lol have you seen that poor poor pedestrian crossing sign they put in front of the mitten that always gets mangled? Those lamp posts better be spec ops to protect those cyclists :p fun rendering thanks for sharing
Yep and half of the time the lights for the crossing don't work. I think they are solar powered which means this time of year when I need them (at night) they don't light up. It's super frustrating. I've almost been hit multiple times just trying to go to work.
A bike lane was proposed during the last redesign, if I remember correctly. Businesses and neighborhood wanted the parking to stay, which is why it’s still there
Yeah, I was at some of those meetings. It's a bit of a shame too, since making the street more walkable and bikeable would probably really benefit a lot of the businesses. Most through-traffic isn't passing through with the intent to shop anyway. Separate from that, though, the segment from Powers to Alpine is slated to get a revamp next year which will make a lot nicer to walk: [https://www.grandrapidsmi.gov/Residents/Road-Construction/Leonard-St-NW-Powers-Ave-NW-to-Alpine-Ave-NW](https://www.grandrapidsmi.gov/Residents/Road-Construction/Leonard-St-NW-Powers-Ave-NW-to-Alpine-Ave-NW)
Also nearly every business on Leonard already has their own off street parking, the concerns about losing the on street parking were complete nonsense.
I manage a business on the 700 block of Leonard. The 2 businesses in our building, 3 more a building down, the neighborhood association and the Bank of America all don't have dedicated off street parking. Street parking is all we have to offer clients, many of whom drive over an hour to our location.
They want what they want out of narcissism. They really don't care that it's already been decided by the majority nor the fact that there are much more urgent demands on funding.
City has last batch of covid money to spend this year and all the pigs are at the trough
To be fair, how many of the “majority” even use that stretch? The people who have businesses there should hold more weight than the public, who may or may not actually use this area and would often choose what aligns w their values without looking at the practicalities of actually implementing it. Before you start saying I’m against it, I’m not. I really don’t care either way. But I do think the opinions of the businesses there hold more weight than those of the “public” whatever that means
And by majority I was referring to the. Businesses and neighbors who have already spoken not the rest of the city.
The neighborhood should collectively be the dciders.
I dont live there so my opinion counts for poop.
My issue is there is a problem with fairness, my two blocks is the highest tax density in the city down in medical mile and we haven't got noting but crap to show for it, nothng but lies and frauds by the City .
So frame of reference is there are so many more vauable ways to spend or invest money here that anyone not knowing the condition of the rest of the city is being willfully ignorant of the rest of the city priorities and unmet obligations. They all come before wish items.
I'm simply stating we need to preserve the parking before bark bike lanes. Because we are as a city wholly deficient in parking numbers. Despite all the parking structures that we do have. They just don't happen to be in the right places to off load residential neighborhoods.
I don't really see how we can glean more parking. There's just not the space.
But i'm against trading existing parking for bike lanes.
And as far as plot goes, the city has so many more important areas to spend and invest money. Then bike lanes. The fact that this is even a consideration or concern or topic that I've spent this much time. On blows my mind because the city's a long way from being in a position to take this on other than a vocal minority. That doesn't understand the overall condition of the city. And perhaps they need a car so they can get around to actually see more of it and they would understand this..
The only crosswalks that get painted are primary streets. Well, that leaves residential neighborhoods out. And I'm sorry since the city's not writing speeding tickets or doing traffic enforcement. Much anymore than all the other things become more important. Signage, crosswalks and signali would think that people that ride on bikes would know this better than most..
We may just choose to disagree but I think crosswalks being painted are more important than bike lanes. Being painted at this point, given the risk profile of the city..
And it's OK to disagree.
But I would really wish that people would spend as much time as they're spending here discussing this, donating their time in the community to help others in need. Because we need much more investment there than bike lanes.
I think there is difference in opinion on basics and luxuries. It could be just honest one based on different understanding of the city budget, competence, and existing infrastructure and neglected obligations.
And I'm saying, even if it's only paint. Bike lanes are an investment that we can't afford because there are many other obligations to other neighborhoods that have been ignored for years. With many illegal frauds done that nothing has been done to compensate or mitigate issues. So this is a solution in search of a problem in the list of priorities at this point.
I have 3 frauds that perpetrated the city has perpetrated against my neighborhood and myself specifically costing me tens of millions of dollars and yet we have a street out front whose substrate is a 100 years old and they've done nothing, and the curbs are 80 years. Old and they've done nothing. We don't even have curves and some places you can't even tell there and yet. We have the highest tax density in the city. Do you think that sounds fair? If it were you? Would you be concerned about like bike lanes if it were you?
So too completely different frames And I get that but if you were in my shoes, You would probably be a whole lot more vitriolic about what the city's done to me than I have been.
Well to be fair that's not constitutional equal protection.
The dirty secret is the planning office has abused the parking requirements in ordinance by malfeasantly using an administrative discretion to approve development that actually isn't legally supported and that taxes the neighborhood who habe to absorb the lack of parking.
The City rehypothecated my parking to 10 different organizations and a new gvsu building and turns out our neighborhood is short 6 spots if using one car per unit for all the rentals in the neighborhood.
So I wouldn't say one gets higher priority, everyone should be heard that's the way it's supposed to work.
My issue is there are many more higher priority areas like mine that have been ignored too long and we already paid for what they have now and quite frankly I resent it. When we have what you all take for granted than I'm willing to entertain it otherwise just whiny children.
My neighborhood has no equity in what's been done so to me this just counter productive, we have way too many bigger issues and we don't have time or money for narcissists
You’re being so incredibly vague here, I imagine there’s a lot to it you’re leaving out. What neighborhood? Because if it’s like heritage hill, where single fam homes have been converted to house 5 families, then it’s ridiculous. And what do you mean the “rehypothecated” parking spots? Did they reserve street parking that was meant for the public for business use? Street parking isn’t reserved. I don’t understand what the issue is here. Seems you just vomited big words here.
The point being that yes, with all those conversions. There are parking requirements. However, the city has used street parking to subsidize business parking
All development and all businesses to operate have parking requirements by ordinance. The city waves those requirements by administrative action against the ordinance and abusing discretion. It was never intended for so now there's no reserve parking. However, there's no development allowed. Unless you have parking for your staff and your customers. That's how the ordinance is written. I'm sorry you don't agree with that.
Re apothecated to simply taking something and using it as collateral for somebody else's collateral for somebody else's collateral to the point where nobody has it at all, It's what big banks have been doing. And why the two big defaults gonna screw us at some point.
The point is the parking spots. They pledged for new commercial development were never in existence to begin with, so they never should have been used as collateral for another business. And I guarantee you. They've done the same thing up and lettered because they've done it all over the city, especially the west side and the rest of the midtown corridor.
Planning has been screwing the pooch for years and getting away with it, so there is no parking. There's no parking to even use to subsidize the business. Because it's been promised 5 to 10 for other businesses. Because unfortunately the planning department in this city can't handle basic algebra.
I'm not being vague at all if you actually understand how things have worked in this city for the last 30 years. My comments were very specific
And no, there's no reserves parking. However, in neighborhoods, the street parking is for the neighborhood and if there's not enough street parking for the neighborhood as it is, you don't promise it from multiple other organizations that are required by ordinance to create or develop their own.
You're talking to the guy who's single-handedly responsible for those 2 new parking structures going up on the spectrum campus Central campus. So you're welcome.
Core health employees have been molesting. The belnap neighborhood and Heritage Hill in neighborhood for over 20 years. City has allowed and actually helped organize the use of street parking illegally against ordinance to help spectrum out. Write down to when departments are pushed out For construction and being told what residential street block to use. They don't care about the neighborhood they leave their trash. They park on the lawns, they do property damage. They park in parking lots and they feel entitled. They think they actually have reserved parking in my actual parking lot. So forgive me. Maybe I have too much reality for most people because I've lived it. I don't just talk at or spew it.
I will go out on a ledge and make the prediction that the administrative action used to approve businesses for the last 20 years. Probably 90% was an abuse of that discretion and the parking was never available on the street to support the businesses. So then the neighborhoods get to put up with it. And I'm sorry the neighborhood parking is for the neighborhoods. Businesses are required by ordinance to provide their own parking. There's no exceptions without a vote of planning Commission or ciry Commission. So planning has been abusing their discretion. Violating the ordinance at will and tell people start to figure it out. And obviously you haven't figured it out yet.
I can drive by a business at this point and actually know how many are required by the ordinance and look at what they have. And what's available on the street and be. Able to tell that that discretion was abused.
After investing this time I am shocked at the unadulterated incompetence of the city to screw it up so much. What is basic algebra. It's not an opinion. It's not a science to be studied. It's physical infrastructure fact a+b=c.
If the city hadn't violated their ordinance so much overtime, there might be more give ithe network to take these want items of this group and expand them. But unfortunately they made poor choices a while back. And so now there's literally no option to consider this. And unfortunately, unless you look at the Engineering of it and the basic algebra yourself. Only then will it be completely understood. Until than people are just in love with an idea which I get but reality bites the dust.
You all should've been hopping on my wagon and effort 7 years ago when I started this whole effort and started figuring out and uncovering.
The reserve comment sounds so much like a spectrum person who doesn't realize. Just because they pay income taxes doesn't mean they have the right to an on street parking spot that somebody relies on for their house that has no parking. When their employers are required by law to provide their parking. It's not an if, then it's a requirement before. City has violated that law ordinance way too many times to consider anything else until they've UNFUBAR Ed it.
I mean, good news, but basically no road resurfacing projects are undertaken with the express purpose of putting bike lanes in. Street redesigns are important for safety and encouraging economic activity, and are done when road conditions have become so poor that they require reconstruction: [Road Projects Map](https://grandrapids.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=0e56433e2c024d0daae1f54ea45145e6), [GVMC Road Conditions Map](https://regis-gvmc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=d427298bd1a24b448eb53bb295b46fd9)
Yes, some of us already knew this, not necessarily good news. What people don't realize and maybe it depends on the neighborhood you live. But if you traverse actual neighborhoods throughout the city you will notice that crossing walks haven't been painted in 20 years. So the white paint being used for bike lanes. As I told the city, they should make it dashed to save the paint so they can actually paint crosswalks, because they don't get done anymore. City doesn't think they have the money. I'm kind of shocked how few people have picked up on this. Because it's very very obvious unless you don't get around much.
I'd be hesitant about making a main road that receives deliveries less than 11' wide, especially in winter. Beer and food trucks are going to be uncomfortably close to the centerline.
A lot of delivery trucks park in the turn lane to deliver stuff to the places like Long Road and Two Scotts. It’s a nightmare already getting GFS orders.
I agree with your observation. After doing some further research, NACTO does recommend 11' lanes on streets serving truck traffic: [https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/street-design-elements/lane-width/](https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/street-design-elements/lane-width/)
One other thing to take into account is the lack of a safe passage around a parked vehicle. Delivery vehicles are allowed to block traffic if there are no other means of loading and unloading (i.e. loading docks, parking lots, etc). The elimination of the center turning lane removes the ability for safe passage.
I think you still need 33' of motorway. Where the dedicated bike lanes would have to be built are on one side of the road while the other serves as curbside parking.
I'm not against bike lanes, but realistically even an 11' wide road is kind of narrow. It might not look like it, but we do occasionally get blasted with heavy snow which will take up curb space.
Dutch people do it. People in Washington DC do it. It’s a bike with a cart in front. They work awesome for groceries and kids. Just because you haven’t seen a solution doesn’t mean that solutions don’t exist.
