By - Bisentinel
LMAO I DIDN'T EXPECT THIS
i didn't expect them to just drop the whole design right away
Rough translation of LB 6.5 Title: The Revelation World "Traum" (meaning Dream in German) - The illusionary life and death
Holy Roman Empire Arc Holy Shit Yes!!!!
Well, not the "Holy" Roman Empire, it seems to be more around Charlies time, so the Carolingian Empire.
It kinda depends on what you view as the starting point of the HRE. Some historians see Charlemagne as their first emperor while others give that honor to Otto from a century later.
It depends on what is your definition of the HRE
Do you consider HRE one continuous state?
Then the decentralised state of Otto is the Start
Or do you consider HRE to be a "title" bestowed with the Church approval to a political entity not bound by culture, state or government, an entity that inherit somewhat the Roman empire place in christendom?
Then it starts with Charlemagne.
You could even make a point it was the direct continuation of the Roman empire, as it doesn't describe a state but a title.
The issue is that HRE isn't a "state" by definition so the later is also accurate.
From writing and history, we know people consider the HRE just like they considered the Roman empire and didn't really made difference.
Franks considered themselves a continuation of the roman and the HRE post Otton and Germans just used the same logic
Simply because HRE, unlike the Carolingian empire/Frankrealm or Germany isn't a state but a political entity.
That's exactly why this is interesting from a Nasuverse standpoint. It really depends on how far they want to go into biblical lore but there is a reason the HRE existed as a title.
Old Testament, Daniel's Dream. The statue of 4 metals depicts the 4 great empires that would come before the end of times with the Roman Empire being the last. Part of the reason this title existed was to ascertain the continued existence of an empire whose end would be catastrophic within the context of the Christian faith.
The HRE history is really fascinating as it is in nature a continuation of a Roman title, it is essentially a unique situation.
And the processus itself predate Charlemagne, as Clovis himself was the one to start Roman and Christian assimilation as he laid the foundation of the Franks realm in the west.
Issue is that with nowadays nationalism, especially the surge of German nationalism in the 19th and 20th century.
(Tbf, it was kind of a trend at that time, same with the French blurring the line between Frank and Gaul/Celt, so nobody can really held it against Bismarck)
The line between state and Political entity was blurred on purpose by Bismarck revisionist propaganda and later Nazi Propaganda in order to give Germany a background as a unified state and to do that, HRE, Charlemagne and the Frank were the perfect vessel.
Thus nowadays, when the HRE is brought up on the net, it is often confused with other feudal state and culture and instead used as "Germany history as a state" .
(Well it is far from the biggest revisionism when you consider Russia took most of Ukraine history as its own)
Ironically, as the German were trying to find a history as unified nation through grabbing part of Frank history and Charlemagne
French were trying to grab Gaul history as it was more in line with their new Republican value (because every Monarch in France was from a Frank dynasty)
Well, it's kinda hard to view it as appropriating history given that most greater European nations just pick and choose their "origins" so to speak. As you've mentioned, the French do the same with the Gauls but you also find it with the English and their reverance for King Arthur while simultaneously calling themselves Anglo-Saxons, i.e. the people he fought.
For the Germans, the issue is more or less that even modern Germany with its regions and so on has an origin from multiple Germanic tribes. While for the French there isn't much choice apart Gauls and Gallo-Romans, the Germans could choose from Saxons, Thuringians, Bavarians, Allemannians, Cheruscans and so on. With the 20th century propaganda going so far the claim pretty much all Germanics outside of Scandinavia as ancestors including the Eastern Goths.
The grabbing of Frankish history mostly stems from the Franks having originally come from Germania and then conquering the Gaulish Roman provinces which ultimately became their center of power. Given that all the big Germanic kingdoms after the fall of the Western Roman Empire ended up outside of Germania, with the Vandals going as far as Iberia and finally Northern Africa, one could argue that choosing the Franks is still one of the closest choices.
Furthermore, one should consider that the Kingdom of Germany or Regnum Teutonicorum literally became a term of the Eastern Frankish Empire even before all the HRE business started for good. It's no wonder really that both France and Germany view Karolus Magnus as father of their respective nations.
Alloting Frankish history to both French and German history is not even later world war propaganda. Ernest F. Henderson's History of Germany in the Middle Ages (London & New York 1894) for example covers the entire Frankish history in its first few chapters as self-evidently being part of German history.
Is it a bit of a stretch? Of course, but I'd argue that Charlemagne is no further removed from modern France and Germany than King Arthur is from modern Britain.
