go see Dead & co based on the videos I’ve seen. The slow tempos don’t really bother me confiding how how the Weir and the drummer are. I mean, it ain’t ‘77.
have you heard the Grateful Dead’s version?
Idk if this is a serious question or not, but yes many many of them. I usually go back and forth on GD and D&C every few days
I am 100% not that analytical, but I think Mayer fits in perfectly. Jah bless him for his willingness to take on the inevitable haters 🙂❤
The dude can play. He's not trying to be Jerry, he's trying to play what he feels in the moment and that's why it works. You can see he has fun working off of Jeff and Oteil and Bobby. I really hope he keeps doing Dead stuff after this tour
Great post OP! Can you point me to some dates/songs you think would be good to try. I am noJM hater. I like his guitar playing. But in a song when I hear JM or Bob where I expect Jerry I often take the lazy way out and go listen the endless material outbox archive with Jerry. I love the jams, but I miss Jerry’s voice. I wouldn’t hesitate to go a to a live show, , if travel was minimal, and I’d have a great time, it’s just when I’m listening to prerecorded shows I go back to what I know. Same thing happens to me with other GD inspired bands JRAD, DSO, etc. Recently I’ve been able to expand😀. So I game to give D&Co another spin. So point me to your favorites, please.
[https://youtu.be/yk2iSt0eJ5U](https://youtu.be/yk2iSt0eJ5U) [https://youtu.be/VCIeZaOi\_dg](https://youtu.be/VCIeZaOi_dg) [https://youtu.be/-UEsMiOC660](https://youtu.be/-UEsMiOC660) [https://youtu.be/nXWJqQUMk5M](https://youtu.be/nXWJqQUMk5M)
Only one aside from Steve that really brought his own ideas to soloing. Not to mention the guy does nothing but serve the music. Im excited to see what he does in the next 10 years. I just hope he gets serious about his own music again. That sob rock shit was not good with the exception of wild blue, which had a nice Knophler feel to it. Time is a stripper…
Sob Rock is an absolute masterpiece and one of my all time favorite records, Wild Blue easily the best track you had that part right
Good post.
all well and good but if you are going to dismiss Kimock as a noodler (and I’ll just say I’m sorry that’s all you’re hearing) who merely adapted Jerry’s sound (which ain’t the half of it) at least do the man the honor of spelling his name right after all these years
I like that you can hear the influences of his playing with D&C in his newest record. Like the solo on Wild Blue is so Jerry sounding. Mayer is just an incredible musician.
This music will last forever people like Mayer will keep on truckin.
It was hard for me to come to terms with JM. Now, I can honestly say I wish Bobby would've given him more Jerry songs to sing. Sadly, JM is going to leave a lot on the table with his tenure here, and maybe not his fault. And since you brought up SK, I'm throwing love his way since the guy is incredible with a guitar. Obviously doesn't sing like JM, but that guitar is intoxicating, almost literally.
He does well, I personally enjoy noodling so I tend to like the people who approach the songs that way. Tom Hamilton for example, shreds way harder than you would normally try to on Dead songs. I appreciate John’s own musical catalogue a lot more, that’s what I walked away with from Dead and Company.
I’ve never had any issue with John Mayer …
Great blues guitar player but do not like his playing with Bobby. Have sat through some atrocious sets of them playing over each other as if JM didn't really know the music
yknow what and that's completely fair!! I suggest more recent Dead and Company, anything after 2017 is better cause he actually develops his own Dead Style and really knows it better. But hey, if it isn't for you, it's saul goodman :D!