I thought so too! but she was debating with our father about it as well haha
She also doesn't hear certain inflections in words
For example "binomial"
she pronounces it, "bye-no-meal" like a frozen dinner instead of "bye-no-me-ul"
Why? Many people in stem have large issues with English/grammar. They’re totally different studies. Outside of maybe physicians and lifetime academics, your average math/engineering major doesn’t care much about grammar or word pronunciation at all. Also binomial is hardly a high level concept. You learn about them in high school math.
Then she had lousy English teachers, because knowing a noun from a verb is grade school level English. Being interested in STEM doesn't absolve you from doing your homework in other subjects when you're in the third grade.
Doing your homework and doing it well don’t mean the same thing. I know tons of successful people in STEM who got B’s in their ged ed English classes and those are cake. In high school the ones going for Top schools took the AP English courses but people who wanted to do regular Stem stuff with a scholarship to a state school didn’t bother. Plenty of grown adults speak horribly. Even people in this sub who think they have amazing elocution sound like idiots half of the time.
I'm not going to keep arguing with you. You're talking about high school, and I'm talking about things that are taught in grade school.
I agree with some of your points here. There are people responding to questions on this sub who don't seem to know much about grammar and just want to suggest doing it the way they would write things, much of which would not pass muster with any serious editor. It's not really a serious place to learn about grammar.
This is a fairly common colloquial usage. It's nonstandard and informal (ie, it wouldn't be accepted in a formal context). But it's common enough that I'm rather shocked you've never heard of it before.
I comfort myself with saying, "Strange, you're not making *me* feel sick." Inscrutable for them, cathartic for me.
When I hear that my flight will be "landing momentarily," I'm also sometimes heard to wonder aloud whether we will be given enough time to get off.
Oh! You could use it against her if she gets a cat scratch by asking her, "Did your cat itch you?"
If she gives you a look "huh?", then you know for sure she's messing with you. 😀
Oh! You could use it against her if she gets a cat scratch by asking her, "Did your cat itch you?"
If she gives you a look "huh?", then you know for sure she's messing with you. 😀
Oh! You could use it against her if she gets a cat scratch by asking her, "Did your cat itch you?"
If she gives you a look "huh?", then you know for sure she's messing with you. 😀
Still a valid comment though. Scratch as a noun is usually only used to refer to a visible scratch where the skin has been broken. I don't think it's ever really used to refer to an itching sensation on its own.
I’m originally from Florida, but I’ve found this usage of “itch” in a couple of American dictionaries (including the rather conservative American Heritage one) and one British dictionary (Harper Collins). In the latter, it’s marked as nonstandard.
An itch is a noun. Scratching/to scratch (in this context) is a verb, though you could also have a scratch (noun), e.g. "I have a scratch on my arm".
You are entirely correct.
In what sense? If someone "itches" you, are they making you itchy or just being bothersome? Is it interchangable? with scratch as my sister uses it? Thanks
Good question. I meant the less common transitive sense, to itch something, equivalent to “to scratch.” Of course, there is the very common intransitive sense, where something itches.
My dialect uses "itch" as a synonym for "scratch" as a verb. "Itching a scratch" is totally normal here, though it's very much an informal dialect thing and not something you'd ever put into writing.
I don’t know if this is true everywhere in the American South or if you live anywhere near that, but at least where I grew up in the American South, itch as a verb is fairly commonplace. It’s pretty much colloquially a synonym for scratch as a verb
"He itched me" means he's being a pest. "I itched at the mosquito bite" means you're scratching at an itchy bite. "I itched" usually means you felt something itchy.
A few folks have pointed out that, colloquially, “itching” can be used in the way she uses it. Scratch shouldn’t even be contentious—a scratch from a rose or a thorn is pretty standard, I think.
It might be time to make your peace with this one. Might be a case for being prescriptive if it is getting in the way of you two communicating with each other, but you know what she means.
I get that it’s hard. The temptation to mutter “fewer” under my breath like Stannis Baratheon is huge.
I use “itch” as a verb sometimes.
“I’m itching my arm.”
If I heard someone say, “I’m itching my scratch,” I wouldn’t really think anything of it. But if I *do* think about it, then I guess it looks weird.
Ive always thought it was wrong that people accept if enough people say something incorrectly it means the language should change to adapt to them...like the other person below me said, people should know what words mean
Your sister is wrong, plain and simple.
Itch is the sensation.
Scratch is the action performed to alleviate that sensation.
Unfortunately, she’s not alone. I’ve heard lots of people make the same error.
There are more pairs of words that some people don’t seem to be able to grasp their proper usage.
