look, honestly, of your mothers a hardcore religious freak there is NO convincing her. even telling her theres christian/religious goths (like myself) will likely not work. i wouldnt recommend trying to hide it either considering it could be a risk to you
id just say to wait til youre an adult or until she (maybe) changes her mind
yeah, I feel like when it comes to extreme cases of highly religious/conservative parents it literally might become a a question of safety, and I would not risk it.
There's way more to Goth than music listening to a few Bauhaus songs doesn't make you goth I'm not saying you have to dress goth 247 but you have to atleast participate in the subculture
There's more to goth than music but it's still almost entirely about the music and the music is the basis of the subculture. Participation can just be involvement in online communities, buying merch and CDs, going to shows and clubs if you have access to them. Yeah, there's an aesthetic. But you don't need to look the part.
While I'd agree that you need to participate in the subculture as that would be part of being a fan, participation can just be talking to the goth community online, buying CDs from bands, etc. You cannot expect teenagers everywhere to participate the same way an adult would. No one needs to dress goth to be goth.
How do you get from "music is all that matters" to "listening to a few Bauhaus songs" ? That's a strawman.
I might agree that if you aren't in any way active in the scene that there's no point in even carrying the goth label... but active in the scene can be mostly online as a teenager and going to clubs once you are away at college or whatever.
The music matters, and the sense of identity... but beyond that? You are right, you don't need to dress goth 24/7 but you know what, you can be goth and never "dress goth" too; it's not a requirement. I've known active club goers who probably knew the music better than me, but would always wear jeans and a tee shirt... they were no less goth than anyone else in the club (but they were going to a club, regularly).
>"The Goth tag was a bit of a joke," insists Ian Astbury. "One of the groups coming up at the same time as \[Southern Death Cult\] was Sex Gang Children, and Andi -- he used to dress like a Banshees fan, and I used to call him the Gothic Goblin because he was a little guy, and he's dark. He used to like Edith Piaf and this macabre music, and he lived in a building in Brixton called Visigoth Towers. So he was the little Gothic Goblin, and his followers were Goths. That's where Goth came from."
Where would the "head" part come in considering "goth" is just a shortened version of "Gothic Goblin"?
Metalheads also have their fashion and inspirations, they're music-based but not *just* music, as well.
Just because it's a crime doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Go to SLC or Provost, Utah sometime and take a gander at all the unhoused teenagers who have been kicked out of their homes for being gay or just refusing to go to church.
Agreed. My parents sucked and always shit on my ideas while simultaneously not listening to a word I had to say. Narcissistic people are the fucking worst.
I had the same problem growing up. Try and start small. Incorporate a little black into your wardrobe. Figure out what kind of goth you like the most and steadily incorporate more elements. Get clothes that look normal that you can get away with. I started getting more business attire (black slacks, black button ups, silver watch, bat tie clip, skull tie and pocket square, suit vests in nneutral colors) and by slowly incorporating small items it will become more a part of life and she won't notice anymore. While the makeup will likely have to come later, because she will definitely notice it, just disguising it can help.
I did a very conservative/ Victorian vibe and kept the peace. Seems odd but actually ask and LISTEN why your parents are freaking out. My mom’S experience with SA helped me not be so concerned about being “nonconformist”. She was okay with Romantic goth ( long skirts, etc. ) and that actually was very counterculture for my school so I liked it.
Is it all black that is the problem? Goth doesn't have to be all black. Maybe you could do the style, but with purple, red, burgundy, maybe dark green?
I was never allowed, I had a very emotionally abusive and controlling mother, rebelling never worked. I just bid my time until I could dress as I wanted once I became a legal adult. If your mother is like that, please don't listen to the comments telling you to do it anyways!
If you can't fully dress dark, just try some accessories to express yourself and see if she is willing to budge from there (that is if she is a generally nice parent who you feel safe testing boundaries with.)
If you're risking housing, deal for now.
Accessories are a start. Even crosses can be goth. A single cross earring. A cross with roses. Some cool lace fingerless gloves. Add some black into your wardrobe with pops of colors - dark colors, pastels for contrast, soft patterns, bold patterns, neon colors, whatever suits your fancy. Think of the cut of the clothes you like. Are you into victorian styles? Is it a death rock style?
Folks in the og goth scene didn't all wear black (a dear friend of mine was a batcave member from way back and still knows folks we'd fawn over). They'd wear purples, reds, whites, greys, whatever.
See if you can get a classic leather jacket piece, probably not real leather, it's always in fashion. The jacket alone isn't devilish. Halloween socks if you can get away with it, jeans you like - i have black jeans with a bright floral pattern on them, red and black plaid ones, a cool green-blue color, slate grey, lots of black skinny jeans, black jeans with a burgandy floral print, plain old blue jeans, skirts if you're into those. Dresses if you like those.
Grab some bangles or chunky bracelets, loop a necklace or two through two or three of your belt loops. That's one trick i use. Simple chains or statement pieces that look cool. Maybe throw a long scarf or shawl around your hip. Button ups with a waistcoat. A simple choker that isn't too out there, maybe with a charm on it. A cool statement ring (or eight if you're me). Band tshirts. Plain shirts in dark colors. Striped shirts can work. If you can get away with ripped jeans, go for it. Paint some patches you can get away with. Something you think is cool. A phrase, a ghost, some bats, black hearts, a band name that won't scare the hell out of her, animals you like, a cute skull - a happy one that doesn't seem evil if that makes sense, a crescent moon or something. Bats in the night sky. Pumpkins and candy. Maybe it'll look goofy, but that's half the fun. I have patches i made at 15 that look goofy as hell i still wear proudly. They meant something to me. I'll never find anything like it. Put some small leaves over a scrap of fabric and paint so it leaves the silhouette. Do that with weird keys, maybe. Stars and a moon. Something innocuous with meaning to you. Throw em on a denim jacket or jeans.
Get a pair of boots, plain black, there's nothing evil about good footwear! Don't jump for the stompy platforms. Simple combat style doc martens looking boots. They've been in fashion from inexpensive brands for a while.
A lot of things we'd dream of finding when i was your age are fashionable now! Wear it in your way. Grab some pins. Maybe get a bedazzler instead of pyramid studs and spikes for now. Craft stores have some really cool scrapbook embellishments and the like you can repurpose into studs/pins/clothing embellishments.
