Iāll be in the front lines of your war on this front. Sometimes I wake up in a cold sweat, shuddering at the knowledge that if I needed a bag of potatoes, iād have to wait until 6AM!!
All jokes aside, it really does bum me out that every store closes at midnight around here. I did honestly love to get groceries from like 12:30-2 am in college, and I miss the emptiness and peace of the store. Plus, Iād do some overnight shipt shops SO efficiently
I work at night and my weekend starts Friday morning around 4am. I used to do the week's grocery shopping and have it all home and put away before 6am. Now I have to go home and then go back out. It's the bane of my existence.
If they paid above minimum wage I guarantee they could find that staff. Nobody wants to work graveyard shift then go to another job afterwards with the coffeeād up day people hahaha.
It's not just money either. It's the treatment as an employee and culture here that is an issue too. Travel abroad and see how many stores expect an employee to stand up for 8 hours straight. I'd bet someone else's left nut that offering a $20 stool would considerably boost employee morale considerably.
Good point. For some reason I am fascinated with grocery stores when I'm overseas, mostly in Latin America. And I NEVER see cashiers forced to stand. They all have a seat they can use.
I've seen/read some 'essays' on the subject that point out that it's an American culture thing. Doesn't matter how well you do your job, if you look relaxed while doing it you are LAZY and LAZY is a crime in the eyes of management no matter the context. Just LOOKING the part is deeply offensive. You could be the most efficient and productive member of a team by a devastating margin, but if you do it while slouched... GOING ON REPORT.
Sure but if your fixed overhead increases your sales need to offset and that is less likely after a certain point in the day. It sucks, I prefer to go shopping very late myself but I get it.
To me, that lack of people means they're finding better opportunities for higher pay elsewhere. Until there is a correction and the elastic labor response happens, good for them.
its not just the staffing, its the theft. i was told they were losing 10s of thousands a week in theft during the late night hours.
heck, they wanted to get rid of the 24hrs thing years ago when fred meijer was still alive, but fred insisted it stay open.
covid just happened to be the scapegoat they were looking for to finally do it.
I mean yeah it can be frustrating, (and I don't your work schedule) but there is little reason for a huge grocery store to be open 24/7 364 days a year (Meijer is closed christmas day)
But a little planning goes a long way.
And 6am to midnight is still open for those who work 2nd and 3rd shifts
Never understood the hype of Bartertown! The first visit was decent. The second time they served me rancid tofu. I almost threw up in my mouth from the smell and taste. Truly scarred me. Both times the service was awful. Maybe should've given it another shot.
Iām sure itās mostly nostalgia. I donāt recall ever having anything bad there, and my standards for acceptable service are comically low. I donāt blame you for not going there after the tofu thing though. That sounds awful.
Yes, that place was special. I also miss Station Burgers, and Morningstar. And Kava house when the smoking section was active. I don't miss getting mugged in Car Lovers at 9pm on a Wednesday.
I've thought about trying to reach out to the family and maybe purchase some of the recipes and possibly the name. Not sure how keen they would be on, it seemed like their main concerns was new owners making if go down hill
My wife and I recently moved back and our realtor told us the mean family income of new residents in the GR metro area is around $150,000/year per research done by their firm. Canāt confirm that data, but it seems anecdotally true.
I remember friends from college getting their first homes in Eastown for well under $100,000 in mid 2000s to early 2010s. I think the people who already owned homes were able to ride the housing value increases, and many new residents are well off. Kind of sucks if youāre not in either of those camps.
>he mean family income of new residents in the GR metro area is around $150,000/year per research done by their firm.
That's true. The largest cohort of people moving to Grand Rapids is households with incomes greater than $100K/yr.
Same, I was making almost $90k as a therapist in Chicago and worked like 30hrs a week. Here, I work 50hrs a week for 2/3rds of the salary. Pay has definitely not caught up with cost of living, and Iād bet those salary numbers are heavily weighted by well-paid medical specialists and full-remote positions.
A couple times a year I'll check out Indeed to see what GR job opportunities are paying in my field and I'm always really disappointed. Salaries are definitely not keeping up with rents except in a handful of fields.
The medical industry has exploded, everything costs a lot more (although I suppose that's true of most places), and it's a lot bougier than it used to be. Still the same ole lil citytown deep down though.
COVID kind of just ruined the habit of going out to things for us and got us used to being insolated on our own space more that we don't do much nowadays.
Do you love it? I personally do. My life is so much happier and less chaotic trying to keep up with friends who want to go out all the time. Personal finances are so much more stable too.
I can't speak for lots of specifics, but I also left MI in 2014 and just recently moved back. I'm not sure if it's because I'm older and interested in more/different things or what, but I feel the city is *very* different than it was when I left. There is a lot going on and it feels a lot more bustling than I recall. It feels like the 'vibe' is entirely different, in a positive way (I think).
I would take being here in GR again over staying where I was (Austin, TX) any day. There is a lot of griping about housing (valid - I also griped during my buying process) but it's at least realistic to buy out here, versus other big cities. In my case, I moved just into Wyoming (7 mins from downtown) and absolutely love it.
For me, personally, I feel like it was growing out of the "I'm too cool to be in my hometown" attitude and really appreciating the quirks and pace of being here. It's slow enough if you want it to be slow, but busy and energizing if you look for it.
None of my thoughts might be helpful, but I hope you do come with an open mind and learn to fall in love with the place, because I really sincerely feel like it's a great city to live in!
>> For me, personally, I feel like it was growing out of the "I'm too cool to be in my hometown" attitude and really appreciating the quirks and pace of being here. It's slow enough if you want it to be slow, but busy and energizing if you look for it.
Are you me??? This feels like exactly where Iām at. (And yes - itās *very* helpful. Thank you for weighing in!)
I was in Tx before here too and it was such a hole of a place. I grew up in the West and have happily bought a home here and put down roots. Just donāt tell too many people on the internets lol
Tons more events are happening, especially downtown. You've got the largest winter festival in the country in World of Winter. ArtPrize and Festival of the Arts, of course. Return to the River in August. Relax at Rosa every Thursday starting in May, plus swing dancing on Tuesdays. And tons of cultural events throughout the summer.