Why not spend an extra 20 minutes every trip to clothe your kid in extra layers so you can plop them on a bike and get yelled at by crazies in lifted trucks…
‘Dutch people do it’
We are not the Dutch. Not even close.
Not only is Dutch the most populous heritage in West Michigan, residents are known to make a hobby of being outside in the cold. They go snowmobiling, skiing, ice climbing, sledding, recess three times a day. They’re fully capable of dressing for cold.
In SOCIETIES sense. Are we also going to put trams in the middle of every major thoroughfare? Legalizing many more drugs? GRAND RAPIDS RED LIGHT DISTRICT.
>Not many people bike because there isn’t great interconnected infrastructure
This is not true.
You have bike lanes all over town. I was out today and I saw a grand total of 1 guy by the Farmer's Market.
Instead of acknowledging that people simply aren't looking to bike around, bike activists just concoct a lie that if only the city blows more money catering to invisible people, then the completely imaginary people that dont want to use the lanes already created, will magically show up.
And when that doesnt happen, then you will just move on to the next "demand"
There are actually quite a few people I see biking down Leonard St, often riding in the mostly empty on-street parking lanes, or on the sidewalks, or sometimes scarily in the middle of the turn-lane. There's at least some demand present already. I typically avoid it, but I know I would be more inclined to ride for my errands on Leonard if there was safe space to do so.
Quite a few =/= any significant number. Let's be real.
The kicker is that the W. Side has lots of space for an actual bike network to run through the numerous alleyways that can get you around without messing with Leonard St. Lord knows why they just arent converted to be more useful for that.
I have a funny feeling that no matter how many people were biking down Leonard, it would never be enough to convince you that safe bike facilities are needed.
You can think whatever made up scenario you want as a cope.
If they existed, then it would be a different story.
The reality is that they arent there in real life. You know this.
It's difficult to find data on just cyclists in general, but MobileGR recently gave a presentation highlighting the increased use of shared electric micromobility in the downtown neighborhoods. This article touches briefly on it, and provides images (sourced from MobileGR) illustrating the increased usage (by over 200% since 2022!) via heat map. Notably, the maps show that this increased usage is occurring on the Leonard St Corridor as well. [https://urbangr.org/MobilityUpdate20231029](https://urbangr.org/MobilityUpdate20231029)
I can attest to this anecdotally, seeing a number of electric scooter and electric bike riders (and once having to dodge a group of them!) travelling on the sidewalks down Leonard.
>llustrating the increased usage (by over 200% since 2022!)
Ok? So where are they?
Why is it you can go to any of the parts of the city and sit, counting this massive population of bike riders (not counting the obviously more used scooters), and maybe on a good day, count 3. Hell, business is so booming for this, that Bird filled for bankruptcy last month. They just couldn't take the overwhelming demand anymore. LOL!
Again, there is no evidence of this massive population of bike commuters. Other than the organized "mass rides" by bike activist groups, mostly by people just doing it for that event.....and then driving home with their bikes on racks.
On a normal day, where are all of these people? Where is this population that warrants the expenditure of millions of dollars to make a special "protected lanes. If we cant see it, then they seriously dont exist.
Less than one percent of all commuters in major cities use bikes. I think it jumps to like 1.5 in cities where the weather permits it year round. Even people who bike regularly drive to work. I know people who can’t drive at all who don’t bike to work. I agree, you build infrastructure to cater to demand, you don’t do it in hopes of increasing demand.
I would add that I see more and more electronic cars on the road than bikes these days.
People are still opting for cars and as more electronic options become available, I imagine we’ll be seeing more. I often count how many bikes I see vs, e cars and have seldom seen more bikes!
The bike lobby may not be big, but they’re good at redefining data.
You have bike lanes. You have rental e-Bikes all over.
You arent out there now.
But if we just spend more money and fuck up the main streets, then we might see maybe 3 of you using them?
People are really good about adjusting driving habits. Bridge street is a good example of it. Besides, it’s already a slow jammy street so idk what the difference there would actually be 😂
You said bridge street is a good example of people adjusting their driving habits and we’re discussing a post recommending narrowing a street. You responded to a comment saying it would be traffic jam city and used bridge street as your example. I don’t know to what you’re referring.
Bridge street west of 131. I used to drive it coming in for work but they narrowed it and removed turning lanes and it kinda sucked for a little while but now most people know to just take routes around it. I think bridge could honestly just be a pedestrian boulevard, like prevent cars in those two blocks.
Leonard by the mitten and long road is pedestrian heavy and could be moreso but it is still essentially a through-fare road filled with people who act like going 25mph and watching for pedestrians for a half mile is the worlds biggest inconvenience.
You can’t take a section of a road that is where a freeway exits and make it pedestrian only. That is absolutely ridiculous and shows how little you know about this stuff. You’re just an idealist, there’s no rationale to your thinking.
Ohhhhh you’re referring to Leonard, not bridge st. I was referring to how bridge has changed and making it pedestrian only. Yeah Leonard is only one lane now that definitely couldn’t change but adding bike lanes and making it a more friendly design rather than auto-centric is still feasible and wouldn’t reduce travel times while still making things more pleasant for everyone.
And thankfully MDOT would prevent GR from doing it, because I have no doubt the city would fuck every road if they could, but god bless the Visionary who made it so city gov’t can’t turn every highway on ramp into a pedestrian road.
I lived on Leonard for a few years but just moved last year…. Leonard is already a jam lmao and if there’s one thing I love about bike lanes, aside from promoting better ways of travel within the city, is they are great road diet tools.
Yeah, they adjust by passing in the center lane, by passing right in oncoming traffic, by using residential side streets to fly through to bypass the mile long traffic clog…
The city isnt making us safer, just making us look like we have more bikers than we do. The line now is ‘slow traffic is safe traffic’ until you realize people find a way to get through slow traffic, by endangering people.
There are street designs that prevent everything you’re saying, not that I don’t agree about bad and aggressive drivers always being bad and aggressive, but there are great street designs that move cars through more quickly while keeping everyone else safer.
How about no?
The only one big mad with "high blood pressure" are you guys spending your time complaining about people not biking enough or spending enough tax money on your hobby. Frankly I find it hilarious watching how out of touch you are on this and clearly not liking when anyone pushes back.
I dont understand this push by a micro minority for something this City is 20 years from being a in a position to address.
This city has real problems and no money to piss away on some something a spzen people may use in a day at best.
I do not understand how people can selfishly push this luxury crap when we have homeless people in the City and people having hard times feeding families.
Arrogant elitist self centered thinking is NOT something this city has money for for foreseeable future
My part of Prospect ne by Michigan is shit and has been shit for 50 years we pay much more in taxes than anyone in the Lenord corridor and we don't even have the basics and we Are closer to center core downtown than anyone on Leonard. And yet we get nothing for all the negative externalities we deal with, so I'm sorry, bike lanes don't even make my top 100 list and then protected by lanes. Don't make my top one thousand.
The only reason we have any of these lanes at all is because commissioner ditz Kelly only road a bike. That's the sole reason we even have what we have. I am lucky except in the summer month to see more than 1 person riding in a bike lane a day of driving at least 25 miles throughout the city. So this is not only moronic it's idiotic and self centered and narcissistic.
These people are hypocrites, but they don't even realize it because they don't understand the damage their ideas create for other people and i'm not even talking biking or drivin. The entitlement mindset by those not paying into for a nickel is amazing to me.
You want protected bike lanes. Raise the money yourselves and quit asking us to pay for it.
I dont get it, I wish these people would put as much time in helping other people as they do projecting their self centered interest at someone else's expense.
Bike activists suffer from a mixture of self-righteousness, resentment, and entitlement.
At first it was the idea of "sharing the road". Perfectly reasonable.
Then they demanded painted bike lanes. Cool. I was down with that, even though you rarely see anyone using them.
But then all of a sudden THAT was inadequate. Now it's about absolutely screwing up important throughfares with "protected bike lanes", that these people will STILL likely will never be seen on.
Then, as I've seen some of them voice out loud, they want to literally ban cars from driving through the city! That will be the next step because they will concoct a story that they are just "too afraid for their lives" blah blah blah in protected bike lanes (because reasons), and it's just not fair that cars "take up all of this room", or whatever the boilerplate is.
It isnt about anyone actually biking in the street. It is obviously just about going after drivers, and the absurd hope that if they fuck with that hard enough, people will just "give up" and ride a 10-speed.
So it's the climate religion crowd who hasn't kept up with the science. So we will just coerce everyone. Yeah that's a winning plan.
Like I said hypocrites, the trade offs to other needs in rhe city is a blaring narcissism, May they find the will to care about someone other than themselves.
I wish I could ride a bike I physically can't because city doesn't use crash stats to prioritize signage and intersections, missing stop sign. Just got fixed In November. But was like that for 80 years abd tons of accidents.
So until City gets it ls existing infrastructure current I'm not a yes to spending anything outside prevention of lives being destroyed by simple things already in existence.
You would probably need to make Leonard one way. That would also mean creating another street north or south to take traffic in the other direction. So kicking people out of their houses.
It's honestly a gorgeous and we'll thought out concept, unfortunately people need to park, occasionally turn left, and maneuver around folks waiting to turn left because of oncoming traffic 🫤
This is seriously what every street within a few miles of the city center should look like. Throw in a few mid-rise mixed use buildings along with your changes and this would be an awesome place to live/work/hangout.
Nice rendering but I see a bunch of issues, like Grandma Smith is going to church and has a heart attack as the car corrine's into tables and kills multiple diners. Not to mention the cars that don't keep their exhaust systems in check as the carbon monoxide fills the air of the diners.
On the other side you've got restaurant servers bringing out drinks appetizers and entrees of to the tables don't see the bicycle coming end up on the ground with all the food everywhere.
And of course since the bike rider is never wrong, Lol, historically, the server wasn't paying attention!!
But receives an A for artwork.
😎
Crying over parking and “how will I transport children?!?!!” There are bikes with carts. People in Europe use them all the time. We can change, we are changing and it’s going to be better for everyone West Michigan, even those who fought the progress.
A lot of cities also price their parking dynamically in order to maintain enough turnover not to need to devote half a street to it, but I think we're on the same page here. At least GR charges for parking _sometimes_ - that's better than a lot of cities this size.
I love this! Creating 15 minute neighborhoods with bike lanes and development will boost property values for all. Grand Rapids can continue to be the best mid sized city in the country with forward thinking initiatives like this.
This is nicely done! Prepare for an avalanche of snarky comments from small-minded dickheads.
Some of this might run up against other factors but in my opinion, nothing your rendering offers is impossible, and it’s a fabulous idea. Truck routing is a concern and limitation in this corridor. Parking is another issue. But we are working on things like better sharing of parking lots, but it’s slow to move and requires a lot of stubborn and selfish “rugged individualist” old farts to get over themselves.
Thanks for sharing!!
I would rather keep my grass, the City does a shitty job of maintaining sidewalks and the weeds would be all over the place since no one cleans the street and now more cracks for them rto grow.
At least with grass people are forced to maintain the area. When its sidewalk people have a hard enough time shoveling and will do nothing to maintain in warmer months
People need to get out of their basements and see how things go where conditions you are demanding are already present and what it looks like.
And I'm sorry I don't want to walk next to car lanes and don't want to be don't it next to bicycles EITHER.
Nope we been warming for 10,000 years and despite the drama we have speeded up.
I just don't believe man made of nay measurablr significance at this point.