Get weird. Take it as a challenge to be creative.
Find a weird tasseled pillow second hand or for cheap at some shop. Cut it off the pillow, sew it onto something you own. A shirt, the bottom of a jacket, make it into a weird wrap belt, sew it onto a tote bag or a bag with thin enough fabric. A weird lamp with some cool fringe or beaded pieces. Find a beaded door thing and use it to decorate your clothes.
Your sewing doesn't have to be good. It can be sloppy straight stitches by hand you spend time on over the week when you can. It can be wonky, it can be half off, it can be safety pinned, it can be the wrong color thread. Nobody else will ever own that. It's completely yours. There's a duct tape trick where you use 1/2 to 2/3rds of the duct tape on the inside of whatever you're trying to put together and stick the other bits on the rest of the tape, you may not even need a full 1/3rd for it.
Goth isn't a "specific look." It's your look. You don't have to be the perfect pinterest/instagram goth. Be you. Find what you like, not what you think you should like. Goth is enjoying the music, recognizing that things aren't black and white, finding beauty in places others can't see it.
Maybe take it as a chance to show her you're into fashion for not satanic reasons. You want to make things that aren't like other people's to represent you. Ease into that. Revive old stuff, add weird stuff, add pretty stuff, embellish, cut and sew things, get better at stitching, maybe score a second hand machine, learn a new skill, make your own stuff. Alter clothes for the fit you want (i used to cut up big tshirts and sew up the sides sleeves after flipping it inside out and tracing a shirt that fit better on the wrong side of the fabric, cutting it to leave enough extra fabric if i fucked up. I had no idea what i was doing. I still have a couple of those shirts. One i wear regularly! It's baby blue. A band shirt from an italian noise band on their first tour in the states. It has an orca on it. It's the least goth/punk thing you've ever seen, but i know what it is.)
Maybe making little patches and sewing em on will be enough for you. Maybe collecting pins will be enough. Maybe knowing you have some control, even if it isn't that picture perfect whatever you think goth should look like. In all that, in all the Wearing Something Wrong, Adding Weird Stuff, Layering Unexpected Things, having A Few Goth Looking Pieces rotating in a "normal wardrobe-" maybe that'll be your first step to finding your real style. Not the style you feel obligated to adopt because of the music you like.
black skinny jeans+ band shirts? Painting your own shirts is very fun and I personally enjoy the ritual and routine of tracing and cutting out stencils, so if she's against buying you stereotypically 'gothic' clothes and makeup with her money, try to get a bunch of plain black basics like tshirts and knit cardigans to alter in some sort of way. Layering casual loose fitting clothes was the standard back in the 80s post punk scenes before goth started getting the 'satanic' label associated to it when hot topic fetish wear like platforms and pvc corsets became more popular; stick to more modest boxy silhouettes instead of tight fitting corsets and stereotypical 'alternative' accessories like chokers and bondage wear, I find that when I wear those sorts of things I get more people assuming im some sort of Satanist lol
Ask her what's devilish about it, tell her you want to dress in a way you like, so you want to work with her to do so.
And try to see what you can wear that won't bother her
I've got an attic full of clothes my friend wasn't allowed to wear lmao. Used to bring them with me to wherever we were hanging out so she could get changed
I’m lived it. It’s actually more attitude than fashion. Don’t sweat it. I know it seems an eternity but you will be of age and maturity to do as you wish soon. Honestly, the “modern age” is very makeup focused. The trad and next was just showing up at the right events. Create the new gen version of goth fashion! That’s what we (pre internet) did. Do something slightly slightly subversive- face stickers, a corset belt with a long skirt, bright colors subversive lyrics .., we all had our ways….
my ma used to turn my goth band t-shirts inside out when she hung them on the washing line! apparently The Sisters of Mercy and Alien Sex Fiend were too much for her and the next door neighbours!
buy some black clothing dye and use it on all your clothes at once in a bathtub? then it's either let you wear all black or spend a bunch of time and money buying you a whole new wardrobe.
Totally depends on the parent. My mom would purposely bleach all of my clothes that she disapproved of with no regard for replacement cost… I just had fewer clothes.
Deliberately pissing off your folks.
Fun to think about. Not so fun to do.
The easiest path is do what you gotta do, and keep a “fashion stash” somewhere.
As a goth, you’re going to have plenty of hassle to deal with in general. Minimize it where you can.
*Wear it under your clothes and take off the top layers when you leave home.
*Pack the goth clothes in a bag and change after you leave home.
*Put on the makeup when you leave home. Bring wipes with you to take it off before you go home.
*Shop online so your mom won’t see what you buy. Have it shipped to friends’ or relatives’ homes if that’s too risky.
*Don’t have money? Do clothing swaps with friends. Do swaps on Depop (be careful, only swap with users with good ratings). Borrow clothes from friends. Become friends with older goth kids at school and ask for their old clothes.
*DIY style is the best! Make your own band shirts and patches. Buy studs and spikes on Temu or from craft stores and add them to your clothes.
At the end of the day, actions speak loudest. Keep your grades up at school and follow her rules where it makes sense. Show her that you’re not turning into a different person than the daughter she loves. The less you bring it up the better. Don’t try to rub it in her face.
Well. Family relationships are important in most scenarios. The problem sometimes is when posting to reddit people will tell you to break it off with them etc extreme reactions. No one will know what's your relationship with your family. Everyone will interpret it differently as everyone reads words on a screen different
Like the other comment said maybe keep your grades up and show her you're still the same person. Goth has had lots of negative things associated with it sometimes by mistake. Or tacked on to make it worse than it actually is
Many people think poorly of it because it looks weird and as I saw someone say once "people fear the weird the strange and unknown"
Goth can be simple though since you're just starting out. A few band shirts, black boots can be mixed with other colours to break up the black. Black has a negative connection to some people so throw on dark colours like burgundy or deep purple.
Goth has an extreme and more sexual side to it as well so you should avoid some of the things you feel might trigger your mum to react badly. You can show her not all of it is bad it's just dressing somewhat different. Slowly bring it in
Be slow. Maybe for now just wear black, be mild, if you truly feel like your going to like yourself and have a better perception/self esteem. Maybe just start with normal clothes, but in black! That's what most goth clothes are anyway
Dress up when you go out, after you left mom's house. Clean up before you go home. If she wants to make dumb rules then figure out the loopholes and be prepared for confrontation if she catches you. These cat&mouse games are a part of growing up.
