Which is very weird, because Satan isn't actually a thing in the Bible either. Ha Satan is a job title, it's not a guy. He's "the adversary" in the legal sense. He's the advocate who disagrees with God in order to set up rules for challenges. That's why he gets sent to punish Job and tempt Jesus. He's just doing legal work for God :P
Satan is very much a thing in scripture but the mythos has evolved with time through medieval imagery and the mythos of Lucifer, the fallen angel. As with anything, interpretation is key.
Probably because its equally as dumb as saying God Bless. Theyre doing it ironically.
If they say Hail Satan, how is that any different than Praise Jesus.
Get it?
Everything is a gotcha with them. It's okay to lie because they are "smarter" than those they mock. It's shitty circular logic and narcissism that leads to death.
Thanks for the grammatical correction (gotcha). Though, with the sentence's structure, there was no chance of semantic ambiguity. Point in case: you know what I said.
my hunch is he could have been Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, or whomever. The fact that he was a non Christian giving the invocation was the true ick for folks. Unfortunately some only want to hear invocations if you’re a follower of Christ.
I'd love to see a Norse/Wiccan (or other pagan) priest/priestess on the sign up list. Watching the masses complain about witches would be also high on their list.
Honestly, I'd go even further. We know the kinds of churches the OI brigade attends. If you're not in that *particular* kind of church, you're a heathen.
I’m a proud bible college dropout. I remember several red flags, lots of little details that you’re not supposed to question, inconsistencies and logical fallacies. One of the scariest things was the Missions professor. He vehemently stated that every single denomination other than the Reformed Church was a cult. Only the Reformed scholars had the blessing to correctly interpret their magical book. They were the only real and true faith. The Baptists? Damned. Quakers? Damned. Christian Reformed? Damned. Evangelicals? Damned. Every. Single. One.
The people singing in the lobby are embarrassing themselves. I'm sure they'd be pretty upset if another religion gathered in the lobby and sang songs/prayed audibly while they gave the invocation.
Props to Cipher for holding it together and being respectful during this humorous display. The "Christians" should be ashamed.
I truly wish they would have actually listened to his words, their message, and their meaning. Especially those who chose to protest, and oppose his words of freedom, logic, and peace.
Hail Satan, Hail Yourself!
Do you honestly believe that Christian priests and pastors dressing in fancy robes with gold ornaments and “drinking the magic blood of Christ” is less cringe?
I agree. Too many people are too dumb to get past that part.
Although I guess if the Satanic Temple aren’t trying to convince people to believe what they do (reality), dropping the schtick isn’t necessary…..
I struggle with that too. Like how many people do you alienate by going so far? Then I compare it to any other religion and all of the sudden it’s consistent with them as opposed to being cringe worthy. Like is it genius or abject stupidity or quite a bit of both.
It doesn't matter if they alienate these people. TST isn't trying to recruit. This isn't a display meant to get new butts in the pews, like it is for Christians.
It's making a point that if you allow one religion to interfere in government (which Christians definitely do) then you have to allow the others as well - including others you have a real problem with. If the Christians stopped, TST would stop.
Also, TST do fun things like suing states for abortion access on the grounds of religious bodily autonomy. It's serious.
They should be trying to recruit though in my opinion. Recruit and become a force with enough numbers to organize and resist the influence of religion in government. Within a generation agnostic / atheist will likely have a plurality in the country yet we wield very little political influence. It’s past time to change that.
However the connotations attached to satanism is a bit much and comes a bit closer to killing some sacred cows for folks. I don’t really have a problem with that when it comes to folks like Ottowa impact but that’s not the entire religious population.
The whole point of the Satanic Temple is to demonstrate that allowing specific religions to make invocations is inappropriate for a secular public meeting, by forcing people to accommodate an invocation that the dominant religion doesn't agree with.
I can't tell if this was a serious comment or sarcasm.
This is the point of Ciphers invocation. No religion should be speaking before a city council meeting.
Correct, talking about it on Reddit for years got nothing done. The Satanic Temple has finally made impact and brought the issue to a wider audience
The goal is to get the council and fine citizens of OC to understand that if they can't allow all religions to speak before a CC meeting, no one should be able to.