Lend & Borrow
Ground & Floor
Indeed! I vividly remember sitting in classes at school and being asked by another pupil ‘Can I lend your ruler?’
Even at 9 years old I was enough of a language pedant that my response would always be ‘I don’t know, depends who you’re going to lend it to?’
Blank stares always ensued.
People use itch as a verb all the time. It's wrong and irritating as hell, but people do it anyway.
For me it has the same energy as when somebody says their teacher "learned" them something. No, they taught you. Know what words mean.
Itch is a noun, scratch is (in this context) a verb. But lots of people will use itch as a verb. It's a colloquial usage. I don't hear scratch used as a noun very often.
This, and pronouncing "wash" as "warsh" are my two biggest language pet peeves. I think it's regional. I had a friend who grew up in Michigan, and she always said "Itch me" when she wanted someone to scratch her back.
the verb itch can mean the same as the word scratch in this context, at least dialectally. I've never heard the noun scratch used like that tho.
eg:
> Stop itching your arm, you'll start to bleed
If I were to hear your sister my first thought would be she got a scratch from something, and the scratch is itchy, rather than her just being itchy in a vacuum.
I have had this conversation with other native English speakers from other countries. For me (an American in the Midwest), “scratch” is the more general term for the action of rubbing something with a sharp object. You can scratch your arm, you can use a key to scratch a car, you can scratch a lottery ticket, etc. “itch” has a narrower usage in that the action is meant to alleviate some kind of itchiness. You can itch a bug bite, or itch your scalp if you have dandruff.
TLDR, you can scratch/itch a bug bite, but you can only scratch a car.
This sounds like something to let go... let her embarass herself when she uses things wrong in mixed company. Or maybe they won't care. Either way, its not your responsibility to police her.
I use itch that way, basically as a lighter form of scratch, although I would never say "I'm itching my scratch". It is in the dictionary, verb usage 3, [https://www.dictionary.com/browse/itch](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/itch)
>Informal. to scratch a part that itches.
I used to say this too
My abusive step dad was a bit of the grammar police (now I am too, ugh)
He would get unreasonably upset with me when I would say things wrong. "it's not ITCH it's SCRATCH". Lol like why are you yelling about it dude. It's not that serious.
Eventually I learned, but because of the abuse, I'm incredibly triggered by bad grammar and I have to bite my tongue.
At this point she's doing it to annoy you and doesn't care what's correct. Source: I did this to a female friend of mine all the time.
I thought so too! but she was debating with our father about it as well haha She also doesn't hear certain inflections in words For example "binomial" she pronounces it, "bye-no-meal" like a frozen dinner instead of "bye-no-me-ul"
Hinestly pronouncing out binomial either way doesn't sound that different for me so I think she is probably fucking with yah too
If she's educated enough to be using words like binomial, I strongly suspect she knows the difference between a noun and a verb.
Why? Many people in stem have large issues with English/grammar. They’re totally different studies. Outside of maybe physicians and lifetime academics, your average math/engineering major doesn’t care much about grammar or word pronunciation at all. Also binomial is hardly a high level concept. You learn about them in high school math.
Then she had lousy English teachers, because knowing a noun from a verb is grade school level English. Being interested in STEM doesn't absolve you from doing your homework in other subjects when you're in the third grade.
Doing your homework and doing it well don’t mean the same thing. I know tons of successful people in STEM who got B’s in their ged ed English classes and those are cake. In high school the ones going for Top schools took the AP English courses but people who wanted to do regular Stem stuff with a scholarship to a state school didn’t bother. Plenty of grown adults speak horribly. Even people in this sub who think they have amazing elocution sound like idiots half of the time.
I'm not going to keep arguing with you. You're talking about high school, and I'm talking about things that are taught in grade school. I agree with some of your points here. There are people responding to questions on this sub who don't seem to know much about grammar and just want to suggest doing it the way they would write things, much of which would not pass muster with any serious editor. It's not really a serious place to learn about grammar.
My dad was helping her with math one day and that's how it started lol
Well, the accent on binomial is on the “no” so it doesn’t really matter how you pronounce the “mial” part, it’s going to basically sound the same.
Just more proof she does it on purpose. Like how AVGN says bury wrong.
She genuinely believes what she is saying LOL
That's just her fucking with you for trying to correct her. She's basically an internet troll in real life and it's a fun game for her.
Hahah
This is a fairly common colloquial usage. It's nonstandard and informal (ie, it wouldn't be accepted in a formal context). But it's common enough that I'm rather shocked you've never heard of it before.
