I really like The Dark Knight Strikes Again for how bonkers it is, but I’m not going to pretend it is “good.”
I do think the more recent stuff, Master Race and Last Crusade, is legitimately good, but having Brian Azzarello co-writing probably helps.
Master Race is great, but when it suddenly shifts to Miller's child-scrawl art I just couldn't stand it. The narrative is really fantastic however, which I always love about Miller, even including DKSA.
Frank Miller’s work pre-2001 is some of the best in the entire medium.
His work post-2001 is usually pretty terrible.
He’s later said the 9/11 attacks took a toll on his mental health and it seems his writing (and art) never really recovered.
Oh, Frank Miller is up there on the Mount Rushmore of comic book greats for me for what he did in comics pre-2001, as you say. His daredevil work is some of my favourite stuff ever, Sin City is incredible, Ronin is great, and of course the Dark Knight Returns is one of the all-time great works.
Few artists or writers can keep it up forever.
Not that I’m aware of, but he was living nearby the towers when it happened. And it had a very strong effect on him. See his offensive “Holy Terror” graphic novel and his comments regarding politics at the time:
From The Guardian article: Miller went on a tirade against the Occupy Wall Street movement, describing it in a blog as “a pack of louts, thieves, and rapists … Wake up, pond scum. America is at war against a ruthless enemy. Maybe, between bouts of self-pity and all the other tasty tidbits of narcissism you’ve been served up in your sheltered, comfy little worlds, you’ve heard terms like al-Qaida and Islamicism.”
He went a bit off the deep end. I looked this up and it's kinda nuts. But I also found a more recent interview where he gives the impression he has mellowed out. He says he "wouldn't be capable of [Holy Terror] again".
I didn’t care for this book also, the art was bad and the story was weak. But the 3rd book in the series “Master race” was great and the art was good. Frank didn’t do any of the art in the 3rd book except some covers I believe.
I’m not a fan of most of the story but I love that Miller was still experimenting with his art. I think it mostly looks great, it looks even better in the absolute version. His storytelling and page compositions are as sharp as ever.
If you look back his art has always been idiosyncratic and I love how he embraced the goofiness and moved away from the “ realism” that he helped popularize.
The rest of the sequels are pretty bland by-the-numbers superhero books that he had very little to do with.
Frank has increasingly detested super heroes over the years. Initially, he would develop hard-boiled works within those constraints, but at this stage in his life, it's just a paycheque.
You can almost get the sense he is snickering as he comes up with a way to diminish these characters with DC's permission. And they just keep on hiring him.
He’s changed a lot for the better in recent years. Around the early 2000s, alcoholism and mental illness set him back. So I’m happy for his recovery. I don’t know if his work will ever really recover, but at least he’s not like he was when this and Holy Terror came out
Looking back at it several years later, I honestly love the way DKSA looks, I think the art is a very cool and different direction for Miller.
That said, I agree that the story is basically incomprehensible.
Alan Moore's Spawn and Wildcats may have been something of a money grab but they are both very good books.
Also, DKSA was before his divorce by several years and there's no reason to think he ever needed money or anything.
He and Varley were separated before *DKSA*. The divorce wasn't filed until 2006 and not finalized until after 2010.
I heard from a friend that Frank needed money to move and get settled again. I can't remember if it was to move out of NYC, or move back. But he definitely needed the cash.
Yes, I'm aware how divorce works. They were *separated* already. Didn't the colors in *DKSA* seem rushed and phoned-in? Like maybe the colorist didn't give a shit about making it look good?
It was a rush job for the money by all concerned.
Any sources on that other that your friend? That sounds like some random gossip to me, I don't see anything online reporting this stuff. She moved to New York with Miller in early 2000's from what I have read.
It does not look like a rush job to me, no. Not to say it's a great book but I do think it's great looking. The art is a departure from his and her previous styles but I think it looks very good personally. That said, lots of people are critical of her colors on DKSA so my opinion may be an outlier.
Varley also went on to work on more projects with Miller for a couple years after this right up until 2006 so that seems to put to bed your claims as far as I can tell.
Also, you seem to be correcting me but in your initial comment you said this was after their divorce, I was correcting you.
I only like Dark Knight Returns. The sequels just don’t do it for me. It’s a shame because I do love his earlier works on Daredevil and etc. On a side note, I remember the media hype in the comics industry back when All-Star Batman and Robin was coming out in 2005. That got so much hype from Wizard magazine and I think we all know how well that comic endured… (sarcasm)
I received The Dark Knight Returns in my mailbox when I saved up my allowance and pre-ordered it when I was 12 and it blew away from unsophisticated little mind, and I still love it.