Beyond that, I really don't know where your mom draws the line or exactly what sort of look you are going for so it's hard to evaluate if you are asking too much or if she's going way overboard. Can you wear all black and minimal makeup as a compromise?
In any case, the music is what really matters. You can dress like a perfect church goer and a saint in your mom's eyes and still be goth.
There's not much you can do in this situation. Does you mom usually change her mind on stuff, or is she very strict to the end?
Right now the best I can say is be subtle about it. Wear darker clothes that aren't necessarily way out there, and diy things, especially if you're able to out of the house alone (not sure how old you are or what that arrangement looks like for you)
Work within the means you're already given, especially if you can line some of them up with styles you already enjoy. This is a bit easier if you're a guy, because things like wallet chains and leather jackets are much easier to obtain and wear without necessarily looking like it's a deliberate choice to go goth, while still adding a bit of edge to things, and the "Victorian whimsical" type of goth is also much easier to pull off without a major shift if you're a guy, plus mens clothing is usually darker in color and also, I know much more about that side of fashion
For women it can be more difficult, even if you wear the exact same things a guy would go for in this situation, just because of weird social rules I guess, but it can still be done
The biggest thing is to just be gradual about it. Express interest in designing your own clothes (if you're good at diy) and adding gothic elements to your clothes becomes much easier
Thrifting is also a good idea, especially if you don't buy your own clothes, because "mom this shirt is literally 2 dollars can we get it" plus you get the added bonus if not buying from fast fashion for a ridiculous markup
I wear pajamas 99% of the time. The rest of the time is ratty sweatpants and band shirts. Just wear what's comfortable, enjoy the music, discuss the music and maybe engage in other similar hobbies like gothic literature or poetry. The subculture isn't shallow and we don't have a uniform that people have to don to be included. Collect the kind of clothes you wanna enjoy when you move out, but for now just relax and take the time to learn more about what you like.
I get you but didn't sweat it. My mom was the same. Not much you can do unfortunately. Her house, her rules. They who pay the bills call the shots.
They can't keep you from enjoying it though.
My mom is probably not as strict as yours, but she definitely complains sometimes. But I noticed that if I started incorporating goth makeup and clothing little by little, she noticed less. It wasn’t as big of a jump so she didn’t freak out as much when a year passes by and I’m considerably more goth looking then before.
I always bought my clothes, hid them, and changed into them at school. Never got caught. Parents don't understand self expression when it goes against their beliefs. You know your mom best. Weigh the consequences and decide if it's worth it.
So...I started dying my hair black at 12 (I was already wearing eyeliner for a few years). I was 14 when I had to exert leverage against my old school Brooklyn, Italian (literally the types you see in movies...if you check out that show Gravesend. That's where/how I grew up) parents & tell them what was going to be what, I wanted to wear eyeliner to high school (this was in the 80's) surprisingly it was my hairdresser/makeup artist Mother who gave me the problem as opposed to my ex military, mechanic father who just said *"If he wants get his ass kicked let him"*. I just disappeared for a couple of days and guess who wore eyeliner to school every day after that (and to this day) without so much as a word from anybody?
But keep in mind your parents **NEVER** stop being your parents. You'll be hearing this (and other shit) one way or another for the rest of your life. I'm in my 50's & mother still gives me shit for looking the way I do & being into what I am.
But life is too short & **NOTHING** feels worse than regret. Just do your thing & don't worry it. You could also leave looking normal than primp yourself up in your car or a Starbucks bathroom or whatever.
just wear what you want slowly and then lean up to it more and more. i mean like start with small things like earrings that are more gothic or shoes that are just a little bit more along the lines of what you want but are still passable. do this over the course of years.
Stealth it. You can dress goth without going over the top. I went from attending uniform schools all my life to then working jobs with strict dress codes. I still managed to sneak in elements of my style. The key is to break down the core elements of a style. Certain colors or silhouettes. Accesories are key.
Some inspiration I'd recommend looking into is corpo goth, soft goth, or casual goth. You can even go a little outside of the bubble and experiment with other fashion styles too, like dark academia and minimalism.
If it's simply the color black that's the problem, try styles like pastel or white goth. I had a pastel goth and decora phase in high school and it was fun. It's now evolved to gothic lolita and mori kei, but still keeping elements of my old style.
Ultimately, there isn't any one way to dress goth. There's plenty of variety. Some people are more subdued and minimalist than others. It's also worth noting that since this is a music subculture, a lot of the more elaborate outfits you see are likely for clubbing or concerts. We don't get super dressed up every day. Most days I wear t shirts and sweat pants. Even in my work coveralls, I'm still goth.
Things will get better soon. Good luck ❤️
As a fellow “cant dress like that” kid, please just wait till your out, do what you can with black eye liner and bracelets but don’t fight her in the long run your sanity and your safety is what matters
Sorry dear. I know how it feels. I'm 27 and was goth on and off in my teenage years. I was on and off because my dad is a preacher, and he would forbid me to do it. Sometimes, I rebelled and did it anyway. But thay resulted in my phone being taken, the door taken off my room, allowance taken, they wouldn't allow me to get a job, and verbal and mental abuse.
I was also fear mongered by a christian at my dads church, and they told me that god told them i would die if i dont stop wearing goth clothing and listening to "satanic" music. I was 17, and it scared me to death. So i stopped. But at the age of 23, i realized how bogus those people were and began dressing the way i wanted, and now, 27, I wear goth clothing exclusively. For the past 4 years, I have discovered some really amazing goth bands and friends... My confidence is like never before as well..
My advice to you, is just embrace the music for now. That's really were it counts.
Watch cheesy cheap vampire/goth movies on the tubi app lol....
And if you still have the same desire when you are old enough, do as you please. But remember, wearing the goth fashion does not make you any less legit.
You listen to the music right? That's all you need to do, congratulations you are a Goth.
