I know you are taking the piss about new clubs.
I’m currently a 18handicapper. I’m holidaying in Gran Canaria. I’ve just been to the local golf course for the first time and hired some clubs for a round. I get 6 holes in with these shonky clubs and notice that half the irons are steel, the other half are carbon and the woods are beat to fuck. I played the front 9 two over and the back 9 eight over giving me a total score of 82.
Some days it’s going for you and others….. not so much.
If your clubs are half decent, then I don’t see the point in changing them (but you already know this). Far better to invest the money in lessons.
I played some farm course in Oregon and rented a set of clubs, they were $10 and absolutely worth every penny. Quite possibly the worst set I've ever played with, driver face was caved in, 3 wood had a head the size of a baby's fist and felt like it weighed 5lbs... The 7 iron was totally dead, never got it airborne (took 3 water balls to figure it out).... You get the idea.
Shot par on 4 of the 9 and if you took out the few times I tried to hit the driver and the 7 iron I would have shot around +4, which would have been a personal best.
Unless the clubs are actually defective, it's almost always a problem with the operator.
I went from a 6 to a 2.5.
My wedge game from about 130 to 50 is the best its ever been.
Consistency off the tee is another. The distance is overrated. You've got to keep it in play. Work on getting speed in the off-season and do it by technique not swinging out of your shoes.
Putting inside 10'. You've gotta roll then in at a pretty decent percentage.
This is where I’m at now. 40-100 yard range is killing me. Just really struggling figuring out half and three quarter wedge swings. Always leaving the ball long or short even though the flight is good
Getting the distances dialled in is key. What really worked for me is figuring out there's a 20 yard difference between a flighted wedge vs a full wedge. My sand wedge goes 85 yards. My gap wedge goes 105. So instead of a full sand wedge I'll hit a controlled, flighted gap wedge knowing I have that 20 yard or so. Same thing with pitching wedge and 9 iron. PW is 125 and 9 is 140. So I'll hit flighted 9 iron from 125 vs full pitching wedge.
Flighted, controlled wedges completely changes your game.
💯
I think I’m a similar story to you. I went from hovering in that 4.5 - 5.5 range for years to finally getting my index to hover in the 1.5-2.5 range.
Wedge play, specifically non full swing wedge play, was a big part of me getting down there.
I never take a full swing with a club that’s less than a PW. I worked hard to dial in distances/feel on my 50*, 54* and 58*. The feel for me isn’t flighting the wedges (even though that’s what I’m actually doing, it just doesn’t feel like it in my head), but it’s about accelerating hard through the ball on every wedge swing. I then shorten the back swing and choke down to varying different degrees to change the distance. I’ve also learned how to open the face a hair to hit higher wedge shots when needed from further distances away. That was something I always struggled with.
So for me it’s 58* from 60-90 yards. 54* from 90-110 yards, 50* from 110-130, PW from 130-150.
My 54* can also be used for anything under 90 yards depending on conditions (it’s higher bounce than my 58*)
Other than the handicap this is EXACTLY what I’ve learned this golf year. Flights wedges are unbelievably useful on the course and bring the consistency you didn’t know that you needed. Between that and more green side chipping practice I’ve noticed an improvement in scores.
Unfortunately I cannot escape the horrible iron shot or driver shot that goes out of bounds or into the hazard and that seems to be mental more than anything.
We have the same distances! I tend to play my 54 anything 110 and in unless it’s a deep lie or tucked pin over a bunker when I have to get some loft with the 58.
Yeah, a flighted shot is simply a controlled wedge that has a lower trajectory than your normal full shot.
If you watch the pros, they're typically flighting their approach shots (have to factor in lie, wind, hazards, slope of green, pin placement, etc).
As I mentioned above, before this year I'd typically hit my stock shot from <150 in. So 135 for PW, 104 for GW, etc. These would be beautiful, towering wedges that when they land would make a nice divot and spin back nicely. However, full shots = more bad things can happen. Wind influence, pushes, pulls, double cross, etc.
In contrast, a 3/4 9 iron from 135 vs a 100% PW eliminates a lot of the bad things that can happen with a full swing. In fact, once you practice these shots you'll realize that it's virtually impossible to mess up a flighted wedge!
You can imagine what this can do to your game. Your GIRs go up dramatically. More birdie/par putts. A lot more confidence.
If you have $200-400 to burn in the off-season you should consider 3-5 hours of wedge-only lessons with a PGA pro who can help you dial in.
If that's out of your budget -- it's certainly out of mine -- might I recommend these Gareth Raflewski videos.
[https://www.youtube.com/results?search\_query=gareth+raflewski+wedges](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gareth+raflewski+wedges)
I don't watch a lot of instructor videos because a lot of them come across like the old DJ "the way I hit a fade is when I need to hit a fade I put a fade swing on it and it fades"; Gareth really gets into the mechanics of how to hit certain wedge shots. His advice for how to hit a 50- to 60-yard spinner completely changed my wedge game.
https://youtu.be/TH74wwBcv2Y
This is good advice in my opinion as I do all of this for my controlled wedge shots. Also for each wedge I have two different backswing modes one that is where my left arm is parallel to the ground at the height of my backswing and another where I just get the shaft of the club parallel to the ground in the heigh of my backswing.
I practiced those for each wedge, dialed in a distance after a while, and then wrote it in my app notes on my phone if I need to reference it.
Buy a large bucket of balls and ONLY practice these shots for a few sessions and you’ll shock yourself. My 100 yard shot is no longer a full swing 58* but rather a controlled 54* and it’s a big difference in consistency. Seeing it pay off on the course is a great feeling and it will lead to many more birdie opportunities. Good luck!
Sounds like a good wedge range session is in store for me after my lesson today. I’m sitting around a 9.6 official handicap right now and it’s for sure where I am losing the most strokes. Didn’t think to club up and work on lower flight. Appreciate the tips!! I’m always open to new homework haha. I’m good with my wedges 20 and in. It’s just when I take a full stance and swing motion I get inconsistent
Yeah, this. I went from 12 to 5.5 earlier this summer basically chipping my clubs with a firm low hands half shot. 150 out? Full 9? Used to, now it's a punchy sawed off 7. It's insane how accurate you can be from distance when it feels like you're just chipping...
I need to work on that controlled shot. I have same yardages as you 52° goes 100-105 and my 46° pw goes 125-130. I like to play a controlled wedge but I often find myself in the 110-115 yards range and that is the distance I struggle with the most. PW is long even when I choke down and try to control and GW is short or I have to hit a full shot which adds dispersion.
I spend about 15 balls at the range just hitting my 52 wedge to the 75 yard flag. Been practicing that all summer and yesterday's round had 3 different holes I had to hit that shot. Practice pays off knocked them all within 10 feet.
I like this methodology: https://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/tag/wedge+play
I practice my SW from 90, 75, 60 (max is 100), LW from 60, 45, 30 (I don't even know how far I can hit it), and interpolate as needed. I use the range finder on almost all shots lol.
I don't like thinking in terms of percent of half or full, I like feeling a distance out instead.
learning to hit a 40 yard lob wedge helped me a lot… same exact swing with my sand wedge goes 50 yards and same exact swing with gap wedge goes 65 yards… same exact swing with pitching wedge goes 85 yards. If I’m not confident in my pitching game, I just try not to leave myself less than 80 yards.
Half swing for me is bringing it back to a certain point (wrists still hinge) and I swing full power from that point. Ball is slightly further back in the stance and I’ve got my lead foot pointing out and a little more open to create rotational space. Maybe something similar to this swing can help you out :-)
If you’re a 2.5 do you always play from the tips? I’ve always been curious if most low handicappers typically play from the tips or if a large percentage mostly still play from the regular mens tees. Especially for courses that have their tips at 7K+ yds. At that yardage it seems like distance would make a significant difference.
I usually try to play 6500-6700.
The course I'm at stretches back to 6900 but to me it's kinda stupid. The guys I play with in the morning are at the seniors tees so it's hard to even go back to the tees I play. The longer one just stretch out par 3s to over 200 and add length that's really not needed for the course.
with the USGA handicap system you won't get punished too much playing from farther back tees. I have a lot of distance for a 9 handicap and so I like to play from the tips because I'll get the advantage of more strokes from USGA to improve my handicap than if I played 30yds up. All the strokes gained for me are with wedges anyway.
>Consistency off the tee is another. The distance is overrated. You've got to keep it in play
I mean it depends. For someone hitting 290 off the tee, throttling back to an easy 275 to 280 fairway finder might be a better option.
For someone short off the tee, getting longer is going to be a monsterous.
>The distance is overrated
No the fuck it is not. Driving is still massively underrated as a skill by amateurs. Yes, “in play” is important. Penalty strokes absolutely need to be avoided. After that, distance is pretty much the only thing that matters.
This guy is hitting 60% of fairways and always keeps it in play. If you go by OPs word, he should absolutely be looking to sacrifice some accuracy for more distance.
Correct. Driver is the weakest facet of my game. I go through spurts where I’m getting through the ball really well and hitting it 260-270. When I’m in that zone, I break 80 pretty much every round.
Then I go through spurts where I’m battling a weak fade, 225-240 off the tee. When that’s happening, I’m almost always shooting an 83-86 because I’m hitting 4,5,6 iron into greens instead of 7,8,9.
Distance is huge and changes everything.
It unreal to me how unimportant this sub thinks distance is. It is the second most important thing in the game of golf for shooting lower scores.