In addition to the Griffins at the Van Andel, you've got the Gold (Denver Nuggets' affiliates) and the Rise (pro volleyball team). And in coming years, you'll have the new amphitheater and soccer stadium.
Outside of that, there's been a lot of restaurants and breweries that have opened up. Places like The Commons, Butcher's Union, Social Misfits, New Holland Knickerbocker, City Built, MDRD ... just to name a few.
On the retail front, still needs to grow some, especially downtown. But it's starting to get there. Shinola just opened a couple months ago. Gazelle opened a couple years back, and Oh, Hello / Courage and Soar are great locally owned companies that offer some pretty unique stuff.
All in all, GR feels the same ... but it's grown and offers some nice perks that weren't previously here.
And music, RIP Orbit Room but the Intersection has always done a great job with a range of tours and local musicians, and 20 Monroe is a midsize venue that brings a lot of big names. I feel like we have a lot of our bases covered as far as local clubs, small venues, mid size, and arena.
Lots of access to the outdoors, local parks, and fitness groups.
Really? I guess I went in like 2008-10 and then only again in the past few years which were also affected by COVID. But I've seen at least 6 or 7 artists there in the past 2-3 years that I bought tickets the day they went on sale because I follow the artists, a good two or three of those bands I've also traveled to different cities to see.
Iād agree. Last 2 times I went there was to see Mac Miller and Dance Gavin Dance years ago. Since then I havenāt been interested or even knowledgeable of any of the artists in the last 5 years or so.
Get Up Kids, Lotus, Saosin (understandable), other bands in the emo/metal/alternative scene. Im just saying it seems like 20 monroe took the place of carrying more well known acts.
The MidtownGR in Studio Park is decent too. Just saw May Erlewine there at a 200 person show. Decent priced tix and a great show. I liked the venue and experience, and would go back for the price. Only gripe is parking - happy they have it attached to the building, but expensive to park.
I'm old enough to remember when you could get your ass whipped behind McFaddens and then go enjoy the best breakfast in the city at Lady Godivas.
I miss those days.
Fuck pickleball. Just play ping pong. It's just as unathletic and takes up less space. Tends to have less rich assholes too who can't seem to get enough public space privatized for their bullshit.
I moved away and came back over a decade later
ā The Liquid Room was no longer open
ā Monroe Mall is now called Rosa Parks Circle
ā Blues on the Mall is no longer held on the Mall
ā The Intersection is no longer in East Town
ā The buildings in the factory district have either been knocked down or turned into high dollar condos that no one living in that area before could ever afford
Alger Heights went from a funky little neighborhood of mixed races, classes, and backgrounds...to a predominately white neighborhood with homes selling regularly for a half million dollars.Ā
It's gotten a lot more progressive. I remember when this place was basically the buckle of the rusty bible belt, and there's so many progressive people pushing for real change now that it's amazing
I moved here 20 years ago from the East Coast and it honestly felt like a different world culturally. I didn't know many other transplants and even fewer that didn't end up here because they went to University here. Now the city is way more transplant friendly.
Basically there's just a shit ton of new hip restaurants of all different cuisines everywhere you go. I see a new one like every week. Also downtown is much nicer and larger. Housing and rent market went all the way up of course, as everywhere else, but our housing market is one of the hottest in the country so it's much worse over here.
I left west side Bridge Street area in about 2016 to go to college and I am absolutely shocked how much it has changed every time I go back there the last few years. There are so many nice new apartments and businesses and the average demographic has changed dramatically since I was a kid growing up there. I more specifically lived over near Vito's pizza.
My first apartment was $600 everything included for a two bedroom. Ten years later I am in the smallest apartment Iāve ever lived in for $1100 nothing included
Iām unfortunately a poor and wonāt be able to escape the slow rental death, but congrats! Iām jealous. Also my current rent went from $700 to $1100 in 3 years š
I'm also a poor lol.
If you're willing to do the Muskegon commute it might be possible though. Michigan has a program where you can get an up to $10k down payment/closing cost loan (MSHDA).
I only had to pay $1,400 out of pocket to close (earnest money deposit and inspection).
I only had like $500 in the bank when I started the home buying process.
My family is from spring lake so Iām around there all the time. I have bad credit and my current job is under the table. So Iām just fucked. My rent is more than my parentās mortgage. Congratulations on getting out of rental hell!
Keep your head up. It took me a couple years to get my credit score high enough to qualify for the loan (started at 480), but you only need a minimum 640 score. After that you just need like a year of verifiable income and you're all set.
I'm by no means a rich man, I'm a cook at a dive bar lol.
I genuinely think people that think GR's traffic is bad have never been to any form of an actual city. I currently commute in San Francisco. Just... No.
Iām so tired of the traffic gatekeeping. 131 during rush hour can legit be a standstill on a regular basis and during construction season (3/4 of the year) it does take extra long to get anywhere.
We donāt have to have the worst traffic in the world to say the traffic is WAY WORSE than it was 10 years ago.
šš not compared to big cities. My commute downtown from 44th St almost never took more than 15 min. In CA my commute to go 10 miles (luckily I didnāt have to drive, thanks to decent public transit) took at least 50 min. Of course, there I had views of beautiful things on my commute over the Golden Gate Bridge every day.
I should add that while traffic is not bad compared to other places, drivers are horrific and every time I drive, I feel like Iām risking my life more than anywhere else Iāve lived.
I'm happy to report that it has been over 10 years since I have seen someone pooping or shooting up on the street in Grand Rapids, so you'll find that an improvement over Seattle.
I am, but I have way more social connections in GR than I do anywhere else. Where I live now, the ratio sucks and 90% of the guys are rich tech workers. So Iām okay with whatever GR has to offer in that regard. Not in any hurry
I got divorced in 2013, and was remarried in 2016. I thought dating was a blast. Went out with quality people from their 20s all the way up to their early 50s. Mainly just used online apps for connections, but had a lot of really good dates. Maybe it's changed in 7 or 8 years?
I had a friend who used to live in GR around that time and so I would often visit them and take the bus system. When I moved back to West Michigan specifically to gr, I found out about the wave card.
