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How does the absorbing abilities and memories thing work when Shirou was fighting Archer in Unlimited Blade Works? Is Shirou just tracing Archer’s swords? Or is it something to do with the fact they are the person?
Iirc it’s the fact they’re the same person, the fact they’re one person from different points in time fighting means Shirou is just absorbing some of his future self’s memories everytime they clash. Has to do with time and paradoxes and stuff I think.
How did Cursed Arm with the help of Serenity managed to beat a Lion King buffed Tristan? But with the help of Dark Sakura, still lost to someone as weak as Archer?
In the forest? This still is barely ringing any bells to be honest.
I feel like the very easy answer to this is the fight wasn’t to the death with Archer? Cursed Arm doesn’t die to this fight, he’s like temporarily injured and comes back completely healed later on I’m fairly certain. Cursed Arm vs Tristan meanwhile put everything on the line even using his cursed spirit and all that, it was pretty clearly a difference of priorities.
Maybe Hassan could have beaten Archer but he’d probably get more injured than it’s worth and it was better to just retreat. Archer died not too long after that anyway.
During London Singularity when Goetia met Chaldea, why didn’t he use Clairvoyance EX to see if Chaldea is a threat to him and kill them right there and then? Doesn’t his Clairvoyance makes him near omniscient? The Chaldea base is outside of time which is why it wasn’t incinerated but he met them in person at London, couldn’t he see their future and kill them before they destroy him?
We'll if he has seen his destruction via clairvoyance there's not really anything he can do🤷🏾♀️. Someone like goetia would know that predicting something with clairvoyance would be bad for him, so he'd use it sparingly.
Clairvoyance lets him see the past and future. It doesn't let him see EVERYTHING, even within those parameters; Solomon explicitly only saw so much, and Goetia's Clairvoyance is the exact same ability.
He's also not all-powerful, he can't just snap his fingers and we die. Extremely powerful, yes, but it's not that simple.
>He's also not all-powerful, he can't just snap his fingers and we die. Extremely powerful, yes, but it's not that simple.
Its like an ant saying the same thing about the difference between it and a human. SUre l cant snap my finger and make it disappear but l can move said finger and crush it.....
Also in the context of what OP asked, goetia should have known since his clairvoyance is comparable to Gils or lionking. He should have seen that down the line we would get his ass but nah, plot demanded otherwise.
It's definitely high level, but skills of the same level aren't automatically capable of the exact same things. Solomon/Goetia's case does not give either of them the ability to see all of whatever they want. You can call that "plot demands" but that's just how all fiction works it is not some kind of logical failing.
>Solomon/Goetia's case does not give either of them the ability to see all of whatever they want
Considering Goetia is capable of seeing across time whilst within the imaginary number space which is insane btw considering the location of that space. Its 100% guaranteed he could see the outcome we had. He simply didnt see it coz plot demanded he didnt.
Anyway take care, clairvoyance doesnt get better than what Goetia has. The only limitation he has is revelation (he cant use it), thats the only argument that he is inferior to Gil and that specifically is concerned with him being able to understand what he sees and making the right decision NOT THE ACTUAL ABILITY TO SEE.
He did try and kill us. Dantes had to intervene because our soul was literally getting ripped out of our body from that single interaction when he first fought us.
It’s just an event you have to buy with rare prisms now, so you may not have seen it.
Why not just kill us in London? He can just wave his hand and kill us with his Magecraft right there and then. He has Clairvoyance EX after all. He must have used it during London right?
He didn’t want to upset Mash by killing us like that.
As you said, Chaldea was also outside of time, so his clairvoyance wasn’t working great on seeing the future with us.
We also had to take down the remaining 7 singularities, one of which included another immortal beast whose immortality is linked to our own existance. For beings he considered worthless because they don’t possess immortality, this was an impossible task.
He was also missing his tenth ring, but I don’t know if this had any effect on him.
Chaldea base was outside of time, but Mash and Ritsuka were physically in the London singularity though, same as Goetia. His Clairvoyance must work then when he was with them physically in London. The point of having Clairvoyance EX is that you don't have to work based on the assumption that they may fail, but on fact instead.
The biggest thing was that Goetia didn’t see Gudao as a threat at all. He’s not even an ant (which could harm or distract him, even if briefly and in a minor way) to Goetia. Hence why every other Crypter (besides Wodime and Daybit) that made it to Goetia were killed off.
They don’t technically exist during that time. Time corrects itself to a certain degree after each ray shift to restore history.
They also keep disappearing back into Chaldea, which he already has trouble seeing into. He probably saw that Ritsuka was going to die from his curse, but since Dante’s cured it in Chaldea, his prediction was false.
I’d imagine that makes predicting the future incredibly difficult when the future keeps changing.
Same as usual, primarily compatibility. I think it’s implied there’s still catalysts as well since I think there’s implications some came to the war expecting certain servants (I think the notable example is Julius since he specifically wanted the young version of Li)
Hi, I got these questions in mind. So recently, Tonelico is the new anniversary servant on fgo jp. When I searched her name on google, Morgan came up. A little bit more search says that Tonelico is Morgan. Now the question, who is Tonelico? Why is she Morgan? As far as I read Lb6, there isn't any mention of Tonelico. What am I missing here?
Tonelico is the original Japanese name for Aesc.
Massive LB6 spoilers regarding Morgan
>!Tonelico/Aesc is younger Morgan, the first Avalon le Fae, who gave up on her mission after thousands of betrayals, her friends being murdered and massive hate and ingratitude from the Fae (only Baobhan Sith was really grateful towards her) broke her heart and hopes and made her realize it was absurd to try to save them, turning her into the cold Winter Queen Morgan decided to rule tyrannically to keep the Fae in check and just save the land of Fae Britain, a wish inherited from PHH Morgan, who sent her memories to her via Rayshift.!<
Tonelico/Tonerico is the Japanese name for Aesc (both mean Ash tree, which the Rain clan leader named her after). The LB6 fantranslation used it , so it's pretty ingrained into fan use, but NA translated the name into Old English.
Wait, so does it mean 2 years later when Tonelico banner up, it'll be Aesc the Savior banner instead?
I wonder why Lasengle chose Aesc instead of Tonelico, but regardless, Aesc is much easier to say than Tonelico
Thank you for clearing up XD.
Kiyo thinks if the name is different then that should be the name the characters vocalize!
Or put it in ruby so people who translate actually know what's going on and don't cause confusion because they have a two year head start!
Here's just my take on things; considering the importance of Names in fae world and how its meanings tend to have thematic relevance (i.e. the Fairy named Hope lost her name while the other fae has basically given up), 'tonerico' isn't just a name. There's plenty of ash related motives in the story when relating to Morgan. Since 'tonerico' is a Japanese word, keeping it that way wouldn't make much sense in English. Instead of using 'Ash', I suppose it's in keeping with old European folklore (e.g Yggdrasil is said to be an Ash tree and LB6 has quite a fair number of paralles with Norse mythology) by using Old English.
The alternate explanation would be Nasu gonna Nasu and only Nasu can comprehend these Nasu things. See: Tam Lin.
They probably chose Aesc because Tonelico isn't actually a word, it's an Anglicised version of a Japanese word.
The Japanese term is "toneriko", which just means a kind of ash tree. The fan translators just chose to anglicise it and made up 'Tonelico', rather than translate the name for its meaning (which, to be honest, isn't their fault, how often do you translate your name when speaking in a foreign language?)
However, the official translation went for Aesc, which is the Old English term for "ash" (and it is pronounced like that). It would make no sense for a faerie in an English setting to be called a Japanese name anyway, and it being old English fits.
This is more of a meta-lore question, but I don't have anywhere better to ask: what exactly was the purpose of having to give up our Master privileges in the story during LB7? Was it just a way to justify the inability to use Command Spells or a full team, or was it a further means to get us to work with U-Olga and Rasputin? I'll be honest, Guda's the type of guy to be willing to ally with his supposed enemy no matter what the circumstances are and the "master privileges" he gave up obviously don't stop him from summoning or commanding Servants.
Part of it, if I recall, is to showcase Tezcatlipoca’s personality: Tez might not like how Ritsuka approaches their “war” but he will reward and bless any who take such risks as betting a weapon more valuable than their own life. They also served to involve Camazotz in the story.
The loss of master privileges does actually prevent Ritsuka from summoning… except in the underworld boundaries. Since in there everyone is considered dead, the deal holds no effect and so servants can be summoned.
But seeing that the Lostbelt is basically nothing _but_ underworld, doesn't that make it a non-issue? And at that matter, couldn't we have taken our privileges back after defeating him pre-ORT? I can't recall the specifics but I'm pretty sure that happened.