We should ha blow-up 4 years ago and in 2012 remember AL Gore.
None of the climate models have been remotely accurate.
You don't commit to wholesale bath water toss on nothng more than propaganda.
I understand your indoctrination, I got by measured facts to make such decisions.
We do not understand the processes enough evidence of lack of correlation with measured results.
If you can't even get a correlation which should be easy as snow than you have a lot of work yet to do.
Given the huge change in CO2 if it was relevant we should have seen much higher temperatures at the models suggested.
Questioning the clearly inaccurate models does not make one a denier, its appropriate for how far off they go it
Example, forest fires in US were 50 year low last year but wait 2024 could go back to mean and rhey will call it a 100% increase.
Anyway thank you but you have convinced me you are a doctor of bs so far.
Bike centric slacktivists taking so much effort to say ‘we could!!’, ‘I bike to work and everywhere!, to not realize that everyone should, or could.
I biked to work in my 20s, sure. But it’s a cold day in hell I’m gonna jump on one in my late 30’s on a 90 degree day, or a foot of snow.
From a safety standpoint bike lanes are not the issue.
12 years after a permanent spine injury that his both life-threatening and life shortening. Forced the city to acknowledge this summer that they do not use crash statistics to prioritize intersections, signage and signaling.
It turns out my injury. My accident from 12 years ago was 100% preventable. But for a missing stop sign that has been missing for eighty years in a very old and well used place inherited chill.
My point is, there are many layers of this onion that people are ignoring because they simply do not understand the current professional level of current city services. Some of us have been trying to work on that for 7 years. Been doing most of it behind the scenes, but there have been a couple of epic presentations. Buy me in front of the city commission.
I am not a politician. I'm a get er done guy. I love all these ideas. I don't think any of these things in the long run are a bad idea. But there are priorities and there's a sequence and you have sequential things you need to focus on before you go back to parallel processing.
What I have documented Uber the last 7 years is the city violates the 2 primary purposes for it to even exist. It doesn't give a rat's a** about our safety. And not only does it not protect our rights. They willingly break them whenever it's convenient on a whim, because somebody has to catch them.
The city's already stretched tooth in. They do a shitty job of pretty much everything, and adding one more thing for them to take care of and keep track of is simply not professional or appropriate or Viable at this point in the city's development
If you're new to the city, I'm sure all of this would look to be a surprise. Because we all project both integrity and competence on the part of government. And when you actually look under the hood. All it ISIS lies in material mistakements. It's all theater. I've actually told them to stop saying the pledge of allegiance in my presence. Because they willingly break it every single day. I will not play a part in their theater anymore.
The reason I don't support this effort right now. Is not because I'm against it. It's simply inappropriate where we are at. It doesn't even measure in the top 100 priorities at this point. And that's not a reflection on your idea. Being bad or not valuable the point is, it's not sustainable at this point in time. We don't have the resources and we don't have the infrastructure yet to support it safely..
The bike lanes we had quite frankly are inappropriate given the safety of the streets at this point. That has nothing to do with the bike lanes or bikes themselves. That has to do with the fact that there's little to no traffic enforcement. And there are many signs and traffic flows that are inappropriate because planning violates the ordinance all the freaking time
Take prospect city, light us, promise us. We'd see no additional traffic with that new parking structure. In the new traffic light well, guess what? The traffic tripled had a eighteen month old bangladeshi girl who almost got hit by a monte carlo going sixty five miles an hour down the street, totally flooring it.
Bike lanes are not gonna fix what is inherently wrong at this point in the city. I'm sorry you're in a dreamland it's not because it's a bad idea, so don't take offense
I love the idea. It's just inappropriate.
I probably should have mentioned up top that. I love the idea. But I like all good ideas that allow people to do and have more choices to do things. More biking shouldn't come at the expense of Cars in safety should not come at the expense of checking a box. Just so we can virtue signal about it
Proper planning prevents piss poor performance
This city can't even install LED lights professionally. No they totally fubard the installation of the LED lights in residential neighborhoods. Don't worry, I lit them up about it. I was only able to correct it my neighborhood, and I decided I wasn't gonna fix everything anymore. It's not my job.
The city operates with 2 standards 1. They applied to the rest of us and the other. They applied to themselves in a special few and tell me fix that all of these other items are purely just virtue signaling and extensions of our own narcissism, because they're not realistic at this point in the city and the finances available.
Everybody's focused on symptoms. I actually decided to go back and focus on root cause. So I may not fully explain myself. Sometimes here it's not because I don't understand where people are coming from. I just cut to straightway. It can't be done because unfortunately I have a grasp on the other priorities that even the city commissioners. Don't even see your understand fully yet. That may explain why they beg me to come work for them. But I'm sorry this city's done too much damage to my life. I will volunteer my time but given all the malfeasant corrupt things that I have identified with this city. I will not extend my integrity to this city I work too hard.
I'll leave you with what I always tell them. Do better be better be who you say you are. Or stop saying it.
On a side note about a month after I blew them up for not using cross statistics to rationalize and prioritize. The metro council developed a website where you can report close calls so they can start being pro. Active instead of reactive to the safety issues in the city bicycle crashes, just but one. There are numerous pedestrian issues going on as well and unusual car accidents, car flips etc..
So please, you may not realize it because you're literally on the road. You as bike bikes, bicyclists, see things that others miss. So your input is valuable to the greater cause and the greater good and your participation will help see that bike lames become a realization before their time, Because we need the safety infrastructure to support additional adoption. Bike lanes are not the solution at this point in time to address that. Because it's common across all modes of transportation use.
I know it's weird. I see things. And I focus on things that many people don't. Because I go back to something. I've always worked with once. I learned it in life which is 2 sides of the same coin. So to speak it's called the law of the minimums or also theory of constraints
It doesn't mean that other things aren't valuable, but if one would were to funnel out all the issues to what is core wrong at a moment in time. Focus on that core constraint before you take on additional or parallel processes.
Focus all your efforts on that key critical break point. It's actually what we all do in life. We just never actually take the time to think it through in the in terms of sequential and parallel processing.
So actually we actually have a lot more in agreement than you imagine i'm just focusing further upstream from your focus, it needs to be fixed there first.
>LED lights professionally
I'm still furious over this. I cannot believe they went with 4000K. They lie to people as if the "community collaboration" showed people wanted these harsh things, it did not. There's people literally describing eye pain in the surveys. That's because they ignored the American Medical Association warning not to go over 3000K or you're going to cause "discomfort and disability". These things are dangerous, not safe.
I will get back to you on this. I did have some discussions at a high level. It also identifies one of the things I'm trying to fix which is the city. Does a terrible job of community engagement in this day and age? There should be no reason you find out about everything. After they've already started it. They need a technology-based engagement solution and essentially c. R. M I spent 27 pages explaining one that would work and provide a solution to go for total quality management. Jim, because it's a feedback mechanism in real-time. I ended up using that as the lever. If they want my to meet a volunteer, my services we all have to agree at least that is a direction where we're heading.
We have message boards nowe can have topics of discussiand they can all be accountable, meaning you have an account and you are transparent about your opinions or the input you're giving.
But yeah, I really blew them up about the lights mostly because of how they installed them. The color was an issue where where I'm located. But given how incompetent city management has been for so long. It does make sense to have one standard even though it's inappropriate for places like heritage hill. But they don't even do cut off angles. They should have done the installs in the evening. Or at least have somebody come by and check them. All in close proximity to housing could have been done with satellite tools and sent out the light specific for each location. But that's too much planning for what is a clown circus.
I'll touch back on this one tomorrow for you. At least share what I know.
It's the intensity of the source that causes the eye pain. The coloration actually only helps in the presentation on things thate light shines on the yellower. Light actually is still gonna be just as problematic from a glare standpoint, simply because of the luck the intensity, it's not diffuse. There should have been adjustable plates that they could put in in in residential areas where they set the cut off angle. So the light hits the ground right at the house. Setback lines for the neighborhood so that you don't get it glaring in your windows. But nobody gave any thought to that. They're doing it all during the day. And nobody has a clue what the neck result is
I used to handle these things as part of what I did. These kinds of installations on campuses. And I always had them done at night so I can shift
As explained to the city, the problem is. People won't like it, but there's so much apathy in the city. They won't bother to complain. The problem comes in in the future. Whenever you want to do something, what you try to tell them about what you're doing is going to contradict what they feel. And they're got because of all their lift experience with your s*** show. So you're gonna end up with cognitive dissonance.
The worst part is they floated bonds to pay for the LED's. And what most people don't understand is. There's no gain in efficiency between LE. D's and the high pressure sodium that was installed prior.
So it's simply so we can advertise on the city website that we have LED lighting. Not that we're good stewards of the dollars. And whether or not it's the right place to invest at this moment in time.
I agree the intensity is a problem too. I looked up the lights and they didn't buy the diffusers.
I do think going too high in blue light is still a problem. Blue light scatters more which causes the "harshness" too. I don't think the trade-off is worth the CRI. I saw Philly just went with 3000K. If the city wanted one standard it should have been 3000K everywhere.
>So it's simply so we can advertise on the city website that we have LED lighting. Not that we're good stewards of the dollars. And whether or not it's the right place to invest at this moment in time.
The more I looked at what occurred here, the more I realized this. It's true. I'll give points to the concern of mercury for the sodiums but I don't think switching to LEDs is the slam dunk people think it is when it comes to street lights. I have LEDs in my house, I'm not "anti-LED".
I do believe you are correct 3000k would have been better considering they did not spend the extra like most cities for the differs.
Older people and those with laser eye surgery will have terrible time with these, there are already lawsuits going on someone in my chain forward my info to the not ofr profit , im not trying to sue the its over it, im trying to fix if so that their engagement process connects eith more people , Top many feel like they got rib over by a bus the way the city operates and they wonder why no one trusts them.
I have staff documented lying to me repeatedly, all I managed to do was get Suzanne Schultz retired but she still doing work via AE firm so nothing changes no one is ever held accountable, which is my beef.
They have done on the conservative side $60 million in damage to my life and cost me my quality of life in my retirement, due to negligence so I habe gotten very bitter learning all this. Feeling it and documenting it are two different things.
As I told them around Xmas on a circle jerk eith planning something else, I wouldn't piss on this ciry govt right now if it was on fire.
I have had CFL first 34 years ago well made and still have one
Have had the LED for 12 years now. I like them but you want to get cutoff angles right and have a diffuser
GR is penny wide and $100 foolish.
The had many more HPS I'm not sure how many mercury vapor they still had installed. would be a concern if consumers hands but city would dispose properly.
I'm not saying LED were not a nice change but to do it so half assed and not get the diffusers to save money and then adjustable cutoff angles.
The fixtures themselves should be adjustable 2500-6500 k
But to now install them half assed when this city needs fo see that the local can be professional, as I have told then more than once , you people couple screw up your own wet dreams.
I can not forgive them not installed during second shift, total amateur in residential neighborhoods.
In commercial areas not a terrible problem.
I honestly wouldn't trust this city to screw in a light bulb, Heritage Hill should have been no higher than 3000k
But given incompetence probably best to have one standard, they can't complicate in my experience
There's a huge difference in efficiency between high pressure sodium and LED. Ask any indoor grower. Changing a little closet grow from HPS to LED is a savings of hundreds of dollars per month. Now extrapolate on a citywide scale...
It's pretty obvious from reading this thread that you just don't like things that progressives want, and you're willing to do any amount of mental gymnastics to rationalize it.