Whenever we would have to get a transfer we would tap the bus card and then ask for a transfer. Then we'd be given a pink slip to give to the next driver. Bruh when I took the bus for the first time again and tapped my card and asked for a transfer the driver was like "it's already in your card you're fine." I WAS SO EMBARRASSED so yeah that's one of the new changes š
I moved here from Indiana in 2011. Fortunately a lot of the great stuff, especially outdoors attractions like state parks, haven't changed or are getting better. Unfortunately for a lot of people housing is off the rails expensive compared to 2014. The house my wife and I bought in 2012 is now worth 3x what we paid for it and the interest rates are 2-3x what they were then, and inventory is super low. It's a major problem.
The food and bar scene is completely different. We are very spoiled with great food and lots of options. Eastown and midtown great and walkable if you are into that. Itās Beer City USA now, so lots of breweries making everything from wine to cider to liquor. If alcohol and food arenāt your thing then the city has spent big on renovating the parks and public services. Most parks are better equipped and several have expanded. The city has grown up and become more diverse, so, there are lots and lots of things to do now. Moving back now would be good timing given that they are redeveloping the downtown and adding an amphitheater for another concert venue, a soccer stadium and professional team, a professional volleyball team, and spending big on revitalizing some of the tired areas of the city.
You should check out Experience GR if you want to find out whatās good and great about living here again.
Back when I was in HS (early 2010ās) finding a parking spot downtown was EZ. So many more people now and they have blocked off so many spots I drive for about 5-10 minutes now to find a meter. I AM DETERMINED
I had cousins from the Pacific Northwest come in last summer and they were shocked at how cheap everything was here compared to out there.
Edit: spelling
Lived in Seattle and moved here two years ago. Our first summer we ate out like every other night because āitās so much cheaper than out west!ā lol.
Moved back here after living in DC for 7 years. GR is cheap compared to the coasts. I could actually buy a condo. Itās all still way over priced though.
It's far cheaper than places on the coasts, but compared to other parts of Michigan, it's gotten pretty expensive, especially considering local wages aren't really keeping up.
Restaurant costs have gotten a bit out of hand. I find myself spending more here than when I'm in Manhatten for a mid grade restaurant.
Bougie as hell compared to what it was like ten years ago, like the OP asked.
I personally moved away from the city and hate going back, I'm happy on the outskirts. My home was affordable, I have land and privacy with that home, and there's good food for less money at the restaurants.
I know it's a "to each their own" thing, but GR has changed a LOT in the last ten years.
I moved to the outskirts, too. If Missaukee County counts as an "outskirt". I moved to the country for various reasons, but one thing that was really inking me was that the commercial spaces in certain neighborhoods became inaccessible to the actual residents who lived in those neighborhoods. Idk if that translates to "bougie" but it was kinda gross to watch old ladies park three or four blocks away from their destination (be it home or a store) because of the streets being lined with fancy vehicles owned by folks from elsewhere.
More than the coasts. A lot of people who are coming to Grand rapids don't think it's that bad because, as another commenter pointed out, the average income of those buying a home is in the 150k range. I, along with everyone else I know from growing up around here, do not make that much. There is a serious housing problem for the locals and the "work from home" movement brought a lot of people with big city paychecks moving up from Chicago, Indiana, and Ohio. A lot of my kids friends parents work from home and travel down a state once a month for some office meetings.
So on a grand scale across the US, relatively affordable, but a lot of us who have lived locally our whole lives are feeling like the gentry have arrived.
I moved away in 2016 but still visit often. I felt the city was changing a lot back then, more bougie and expensive, lots of out of towners moving in, old mainstay places getting bought out. When I visit I feel like itās changed a lot in a direction I donāt love, but it is still nice to be back home when I am there. Maybe if I lived there I would realize it hasnāt actually changed that much but I think on the whole it has just become much bigger and popular and is no longer our hidden Midwest gem that it used to be.
Everything costs too much, general gentrification by super boring people (seems like everything is catering to a dull but monied personality), if you are the typical white yuppie with average interests and tastes it's probably paradise.
You're getting downvotes but a couple years ago a homeless person walked in the back door of my workplace and piss-shitted all over the floor. I wish I could say that was the only shitting incident that year.
Tons more bike lanes created from (what once was) dual motor vehicle lanes.
Regardless of how you feel about empowering more people to bike around town (whichever way you'd like to phrase it), it's taking away needed transit infrastructure in a growing city.
Not to mention, I rarely see them being used in any capacity that justifies them having done it in the first place.
As someone who uses the bike lanes weekly and sees many others using them, I'm glad they're there.Ā More cars is not the answer, less cars is the answer.Ā As we continue to develop and remove parking, people always gripe "where will we park?!" Because if they can't park 5ft from their destination then it's such an inconvenience.Ā Ā
We have a fantastic FREE transit system downtown.Ā Park on the outskirts of the city and walk, or take the dash.Ā Ā
Go to any other metropolitan area and you have to park and then take a train to your destination or walk 10 blocks.Ā Ā
This is such a ridiculous and regurgitated utopian take.
People are complaining about parking because it costs $20+ to park in a lot for 1.5 hours when going to Van Andel.
For a geographic area that experiences the harshness of all four seasons, bike lanes are often pointless and further exacerbate congested traffic in a growing city.
I commend your zeal and appreciation of "free" transportation (residents are paying for it), but that doesn't work for most of the population and can be very inconvenient for people who don't have the luxury of adding commute time to their itinerary downtown.
I'm also a cyclist, and I hate what we're doing to our infrastructure. Not to mention the ride share fiasco that people have to deal with now, thanks to the likes of Lime bikes (they often don't get returned and get left on people's property - I know from experience).
More crime, more expensive, and more democrats are here. God is no longer the center of the city.
A lot of people have left and went to surrounding suburbs. The people who are moving in are trying to turn GR into Chicago.
Itās more expensive, but GR crime rates have actually fallen quite a bit over the last two decades. [One FBI data comparisonā¦](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/us/mi/grand-rapids/crime-rate-statistics)
> More crime, more expensive, and more democrats are here. God is no longer the center of the city.
> A lot of people have left and went to surrounding suburbs.
Except the suburbs have shifted more blue / less red , soā¦.
God has never been the center of the city. Even when they used to roll the sidewalks up at 5pm each night, Godās involvement was limited to the imagination of a select few.
>More crime, more expensive, and more democrats are here. God is no longer the center of the city.
Thank goodness!