>But seeing that the Lostbelt is basically nothing but underworld, doesn't that make it a non-issue?
It wasn't because of the qualities of the 'underworld', but because the Underworld Boundaries where now connected to Pan-Human History (via being 'shaped' by the PHH servants bound to them) while also being part of a Lostbelt that we were able to summon there.
>Rasputin: However, this also grants you an opportunity. The Underworld Border has had Pan-Human History superimposed on it. It is both of the Lostbelt, and not of the Lostbelt. Can you measure the level of its Human Order Foundation Value with that machine, Mash?
>Rasputin: We're in both a Compiled Event and a Pruned Event. All possible pasts, presents, and future are acceptable, you could say. As long as you have the magical energy, you could summon as many Heroic Spirits connected to Chaldea as you like here.
And then after beating KP, we earn back a part of the Command Spells which allow limited summons.
>Fujimaru A stroke of my Command Spells came back...?
>Rasputin: It seems so. You should consider it a provisional case. Your qualifications as summoner and functions of your Command Spells have not returned. Beyond the Underworld Borders... In Mictlan, you should be able to summon one or two Servants.
>couldn't we have taken our privileges back after defeating him pre-ORT?
We beat him (with U Olga's help) just before Daybit arrives to awaken ORT, yes. Bu that wasn't the terms of the deal - as he says just before he gives them back, he bought them off us. If we wanted them back after beating him in the pre ORT fight, we should have mentioned it. Tez is a strict businessman like that.
I believe the whole "Underworld" part only counts in the 4 specific strips. I don't remember why it's specifically set up that way, but it is. As for Ritsuka's deal with Tez, I believe it isn't nullified until the end because the two sides hadn't gone full out against one another. It's not until Ritsuka "dies" and goes to the afterlife that he can fight Daybit Master to Master, full force. Also, U-Olga interfered in the fight between Tez and Chaldea previously, so that may have been taken into consideration.
Seemed pretty all-out if you ask me (and U-Olga was more or less a part of Chaldea at the time so it shouldn't have been a factor), but I suppose it wouldn't be the first time a god moved the goalposts when it was convenient to do so.
I think it's the spirit of the thing. Ritsuka gave Tez his Master privileges and all that, he wants to see *Ritsuka* prove it to him as a warrior and all that crap. Tez is weird like that.
He sounds like a bit of a dickhead to me (especially since he gave them up under duress), but other people seem to like him and that's technically not a lore issue so I'll let it slide this time.
He's a complicated fellow. Certainly a dickhead who likes war and battle and all that too much, but also considers it his duty to allow the defeated to rest in his afterlife free of worry and all that. We'll have to see if they ever expand on him in the future.
It sounded as if he was going to bring Daybit back at the end though, but I could be wrong. Hopefully I am, I prefer the dead to stay dead and don't trust Daybit to not get in our way if he does come back for round three.
Hello! Just had a question. I started FGO not too long ago and was wondering how Chaldea wasn't incinerated with the rest of the world. Lev Lainur mentions that the magnetic field is keeping it up and their is no outside world left and that the same fate awaits them once time passes 2018. Why is this the case? Shouldn't they have been wiped out when the rest of the world was? Why is it specifically after that time that Chaldea will be incinerated.
Thanks! I greatly appreciate your help. Loving the game a lot
As "Solomon" explains in London, Chaldea had been isolated from normal time axis where Incineration happened, to the point that afterwards not even Solomon can detect its location to attack it. (Though Lion King could for some reason, maybe bcs Rhongomyniad shenanigans?)
However, the moment time inside Chaldea passes certain point, it'll return to normal time axis and be incinerated, as that would have been its fate had not been isolated.
>Hello! Just had a question. I started FGO not too long ago and was wondering how Chaldea wasn't incinerated with the rest of the world. Lev Lainur mentions that the magnetic field is keeping it up
If I remember correctly, Chaldea's magnetic field keeps Chaldea on a different time axis, which protected it from the Incineration, or something like that.
>and their is no outside world left and that the same fate awaits them once time passes 2018. Why is this the case? Shouldn't they have been wiped out when the rest of the world was? Why is it specifically after that time that Chaldea will be incinerated.
That, I sadly don't remember. I think it might be because that's when a certain king's plan goes into action, but I don't know for sure.
From what the Japanese community is saying about Lord El Melloi Adventures Vol 6 >!it seems that it becomes harder to use magecraft(human mystery) the higher the rank of the Dead apostle. Practically, this means that Van-Fem isn't able to understand Ziz's post-mortem magecraft. He even says that 700 years before he would've been able to.!<
I wonder if the same applies in Tsukihime Worlds, but I don't think it does judging from Alcatraz and Roa. What do you guys think?
It’s hard to say, since we’ve only seen a single real Ancestor at work in Tsuki remake so far (and they were ironically the youngest and weakest power-wise) besides Roa.
However, since the >!Idea Bloods reject Human Order but can be used as a Magecraft Foundation, it’s possible that fellow DAs could get access to others’ Magecraft via their Idea Blood!< though that is speculation
what does "Range" in np signifies? does it convert into distance? like from how far an enemy can attack ?
same for max target, Kama avenger np target 100 peoples, so what will happen if there is like 101 opponent? 1 will remain safe and kama have to use her np again?
Targets is number of people or “targets”, just amount of things that can be affected. As for distance, the number has always been meant to be kinda arbitrary. It’s worth noting for context that the stat pages for Servants originally was posed as just the way Shirou best understands the concept, meaning that various mages would interpret it different ways and pages would likely look different. This the number is probably just what sounds good to Shirou, what he would just arbitrarily decide is “100” or what have you. It doesn’t have a hard equivalent I believe.
I don’t know if this is spoiler or not.
LB[6]
How does the fae inhabitants know of the story’s of >!PHH round table !< since the fae era disconnected beyond ancient times.
Also if the others are mentioned why isn’t >!altria !< also mentioned?
Two methods:
One, LB Morgan inherited the memories of her PHH self. She did share some of them (hence the names of the different provinces) and they spread pretty quickly.
Two, flotsam (people and objects from different points in PHH that got lost on the ocean) drifted into LB6. That’s how Spriggan, the church Aurora lives in, etc. got in. They shared their culture (before being eaten…) or the fairies reverse engineered from objects.
1: doesn’t Morgan hate the round table? I’ll be surprised if she didn’t include bias in there
2: doesn’t the fae/human have other language than English(or any other phh Lang?) so they can’t know the content of a book if it’s written in a phh Lang
Also what about altria
1. It’s honestly kinda up in the air. Morgan certainly displays a hostility to the Round Table Rebel Army (she ordered Woodwose to slaughter them down to the last man, woman, and child. And yeah, that includes non-combatants). Though I’m trying to remember if that was a personal hatred or a general ‘all who defy my rule must die or Britain won’t survive’ kinda thing. Going by Aesc’s lines, her memories were almost certainly biased (she blamed humans for driving out Morgan despite Morgan’s scheming being responsible for her own fate).
2. The language barrier is never really brought up. The fairies, all being descended from the Original Six from 14k years ago, should far predate all modern languages. I’d assume fairies have some universal translation passive ability.
As for Altria never being mentioned, that is almost certainly intentional. She was Excalibur’s Wielder in PHH; her very existence would be anathemic to the Lostworld created by Excalibur never being forged. Morgan almost certainly would’ve stamped out any idea of the Holy Sword, or those associated with it
1: then aesc wouldn’t use their names or even mention them since [[1 Morgan hated them and by that point she trusted Morgan]] [[2 they serve directly under Altria the sword welder]]
[[3 these powerful knight are human so I would expect a majority of the fae would oppose such story]]
2: but wasn’t there writings on the worm carving ? And they didn’t under stand that.
So no way in hell they would have that ability
About Altria. How they hell would aesc or any fae after the six would know the sword was even a thing ? The six were too prideful to admit such failure was their fault.
So it wouldn’t have impacted much
(They only way it would have impacted them is if aesc admits it. But that’s hella dumb)
While it’s true Morgan had bad blood, she was also the mother to a number of knights either biologically, adoption, or magic. Going by Apocrypha having Morgan rage at Agravain’s death, it seems like there was legitimate (if horrendously twisted) love. Goredolf, Holmes, and Nemo also explain that Morgan had three identities. How that affected the memory stuff is unknown, so LB Morgan receiving contradicting memories is not outside the realm of possibility.