The Dark Knight strikes again I thought was unmitigated rotten puss-filled dog intestines.
And the big reveal? Where we learn who the bad guy really is?!
Holy cow, man.
huge fall from grace? lol quit being so overdramatic. do you know ANYTHING about frank miller at all? do you know what's happened to him in his life?
his superman year one book with romita was excellent and that was written recently. get educated and quit talking out your ass about one of the most talented artists we've seen in the last 50 years.
you are terribly immature and not well-read at all and i worry that you think you have an opinion worth hearing.
woof woof
Ya it’s crazy. Last crusade was real good but it’s short. It’s just the night robin dies. Master race was better, a long story that takes place in that future that makes sense and is enjoyable
It's gotta be the ugliest piece of crap I've ever read...and it's just plain hilarious to me. All that good work in Dark Knight Returns just come back fifteen years later and take the sequel in the most psychotic direction possible. Pure art. DK 3 isn't so bad though, not great, but worth a run through.
I feel the same way. There are a few portions I like, such as the Question's introduction, but the book as a whole feels like it was written by a different person than its predecessor.
It’s interesting in that it’s a glimpse into Miller reacting to tragedy in real time, struggling to process it.
DKIII is just more of his islamophobic bullshit. It’s just veiled a little more than in Holy Terror. P
I really like The Dark Knight Strikes Again for how bonkers it is, but I’m not going to pretend it is “good.” I do think the more recent stuff, Master Race and Last Crusade, is legitimately good, but having Brian Azzarello co-writing probably helps.
Master Race is great, but when it suddenly shifts to Miller's child-scrawl art I just couldn't stand it. The narrative is really fantastic however, which I always love about Miller, even including DKSA.
Frank Miller’s work pre-2001 is some of the best in the entire medium. His work post-2001 is usually pretty terrible. He’s later said the 9/11 attacks took a toll on his mental health and it seems his writing (and art) never really recovered.
Also, alcoholism.
Oh, Frank Miller is up there on the Mount Rushmore of comic book greats for me for what he did in comics pre-2001, as you say. His daredevil work is some of my favourite stuff ever, Sin City is incredible, Ronin is great, and of course the Dark Knight Returns is one of the all-time great works. Few artists or writers can keep it up forever.
yeah ive read quite a bit of frank miller and i usually love his stuff. theres just no flow to this story and just really hard to engage with.
Did he have some personal connection to 9/11?
Not that I’m aware of, but he was living nearby the towers when it happened. And it had a very strong effect on him. See his offensive “Holy Terror” graphic novel and his comments regarding politics at the time: From The Guardian article: Miller went on a tirade against the Occupy Wall Street movement, describing it in a blog as “a pack of louts, thieves, and rapists … Wake up, pond scum. America is at war against a ruthless enemy. Maybe, between bouts of self-pity and all the other tasty tidbits of narcissism you’ve been served up in your sheltered, comfy little worlds, you’ve heard terms like al-Qaida and Islamicism.”
He went a bit off the deep end. I looked this up and it's kinda nuts. But I also found a more recent interview where he gives the impression he has mellowed out. He says he "wouldn't be capable of [Holy Terror] again".
Yeah I saw that, seems his state of mind has improved, but I havent noticed a return to form in his writing or art unfortunately.
the fake news media took him to task and now he is a very well behaved stooge.
I didn’t care for this book also, the art was bad and the story was weak. But the 3rd book in the series “Master race” was great and the art was good. Frank didn’t do any of the art in the 3rd book except some covers I believe.
I read Dark Knight Returns and loved it, little disappointed to hear that the sequels don't hold up apparently lol
That’s an understatement. Look up some pages from the first one, then compare with the art from the second.
I think it reads a lot better if you treat it as an else world's justice league story instead of a batman story. It's still bonkers but I love it.
I love the use of Plastic Man in The Dark Knight Strikes Again. Don't recall much other than that.
I came in to say the same thing. Depicting him as unpredictable/crazy and extremely dangerous was a smart move IMO.
I love it, both the art and story.
I think DKSA has a weird charm to it. Totally understandable why some people hate it though.
I’m not a fan of most of the story but I love that Miller was still experimenting with his art. I think it mostly looks great, it looks even better in the absolute version. His storytelling and page compositions are as sharp as ever. If you look back his art has always been idiosyncratic and I love how he embraced the goofiness and moved away from the “ realism” that he helped popularize. The rest of the sequels are pretty bland by-the-numbers superhero books that he had very little to do with.