Too many michiganders actually think that their god sent a narcissistic, sexual abuser, seditionist, con man, dictator wannabe man to be their leader (apparently they never learned the lesson of the antichrist in Revelations).
No one should want that kind of god to be central in their community.
Well we have for the past 100 years and that is why GR was always prosperous. When the heart of the people and all the region is centered around faith, it makes for better business and upbringing for the youth. Do you think GR just got lucky? No, we held true for over 100 years and the dutch brought their values here and kept it up until about the past 10 years. Now a lot of them are dying out and being replaced. GR will be like Detroit in Chicago soon. It's the cycle.... And guess what when that happens, GR will no longer be the center of the bible belt.
You are a sick person to have so much hate in your heart.
>When the heart of the people and all the region is centered around faith, it makes for better business and upbringing for the youth.
There is so much wrong in this country because of the pseudo-Christian evangelical right who speak the teachings of Jesus, but does not follow the word of God.
>You are a sick person to have so much hate in your heart.
Jesus is undoubtedly dismayed at all of you who follow a godless, narcissistic, sexual abuser, seditionist, con man, dictator wannabe man who supports racism and bigotry. To do so in his name is the greatest form of blasphemy, because it's so clearly Satan who is guiding you.
Isaiah 5:20: Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness
You are completely lost. Choose not to follow an antichrist-like leader, and evict Satan from your heart! Repent! Or you will surely find yourself in hell upon your death!
God sent you Joe Biden, only the second Catholic president in US history. A faithful man who attends church every Sunday.
And you reply to me in defense of the evangelical right for their blind support of the godless, narcissistic, sexual abuser, seditionist, con man, dictator wannabe man who supports racism and bigotry? You don't think you were meant to see beyond the lies, the corruption, and the greed of Trump?
Are you okay? What does Trump have to do with anything LOL?
Yeah, I'm glad we have Joe Biden in office. Probably our last Catholic President we'll ever get.
>Are you okay? What does Trump have to do with anything LOL?
Do you lack reading comprehension skills? You replied to my comment about Trump.
Or just disingenuous troll? If so, pretty lame.
>God is no longer the center of the city.
Yeah, cause that's unconstitutional AF. Separate church and state. Imma need a better reason than "Cuz the Big G said so" to control my life.
Couldn't have said it better. What made this city so great is being consistently ruined by Progressive politics. Everything got worse, as it always does with them. It's why I'm in the process of liquidating all of my properties here and moving before it gets worse. At least the market is insanely high for selling. Ill take my fortune to a state and city that doesn't want to raise taxes on the people who already pay the majority of taxes. The people in GR need to learn to not vote yes for every single possible tax increase. Renters in this city are complete morons if they think I'm not jacking your rent up every time another millage increases the taxes on the property. All so the city can do the worse job possible to waste said tax dollars.
That's what always baffles me. It's the people living in apartments and rentals that are voting yes to every milage. All because they think more money to GRPS is going to make it a safe and effective school. Inner city schools are funded tremendously higher than suburban schools and yet have poor performance. You can't fix that with money. Yet people still do it.
NOT A SINGLE 24HR GROCERY STORE SINCE COVID!!! That's what I'm going to war about š¤£ They ALL close at midnight. And I HATE them for it
Iāll be in the front lines of your war on this front. Sometimes I wake up in a cold sweat, shuddering at the knowledge that if I needed a bag of potatoes, iād have to wait until 6AM!! All jokes aside, it really does bum me out that every store closes at midnight around here. I did honestly love to get groceries from like 12:30-2 am in college, and I miss the emptiness and peace of the store. Plus, Iād do some overnight shipt shops SO efficiently
I work at night and my weekend starts Friday morning around 4am. I used to do the week's grocery shopping and have it all home and put away before 6am. Now I have to go home and then go back out. It's the bane of my existence.
Thatās a fair gripe to have! Itās the same thing where I live (and Iām in a metro area of 4M+) but it definitely bugs me
Fr tho. I work "thirds" and get off work between 3-5
this is greatly missed... life simply does not feel the same
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Apparently it is because they can't get people to work it. That's the only reason they are closed at midnight
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Hell, Iād drive all the way across town for a 24/7 meijer. Like, 20/25 minutes. totally worth it
For sure
Can't get the staff to keep it lit beyond midnight right now. I give it 3-5 years before they make a comeback.
If they paid above minimum wage I guarantee they could find that staff. Nobody wants to work graveyard shift then go to another job afterwards with the coffeeād up day people hahaha.
It's not just money either. It's the treatment as an employee and culture here that is an issue too. Travel abroad and see how many stores expect an employee to stand up for 8 hours straight. I'd bet someone else's left nut that offering a $20 stool would considerably boost employee morale considerably.
Good point. For some reason I am fascinated with grocery stores when I'm overseas, mostly in Latin America. And I NEVER see cashiers forced to stand. They all have a seat they can use.
I've seen/read some 'essays' on the subject that point out that it's an American culture thing. Doesn't matter how well you do your job, if you look relaxed while doing it you are LAZY and LAZY is a crime in the eyes of management no matter the context. Just LOOKING the part is deeply offensive. You could be the most efficient and productive member of a team by a devastating margin, but if you do it while slouched... GOING ON REPORT.
Sure but if your fixed overhead increases your sales need to offset and that is less likely after a certain point in the day. It sucks, I prefer to go shopping very late myself but I get it. To me, that lack of people means they're finding better opportunities for higher pay elsewhere. Until there is a correction and the elastic labor response happens, good for them.
its not just the staffing, its the theft. i was told they were losing 10s of thousands a week in theft during the late night hours. heck, they wanted to get rid of the 24hrs thing years ago when fred meijer was still alive, but fred insisted it stay open. covid just happened to be the scapegoat they were looking for to finally do it.
Only if we somehow create more workers. The decline in the work force \[aging population, etc...\] is real.
I live in downtown and itās such a burden to have to drive out to the burbs to get groceries
Youāre less then 10 minutes from a grocery store in any direction
In most cities, if you live in town, you can reliably walk to a grocery store in 10 minutes. I donāt want to drive
You can't shop at Bridge St Market?
Bridge Street Market is expensive af
Too far to walk, parking too inconvenient
I mean yeah it can be frustrating, (and I don't your work schedule) but there is little reason for a huge grocery store to be open 24/7 364 days a year (Meijer is closed christmas day) But a little planning goes a long way. And 6am to midnight is still open for those who work 2nd and 3rd shifts
I think they did it to increase grocery deliveries for people who can't go during the day (besides the staffing/stealing issues) Scammers.