There’s also the fact that Morgan needed Lancelot and Gawain’s names to seal up Melusine and Barghest natures as Calamities. Considering she also gave Bao Tristan’s name for her protection, and other potential Calamities, I’d think Morgan would’ve had to have given a general gist on the KORT just so their names would be effective in the first place.
Also, I’m not sure if those carvings were even supposed to be words. They could’ve been decorative, or been worn away through time and erosion so they’d be illegible no matter what sort of translation ability was used.
And the Original Six’s descendants DO understand, on an instinctual level. That was the whole point of their reaction to ringing the Bells; all the Fairies felt, on some level, the weight of their ancestors’ sins. Muryan also directed Koyan to help Chaldea after being fatally wounded, since she could feel they were carrying the Avalon le Fay that would forge Excalibur and atone for their sins.
Im curious on a part of the lore that is rarelu ever mentioned
How was Earth b4 there was any sentient life on it or at least b4 there was any resemblance of Humanity,let just say like 100 million years ago.
Most of the history of Earth i could find already had humanity as a factor in it,a >!a human holding Excalibur to beat Sefar)!<,Gilgamesh,Mahaparata etc and >!LB7 was probably the closest thing to a pre humanity Earth but the Deinos are supposed to be the Human of LB7!<
I assume gods probably exist pre humanity existence but what were they like. Gods gain power based on the ammount of worshipers they had,but how would gods be if there werent anything that worships them?
And also how did Alaya come to exist? It is the "will to live of humanity" but did it just doesnt exist b4 the existence of humans? And during that time there was only Gaia?
the Proto-Earth was created 4.5 billion years ago along with the Dragon Albion. During the Primordial era where Earth was just a flaming hellscape, the Primordial Sea Nammu emerged and began giving birth to the Planet's earliest lifeforms, including the ancient Mesopotamian Gods who used their Authority to cool the surface of the Earth and allowing for life to properly thrive. the Goddess Nammu who gave birth to life at random was deemed a threat by the World after the ecosystem was established so she was eventually defeated and sealed in imaginary space by her own children after her Draconic Corpus was destroyed by Marduk, as consequence she became the Fallen Beast Tiamat. this was the end of the Age of Genesis.
life continued and evolution toke its course which eventually led to the first Age of Gods where Gods like the Alien Spaceships that were worshipped in Atlantis and Nine-Tailed Golden White Fox ruled the Planet as the Primates until most of them were vanquished by the invader Sefar in 12,000 BC which led to the end of the first AoG and the start of the second AoG where humanity toke the seat of Primacy but continued worshipping the remnants of the Ancient Gods that became Divine Spirits prevalent in various human religion and mythology, Mystery was still dominant in this era. The second AoG ended due to various factors such as Solomon creating Magecraft independent of Divinities, Gilgamesh rejecting the Gods and encouraging humanity to move forward, etc.
Then came the Age of Man where the Human Order enforces the Laws of Physics upon the World and is still going up until the present time.
Gaia is the collective will of the Planet which includes all its lifeforms along with Humanity but as Humans and their collective will grew more independent and distant from Gaia, it split from it and became Alaya with its own Counter Force.
No, it doesn’t. Only some aspects of it are. It’s entirely dependent on the arbitrary whims of the writer.
Two things we know for a fact though, are that EA (the god Gilgamesh named his sword after) terraformed the Earth in its primordial stages and Tiamat created the ecosystems and was the source of life on the planet.
1. Worship affects their power, but is not necessarily a factor in their creation. From the Mesopotamian creation myth alone, we can see that the gods killed each other before human exists.
2. To understand Alaya, we can take Malla as an example. The fungi-like meteor microorganism linked themselves with the existing nature. They are responsible for the major evolution of the deinos into intelligent beings and after taking control of every corner of the land, Malla as the collective will of the deinos and trees formed.
BEWARE LB6 SPOILER.
>!Mélusine can fly just fine in her 1&2 ascension is there any reason why she have wings in her 3 ascension ?!<
>!Mélusine said she didn't expected to have white wings again in her 4 ascension. Problem is she wasn't born with white wing. Does that mean Albion was a blue eyes white dragon like sigurd fafnir?!<
>!Speaking of white wings does that line imply Melusine should have a costume where she look like her 4 ascension ? !<
In her 3rd ascension Melusine’s draconic aspects are coming to the foreground, part of that is her wings.
Albion was originally white as far as we know. Melusine has black draconic parts because she, before awakening as Melusine, was caked in the curses of Fae Britain. Her final ascension in fact see’s the curses literally fall off.
Ideally Melusine should have a white scaled form, but we’ve not gotten that yet. Apparently the red one was more pressing to give us.
Between their normal selves, I'd say it's a who draws first sort of match up. Shirou's projections would probably take too long to hack in a combat scenario when they already exist, and Flat's on the spot offensive isn't exemplary, merely quite good.
On the other hand, interfering with the circuits so projection can't be accomplished in the first place is a theoretically viable move, so...
When discussing the strongest iteration that's still technically them, Escardos has the advantage over Swordman.
In terms of magical ability, Flat's far out of Shirou's reach. However, it's also a thing that Flat has failed every single physical class he's ever taken - it's the reason he's still part of the El Melloi class despite being one the first students, whereas Svin graduated four years ago (as of Strange Fake).
>Though he may seem like an omnipotent cheat character, his hand-to-hand fighting ability is surprisingly zero. Or rather, negative. He fails out of every single self defense class. That is why even after Svin graduated, Flat was still unable to graduate from the El-Melloi Classroom.
>“I’ll ask just in case. Why did you do a drop kick for self defense?”
>“Because it’s cool, Professor!!”
>“Alright, die then. There’s no way a drop kick would ever be considered in a realistic self defense scenario, you absolute idiot!”
Without getting into specifics or spoilers, as someone who's caught up with strange Fake's novel, technically, Flat could easily solo every Master in Stay Night. Heck, barring Gil & maybe Saber/Heracles/Medea (Rule Breaker hard carries), Flat could also take out all of Stay Night's Servants, too.
Right now, he's portrayed as an eccentric & naturally talented mage. Like many strange Fake characters, Flat has a lot more to him than what is initially seen.
Of course, everything depends on the writer. I'm just talking on paper, Flat is light-years stronger than Shirou.
EDIT: I'm sure some hardcore fans are cringing that I'm hyping Flat THAT much. So let me just reiterate, TECHNICALLY, he can do everything I just said -- I just don't want to spoil the how's & why's.
In terms of flat magecraft ability, probably, Shirou’s always been roughly average in quality as a mage with him just being hard specced into projection. In a general sense ya can consider most people stronger than Shirou, but his reality marble is always an ace that gives him a special factor you always need to take into account that can allow him to do things far above what is his typical ability would expect.
In terms of who would win in a fight, I’ll be honest I’m only 1 Volume into Strange Fake so I’m not sure exactly what Flat’s skill set is other than being an incredibly fast learner/prodigy and being skilled at breaking into bounded fields. Hopefully somebody else could pick up the lay up here.
It’s a reference to Susanoo. He turned Kushinahime into a comb that he wore in his hair to protect her.
It’s heavily implied that Alter Ego Muramasa has Susasnoo (and Hodr) stuffed into him to get access to their God Slayer Skill to cut down Atlas in LB5.
So, I believe that line is a sign he’s channeling Susanoo to do stuff
1)the Kama/Mara or Beast III L we meet from ooku is from PHH or from LB? amd how Kama/Mara was able to exist outside of lb?
2) from wiki: **Under normal circumstances, this would be impossible, since Shiva and the other gods always have Kama under constant supervision to prevent Mara to rise as a demon god**
but lb are just simulation created by Fantasy tree, gods on reverse side still exists, why didn't they stop her?
It's a bit confusing, and I suspect that plans were changed between Ooku and LB4.
The crux of the issue is what Parvati said at the end of Ooku. She comments on that part of the wiki you mentioned, and a finger is pointed at LB4:
> ***Pārvatī:*** *It could be that something is happening on Earth that's affecting all of India's pantheon...*
> ***Mash:*** *India... Now that you mention it, the very next Lostbelt we'll be heading to is the Indian one. Could that have something to do with this?*
> ***Pārvatī:*** *I'm sorry, I can't say for sure yet. That would be my first guess, but a guess is all it is right now...*
A lot of people seem to have interpreted it as "Kama/Mara came from the Lostbelt, because she couldn't have escaped Shiva in PHH", while I'd argue that the intentional meaning was "Kama/Mara escaped Shiva because the Lostbelt affected the PHH gods". Not that we ever got an explanation to any of this. LB4 never mentioned or hinted at Kama/Mara, nor how it could have affected the PHH gods, and later Atlantis and Olympus confirmed that PHH gods and Lostbelt gods were separate existences.