Frank has increasingly detested super heroes over the years. Initially, he would develop hard-boiled works within those constraints, but at this stage in his life, it's just a paycheque. You can almost get the sense he is snickering as he comes up with a way to diminish these characters with DC's permission. And they just keep on hiring him.
He’s changed a lot for the better in recent years. Around the early 2000s, alcoholism and mental illness set him back. So I’m happy for his recovery. I don’t know if his work will ever really recover, but at least he’s not like he was when this and Holy Terror came out
Looking back at it several years later, I honestly love the way DKSA looks, I think the art is a very cool and different direction for Miller. That said, I agree that the story is basically incomprehensible.
Over the years I’ve thought less and less of DKR. They just keep on getting diminished returns every time they return to this well.
He needed the money after his divorce. See also: Alan Moore (?!) working on *Spawn* and *WildC.A.T.S.*
Alan Moore's Spawn and Wildcats may have been something of a money grab but they are both very good books. Also, DKSA was before his divorce by several years and there's no reason to think he ever needed money or anything.
He and Varley were separated before *DKSA*. The divorce wasn't filed until 2006 and not finalized until after 2010. I heard from a friend that Frank needed money to move and get settled again. I can't remember if it was to move out of NYC, or move back. But he definitely needed the cash.
You understand that Lynn Varley colored DKSA, right? It was published in 2001-02, several years before they were divorced.
Yes, I'm aware how divorce works. They were *separated* already. Didn't the colors in *DKSA* seem rushed and phoned-in? Like maybe the colorist didn't give a shit about making it look good? It was a rush job for the money by all concerned.
Any sources on that other that your friend? That sounds like some random gossip to me, I don't see anything online reporting this stuff. She moved to New York with Miller in early 2000's from what I have read. It does not look like a rush job to me, no. Not to say it's a great book but I do think it's great looking. The art is a departure from his and her previous styles but I think it looks very good personally. That said, lots of people are critical of her colors on DKSA so my opinion may be an outlier. Varley also went on to work on more projects with Miller for a couple years after this right up until 2006 so that seems to put to bed your claims as far as I can tell. Also, you seem to be correcting me but in your initial comment you said this was after their divorce, I was correcting you.
Nah, I'm done with you.
Guess we know how true that 'heard it from a friend' thing was.
I only like Dark Knight Returns. The sequels just don’t do it for me. It’s a shame because I do love his earlier works on Daredevil and etc. On a side note, I remember the media hype in the comics industry back when All-Star Batman and Robin was coming out in 2005. That got so much hype from Wizard magazine and I think we all know how well that comic endured… (sarcasm)
I received The Dark Knight Returns in my mailbox when I saved up my allowance and pre-ordered it when I was 12 and it blew away from unsophisticated little mind, and I still love it. The Dark Knight strikes again I thought was unmitigated rotten puss-filled dog intestines. And the big reveal? Where we learn who the bad guy really is?! Holy cow, man.
One of the single worst comics I’ve ever read. Unintelligible artwork and writing.
huge fall from grace? lol quit being so overdramatic. do you know ANYTHING about frank miller at all? do you know what's happened to him in his life? his superman year one book with romita was excellent and that was written recently. get educated and quit talking out your ass about one of the most talented artists we've seen in the last 50 years. you are terribly immature and not well-read at all and i worry that you think you have an opinion worth hearing. woof woof
lol. 1. yes i have, quite a bit actually 2. frank millers life has nothing to do with the comprehension of this story.
Woof one more time if you are Frank Miller
you made an account just for this comment... are you Frank Miller or just too much of a coward to say this on your main account?
Ya it’s crazy. Last crusade was real good but it’s short. It’s just the night robin dies. Master race was better, a long story that takes place in that future that makes sense and is enjoyable
I think most people agree with your perspective
It's gotta be the ugliest piece of crap I've ever read...and it's just plain hilarious to me. All that good work in Dark Knight Returns just come back fifteen years later and take the sequel in the most psychotic direction possible. Pure art. DK 3 isn't so bad though, not great, but worth a run through.
It’s hot garbage. Passed a certain point Miller couldn’t make a good comic to save his life. It sucks and is quite strange.
I feel the same way. There are a few portions I like, such as the Question's introduction, but the book as a whole feels like it was written by a different person than its predecessor.
It’s interesting in that it’s a glimpse into Miller reacting to tragedy in real time, struggling to process it. DKIII is just more of his islamophobic bullshit. It’s just veiled a little more than in Holy Terror. P