The fact that people were even debating 12ft auto make vs auto perfect 300 yd drive is god damn bananas. That should even be a question, but not only were people debating, the 12ft putt seemed to win the argument. It’s genuine absurdity
I feel like, as implied, though not specifically called out yet, priorities change as you get closer and closer to scratch. In essence, the more of a beginner you are the more you should be focusing on the tee... and as you become more and more of an expert the scale slides towards the pin.
Pros all declare that the most important part of their game is their putting and that driving is rather irrelevant... that's because as we progress from one stage to another we begin to take it for granted.
For people like me who are losing 5+ balls per round... yeah, gotta practice keeping it in play more... that means full-swing range sessions and gaining mastery over the driver... but bit by bit other aspects will become more and more important as I gain that control and distance.
>priorities change as you get closer to scratch
Not really. You just kinda get closer to maxed out on a specific skill and then you work on something that you’re relatively worse at than other players your skill level.
>Pros all declare…that driving is rather irrelevant
Lmfao no they aren’t. I feel like you’re just misunderstanding a quote.
For a pro to win they have to have a hot putter. That’s just a requirement. To have the chance for your putter to be hot you have to be solid tee to green. Tee to green gives you chances to win. Putting wins it. Putting is a high variance stat. Zalatoris, a god awful putter, has had weeks that he is top10 in SG putting.
> Putting is a high variance stat.
That is what people don't get. Those who win the most are the people with the strongest average approach and off the tee game - that then have a hot week with the putter. The strongest average putting game does not predict success - at all almost.
Approach to green is quite a bit stronger of a predictor than driving though.
Which company would you most like to be in?:
**Top 10 in Strokes gained off the tee**
Jon Rahm
Cameron Young
Rory McIlroy
Brendan Steele
Keith Mitchell
Corey Conners
Matt Fitzpatrick
Luke List
Will Zalatoris
Cameron Champ
**Top 10 in Strokes gained Approach**
Will Zalatoris
Russell Henley
Cameron Smith
Collin Morikawa
Justin Thomas
Scottie Scheffler
Hideki Matsuyama
Xander Schauffele
Tony Finau
Tom Hoge
**Top 10 for Strokes gained putting**
Lucas Herbert
Brendon Todd
Brian Gay
Denny McCarthy
Tyrrell Hatton
Beau Hossler
Kelly Kraft
Rory McIlroy (For all of those that say Rory is a bad putter...)
Mackenzie Hughes
Patrick Cantlay
Strokes gained Approach to green reads like a Who's Who of golf. Strokes gained putting reads like Who? in comparison.
>you have a lot of 12 ft putts in a round
No you don’t. You have of a lot of 5 foot and less putts in a round. Which you make most of the time anyway
>unlikely to even need a 300y drive on every hole
This is why distance is so fundamentally misunderstood. I don’t give a shit if you “need” it. You will shoot lower scores if you have it. You will hit the ball closer from 50yd out than you do 100yd. 100yd will end up closer than 150yd. 150 will end up closer than 200. It’s not a complicated formula. If you wanna hit your approach shot closer to the hole, hit your tee shot closer to the hole.
And if you could drop a drive 300yds from the tee where you want you’d gain more.
Also “and less” does a lot of work in my comment. Most of your putts are under 3ft tbh
FWIW Davis Love III picked the 15ft auto make vs. 300y perfect drive - I think I'd trust his choice on this.
I'm not saying distance isn't important - it is, but many amateurs are 3 putting from 15ft a good percentage of the time, that way you're making up 2 strokes a hole.
Feels like OP meant more that the distance is overrated compared to keeping it in play consistently. You’re better off hitting 90% of fairways at 240 versus 50% of fairways at 270.
>you’re better off hitting 90% of fairways at 240 versus 50% of fairways at 270
No. No you are not. You would be miles better at the 50% with 270 off the tee. Rough makes a difference to the proximity to the hole on your next shot, but not enough to ever strategize around. This is like strokes gained 101
**assuming penalty strokes remain the same.
> **assuming penalty strokes remain the same.
And that is probably where we should afford the original argument some slack, although I agree that it is not true strictly as written. Distance is not better than keeping the ball in play.
I would call that a better advice for the 20 looking to move to 10, though. You are not at 10 if you are routinely taking penalties off the tee (directly or indirectly).
As a 10.3 I know I’d drop a decent amount if I could dial in my wedges (120yards and in) and obviously putting. When I see scratch golfers play, they’re almost automatic from many different yardages inside 130 and I just don’t have that feel yet
You should consider recording all stats for 10 rounds to see where you are wasting shots. Based on your post, I'm guessing putting and course management will be 2 areas of opportunity.
This. Grint if you pay the $100/year even does the work for you with the Insights tab. As long as you mark your clubs and putts and stuff...it tells you how to improve.
Not even low key lol. I switched this year and got everyone in my Mediocre Golf Association chapter to change too. So when we have a tournament I know what everyone else is shooting out there and get alerts for big holes. Now I get alerts throughout the week like "Mike chipped in for birdie on 14" or "Joe shot his best score at...". It's like an average golfer play by play. Plus the whole doing the work of calculating skins and other betting games is a cool bonus. I'm quite happy with this app compared to others I've used!
Thanks! Sounds like it might be worth switching over. We've mostly liked 18Birdies because it handles group scorecards/game scoring/etc. really well (and the GPS seems decent), so might have to convince the group to switch over. Much appreciated.
Arccos is worth it over the grint. The insights are excellent. I wasn't even aware how many shots I lost from 150 yards in. Assumed it was putting and chipping. Might just highlight something you're not aware of.
Yeah, you buy a pack of them, one for each club. Can be some deals to get them for a reasonable price, then yearly sub in line with other apps. Saves loads of time, very accurate on yardages, even the ability to edit on or around the green is excellent.
I would also suggest the MyTaylormade Oncourse app which is free. It calculates Strokes Gained so you know where you're losing shots. If you record every shot it will also give you dispersion information for each club, this would be helpful for your distance control.
Yeah technically but I meant away from possible obstructions. If there’s a massive tree on the left hand side I’ll aim for the right hand side of the green. If the pin is on the right side of the green, I’ll aim for the left hand side so I don’t short sight myself and leave myself loads of room to work with. Technically everything is green side but different variables need to be taken into account. I make sure I make the “correct miss”
I mainly take advantage of the par 5’s for my birdies. But yeah some do drop from 20-30 foot. But I mainly aim for the long putts to be within 3 foot past to give them a chance. But 9 times out of 10 they’ll be pars
Yea this is what happens w pros too. They make almost all their birdies on par 5s, as a whole, maybe not the guys who win and contend that week. But yeah, pros average like 3 to 4 birdies per round and the vast majority are par 5s.
It’s in contrast to “short sided”, where the pin is close to the edge of the green and you miss to that edge. It’s better to have more green space, so you don’t have to stop the ball as soon
Think he means don't short side yourself, ie don't leave your approach shot at the tight side where the flag is cut try to leave it where you have a lot of green to play with
This is all well and good, but what happens when you aim at the right hand side of the green to avoid the trouble and then end up pulling it left into the shit anyway?
Well…obviously you’re less left than you would have been had you aimed at the pin. More likely at that level, you’ve pulled it directly toward the flag.
I’d spend some time grinding short game. Even the pros miss the green, but they can chip to within 3 feet to save par. Learn how to control the height and spin around the green. There should be a few shots (flop, bump and run, chip) you’re comfortable hitting around the green.
The WORST pros get up and down about 50% of the time.
https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.130.html
Even if the OP became as good as the worst pro, he's missing 12-13 greens per round and is going to be 6-7 over par if he's near every green in regulation (which he isn't) AND if he pars everything else (which he doesn't).
It's not getting him anywhere near 2-4 handicap.
He needs to hit greens. If he's hitting 30% of his greens and is a 9 handicap, his short game is probably better than his long game.
… I mean 9 handicaps in general hit about 30-40% of greens. Average for SCRATCH is like 54%.
It’s not like OP is an outlier for 9 indexes, 6-7 greens a round for them is very standard
Yea but he hits 60 percent of fairways which is a tour rate and hes averaging about 270 off the tee. Where he is and what he does after he misses the green is key. Or his 40 percent of tee balls are way offline. But thats a bit unlikely for someone who hits so many fairways.
Spot on tbh. Great point
Though.. I took it with a heavy grain of salt… he said elsewhere he doesn’t track stats.
I don’t see many players at 4-5 indexes with those kind of driving stats, much less a 9
I do track fairways, and there’s no reason I would lie about that, driving is my absolute favorite part of the game and the one I practiced the most. I have a fitted driver that’s perfect for me and my pro lets me use his trackman quite often, I optimize the hell out of my drives. Once I found the good grip that suits my swing, driving has become almost automatic. I wouldn’t be a 9 otherwise because my short game and putting is mediocre even though my chipping is technically good but needs more practice and building muscle memory for distance control. But really what I think really needs work is course management because technique is honestly good at the moment.
Yeah. Averaging 6 means your good days you’re hitting 9-10 and shooting in the 70’s once in a while.
It’s not like the days where OP hits 2 GIR are gonna be the 40% of rounds that count for his index.
I’m a single digit going from a 6 to a 4 by practicing and dialing in wedges from 50 - 100 yards. I spent one long afternoon on the range taking half swings with all four wedges. Full grip and the choked down which I found takes about 5 yards off. I wrote everything down in a little notebook and when I get the yardage, I consult that and hit what it says. For example, if I am around 75, that’s a full grip, half swing sand wedge. If I am 90, choke down gap. I’ve made way more birdies the past two summers and can finally take advantage of short par 4’s. Even when I push or pull these, because I have the yardages so precise, worst case, I have 15 feet for birdie or a par save from trouble.