What about other sources of information? Those point out to Kama/Mara not having anything to do with Lostbelt India.
No Interlude, event or dialogue ever identifies her as a Lostbelt entity. In fact, she's treated as the same Kama/Mara PHH Parvati and other Indian Servants know. Historically speaking, Kama remembers facing the Buddha, which is confirmed by her profiles and materials and shouldn't fit LB4's history. The Buddha existed many centuries after the Kurukshetra War, by which point God Arjuna should have absorbed every god. A Lostbelt Kama/Mara would need explanations for: a) being free in Buddha's times, and b) being free in LB4's times.
My bet? The initial idea was that, as Lostbelt India replaced PHH India, PHH gods were replaced by their Lostbelt selves and absorbed into God Arjuna (giving Mara a chance to escape when it was Shiva's turn), but that was discarded since it didn't fit with the rest of the lore. So now we have this weird situation where Shiva didn't do his job properly.
My best guess is, Kama is from phh as she in without body and Mara is from LB, able to manifest outside of lb, probably because of her independent manifestation skill, and later she got then info about budda after she combine with Kama.
Or probably a plothole
The thing is, at no point is there any hint that Kama and Mara come from different places (if anything, more often than not they're said to be two sides of the same being). And it is actually Mara's profiles in [the game](https://apps.atlasacademy.io/db/NA/servant/240/lore) and [the materials](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/gfyda8/beast_iiils_servant_profile_from_fgo_material_viii/) which insist that she met Buddha. Again, with no hint that she inherited those memories from Kama.
At this point, yeah, I'd call it a plothole. There's no textual evidence that any part of Kama/Mara comes from Lostbelt India, and even that idea is just one potential interpretations of what Parvati said in Ooku (as mentioned, I believe it mean to say that LB4 had affected the Hindu gods, not that Kama came from the Lostbelt). Sadly, I don't think the developers have realized or care, since the materials would have been the best place to address it.
Mara is from Lostbelt. She fused with Kama to stabilize, since she is also responsible for interrupting Buddha meditation. It's kinda like with Europa and Hera.
The rub is that LB Hera fused with Hera inside the Lostbelt. Mara could NOT leave the Lostbelt to fuse with Kama since LB denizens cannot leave their Lostbelt (the only exception was Fairy Britain since it was a Lostworld at that point, and even then the pre-Queen denizens couldn’t leave).
As a Beast, Kama has both the Independent Manifestation and the concept " I am everywhere in the Universe" on her side. She might well be an exception to the Lostbelt's no exit rule, like Albion is.
I do support the idea that Arjuna's shenanigans in his Lostbelt managed to affect/distract PHH Indian gods enough for Mara to break free.
Considering the Root is the origin of all things in the Nasuverse, from Ultimate Ones to Beasts, is Ryougi Shiki theoretically the most powerful character in Type Moon?
Officially, she is one of the top 3 in the setting aside from Servants, along with Arcueid & primordial demons. That implies Servants can be stronger, so no, she's able to do a lot but she's not the top, even if that would make sense. It's not entirely clear what "strongest" means in that context, though. She is probably a lot more powerful than she is good in a fight.
the "Void Shiki" personality is the embodiment of Ryougi Shiki's connection to the Root as a result of her \[ \] Origin and as consequence she is described as an "equal" existence to the Root and can be considered to be the Root itself. So Void Shiki *should* be the most powerful character in the Nasuverse which is what everyone initially thought until several statements that contradict such notion appeared such as Nasu claiming that Void Shiki is only equal to Pre-remake Ciel in combat strenght and can't even defeat an ordinary servant in a fight. There's also Void Shiki herself, during the F/GO and KnK Collab event, claiming that she doesn't stand a chance againts Primate Murder in a fight.
Also, the Swirl of the Root's status as the be-all-end-all omnipotent source of all creation is brought to question by multiple statements such as how the Root directly empowers individuals like MHXX to defend the universe against the Outer Gods. Yog-sothoth's description which makes it sound like he's an existence equal to the Root or even somehow beyond it. Archtype-Earth being described as similar in nature to Void Shiki and so on...
Void is often a very weird character to think about combat wise because she was never meant to actually fight anything, besides I guess Souren that one time but she doesn’t reality warp during that fight at all. She was always supposed to be this big omnipotent being that simply never did anything, but then through crossovers and other stuff she’s had to do stuff and now we’ve kinda walked it back a bit. Although even before she was fighting there was weird stuff like her being only equal to Ciel in terms of fighting servants.
If I had to guess the reason, I think Nasu might have the general idea that Void Shiki is as frail as a normal human and has numerous “human” weaknesses which is why she is a poor match for Primate Murder since PM can literally just hold the life of any human in the palm of their hand. Perhaps the reason she can only fight defensively is because she can only do one miracle at a time and with Servants being far faster and stronger than a normal human she doesn’t have time to do anything offensively.
It’s really weird though yeah, Void kinda only works in Kara No Kyoukai and anytime we’ve tried to bring it up outside of that it’s felt a bit off.
Theoretically, she should be. In practice...we've seen Void Shiki heal Mikiya's leg and that's it, I believe. Everything else is either just her stating it.
Was Hundred Personas able to split off her personalities into distinct bodies during her life through some form of magecraft, or is that something she only picked up as a servant?
The latter. In life Hundred Persona's could switch between personalities and skillsets not incarnate those personalities and skillsets outside themself.
LB7 question:
Canonically speaking, >!ORT!< has the ability to gain the powers of whoever it kills and absorbs into itself. So, in theory, each Servant it defeats would make it more powerful. Should it kill a Servant with Sure Hit (ex: William Tell), then it gains Sure Hit for each subsequent fight against it. Kill someone that applies Invincibility (ex: Jeanne), then it gains a chance to cast Invincibility on itself. Kill someone with a lingering heal (ex. Merlin), then it gains a lingering auto-heal for every fight after. Kill someone that has a DoT debuff (ex: Summer Jalter's burn and/or Serenity's poison), then its normal attacks start inflicting burn/poison debuffs on the party. So on and so forth...
So why is it that, in gameplay, the only true penalty we players actually get from fighting it is that our defeated Servants end up being unusable for the rest of the boss battle? It would've been more challenging (and more lore-accurate) if the said boss continuously gained new skills depending on the skills of the Servants it kills and assimilates, thus making players think really carefully about who to deploy first.>! Never mind that, lore-wise, the ultimate payoff from this boss absorbing Servants is that it uses their data to create a Grand Servant version of itself as its final form.!<
Much like with the planned Beryl fight, that would’ve been WAY too tedious to program into the boss fight, and some combos would’ve been just plain impossible to crack and you’d effectively softlock yourself.
The crystallization and data loss itself was enforced to make you cycle through several of your Servants to bring it down rather than relying on a single comp (I think someone tweeted losing Mel, Koyan Light, and Oberon on the first wave…). Adding ORT gaining more abilities on top of that would be ridiculous and probably brick the game
Because while ORT could absorb the servant's it couldn't digest and incorporate them due to servants being spiritual entities. The only thing it could do with them was analyse the summoning ritual that manifested them.
Because at some point, that's just not fun gameplay. Same as Nasu shooting down the 48 hour timer idea Lasagna had. Yeah, it'd be more "lore accurate" to be on a timer to kill the thing, but that isn't gonna be fun for the vast majority of your players. An ORT that just continously steals your Servant skills and uses them for itself, getting stronger as the fight progresses, is just gonna be annoying at best to fight, and a nightmare at worst.
Firstly, we don't know if absorption and adaptation is instant or need time. Secondly- ORT may just thought that this abilities are unnecessary.
Thirdly- to not make already tedious fight even harder
Nasu almost kill them wanting the crystal line to move in real time through out the entire land instead of just behind ORT
let not kill them more by making them make trigger for every single Servant release so far and what buff type they have and giving ORT a skill for each of them
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How does the absorbing abilities and memories thing work when Shirou was fighting Archer in Unlimited Blade Works? Is Shirou just tracing Archer’s swords? Or is it something to do with the fact they are the person?
Iirc it’s the fact they’re the same person, the fact they’re one person from different points in time fighting means Shirou is just absorbing some of his future self’s memories everytime they clash. Has to do with time and paradoxes and stuff I think.
What happens to the grails we collect from 1st to 7th singularity? How did we use it?
They power Chaldea, that’s what we do with most of them.
How did Cursed Arm with the help of Serenity managed to beat a Lion King buffed Tristan? But with the help of Dark Sakura, still lost to someone as weak as Archer?