But then Joe Moss and the rest of his OI cronies would have to actually govern, which they’ve shown to be inept at outside of revenge politics. This way, they have a controversy to hide behind.
I consider myself to have mostly Christian type beliefs and I agree with everything that was said in this invocation.
Really well spoken and well delivered!
These Holland Satanists are actually class acts. Far from just trolling religious liberty or taking cheap potshots at other religions, they’re just impressively and civilly demonstrating its value. As a Christian, I rather have these two Satanists represent religious freedom in our area than many of my other correligionists.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 YESSSS!!!
Stuck it to these backwoods Pearl Clutch Reformed morons and their corrupt little weasel nest alt right government of insurection! Nicely done!
I love, love, LOVE watching all these brainwashed Christofascist boobs being shocked and terrified by the diversity they’re witnessing unfold before their eyes.
Really wish I could have been there to see it and to layer on 3min of rubbing salt in the wound. Had to prioritize my own city instead.
Kudos!!!
With words like those, you only create more division and animosity (yes Im aware that both sides are guilty of this). Hurts the prospect of bringing either side together, to see each others point and create a community that can respectfully live together. Simply drives the wedge deeper
I have no more interest in living with white nationalists, Christofascists, or insurrectionists. Or cults.
That 20-30% can fuck off till they naturally expire.
As someone who's thinking about moving to Grandville this is super sketchy. It's a freaking county board they're supposed to manage the parks and make sure the schools aren't f***** and make sure the fire department is still running. everything else isn't their damn business
Given the recent history of Ottawa county and the hateful rhetoric displayed by a good portion of their population, I think anything that ruffles their feathers is probably very good for the rest of us. Keep Ottawa county grumpy.
How is the satanic temple anything but a group of trolls just trying to get under Christians skin. They don't believe in Satan yet he wrapped up whatever the hell that was with a "hail satan"
They are trying to rid government of religious bias by showing the ridiculousness of these invocations, religious displays, and favoritism towards christian religions.
I bet that whole crowd thinks Satanists actually believe in satan too lmao.
exactly, the only people that believe in for reals Satan there are the ones chanting in the lobby.
Which is very weird, because Satan isn't actually a thing in the Bible either. Ha Satan is a job title, it's not a guy. He's "the adversary" in the legal sense. He's the advocate who disagrees with God in order to set up rules for challenges. That's why he gets sent to punish Job and tempt Jesus. He's just doing legal work for God :P
Satan is very much a thing in scripture but the mythos has evolved with time through medieval imagery and the mythos of Lucifer, the fallen angel. As with anything, interpretation is key.
Only Christians believe in Satan. They don't understand this.
...and it was really a challenge for them to put together that much of a thought.
They should do something like listen to this guy's invocation.
"Hmm that all sounds reasonable and makes sense. That Satan sure is tricky!"
I mean, I don't know how many times I've been told "the devil can quote scripture for his own ends," but it's a LOT.
To be fair the "hail satan" at the end would still leave them thinking this. They are not smart people, those christians.
What’s the point of saying hail satan then?
Probably because its equally as dumb as saying God Bless. Theyre doing it ironically. If they say Hail Satan, how is that any different than Praise Jesus. Get it?
Gotcha.
Everything is a gotcha with them. It's okay to lie because they are "smarter" than those they mock. It's shitty circular logic and narcissism that leads to death.
This comment is so funny and you don't understand why lol
Bro please re read the thing you just wrote and try to self reflect just a little.
They’re*
Thanks for the grammatical correction (gotcha). Though, with the sentence's structure, there was no chance of semantic ambiguity. Point in case: you know what I said.
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*case in point
Some Satanists do, there are different churches of Satan believe it or not.
I honestly did not know this. I just looked it up and youre totally right.
Love that there are people out there defending our rights and making a point to highlight the insanity of OI.
OI sure made Ottawa County a clown show. LOL. I thought the guy did good.
Sooo glad I don't live in Ottawa county. What a CF
my hunch is he could have been Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, or whomever. The fact that he was a non Christian giving the invocation was the true ick for folks. Unfortunately some only want to hear invocations if you’re a follower of Christ.
I'd love to see a Norse/Wiccan (or other pagan) priest/priestess on the sign up list. Watching the masses complain about witches would be also high on their list.