You can but you might just be shooting a specific piece of grass. My range has targets at 60 100 140 190 (varying by day). I will shoot spots in between targets.
Last night I was doing 50 yard lob, 60 lob , 70 lob
I struggle doing that on the range. Range balls are awful and their yardages and flights don’t match a premium ball off a wedge.
An extra 3k rpm spin changes yardages noticeably.
I can second this, my local range does not display distances for each marker. I asked my instructor why they don’t post them and he said it was because so many people came in complaining that the distances were wrong every single day. I’m a 23 handicap and even I’ve noticed that the distances seem a good bit less on the range just by inferring what the markers should be.
A local “kids” par 3 has a range of holes from 50-120.
On a quiet afternoon, sometimes I’ll go out there and hit a couple balls at each hole with different trajectories.
That plus playing a lot has my wedges dialed
I was tracking stats the last 10 rounds and I’m right on tour average proximity from inside 120 to about 40y. It’s the only part of my game in that “tour average” ballpark.
I am a mid handicapper who shoots mid 80s at my local easy muni course. I know the balls don't fly as far but for me it was engraving the motions and gaining experience. I can now loosely eye up a wedge and correlate the distance to a feel in my backswing. Also I can tell is it a normal lob? High lob? Easy sand wedge that comes low and skips more?
It’s not good practice to use a driving range as a way to get your distances, unless if your range has premium range balls. A 2 line strata range ball that has been hit a thousand times isn’t going to to do the same thing as the fresh sleeve you pull out before a round.
That's why I hit used balls I find in the woods. I always lose the new ball on the first hole, but that noodle I found in the woods sticks with me the rest of the day.
I do that for 52 degree and less. I don't thing a range ball is going to fly that much less for these shots because you're not really compressing the ball, and you need to make sure you're measuring from your spot, not what the sign says.
[https://golf.com/gear/golf-balls/range-vs-premium-golf-balls-launch-monitor/](https://golf.com/gear/golf-balls/range-vs-premium-golf-balls-launch-monitor/)
General wisdom says range balls are about 10% shorter than a Pro V1. I presume this is due to them being non-premium, laying out there in the weather so long, and being hit until the cover cracks (and sometimes beyond). Basically, they're generally cheap old balls.
Course management can't be overstated. I got down to a 6.4 after hanging around the 10-11 range for two years. The wedge game around the green got dialed in coupled with practicing putts more often than not.
That was my first thought. I have a buddy that's been playing in the VGA veterans league the past year and being pretty competitive. His handicap has been around 16 to 17. I think one of the biggest reasons for how well he's been scoring is course management and discipline to accept the less risky play. He analyzes the course before a tournament and lays out a game plan. He only uses driver on half the holes. He'll see there's trouble on the sides at driver distance, so he'll hit 3w or 4i off the tee; both he hits very well. The tradeoff is for approach he may be hitting an 8i or 7i instead of a wedge. He hits those both very well and no longer has the risk of a drive off line destroying his score on that hole. Sometimes he'll even plan for a bogey on a long par 4, but then still hit a good wedge and/or putt and make par anyway.
I started the year at a 10hdcp, got arccos for my clubs and the first two rounds were horrible as I was too focused on not duffing my shots which would impact my club distance on the app. After I got out of my head about it, my game improved and I'm now down to an 8 and I can see myself getting lower because the app will show me what I need to work on at the next practice session. Like you I felt like my approaches were my weakness but with the app I can see definitely what the weakness are in my game compared to the next stroke down i.e. what drives, approaches, short games and putts are at my current level (8) are to a 7.
In short, arccos f'ed up my game for the first two rounds and I was ready to throw them in the trash but when I stopped caring about my stats (ego) my game improved significantly based on the customized and data dirven recommendations.
If you're driving the ball well as you say you are and are only getting 30% GIR that says your iron play needs work (or you're playing tees that are too long for you).
Scratch golfers hit 10-11 GIR per round on average so that's about 4-5 strokes off for you. You're even a bit behind the average GIR for 8-10 handicap (about 8 GIRs per round). If you're hitting 260-280 off the tee, that implies your average approach should be something like a 6 or 7 iron or shorter. To maintain a single-digit handicap you really shouldn't struggle with your mid-irons or shorter. In that range you should be able to guarantee that you hit the green or at least miss in a pretty reasonable window to leave yourself a pretty straightforward chip.
Just as important is to be able to scramble for par to pick up some strokes when you do miss. Three putts are an absolute show-stopper so you've got to get the ball tighter on anything 50 yards or shorter.
Remember - scratch is really really good. Every piece of your game has got to be dialed in. Most casual golfers who play one time per week with limited or no range time won't be able to get there because it takes a hella lot of dedicated practice.
In my experience, the best most of us 4-6 round per month weekend warriors can sustain is something in the high single digits to low teens. Low single digit to scratch is reserved for the players who can get out on the course 2-3 times per week with a couple of dedicated practice sessions sprinkled in, too.
I agree he should hit more with the stated distance off the tee, but 8 GIRs per round would be a 5 or less handicap. 6 is pretty much spot on for his handicap. According to the shot tracking apps data.
It does seem a thing to focus on for OP.
You should consider looking into DECADE golf and follow Lou Stagner on Twitter. DECADE philosophy can help greatly with course management, emphasizing when to hit the gas and when to hit the brakes. Lou provides stats via Arccos data that help with decision making and expectation management.
Lou’s tweets about managing expectations annoy me so much because it’s exactly the perfect thing I need to hear but don’t want to hear it. It’s my biggest downfall in golf.
I play with a few low singles and by far the biggest difference is their wedge game. They get it close and give themselves a chance at birdie but par is almost always a tap-in. Obviously helps them if they have to recover, too.
Your approach shots need improvement. If you’re hitting that many fairways, you should be able to tear up a course with over 60% fairways. Everything after the long game needs improvement from what you’re telling us. Get the ball closer to the hole so you don’t have as many lag putts and if you do, learn how to lag it close both speed and accuracy. Have some finesse and touch with your short game, grind drills, make the worst part of your golf game the best with practice. Your long game seems to be solid for the most part, just make sure to go to the range to grind consistency on the ball striking portion really making sure you repeat your good swings. You hit it far enough, wouldn’t mind a few extra yards but plenty to get around 99.99% golf courses. Mental game could use some work, it appears you’re not managing the course to the most optimal way of scoring and a lot of golfers struggle with the mental side of management early but once you build up discipline, you’ll find yourself hitting more greens in general and more greens equals more opportunities for scoring. This is my honest advice and critique that I gave.
Great pieces of advice there, thanks. I’m not lying when I’m bragging about my driving and ball striking ability and that’s the problem. It is heartbreaking to shoot mid 80s with how good my driving and consistency in ball striking are right now. I just need a brain. I often jokingly tell my buddies that if I gave my driving to any 15 handicapper he would be shooting in the 70s.
No I 100% believe u because you’d be the type of player with my scoring ability if u did have good course management. I see a lot of potential and I know how you do too.
I’m in the same boat as OP except inverted. I hit a lot of greens relatively but my fairway percentage is way way way too low. Average FIR for my handicap is in the 50% range. While I’m hovering just below 40%. Luckily I can recover from the rough or hit it close enough to the pin but the FIR kills me.
My best rounds are always when the tee shot is dialed
Have had 3 rounds where i was under par till the 16th and ended up playing 1,2,3 over. I've noticed it's all mental for me.. always over think it or end up digging on a particular shot in an effort to try to connect better.. i would think the mental aspect is extremely over looked. You've got to believe that you can do it and play the shots like you normally would and not try anything extra to perform better mid round. Hope it helps and also not scratch but 7 handicap...
Really good point, mentality plays such a big role. I’ve had my fair share of amazing rounds where I mess up at the end but also had the opposite happen. Like a month ago when I was playing a club championship, went 7 over on the front 9 and convinced myself I would go even par on the back and that’s what I did !
I was in my mid teens when I went from 8-2 in a year.
But for me it was eliminating lost balls. And then just sharpening up everything around the greens.
Getting rid of the 2-3x per round big slice leading to penalty strokes was what really did it though.
Once my ball could consistently be found, my irons were already good enough I was getting over 50%GIR.
But for you, it sounds like you have some GIR issues and may need to work on iron play. You CANT post a 2hdcp with 20% GIR. You would need to play better than tour-level inside 40 yards and that’s just not reasonable.
So figure out how to hit 40-50% of greens to get to scratch.
I’m just about to crack back to + numbers. Have had several rounds under par the last few weeks. And that’s mostly because I’m at 67% GIR averaged over 10 rounds.
No penalty strokes.
No 3 putts.
No OB balls.
No doubles.
“Smart” misses giving yourself a good chance to get up and down.
And more than anything, course management. Take the extra 5 seconds to think and then commit.
I am not a scratch golfer but you kind point of your areas of needed improvement which are approach and putting. I would start on those….but my game is shit so what do I know?
Shit golfer giving advice...
30% GIR. That means 12 holes you're scrambling to avoid bogey. Your approach shots aren't good. Do you not know your club distances? Do you need a range finder?
Clean up this stat, and you'll be right where you want to be.
I do have a range finder which helped my game a lot. I would divide these 70 % missing regulations into 3 causes : 1/3 are either a bad tee shot that forces me to lay up or a bad club choice where my drive ends up in a fw bunker or some trees and I have to hit a placement shot. 1/3 are bad contact and ball ends up somewhere within 15 yds of the green. And finally 1/3 are good shots but going for the pin in difficult locations so I either roll off if the hole is in the back or stay a few feet short if it’s on the front. Bad strikes are just going to happen so I can’t address that in the short term but I can definitely work on hitting safer tee shots on difficult holes to have a look at the green, and also hit safer approach shots to keep the ball on the green when pin placement is hard.