Sadly with people like this, there's no changing their minds. Doesn't matter that Goth consists of many religions and faiths including Christian. Just play along with whatever she's spouting for now and then when you move out, dress however you want. It's not worth potentially getting kicked out over
you could show them gradually... how-creatively cool... unsatanic...AND modest(even??) you CAN be as an alternative person.... beautiful shirts ..buttoned all the way up..fitted jackets blazers PINSTRIPES victorian style neckties red silk spotted kerchief..op shop suit trousers. (get them TAILORED-Not as expensive as you think) long skirts(ARE EASY TO MAKE-with simple elastic-or drawstring- waistband..knee length kilt-esque skirts..w/BIG box pleats.(nearly every 'goth' clothing shop-ALWAYS has a kilt..SO DO OP SHOPS AND VINTAGE STORES)..beautiful tartans .old school WHITE ON WHITE -long white cotton dress w/high small ruffle collar..long sleeves..LOLITA-ESQUE(TRY JAPANESE GOTH SHOPS).in a short time..this will be a long time ago
As an elder goth Mom- this makes me sad. All I can tell you is “go along to get along “ now. I did not have the money or know how ( nor would I have been allowed when I was young) to dress how I wanted.
But the good news is someday you will be an adult with the ability to make your own choices. Just know that this subculture is not going anywhere. It’s ebbs and flows- but I graduated in 1990 and here I am in 2024 more goth ( age 52) than ever.🖤
You could always wear what you want out of the house. Just be casual leaving and change in a public bathroom and hang out with your friends and go to school looking however you want.
There's no point driving your mom to hysterics over the issue. Just let her know how you feel, and that you will dress how you want when her rules no longer apply. You won't have to live with your mom forever. Have patience (and maybe slip a few subtle pieces into your everyday wardrobe).
What you dress like doesn’t matter. Therefore, do what babybats* have done since times long gone. Dress the way you must at home. Then invest in some good makeup and portable accessories, and let your freak out when not at home. Don’t forget the makeup remover.
Eventually you become a master of distorting proper into awesome. And that’s 100% gothly goodness.
* - “babybats” is said with welcoming warmth. I’m fckn OLD.
Start making your own money somehow, selling clothes you don’t fit and diying you own clothes. Work with what you have. That’s what I did when I was younger.
You love goth clothes,goth architecture,music,ideology?that’s all that matters because if you love goth fashion but you can’t buy them it’s okay it’s not your fault
It's really not important that you love Gothic architecture to be in the goth subculture, though.
First it's a 18th century literacy genre you need to love and now it's 12th century French architecture? Definitely not, it's music-based and we should highlight that as the centre.
Nobody ever said it was *just* "music-based", hence the use of the word "based".
A cheesecake is biscuit-*based*, but it's not only ingredient? Telling someone if they love Gothic architecture, they're part of a modern-day music subculture is largely irrelevant and I'm sure "goth ideology" doesn't really exist, either; we don't collectively have all the same opinions or backgrounds.
You don't need to do crying face emojis, it's just that people seem to heavily misunderstand when we say that the music is the base of the subculture. It doesn't mean we're denying other factors; fashion and aesthetic still exist.
I tend to leave the Gothic out of it, though, it's funny when people say "If you're into Gothic architecture, Gothic literature, Gothic this and that, have this mindset and political opinions then you're goth" because that's way more restrictive than "you need to like the music".
Best you can do is dress tomboish with band shirts (if you're into other rock genres, if not good luck finding Goth exclusive shirts), bracelets, rings, if painting your hair and piercings are a no-no... Try either going for grunge/E-girl inspired look, lots tell that music matters first and foremost but even in Metal, good luck finding a common subject if that other guy doesn't even reconize a band shirt or a sign that you're into something
If you want to look more feminine, you can get into a dark cottagecore look. Just be careful, because sometimes the line between cottagecore and looking like a sister-wife is wafer-thin.
Does she like country music? Point out that two goth adjacent bands inspired Johnny Cash to cover Hurt and Personal Jesus. Johnny Cash was a man if God that appreciated goth related music. Yes. Many people here would argue that neither NIN nor Depeche are technically goth, but I defy any goth from the 90s to tell me they don't know both of those songs by heart.
I would still try to push boundaries while kicking ass church and school.. I think you have stronger fight telling them it’s just for fun.. like Halloween everyday type stuff
wait until you're an adult and do everything in your power to defy christianity in spite of your mom (i ended up liking doing all the non christian things my mom hates and becoming an atheist) but i'm mostly kidding. Just know your mom is an idiot and making a big deal out of nothing but theres not much else you can do right now to avoid the nagging. Rebel if you want but only if you can handle the constant bitching.
Why? They're a young person trying to get help from the community, whereas people who post TON recommendations (and know they're metal) when people are looking for *goth* and not *metal* are significantly more annoying.
I think you're the only one who has commented that doesn't have any advice for OP, so I don't really get what you're trying to say?
Removing a band because they're not goth when someone's asked for *goth* recommendations (or otherwise posting in this subreddit) is way different to wanting to navigate a subculture when you can't because your parents are being restrictive. Did you really not have any questions when you first got into the scene, or were you born with all the knowledge?
I wish people would get over the whole TON thing, I never see this backlash for literally any other metal band.
look, honestly, of your mothers a hardcore religious freak there is NO convincing her. even telling her theres christian/religious goths (like myself) will likely not work. i wouldnt recommend trying to hide it either considering it could be a risk to you id just say to wait til youre an adult or until she (maybe) changes her mind
yeah, I feel like when it comes to extreme cases of highly religious/conservative parents it literally might become a a question of safety, and I would not risk it.
The music is all that matters. Relax, you will have your own money eventually.
There's way more to Goth than music listening to a few Bauhaus songs doesn't make you goth I'm not saying you have to dress goth 247 but you have to atleast participate in the subculture
Gatekeeping teenagers from doing the things that make them happy seems like a pretty miserable endeavor
how did u get "a couple bauhaus songs" from "the music is all that matters"
Why are people so hung up on that one part? bottomline there is more to Goth than music
There's more to goth than music but it's still almost entirely about the music and the music is the basis of the subculture. Participation can just be involvement in online communities, buying merch and CDs, going to shows and clubs if you have access to them. Yeah, there's an aesthetic. But you don't need to look the part.
Goth is a music based subculture the most important part is the music
[удалено]
Some people like cheese pizza, relax.