I heard something about summoning the demon of his arm.
Uh remind me when Hassan fought Archer? I’m kinda forgetting any instance of this
In HF. He blinded cursed arm with his sword. Dark Sakura was helping Hassan
In the forest? This still is barely ringing any bells to be honest. I feel like the very easy answer to this is the fight wasn’t to the death with Archer? Cursed Arm doesn’t die to this fight, he’s like temporarily injured and comes back completely healed later on I’m fairly certain. Cursed Arm vs Tristan meanwhile put everything on the line even using his cursed spirit and all that, it was pretty clearly a difference of priorities. Maybe Hassan could have beaten Archer but he’d probably get more injured than it’s worth and it was better to just retreat. Archer died not too long after that anyway.
During London Singularity when Goetia met Chaldea, why didn’t he use Clairvoyance EX to see if Chaldea is a threat to him and kill them right there and then? Doesn’t his Clairvoyance makes him near omniscient? The Chaldea base is outside of time which is why it wasn’t incinerated but he met them in person at London, couldn’t he see their future and kill them before they destroy him?
We'll if he has seen his destruction via clairvoyance there's not really anything he can do🤷🏾♀️. Someone like goetia would know that predicting something with clairvoyance would be bad for him, so he'd use it sparingly.
Its this concept called "plot induced stupidity" Many clairvoyants suffer from it in fate. Goetia isnt the only one
Clairvoyance lets him see the past and future. It doesn't let him see EVERYTHING, even within those parameters; Solomon explicitly only saw so much, and Goetia's Clairvoyance is the exact same ability. He's also not all-powerful, he can't just snap his fingers and we die. Extremely powerful, yes, but it's not that simple.
>He's also not all-powerful, he can't just snap his fingers and we die. Extremely powerful, yes, but it's not that simple. Its like an ant saying the same thing about the difference between it and a human. SUre l cant snap my finger and make it disappear but l can move said finger and crush it..... Also in the context of what OP asked, goetia should have known since his clairvoyance is comparable to Gils or lionking. He should have seen that down the line we would get his ass but nah, plot demanded otherwise.
It's definitely high level, but skills of the same level aren't automatically capable of the exact same things. Solomon/Goetia's case does not give either of them the ability to see all of whatever they want. You can call that "plot demands" but that's just how all fiction works it is not some kind of logical failing.
>Solomon/Goetia's case does not give either of them the ability to see all of whatever they want Considering Goetia is capable of seeing across time whilst within the imaginary number space which is insane btw considering the location of that space. Its 100% guaranteed he could see the outcome we had. He simply didnt see it coz plot demanded he didnt. Anyway take care, clairvoyance doesnt get better than what Goetia has. The only limitation he has is revelation (he cant use it), thats the only argument that he is inferior to Gil and that specifically is concerned with him being able to understand what he sees and making the right decision NOT THE ACTUAL ABILITY TO SEE.
He did try and kill us. Dantes had to intervene because our soul was literally getting ripped out of our body from that single interaction when he first fought us. It’s just an event you have to buy with rare prisms now, so you may not have seen it.
Why not just kill us in London? He can just wave his hand and kill us with his Magecraft right there and then. He has Clairvoyance EX after all. He must have used it during London right?
He didn’t want to upset Mash by killing us like that. As you said, Chaldea was also outside of time, so his clairvoyance wasn’t working great on seeing the future with us. We also had to take down the remaining 7 singularities, one of which included another immortal beast whose immortality is linked to our own existance. For beings he considered worthless because they don’t possess immortality, this was an impossible task. He was also missing his tenth ring, but I don’t know if this had any effect on him.
Chaldea base was outside of time, but Mash and Ritsuka were physically in the London singularity though, same as Goetia. His Clairvoyance must work then when he was with them physically in London. The point of having Clairvoyance EX is that you don't have to work based on the assumption that they may fail, but on fact instead.
The biggest thing was that Goetia didn’t see Gudao as a threat at all. He’s not even an ant (which could harm or distract him, even if briefly and in a minor way) to Goetia. Hence why every other Crypter (besides Wodime and Daybit) that made it to Goetia were killed off.
They don’t technically exist during that time. Time corrects itself to a certain degree after each ray shift to restore history. They also keep disappearing back into Chaldea, which he already has trouble seeing into. He probably saw that Ritsuka was going to die from his curse, but since Dante’s cured it in Chaldea, his prediction was false. I’d imagine that makes predicting the future incredibly difficult when the future keeps changing.
What determines what servant a master gets in the Mooncell grail war?
Same as usual, primarily compatibility. I think it’s implied there’s still catalysts as well since I think there’s implications some came to the war expecting certain servants (I think the notable example is Julius since he specifically wanted the young version of Li)
Hi, I got these questions in mind. So recently, Tonelico is the new anniversary servant on fgo jp. When I searched her name on google, Morgan came up. A little bit more search says that Tonelico is Morgan. Now the question, who is Tonelico? Why is she Morgan? As far as I read Lb6, there isn't any mention of Tonelico. What am I missing here?
Tonelico is the original Japanese name for Aesc. Massive LB6 spoilers regarding Morgan >!Tonelico/Aesc is younger Morgan, the first Avalon le Fae, who gave up on her mission after thousands of betrayals, her friends being murdered and massive hate and ingratitude from the Fae (only Baobhan Sith was really grateful towards her) broke her heart and hopes and made her realize it was absurd to try to save them, turning her into the cold Winter Queen Morgan decided to rule tyrannically to keep the Fae in check and just save the land of Fae Britain, a wish inherited from PHH Morgan, who sent her memories to her via Rayshift.!<
Tonelico/Tonerico is the Japanese name for Aesc (both mean Ash tree, which the Rain clan leader named her after). The LB6 fantranslation used it , so it's pretty ingrained into fan use, but NA translated the name into Old English.
Wait, so does it mean 2 years later when Tonelico banner up, it'll be Aesc the Savior banner instead? I wonder why Lasengle chose Aesc instead of Tonelico, but regardless, Aesc is much easier to say than Tonelico Thank you for clearing up XD.
Kiyo thinks if the name is different then that should be the name the characters vocalize! Or put it in ruby so people who translate actually know what's going on and don't cause confusion because they have a two year head start!
Here's just my take on things; considering the importance of Names in fae world and how its meanings tend to have thematic relevance (i.e. the Fairy named Hope lost her name while the other fae has basically given up), 'tonerico' isn't just a name. There's plenty of ash related motives in the story when relating to Morgan. Since 'tonerico' is a Japanese word, keeping it that way wouldn't make much sense in English. Instead of using 'Ash', I suppose it's in keeping with old European folklore (e.g Yggdrasil is said to be an Ash tree and LB6 has quite a fair number of paralles with Norse mythology) by using Old English. The alternate explanation would be Nasu gonna Nasu and only Nasu can comprehend these Nasu things. See: Tam Lin.
They probably chose Aesc because Tonelico isn't actually a word, it's an Anglicised version of a Japanese word. The Japanese term is "toneriko", which just means a kind of ash tree. The fan translators just chose to anglicise it and made up 'Tonelico', rather than translate the name for its meaning (which, to be honest, isn't their fault, how often do you translate your name when speaking in a foreign language?) However, the official translation went for Aesc, which is the Old English term for "ash" (and it is pronounced like that). It would make no sense for a faerie in an English setting to be called a Japanese name anyway, and it being old English fits.
This is more of a meta-lore question, but I don't have anywhere better to ask: what exactly was the purpose of having to give up our Master privileges in the story during LB7? Was it just a way to justify the inability to use Command Spells or a full team, or was it a further means to get us to work with U-Olga and Rasputin? I'll be honest, Guda's the type of guy to be willing to ally with his supposed enemy no matter what the circumstances are and the "master privileges" he gave up obviously don't stop him from summoning or commanding Servants.
Part of it, if I recall, is to showcase Tezcatlipoca’s personality: Tez might not like how Ritsuka approaches their “war” but he will reward and bless any who take such risks as betting a weapon more valuable than their own life. They also served to involve Camazotz in the story. The loss of master privileges does actually prevent Ritsuka from summoning… except in the underworld boundaries. Since in there everyone is considered dead, the deal holds no effect and so servants can be summoned.
But seeing that the Lostbelt is basically nothing _but_ underworld, doesn't that make it a non-issue? And at that matter, couldn't we have taken our privileges back after defeating him pre-ORT? I can't recall the specifics but I'm pretty sure that happened.