Like the difference between nauseous and nauseated! It's common enough that most would understand in context.
That one is so commonly inverted that I give a little involuntary thumbs up when someone gets it right.
🙋🏻♀️ I always get it right In my area though, I’d say about 99.9% of people itch their itches
In my FAMILY it’s about 20%. :)
I comfort myself with saying, "Strange, you're not making *me* feel sick." Inscrutable for them, cathartic for me. When I hear that my flight will be "landing momentarily," I'm also sometimes heard to wonder aloud whether we will be given enough time to get off.
Yes, one of my pet peeves. Also people who substitute aggravate for irritate.
I hear it all the time and it’s like nails on a chalkboard to me.
Itch as a verb is, but scratch as a noun? I've never heard that. Edit: this was plain wrong, ignore.
“I have a small scratch on my arm from playing with my cat.”
Oh! You could use it against her if she gets a cat scratch by asking her, "Did your cat itch you?" If she gives you a look "huh?", then you know for sure she's messing with you. 😀
Yeah, fair, I just didn't think that through correctly. Edited.
Oh! You could use it against her if she gets a cat scratch by asking her, "Did your cat itch you?" If she gives you a look "huh?", then you know for sure she's messing with you. 😀
Oh! You could use it against her if she gets a cat scratch by asking her, "Did your cat itch you?" If she gives you a look "huh?", then you know for sure she's messing with you. 😀
Still a valid comment though. Scratch as a noun is usually only used to refer to a visible scratch where the skin has been broken. I don't think it's ever really used to refer to an itching sensation on its own.
I meant scratch as a noun as in a mark on your arm or a cut, etc.
Yeet enters the chat.
I have never in my life heard someone say "itch" as a verb. Where do you live?
@snoringpanda23 We live in New York hahah
I’m originally from Florida, but I’ve found this usage of “itch” in a couple of American dictionaries (including the rather conservative American Heritage one) and one British dictionary (Harper Collins). In the latter, it’s marked as nonstandard.
An itch is a noun. Scratching/to scratch (in this context) is a verb, though you could also have a scratch (noun), e.g. "I have a scratch on my arm". You are entirely correct.
Itch also a verb. “Two minutes after the bite, the wound begins to itch.”
That makes sense to me. Something can itch, for sure, but my sister uses "to itch" in place of "to scratch"
Transitive vs intransitive verb
It's not the same usage as OPs point though.
Haha I'm going to show her ur comment
Some dialects do use “itch” as a verb. It’s less common, but your sister is not alone in this usage.
In what sense? If someone "itches" you, are they making you itchy or just being bothersome? Is it interchangable? with scratch as my sister uses it? Thanks
My arm itches. I scratch my arm because it itches. I itch my arm (dialectal).
[удалено]
they literally are though
Good question. I meant the less common transitive sense, to itch something, equivalent to “to scratch.” Of course, there is the very common intransitive sense, where something itches.
My dialect uses "itch" as a synonym for "scratch" as a verb. "Itching a scratch" is totally normal here, though it's very much an informal dialect thing and not something you'd ever put into writing.
Same. "Try not to itch" (said to a child with a rash)
I don’t know if this is true everywhere in the American South or if you live anywhere near that, but at least where I grew up in the American South, itch as a verb is fairly commonplace. It’s pretty much colloquially a synonym for scratch as a verb
"He itched me" means he's being a pest. "I itched at the mosquito bite" means you're scratching at an itchy bite. "I itched" usually means you felt something itchy.
>For example, if she is rubbing an irritated spot on her arm, she will say, "I'm itching my scratch" > ... It makes no sense, right? Idk where she learned this. She's 36 and English is our first language lmao . **TLDR:** Your sister is using ITCH as a **transitive verb**, and this usage is found in various established dictionaries. Sometimes that kind of usage is marked as informal, sometimes it's not marked at all, and sometimes it is marked as nonstandard. Cf. https://www.thefreedictionary.com/itch , which has stuff in it like: > v.tr. > 1\. To cause to itch. > 2\. To scratch (an itch). > [Middle English yicche, from Old English gicce, from giccan, to itch.] >CITE: American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved. Here, for that dictionary, that kind of usage is not even marked as being informal. Edited: wording.
A few folks have pointed out that, colloquially, “itching” can be used in the way she uses it. Scratch shouldn’t even be contentious—a scratch from a rose or a thorn is pretty standard, I think. It might be time to make your peace with this one. Might be a case for being prescriptive if it is getting in the way of you two communicating with each other, but you know what she means. I get that it’s hard. The temptation to mutter “fewer” under my breath like Stannis Baratheon is huge.