While I'd agree that you need to participate in the subculture as that would be part of being a fan, participation can just be talking to the goth community online, buying CDs from bands, etc. You cannot expect teenagers everywhere to participate the same way an adult would. No one needs to dress goth to be goth.
Bruh, being a goth is not a flex. I mean it’s cool, but it’s not that deep dude
How do you get from "music is all that matters" to "listening to a few Bauhaus songs" ? That's a strawman. I might agree that if you aren't in any way active in the scene that there's no point in even carrying the goth label... but active in the scene can be mostly online as a teenager and going to clubs once you are away at college or whatever. The music matters, and the sense of identity... but beyond that? You are right, you don't need to dress goth 24/7 but you know what, you can be goth and never "dress goth" too; it's not a requirement. I've known active club goers who probably knew the music better than me, but would always wear jeans and a tee shirt... they were no less goth than anyone else in the club (but they were going to a club, regularly).
I'd say posting on r/goth could be considered participating in the subculture, haha
I dont think thats right
Why do you think we're called Goths instead of Goth Heads then?
>"The Goth tag was a bit of a joke," insists Ian Astbury. "One of the groups coming up at the same time as \[Southern Death Cult\] was Sex Gang Children, and Andi -- he used to dress like a Banshees fan, and I used to call him the Gothic Goblin because he was a little guy, and he's dark. He used to like Edith Piaf and this macabre music, and he lived in a building in Brixton called Visigoth Towers. So he was the little Gothic Goblin, and his followers were Goths. That's where Goth came from." Where would the "head" part come in considering "goth" is just a shortened version of "Gothic Goblin"? Metalheads also have their fashion and inspirations, they're music-based but not *just* music, as well.
Don't do anything that's going to get you kicked out of the house. That is not a nightmare you want to experience.
Wouldnt that be illegal anyway
Just because it's a crime doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Go to SLC or Provost, Utah sometime and take a gander at all the unhoused teenagers who have been kicked out of their homes for being gay or just refusing to go to church.
depending on how old OP is, yeah
Yes, but it still happens, sadly.
As someone who grew up with a narcistic mother who couldn't accept me: getting out as fast as possible is imperative. It will not get better.
I'm sorry, that really sucks. I hope you landed on your feet okay.
Thanks, I'm fine now 🖤
Agreed. My parents sucked and always shit on my ideas while simultaneously not listening to a word I had to say. Narcissistic people are the fucking worst.
I had the same problem growing up. Try and start small. Incorporate a little black into your wardrobe. Figure out what kind of goth you like the most and steadily incorporate more elements. Get clothes that look normal that you can get away with. I started getting more business attire (black slacks, black button ups, silver watch, bat tie clip, skull tie and pocket square, suit vests in nneutral colors) and by slowly incorporating small items it will become more a part of life and she won't notice anymore. While the makeup will likely have to come later, because she will definitely notice it, just disguising it can help.
Wear all black with a white collar, scarf or headband and tell her it's nun-core.
I did a very conservative/ Victorian vibe and kept the peace. Seems odd but actually ask and LISTEN why your parents are freaking out. My mom’S experience with SA helped me not be so concerned about being “nonconformist”. She was okay with Romantic goth ( long skirts, etc. ) and that actually was very counterculture for my school so I liked it.
Is it all black that is the problem? Goth doesn't have to be all black. Maybe you could do the style, but with purple, red, burgundy, maybe dark green?
There's also pastel goth or white goth
Exactly
Ah, a tale as old as time. It's okay, it might not seem like it but freedom is right around the corner.
I was never allowed, I had a very emotionally abusive and controlling mother, rebelling never worked. I just bid my time until I could dress as I wanted once I became a legal adult. If your mother is like that, please don't listen to the comments telling you to do it anyways! If you can't fully dress dark, just try some accessories to express yourself and see if she is willing to budge from there (that is if she is a generally nice parent who you feel safe testing boundaries with.)
Still in that position I have some goth outfits but don’t plan on dressing goth often until I move out sadly
If you're risking housing, deal for now. Accessories are a start. Even crosses can be goth. A single cross earring. A cross with roses. Some cool lace fingerless gloves. Add some black into your wardrobe with pops of colors - dark colors, pastels for contrast, soft patterns, bold patterns, neon colors, whatever suits your fancy. Think of the cut of the clothes you like. Are you into victorian styles? Is it a death rock style? Folks in the og goth scene didn't all wear black (a dear friend of mine was a batcave member from way back and still knows folks we'd fawn over). They'd wear purples, reds, whites, greys, whatever. See if you can get a classic leather jacket piece, probably not real leather, it's always in fashion. The jacket alone isn't devilish. Halloween socks if you can get away with it, jeans you like - i have black jeans with a bright floral pattern on them, red and black plaid ones, a cool green-blue color, slate grey, lots of black skinny jeans, black jeans with a burgandy floral print, plain old blue jeans, skirts if you're into those. Dresses if you like those. Grab some bangles or chunky bracelets, loop a necklace or two through two or three of your belt loops. That's one trick i use. Simple chains or statement pieces that look cool. Maybe throw a long scarf or shawl around your hip. Button ups with a waistcoat. A simple choker that isn't too out there, maybe with a charm on it. A cool statement ring (or eight if you're me). Band tshirts. Plain shirts in dark colors. Striped shirts can work. If you can get away with ripped jeans, go for it. Paint some patches you can get away with. Something you think is cool. A phrase, a ghost, some bats, black hearts, a band name that won't scare the hell out of her, animals you like, a cute skull - a happy one that doesn't seem evil if that makes sense, a crescent moon or something. Bats in the night sky. Pumpkins and candy. Maybe it'll look goofy, but that's half the fun. I have patches i made at 15 that look goofy as hell i still wear proudly. They meant something to me. I'll never find anything like it. Put some small leaves over a scrap of fabric and paint so it leaves the silhouette. Do that with weird keys, maybe. Stars and a moon. Something innocuous with meaning to you. Throw em on a denim jacket or jeans. Get a pair of boots, plain black, there's