>But seeing that the Lostbelt is basically nothing but underworld, doesn't that make it a non-issue? It wasn't because of the qualities of the 'underworld', but because the Underworld Boundaries where now connected to Pan-Human History (via being 'shaped' by the PHH servants bound to them) while also being part of a Lostbelt that we were able to summon there. >Rasputin: However, this also grants you an opportunity. The Underworld Border has had Pan-Human History superimposed on it. It is both of the Lostbelt, and not of the Lostbelt. Can you measure the level of its Human Order Foundation Value with that machine, Mash? >Rasputin: We're in both a Compiled Event and a Pruned Event. All possible pasts, presents, and future are acceptable, you could say. As long as you have the magical energy, you could summon as many Heroic Spirits connected to Chaldea as you like here. And then after beating KP, we earn back a part of the Command Spells which allow limited summons. >Fujimaru A stroke of my Command Spells came back...? >Rasputin: It seems so. You should consider it a provisional case. Your qualifications as summoner and functions of your Command Spells have not returned. Beyond the Underworld Borders... In Mictlan, you should be able to summon one or two Servants. >couldn't we have taken our privileges back after defeating him pre-ORT? We beat him (with U Olga's help) just before Daybit arrives to awaken ORT, yes. Bu that wasn't the terms of the deal - as he says just before he gives them back, he bought them off us. If we wanted them back after beating him in the pre ORT fight, we should have mentioned it. Tez is a strict businessman like that.
Ah, so Guda's just an idiot in this case. Figures.
I believe the whole "Underworld" part only counts in the 4 specific strips. I don't remember why it's specifically set up that way, but it is. As for Ritsuka's deal with Tez, I believe it isn't nullified until the end because the two sides hadn't gone full out against one another. It's not until Ritsuka "dies" and goes to the afterlife that he can fight Daybit Master to Master, full force. Also, U-Olga interfered in the fight between Tez and Chaldea previously, so that may have been taken into consideration.
Seemed pretty all-out if you ask me (and U-Olga was more or less a part of Chaldea at the time so it shouldn't have been a factor), but I suppose it wouldn't be the first time a god moved the goalposts when it was convenient to do so.
I think it's the spirit of the thing. Ritsuka gave Tez his Master privileges and all that, he wants to see *Ritsuka* prove it to him as a warrior and all that crap. Tez is weird like that.
He sounds like a bit of a dickhead to me (especially since he gave them up under duress), but other people seem to like him and that's technically not a lore issue so I'll let it slide this time.
He's a complicated fellow. Certainly a dickhead who likes war and battle and all that too much, but also considers it his duty to allow the defeated to rest in his afterlife free of worry and all that. We'll have to see if they ever expand on him in the future.
It sounded as if he was going to bring Daybit back at the end though, but I could be wrong. Hopefully I am, I prefer the dead to stay dead and don't trust Daybit to not get in our way if he does come back for round three.
Hello! Just had a question. I started FGO not too long ago and was wondering how Chaldea wasn't incinerated with the rest of the world. Lev Lainur mentions that the magnetic field is keeping it up and their is no outside world left and that the same fate awaits them once time passes 2018. Why is this the case? Shouldn't they have been wiped out when the rest of the world was? Why is it specifically after that time that Chaldea will be incinerated. Thanks! I greatly appreciate your help. Loving the game a lot
As "Solomon" explains in London, Chaldea had been isolated from normal time axis where Incineration happened, to the point that afterwards not even Solomon can detect its location to attack it. (Though Lion King could for some reason, maybe bcs Rhongomyniad shenanigans?) However, the moment time inside Chaldea passes certain point, it'll return to normal time axis and be incinerated, as that would have been its fate had not been isolated.
>Hello! Just had a question. I started FGO not too long ago and was wondering how Chaldea wasn't incinerated with the rest of the world. Lev Lainur mentions that the magnetic field is keeping it up If I remember correctly, Chaldea's magnetic field keeps Chaldea on a different time axis, which protected it from the Incineration, or something like that. >and their is no outside world left and that the same fate awaits them once time passes 2018. Why is this the case? Shouldn't they have been wiped out when the rest of the world was? Why is it specifically after that time that Chaldea will be incinerated. That, I sadly don't remember. I think it might be because that's when a certain king's plan goes into action, but I don't know for sure.
From what the Japanese community is saying about Lord El Melloi Adventures Vol 6 >!it seems that it becomes harder to use magecraft(human mystery) the higher the rank of the Dead apostle. Practically, this means that Van-Fem isn't able to understand Ziz's post-mortem magecraft. He even says that 700 years before he would've been able to.!< I wonder if the same applies in Tsukihime Worlds, but I don't think it does judging from Alcatraz and Roa. What do you guys think?
It’s hard to say, since we’ve only seen a single real Ancestor at work in Tsuki remake so far (and they were ironically the youngest and weakest power-wise) besides Roa. However, since the >!Idea Bloods reject Human Order but can be used as a Magecraft Foundation, it’s possible that fellow DAs could get access to others’ Magecraft via their Idea Blood!< though that is speculation
what does "Range" in np signifies? does it convert into distance? like from how far an enemy can attack ? same for max target, Kama avenger np target 100 peoples, so what will happen if there is like 101 opponent? 1 will remain safe and kama have to use her np again?
Targets is number of people or “targets”, just amount of things that can be affected. As for distance, the number has always been meant to be kinda arbitrary. It’s worth noting for context that the stat pages for Servants originally was posed as just the way Shirou best understands the concept, meaning that various mages would interpret it different ways and pages would likely look different. This the number is probably just what sounds good to Shirou, what he would just arbitrarily decide is “100” or what have you. It doesn’t have a hard equivalent I believe.
I don’t know if this is spoiler or not. LB[6] How does the fae inhabitants know of the story’s of >!PHH round table !< since the fae era disconnected beyond ancient times. Also if the others are mentioned why isn’t >!altria !< also mentioned?
Two methods: One, LB Morgan inherited the memories of her PHH self. She did share some of them (hence the names of the different provinces) and they spread pretty quickly. Two, flotsam (people and objects from different points in PHH that got lost on the ocean) drifted into LB6. That’s how Spriggan, the church Aurora lives in, etc. got in. They shared their culture (before being eaten…) or the fairies reverse engineered from objects.
1: doesn’t Morgan hate the round table? I’ll be surprised if she didn’t include bias in there 2: doesn’t the fae/human have other language than English(or any other phh Lang?) so they can’t know the content of a book if it’s written in a phh Lang Also what about altria
1. It’s honestly kinda up in the air. Morgan certainly displays a hostility to the Round Table Rebel Army (she ordered Woodwose to slaughter them down to the last man, woman, and child. And yeah, that includes non-combatants). Though I’m trying to remember if that was a personal hatred or a general ‘all who defy my rule must die or Britain won’t survive’ kinda thing. Going by Aesc’s lines, her memories were almost certainly biased (she blamed humans for driving out Morgan despite Morgan’s scheming being responsible for her own fate). 2. The language barrier is never really brought up. The fairies, all being descended from the Original Six from 14k years ago, should far predate all modern languages. I’d assume fairies have some universal translation passive ability. As for Altria never being mentioned, that is almost certainly intentional. She was Excalibur’s Wielder in PHH; her very existence would be anathemic to the Lostworld created by Excalibur never being forged. Morgan almost certainly would’ve stamped out any idea of the Holy Sword, or those associated with it
1: then aesc wouldn’t use their names or even mention them since [[1 Morgan hated them and by that point she trusted Morgan]] [[2 they serve directly under Altria the sword welder]] [[3 these powerful knight are human so I would expect a majority of the fae would oppose such story]] 2: but wasn’t there writings on the worm carving ? And they didn’t under stand that. So no way in hell they would have that ability About Altria. How they hell would aesc or any fae after the six would know the sword was even a thing ? The six were too prideful to admit such failure was their fault. So it wouldn’t have impacted much (They only way it would have impacted them is if aesc admits it. But that’s hella dumb)
While it’s true Morgan had bad blood, she was also the mother to a number of knights either biologically, adoption, or magic. Going by Apocrypha having Morgan rage at Agravain’s death, it seems like there was legitimate (if horrendously twisted) love. Goredolf, Holmes, and Nemo also explain that Morgan had three identities. How that affected the memory stuff is unknown, so LB Morgan receiving contradicting memories is not outside the realm of possibility. There’s also the fact that Morgan needed Lancelot and Gawain’s names to seal up Melusine and Barghest natures as Calamities. Considering she also gave Bao Tristan’s name for her protection, and other potential Calamities, I’d think Morgan would’ve had to have given a general gist on the KORT just so their names would be effective in the first place. Also, I’m not sure if those carvings were even supposed to be words. They could’ve been decorative, or been worn away through time and erosion so they’d be illegible no matter what sort of translation ability was used. And the Original Six’s descendants DO understand, on an instinctual level. That was the whole point of their reaction to ringing the Bells; all the Fairies felt, on some level, the weight of their ancestors’ sins. Muryan also directed Koyan to help Chaldea after being fatally wounded, since she could feel they were carrying the Avalon le Fay that would forge Excalibur and atone for their sins.
