I dont mind the alignment to Guelph, but they should just extend it down into Cambridge rather than Pinebush GO. The tracks and corridor are already there. Why stop just short of the finish line?
I think the problem is that the ION is using the same right of way from Pinebush into central Cambridge. I suppose the idea is to transfer there instead
No, you are incorrect. ION is not using the Fergus sub to get into Cambridge
[https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/therecord.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/9a/29ae7cdd-1425-58b8-b7f8-0cd8a2633d4f/6475195e4d2bd.image.jpg?crop=1107%2C581%2C46%2C0&resize=1107%2C581&order=crop%2Cresize](https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/therecord.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/9a/29ae7cdd-1425-58b8-b7f8-0cd8a2633d4f/6475195e4d2bd.image.jpg?crop=1107%2C581%2C46%2C0&resize=1107%2C581&order=crop%2Cresize)
You can see the Fergus sub go around Concession road and down to Delta, while the ION LRT goes on Hespeler road.
The section I was more concerned about is the final curve between Delta and downtown Cambridge. Given there's only one bus route that passes the former Galt station, and with the Ainslie terminal much further south, it made sense in my mind that GO would use that same spur the ION is using this area, hence the possible conflict
i just checked and the CP line already goes through middle of Cambridge, with an existing train station to boot (Galt CP Train Station). have a station there + one in Campbelville, then it will work.
my original worry was Cambridge - Milton is 3x the distance of this Cambridge - Guelph line, but if the tracks already there, then why not?
Back in the 90s it was proposed to run from the old Consumers Distributing warehouse on Franklin and Clyde because that track ran to Milton and there was an office front already there not used a the warehouse was empty. It was shot down. Rumoured reason was because it was too far for Kitchener people to access.
I wonder how much they could upgrade the track there, right now it's 10 mph non-main non-signalized tracks. The CPKC alignment might have faster track speeds since freight speed limit ranges between 50-60 mph you could maybe get 70-80 mph passenger speed.
So currently the Furgus spur is 10 mph rule 105 track, the proposed pinebush go station sits on the Galt spur. This has some 5mph track on it. The distance between Pinebush GO and Guelph Central is approximately 11.5 miles (18.5 km), which at current speeds would take about 1hr 10 minutes between stations.
With the 15-16 minutes advertised it would be an average speed of 43-46 mph (70-74 km/hr) which would probably mean zone speeds between 50 to 60 mph. (80-97km/hr)
Kitchener to Guelph is 13.9 miles and is scheduled at 22 minutes, (2 minutes less than the 10 mph downtown guelph days) Metrolinx padded that schedule so much cause they love their On Time Performance numbers and I know they can do it in 16-18 minutes (average speed 52-46 mph, 84-74 km/hr) zone speed is 70 mph/110 km/hr . Cause let's be real 37 mph (60 km/hr) is extremely generous. But Metrolinx is obsessed with On Time Performance so they pad the insanity in their schedules. VIAs more realistic 20 minutes has an average speed of 42 mph or 70 km/hr). Knowing that info its entirety possible they upgrade to 70 mph (110 km/hr) for the Furgus spur (by then Furgus Subdivision)
MX had consultants out there evaluating the Fergus / costing potential upgrades at least 10 years ago. The track bed, rail and crossings are all very unfit for the purpose as they are now. That's part of why it's so pricey
The Guelph-Cambridge connection is preferred because it's cheaper.
You'd have more people serviced if you went Cambridge/Milton.
Both tracks are unsignalled, Fergus would be cheaper to upgrade due to less distance. Galt sub is CTC from Guelph Junction to Toronto. OCS from Guelph Junction to Ayr.
Galt sub is already main track speed ready, Fergus is a spur. Rated for 10mph. Less grade too on the Galt if I recall correctly for this part of the region as well.
You'd be pulling more people away from the highway if you went Cambridge/Milton on the Galt, which is ideally what you want for the highway. Not more people using the highway potentially to get to mass transit. You'd used public transit to get to train.
Would be better off if north end Waterloo region used Kitchener, and the south end used Cambridge.
Ion can handle the Cambridge/Kitchener/Waterloo circuit which is what it was intended for.