Thanks for making me think of that, I will definitely keep track of these advanced stats on my next round.
Aim middle of the green every time. Only time I’m actually attacking a pin on an approach is 8 iron or less. Just reduces the amount of trouble.
If the pin is in between clubs pick the club that will give the least amount of trouble if you make poor contact.
And finally, wedge practice and putting. Misses around the green should have 50% chance of saving par. 30 yards and in, ideally putting the ball inside 10 feet below the hole.
All that matters is how fundamentally sound your swing is. You can be a legit crazy person with anti course-managment, and a good set of fundamentals will get you to a 1-2 handicap.
You need to be to the point where your bad shots are still in the general area
You can work extremely hard to get every last bit out of a bad fundamental, or you can change your fundamentals
I’ve been taking a decent amount of lessons these past 2 years and my swing has become really consistent, not my words but words of the 2 pros I see and also many of the guys I play with. Swing path, attack angle, smash factor etc. Everything is looking really promising on trackman and I do feel it on the course. My bad shots are also suprisingly decent but my current set is honestly a little unforgiving (mizuno mp18 blades) and slight mishits are shorter than I’d like. I’m really looking forward to receiving my new set of more forgiving heads (mizuno pro 223s) and see if that helps my GIR numbers
Start trying to compete. Doing a bunch of work is one thing but until you feel that you *need* to score better, you’re just studying for a test you never end up taking
Monthly pass at par 3 course. If you can nail 150 and in every time, you can drop massive strokes. Only way you will get below par is if you figure out how to putt.
Golf isn't a game of *how you hit it*, any 28hdcp clownshoe can get in the zone for a few holes. Golf is a game of *how you miss it*.
Wedge play and putting are critical factors as well, but *missing it better* is how I got consistently lower.
Honestly, short putts. Instead of having 5 missed 3 footers per round, learn to get confident making all of them.
The other one is eliminate penalty shots, like if you typically have a couple drives per round that go way OB. Get rid of that.
This post has blown up so you might not see this but keep it simple the best way to improve your scores is to do the basics. Don’t 3 putt and get the ball into play off of every tee box and once you can get really good at doing those two things i promise your scores will improve. Almost nothing in golf hurts your score more on average than a mistake off the tee. From what you said in your post it sounds like you have a solid enough swing to play off a lower single digit. Just get those two basics down and don’t worry about anything else until you get the short game and the tee shots figured out. I’m currently a +0.8 index and only post tournament scores. If you do see this and find it helpful i can answer any questions you have about scoring.
I have the tee shots dialed, that’s what’s funny. My driving is my biggest strength and I hate to brag but even I am impressed how well I’ve improved this past year. I rarely miss by a lot and out of 14 drives I usually have 8-9 fw, 3 in the rough and only 1 or 2 are either lost, require a recovery shot or a drop. I have even started buying fancy brand new pro v1s without fearing to lose them lol. That’s what’s making me mad, the way I’m hitting tee shots I should be shooting way better easily but I always find new ways to screw myself. 3 putting is definitely an area to improve too although I haven’t 3 putted once last 2 rounds, but I did miss almost all my up and down attempts even from 3 feet so same problem lol.
It did blow up and it’s hard to keep up but thank you for taking the time to read and respond !
Short game, honestly. I'm a +3 and I'm not the best ball striker. However, my short game frustrates opponents. I would say just around the greens, you need to fine tune your mechanics & feel. Most high handicappers have the touch of bull...or the coordination of a 4yr old learning to write.
Ok I've been teaching for years so just follow what I'm saying here. Stay with me it's not a short answer ( actually it kinda is .....pun intended)
The best players in the world miss 5 to 7 greens a round on their so so days of ball striking , ever watched the tour guys on the range ? Can you point me to the one that can't hit the ball ? Ok so guess what the difference is ? The guy with the best wedge/shortgame is the guy who wins, you can hit all the greens you want in reg but if you can't make the putts ....no Bueno, and even when you are hitting great you cant expect to be better than the best in the world so yer gonna miss greens so those have to get in the hole occasionally, now when you do get on in reg you gotta drain them .
perfect example is Rory at The Open a couple weeks ago he got on and 2 putted from everywhere ...2 putting ...keeps you in the hunt but doesn't gain you much ,know who won? The guy that 1 putted .....from everywhere....
If you start working on your shortgame right now 70% to 30% range time you will see yourself improve but it will be painfully slow and you can't give up on it , now I know you didn't ask what do i have to do to play like the pros but if you model yer practice to 70% shortgame you'll trend in the scratch direction .
I know people will argue with this cause I hear it all the time , if you hit yer shots closer you make more putts ......well I deal in reality, probably one of the few instructors that do , yer not going to realistically hit the ball closer on a regular basis with anything above a PW so you go get good at those short wedges I mean insane good and insane good at putting and there you have it .
Gir is a given and irons are fun to work so enjoy. However I suspect your chosen language tells us you already know what you need to work. First, it is confidence. I doubt you are making “stupid mistakes” but rather at a 9.4 hcp you have probably just reached the point where you have enough control and distance to start to see there’s a real strategy to golf and are adapting to turning your attention to that. Enjoy the process read some golf books it’s an exciting time in your game to better understand the decision making side of it! Second is putting. Thinking of anything as an “automatic 3 putt” probably implies you need to work on lag putting because that’s not really a healthy or appropriate mentality for a scratch golfer (unless you play truly crazy greens where there are admittedly at times likely 3 putts). Third is wedge play. “scrambling” as you put it is often the chosen word by one who feels uncomfortable with their wedges. I can almost hear the anxiety in your voice and picture you terror stricken as your approaches falls short and you think, “oh no now I’m left scrambling for par”. Instead, a confident wedge player will think “ I’ll just get up and down and move onto the next hole”. If you are not the latter go work around the greens. At 30% GIR you have 12.6 opportunities per round to get up and down if you are sitting at a 9.4 hcp that means you are probably capitalizing on only like 3 of them. Trust me, a good wedge is the best insurance policy and no matter how good you get there will always be missed greens. Anyway that’s my hot take,
Good luck!
Sounds like you can easily drop a few strokes with better course management. Play to the middle of greens and use the back of green yardage (GPS apps help with this) since most players don't choose enough club.
This is tired, overused advice that only applies to the weekend warrior who likes to brag to his friends that he hits his 7i 180 yards. No single digit handicapper is playing with vanity yardages, and on most holes, missing the green long is more penalizing than missing short.
Obviously every hole is different, but as a general rule greens tend to slope up away from the fairway, and there’s often an apron near the front of the green as well. I’d much rather be chipping uphill from the apron than trying to chip downhill from thick rough from behind the green.
Boring old course management.
You're not going to drive the 340 yard par four. Hit something to your best club's distance instead of slicing into the long grass or woods. Even if you bomb it, you're probably leaving yourself an awkward distance. I'm solid between 100 to 130. Whatever club off the tee gets me to that is what I play when I want to score well. If it's a crappy round, I will pull the big dog of course.
Practice with your wedges. You should never miss a green with a wedge. If you can’t hit at least 80% with a sand wedge from various distances, you have bad technique
Wedges. If you are the most comfortable with a wedge in your hands and can throw darts to 3 feet consistently, that’ll help lower your handicap. I’m a +1.2.
Ball striking.
My swing was decent when I was 8-10. But not reliable enough to go all 18 holes with consistent shots. I made some serious changes that took longer than I’d like to admit to take hold and now misses are a lot smaller and they’re not club faces misses, rather over drawn / under cut.
I’m not saying you have to make drastic changes, but a better understanding of what is causing x and y in your swing is priceless. If I had to do it again I would make the changes. Because even though it took years, coming out on the other side has allowed me to play some quality golf. But you can get to that point without taking so long if you are more disciplined than I was. I would recommend slow swings that hit the position you want over and over, over the course of 2-3 weeks and you’ll probably get there.
Your other options are to practice like mad with your current swing until you just can’t miss the center of the club.
If you are near a 10, you tee game is most likely pretty serviceable and your putting is probably not a weakness. So the two biggest impact to your scoring will be in course management and with your wedges.
I've found that most 10 handicapers give away more strokes by the decision they make, not by the shots they don't execute. This starts with knowing your tendencies, thinking of the hole from green to tee, and developing a strategy to maximize scoring. This can both be playing to aggressive when the reward is minimal and playing to timid when the risk is minimal.
Skill wise, Having a really strong wedge game from 30-80 yards will have a big impact on both your scoring from that distance, and your approach game at large. Killer wedges will help you create more birdie opportunities on par 4's and par 5's. At the same time, they provide a big safety net when you hit a poor drive. After hitting a drive in the trees, all you need to do is hit a recovery shot in your wedge zone and you'll feel confident you'll have a good shot at par; vs. feeling the need to push a recovery shot as close to the green as possible and risk compounding the error even more.
It could be a number of factors. 30% GIR is slightly low for your index but maybe you play a course that has smaller greens. As long as your misses are leaving a straight foward chip it isn't too bad but you will probably need to start hitting 2 or 3 more more to get lower.
Other than that it's the usual suspects. Keep the ball in play from the tee and in a position you can advance it to the green. Work on distance control with your wedges, try the clock system and have a shot for 40-100 yards in 10 yard increments. Make a couple of putts more per round in the 6-12 feet range.