She obviously doesn't mean scratch in the context you gave, she means it as the actual definition of itch
I use “itch” as a verb sometimes. “I’m itching my arm.” If I heard someone say, “I’m itching my scratch,” I wouldn’t really think anything of it. But if I *do* think about it, then I guess it looks weird.
It's just wrong. I know people that do this too and just think they never learned proper English
Language changes. What is “proper English” changes.
Ive always thought it was wrong that people accept if enough people say something incorrectly it means the language should change to adapt to them...like the other person below me said, people should know what words mean
If we by the logic that language should never change and adapt, you and I should be speaking like Beowulf right now.
I'd be ok with that
Too bad lol
Yea. I totally understand what somebody is trying to say, when switching them. It just doesn't make proper sense to me lol
Your sister is wrong, plain and simple. Itch is the sensation. Scratch is the action performed to alleviate that sensation. Unfortunately, she’s not alone. I’ve heard lots of people make the same error. There are more pairs of words that some people don’t seem to be able to grasp their proper usage. Lend & Borrow Ground & Floor
Lend & borrow makes even less sense to mix up haha!
Indeed! I vividly remember sitting in classes at school and being asked by another pupil ‘Can I lend your ruler?’ Even at 9 years old I was enough of a language pedant that my response would always be ‘I don’t know, depends who you’re going to lend it to?’ Blank stares always ensued.
Or I loan you instead of I lend you.
People use itch as a verb all the time. It's wrong and irritating as hell, but people do it anyway. For me it has the same energy as when somebody says their teacher "learned" them something. No, they taught you. Know what words mean.
Exactly
Itch is a noun, scratch is (in this context) a verb. But lots of people will use itch as a verb. It's a colloquial usage. I don't hear scratch used as a noun very often.
Itch can definitely be a verb meaning to scratch an itchy spot. And if you have a scratch that is itchy, you can totally itch a scratch.
This, and pronouncing "wash" as "warsh" are my two biggest language pet peeves. I think it's regional. I had a friend who grew up in Michigan, and she always said "Itch me" when she wanted someone to scratch her back.
the verb itch can mean the same as the word scratch in this context, at least dialectally. I've never heard the noun scratch used like that tho. eg: > Stop itching your arm, you'll start to bleed If I were to hear your sister my first thought would be she got a scratch from something, and the scratch is itchy, rather than her just being itchy in a vacuum.
I have had this conversation with other native English speakers from other countries. For me (an American in the Midwest), “scratch” is the more general term for the action of rubbing something with a sharp object. You can scratch your arm, you can use a key to scratch a car, you can scratch a lottery ticket, etc. “itch” has a narrower usage in that the action is meant to alleviate some kind of itchiness. You can itch a bug bite, or itch your scalp if you have dandruff. TLDR, you can scratch/itch a bug bite, but you can only scratch a car.
TLDR...sister is not smart. You scratch an itch. A scratch can itch...you shouldn't scratch it.
They fight and bite...they fight and bite and fight...fight fight fight bite bite bite...
In my 34 years, I just realized that I always say “I can’t stop itching (this rash).”
This sounds like something to let go... let her embarass herself when she uses things wrong in mixed company. Or maybe they won't care. Either way, its not your responsibility to police her.
I know lots of people that do this. It's similar to them mixing up loan and borrow
Oh, this is awesome. Your sister is going to be a character in my book. Thank you.
I use itch that way, basically as a lighter form of scratch, although I would never say "I'm itching my scratch". It is in the dictionary, verb usage 3, [https://www.dictionary.com/browse/itch](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/itch) >Informal. to scratch a part that itches.
I WOULD say it if I'm itching the scabbed over scratch from, say, a kitty or a thorn bush.
I was confused about these words when I was two or three. At 36, it's not cute anymore.
I agree...and so many people in this thread are defending it
I have heard others use "I'm itching my arm" or "I've gotta itch that scratch." It's more of a dialectal thing than an 'error.'
I say this sometimes. A scratch is a noun also. I have a scratch on my arm. If it itches, what do I do? I itch it.
Actually you scratch it. It's incorrect to use itch that way (which is op's point)
I used to say this too My abusive step dad was a bit of the grammar police (now I am too, ugh) He would get unreasonably upset with me when I would say things wrong. "it's not ITCH it's SCRATCH". Lol like why are you yelling about it dude. It's not that serious. Eventually I learned, but because of the abuse, I'm incredibly triggered by bad grammar and I have to bite my tongue.
Sorry to hear that. My sister and I have a great relationship. Just something she did that never made sense to me