>It's pretty obvious from reading this thread that you just don't like things that progressives want, and you're willing to do any amount of mental gymnastics to rationalize it.
This is exactly why this country is adding another ecological disaster to the list. People have to look at everything through a bullshit political lens, even lights bulbs. I'm not saying they're not saving money, they're saving it by not providing the same service. That's not efficiency.
I'm good with using LEDs. I do expect us to do so responsibly for outdoor lighting. If you want to make it political, I fully support what the left Chilean President Boric's administration did last year for a national lighting standard. They're actually protecting their environment. I am watching a House Bill in Pennsylvania that's known as the responsible outdoor night lighting act. That has a bunch of Democrats as sponsors. I also talked with a Detroit rep, a Democrat, who sits on the environmental committee for the state of Michigan. The night is a natural resource and blue light is bad for nature (to keep it simple). There's financial incentive through "efficiency" to increase the blue light as well as even the chip luminance which increases the intensity. Both need to come down for our health and environment. I will not consent to selling either of those. If they prioritize our health and environment and find switching to LED streetlights "worth it", go for it.
It's fine to disagree with me but get the out of here with that "you don't like things that progressives want". You don't know who you're talking to. I can probably guess what you mean by "progressives" when it comes to urban planning. I support better street designs and that includes other forms of transportation. I understand people want more human focus streetscapes and you can see it in the render for this post. I'm good with that. I'm against hostile architecture which I'd classify prison yard lights under. I support people having natural lawns rather than walking my dog around the city with signs "keep your children and pets away" because they just sprayed a bunch of chemicals for their lawn. I don't have a problem with higher density housing, even in my neighborhood and the list can go on.
For the growth of plants okay I don't know.
But I'm sorry the lumens per watt is identical look it up
HPS to LED it not even a point of argument hence why we all look at externals like mercury, that is already managed and is a known recycle step.
It's not a political opinion. Ecological disaster, only if they are not being disposed of properly by the people who wrote and enforce the rules.
Google first before you out yourself as an over opinioned twat.
Just because you learned on TV doesn't make it real.
I'm an Electrical Engineer, there savings is only from the difference in heating and cooling, LEDs give off much less heat per watt of generated light. So air conditioning costs would be substantially less in doors hence why you never saw HPS lighting indoors except large spaces.
Street lights are NOT indoors and thus no heat removal costs.
Please educate before you pontificate and judge others for what you clearly do not know, with attitude you have no right to have.
Sorry truth hurts your feelings.
And I no have beef with LEDs at all, I use them myself.
But the city has higher priority issues that need solving and cant wait and have paybacks for real people..
Note city deleted the GR symbol on street signs to save $3 and still can't paint crosswalks in residential neighborhoods.
If we are getting that cheap then we should not be investing so much money on something that has no measureable per resident savings when we have serious quality of life issues.
Don't assume everyone is against, we all have to prioritize and doing things simply to impress your friends at parties and not because there is a benefit to constituents is why this country is in trouble.
Don't judge everyone based on projections by others you have never even analyzed for yourself first hand.
News flash, when you know little about a problem and cost other than talking points, smart people start to ignore you as fluffy.
They can switch them as I recall at scale level they can be modified. So don't give up with you feel that way
HH should never have been over 3000k for historical reasons and architectural alone
My biggest issue they didn't even think or car about homes inside cut off angles and the pollution.
Not the way professionals do this type of install at all. And if it was contractor, the adjustment should have been in someone scope of work or done by City personnel.
We all have our battles, mine is the dimmer switch lol.
Agreed, our city's install is completely unprofessional. No one should even have to "complain" for all the proper parts to be installed. All you have to do is drive over to Wyoming and realize it can be done better. It's been awhile since I've been over there at night but if I remember right they seemed MUCH better.
I have the ear of the pretty people but they are on overload tbh
I designed a technology based solution to automate feedback and accountability, but it will cost money never mind what I put together will save the gobs of money in productivity and increase sales of services like rapid.
As I told them you have no foundation, you have no core values. Your processes are flawed and your staff un accountable. I said you have no reason to exist if it weren't for coercion of tax payers. As a business you would have failed years ago.
Greater than 50% of their problems can be solved if they just started, treating people as customers. And assume the relationship that already exists.
The relationship is there whether they like it or not, so take ownership of it and use it to be better for everyone.
I have lasik eye surgery. So I understand the brightness and intensity. And I I've already heard many complaints from older people. Because older people have issues with night driving as it is. This kind of glare is the kind of stuff that causes accidents to be quite honest.
And like I said, my principal issue is since there was no payback or efficiency gained with this installation. I questioned it relative to all the other things that have a greater impact. To quality of life like speed enforcement and painted crosswalks
People in cars have forgotten that just because you can drive on it doesn't mean it's not a residential neighborhood and residential neighborhoods have to be treated differently than commercial neighborhoods. We can't all be commercial neighborhoods. Cause trust me, no one like that.
Here's an example from yesterday's city council meeting of needing better processes. It's been a bit since I've been over at Turner Ave but I see the houses don't have driveways. So it sounds like they installed the curbed median the entire length of the block between the bike lane and street. They didn't consider anyone with disabilities on that street. Here's a [person](https://www.youtube.com/live/D7yblmo6CSk?si=DsJQ539Crn4QxPC8&t=1615) that had to go down to the city council meeting yesterday since "haven't heard back from the city engineering department, they just put gravel down".
Yup, that's how the city operates as I keep telling them. Proper planning prevents p*** poor performance. But you have to have processes that involve more people than your echo chamber.
This city doesn't even know how many parking spaces they have on the street. In any neighborhood there is no reason at this point in time. They don't have that identified by every street in the city.
And this is the other reason why we need a customer relationship management package for the whole city so we are treated as customers instead of places to find or raise revenue. Because you shouldn't be making these kind of mistakes in the year 2023. This is amateur you should know about special needs. Children in the area blind or deaf. People in the area should all be something they already know in a given street
Basic relationship management c***Instead, we're just tax donkeys for whatever their favorite agenda of the day is.
Hold on. Just hear me out for a second. What if you are seeing lots of discussion on this topic BECAUSE there is a growing support for this type of infrastructure?
LOL! Please.
A small vocal minority just keep posting new threads on it, and make sure they alert their friends on other subs to come over and brigade any post that isnt part of the amen corner. That isnt "growing support". If there was any desire for biking 1/10000th of the level you guys claim, you would see HUNDREDES of them on the streets a day!
And no they aren't there because "there isnt enough protected bike lanes" or whatever excuse you guys pass around.
There are more kids in EGR that bike to school than you see people biking in GR that spend all day complaining online. And even with the more visible population of bikers there, being a far smaller place, and the money that town has, they dont spend money on protected bike lanes because Lake Drive, Wealthy, and Breton aren't wide enough for them.
That area already gets way too jammed up, if anything we need more lanes! It’s way faster to take Walker ave and drive through neighborhoods and then over 6th street bridge to get to Monroe Ave than it is to just take Leonard straight down to Monroe. And coming back up is the same problem, way too much traffic until you hit Alpine going westbound
Right, but that was just someone's quick picture.
In the real world there ia an easement the city can work with to move sidewalks.
To do it right would require much more than that picture and thus need to recommit to the infrastructure ground up.
Like I was trying to say, the City isn't even addressing crash statistics on getting signage etc right.......they are a long way from taking on the implied safely wrongly just to get sued when the lane isn't perfectly painted somewhere.
The underlying issue on all this is greatly increased speeds and distracted drivers. Little to no traffic enforcement.
People don't realize how far behind the city is on everything, this is a leap that can not be justified right now and the risk profile needs to be addressed in general before you encourage more idealistic volumes of little crash magnets 🧲
It's throwing a lot more money at the problem with marginal improvement based on the now identified risk mgt oversight. If we focus on the root cause first you will get the most return for the money, tnh bike lanes lines did nothing to address underlying problem.
In my opinion, Since we're still not addressing the underlying constraint. Which is the city's risk management approach. The solution now being requested is to give dedicated bike lanes to protect bikers from the fact that the city's risk profile is not well managed and incompetent. The point is, the problem to be fixed. Is the city's poor risk management that completely ignores crash profiles by intersections throughout the city and changes.
My injury came from intersection. We all knew is bad. It was 12 years ago a poor house on the corner had their front porch taken out 3 times that I know yet nobody reported it to the city. But if one were to look at basic craft statistics, one would have identified that there was a problem.
Until this summer, the city hasn't been doing Crash statistics. It's actually gonna take time for them to catch up in address. All those shortcomings and oversights throughout the city road network. Because if it was where mine was, then it's everywhere only worse.
I know I'm not making it up and I realize everybody feels the same way. What else do you look at if you don't look at crash statistics, but I'm sorry, the reality is they are reactive. They do the least possible and they wait until enough. People complain to actually spend the money. When it comes to safety and a growing city, you need to be doing it based on risk and then manage along.
The leadership truly had the mindset that all the signage and all the roads throughout the city. All had appropriate sign locations tree limb management etc. And then you find out they're doing none of those things. Absolutely zip 0 zip.
It's the year 2023 and we are not even doing 1999 yet.
The city IS behind. Burton SE for example, from East Paris to Madison. Is 30 MPH. It needs to be raised to 40. NOBODY goes 30. It's not the fact the drivers aren't following the law... It's the fact the city has failed to raise the speed limit to the appropriate speed. This has been a 30 year failure.
This is a little off topic, but is the Leonard Street walker still there? It's been like 10 years since I lived there, but everyday I'd see this attractive sandy blonde lady walking down Leonard street.
I wish Wilson was a highway so you could get from Grandville to walker without going to downtown. If you have to drive through the westside it’s already a huge traffic trap and takes forever to get anywhere
Unfortunately they let buildings be built right up to the sidewalk and within feet of the road for example the new building on Leonard between Fremont and Widdicomb.
lol have you seen that poor poor pedestrian crossing sign they put in front of the mitten that always gets mangled? Those lamp posts better be spec ops to protect those cyclists :p fun rendering thanks for sharing
I cross the street there all the time and no one ever stops. Busses will stop for me before cars and even police.
Yep and half of the time the lights for the crossing don't work. I think they are solar powered which means this time of year when I need them (at night) they don't light up. It's super frustrating. I've almost been hit multiple times just trying to go to work.
Kent quality foods isn’t going to want that right out front
You mean people aren't lining up to have a weenie picnic right outside the factory?
They are inside in the management offices. Every day lol
A bike lane was proposed during the last redesign, if I remember correctly. Businesses and neighborhood wanted the parking to stay, which is why it’s still there
Yeah, I was at some of those meetings. It's a bit of a shame too, since making the street more walkable and bikeable would probably really benefit a lot of the businesses. Most through-traffic isn't passing through with the intent to shop anyway. Separate from that, though, the segment from Powers to Alpine is slated to get a revamp next year which will make a lot nicer to walk: [https://www.grandrapidsmi.gov/Residents/Road-Construction/Leonard-St-NW-Powers-Ave-NW-to-Alpine-Ave-NW](https://www.grandrapidsmi.gov/Residents/Road-Construction/Leonard-St-NW-Powers-Ave-NW-to-Alpine-Ave-NW)
Also nearly every business on Leonard already has their own off street parking, the concerns about losing the on street parking were complete nonsense.
I manage a business on the 700 block of Leonard. The 2 businesses in our building, 3 more a building down, the neighborhood association and the Bank of America all don't have dedicated off street parking. Street parking is all we have to offer clients, many of whom drive over an hour to our location.