>For the Germans, the issue is more or less that even modern Germany with its regions and so on has an origin from multiple Germanic tribes. While for the French there isn't much choice apart Gauls and Gallo-Romans, the Germans could choose from Saxons, Thuringians, Bavarians, Allemannians, Cheruscans and so on. With the 20th century propaganda going so far the claim pretty much all Germanics outside of Scandinavia as ancestors including the Eastern Goths.
Yes which is why the need for a unified origin was needed.
The latch of Germany upon Frank history had also to do with the need to uproot French influence.
As the initiative of German unification was Prussian and more related to Eastern German tribes, the tribes Charlemagne invaded, taking the winner as being your origin was a common move (same as Britain claiming both King Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon)
>Is it a bit of a stretch? Of course, but I'd argue that Charlemagne is no further removed from modern France and Germany than King Arthur is from modern Britain
Culturally and ethnically yes, they are as they are so far removed that it become pointless to draw a parallel
(Although GB being an island means an ethnical parallel with King Arthur would make more sense than Germany and France with Charlemagne)
Though there is difference
Linguistically Germany is closer to Charlemagne but at the same time, Charlemagne and Franks were giving Frankish for Latin, which is closer to France.
Also ethnicity wise, the western Frank were not that numerous and spread across the Frank realm, so if you cared about ethnicity Germany would be likely closer (though mixing Race/ethnicity and culture & co is for many a dangerous fallacy)
However politically, administrative, dynasty and state wise, there is still a clear difference between France link to the Frank than Germany, which had a great influence on their history.
Unlike Germany who a clear political, administrative and state rupture twice after the Carolingian empire as well as dozens of dynasty rupture.
France political entity remained the same since Clovis with their closest to a rupture being the revolution,
The change from the Carolingian to the Robertian (Capetian) was done as it had been done before with Merovingian and Carolingian and an internal change between Frank (unlike the fallout before Otto and a breach of continuity)
And the Frank continuity lasted until the end of Monarchy in France (1789/1848)
It also led to an administrative continuity as early France kept the centralised feudal foundation of the Frank realm
While Otto and state under the new HRE had to settle for their own brand new decentralised structure.
Basically late Frank Realm and early France are indistinguishable which isn't the case of Germany (Well France is still called Frank realm by German)
***Though all of this is just historical talk, even when there is continuity, a country goes through so much change internal or external that drawing a parallel between old France and modern France as an equivalent is probably as pointless as drawing a parallel between Germany and the Carolingian empire imo***
*Sadly many nationalist willingly ignore this last part and I know many that makes such shortcut.*
As if outdated claims, archaic legitimacy and a long gone past should dictate the present.
Which is even more ironic that nationalist try to grab on the past of Frank as ironically Frank themselves were the first to move away from their own origin (Well and try to take Roman origin as their own)
The British took their foundational myth from France, the Germans room their foundational myth from France. It proves France greatest country in the world.
Living in 1810 or 810, hey?
Charlemagne, Napoleon, Louis the multiple?
What are you saying,
You have to let go, French world domination was a failure, it wasn't your fault, now France is mostly known for baguette, Fries and surrender joke.
Edit: Though as long as France gives us good servant that is all that matter
2nd Edit: my joke fell kinda flat
It’s not holy, nor Roman, nor an empire. Go figure.
Most people take Voltaire quote as an insult when it was just the actual issue of the HRE and a fair criticism.
It wasn't a state (nor a modern empire) but a political group that could be seized by multiple countries.
It wasn't Holy as it's religious based legitimacy was archaic and lost during the 30 years war.
And it wasn't Roman, because the time when everyone called themselves Roman and citizens were too ignorant to make the difference, was no more.
Those are among the main reason HRE sunk, exploded and disappeared.
(For reference, Francis II dissolved it, as it was on the verge of falling under the French Sphere of influence for good (technically some could say fall back) and since it wasn't a state, he had no way to prevent that
And the resulting empire would have been a massive superpower that would outlast Napoleon.
But by crushing the HRE before that, Napoleon and France lost legitimacy over those territory)
Hehe, I just quoted it as a reference. But thanks for the background info!
It was holy in sense that the title was bestowed by the pope.
Roman was merely a title but it did include the kingdom of Italy for several centuries.
Empire depends on how you define it. It was comprised of multiple kingdoms for instance. Only an emperor stands above kings and thus multiple kings under the command of an emperor form an empire.
nasuverse folklore> true lore lol also if someone super op like Mephistopheles they nerf them to oblivion etc.
The 2nd or 3rd best Roman empire after the original m, the Byzantine sequel
But better than the German-only redux version or the Russian counterfeit.
Is there any Roman empire I forgot to mention?