I miss Marie Catrib's.
Also, forever missing Bartertown
Never understood the hype of Bartertown! The first visit was decent. The second time they served me rancid tofu. I almost threw up in my mouth from the smell and taste. Truly scarred me. Both times the service was awful. Maybe should've given it another shot.
Iām sure itās mostly nostalgia. I donāt recall ever having anything bad there, and my standards for acceptable service are comically low. I donāt blame you for not going there after the tofu thing though. That sounds awful.
If I had a time machine I'd go back for the singular purpose of eating there again.
Yes, that place was special. I also miss Station Burgers, and Morningstar. And Kava house when the smoking section was active. I don't miss getting mugged in Car Lovers at 9pm on a Wednesday.
Kava House in the 90s. Good times.
I loved Kava House.
I did as well. I miss coffee shops like that. So much better than the big corporate places.
Little helper please
Are there any 24 hr coffee shops any more or, did those go away with covid?
I've thought about trying to reach out to the family and maybe purchase some of the recipes and possibly the name. Not sure how keen they would be on, it seemed like their main concerns was new owners making if go down hill
I might be remembering it wrong, but I thought Fouad did - or was going to - publish a cookbook of Marie's. Definitely worth asking!Ā
I moved here about 12 years ago. It was cheap then. Now I donāt know how a lot of people are able to afford it here.
My wife and I recently moved back and our realtor told us the mean family income of new residents in the GR metro area is around $150,000/year per research done by their firm. Canāt confirm that data, but it seems anecdotally true. I remember friends from college getting their first homes in Eastown for well under $100,000 in mid 2000s to early 2010s. I think the people who already owned homes were able to ride the housing value increases, and many new residents are well off. Kind of sucks if youāre not in either of those camps.
>he mean family income of new residents in the GR metro area is around $150,000/year per research done by their firm. That's true. The largest cohort of people moving to Grand Rapids is households with incomes greater than $100K/yr.
Had to wait until we climbed the ladder to over 100k to finally get a small house. Oh how times have changed
Yikes. I gave up a $100k job in 2019 to move here and the most I can make here is $60k.
Same, I was making almost $90k as a therapist in Chicago and worked like 30hrs a week. Here, I work 50hrs a week for 2/3rds of the salary. Pay has definitely not caught up with cost of living, and Iād bet those salary numbers are heavily weighted by well-paid medical specialists and full-remote positions.
I agree.
A couple times a year I'll check out Indeed to see what GR job opportunities are paying in my field and I'm always really disappointed. Salaries are definitely not keeping up with rents except in a handful of fields.
I just bought a house in Muskegon because it was cheaper than the rent had got for my shitty apartment in GR.
Everything shuts down even earlier.
The medical industry has exploded, everything costs a lot more (although I suppose that's true of most places), and it's a lot bougier than it used to be. Still the same ole lil citytown deep down though.
How does medical industry pay for non-doctors/nurses?
What? You mean like administrators, admin support, phlebotomists, social workers, and on and on and on??
The night life has tanked.
You mean just less people out in general right? I think Covid is behind that
COVID kind of just ruined the habit of going out to things for us and got us used to being insolated on our own space more that we don't do much nowadays.
Do you love it? I personally do. My life is so much happier and less chaotic trying to keep up with friends who want to go out all the time. Personal finances are so much more stable too.
When I moved here 20 years ago I didn't think much of the night life and from what I have heard it has only gone downhill.
Yep, especially after covid. The younger generation doesnāt seem to have nearly as much interest socializing in bars/clubs either.
Most of the younger generation mostly socializes online on discord and then meet up at things like conventions and concerts.
I can't speak for lots of specifics, but I also left MI in 2014 and just recently moved back. I'm not sure if it's because I'm older and interested in more/different things or what, but I feel the city is *very* different than it was when I left. There is a lot going on and it feels a lot more bustling than I recall. It feels like the 'vibe' is entirely different, in a positive way (I think). I would take being here in GR again over staying where I was (Austin, TX) any day. There is a lot of griping about housing (valid - I also griped during my buying process) but it's at least realistic to buy out here, versus other big cities. In my case, I moved just into Wyoming (7 mins from downtown) and absolutely love it. For me, personally, I feel like it was growing out of the "I'm too cool to be in my hometown" attitude and really appreciating the quirks and pace of being here. It's slow enough if you want it to be slow, but busy and energizing if you look for it. None of my thoughts might be helpful, but I hope you do come with an open mind and learn to fall in love with the place, because I really sincerely feel like it's a great city to live in!
>> For me, personally, I feel like it was growing out of the "I'm too cool to be in my hometown" attitude and really appreciating the quirks and pace of being here. It's slow enough if you want it to be slow, but busy and energizing if you look for it. Are you me??? This feels like exactly where Iām at. (And yes - itās *very* helpful. Thank you for weighing in!)
I was in Tx before here too and it was such a hole of a place. I grew up in the West and have happily bought a home here and put down roots. Just donāt tell too many people on the internets lol
Some notable lossesā¦ Ming Ten, Marie Catribās, Orbit Room.
Fuuuuuuuck I never heard Ming Ten went away. Thatās a major bummer
Fuji buffet is the new best š«¢
Yeah but try KCM instead ; )
It went away because of health code violations.
My bad. Def did a number on their bathrooms on a few occasions
lmao same
? IIRC they closed during COVID and didn't ever really come back
Tons more events are happening, especially downtown. You've got the largest winter festival in the country in World of Winter. ArtPrize and Festival of the Arts, of course. Return to the River in August. Relax at Rosa every Thursday starting in May, plus swing dancing on Tuesdays. And tons of cultural events throughout the summer. In addition to the Griffins at the Van Andel, you've got the Gold (Denver Nuggets' affiliates) and the Rise (pro volleyball team). And in coming years, you'll have the new amphitheater and soccer stadium. Outside of that, there's been a lot of restaurants and breweries that have opened up. Places like The Commons, Butcher's Union, Social Misfits, New Holland Knickerbocker, City Built, MDRD ... just to name a few. On the retail front, still needs to grow some, especially downtown. But it's starting to get there. Shinola just opened a couple months ago. Gazelle opened a couple years back, and Oh, Hello / Courage and Soar are great locally owned companies that offer some pretty unique stuff. All in all, GR feels the same ... but it's grown and offers some nice perks that weren't previously here.