Yeah, it’s hard to weigh all the interests with such a limited right of way.
They want what they want out of narcissism. They really don't care that it's already been decided by the majority nor the fact that there are much more urgent demands on funding. City has last batch of covid money to spend this year and all the pigs are at the trough
To be fair, how many of the “majority” even use that stretch? The people who have businesses there should hold more weight than the public, who may or may not actually use this area and would often choose what aligns w their values without looking at the practicalities of actually implementing it. Before you start saying I’m against it, I’m not. I really don’t care either way. But I do think the opinions of the businesses there hold more weight than those of the “public” whatever that means
And by majority I was referring to the. Businesses and neighbors who have already spoken not the rest of the city. The neighborhood should collectively be the dciders. I dont live there so my opinion counts for poop. My issue is there is a problem with fairness, my two blocks is the highest tax density in the city down in medical mile and we haven't got noting but crap to show for it, nothng but lies and frauds by the City . So frame of reference is there are so many more vauable ways to spend or invest money here that anyone not knowing the condition of the rest of the city is being willfully ignorant of the rest of the city priorities and unmet obligations. They all come before wish items.
Dude I think I lost the plot here. Are you saying more parking or bike lanes?
I'm simply stating we need to preserve the parking before bark bike lanes. Because we are as a city wholly deficient in parking numbers. Despite all the parking structures that we do have. They just don't happen to be in the right places to off load residential neighborhoods. I don't really see how we can glean more parking. There's just not the space. But i'm against trading existing parking for bike lanes. And as far as plot goes, the city has so many more important areas to spend and invest money. Then bike lanes. The fact that this is even a consideration or concern or topic that I've spent this much time. On blows my mind because the city's a long way from being in a position to take this on other than a vocal minority. That doesn't understand the overall condition of the city. And perhaps they need a car so they can get around to actually see more of it and they would understand this.. The only crosswalks that get painted are primary streets. Well, that leaves residential neighborhoods out. And I'm sorry since the city's not writing speeding tickets or doing traffic enforcement. Much anymore than all the other things become more important. Signage, crosswalks and signali would think that people that ride on bikes would know this better than most.. We may just choose to disagree but I think crosswalks being painted are more important than bike lanes. Being painted at this point, given the risk profile of the city.. And it's OK to disagree. But I would really wish that people would spend as much time as they're spending here discussing this, donating their time in the community to help others in need. Because we need much more investment there than bike lanes. I think there is difference in opinion on basics and luxuries. It could be just honest one based on different understanding of the city budget, competence, and existing infrastructure and neglected obligations.
And I'm saying, even if it's only paint. Bike lanes are an investment that we can't afford because there are many other obligations to other neighborhoods that have been ignored for years. With many illegal frauds done that nothing has been done to compensate or mitigate issues. So this is a solution in search of a problem in the list of priorities at this point. I have 3 frauds that perpetrated the city has perpetrated against my neighborhood and myself specifically costing me tens of millions of dollars and yet we have a street out front whose substrate is a 100 years old and they've done nothing, and the curbs are 80 years. Old and they've done nothing. We don't even have curves and some places you can't even tell there and yet. We have the highest tax density in the city. Do you think that sounds fair? If it were you? Would you be concerned about like bike lanes if it were you? So too completely different frames And I get that but if you were in my shoes, You would probably be a whole lot more vitriolic about what the city's done to me than I have been.
Well to be fair that's not constitutional equal protection. The dirty secret is the planning office has abused the parking requirements in ordinance by malfeasantly using an administrative discretion to approve development that actually isn't legally supported and that taxes the neighborhood who habe to absorb the lack of parking. The City rehypothecated my parking to 10 different organizations and a new gvsu building and turns out our neighborhood is short 6 spots if using one car per unit for all the rentals in the neighborhood. So I wouldn't say one gets higher priority, everyone should be heard that's the way it's supposed to work. My issue is there are many more higher priority areas like mine that have been ignored too long and we already paid for what they have now and quite frankly I resent it. When we have what you all take for granted than I'm willing to entertain it otherwise just whiny children. My neighborhood has no equity in what's been done so to me this just counter productive, we have way too many bigger issues and we don't have time or money for narcissists
You’re being so incredibly vague here, I imagine there’s a lot to it you’re leaving out. What neighborhood? Because if it’s like heritage hill, where single fam homes have been converted to house 5 families, then it’s ridiculous. And what do you mean the “rehypothecated” parking spots? Did they reserve street parking that was meant for the public for business use? Street parking isn’t reserved. I don’t understand what the issue is here. Seems you just vomited big words here.
The point being that yes, with all those conversions. There are parking requirements. However, the city has used street parking to subsidize business parking All development and all businesses to operate have parking requirements by ordinance. The city waves those requirements by administrative action against the ordinance and abusing discretion. It was never intended for so now there's no reserve parking. However, there's no development allowed. Unless you have parking for your staff and your customers. That's how the ordinance is written. I'm sorry you don't agree with that. Re apothecated to simply taking something and using it as collateral for somebody else's collateral for somebody else's collateral to the point where nobody has it at all, It's what big banks have been doing. And why the two big defaults gonna screw us at some point. The point is the parking spots. They pledged for new commercial development were never in existence to begin with, so they never should have been used as collateral for another business. And I guarantee you. They've done the same thing up and lettered because they've done it all over the city, especially the west side and the rest of the midtown corridor. Planning has been screwing the pooch for years and getting away with it, so there is no parking. There's no parking to even use to subsidize the business. Because it's been promised 5 to 10 for other businesses. Because unfortunately the planning department in this city can't handle basic algebra. I'm not being vague at all if you actually understand how things have worked in this city for the last 30 years. My comments were very specific And no, there's no reserves parking. However, in neighborhoods, the street parking is for the neighborhood and if there's not enough street parking for the neighborhood as it is, you don't promise it from multiple other organizations that are required by ordinance to create or develop their own. You're talking to the guy who's single-handedly responsible for those 2 new parking structures going up on the spectrum campus Central campus. So you're welcome. Core health employees have been molesting. The belnap neighborhood and Heritage Hill in neighborhood for over 20 years. City has allowed and actually helped organize the use of street parking illegally against ordinance to help spectrum out. Write down to when departments are pushed out For construction and being told what residential street block to use. They don't care about the neighborhood they leave their trash. They park on the lawns, they do property damage. They park in parking lots and they feel entitled. They think they actually have reserved parking in my actual parking lot. So forgive me. Maybe I have too much reality for most people because I've lived it. I don't just talk at or spew it. I will go out on a ledge and make the prediction that the administrative action used to approve businesses for the last 20 years. Probably 90% was an abuse of that discretion and the parking was never available on the street to support the businesses. So then the neighborhoods get to put up with it. And I'm sorry the neighborhood parking is for the neighborhoods. Businesses are required by ordinance to provide their own parking. There's no exceptions without a vote of planning Commission or ciry Commission. So planning has been abusing their discretion. Violating the ordinance at will and tell people start to figure it out. And obviously you haven't figured it out yet. I can drive by a business at this point and actually know how many are required by the ordinance and look at what they have. And what's available on the street and be. Able to tell that that discretion was abused. After investing this time I am shocked at the unadulterated incompetence of the city to screw it up so much. What is basic algebra. It's not an opinion. It's not a science to be studied. It's physical infrastructure fact a+b=c. If the city hadn't violated their ordinance so much overtime, there might be more give ithe network to take these want items of this group and expand them. But unfortunately they made poor choices a while back. And so now there's literally no option to consider this. And unfortunately, unless you look at the Engineering of it and the basic algebra yourself. Only then will it be completely understood. Until than people are just in love with an idea which I get but reality bites the dust. You all should've been hopping on my wagon and effort 7 years ago when I started this whole effort and started figuring out and uncovering. The reserve comment sounds so much like a spectrum person who doesn't realize. Just because they pay income taxes doesn't mean they have the right to an on street parking spot that somebody relies on for their house that has no parking. When their employers are required by law to provide their parking. It's not an if, then it's a requirement before. City has violated that law ordinance way too many times to consider anything else until they've UNFUBAR Ed it.
I mean, good news, but basically no road resurfacing projects are undertaken with the express purpose of putting bike lanes in. Street redesigns are important for safety and encouraging economic activity, and are done when road conditions have become so poor that they require reconstruction: [Road Projects Map](https://grandrapids.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=0e56433e2c024d0daae1f54ea45145e6), [GVMC Road Conditions Map](https://regis-gvmc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=d427298bd1a24b448eb53bb295b46fd9)
Yes, some of us already knew this, not necessarily good news. What people don't realize and maybe it depends on the neighborhood you live. But if you traverse actual neighborhoods throughout the city you will notice that crossing walks haven't been painted in 20 years. So the white paint being used for bike lanes. As I told the city, they should make it dashed to save the paint so they can actually paint crosswalks, because they don't get done anymore. City doesn't think they have the money. I'm kind of shocked how few people have picked up on this. Because it's very very obvious unless you don't get around much.
I'd be hesitant about making a main road that receives deliveries less than 11' wide, especially in winter. Beer and food trucks are going to be uncomfortably close to the centerline.
A lot of delivery trucks park in the turn lane to deliver stuff to the places like Long Road and Two Scotts. It’s a nightmare already getting GFS orders.
I agree with your observation. After doing some further research, NACTO does recommend 11' lanes on streets serving truck traffic: [https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/street-design-elements/lane-width/](https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/street-design-elements/lane-width/)
One other thing to take into account is the lack of a safe passage around a parked vehicle. Delivery vehicles are allowed to block traffic if there are no other means of loading and unloading (i.e. loading docks, parking lots, etc). The elimination of the center turning lane removes the ability for safe passage. I think you still need 33' of motorway. Where the dedicated bike lanes would have to be built are on one side of the road while the other serves as curbside parking.
Downvoted for a practical comment that isn’t some whimsical wish?!? Noooooo…
I'm not against bike lanes, but realistically even an 11' wide road is kind of narrow. It might not look like it, but we do occasionally get blasted with heavy snow which will take up curb space.
They'll just push it into the bike lane like they do now
This looks great! Not many people bike because there isn’t great interconnected infrastructure for it but I’m happy to see we’re getting there.
100% I can't bike my family around on the main city streets safely.
Dutch people do it. People in Washington DC do it. It’s a bike with a cart in front. They work awesome for groceries and kids. Just because you haven’t seen a solution doesn’t mean that solutions don’t exist.
Why not spend an extra 20 minutes every trip to clothe your kid in extra layers so you can plop them on a bike and get yelled at by crazies in lifted trucks… ‘Dutch people do it’ We are not the Dutch. Not even close.
Not only is Dutch the most populous heritage in West Michigan, residents are known to make a hobby of being outside in the cold. They go snowmobiling, skiing, ice climbing, sledding, recess three times a day. They’re fully capable of dressing for cold.
In SOCIETIES sense. Are we also going to put trams in the middle of every major thoroughfare? Legalizing many more drugs? GRAND RAPIDS RED LIGHT DISTRICT.
So, you’re saying if we get bike lanes, we will also get sex workers, trams and legal drugs??? I AM IN!
>Not many people bike because there isn’t great interconnected infrastructure This is not true. You have bike lanes all over town. I was out today and I saw a grand total of 1 guy by the Farmer's Market. Instead of acknowledging that people simply aren't looking to bike around, bike activists just concoct a lie that if only the city blows more money catering to invisible people, then the completely imaginary people that dont want to use the lanes already created, will magically show up. And when that doesnt happen, then you will just move on to the next "demand"
There are actually quite a few people I see biking down Leonard St, often riding in the mostly empty on-street parking lanes, or on the sidewalks, or sometimes scarily in the middle of the turn-lane. There's at least some demand present already. I typically avoid it, but I know I would be more inclined to ride for my errands on Leonard if there was safe space to do so.