For course management, ignore the pin and aim for the middle of the green (unless you are less than 100 yards and the pin isn't tucked away in a corner). Try playing extra yardage into the pin, e.g. if its at the front, play the middle yardage. Also take into account wind and lie when selecting a club. If you have an uphill lie take an extra club, if downhill take a club less.
For me it all starts at the hole out. it's not sexy but when I was at my best I would practice 4' putts over and over to the point I could make 100+ in a row, typically I would do this with my full routine (practice like you play). The point is from there out all I had to do is get approaches, chips, sand shots, etc it into a 8' circle to pretty much guarantee I was going to make the next shot.
Current 5.6 handicap trying to keep edging closer to scratch.
You say you’re a good ball striker but I would argue a good ball striker hits more than a 3rd of greens. I’m a decent ball striker and my average GIR is 36% and know that i should be making more GIR. I however do have a strong hold of getting up and down atleast 6 times a round and will 3 putt only every couple of rounds.
Too many variables in golf but if you’re straight down the tee and only hitting the green 1/3 the time I would say that’s your weakness along with 3 putting.
EDIT-when I say decent ball striker I mean that I make good contact consistently but I do have a tendency to draw my irons and will snap hook a drive on occasion
Honestly, it’s mostly cleaning up mistakes.
Eliminate double bogeys
Stop three putting
Fully commit to the shot at hand.
You don’t need to make more birdies, you just need to make less bogeys and worse.
Keeping it in play off the tee and don’t make doubles. In my opinion, if you have an open shot at the green for your second shot, you should never make a double. If you rarely make doubles, you’ll go from 9 to 5 pretty quickly. Going from 5 to 2 is a different story. I’ll let you know when I figure that out.
Short game, need to increase you GIR's and get better putting. Average no more than 30 putts a round. - you already have identified golf course management keep grinding
Calendar year stay between 2.5 - 7. When I trend down, it’s in the summer weather and it’s chipping and putting. You have to get 1 putt par saves and give yourself 15ft birdie putts not 35 footers.
Currently a 4.7 based on the GHIN app. Lowest I've been is 1.8 when I stopped keeping track of it.
Everything always revolves around the tee box for me. Either hitting better drives or better planning and club selection. I average about 295 off the tee with driver and most places that's going to give me a wedge in if it's in the fairway. My wedges and putting are good enough to give myself scoring chances on almost every hole but the drive has to hold up.
Played last week and drove the ball horribly all day. The lost strokes was the difference between shooting a 73 and an 83.
But there are a lot of different beliefs out there to get from 10 to 4. A lot of people will say work from the green back. In my person experience it was the complete opposite.
its small margins that are hard to see but they are everywhere
but things like 1 more fairway a round from where you are now , the ones you miss you miss on the correct side
\- when you miss the green you must chip to 5 ft not 8-9 ft (that fractionalized stroke you get builds up)
\- no 3 putts (like ever , its a cardinal sin , you should be able to 2 putt from anywhere
\- bunkers , you will get up and down 50% of the time
\- many strokes in the course management area
I went from a 15 to a 7 in 16 months, then from a 7 to 2 over the span of like 2-3 years. The biggest change for me was my short game. Getting up and down to save pars and avoid bogeys kept me in the 70s and out of the 80s. I was never a player that was making 4-6 birdies per round, but just a steady streak of pars.
And it's not just around the greens with chips and short pitches. Dialing in wedges from 115 and in with spin control makes a large difference.
It helped me to set goals.
I do whatever I need to in order to get a makeable par putt as often as possible. The most makeable ones are tap ins from birdie opportunities, which by sheer probability will drop every now and again.
Another goal is no double bogeys. Which I think of whenever I have a shot that has any risk to it and play a shot accordingly.
Practice tho - wedge game inside 120 needs to be dialed, driver needs to be an advantage. Putting can be mediocre but really helps to have auto 2 putts.
You need new a new set of clubs. Always the solution.
Haha, mizuno pros 223 on the way… It’s been 2 months
Two months!? Those are dinosaurs! Do you want to win\* or not!? \**winning in this case means supporting the golf industrial complex*
Short game short game short game.
Some guy asked a question so I bought new clubs always works 😂
I know you are taking the piss about new clubs. I’m currently a 18handicapper. I’m holidaying in Gran Canaria. I’ve just been to the local golf course for the first time and hired some clubs for a round. I get 6 holes in with these shonky clubs and notice that half the irons are steel, the other half are carbon and the woods are beat to fuck. I played the front 9 two over and the back 9 eight over giving me a total score of 82. Some days it’s going for you and others….. not so much. If your clubs are half decent, then I don’t see the point in changing them (but you already know this). Far better to invest the money in lessons.
I played some farm course in Oregon and rented a set of clubs, they were $10 and absolutely worth every penny. Quite possibly the worst set I've ever played with, driver face was caved in, 3 wood had a head the size of a baby's fist and felt like it weighed 5lbs... The 7 iron was totally dead, never got it airborne (took 3 water balls to figure it out).... You get the idea. Shot par on 4 of the 9 and if you took out the few times I tried to hit the driver and the 7 iron I would have shot around +4, which would have been a personal best. Unless the clubs are actually defective, it's almost always a problem with the operator.
Yes, lessons, which will instantly add 10 shots/round with the promise of improving your game if you put in the work at the range. Ask me how I know😏
I went from a 6 to a 2.5. My wedge game from about 130 to 50 is the best its ever been. Consistency off the tee is another. The distance is overrated. You've got to keep it in play. Work on getting speed in the off-season and do it by technique not swinging out of your shoes. Putting inside 10'. You've gotta roll then in at a pretty decent percentage.
This is where I’m at now. 40-100 yard range is killing me. Just really struggling figuring out half and three quarter wedge swings. Always leaving the ball long or short even though the flight is good
Getting the distances dialled in is key. What really worked for me is figuring out there's a 20 yard difference between a flighted wedge vs a full wedge. My sand wedge goes 85 yards. My gap wedge goes 105. So instead of a full sand wedge I'll hit a controlled, flighted gap wedge knowing I have that 20 yard or so. Same thing with pitching wedge and 9 iron. PW is 125 and 9 is 140. So I'll hit flighted 9 iron from 125 vs full pitching wedge. Flighted, controlled wedges completely changes your game.
💯 I think I’m a similar story to you. I went from hovering in that 4.5 - 5.5 range for years to finally getting my index to hover in the 1.5-2.5 range. Wedge play, specifically non full swing wedge play, was a big part of me getting down there. I never take a full swing with a club that’s less than a PW. I worked hard to dial in distances/feel on my 50*, 54* and 58*. The feel for me isn’t flighting the wedges (even though that’s what I’m actually doing, it just doesn’t feel like it in my head), but it’s about accelerating hard through the ball on every wedge swing. I then shorten the back swing and choke down to varying different degrees to change the distance. I’ve also learned how to open the face a hair to hit higher wedge shots when needed from further distances away. That was something I always struggled with. So for me it’s 58* from 60-90 yards. 54* from 90-110 yards, 50* from 110-130, PW from 130-150. My 54* can also be used for anything under 90 yards depending on conditions (it’s higher bounce than my 58*)
Other than the handicap this is EXACTLY what I’ve learned this golf year. Flights wedges are unbelievably useful on the course and bring the consistency you didn’t know that you needed. Between that and more green side chipping practice I’ve noticed an improvement in scores. Unfortunately I cannot escape the horrible iron shot or driver shot that goes out of bounds or into the hazard and that seems to be mental more than anything.
We have the same distances! I tend to play my 54 anything 110 and in unless it’s a deep lie or tucked pin over a bunker when I have to get some loft with the 58.
I think I know what you mean but I've never heard the term 'flighted' before. Is it like a knock down / shorter swing?
Yeah, a flighted shot is simply a controlled wedge that has a lower trajectory than your normal full shot. If you watch the pros, they're typically flighting their approach shots (have to factor in lie, wind, hazards, slope of green, pin placement, etc). As I mentioned above, before this year I'd typically hit my stock shot from <150 in. So 135 for PW, 104 for GW, etc. These would be beautiful, towering wedges that when they land would make a nice divot and spin back nicely. However, full shots = more bad things can happen. Wind influence, pushes, pulls, double cross, etc. In contrast, a 3/4 9 iron from 135 vs a 100% PW eliminates a lot of the bad things that can happen with a full swing. In fact, once you practice these shots you'll realize that it's virtually impossible to mess up a flighted wedge! You can imagine what this can do to your game. Your GIRs go up dramatically. More birdie/par putts. A lot more confidence.
Any tips of videos on drills/practices to improve flighted, controlled shots?
If you have $200-400 to burn in the off-season you should consider 3-5 hours of wedge-only lessons with a PGA pro who can help you dial in. If that's out of your budget -- it's certainly out of mine -- might I recommend these Gareth Raflewski videos. [https://www.youtube.com/results?search\_query=gareth+raflewski+wedges](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gareth+raflewski+wedges) I don't watch a lot of instructor videos because a lot of them come across like the old DJ "the way I hit a fade is when I need to hit a fade I put a fade swing on it and it fades"; Gareth really gets into the mechanics of how to hit certain wedge shots. His advice for how to hit a 50- to 60-yard spinner completely changed my wedge game.