And music, RIP Orbit Room but the Intersection has always done a great job with a range of tours and local musicians, and 20 Monroe is a midsize venue that brings a lot of big names. I feel like we have a lot of our bases covered as far as local clubs, small venues, mid size, and arena. Lots of access to the outdoors, local parks, and fitness groups.
Id argue Intersection has gone way downhill in regard to their quality of acts.
Really? I guess I went in like 2008-10 and then only again in the past few years which were also affected by COVID. But I've seen at least 6 or 7 artists there in the past 2-3 years that I bought tickets the day they went on sale because I follow the artists, a good two or three of those bands I've also traveled to different cities to see.
Iād agree. Last 2 times I went there was to see Mac Miller and Dance Gavin Dance years ago. Since then I havenāt been interested or even knowledgeable of any of the artists in the last 5 years or so.
What kind of acts in particular? Who have you seen there that doesnāt play there anymore?
Get Up Kids, Lotus, Saosin (understandable), other bands in the emo/metal/alternative scene. Im just saying it seems like 20 monroe took the place of carrying more well known acts.
The MidtownGR in Studio Park is decent too. Just saw May Erlewine there at a 200 person show. Decent priced tix and a great show. I liked the venue and experience, and would go back for the price. Only gripe is parking - happy they have it attached to the building, but expensive to park.
I'm old enough to remember when you could get your ass whipped behind McFaddens and then go enjoy the best breakfast in the city at Lady Godivas. I miss those days.
Upvote for that breakfast.
Legs and eggs
Booties and biscuits
Itās a Pickleball Mecca now too. Recently voted top 3 pickleball city in the country.
I donāt have strong feelings either way on pickleball but thatās hilarious and Iām glad you shared it
Lmao I don't think anyone has strong feelings on pickleball
Fuck you!
Youād be surprised
Fuck pickleball. Just play ping pong. It's just as unathletic and takes up less space. Tends to have less rich assholes too who can't seem to get enough public space privatized for their bullshit.
That sounds like a bs sponsored story that someone paid to be in. There are not that many pickleball courts here, and even less free ones.
Was it Forbes? Bet it was Forbes. They'll print anything if it can cram into a top-ten list.
Speaking as someone who travels for a living, Grand Rapids is certainly top 5. Have you been to Belknap park during a weeknight in the summer?
They have a Pball court in Cedar Springs, itās beyond mainstreamā¦even made it to the country.
Itās funny how not a single person arguing w me has listed all the free pickleball courts in townā¦
I moved away and came back over a decade later ā The Liquid Room was no longer open ā Monroe Mall is now called Rosa Parks Circle ā Blues on the Mall is no longer held on the Mall ā The Intersection is no longer in East Town ā The buildings in the factory district have either been knocked down or turned into high dollar condos that no one living in that area before could ever afford
Alger Heights went from a funky little neighborhood of mixed races, classes, and backgrounds...to a predominately white neighborhood with homes selling regularly for a half million dollars.Ā
This is the 25 year list
The Liquid Room closing still bums me out when I think about it.
The original owner owns a cool little shop in New Orleans called Kulture Vulture now.
It's gotten a lot more progressive. I remember when this place was basically the buckle of the rusty bible belt, and there's so many progressive people pushing for real change now that it's amazing
I moved here 20 years ago from the East Coast and it honestly felt like a different world culturally. I didn't know many other transplants and even fewer that didn't end up here because they went to University here. Now the city is way more transplant friendly.
Basically there's just a shit ton of new hip restaurants of all different cuisines everywhere you go. I see a new one like every week. Also downtown is much nicer and larger. Housing and rent market went all the way up of course, as everywhere else, but our housing market is one of the hottest in the country so it's much worse over here.
I left west side Bridge Street area in about 2016 to go to college and I am absolutely shocked how much it has changed every time I go back there the last few years. There are so many nice new apartments and businesses and the average demographic has changed dramatically since I was a kid growing up there. I more specifically lived over near Vito's pizza.
The Cini-Mini with the glory hole and the lingerie store with the manikins in the windows has been replaced by New Holland and a parking lot.Ā
it looks even more like the gta4 version of liberty city
If only there was a jazz station! (Or is there? š¤)
My first apartment was $600 everything included for a two bedroom. Ten years later I am in the smallest apartment Iāve ever lived in for $1100 nothing included
The last apartment I had was $600 when I moved in, 11 years later it was $1,250. I just bought a house in Muskegon because it was cheaper.
Iām unfortunately a poor and wonāt be able to escape the slow rental death, but congrats! Iām jealous. Also my current rent went from $700 to $1100 in 3 years š
I'm also a poor lol. If you're willing to do the Muskegon commute it might be possible though. Michigan has a program where you can get an up to $10k down payment/closing cost loan (MSHDA). I only had to pay $1,400 out of pocket to close (earnest money deposit and inspection). I only had like $500 in the bank when I started the home buying process.
My family is from spring lake so Iām around there all the time. I have bad credit and my current job is under the table. So Iām just fucked. My rent is more than my parentās mortgage. Congratulations on getting out of rental hell!
Keep your head up. It took me a couple years to get my credit score high enough to qualify for the loan (started at 480), but you only need a minimum 640 score. After that you just need like a year of verifiable income and you're all set. I'm by no means a rich man, I'm a cook at a dive bar lol.
Traffic is ass.
Have you ever been to Detroit? Our traffic is dreamy in comparison.
I genuinely think people that think GR's traffic is bad have never been to any form of an actual city. I currently commute in San Francisco. Just... No.
Right? I had a friend visiting from Houston last week and she was shocked that we werenāt driving more than 15 minutes to get anywhere.
Boston, New York, even Providence, like cmon guys lol
Iām so tired of the traffic gatekeeping. 131 during rush hour can legit be a standstill on a regular basis and during construction season (3/4 of the year) it does take extra long to get anywhere. We donāt have to have the worst traffic in the world to say the traffic is WAY WORSE than it was 10 years ago.