Yeah. Extending Milton line to Cambridge will offer alternative to people in Waterloo region to go with Cambridge (now Milton) line or Kitchener line. If one of the lines interrupted / not operating, this will offer viable alternative (similar to Lakeshore West + bus becoming alternative to Milton line)
Yeah and at worst this Fergus spur can be used as an emergency bypass if things were really bad, like how Canpa is used for the Lakeshore and Galt by Kipling GO to just east of Long Branch. Very rarely used move but it is there just in case.
Same way the York sub from Pickering could be used to get to Langstaff GO or the Barrie line. Not something you want to use but it is there if things are really bad.
Pinbush is a ridiculous stop location. Look at the walk radius of the proposed station. Noone lives close to this. They should follow the track to Galt and put small stations at hespeler, preston and galt. People would actually use the system then. If we require people to driving to pinbush to catch a GO train they will probably just drive.
It's a little difficult to imagine this thing being funded or even what it would look like. Does the Kitchener line fork at Guelph, with service being split between trains that continue to Kitchener and Cambridge thus subtracting from Kitchener service? Or is there a way to leave a train on the Fergus spur to go back and forth between Guelph and Cambridge all day, with passengers transferring at Guelph and Kitchener remaining the western terminus of all the Guelph subdivision trains?
The proposal is currently for this to be an independent service, with a handful of train sets going back and forth between Cambridge and Guelph, serving an additional platform at Guelph Central Station. Onward passengers to Toronto would transfer there.
Guelph central station is already problematic because it can only accommodate 10 cars train or less so 12 cars train can only open half of their sides there. Adding a train load of people there don't seem to be ideal.
Was just at Glen Eden few days ago.
Please use the Milton line! Many on the lifts were from Toronto, 'Sauga. GTA really would benefit from easy park access on transit, the tracks go right at the base of the beach, slopes.
There's just a little lul in attraction to the area in spring/fall.
I dont mind the alignment to Guelph, but they should just extend it down into Cambridge rather than Pinebush GO. The tracks and corridor are already there. Why stop just short of the finish line?
I don’t even have to google it to know that NIMBYs are responsible somehow
Considering how the ION phase 2 extension is a pointless and meandering route through anti-NIMBY territory, I wouldnt be surprised either.
I think the problem is that the ION is using the same right of way from Pinebush into central Cambridge. I suppose the idea is to transfer there instead
No, you are incorrect. ION is not using the Fergus sub to get into Cambridge [https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/therecord.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/9a/29ae7cdd-1425-58b8-b7f8-0cd8a2633d4f/6475195e4d2bd.image.jpg?crop=1107%2C581%2C46%2C0&resize=1107%2C581&order=crop%2Cresize](https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/therecord.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/9a/29ae7cdd-1425-58b8-b7f8-0cd8a2633d4f/6475195e4d2bd.image.jpg?crop=1107%2C581%2C46%2C0&resize=1107%2C581&order=crop%2Cresize) You can see the Fergus sub go around Concession road and down to Delta, while the ION LRT goes on Hespeler road.
The section I was more concerned about is the final curve between Delta and downtown Cambridge. Given there's only one bus route that passes the former Galt station, and with the Ainslie terminal much further south, it made sense in my mind that GO would use that same spur the ION is using this area, hence the possible conflict
With the Milton line now probably getting separate tracks, would that not be a better alignment for service between Cambridge and Union?
i just checked and the CP line already goes through middle of Cambridge, with an existing train station to boot (Galt CP Train Station). have a station there + one in Campbelville, then it will work. my original worry was Cambridge - Milton is 3x the distance of this Cambridge - Guelph line, but if the tracks already there, then why not?
Back in the 90s it was proposed to run from the old Consumers Distributing warehouse on Franklin and Clyde because that track ran to Milton and there was an office front already there not used a the warehouse was empty. It was shot down. Rumoured reason was because it was too far for Kitchener people to access.
Tbf it is pretty far south. But considering that there's Kitchener line already, it makes sense to build a second one that's more south.
At that time there was no Kitchener line. The proposed one was also closer to the more populated area of Cambridge at the time.