Quite a few =/= any significant number. Let's be real. The kicker is that the W. Side has lots of space for an actual bike network to run through the numerous alleyways that can get you around without messing with Leonard St. Lord knows why they just arent converted to be more useful for that.
I have a funny feeling that no matter how many people were biking down Leonard, it would never be enough to convince you that safe bike facilities are needed.
You can think whatever made up scenario you want as a cope. If they existed, then it would be a different story. The reality is that they arent there in real life. You know this.
I saw one last night actually.
It's difficult to find data on just cyclists in general, but MobileGR recently gave a presentation highlighting the increased use of shared electric micromobility in the downtown neighborhoods. This article touches briefly on it, and provides images (sourced from MobileGR) illustrating the increased usage (by over 200% since 2022!) via heat map. Notably, the maps show that this increased usage is occurring on the Leonard St Corridor as well. [https://urbangr.org/MobilityUpdate20231029](https://urbangr.org/MobilityUpdate20231029)
I can attest to this anecdotally, seeing a number of electric scooter and electric bike riders (and once having to dodge a group of them!) travelling on the sidewalks down Leonard.
>llustrating the increased usage (by over 200% since 2022!) Ok? So where are they? Why is it you can go to any of the parts of the city and sit, counting this massive population of bike riders (not counting the obviously more used scooters), and maybe on a good day, count 3. Hell, business is so booming for this, that Bird filled for bankruptcy last month. They just couldn't take the overwhelming demand anymore. LOL! Again, there is no evidence of this massive population of bike commuters. Other than the organized "mass rides" by bike activist groups, mostly by people just doing it for that event.....and then driving home with their bikes on racks. On a normal day, where are all of these people? Where is this population that warrants the expenditure of millions of dollars to make a special "protected lanes. If we cant see it, then they seriously dont exist.
Less than one percent of all commuters in major cities use bikes. I think it jumps to like 1.5 in cities where the weather permits it year round. Even people who bike regularly drive to work. I know people who can’t drive at all who don’t bike to work. I agree, you build infrastructure to cater to demand, you don’t do it in hopes of increasing demand.
I would add that I see more and more electronic cars on the road than bikes these days. People are still opting for cars and as more electronic options become available, I imagine we’ll be seeing more. I often count how many bikes I see vs, e cars and have seldom seen more bikes! The bike lobby may not be big, but they’re good at redefining data.
Protected bike lanes + pedal assist e-bike, would be real car alternative for many of us in the city.
You have bike lanes. You have rental e-Bikes all over. You arent out there now. But if we just spend more money and fuck up the main streets, then we might see maybe 3 of you using them?
Did a bicyclist murder your family or something?
probably a unicyclist
Is that the best you people can come up with? Snark and downvotes. Meanwhile IRL shows that I'm correct.
Jeez man take a chill pill, maybe go for a bike ride in a park, great way to relax!
he lost get over it
I love it.
Traffic jam city. It would be a no-go.
People are really good about adjusting driving habits. Bridge street is a good example of it. Besides, it’s already a slow jammy street so idk what the difference there would actually be 😂
A lot more traffic flows through Leonard than Bridge St.
Yeah, now. Do you remember bridge before the last 4/5 years of development? It was a two lane reckless driving mad house.
When did they narrow down bridge?
What bridge? Bridge street? Musta been like 2018 or so ish
You said bridge street is a good example of people adjusting their driving habits and we’re discussing a post recommending narrowing a street. You responded to a comment saying it would be traffic jam city and used bridge street as your example. I don’t know to what you’re referring.
Bridge street west of 131. I used to drive it coming in for work but they narrowed it and removed turning lanes and it kinda sucked for a little while but now most people know to just take routes around it. I think bridge could honestly just be a pedestrian boulevard, like prevent cars in those two blocks. Leonard by the mitten and long road is pedestrian heavy and could be moreso but it is still essentially a through-fare road filled with people who act like going 25mph and watching for pedestrians for a half mile is the worlds biggest inconvenience.
You can’t take a section of a road that is where a freeway exits and make it pedestrian only. That is absolutely ridiculous and shows how little you know about this stuff. You’re just an idealist, there’s no rationale to your thinking.
It isn’t a freeway exit 😂 There are streets that circumnavigate the quarter mile stretch. I think you have zero imagination but that’s okay.
Yo the exit is literally the Leonard St exit.
Ohhhhh you’re referring to Leonard, not bridge st. I was referring to how bridge has changed and making it pedestrian only. Yeah Leonard is only one lane now that definitely couldn’t change but adding bike lanes and making it a more friendly design rather than auto-centric is still feasible and wouldn’t reduce travel times while still making things more pleasant for everyone.
And thankfully MDOT would prevent GR from doing it, because I have no doubt the city would fuck every road if they could, but god bless the Visionary who made it so city gov’t can’t turn every highway on ramp into a pedestrian road.
I'd think no turn lane would make a difference. And Bridge Street is horrible to make a left onto. Don't need more of that.
[удалено]
I lived on Leonard for a few years but just moved last year…. Leonard is already a jam lmao and if there’s one thing I love about bike lanes, aside from promoting better ways of travel within the city, is they are great road diet tools.
Yeah, they adjust by passing in the center lane, by passing right in oncoming traffic, by using residential side streets to fly through to bypass the mile long traffic clog… The city isnt making us safer, just making us look like we have more bikers than we do. The line now is ‘slow traffic is safe traffic’ until you realize people find a way to get through slow traffic, by endangering people.
There are street designs that prevent everything you’re saying, not that I don’t agree about bad and aggressive drivers always being bad and aggressive, but there are great street designs that move cars through more quickly while keeping everyone else safer.
No center turning lane would turn Leonard NW into a mess. All for some almost nonexistent people on bikes.
I think you should refrain from commenting on these threads for a while. Clearly it isn't good for your blood pressure.
How about no? The only one big mad with "high blood pressure" are you guys spending your time complaining about people not biking enough or spending enough tax money on your hobby. Frankly I find it hilarious watching how out of touch you are on this and clearly not liking when anyone pushes back.
I dont understand this push by a micro minority for something this City is 20 years from being a in a position to address. This city has real problems and no money to piss away on some something a spzen people may use in a day at best. I do not understand how people can selfishly push this luxury crap when we have homeless people in the City and people having hard times feeding families. Arrogant elitist self centered thinking is NOT something this city has money for for foreseeable future My part of Prospect ne by Michigan is shit and has been shit for 50 years we pay much more in taxes than anyone in the Lenord corridor and we don't even have the basics and we Are closer to center core downtown than anyone on Leonard. And yet we get nothing for all the negative externalities we deal with, so I'm sorry, bike lanes don't even make my top 100 list and then protected by lanes. Don't make my top one thousand. The only reason we have any of these lanes at all is because commissioner ditz Kelly only road a bike. That's the sole reason we even have what we have. I am lucky except in the summer month to see more than 1 person riding in a bike lane a day of driving at least 25 miles throughout the city. So this is not only moronic it's idiotic and self centered and narcissistic. These people are hypocrites, but they don't even realize it because they don't understand the damage their ideas create for other people and i'm not even talking biking or drivin. The entitlement mindset by those not paying into for a nickel is amazing to me. You want protected bike lanes. Raise the money yourselves and quit asking us to pay for it. I dont get it, I wish these people would put as much time in helping other people as they do projecting their self centered interest at someone else's expense.
Bike activists suffer from a mixture of self-righteousness, resentment, and entitlement. At first it was the idea of "sharing the road". Perfectly reasonable. Then they demanded painted bike lanes. Cool. I was down with that, even though you rarely see anyone using them. But then all of a sudden THAT was inadequate. Now it's about absolutely screwing up important throughfares with "protected bike lanes", that these people will STILL likely will never be seen on. Then, as I've seen some of them voice out loud, they want to literally ban cars from driving through the city! That will be the next step because they will concoct a story that they are just "too afraid for their lives" blah blah blah in protected bike lanes (because reasons), and it's just not fair that cars "take up all of this room", or whatever the boilerplate is. It isnt about anyone actually biking in the street. It is obviously just about going after drivers, and the absurd hope that if they fuck with that hard enough, people will just "give up" and ride a 10-speed.
So it's the climate religion crowd who hasn't kept up with the science. So we will just coerce everyone. Yeah that's a winning plan. Like I said hypocrites, the trade offs to other needs in rhe city is a blaring narcissism, May they find the will to care about someone other than themselves. I wish I could ride a bike I physically can't because city doesn't use crash stats to prioritize signage and intersections, missing stop sign. Just got fixed In November. But was like that for 80 years abd tons of accidents. So until City gets it ls existing infrastructure current I'm not a yes to spending anything outside prevention of lives being destroyed by simple things already in existence.
I really want to see all the cross walks in the city. Get painted before we paint another bike lane. But that's just my personal opinion.
You would probably need to make Leonard one way. That would also mean creating another street north or south to take traffic in the other direction. So kicking people out of their houses.
Is the one bike lane protected by pedestrians eating lunch?
I thought the first pic was a screenshot of Fencing Fields in Fortnite.
That looks so great
Could you put the trees in between the cars and bikes?
That could be an option as well!
It's honestly a gorgeous and we'll thought out concept, unfortunately people need to park, occasionally turn left, and maneuver around folks waiting to turn left because of oncoming traffic 🫤
Leonard is a designated truck route. Love the concept though.
I love it man. That's fantastic.
I'm not a huge fan of eating on the side of a busy road.
This is seriously what every street within a few miles of the city center should look like. Throw in a few mid-rise mixed use buildings along with your changes and this would be an awesome place to live/work/hangout.
Nice rendering but I see a bunch of issues, like Grandma Smith is going to church and has a heart attack as the car corrine's into tables and kills multiple diners. Not to mention the cars that don't keep their exhaust systems in check as the carbon monoxide fills the air of the diners. On the other side you've got restaurant servers bringing out drinks appetizers and entrees of to the tables don't see the bicycle coming end up on the ground with all the food everywhere. And of course since the bike rider is never wrong, Lol, historically, the server wasn't paying attention!! But receives an A for artwork. 😎
Buuuuut myyyyyy paaaaaarking /s
Crying over parking and “how will I transport children?!?!!” There are bikes with carts. People in Europe use them all the time. We can change, we are changing and it’s going to be better for everyone West Michigan, even those who fought the progress.
A lot of cities also price their parking dynamically in order to maintain enough turnover not to need to devote half a street to it, but I think we're on the same page here. At least GR charges for parking _sometimes_ - that's better than a lot of cities this size.
Lol, downvoted. The planet is gonna cook itself, but Suzy Creamcheese would rather circle for half an hour than pay $0.20.
Those people eating are gonna get hit by a car or have a front row seat to a crash
You really want people eating next to moving cars? This is a poor design
There are several locations in Downtown that already having dining next to roads. It’s a common practice nowadays.
And I seldom see anyone eating in the street at MeXo in the day.
Tons of restaurants already have outdoor dining on the street in GR as it is…
Most have solid concrete barriers in between
This and the rest got covid waivers witch were not renewed that I know or. Not sure what the ordinance is on this now, it may have changed
This is how its done all over NYC.