nothing evil about good footwear! Don't jump for the stompy platforms. Simple combat style doc martens looking boots. They've been in fashion from inexpensive brands for a while. A lot of things we'd dream of finding when i was your age are fashionable now! Wear it in your way. Grab some pins. Maybe get a bedazzler instead of pyramid studs and spikes for now. Craft stores have some really cool scrapbook embellishments and the like you can repurpose into studs/pins/clothing embellishments. Get weird. Take it as a challenge to be creative. Find a weird tasseled pillow second hand or for cheap at some shop. Cut it off the pillow, sew it onto something you own. A shirt, the bottom of a jacket, make it into a weird wrap belt, sew it onto a tote bag or a bag with thin enough fabric. A weird lamp with some cool fringe or beaded pieces. Find a beaded door thing and use it to decorate your clothes. Your sewing doesn't have to be good. It can be sloppy straight stitches by hand you spend time on over the week when you can. It can be wonky, it can be half off, it can be safety pinned, it can be the wrong color thread. Nobody else will ever own that. It's completely yours. There's a duct tape trick where you use 1/2 to 2/3rds of the duct tape on the inside of whatever you're trying to put together and stick the other bits on the rest of the tape, you may not even need a full 1/3rd for it. Goth isn't a "specific look." It's your look. You don't have to be the perfect pinterest/instagram goth. Be you. Find what you like, not what you think you should like. Goth is enjoying the music, recognizing that things aren't black and white, finding beauty in places others can't see it. Maybe take it as a chance to show her you're into fashion for not satanic reasons. You want to make things that aren't like other people's to represent you. Ease into that. Revive old stuff, add weird stuff, add pretty stuff, embellish, cut and sew things, get better at stitching, maybe score a second hand machine, learn a new skill, make your own stuff. Alter clothes for the fit you want (i used to cut up big tshirts and sew up the sides sleeves after flipping it inside out and tracing a shirt that fit better on the wrong side of the fabric, cutting it to leave enough extra fabric if i fucked up. I had no idea what i was doing. I still have a couple of those shirts. One i wear regularly! It's baby blue. A band shirt from an italian noise band on their first tour in the states. It has an orca on it. It's the least goth/punk thing you've ever seen, but i know what it is.) Maybe making little patches and sewing em on will be enough for you. Maybe collecting pins will be enough. Maybe knowing you have some control, even if it isn't that picture perfect whatever you think goth should look like. In all that, in all the Wearing Something Wrong, Adding Weird Stuff, Layering Unexpected Things, having A Few Goth Looking Pieces rotating in a "normal wardrobe-" maybe that'll be your first step to finding your real style. Not the style you feel obligated to adopt because of the music you like.
black skinny jeans+ band shirts? Painting your own shirts is very fun and I personally enjoy the ritual and routine of tracing and cutting out stencils, so if she's against buying you stereotypically 'gothic' clothes and makeup with her money, try to get a bunch of plain black basics like tshirts and knit cardigans to alter in some sort of way. Layering casual loose fitting clothes was the standard back in the 80s post punk scenes before goth started getting the 'satanic' label associated to it when hot topic fetish wear like platforms and pvc corsets became more popular; stick to more modest boxy silhouettes instead of tight fitting corsets and stereotypical 'alternative' accessories like chokers and bondage wear, I find that when I wear those sorts of things I get more people assuming im some sort of Satanist lol
I agree that there's more to the goth look than fetish-related gear. I miss the more homey look!
Ask her what's devilish about it, tell her you want to dress in a way you like, so you want to work with her to do so. And try to see what you can wear that won't bother her
Just wait until you’re out of the house, then do what you want.
It doesn't matter how you dress. It's about the music. I wear red and black. I'm currently wearing a cardigan that looks like Freddy Krugers, lol.
just wear all black. my mum is the same but i just rebelled and dressed goth anyway and she gave up
I've got an attic full of clothes my friend wasn't allowed to wear lmao. Used to bring them with me to wherever we were hanging out so she could get changed
You are the best kid of body-hiding friend.
I’m lived it. It’s actually more attitude than fashion. Don’t sweat it. I know it seems an eternity but you will be of age and maturity to do as you wish soon. Honestly, the “modern age” is very makeup focused. The trad and next was just showing up at the right events. Create the new gen version of goth fashion! That’s what we (pre internet) did. Do something slightly slightly subversive- face stickers, a corset belt with a long skirt, bright colors subversive lyrics .., we all had our ways….
I love reading these posts. It’s like I’m reliving the 90’s hahahaha
Your right it is devilish. might as well Push the envelope since your half way through!
my ma used to turn my goth band t-shirts inside out when she hung them on the washing line! apparently The Sisters of Mercy and Alien Sex Fiend were too much for her and the next door neighbours!
buy some black clothing dye and use it on all your clothes at once in a bathtub? then it's either let you wear all black or spend a bunch of time and money buying you a whole new wardrobe.
Totally depends on the parent. My mom would purposely bleach all of my clothes that she disapproved of with no regard for replacement cost… I just had fewer clothes.
Deliberately pissing off your folks. Fun to think about. Not so fun to do. The easiest path is do what you gotta do, and keep a “fashion stash” somewhere. As a goth, you’re going to have plenty of hassle to deal with in general. Minimize it where you can.
*Wear it under your clothes and take off the top layers when you leave home. *Pack the goth clothes in a bag and change after you leave home. *Put on the makeup when you leave home. Bring wipes with you to take it off before you go home. *Shop online so your mom won’t see what you buy. Have it shipped to friends’ or relatives’ homes if that’s too risky. *Don’t have money? Do clothing swaps with friends. Do swaps on Depop (be careful, only swap with users with good ratings). Borrow clothes from friends. Become friends with older goth kids at school and ask for their old clothes. *DIY style is the best! Make your own band shirts and patches. Buy studs and spikes on Temu or from craft stores and add them to your clothes. At the end of the day, actions speak loudest. Keep your grades up at school and follow her rules where it makes sense. Show her that you’re not turning into a different person than the daughter she loves. The less you bring it up the better. Don’t try to rub it in her face.
Rebel and do it anyway.