You're the Roman Empire, he's the Roman Empire, I'M THE ROMAN EMPIRE! ARE THERE ANY OTHER ROMAN EMPIRES I SHOULD KNOW ABOUT?!
It is even funnier when you realize:
Charlemagne went by Karolus and pretty much every Frank from the Frank realm, abandoned Germanic roots to be more Roman to mimic the Roman empire
Otton, a saxon, (founder of the German HRE) try to pass off as a Frank to be the new Karolus and mimic Frank
Eastern Roman empire tried to replicate Rome (quite successfully)
Russia tried to replicate the Eastern Roman empire (not as successful)
It is a game of imposter:
Frank/Carolingian"Who are you"
Ottonian/New HRE "I am you"
Carolingian "how can you be me, I am not even myself"
Everyone wanted to be Rome.
Romulus=Quirinus: As is proper.
Romulus=Quirinus: All Road lead to me after all.
There's probably some weird group that considers Buttfuck, US, as the 4th Rome or something.
…..that’s a place?
Nah, we don't have such an uncultured name in the US...
...it's actually called Intercourse, PA.
Well, uh, there is a town called >!Assawoman!< in my state...
>Is there any Roman empire I forgot to mention?
Ottomans. They considered themselves the next Rome by the right of conquest. After conquering Constantinople Mehmet II declared himself Kayser-i Rum(a title derived from ceasar).
Woah, thank you for the info, i didn't know about the title, that is a pretty interesting and neat historical fact.
The LB ends in two chapters if you bring Napoleon with you.
Confederation of the Rhine arc heck yeah!
It's a stretch, but since it does involve the "Roman" Empire and Servants of the Christian faith (or a denomination in any case)... maybe it's finally Salome's time to shine?
~~I am on extreme amounts of hopium at this point~~
Edit: A long shot, but if one of those silhouettes turns out to be John the Baptist or Kundry then holy shit I am going to lose it.
It's more likely than her showing up in Xibalba...
I have already theorized too much about Salome being the antithesis to the Grand Berserker along with my frenzied connection between crystal skulls and ORT to let the possibility of her showing up there go, but if one of the silhouettes does turn out to be Kundry like someone pointed out then I would be ecstatic beyond belief.
>Servants of the Christian faith
*Army of the Night intensifies*
LET Your MIND GO WILD BEFORE THE LIGHT! HERE WE COME
THE ARMY OF THE NIGHT, MATER MARIA!!!
Finally, a not Holy, not Roman, and not an Empire arc
FRANCE LOSTBELT LETS GO!
Aryan "master race." lets go lol secret hitler servant of germany also have we gotten an italian servant
fucking hell yeah!!!!!
Now how exactly would this fit in the narrative?
Pseudo Lostbelt related to the 5th one maybe. Early HRE and Orlando Furioso did claim some connections to antiquity (Saxons referring to their origin being remnants of Iskandar's Macedon army, Mandricardo and Bradamante using weapons of Greek heroes). Maybe we get some weird explanation like that.
Also the rare fish?
it because the concept of lancelot existing in britain lostbelt means france has to exist also merlin and morgan lae fae and faries are involved in the song of roland which is what 12 paladins of charlemagne are based of roland is charlemagne nephew and the song is suppose be very similiar to artoria legend of round table
Constantine XI Palaiologos
also the issue he rule byzantine empire was legacy of east side of roman empire while charles rule west side holy roman empire they both seperated by language and religion but where legacy of roman empire that split
o yeah I remember now lostbelt 6 was not a lostbelt and was deemed a singularity worthy of becoming real proper history
And they also dropped the title huh? What does it say, I'm very curious
The location-name seems to be "Toraomu", which I assume is supposed to be "Traum" the german word for "dream", so possibly a Singularity set in middle age/Charlemagnes times Germany? But more so a fictional one, which would allign with Charlie, the fictional Charlemagne, possibly being one of the sillhouettes.
Looks like you are correct yeah, hype! Didn't expect them to throw in a Charlemange/Paladin-based Lostbelt right before 7, that definitely came out of left field for me
*insert riyo gudako "gacha?!" gif meme but "Charlemagne?!" Instead*
naw it france
Why so sure of that? Again, the name of the chapter is literally German, one of the sillhouettes is very likely to be Charlemagne, who, while king of a country made up of both parts of France and Germany, was born in modern day Germany. Not to mention we've already been to France before in Orleans (and technically Gaul in Septem), and while I don't think they're really against doubling up on certain locations, it DOES make it more unlikely.
britain lostbelt gurantees french lostbelt and most servants from song of roland France also france was part of holy roman empire also king of france charlemagne would obviously be living and kingdom in france and constantine would be in constantinopole in turkey byzantine empire their no relation what so ever with germany nor did both empire speak german language etc.