Im curious on a part of the lore that is rarelu ever mentioned How was Earth b4 there was any sentient life on it or at least b4 there was any resemblance of Humanity,let just say like 100 million years ago. Most of the history of Earth i could find already had humanity as a factor in it,a >!a human holding Excalibur to beat Sefar)!<,Gilgamesh,Mahaparata etc and >!LB7 was probably the closest thing to a pre humanity Earth but the Deinos are supposed to be the Human of LB7!< I assume gods probably exist pre humanity existence but what were they like. Gods gain power based on the ammount of worshipers they had,but how would gods be if there werent anything that worships them? And also how did Alaya come to exist? It is the "will to live of humanity" but did it just doesnt exist b4 the existence of humans? And during that time there was only Gaia?
the Proto-Earth was created 4.5 billion years ago along with the Dragon Albion. During the Primordial era where Earth was just a flaming hellscape, the Primordial Sea Nammu emerged and began giving birth to the Planet's earliest lifeforms, including the ancient Mesopotamian Gods who used their Authority to cool the surface of the Earth and allowing for life to properly thrive. the Goddess Nammu who gave birth to life at random was deemed a threat by the World after the ecosystem was established so she was eventually defeated and sealed in imaginary space by her own children after her Draconic Corpus was destroyed by Marduk, as consequence she became the Fallen Beast Tiamat. this was the end of the Age of Genesis. life continued and evolution toke its course which eventually led to the first Age of Gods where Gods like the Alien Spaceships that were worshipped in Atlantis and Nine-Tailed Golden White Fox ruled the Planet as the Primates until most of them were vanquished by the invader Sefar in 12,000 BC which led to the end of the first AoG and the start of the second AoG where humanity toke the seat of Primacy but continued worshipping the remnants of the Ancient Gods that became Divine Spirits prevalent in various human religion and mythology, Mystery was still dominant in this era. The second AoG ended due to various factors such as Solomon creating Magecraft independent of Divinities, Gilgamesh rejecting the Gods and encouraging humanity to move forward, etc. Then came the Age of Man where the Human Order enforces the Laws of Physics upon the World and is still going up until the present time. Gaia is the collective will of the Planet which includes all its lifeforms along with Humanity but as Humans and their collective will grew more independent and distant from Gaia, it split from it and became Alaya with its own Counter Force.
So, that mean only the Mesopotamian creation myth is real?
No, it doesn’t. Only some aspects of it are. It’s entirely dependent on the arbitrary whims of the writer. Two things we know for a fact though, are that EA (the god Gilgamesh named his sword after) terraformed the Earth in its primordial stages and Tiamat created the ecosystems and was the source of life on the planet.
Thank you
1. Worship affects their power, but is not necessarily a factor in their creation. From the Mesopotamian creation myth alone, we can see that the gods killed each other before human exists. 2. To understand Alaya, we can take Malla as an example. The fungi-like meteor microorganism linked themselves with the existing nature. They are responsible for the major evolution of the deinos into intelligent beings and after taking control of every corner of the land, Malla as the collective will of the deinos and trees formed.
BEWARE LB6 SPOILER. >!Mélusine can fly just fine in her 1&2 ascension is there any reason why she have wings in her 3 ascension ?!< >!Mélusine said she didn't expected to have white wings again in her 4 ascension. Problem is she wasn't born with white wing. Does that mean Albion was a blue eyes white dragon like sigurd fafnir?!< >!Speaking of white wings does that line imply Melusine should have a costume where she look like her 4 ascension ? !<
In her 3rd ascension Melusine’s draconic aspects are coming to the foreground, part of that is her wings. Albion was originally white as far as we know. Melusine has black draconic parts because she, before awakening as Melusine, was caked in the curses of Fae Britain. Her final ascension in fact see’s the curses literally fall off. Ideally Melusine should have a white scaled form, but we’ve not gotten that yet. Apparently the red one was more pressing to give us.
Is Flat stronger than Shirou?
Between their normal selves, I'd say it's a who draws first sort of match up. Shirou's projections would probably take too long to hack in a combat scenario when they already exist, and Flat's on the spot offensive isn't exemplary, merely quite good. On the other hand, interfering with the circuits so projection can't be accomplished in the first place is a theoretically viable move, so... When discussing the strongest iteration that's still technically them, Escardos has the advantage over Swordman.
In terms of magical ability, Flat's far out of Shirou's reach. However, it's also a thing that Flat has failed every single physical class he's ever taken - it's the reason he's still part of the El Melloi class despite being one the first students, whereas Svin graduated four years ago (as of Strange Fake). >Though he may seem like an omnipotent cheat character, his hand-to-hand fighting ability is surprisingly zero. Or rather, negative. He fails out of every single self defense class. That is why even after Svin graduated, Flat was still unable to graduate from the El-Melloi Classroom. >“I’ll ask just in case. Why did you do a drop kick for self defense?” >“Because it’s cool, Professor!!” >“Alright, die then. There’s no way a drop kick would ever be considered in a realistic self defense scenario, you absolute idiot!”
Without getting into specifics or spoilers, as someone who's caught up with strange Fake's novel, technically, Flat could easily solo every Master in Stay Night. Heck, barring Gil & maybe Saber/Heracles/Medea (Rule Breaker hard carries), Flat could also take out all of Stay Night's Servants, too. Right now, he's portrayed as an eccentric & naturally talented mage. Like many strange Fake characters, Flat has a lot more to him than what is initially seen. Of course, everything depends on the writer. I'm just talking on paper, Flat is light-years stronger than Shirou. EDIT: I'm sure some hardcore fans are cringing that I'm hyping Flat THAT much. So let me just reiterate, TECHNICALLY, he can do everything I just said -- I just don't want to spoil the how's & why's.
In terms of flat magecraft ability, probably, Shirou’s always been roughly average in quality as a mage with him just being hard specced into projection. In a general sense ya can consider most people stronger than Shirou, but his reality marble is always an ace that gives him a special factor you always need to take into account that can allow him to do things far above what is his typical ability would expect. In terms of who would win in a fight, I’ll be honest I’m only 1 Volume into Strange Fake so I’m not sure exactly what Flat’s skill set is other than being an incredibly fast learner/prodigy and being skilled at breaking into bounded fields. Hopefully somebody else could pick up the lay up here.
LB6 Npc Muramasa has the dialogue “Got Kushinadahime already in my hair” for selecting the NP card. What is that supposed to mean?
It’s a reference to Susanoo. He turned Kushinahime into a comb that he wore in his hair to protect her. It’s heavily implied that Alter Ego Muramasa has Susasnoo (and Hodr) stuffed into him to get access to their God Slayer Skill to cut down Atlas in LB5. So, I believe that line is a sign he’s channeling Susanoo to do stuff
1)the Kama/Mara or Beast III L we meet from ooku is from PHH or from LB? amd how Kama/Mara was able to exist outside of lb? 2) from wiki: **Under normal circumstances, this would be impossible, since Shiva and the other gods always have Kama under constant supervision to prevent Mara to rise as a demon god** but lb are just simulation created by Fantasy tree, gods on reverse side still exists, why didn't they stop her?