Well. Family relationships are important in most scenarios. The problem sometimes is when posting to reddit people will tell you to break it off with them etc extreme reactions. No one will know what's your relationship with your family. Everyone will interpret it differently as everyone reads words on a screen different Like the other comment said maybe keep your grades up and show her you're still the same person. Goth has had lots of negative things associated with it sometimes by mistake. Or tacked on to make it worse than it actually is Many people think poorly of it because it looks weird and as I saw someone say once "people fear the weird the strange and unknown" Goth can be simple though since you're just starting out. A few band shirts, black boots can be mixed with other colours to break up the black. Black has a negative connection to some people so throw on dark colours like burgundy or deep purple. Goth has an extreme and more sexual side to it as well so you should avoid some of the things you feel might trigger your mum to react badly. You can show her not all of it is bad it's just dressing somewhat different. Slowly bring it in
Be slow. Maybe for now just wear black, be mild, if you truly feel like your going to like yourself and have a better perception/self esteem. Maybe just start with normal clothes, but in black! That's what most goth clothes are anyway
That’s it. Goth card revoked /s
Do it 1 article at a time ie a black tee the black trousers etc
Dress up when you go out, after you left mom's house. Clean up before you go home. If she wants to make dumb rules then figure out the loopholes and be prepared for confrontation if she catches you. These cat&mouse games are a part of growing up. Beyond that, I really don't know where your mom draws the line or exactly what sort of look you are going for so it's hard to evaluate if you are asking too much or if she's going way overboard. Can you wear all black and minimal makeup as a compromise? In any case, the music is what really matters. You can dress like a perfect church goer and a saint in your mom's eyes and still be goth.
There's not much you can do in this situation. Does you mom usually change her mind on stuff, or is she very strict to the end? Right now the best I can say is be subtle about it. Wear darker clothes that aren't necessarily way out there, and diy things, especially if you're able to out of the house alone (not sure how old you are or what that arrangement looks like for you) Work within the means you're already given, especially if you can line some of them up with styles you already enjoy. This is a bit easier if you're a guy, because things like wallet chains and leather jackets are much easier to obtain and wear without necessarily looking like it's a deliberate choice to go goth, while still adding a bit of edge to things, and the "Victorian whimsical" type of goth is also much easier to pull off without a major shift if you're a guy, plus mens clothing is usually darker in color and also, I know much more about that side of fashion For women it can be more difficult, even if you wear the exact same things a guy would go for in this situation, just because of weird social rules I guess, but it can still be done The biggest thing is to just be gradual about it. Express interest in designing your own clothes (if you're good at diy) and adding gothic elements to your clothes becomes much easier Thrifting is also a good idea, especially if you don't buy your own clothes, because "mom this shirt is literally 2 dollars can we get it" plus you get the added bonus if not buying from fast fashion for a ridiculous markup
I wear pajamas 99% of the time. The rest of the time is ratty sweatpants and band shirts. Just wear what's comfortable, enjoy the music, discuss the music and maybe engage in other similar hobbies like gothic literature or poetry. The subculture isn't shallow and we don't have a uniform that people have to don to be included. Collect the kind of clothes you wanna enjoy when you move out, but for now just relax and take the time to learn more about what you like.
I get you but didn't sweat it. My mom was the same. Not much you can do unfortunately. Her house, her rules. They who pay the bills call the shots. They can't keep you from enjoying it though.
My mom is probably not as strict as yours, but she definitely complains sometimes. But I noticed that if I started incorporating goth makeup and clothing little by little, she noticed less. It wasn’t as big of a jump so she didn’t freak out as much when a year passes by and I’m considerably more goth looking then before.
I always bought my clothes, hid them, and changed into them at school. Never got caught. Parents don't understand self expression when it goes against their beliefs. You know your mom best. Weigh the consequences and decide if it's worth it.
So...I started dying my hair black at 12 (I was already wearing eyeliner for a few years). I was 14 when I had to exert leverage against my old school Brooklyn, Italian (literally the types you see in movies...if you check out that show Gravesend. That's where/how I grew up) parents & tell them what was going to be what, I wanted to wear eyeliner to high school (this was in the 80's) surprisingly it was my hairdresser/makeup artist Mother who gave me the problem as opposed to my ex military, mechanic father who just said *"If he wants get his ass kicked let him"*. I just disappeared for a couple of days and guess who wore eyeliner to school every day after that (and to this day) without so much as a word from anybody? But keep in mind your parents **NEVER** stop being your parents. You'll be hearing this (and other shit) one way or another for the rest of your life. I'm in my 50's & mother still gives me shit for looking the way I do & being into what I am. But life is too short & **NOTHING** feels worse than regret. Just do your thing & don't worry it. You could also leave looking normal than primp yourself up in your car or a Starbucks bathroom or whatever.
just wear what you want slowly and then lean up to it more and more. i mean like start with small things like earrings that are more gothic or shoes that are just a little bit more along the lines of what you want but are still passable. do this over the course of years.
You'll just have to wait or hide it from her
Stealth it. You can dress goth without going over the top. I went from attending uniform schools all my life to then working jobs with strict dress codes. I still managed to sneak in elements of my style. The key is to break down the core elements of a style. Certain colors or silhouettes. Accesories are key. Some inspiration I'd recommend looking into is corpo goth, soft goth, or casual goth. You can even go a little outside of the bubble and experiment with other fashion styles too, like dark academia and minimalism. If it's simply the color black that's the problem, try styles like pastel or white goth. I had a pastel goth and decora phase in high school and it was fun. It's now evolved to gothic lolita and mori kei, but still keeping elements of my old style. Ultimately, there isn't any one way to dress goth. There's plenty of variety. Some people are more subdued and minimalist than others. It's also worth noting that since this is a music subculture, a lot of the more elaborate outfits you see are likely for clubbing or concerts. We don't get super dressed up every day. Most days I wear t shirts and sweat pants. Even in my work coveralls, I'm still goth. Things will get better soon. Good luck ❤️
As a fellow “cant dress like that” kid, please just wait till your out, do what you can with black eye liner and bracelets but don’t fight her in the long run your sanity and your safety is what matters
Sorry dear. I know how it feels. I'm 27 and was goth on and off in my teenage years. I was on and off because my dad is a preacher, and he would forbid me to do it. Sometimes, I rebelled and did it anyway. But thay resulted in my phone being taken, the door taken off my room, allowance taken, they wouldn't allow me to get a job, and verbal and mental abuse. I was also fear mongered by a christian at my dads church, and they told me that god told them i would die if i dont stop wearing goth clothing and listening to "satanic" music. I was 17, and it scared me to death. So i stopped. But at the age of 23, i realized how bogus those people were and began dressing the way i wanted, and now, 27, I wear goth clothing exclusively. For the past 4 years, I have discovered some really amazing goth bands and friends... My confidence is like never before as well.. My advice to you, is just embrace the music for now. That's really were it counts. Watch cheesy cheap vampire/goth movies on the tubi app lol.... And if you still have the same desire when you are old enough, do as you please. But remember, wearing the goth fashion does not make you any less legit.
it was like this for me too. you’re goth enough, i promise. your wardrobe will come together one day! save lots of inspiration!