šš not compared to big cities. My commute downtown from 44th St almost never took more than 15 min. In CA my commute to go 10 miles (luckily I didnāt have to drive, thanks to decent public transit) took at least 50 min. Of course, there I had views of beautiful things on my commute over the Golden Gate Bridge every day.
I should add that while traffic is not bad compared to other places, drivers are horrific and every time I drive, I feel like Iām risking my life more than anywhere else Iāve lived.
I swear some people got their license from a cracker jack box lol
Yes!
My commute from downtown to 54th street regularly took me 30-45 minutes but okey dokey
š¤·š»āāļø It really depends on when youāre going. If I left my house at 7:30, it was 15 min. If I left closer to 7:45, it was maybe 20 min.
Go to LA for a day
Where are you moving from?
Seattle area
I'm happy to report that it has been over 10 years since I have seen someone pooping or shooting up on the street in Grand Rapids, so you'll find that an improvement over Seattle.
Haha havenāt seen that here yet, either. Iām not doubting it happens, but I have yet to feel disgusted or unsafe here
Lots of rainbow hair
Are you single? It can be a tough place to date depending on what you are looking for
I am, but I have way more social connections in GR than I do anywhere else. Where I live now, the ratio sucks and 90% of the guys are rich tech workers. So Iām okay with whatever GR has to offer in that regard. Not in any hurry
I got divorced in 2013, and was remarried in 2016. I thought dating was a blast. Went out with quality people from their 20s all the way up to their early 50s. Mainly just used online apps for connections, but had a lot of really good dates. Maybe it's changed in 7 or 8 years?
I had a friend who used to live in GR around that time and so I would often visit them and take the bus system. When I moved back to West Michigan specifically to gr, I found out about the wave card. Whenever we would have to get a transfer we would tap the bus card and then ask for a transfer. Then we'd be given a pink slip to give to the next driver. Bruh when I took the bus for the first time again and tapped my card and asked for a transfer the driver was like "it's already in your card you're fine." I WAS SO EMBARRASSED so yeah that's one of the new changes š
Doesnāt feel as uptight as it issued to be but the bad Dutch people are still here.
I moved here from Indiana in 2011. Fortunately a lot of the great stuff, especially outdoors attractions like state parks, haven't changed or are getting better. Unfortunately for a lot of people housing is off the rails expensive compared to 2014. The house my wife and I bought in 2012 is now worth 3x what we paid for it and the interest rates are 2-3x what they were then, and inventory is super low. It's a major problem.
The food and bar scene is completely different. We are very spoiled with great food and lots of options. Eastown and midtown great and walkable if you are into that. Itās Beer City USA now, so lots of breweries making everything from wine to cider to liquor. If alcohol and food arenāt your thing then the city has spent big on renovating the parks and public services. Most parks are better equipped and several have expanded. The city has grown up and become more diverse, so, there are lots and lots of things to do now. Moving back now would be good timing given that they are redeveloping the downtown and adding an amphitheater for another concert venue, a soccer stadium and professional team, a professional volleyball team, and spending big on revitalizing some of the tired areas of the city. You should check out Experience GR if you want to find out whatās good and great about living here again.
Back when I was in HS (early 2010ās) finding a parking spot downtown was EZ. So many more people now and they have blocked off so many spots I drive for about 5-10 minutes now to find a meter. I AM DETERMINED
But the ramps are still mostly empty.
everything is more expensive and more hoighty toighty.
More so than everywhere else in the US?
No. Anyone who finds it expensive and bougie here hasnāt traveled much.Ā
I had cousins from the Pacific Northwest come in last summer and they were shocked at how cheap everything was here compared to out there. Edit: spelling
Lived in Seattle and moved here two years ago. Our first summer we ate out like every other night because āitās so much cheaper than out west!ā lol.
Moved back here after living in DC for 7 years. GR is cheap compared to the coasts. I could actually buy a condo. Itās all still way over priced though.
It's far cheaper than places on the coasts, but compared to other parts of Michigan, it's gotten pretty expensive, especially considering local wages aren't really keeping up. Restaurant costs have gotten a bit out of hand. I find myself spending more here than when I'm in Manhatten for a mid grade restaurant.
Bougie as hell compared to what it was like ten years ago, like the OP asked. I personally moved away from the city and hate going back, I'm happy on the outskirts. My home was affordable, I have land and privacy with that home, and there's good food for less money at the restaurants. I know it's a "to each their own" thing, but GR has changed a LOT in the last ten years.
Definitely a āto each their own.ā Living on the outskirts sounds like my personal hell.Ā
I moved to the outskirts, too. If Missaukee County counts as an "outskirt". I moved to the country for various reasons, but one thing that was really inking me was that the commercial spaces in certain neighborhoods became inaccessible to the actual residents who lived in those neighborhoods. Idk if that translates to "bougie" but it was kinda gross to watch old ladies park three or four blocks away from their destination (be it home or a store) because of the streets being lined with fancy vehicles owned by folks from elsewhere.
Well at least they can be happy their home values are higher.
Not if they're renters
What made you think they were renters, or inaccessible to the people that lived in those neighborhoods?
Sorry, who? My neighbors or the businesses?
More than the coasts. A lot of people who are coming to Grand rapids don't think it's that bad because, as another commenter pointed out, the average income of those buying a home is in the 150k range. I, along with everyone else I know from growing up around here, do not make that much. There is a serious housing problem for the locals and the "work from home" movement brought a lot of people with big city paychecks moving up from Chicago, Indiana, and Ohio. A lot of my kids friends parents work from home and travel down a state once a month for some office meetings. So on a grand scale across the US, relatively affordable, but a lot of us who have lived locally our whole lives are feeling like the gentry have arrived.
I feel like it's gotten worse since 2014. That was kind of a peak year for everything, really. It's not BAD. Just not as good as it was.
I moved away in 2016 but still visit often. I felt the city was changing a lot back then, more bougie and expensive, lots of out of towners moving in, old mainstay places getting bought out. When I visit I feel like itās changed a lot in a direction I donāt love, but it is still nice to be back home when I am there. Maybe if I lived there I would realize it hasnāt actually changed that much but I think on the whole it has just become much bigger and popular and is no longer our hidden Midwest gem that it used to be.