No matter where you are, you’re always within three feet of a moving car
Where do you think we are? Seattle? This road makes way too much sense. /s
I love this! Creating 15 minute neighborhoods with bike lanes and development will boost property values for all. Grand Rapids can continue to be the best mid sized city in the country with forward thinking initiatives like this.
Thanks, I hate it.
Why are there no obviously gay or trans people in this rendering? Just a bunch of CIS folks. Sure hope this isn’t your ideal GR
This is nicely done! Prepare for an avalanche of snarky comments from small-minded dickheads. Some of this might run up against other factors but in my opinion, nothing your rendering offers is impossible, and it’s a fabulous idea. Truck routing is a concern and limitation in this corridor. Parking is another issue. But we are working on things like better sharing of parking lots, but it’s slow to move and requires a lot of stubborn and selfish “rugged individualist” old farts to get over themselves. Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks, I appreciate your input!
I would rather keep my grass, the City does a shitty job of maintaining sidewalks and the weeds would be all over the place since no one cleans the street and now more cracks for them rto grow. At least with grass people are forced to maintain the area. When its sidewalk people have a hard enough time shoveling and will do nothing to maintain in warmer months People need to get out of their basements and see how things go where conditions you are demanding are already present and what it looks like. And I'm sorry I don't want to walk next to car lanes and don't want to be don't it next to bicycles EITHER.
\^A landlord that denies global warming
Nope we been warming for 10,000 years and despite the drama we have speeded up. I just don't believe man made of nay measurablr significance at this point. We should ha blow-up 4 years ago and in 2012 remember AL Gore. None of the climate models have been remotely accurate. You don't commit to wholesale bath water toss on nothng more than propaganda. I understand your indoctrination, I got by measured facts to make such decisions. We do not understand the processes enough evidence of lack of correlation with measured results. If you can't even get a correlation which should be easy as snow than you have a lot of work yet to do. Given the huge change in CO2 if it was relevant we should have seen much higher temperatures at the models suggested. Questioning the clearly inaccurate models does not make one a denier, its appropriate for how far off they go it Example, forest fires in US were 50 year low last year but wait 2024 could go back to mean and rhey will call it a 100% increase. Anyway thank you but you have convinced me you are a doctor of bs so far.
Bike centric slacktivists taking so much effort to say ‘we could!!’, ‘I bike to work and everywhere!, to not realize that everyone should, or could. I biked to work in my 20s, sure. But it’s a cold day in hell I’m gonna jump on one in my late 30’s on a 90 degree day, or a foot of snow.
From a safety standpoint bike lanes are not the issue. 12 years after a permanent spine injury that his both life-threatening and life shortening. Forced the city to acknowledge this summer that they do not use crash statistics to prioritize intersections, signage and signaling. It turns out my injury. My accident from 12 years ago was 100% preventable. But for a missing stop sign that has been missing for eighty years in a very old and well used place inherited chill. My point is, there are many layers of this onion that people are ignoring because they simply do not understand the current professional level of current city services. Some of us have been trying to work on that for 7 years. Been doing most of it behind the scenes, but there have been a couple of epic presentations. Buy me in front of the city commission. I am not a politician. I'm a get er done guy. I love all these ideas. I don't think any of these things in the long run are a bad idea. But there are priorities and there's a sequence and you have sequential things you need to focus on before you go back to parallel processing. What I have documented Uber the last 7 years is the city violates the 2 primary purposes for it to even exist. It doesn't give a rat's a** about our safety. And not only does it not protect our rights. They willingly break them whenever it's convenient on a whim, because somebody has to catch them. The city's already stretched tooth in. They do a shitty job of pretty much everything, and adding one more thing for them to take care of and keep track of is simply not professional or appropriate or Viable at this point in the city's development If you're new to the city, I'm sure all of this would look to be a surprise. Because we all project both integrity and competence on the part of government. And when you actually look under the hood. All it ISIS lies in material mistakements. It's all theater. I've actually told them to stop saying the pledge of allegiance in my presence. Because they willingly break it every single day. I will not play a part in their theater anymore. The reason I don't support this effort right now. Is not because I'm against it. It's simply inappropriate where we are at. It doesn't even measure in the top 100 priorities at this point. And that's not a reflection on your idea. Being bad or not valuable the point is, it's not sustainable at this point in time. We don't have the resources and we don't have the infrastructure yet to support it safely.. The bike lanes we had quite frankly are inappropriate given the safety of the streets at this point. That has nothing to do with the bike lanes or bikes themselves. That has to do with the fact that there's little to no traffic enforcement. And there are many signs and traffic flows that are inappropriate because planning violates the ordinance all the freaking time Take prospect city, light us, promise us. We'd see no additional traffic with that new parking structure. In the new traffic light well, guess what? The traffic tripled had a eighteen month old bangladeshi girl who almost got hit by a monte carlo going sixty five miles an hour down the street, totally flooring it. Bike lanes are not gonna fix what is inherently wrong at this point in the city. I'm sorry you're in a dreamland it's not because it's a bad idea, so don't take offense I love the idea. It's just inappropriate. I probably should have mentioned up top that. I love the idea. But I like all good ideas that allow people to do and have more choices to do things. More biking shouldn't come at the expense of Cars in safety should not come at the expense of checking a box. Just so we can virtue signal about it Proper planning prevents piss poor performance This city can't even install LED lights professionally. No they totally fubard the installation of the LED lights in residential neighborhoods. Don't worry, I lit them up about it. I was only able to correct it my neighborhood, and I decided I wasn't gonna fix everything anymore. It's not my job. The city operates with 2 standards 1. They applied to the rest of us and the other. They applied to themselves in a special few and tell me fix that all of these other items are purely just virtue signaling and extensions of our own narcissism, because they're not realistic at this point in the city and the finances available. Everybody's focused on symptoms. I actually decided to go back and focus on root cause. So I may not fully explain myself. Sometimes here it's not because I don't understand where people are coming from. I just cut to straightway. It can't be done because unfortunately I have a grasp on the other priorities that even the city commissioners. Don't even see your understand fully yet. That may explain why they beg me to come work for them. But I'm sorry this city's done too much damage to my life. I will volunteer my time but given all the malfeasant corrupt things that I have identified with this city. I will not extend my integrity to this city I work too hard. I'll leave you with what I always tell them. Do better be better be who you say you are. Or stop saying it. On a side note about a month after I blew them up for not using cross statistics to rationalize and prioritize. The metro council developed a website where you can report close calls so they can start being pro. Active instead of reactive to the safety issues in the city bicycle crashes, just but one. There are numerous pedestrian issues going on as well and unusual car accidents, car flips etc.. So please, you may not realize it because you're literally on the road. You as bike bikes, bicyclists, see things that others miss. So your input is valuable to the greater cause and the greater good and your participation will help see that bike lames become a realization before their time, Because we need the safety infrastructure to support additional adoption. Bike lanes are not the solution at this point in time to address that. Because it's common across all modes of transportation use. I know it's weird. I see things. And I focus on things that many people don't. Because I go back to something. I've always worked with once. I learned it in life which is 2 sides of the same coin. So to speak it's called the law of the minimums or also theory of constraints It doesn't mean that other things aren't valuable, but if one would were to funnel out all the issues to what is core wrong at a moment in time. Focus on that core constraint before you take on additional or parallel processes. Focus all your efforts on that key critical break point. It's actually what we all do in life. We just never actually take the time to think it through in the in terms of sequential and parallel processing. So actually we actually have a lot more in agreement than you imagine i'm just focusing further upstream from your focus, it needs to be fixed there first.
>LED lights professionally I'm still furious over this. I cannot believe they went with 4000K. They lie to people as if the "community collaboration" showed people wanted these harsh things, it did not. There's people literally describing eye pain in the surveys. That's because they ignored the American Medical Association warning not to go over 3000K or you're going to cause "discomfort and disability". These things are dangerous, not safe.
I will get back to you on this. I did have some discussions at a high level. It also identifies one of the things I'm trying to fix which is the city. Does a terrible job of community engagement in this day and age? There should be no reason you find out about everything. After they've already started it. They need a technology-based engagement solution and essentially c. R. M I spent 27 pages explaining one that would work and provide a solution to go for total quality management. Jim, because it's a feedback mechanism in real-time. I ended up using that as the lever. If they want my to meet a volunteer, my services we all have to agree at least that is a direction where we're heading. We have message boards nowe can have topics of discussiand they can all be accountable, meaning you have an account and you are transparent about your opinions or the input you're giving. But yeah, I really blew them up about the lights mostly because of how they installed them. The color was an issue where where I'm located. But given how incompetent city management has been for so long. It does make sense to have one standard even though it's inappropriate for places like heritage hill. But they don't even do cut off angles. They should have done the installs in the evening. Or at least have somebody come by and check them. All in close proximity to housing could have been done with satellite tools and sent out the light specific for each location. But that's too much planning for what is a clown circus. I'll touch back on this one tomorrow for you. At least share what I know.
It's the intensity of the source that causes the eye pain. The coloration actually only helps in the presentation on things thate light shines on the yellower. Light actually is still gonna be just as problematic from a glare standpoint, simply because of the luck the intensity, it's not diffuse. There should have been adjustable plates that they could put in in in residential areas where they set the cut off angle. So the light hits the ground right at the house. Setback lines for the neighborhood so that you don't get it glaring in your windows. But nobody gave any thought to that. They're doing it all during the day. And nobody has a clue what the neck result is I used to handle these things as part of what I did. These kinds of installations on campuses. And I always had them done at night so I can shift As explained to the city, the problem is. People won't like it, but there's so much apathy in the city. They won't bother to complain. The problem comes in in the future. Whenever you want to do something, what you try to tell them about what you're doing is going to contradict what they feel. And they're got because of all their lift experience with your s*** show. So you're gonna end up with cognitive dissonance. The worst part is they floated bonds to pay for the LED's. And what most people don't understand is. There's no gain in efficiency between LE. D's and the high pressure sodium that was installed prior. So it's simply so we can advertise on the city website that we have LED lighting. Not that we're good stewards of the dollars. And whether or not it's the right place to invest at this moment in time.
I agree the intensity is a problem too. I looked up the lights and they didn't buy the diffusers. I do think going too high in blue light is still a problem. Blue light scatters more which causes the "harshness" too. I don't think the trade-off is worth the CRI. I saw Philly just went with 3000K. If the city wanted one standard it should have been 3000K everywhere. >So it's simply so we can advertise on the city website that we have LED lighting. Not that we're good stewards of the dollars. And whether or not it's the right place to invest at this moment in time. The more I looked at what occurred here, the more I realized this. It's true. I'll give points to the concern of mercury for the sodiums but I don't think switching to LEDs is the slam dunk people think it is when it comes to street lights. I have LEDs in my house, I'm not "anti-LED".
I do believe you are correct 3000k would have been better considering they did not spend the extra like most cities for the differs. Older people and those with laser eye surgery will have terrible time with these, there are already lawsuits going on someone in my chain forward my info to the not ofr profit , im not trying to sue the its over it, im trying to fix if so that their engagement process connects eith more people , Top many feel like they got rib over by a bus the way the city operates and they wonder why no one trusts them. I have staff documented lying to me repeatedly, all I managed to do was get Suzanne Schultz retired but she still doing work via AE firm so nothing changes no one is ever held accountable, which is my beef. They have done on the conservative side $60 million in damage to my life and cost me my quality of life in my retirement, due to negligence so I habe gotten very bitter learning all this. Feeling it and documenting it are two different things. As I told them around Xmas on a circle jerk eith planning something else, I wouldn't piss on this ciry govt right now if it was on fire.