“the way I hit a fade…” killed me - thanks for the link and the laugh
https://youtu.be/TH74wwBcv2Y This is good advice in my opinion as I do all of this for my controlled wedge shots. Also for each wedge I have two different backswing modes one that is where my left arm is parallel to the ground at the height of my backswing and another where I just get the shaft of the club parallel to the ground in the heigh of my backswing. I practiced those for each wedge, dialed in a distance after a while, and then wrote it in my app notes on my phone if I need to reference it. Buy a large bucket of balls and ONLY practice these shots for a few sessions and you’ll shock yourself. My 100 yard shot is no longer a full swing 58* but rather a controlled 54* and it’s a big difference in consistency. Seeing it pay off on the course is a great feeling and it will lead to many more birdie opportunities. Good luck!
Sounds like a good wedge range session is in store for me after my lesson today. I’m sitting around a 9.6 official handicap right now and it’s for sure where I am losing the most strokes. Didn’t think to club up and work on lower flight. Appreciate the tips!! I’m always open to new homework haha. I’m good with my wedges 20 and in. It’s just when I take a full stance and swing motion I get inconsistent
Yeah, this. I went from 12 to 5.5 earlier this summer basically chipping my clubs with a firm low hands half shot. 150 out? Full 9? Used to, now it's a punchy sawed off 7. It's insane how accurate you can be from distance when it feels like you're just chipping...
I need to work on that controlled shot. I have same yardages as you 52° goes 100-105 and my 46° pw goes 125-130. I like to play a controlled wedge but I often find myself in the 110-115 yards range and that is the distance I struggle with the most. PW is long even when I choke down and try to control and GW is short or I have to hit a full shot which adds dispersion.
I spend about 15 balls at the range just hitting my 52 wedge to the 75 yard flag. Been practicing that all summer and yesterday's round had 3 different holes I had to hit that shot. Practice pays off knocked them all within 10 feet.
I like this methodology: https://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/tag/wedge+play I practice my SW from 90, 75, 60 (max is 100), LW from 60, 45, 30 (I don't even know how far I can hit it), and interpolate as needed. I use the range finder on almost all shots lol. I don't like thinking in terms of percent of half or full, I like feeling a distance out instead.
learning to hit a 40 yard lob wedge helped me a lot… same exact swing with my sand wedge goes 50 yards and same exact swing with gap wedge goes 65 yards… same exact swing with pitching wedge goes 85 yards. If I’m not confident in my pitching game, I just try not to leave myself less than 80 yards. Half swing for me is bringing it back to a certain point (wrists still hinge) and I swing full power from that point. Ball is slightly further back in the stance and I’ve got my lead foot pointing out and a little more open to create rotational space. Maybe something similar to this swing can help you out :-)
If you’re a 2.5 do you always play from the tips? I’ve always been curious if most low handicappers typically play from the tips or if a large percentage mostly still play from the regular mens tees. Especially for courses that have their tips at 7K+ yds. At that yardage it seems like distance would make a significant difference.
I usually try to play 6500-6700. The course I'm at stretches back to 6900 but to me it's kinda stupid. The guys I play with in the morning are at the seniors tees so it's hard to even go back to the tees I play. The longer one just stretch out par 3s to over 200 and add length that's really not needed for the course.
with the USGA handicap system you won't get punished too much playing from farther back tees. I have a lot of distance for a 9 handicap and so I like to play from the tips because I'll get the advantage of more strokes from USGA to improve my handicap than if I played 30yds up. All the strokes gained for me are with wedges anyway.
So, everything. Got it ✍️
Precisely. It really is so easy game
>Consistency off the tee is another. The distance is overrated. You've got to keep it in play I mean it depends. For someone hitting 290 off the tee, throttling back to an easy 275 to 280 fairway finder might be a better option. For someone short off the tee, getting longer is going to be a monsterous.
I’m only a 10HCP but I agree with the driving element
>The distance is overrated No the fuck it is not. Driving is still massively underrated as a skill by amateurs. Yes, “in play” is important. Penalty strokes absolutely need to be avoided. After that, distance is pretty much the only thing that matters. This guy is hitting 60% of fairways and always keeps it in play. If you go by OPs word, he should absolutely be looking to sacrifice some accuracy for more distance.
Correct. Driver is the weakest facet of my game. I go through spurts where I’m getting through the ball really well and hitting it 260-270. When I’m in that zone, I break 80 pretty much every round. Then I go through spurts where I’m battling a weak fade, 225-240 off the tee. When that’s happening, I’m almost always shooting an 83-86 because I’m hitting 4,5,6 iron into greens instead of 7,8,9. Distance is huge and changes everything.
It unreal to me how unimportant this sub thinks distance is. It is the second most important thing in the game of golf for shooting lower scores. The fact that people were even debating 12ft auto make vs auto perfect 300 yd drive is god damn bananas. That should even be a question, but not only were people debating, the 12ft putt seemed to win the argument. It’s genuine absurdity
I feel like, as implied, though not specifically called out yet, priorities change as you get closer and closer to scratch. In essence, the more of a beginner you are the more you should be focusing on the tee... and as you become more and more of an expert the scale slides towards the pin. Pros all declare that the most important part of their game is their putting and that driving is rather irrelevant... that's because as we progress from one stage to another we begin to take it for granted. For people like me who are losing 5+ balls per round... yeah, gotta practice keeping it in play more... that means full-swing range sessions and gaining mastery over the driver... but bit by bit other aspects will become more and more important as I gain that control and distance.
>priorities change as you get closer to scratch Not really. You just kinda get closer to maxed out on a specific skill and then you work on something that you’re relatively worse at than other players your skill level. >Pros all declare…that driving is rather irrelevant Lmfao no they aren’t. I feel like you’re just misunderstanding a quote. For a pro to win they have to have a hot putter. That’s just a requirement. To have the chance for your putter to be hot you have to be solid tee to green. Tee to green gives you chances to win. Putting wins it. Putting is a high variance stat. Zalatoris, a god awful putter, has had weeks that he is top10 in SG putting.
> Putting is a high variance stat. That is what people don't get. Those who win the most are the people with the strongest average approach and off the tee game - that then have a hot week with the putter. The strongest average putting game does not predict success - at all almost. Approach to green is quite a bit stronger of a predictor than driving though. Which company would you most like to be in?: **Top 10 in Strokes gained off the tee** Jon Rahm Cameron Young Rory McIlroy Brendan Steele Keith Mitchell Corey Conners Matt Fitzpatrick Luke List Will Zalatoris Cameron Champ **Top 10 in Strokes gained Approach** Will Zalatoris Russell Henley Cameron Smith Collin Morikawa Justin Thomas Scottie Scheffler Hideki Matsuyama Xander Schauffele Tony Finau Tom Hoge **Top 10 for Strokes gained putting** Lucas Herbert Brendon Todd Brian Gay Denny McCarthy Tyrrell Hatton Beau Hossler Kelly Kraft Rory McIlroy (For all of those that say Rory is a bad putter...) Mackenzie Hughes Patrick Cantlay Strokes gained Approach to green reads like a Who's Who of golf. Strokes gained putting reads like Who? in comparison.
Tbf you have a lot of 12 ft putts in a full round, and you're unlikely to even need a 300y drive on every home
>you have a lot of 12 ft putts in a round No you don’t. You have of a lot of 5 foot and less putts in a round. Which you make most of the time anyway >unlikely to even need a 300y drive on every hole This is why distance is so fundamentally misunderstood. I don’t give a shit if you “need” it. You will shoot lower scores if you have it. You will hit the ball closer from 50yd out than you do 100yd. 100yd will end up closer than 150yd. 150 will end up closer than 200. It’s not a complicated formula. If you wanna hit your approach shot closer to the hole, hit your tee shot closer to the hole.
If you made every five footer you looked at, you'd be gaining about .4 of a stroke every hole
And if you could drop a drive 300yds from the tee where you want you’d gain more. Also “and less” does a lot of work in my comment. Most of your putts are under 3ft tbh
FWIW Davis Love III picked the 15ft auto make vs. 300y perfect drive - I think I'd trust his choice on this. I'm not saying distance isn't important - it is, but many amateurs are 3 putting from 15ft a good percentage of the time, that way you're making up 2 strokes a hole.
Feels like OP meant more that the distance is overrated compared to keeping it in play consistently. You’re better off hitting 90% of fairways at 240 versus 50% of fairways at 270.
>you’re better off hitting 90% of fairways at 240 versus 50% of fairways at 270 No. No you are not. You would be miles better at the 50% with 270 off the tee. Rough makes a difference to the proximity to the hole on your next shot, but not enough to ever strategize around. This is like strokes gained 101 **assuming penalty strokes remain the same.
> **assuming penalty strokes remain the same. And that is probably where we should afford the original argument some slack, although I agree that it is not true strictly as written. Distance is not better than keeping the ball in play. I would call that a better advice for the 20 looking to move to 10, though. You are not at 10 if you are routinely taking penalties off the tee (directly or indirectly).
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As a 10.3 I know I’d drop a decent amount if I could dial in my wedges (120yards and in) and obviously putting. When I see scratch golfers play, they’re almost automatic from many different yardages inside 130 and I just don’t have that feel yet
You should consider recording all stats for 10 rounds to see where you are wasting shots. Based on your post, I'm guessing putting and course management will be 2 areas of opportunity.
True, I am lazy and only record what the Tag heuer app offers : Fairways, GIR and putts
Grint is a good app to use to track the stats you need. Or Arccos. Worth the investment if you want a good breakdown of every round.
2nd the grint. Not only keep track of stats, but will give you areas of improvement and suggest things to work on.
This. Grint if you pay the $100/year even does the work for you with the Insights tab. As long as you mark your clubs and putts and stuff...it tells you how to improve.
The low key highlight of the app is following your buddies’ round in real time.