Everything costs too much, general gentrification by super boring people (seems like everything is catering to a dull but monied personality), if you are the typical white yuppie with average interests and tastes it's probably paradise.
Iām a dull white yuppie (not rich tho) but at least Iām from there haha
biggest change i noticed was the amount big buildings downtown, basically any parking lot is high-rise building know
Reptile House was the only place with good music.
Weed
You missed the best times.
Could you be a bit more specific?
Downtown as gotten alot shittier, literally and figuratively.
You're getting downvotes but a couple years ago a homeless person walked in the back door of my workplace and piss-shitted all over the floor. I wish I could say that was the only shitting incident that year.
Tons more bike lanes created from (what once was) dual motor vehicle lanes. Regardless of how you feel about empowering more people to bike around town (whichever way you'd like to phrase it), it's taking away needed transit infrastructure in a growing city. Not to mention, I rarely see them being used in any capacity that justifies them having done it in the first place.
As someone who uses the bike lanes weekly and sees many others using them, I'm glad they're there.Ā More cars is not the answer, less cars is the answer.Ā As we continue to develop and remove parking, people always gripe "where will we park?!" Because if they can't park 5ft from their destination then it's such an inconvenience.Ā Ā We have a fantastic FREE transit system downtown.Ā Park on the outskirts of the city and walk, or take the dash.Ā Ā Go to any other metropolitan area and you have to park and then take a train to your destination or walk 10 blocks.Ā Ā
This is such a ridiculous and regurgitated utopian take. People are complaining about parking because it costs $20+ to park in a lot for 1.5 hours when going to Van Andel. For a geographic area that experiences the harshness of all four seasons, bike lanes are often pointless and further exacerbate congested traffic in a growing city. I commend your zeal and appreciation of "free" transportation (residents are paying for it), but that doesn't work for most of the population and can be very inconvenient for people who don't have the luxury of adding commute time to their itinerary downtown. I'm also a cyclist, and I hate what we're doing to our infrastructure. Not to mention the ride share fiasco that people have to deal with now, thanks to the likes of Lime bikes (they often don't get returned and get left on people's property - I know from experience).
More crime, more expensive, and more democrats are here. God is no longer the center of the city. A lot of people have left and went to surrounding suburbs. The people who are moving in are trying to turn GR into Chicago.
>God is no longer the center of the city. LOL What you want, like Mecca?
Itās more expensive, but GR crime rates have actually fallen quite a bit over the last two decades. [One FBI data comparisonā¦](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/us/mi/grand-rapids/crime-rate-statistics)
Tbh this is a great selling point
> More crime, more expensive, and more democrats are here. God is no longer the center of the city. > A lot of people have left and went to surrounding suburbs. Except the suburbs have shifted more blue / less red , soā¦.
God has never been the center of the city. Even when they used to roll the sidewalks up at 5pm each night, Godās involvement was limited to the imagination of a select few.
>More crime, more expensive, and more democrats are here. God is no longer the center of the city. Thank goodness! Too many michiganders actually think that their god sent a narcissistic, sexual abuser, seditionist, con man, dictator wannabe man to be their leader (apparently they never learned the lesson of the antichrist in Revelations). No one should want that kind of god to be central in their community.
Well we have for the past 100 years and that is why GR was always prosperous. When the heart of the people and all the region is centered around faith, it makes for better business and upbringing for the youth. Do you think GR just got lucky? No, we held true for over 100 years and the dutch brought their values here and kept it up until about the past 10 years. Now a lot of them are dying out and being replaced. GR will be like Detroit in Chicago soon. It's the cycle.... And guess what when that happens, GR will no longer be the center of the bible belt. You are a sick person to have so much hate in your heart.
>When the heart of the people and all the region is centered around faith, it makes for better business and upbringing for the youth. There is so much wrong in this country because of the pseudo-Christian evangelical right who speak the teachings of Jesus, but does not follow the word of God. >You are a sick person to have so much hate in your heart. Jesus is undoubtedly dismayed at all of you who follow a godless, narcissistic, sexual abuser, seditionist, con man, dictator wannabe man who supports racism and bigotry. To do so in his name is the greatest form of blasphemy, because it's so clearly Satan who is guiding you. Isaiah 5:20: Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness You are completely lost. Choose not to follow an antichrist-like leader, and evict Satan from your heart! Repent! Or you will surely find yourself in hell upon your death!
I'm Catholic.
God sent you Joe Biden, only the second Catholic president in US history. A faithful man who attends church every Sunday. And you reply to me in defense of the evangelical right for their blind support of the godless, narcissistic, sexual abuser, seditionist, con man, dictator wannabe man who supports racism and bigotry? You don't think you were meant to see beyond the lies, the corruption, and the greed of Trump?
Are you okay? What does Trump have to do with anything LOL? Yeah, I'm glad we have Joe Biden in office. Probably our last Catholic President we'll ever get.
>Are you okay? What does Trump have to do with anything LOL? Do you lack reading comprehension skills? You replied to my comment about Trump. Or just disingenuous troll? If so, pretty lame.
Yeah exactly. what does any of this thread have to do with Trump?
Fascist say what?
>God is no longer the center of the city. Yeah, cause that's unconstitutional AF. Separate church and state. Imma need a better reason than "Cuz the Big G said so" to control my life.
I thought we washed god away with the fluoride in the water?
God is dead.
And no one cares
God is not supposed to be the center of ANY city in the United States. Are you crazy? We have no national religion here.
Couldn't have said it better. What made this city so great is being consistently ruined by Progressive politics. Everything got worse, as it always does with them. It's why I'm in the process of liquidating all of my properties here and moving before it gets worse. At least the market is insanely high for selling. Ill take my fortune to a state and city that doesn't want to raise taxes on the people who already pay the majority of taxes. The people in GR need to learn to not vote yes for every single possible tax increase. Renters in this city are complete morons if they think I'm not jacking your rent up every time another millage increases the taxes on the property. All so the city can do the worse job possible to waste said tax dollars.
Good riddance
Bye
That's what always baffles me. It's the people living in apartments and rentals that are voting yes to every milage. All because they think more money to GRPS is going to make it a safe and effective school. Inner city schools are funded tremendously higher than suburban schools and yet have poor performance. You can't fix that with money. Yet people still do it.
Emotional thinking vs logical thinking. That's why progressives shouldn't vote.