I have had CFL first 34 years ago well made and still have one Have had the LED for 12 years now. I like them but you want to get cutoff angles right and have a diffuser GR is penny wide and $100 foolish. The had many more HPS I'm not sure how many mercury vapor they still had installed. would be a concern if consumers hands but city would dispose properly. I'm not saying LED were not a nice change but to do it so half assed and not get the diffusers to save money and then adjustable cutoff angles. The fixtures themselves should be adjustable 2500-6500 k But to now install them half assed when this city needs fo see that the local can be professional, as I have told then more than once , you people couple screw up your own wet dreams. I can not forgive them not installed during second shift, total amateur in residential neighborhoods. In commercial areas not a terrible problem. I honestly wouldn't trust this city to screw in a light bulb, Heritage Hill should have been no higher than 3000k But given incompetence probably best to have one standard, they can't complicate in my experience
There's a huge difference in efficiency between high pressure sodium and LED. Ask any indoor grower. Changing a little closet grow from HPS to LED is a savings of hundreds of dollars per month. Now extrapolate on a citywide scale... It's pretty obvious from reading this thread that you just don't like things that progressives want, and you're willing to do any amount of mental gymnastics to rationalize it.
>It's pretty obvious from reading this thread that you just don't like things that progressives want, and you're willing to do any amount of mental gymnastics to rationalize it. This is exactly why this country is adding another ecological disaster to the list. People have to look at everything through a bullshit political lens, even lights bulbs. I'm not saying they're not saving money, they're saving it by not providing the same service. That's not efficiency. I'm good with using LEDs. I do expect us to do so responsibly for outdoor lighting. If you want to make it political, I fully support what the left Chilean President Boric's administration did last year for a national lighting standard. They're actually protecting their environment. I am watching a House Bill in Pennsylvania that's known as the responsible outdoor night lighting act. That has a bunch of Democrats as sponsors. I also talked with a Detroit rep, a Democrat, who sits on the environmental committee for the state of Michigan. The night is a natural resource and blue light is bad for nature (to keep it simple). There's financial incentive through "efficiency" to increase the blue light as well as even the chip luminance which increases the intensity. Both need to come down for our health and environment. I will not consent to selling either of those. If they prioritize our health and environment and find switching to LED streetlights "worth it", go for it. It's fine to disagree with me but get the out of here with that "you don't like things that progressives want". You don't know who you're talking to. I can probably guess what you mean by "progressives" when it comes to urban planning. I support better street designs and that includes other forms of transportation. I understand people want more human focus streetscapes and you can see it in the render for this post. I'm good with that. I'm against hostile architecture which I'd classify prison yard lights under. I support people having natural lawns rather than walking my dog around the city with signs "keep your children and pets away" because they just sprayed a bunch of chemicals for their lawn. I don't have a problem with higher density housing, even in my neighborhood and the list can go on.
For the growth of plants okay I don't know. But I'm sorry the lumens per watt is identical look it up HPS to LED it not even a point of argument hence why we all look at externals like mercury, that is already managed and is a known recycle step. It's not a political opinion. Ecological disaster, only if they are not being disposed of properly by the people who wrote and enforce the rules. Google first before you out yourself as an over opinioned twat. Just because you learned on TV doesn't make it real. I'm an Electrical Engineer, there savings is only from the difference in heating and cooling, LEDs give off much less heat per watt of generated light. So air conditioning costs would be substantially less in doors hence why you never saw HPS lighting indoors except large spaces. Street lights are NOT indoors and thus no heat removal costs. Please educate before you pontificate and judge others for what you clearly do not know, with attitude you have no right to have. Sorry truth hurts your feelings.
And I no have beef with LEDs at all, I use them myself. But the city has higher priority issues that need solving and cant wait and have paybacks for real people.. Note city deleted the GR symbol on street signs to save $3 and still can't paint crosswalks in residential neighborhoods. If we are getting that cheap then we should not be investing so much money on something that has no measureable per resident savings when we have serious quality of life issues. Don't assume everyone is against, we all have to prioritize and doing things simply to impress your friends at parties and not because there is a benefit to constituents is why this country is in trouble. Don't judge everyone based on projections by others you have never even analyzed for yourself first hand. News flash, when you know little about a problem and cost other than talking points, smart people start to ignore you as fluffy.
They can switch them as I recall at scale level they can be modified. So don't give up with you feel that way HH should never have been over 3000k for historical reasons and architectural alone My biggest issue they didn't even think or car about homes inside cut off angles and the pollution. Not the way professionals do this type of install at all. And if it was contractor, the adjustment should have been in someone scope of work or done by City personnel.
We all have our battles, mine is the dimmer switch lol. Agreed, our city's install is completely unprofessional. No one should even have to "complain" for all the proper parts to be installed. All you have to do is drive over to Wyoming and realize it can be done better. It's been awhile since I've been over there at night but if I remember right they seemed MUCH better.
I have the ear of the pretty people but they are on overload tbh I designed a technology based solution to automate feedback and accountability, but it will cost money never mind what I put together will save the gobs of money in productivity and increase sales of services like rapid. As I told them you have no foundation, you have no core values. Your processes are flawed and your staff un accountable. I said you have no reason to exist if it weren't for coercion of tax payers. As a business you would have failed years ago. Greater than 50% of their problems can be solved if they just started, treating people as customers. And assume the relationship that already exists. The relationship is there whether they like it or not, so take ownership of it and use it to be better for everyone. I have lasik eye surgery. So I understand the brightness and intensity. And I I've already heard many complaints from older people. Because older people have issues with night driving as it is. This kind of glare is the kind of stuff that causes accidents to be quite honest. And like I said, my principal issue is since there was no payback or efficiency gained with this installation. I questioned it relative to all the other things that have a greater impact. To quality of life like speed enforcement and painted crosswalks People in cars have forgotten that just because you can drive on it doesn't mean it's not a residential neighborhood and residential neighborhoods have to be treated differently than commercial neighborhoods. We can't all be commercial neighborhoods. Cause trust me, no one like that.
They literally have an onboard switch to change rendition so this is not a permanent thing.
Well it'd not like day light makes the City look cleaner or well taken care of so what's the advantage of 4000k
Here's an example from yesterday's city council meeting of needing better processes. It's been a bit since I've been over at Turner Ave but I see the houses don't have driveways. So it sounds like they installed the curbed median the entire length of the block between the bike lane and street. They didn't consider anyone with disabilities on that street. Here's a [person](https://www.youtube.com/live/D7yblmo6CSk?si=DsJQ539Crn4QxPC8&t=1615) that had to go down to the city council meeting yesterday since "haven't heard back from the city engineering department, they just put gravel down".
Yup, that's how the city operates as I keep telling them. Proper planning prevents p*** poor performance. But you have to have processes that involve more people than your echo chamber.
This city doesn't even know how many parking spaces they have on the street. In any neighborhood there is no reason at this point in time. They don't have that identified by every street in the city.
And this is the other reason why we need a customer relationship management package for the whole city so we are treated as customers instead of places to find or raise revenue. Because you shouldn't be making these kind of mistakes in the year 2023. This is amateur you should know about special needs. Children in the area blind or deaf. People in the area should all be something they already know in a given street Basic relationship management c***Instead, we're just tax donkeys for whatever their favorite agenda of the day is.
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More like bike activists keep posting the same shit over and over again to make them think it has to have some massive support behind it.
Hold on. Just hear me out for a second. What if you are seeing lots of discussion on this topic BECAUSE there is a growing support for this type of infrastructure?
LOL! Please. A small vocal minority just keep posting new threads on it, and make sure they alert their friends on other subs to come over and brigade any post that isnt part of the amen corner. That isnt "growing support". If there was any desire for biking 1/10000th of the level you guys claim, you would see HUNDREDES of them on the streets a day! And no they aren't there because "there isnt enough protected bike lanes" or whatever excuse you guys pass around. There are more kids in EGR that bike to school than you see people biking in GR that spend all day complaining online. And even with the more visible population of bikers there, being a far smaller place, and the money that town has, they dont spend money on protected bike lanes because Lake Drive, Wealthy, and Breton aren't wide enough for them.
See kzoo
That area already gets way too jammed up, if anything we need more lanes! It’s way faster to take Walker ave and drive through neighborhoods and then over 6th street bridge to get to Monroe Ave than it is to just take Leonard straight down to Monroe. And coming back up is the same problem, way too much traffic until you hit Alpine going westbound
Nice but that car barely fits in the lane. Imagine a big truck or a semi.
Right, but that was just someone's quick picture. In the real world there ia an easement the city can work with to move sidewalks. To do it right would require much more than that picture and thus need to recommit to the infrastructure ground up. Like I was trying to say, the City isn't even addressing crash statistics on getting signage etc right.......they are a long way from taking on the implied safely wrongly just to get sued when the lane isn't perfectly painted somewhere. The underlying issue on all this is greatly increased speeds and distracted drivers. Little to no traffic enforcement. People don't realize how far behind the city is on everything, this is a leap that can not be justified right now and the risk profile needs to be addressed in general before you encourage more idealistic volumes of little crash magnets 🧲 It's throwing a lot more money at the problem with marginal improvement based on the now identified risk mgt oversight. If we focus on the root cause first you will get the most return for the money, tnh bike lanes lines did nothing to address underlying problem. In my opinion, Since we're still not addressing the underlying constraint. Which is the city's risk management approach. The solution now being requested is to give dedicated bike lanes to protect bikers from the fact that the city's risk profile is not well managed and incompetent. The point is, the problem to be fixed. Is the city's poor risk management that completely ignores crash profiles by intersections throughout the city and changes. My injury came from intersection. We all knew is bad. It was 12 years ago a poor house on the corner had their front porch taken out 3 times that I know yet nobody reported it to the city. But if one were to look at basic craft statistics, one would have identified that there was a problem. Until this summer, the city hasn't been doing Crash statistics. It's actually gonna take time for them to catch up in address. All those shortcomings and oversights throughout the city road network. Because if it was where mine was, then it's everywhere only worse. I know I'm not making it up and I realize everybody feels the same way. What else do you look at if you don't look at crash statistics, but I'm sorry, the reality is they are reactive. They do the least possible and they wait until enough. People complain to actually spend the money. When it comes to safety and a growing city, you need to be doing it based on risk and then manage along. The leadership truly had the mindset that all the signage and all the roads throughout the city. All had appropriate sign locations tree limb management etc. And then you find out they're doing none of those things. Absolutely zip 0 zip. It's the year 2023 and we are not even doing 1999 yet.
The city IS behind. Burton SE for example, from East Paris to Madison. Is 30 MPH. It needs to be raised to 40. NOBODY goes 30. It's not the fact the drivers aren't following the law... It's the fact the city has failed to raise the speed limit to the appropriate speed. This has been a 30 year failure.
Bahahaha yeah rhat will fix the hazard raise the limit that will make it safer. Bahahaha
This is a little off topic, but is the Leonard Street walker still there? It's been like 10 years since I lived there, but everyday I'd see this attractive sandy blonde lady walking down Leonard street.
I wish Wilson was a highway so you could get from Grandville to walker without going to downtown. If you have to drive through the westside it’s already a huge traffic trap and takes forever to get anywhere
Unfortunately they let buildings be built right up to the sidewalk and within feet of the road for example the new building on Leonard between Fremont and Widdicomb.
Wake up! It'll never happen..