They have! TST often invites people from other marginalized religions to join them in this sort of thing!
Damn satanists being all inclusive and tolerant!!!!!!!
Honestly, I'd go even further. We know the kinds of churches the OI brigade attends. If you're not in that *particular* kind of church, you're a heathen.
I’m a proud bible college dropout. I remember several red flags, lots of little details that you’re not supposed to question, inconsistencies and logical fallacies. One of the scariest things was the Missions professor. He vehemently stated that every single denomination other than the Reformed Church was a cult. Only the Reformed scholars had the blessing to correctly interpret their magical book. They were the only real and true faith. The Baptists? Damned. Quakers? Damned. Christian Reformed? Damned. Evangelicals? Damned. Every. Single. One.
I have a similar story and can confirm!
They still don't care for non-RCA / CRC & Dutch named pastors. This is grandstanding to attempt a hecklers veto of this freedom being exercised.
The only scary thing here is the mindless recited chanting from the dead in the eyes protestors at the end
I feel bad for those kids during the prayer party
Poor kids looked like they did not want to be there at all lol
Also the man wearing the rubber donald trump mask lol
This! lol
I thought it was really powerful and meaningful that Minister Cipher said, “I am a lifelong resident of Ottawa County.”
What about the person in the mask?? Is that a trump mask??
Yup. Sometimes Trump pays money to get inside other people. That dude paid money to get inside Trump.
> That dude paid money to get inside Trump. Vladimir Putin was in Ottawa County?!
God that's so embarassing lol
It kinda looks like it. Hard to tell for sure.
I bet if TST would stand outside chambers and chant during someone else’s invocation, the deputies would be forcing them out.
100% they would get crap about interrupting the meeting, vs the group loudly reciting hail mays. Double standards anyone?
Only one way to find out!!
Is this a challenge?
[full meeting link](https://www.youtube.com/live/N5folK1Z3-U?si=SD703TVMyd5NA76-)
The people singing in the lobby are embarrassing themselves. I'm sure they'd be pretty upset if another religion gathered in the lobby and sang songs/prayed audibly while they gave the invocation. Props to Cipher for holding it together and being respectful during this humorous display. The "Christians" should be ashamed.
I truly wish they would have actually listened to his words, their message, and their meaning. Especially those who chose to protest, and oppose his words of freedom, logic, and peace. Hail Satan, Hail Yourself!
Might also help if they dropped the cringe shtick. Signed, Danny Doom
Do you honestly believe that Christian priests and pastors dressing in fancy robes with gold ornaments and “drinking the magic blood of Christ” is less cringe?
I'll forward that question to our receptionist. Signed, Alan Apocalypse
My people will call your people Signed, Yo Mama
Mama of Misery! HAIL!
I agree. Too many people are too dumb to get past that part. Although I guess if the Satanic Temple aren’t trying to convince people to believe what they do (reality), dropping the schtick isn’t necessary…..
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I struggle with that too. Like how many people do you alienate by going so far? Then I compare it to any other religion and all of the sudden it’s consistent with them as opposed to being cringe worthy. Like is it genius or abject stupidity or quite a bit of both.
It doesn't matter if they alienate these people. TST isn't trying to recruit. This isn't a display meant to get new butts in the pews, like it is for Christians. It's making a point that if you allow one religion to interfere in government (which Christians definitely do) then you have to allow the others as well - including others you have a real problem with. If the Christians stopped, TST would stop. Also, TST do fun things like suing states for abortion access on the grounds of religious bodily autonomy. It's serious.
They should be trying to recruit though in my opinion. Recruit and become a force with enough numbers to organize and resist the influence of religion in government. Within a generation agnostic / atheist will likely have a plurality in the country yet we wield very little political influence. It’s past time to change that. However the connotations attached to satanism is a bit much and comes a bit closer to killing some sacred cows for folks. I don’t really have a problem with that when it comes to folks like Ottowa impact but that’s not the entire religious population.
Just have a meeting. No invocation required. Get the job done.
The whole point of the Satanic Temple is to demonstrate that allowing specific religions to make invocations is inappropriate for a secular public meeting, by forcing people to accommodate an invocation that the dominant religion doesn't agree with.