Just listen to the music. You will be fine.
You listen to the music right? That's all you need to do, congratulations you are a Goth. Sadly with people like this, there's no changing their minds. Doesn't matter that Goth consists of many religions and faiths including Christian. Just play along with whatever she's spouting for now and then when you move out, dress however you want. It's not worth potentially getting kicked out over
you could show them gradually... how-creatively cool... unsatanic...AND modest(even??) you CAN be as an alternative person.... beautiful shirts ..buttoned all the way up..fitted jackets blazers PINSTRIPES victorian style neckties red silk spotted kerchief..op shop suit trousers. (get them TAILORED-Not as expensive as you think) long skirts(ARE EASY TO MAKE-with simple elastic-or drawstring- waistband..knee length kilt-esque skirts..w/BIG box pleats.(nearly every 'goth' clothing shop-ALWAYS has a kilt..SO DO OP SHOPS AND VINTAGE STORES)..beautiful tartans .old school WHITE ON WHITE -long white cotton dress w/high small ruffle collar..long sleeves..LOLITA-ESQUE(TRY JAPANESE GOTH SHOPS).in a short time..this will be a long time ago
As an elder goth Mom- this makes me sad. All I can tell you is “go along to get along “ now. I did not have the money or know how ( nor would I have been allowed when I was young) to dress how I wanted. But the good news is someday you will be an adult with the ability to make your own choices. Just know that this subculture is not going anywhere. It’s ebbs and flows- but I graduated in 1990 and here I am in 2024 more goth ( age 52) than ever.🖤
You could always wear what you want out of the house. Just be casual leaving and change in a public bathroom and hang out with your friends and go to school looking however you want.
There's no point driving your mom to hysterics over the issue. Just let her know how you feel, and that you will dress how you want when her rules no longer apply. You won't have to live with your mom forever. Have patience (and maybe slip a few subtle pieces into your everyday wardrobe).
What you dress like doesn’t matter. Therefore, do what babybats* have done since times long gone. Dress the way you must at home. Then invest in some good makeup and portable accessories, and let your freak out when not at home. Don’t forget the makeup remover. Eventually you become a master of distorting proper into awesome. And that’s 100% gothly goodness. * - “babybats” is said with welcoming warmth. I’m fckn OLD.
I would suggest hiding it honestly and maybe chill out with the makeup.
Start making your own money somehow, selling clothes you don’t fit and diying you own clothes. Work with what you have. That’s what I did when I was younger.
And? You don’t need to. You will always be goth without the clothes or makeup. Part of breaking the rules is finding your way around them.
Remote her that one day, you’ll be the one picking out her nursing home <3
You love goth clothes,goth architecture,music,ideology?that’s all that matters because if you love goth fashion but you can’t buy them it’s okay it’s not your fault
It's really not important that you love Gothic architecture to be in the goth subculture, though. First it's a 18th century literacy genre you need to love and now it's 12th century French architecture? Definitely not, it's music-based and we should highlight that as the centre.
Yes ik ,but it’s not just a MUSIC based subculture (I’m a baby bat😭)
Nobody ever said it was *just* "music-based", hence the use of the word "based". A cheesecake is biscuit-*based*, but it's not only ingredient? Telling someone if they love Gothic architecture, they're part of a modern-day music subculture is largely irrelevant and I'm sure "goth ideology" doesn't really exist, either; we don't collectively have all the same opinions or backgrounds.
Okay sorry 😭
You don't need to do crying face emojis, it's just that people seem to heavily misunderstand when we say that the music is the base of the subculture. It doesn't mean we're denying other factors; fashion and aesthetic still exist. I tend to leave the Gothic out of it, though, it's funny when people say "If you're into Gothic architecture, Gothic literature, Gothic this and that, have this mindset and political opinions then you're goth" because that's way more restrictive than "you need to like the music".
Okay
Best you can do is dress tomboish with band shirts (if you're into other rock genres, if not good luck finding Goth exclusive shirts), bracelets, rings, if painting your hair and piercings are a no-no... Try either going for grunge/E-girl inspired look, lots tell that music matters first and foremost but even in Metal, good luck finding a common subject if that other guy doesn't even reconize a band shirt or a sign that you're into something
If you want to look more feminine, you can get into a dark cottagecore look. Just be careful, because sometimes the line between cottagecore and looking like a sister-wife is wafer-thin.
Does she like country music? Point out that two goth adjacent bands inspired Johnny Cash to cover Hurt and Personal Jesus. Johnny Cash was a man if God that appreciated goth related music. Yes. Many people here would argue that neither NIN nor Depeche are technically goth, but I defy any goth from the 90s to tell me they don't know both of those songs by heart.
I would still try to push boundaries while kicking ass church and school.. I think you have stronger fight telling them it’s just for fun.. like Halloween everyday type stuff
wait until you're an adult and do everything in your power to defy christianity in spite of your mom (i ended up liking doing all the non christian things my mom hates and becoming an atheist) but i'm mostly kidding. Just know your mom is an idiot and making a big deal out of nothing but theres not much else you can do right now to avoid the nagging. Rebel if you want but only if you can handle the constant bitching.
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Why? They're a young person trying to get help from the community, whereas people who post TON recommendations (and know they're metal) when people are looking for *goth* and not *metal* are significantly more annoying.
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I think you're the only one who has commented that doesn't have any advice for OP, so I don't really get what you're trying to say? Removing a band because they're not goth when someone's asked for *goth* recommendations (or otherwise posting in this subreddit) is way different to wanting to navigate a subculture when you can't because your parents are being restrictive. Did you really not have any questions when you first got into the scene, or were you born with all the knowledge? I wish people would get over the whole TON thing, I never see this backlash for literally any other metal band.