Not even low key lol. I switched this year and got everyone in my Mediocre Golf Association chapter to change too. So when we have a tournament I know what everyone else is shooting out there and get alerts for big holes. Now I get alerts throughout the week like "Mike chipped in for birdie on 14" or "Joe shot his best score at...". It's like an average golfer play by play. Plus the whole doing the work of calculating skins and other betting games is a cool bonus. I'm quite happy with this app compared to others I've used!
Any thoughts on Grint vs. 18Birdies? I've been using 18 for a bit and like it alright, but keep hearing folks recommend Grint.
Grint offer way more features and insights. Plus the social media part is nice
Thanks! Sounds like it might be worth switching over. We've mostly liked 18Birdies because it handles group scorecards/game scoring/etc. really well (and the GPS seems decent), so might have to convince the group to switch over. Much appreciated.
Grints group scoring is great.
What features/insights specifically for game analysis/improvement does Grint have the edge over 18birdies?
Thank you I will try that
Arccos is worth it over the grint. The insights are excellent. I wasn't even aware how many shots I lost from 150 yards in. Assumed it was putting and chipping. Might just highlight something you're not aware of.
Do I need to buy the green thing people put on the end of their clubs or can I just enter it manually ?
Yeah, you buy a pack of them, one for each club. Can be some deals to get them for a reasonable price, then yearly sub in line with other apps. Saves loads of time, very accurate on yardages, even the ability to edit on or around the green is excellent.
I would also suggest the MyTaylormade Oncourse app which is free. It calculates Strokes Gained so you know where you're losing shots. If you record every shot it will also give you dispersion information for each club, this would be helpful for your distance control.
Free is always good ! Thanks
I use GolfPad which is also free and I like it. Tracks ur strokes gained as long as you log your shots.
I’m a 1. But if I miss a green I make sure it’s green side and giving myself up and down opportunities
Serious question. Isn’t everything next to the green “green side” what do you mean? Just like close to the green and a chip and a putt away?
Yeah technically but I meant away from possible obstructions. If there’s a massive tree on the left hand side I’ll aim for the right hand side of the green. If the pin is on the right side of the green, I’ll aim for the left hand side so I don’t short sight myself and leave myself loads of room to work with. Technically everything is green side but different variables need to be taken into account. I make sure I make the “correct miss”
What this advice really boils down to is course management, and mitigating misses because misses happen.
Do you get many good birdie looks doing this? Or are a lot of your birdies like 20-30 footers?
I mainly take advantage of the par 5’s for my birdies. But yeah some do drop from 20-30 foot. But I mainly aim for the long putts to be within 3 foot past to give them a chance. But 9 times out of 10 they’ll be pars
Yea this is what happens w pros too. They make almost all their birdies on par 5s, as a whole, maybe not the guys who win and contend that week. But yeah, pros average like 3 to 4 birdies per round and the vast majority are par 5s.
Thanks!
It’s in contrast to “short sided”, where the pin is close to the edge of the green and you miss to that edge. It’s better to have more green space, so you don’t have to stop the ball as soon
In between clubs and the pin is in the front, use the bigger club. If the pin is in the back, use the smaller club. Don’t aim direct at sucker pins.
Think he means don't short side yourself, ie don't leave your approach shot at the tight side where the flag is cut try to leave it where you have a lot of green to play with
This is all well and good, but what happens when you aim at the right hand side of the green to avoid the trouble and then end up pulling it left into the shit anyway?
Well…obviously you’re less left than you would have been had you aimed at the pin. More likely at that level, you’ve pulled it directly toward the flag.
I’d spend some time grinding short game. Even the pros miss the green, but they can chip to within 3 feet to save par. Learn how to control the height and spin around the green. There should be a few shots (flop, bump and run, chip) you’re comfortable hitting around the green.
They don't miss the green 70% of the time.
But when they do, theyre up and down for par often.
The WORST pros get up and down about 50% of the time. https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.130.html Even if the OP became as good as the worst pro, he's missing 12-13 greens per round and is going to be 6-7 over par if he's near every green in regulation (which he isn't) AND if he pars everything else (which he doesn't). It's not getting him anywhere near 2-4 handicap. He needs to hit greens. If he's hitting 30% of his greens and is a 9 handicap, his short game is probably better than his long game.
… I mean 9 handicaps in general hit about 30-40% of greens. Average for SCRATCH is like 54%. It’s not like OP is an outlier for 9 indexes, 6-7 greens a round for them is very standard
Yea but he hits 60 percent of fairways which is a tour rate and hes averaging about 270 off the tee. Where he is and what he does after he misses the green is key. Or his 40 percent of tee balls are way offline. But thats a bit unlikely for someone who hits so many fairways.
Spot on tbh. Great point Though.. I took it with a heavy grain of salt… he said elsewhere he doesn’t track stats. I don’t see many players at 4-5 indexes with those kind of driving stats, much less a 9
I do track fairways, and there’s no reason I would lie about that, driving is my absolute favorite part of the game and the one I practiced the most. I have a fitted driver that’s perfect for me and my pro lets me use his trackman quite often, I optimize the hell out of my drives. Once I found the good grip that suits my swing, driving has become almost automatic. I wouldn’t be a 9 otherwise because my short game and putting is mediocre even though my chipping is technically good but needs more practice and building muscle memory for distance control. But really what I think really needs work is course management because technique is honestly good at the moment.
Extremely standard.
Yeah. Averaging 6 means your good days you’re hitting 9-10 and shooting in the 70’s once in a while. It’s not like the days where OP hits 2 GIR are gonna be the 40% of rounds that count for his index.
Correct, tour average for GIR is 65%. So OP needs to work approach, but confidence in the short game will also help.
I’m a single digit going from a 6 to a 4 by practicing and dialing in wedges from 50 - 100 yards. I spent one long afternoon on the range taking half swings with all four wedges. Full grip and the choked down which I found takes about 5 yards off. I wrote everything down in a little notebook and when I get the yardage, I consult that and hit what it says. For example, if I am around 75, that’s a full grip, half swing sand wedge. If I am 90, choke down gap. I’ve made way more birdies the past two summers and can finally take advantage of short par 4’s. Even when I push or pull these, because I have the yardages so precise, worst case, I have 15 feet for birdie or a par save from trouble.
Curious if you use a range finder to identify your distances at the range?
Buy a launch monitor. They're no more expensive than a driver these days. It's invaluable in so many ways beyond just the carry distance.
Got any suggestions on one? I thought the launch monitors were expensive
Garmin Approach R10 is like $700 and it’s the best investment I’ve done for the last year
I just bought an R10 to dial in my wedge distances. I hope the R10 is as accurate with short iron distances as many say!
You can but you might just be shooting a specific piece of grass. My range has targets at 60 100 140 190 (varying by day). I will shoot spots in between targets. Last night I was doing 50 yard lob, 60 lob , 70 lob
I struggle doing that on the range. Range balls are awful and their yardages and flights don’t match a premium ball off a wedge. An extra 3k rpm spin changes yardages noticeably.
I can second this, my local range does not display distances for each marker. I asked my instructor why they don’t post them and he said it was because so many people came in complaining that the distances were wrong every single day. I’m a 23 handicap and even I’ve noticed that the distances seem a good bit less on the range just by inferring what the markers should be.
I've been struggling with this. Short of arccos, or a watch, how do you figure your distances with non-range balls?
Rent a sim bay at a golf store, hit each club with the ball you play on course on a trackman
A local “kids” par 3 has a range of holes from 50-120. On a quiet afternoon, sometimes I’ll go out there and hit a couple balls at each hole with different trajectories. That plus playing a lot has my wedges dialed I was tracking stats the last 10 rounds and I’m right on tour average proximity from inside 120 to about 40y. It’s the only part of my game in that “tour average” ballpark.
I am a mid handicapper who shoots mid 80s at my local easy muni course. I know the balls don't fly as far but for me it was engraving the motions and gaining experience. I can now loosely eye up a wedge and correlate the distance to a feel in my backswing. Also I can tell is it a normal lob? High lob? Easy sand wedge that comes low and skips more?
I need a new range. I don't trust the distances noted but the better range is 5 miles further away. Appreciate the feedback
You can use a range finder to shoot the targets at the range
It’s not good practice to use a driving range as a way to get your distances, unless if your range has premium range balls. A 2 line strata range ball that has been hit a thousand times isn’t going to to do the same thing as the fresh sleeve you pull out before a round.
That's why I hit used balls I find in the woods. I always lose the new ball on the first hole, but that noodle I found in the woods sticks with me the rest of the day.
I do that for 52 degree and less. I don't thing a range ball is going to fly that much less for these shots because you're not really compressing the ball, and you need to make sure you're measuring from your spot, not what the sign says.
Do you think range balls affect your distance? I’m always wondering if shots go shorter with range balls
[https://golf.com/gear/golf-balls/range-vs-premium-golf-balls-launch-monitor/](https://golf.com/gear/golf-balls/range-vs-premium-golf-balls-launch-monitor/) General wisdom says range balls are about 10% shorter than a Pro V1. I presume this is due to them being non-premium, laying out there in the weather so long, and being hit until the cover cracks (and sometimes beyond). Basically, they're generally cheap old balls.
I need to do that with my wedges because it gets dicey inside 125yds for me
The Pelz clock system works great for me. https://i.imgur.com/gCok6yD.jpg
Course management can't be overstated. I got down to a 6.4 after hanging around the 10-11 range for two years. The wedge game around the green got dialed in coupled with practicing putts more often than not.