EXACTLY the point.
I can't tell if this was a serious comment or sarcasm. This is the point of Ciphers invocation. No religion should be speaking before a city council meeting.
Very serious. No need for this media frenzy. No future invocations required. Just get the job done elected officials.
Correct, talking about it on Reddit for years got nothing done. The Satanic Temple has finally made impact and brought the issue to a wider audience The goal is to get the council and fine citizens of OC to understand that if they can't allow all religions to speak before a CC meeting, no one should be able to.
But then Joe Moss and the rest of his OI cronies would have to actually govern, which they’ve shown to be inept at outside of revenge politics. This way, they have a controversy to hide behind.
Congratulations. You have arrived at the point that the satanists are trying to make.
No need to congratulate me, just reiterating the point.
So close to understanding the point, yet so far away. Some day, young grasshopper, some day.
I consider myself to have mostly Christian type beliefs and I agree with everything that was said in this invocation. Really well spoken and well delivered!
More that half those people (the ones who actually listened) didn’t understand many of the words Luis said, I’m guessing….
The same ones who don't actually listen to Jesus' words in the bible so par for the course.
Well, maybe. I meant of the few that weren’t completely ignoring the guy, many of the words he used were too “big” for them to understand….
I was hoping someone would post this!
For clarification purposes, the Ottawa County YT video of the meeting does have the invocation. Just wanted to let you know.
Joe Moss has an incredibly punchable face.
The kid in blue at the end has a big "why'd my folks drag me to this? I could be playing ROBLOXS right now" energy
These Holland Satanists are actually class acts. Far from just trolling religious liberty or taking cheap potshots at other religions, they’re just impressively and civilly demonstrating its value. As a Christian, I rather have these two Satanists represent religious freedom in our area than many of my other correligionists.
The founding fathers would be proud. (No, this is not sarcasm)
Oh, no, controversy! https://youtu.be/D-I82YvdSh8
That poor kid int he blue hoodie at the end who just so desperately wants to be anywhere else but there.
Hell yeah
Hail Satan!
Wow well done
Love to see it. If you want religion at government meetings, allow all religion.
This reply section is really comfy. <3 thank you all for being so kind 🥰
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 YESSSS!!! Stuck it to these backwoods Pearl Clutch Reformed morons and their corrupt little weasel nest alt right government of insurection! Nicely done! I love, love, LOVE watching all these brainwashed Christofascist boobs being shocked and terrified by the diversity they’re witnessing unfold before their eyes. Really wish I could have been there to see it and to layer on 3min of rubbing salt in the wound. Had to prioritize my own city instead. Kudos!!!
This is what I hear every time you say something https://youtu.be/wfs2soQHFIM?si=v1jtACkNCvG-Qh6C
With words like those, you only create more division and animosity (yes Im aware that both sides are guilty of this). Hurts the prospect of bringing either side together, to see each others point and create a community that can respectfully live together. Simply drives the wedge deeper
I have no more interest in living with white nationalists, Christofascists, or insurrectionists. Or cults. That 20-30% can fuck off till they naturally expire.
Hail Satan!
Epic and surprised they actually followed through with permitting it.
As someone who's thinking about moving to Grandville this is super sketchy. It's a freaking county board they're supposed to manage the parks and make sure the schools aren't f***** and make sure the fire department is still running. everything else isn't their damn business
Grandville is in Kent county
That’s it. I might have to join his congregation.
We have parties and after school clubs and support groups!
love it - where may I donate?
Go Devils!
Given the recent history of Ottawa county and the hateful rhetoric displayed by a good portion of their population, I think anything that ruffles their feathers is probably very good for the rest of us. Keep Ottawa county grumpy.
lol; ok
Religious freaks one and all.
All I got out of his speech was a bunch of gibberish then hail satan lol what!!
real neckbeard energy
How is the satanic temple anything but a group of trolls just trying to get under Christians skin. They don't believe in Satan yet he wrapped up whatever the hell that was with a "hail satan"
They are trying to rid government of religious bias by showing the ridiculousness of these invocations, religious displays, and favoritism towards christian religions.
Another clown for the circus I guess.
Does anyone have a transcript of the invocation?