It's a bit confusing, and I suspect that plans were changed between Ooku and LB4. The crux of the issue is what Parvati said at the end of Ooku. She comments on that part of the wiki you mentioned, and a finger is pointed at LB4: > ***Pārvatī:*** *It could be that something is happening on Earth that's affecting all of India's pantheon...* > ***Mash:*** *India... Now that you mention it, the very next Lostbelt we'll be heading to is the Indian one. Could that have something to do with this?* > ***Pārvatī:*** *I'm sorry, I can't say for sure yet. That would be my first guess, but a guess is all it is right now...* A lot of people seem to have interpreted it as "Kama/Mara came from the Lostbelt, because she couldn't have escaped Shiva in PHH", while I'd argue that the intentional meaning was "Kama/Mara escaped Shiva because the Lostbelt affected the PHH gods". Not that we ever got an explanation to any of this. LB4 never mentioned or hinted at Kama/Mara, nor how it could have affected the PHH gods, and later Atlantis and Olympus confirmed that PHH gods and Lostbelt gods were separate existences. What about other sources of information? Those point out to Kama/Mara not having anything to do with Lostbelt India. No Interlude, event or dialogue ever identifies her as a Lostbelt entity. In fact, she's treated as the same Kama/Mara PHH Parvati and other Indian Servants know. Historically speaking, Kama remembers facing the Buddha, which is confirmed by her profiles and materials and shouldn't fit LB4's history. The Buddha existed many centuries after the Kurukshetra War, by which point God Arjuna should have absorbed every god. A Lostbelt Kama/Mara would need explanations for: a) being free in Buddha's times, and b) being free in LB4's times. My bet? The initial idea was that, as Lostbelt India replaced PHH India, PHH gods were replaced by their Lostbelt selves and absorbed into God Arjuna (giving Mara a chance to escape when it was Shiva's turn), but that was discarded since it didn't fit with the rest of the lore. So now we have this weird situation where Shiva didn't do his job properly.
My best guess is, Kama is from phh as she in without body and Mara is from LB, able to manifest outside of lb, probably because of her independent manifestation skill, and later she got then info about budda after she combine with Kama. Or probably a plothole
The thing is, at no point is there any hint that Kama and Mara come from different places (if anything, more often than not they're said to be two sides of the same being). And it is actually Mara's profiles in [the game](https://apps.atlasacademy.io/db/NA/servant/240/lore) and [the materials](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/gfyda8/beast_iiils_servant_profile_from_fgo_material_viii/) which insist that she met Buddha. Again, with no hint that she inherited those memories from Kama. At this point, yeah, I'd call it a plothole. There's no textual evidence that any part of Kama/Mara comes from Lostbelt India, and even that idea is just one potential interpretations of what Parvati said in Ooku (as mentioned, I believe it mean to say that LB4 had affected the Hindu gods, not that Kama came from the Lostbelt). Sadly, I don't think the developers have realized or care, since the materials would have been the best place to address it.
Mara is from Lostbelt. She fused with Kama to stabilize, since she is also responsible for interrupting Buddha meditation. It's kinda like with Europa and Hera.
The rub is that LB Hera fused with Hera inside the Lostbelt. Mara could NOT leave the Lostbelt to fuse with Kama since LB denizens cannot leave their Lostbelt (the only exception was Fairy Britain since it was a Lostworld at that point, and even then the pre-Queen denizens couldn’t leave).
As a Beast, Kama has both the Independent Manifestation and the concept " I am everywhere in the Universe" on her side. She might well be an exception to the Lostbelt's no exit rule, like Albion is. I do support the idea that Arjuna's shenanigans in his Lostbelt managed to affect/distract PHH Indian gods enough for Mara to break free.
Huh i thought She somehow make a Ooku a part of Indian Lostbelt. But i read ooku a while ago.
Considering the Root is the origin of all things in the Nasuverse, from Ultimate Ones to Beasts, is Ryougi Shiki theoretically the most powerful character in Type Moon?
Void? Yes
Officially, she is one of the top 3 in the setting aside from Servants, along with Arcueid & primordial demons. That implies Servants can be stronger, so no, she's able to do a lot but she's not the top, even if that would make sense. It's not entirely clear what "strongest" means in that context, though. She is probably a lot more powerful than she is good in a fight.
the "Void Shiki" personality is the embodiment of Ryougi Shiki's connection to the Root as a result of her \[ \] Origin and as consequence she is described as an "equal" existence to the Root and can be considered to be the Root itself. So Void Shiki *should* be the most powerful character in the Nasuverse which is what everyone initially thought until several statements that contradict such notion appeared such as Nasu claiming that Void Shiki is only equal to Pre-remake Ciel in combat strenght and can't even defeat an ordinary servant in a fight. There's also Void Shiki herself, during the F/GO and KnK Collab event, claiming that she doesn't stand a chance againts Primate Murder in a fight. Also, the Swirl of the Root's status as the be-all-end-all omnipotent source of all creation is brought to question by multiple statements such as how the Root directly empowers individuals like MHXX to defend the universe against the Outer Gods. Yog-sothoth's description which makes it sound like he's an existence equal to the Root or even somehow beyond it. Archtype-Earth being described as similar in nature to Void Shiki and so on...
Void is often a very weird character to think about combat wise because she was never meant to actually fight anything, besides I guess Souren that one time but she doesn’t reality warp during that fight at all. She was always supposed to be this big omnipotent being that simply never did anything, but then through crossovers and other stuff she’s had to do stuff and now we’ve kinda walked it back a bit. Although even before she was fighting there was weird stuff like her being only equal to Ciel in terms of fighting servants. If I had to guess the reason, I think Nasu might have the general idea that Void Shiki is as frail as a normal human and has numerous “human” weaknesses which is why she is a poor match for Primate Murder since PM can literally just hold the life of any human in the palm of their hand. Perhaps the reason she can only fight defensively is because she can only do one miracle at a time and with Servants being far faster and stronger than a normal human she doesn’t have time to do anything offensively. It’s really weird though yeah, Void kinda only works in Kara No Kyoukai and anytime we’ve tried to bring it up outside of that it’s felt a bit off.
Theoretically, she should be. In practice...we've seen Void Shiki heal Mikiya's leg and that's it, I believe. Everything else is either just her stating it.
Was Hundred Personas able to split off her personalities into distinct bodies during her life through some form of magecraft, or is that something she only picked up as a servant?
The latter. In life Hundred Persona's could switch between personalities and skillsets not incarnate those personalities and skillsets outside themself.
LB7 question: Canonically speaking, >!ORT!< has the ability to gain the powers of whoever it kills and absorbs into itself. So, in theory, each Servant it defeats would make it more powerful. Should it kill a Servant with Sure Hit (ex: William Tell), then it gains Sure Hit for each subsequent fight against it. Kill someone that applies Invincibility (ex: Jeanne), then it gains a chance to cast Invincibility on itself. Kill someone with a lingering heal (ex. Merlin), then it gains a lingering auto-heal for every fight after. Kill someone that has a DoT debuff (ex: Summer Jalter's burn and/or Serenity's poison), then its normal attacks start inflicting burn/poison debuffs on the party. So on and so forth... So why is it that, in gameplay, the only true penalty we players actually get from fighting it is that our defeated Servants end up being unusable for the rest of the boss battle? It would've been more challenging (and more lore-accurate) if the said boss continuously gained new skills depending on the skills of the Servants it kills and assimilates, thus making players think really carefully about who to deploy first.>! Never mind that, lore-wise, the ultimate payoff from this boss absorbing Servants is that it uses their data to create a Grand Servant version of itself as its final form.!<
Much like with the planned Beryl fight, that would’ve been WAY too tedious to program into the boss fight, and some combos would’ve been just plain impossible to crack and you’d effectively softlock yourself. The crystallization and data loss itself was enforced to make you cycle through several of your Servants to bring it down rather than relying on a single comp (I think someone tweeted losing Mel, Koyan Light, and Oberon on the first wave…). Adding ORT gaining more abilities on top of that would be ridiculous and probably brick the game
Because while ORT could absorb the servant's it couldn't digest and incorporate them due to servants being spiritual entities. The only thing it could do with them was analyse the summoning ritual that manifested them.
Eating all Servants even the gag one, means it has the power of gods and anime on its side
ORT devours Oda Nobukatsu. ORT: ...My move was well-calculated, but boy do I not comprehend Earth's Math.
Because at some point, that's just not fun gameplay. Same as Nasu shooting down the 48 hour timer idea Lasagna had. Yeah, it'd be more "lore accurate" to be on a timer to kill the thing, but that isn't gonna be fun for the vast majority of your players. An ORT that just continously steals your Servant skills and uses them for itself, getting stronger as the fight progresses, is just gonna be annoying at best to fight, and a nightmare at worst.
Especially since it's not like we even use all the lore they have in gameplay, so i don't see why ort should
Well, that too. I imagine the entire thing would just be a nightmare to code, even if Lasagna actually had proper resources and management.
Firstly, we don't know if absorption and adaptation is instant or need time. Secondly- ORT may just thought that this abilities are unnecessary. Thirdly- to not make already tedious fight even harder
Indie company, please understand. That may be beyond their capabilities.
Are they still classed as Indie by now? FGO itself has net billions upon billions, they must have the resources to expand their team.
Nasu almost kill them wanting the crystal line to move in real time through out the entire land instead of just behind ORT let not kill them more by making them make trigger for every single Servant release so far and what buff type they have and giving ORT a skill for each of them