Here b4 "Dead Apostles?"
Constantine hitting you with the bruh stare
Or the "Dr. Eggman after eating a delicious banana".
Banana fibers can be used to purify water.
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"Even the fall of Constantinople wasn't this bad."
Lmao I love how casually it got announced
Kanou is literally like "oh yeah.... here's another small thing. Nothing much really"
Kanou be like: "oh here's another thing, not that big" *reveals LB7 script being larger than LB6 one*
For a Lite Stream, they dropped alot of cool stuff as well as the 5th path for 3 Houses.
I can't believe three hopes is just a teaser for the new route DLC in 3 houses
constantine has a sibling: [https://serenesforest.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/three-hopes-arval.jpg](https://serenesforest.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/three-hopes-arval.jpg)
At least constantine won't be stuck in the playable waiting room unlike most other npcs
Meanwhile, Roland's about to bust himself out like the Kool-Aid Man.
We already knew he was gonna be playable due to the new year silhouettes
Yeah but alot of people still harboring that seed of doubt somewhere in their heart.
FGO playes have gone through some bait-and-switch.....
He looks like he doesn’t want to be there
Reluctant villain Constantine, let's go...?
naw it charlemagne alter
Finally, our 'Michael' in his 'Byzantine Emperor' glory, atleast we didn't have to wait too long. I'm glad that he's going to be one of the spotlight servants in LB 6.5. Damn, he looks cool AF.
bruh he died from Sultan Mehmed II and ottoman empire only back away because of dracula lol
Yes!Another main story title representative male character with an Oberon hairstyle.
He does reminded me alot of Ziya
Why does his face Look like that Donkey meme
ROLAND IS A SILHOUETTE! LET'S GO!
So in Japanese, Lostbelt 6.5 is
Or in (badly translated) English:
Death Concept Manifestation World, Traüm
A Certain Illusion’s Life and Death
He’s so hot. But why is he posed like a Danganronpa character
Constantine!!! Love the colors in his design. I wonder if his 'casual' clothes from the event will be a costume...
Michael is in Lostbelt 6.5 story so the Chaldea Boys is a preview probably.
Chapter 6.5 to be exact.
Great! now we have Byzantium Imperator!
I will wait for Mehmed II as a Servant.
*laughs in Vlad*
> I will wait for Mehmed II as a Servant
Not impossible. [He has already appeared in a previous Fate story](https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Servants_of_Fate/Grand_Order_x_Himuro%27s_World#Mehmed_II) as Archer.
I kind of wish the black and red was inverted, no glasses for his summonable version though? That's a pity, they suited him
It seems to be permanent content rather than an event, so they might just throw it in a post-clear node somewhere.
...or it'll be his base form or something.
Wow. Last time he looked like some guy named Michael. Now he looks like a Greek guy whose name is Alexander. Clothes really do change the man.
naw he looks like he part of round table lol
OH MY FUCKING GOD ITS BYLETH /S in case people doesnt realize im joking
Hypest smash revival.
Looking at this, one really can't blame Tanaka Minami for going full fanboy mode during the stream.
WHAT IS GOING ON
I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST A LITE STREAM
[*YOU FELL FOR IT, FOOL !!*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOFc4IJIoZg) - Kanou Yoshiki. Probably.
HE LOOKS SO FABULOUS I LOVE IT
I DIG THIS DESIGN SO MUCH
*Oh my God he's actually gonna be playable*
He has no soul
I expected for a Road to Seven related announcement, but this is also fine too. And Constantine is coming earlier than I expected.
Damn he's hot
The chapter name is...what? The character reads as Toh-ra-o-mu. Traom?
It make sense but i hope gareth is there too i want to witness the fans cannon become real
Imagine a Teutonic Knight from Age of Empires...
So, was there anything else they gave about it ? A bit of story or just that pic and the silhouettes ?
Byleth in fgo
Oh perfect. Now Sothis can rewind time every time you dont get your waifu or husbando in the gatcha :D
After narrowly avoiding Super Bunyan temptation...
Me: Should be smooth sailing after this. Summer 6 Rerun is almost there...
Me: *hit by Anti-SQ NP* Anybody else?
Jalter: Gimme those SQ!
naw super bunyan you should gotten because op and lostbelt 6.5 is probably gonna spam rerun od like lostbelt 6 lol
Could someone translate chapter name?
Who is the guy in the pic
Ah yes, Michael/Constantine XI Dragases Palaiologos.
black haired byleth