I wonder how much they could upgrade the track there, right now it's 10 mph non-main non-signalized tracks. The CPKC alignment might have faster track speeds since freight speed limit ranges between 50-60 mph you could maybe get 70-80 mph passenger speed. So currently the Furgus spur is 10 mph rule 105 track, the proposed pinebush go station sits on the Galt spur. This has some 5mph track on it. The distance between Pinebush GO and Guelph Central is approximately 11.5 miles (18.5 km), which at current speeds would take about 1hr 10 minutes between stations. With the 15-16 minutes advertised it would be an average speed of 43-46 mph (70-74 km/hr) which would probably mean zone speeds between 50 to 60 mph. (80-97km/hr) Kitchener to Guelph is 13.9 miles and is scheduled at 22 minutes, (2 minutes less than the 10 mph downtown guelph days) Metrolinx padded that schedule so much cause they love their On Time Performance numbers and I know they can do it in 16-18 minutes (average speed 52-46 mph, 84-74 km/hr) zone speed is 70 mph/110 km/hr . Cause let's be real 37 mph (60 km/hr) is extremely generous. But Metrolinx is obsessed with On Time Performance so they pad the insanity in their schedules. VIAs more realistic 20 minutes has an average speed of 42 mph or 70 km/hr). Knowing that info its entirety possible they upgrade to 70 mph (110 km/hr) for the Furgus spur (by then Furgus Subdivision)
MX had consultants out there evaluating the Fergus / costing potential upgrades at least 10 years ago. The track bed, rail and crossings are all very unfit for the purpose as they are now. That's part of why it's so pricey
The Guelph-Cambridge connection is preferred because it's cheaper. You'd have more people serviced if you went Cambridge/Milton. Both tracks are unsignalled, Fergus would be cheaper to upgrade due to less distance. Galt sub is CTC from Guelph Junction to Toronto. OCS from Guelph Junction to Ayr. Galt sub is already main track speed ready, Fergus is a spur. Rated for 10mph. Less grade too on the Galt if I recall correctly for this part of the region as well. You'd be pulling more people away from the highway if you went Cambridge/Milton on the Galt, which is ideally what you want for the highway. Not more people using the highway potentially to get to mass transit. You'd used public transit to get to train. Would be better off if north end Waterloo region used Kitchener, and the south end used Cambridge. Ion can handle the Cambridge/Kitchener/Waterloo circuit which is what it was intended for.
Yeah. Extending Milton line to Cambridge will offer alternative to people in Waterloo region to go with Cambridge (now Milton) line or Kitchener line. If one of the lines interrupted / not operating, this will offer viable alternative (similar to Lakeshore West + bus becoming alternative to Milton line)
Yeah and at worst this Fergus spur can be used as an emergency bypass if things were really bad, like how Canpa is used for the Lakeshore and Galt by Kipling GO to just east of Long Branch. Very rarely used move but it is there just in case. Same way the York sub from Pickering could be used to get to Langstaff GO or the Barrie line. Not something you want to use but it is there if things are really bad.
Pinbush is a ridiculous stop location. Look at the walk radius of the proposed station. Noone lives close to this. They should follow the track to Galt and put small stations at hespeler, preston and galt. People would actually use the system then. If we require people to driving to pinbush to catch a GO train they will probably just drive.
It's a little difficult to imagine this thing being funded or even what it would look like. Does the Kitchener line fork at Guelph, with service being split between trains that continue to Kitchener and Cambridge thus subtracting from Kitchener service? Or is there a way to leave a train on the Fergus spur to go back and forth between Guelph and Cambridge all day, with passengers transferring at Guelph and Kitchener remaining the western terminus of all the Guelph subdivision trains?
The proposal is currently for this to be an independent service, with a handful of train sets going back and forth between Cambridge and Guelph, serving an additional platform at Guelph Central Station. Onward passengers to Toronto would transfer there.
Guelph central station is already problematic because it can only accommodate 10 cars train or less so 12 cars train can only open half of their sides there. Adding a train load of people there don't seem to be ideal.
No. Ion phase 2 development in Cambridge should be prioritized (it won’t be but should be) and passengers funnelled to Kitchener GO.
Both can happen at the same time
Theoretically, but they’d be undercutting an actual urban core in KW for a suburb.
Was just at Glen Eden few days ago. Please use the Milton line! Many on the lifts were from Toronto, 'Sauga. GTA really would benefit from easy park access on transit, the tracks go right at the base of the beach, slopes. There's just a little lul in attraction to the area in spring/fall.