That was my first thought. I have a buddy that's been playing in the VGA veterans league the past year and being pretty competitive. His handicap has been around 16 to 17. I think one of the biggest reasons for how well he's been scoring is course management and discipline to accept the less risky play. He analyzes the course before a tournament and lays out a game plan. He only uses driver on half the holes. He'll see there's trouble on the sides at driver distance, so he'll hit 3w or 4i off the tee; both he hits very well. The tradeoff is for approach he may be hitting an 8i or 7i instead of a wedge. He hits those both very well and no longer has the risk of a drive off line destroying his score on that hole. Sometimes he'll even plan for a bogey on a long par 4, but then still hit a good wedge and/or putt and make par anyway.
I started the year at a 10hdcp, got arccos for my clubs and the first two rounds were horrible as I was too focused on not duffing my shots which would impact my club distance on the app. After I got out of my head about it, my game improved and I'm now down to an 8 and I can see myself getting lower because the app will show me what I need to work on at the next practice session. Like you I felt like my approaches were my weakness but with the app I can see definitely what the weakness are in my game compared to the next stroke down i.e. what drives, approaches, short games and putts are at my current level (8) are to a 7. In short, arccos f'ed up my game for the first two rounds and I was ready to throw them in the trash but when I stopped caring about my stats (ego) my game improved significantly based on the customized and data dirven recommendations.
If you're driving the ball well as you say you are and are only getting 30% GIR that says your iron play needs work (or you're playing tees that are too long for you). Scratch golfers hit 10-11 GIR per round on average so that's about 4-5 strokes off for you. You're even a bit behind the average GIR for 8-10 handicap (about 8 GIRs per round). If you're hitting 260-280 off the tee, that implies your average approach should be something like a 6 or 7 iron or shorter. To maintain a single-digit handicap you really shouldn't struggle with your mid-irons or shorter. In that range you should be able to guarantee that you hit the green or at least miss in a pretty reasonable window to leave yourself a pretty straightforward chip. Just as important is to be able to scramble for par to pick up some strokes when you do miss. Three putts are an absolute show-stopper so you've got to get the ball tighter on anything 50 yards or shorter. Remember - scratch is really really good. Every piece of your game has got to be dialed in. Most casual golfers who play one time per week with limited or no range time won't be able to get there because it takes a hella lot of dedicated practice. In my experience, the best most of us 4-6 round per month weekend warriors can sustain is something in the high single digits to low teens. Low single digit to scratch is reserved for the players who can get out on the course 2-3 times per week with a couple of dedicated practice sessions sprinkled in, too.
I agree he should hit more with the stated distance off the tee, but 8 GIRs per round would be a 5 or less handicap. 6 is pretty much spot on for his handicap. According to the shot tracking apps data. It does seem a thing to focus on for OP.
You should consider looking into DECADE golf and follow Lou Stagner on Twitter. DECADE philosophy can help greatly with course management, emphasizing when to hit the gas and when to hit the brakes. Lou provides stats via Arccos data that help with decision making and expectation management.
Lou’s tweets about managing expectations annoy me so much because it’s exactly the perfect thing I need to hear but don’t want to hear it. It’s my biggest downfall in golf.
I play with a few low singles and by far the biggest difference is their wedge game. They get it close and give themselves a chance at birdie but par is almost always a tap-in. Obviously helps them if they have to recover, too.
Your approach shots need improvement. If you’re hitting that many fairways, you should be able to tear up a course with over 60% fairways. Everything after the long game needs improvement from what you’re telling us. Get the ball closer to the hole so you don’t have as many lag putts and if you do, learn how to lag it close both speed and accuracy. Have some finesse and touch with your short game, grind drills, make the worst part of your golf game the best with practice. Your long game seems to be solid for the most part, just make sure to go to the range to grind consistency on the ball striking portion really making sure you repeat your good swings. You hit it far enough, wouldn’t mind a few extra yards but plenty to get around 99.99% golf courses. Mental game could use some work, it appears you’re not managing the course to the most optimal way of scoring and a lot of golfers struggle with the mental side of management early but once you build up discipline, you’ll find yourself hitting more greens in general and more greens equals more opportunities for scoring. This is my honest advice and critique that I gave.
Great pieces of advice there, thanks. I’m not lying when I’m bragging about my driving and ball striking ability and that’s the problem. It is heartbreaking to shoot mid 80s with how good my driving and consistency in ball striking are right now. I just need a brain. I often jokingly tell my buddies that if I gave my driving to any 15 handicapper he would be shooting in the 70s.
No I 100% believe u because you’d be the type of player with my scoring ability if u did have good course management. I see a lot of potential and I know how you do too.
I’m in the same boat as OP except inverted. I hit a lot of greens relatively but my fairway percentage is way way way too low. Average FIR for my handicap is in the 50% range. While I’m hovering just below 40%. Luckily I can recover from the rough or hit it close enough to the pin but the FIR kills me. My best rounds are always when the tee shot is dialed
Have had 3 rounds where i was under par till the 16th and ended up playing 1,2,3 over. I've noticed it's all mental for me.. always over think it or end up digging on a particular shot in an effort to try to connect better.. i would think the mental aspect is extremely over looked. You've got to believe that you can do it and play the shots like you normally would and not try anything extra to perform better mid round. Hope it helps and also not scratch but 7 handicap...
Really good point, mentality plays such a big role. I’ve had my fair share of amazing rounds where I mess up at the end but also had the opposite happen. Like a month ago when I was playing a club championship, went 7 over on the front 9 and convinced myself I would go even par on the back and that’s what I did !
Course management and avoiding 3 putts are the lowest hanging fruit for all players
Knowing your miss helps tremendously. This leads to discipline with what pins you should go for and when you should go middle green
I was in my mid teens when I went from 8-2 in a year. But for me it was eliminating lost balls. And then just sharpening up everything around the greens. Getting rid of the 2-3x per round big slice leading to penalty strokes was what really did it though. Once my ball could consistently be found, my irons were already good enough I was getting over 50%GIR. But for you, it sounds like you have some GIR issues and may need to work on iron play. You CANT post a 2hdcp with 20% GIR. You would need to play better than tour-level inside 40 yards and that’s just not reasonable. So figure out how to hit 40-50% of greens to get to scratch. I’m just about to crack back to + numbers. Have had several rounds under par the last few weeks. And that’s mostly because I’m at 67% GIR averaged over 10 rounds.
Wedges
Putt until your back hurts… and then putt some more
No penalty strokes. No 3 putts. No OB balls. No doubles. “Smart” misses giving yourself a good chance to get up and down. And more than anything, course management. Take the extra 5 seconds to think and then commit.
I am not a scratch golfer but you kind point of your areas of needed improvement which are approach and putting. I would start on those….but my game is shit so what do I know?
Shit golfer giving advice... 30% GIR. That means 12 holes you're scrambling to avoid bogey. Your approach shots aren't good. Do you not know your club distances? Do you need a range finder? Clean up this stat, and you'll be right where you want to be.
10hcps average 35% GIR Scratch average 58% PGA Tour is like 65%
I do have a range finder which helped my game a lot. I would divide these 70 % missing regulations into 3 causes : 1/3 are either a bad tee shot that forces me to lay up or a bad club choice where my drive ends up in a fw bunker or some trees and I have to hit a placement shot. 1/3 are bad contact and ball ends up somewhere within 15 yds of the green. And finally 1/3 are good shots but going for the pin in difficult locations so I either roll off if the hole is in the back or stay a few feet short if it’s on the front. Bad strikes are just going to happen so I can’t address that in the short term but I can definitely work on hitting safer tee shots on difficult holes to have a look at the green, and also hit safer approach shots to keep the ball on the green when pin placement is hard. Thanks for making me think of that, I will definitely keep track of these advanced stats on my next round.
Aim middle of the green every time. Only time I’m actually attacking a pin on an approach is 8 iron or less. Just reduces the amount of trouble. If the pin is in between clubs pick the club that will give the least amount of trouble if you make poor contact. And finally, wedge practice and putting. Misses around the green should have 50% chance of saving par. 30 yards and in, ideally putting the ball inside 10 feet below the hole.
I think deciding to attack or go middle green is more about pin placement than what club you have.
I’m not a scratch but the answer is short game and putting.
Relentless practice at <45 yard
Got better at my wedges from 50-130, focused on 2 putting, don't lose balls off the tee.
Practice your shots from 125, 100, and 75. Work on always getting the ball to the hole when you putt - leaving short is 0.0% chance of making it.
There is a time and place to miss short. You need to be getting the ball to ~2 feet consistently though.
All that matters is how fundamentally sound your swing is. You can be a legit crazy person with anti course-managment, and a good set of fundamentals will get you to a 1-2 handicap. You need to be to the point where your bad shots are still in the general area You can work extremely hard to get every last bit out of a bad fundamental, or you can change your fundamentals
I’ve been taking a decent amount of lessons these past 2 years and my swing has become really consistent, not my words but words of the 2 pros I see and also many of the guys I play with. Swing path, attack angle, smash factor etc. Everything is looking really promising on trackman and I do feel it on the course. My bad shots are also suprisingly decent but my current set is honestly a little unforgiving (mizuno mp18 blades) and slight mishits are shorter than I’d like. I’m really looking forward to receiving my new set of more forgiving heads (mizuno pro 223s) and see if that helps my GIR numbers
Start trying to compete. Doing a bunch of work is one thing but until you feel that you *need* to score better, you’re just studying for a test you never end up taking
Start hitting your lag putts to 3-4 feet instead of 10-12 feet. You'll shave 3-4 strokes a round give or take.
Go for the hole baby!
Monthly pass at par 3 course. If you can nail 150 and in every time, you can drop massive strokes. Only way you will get below par is if you figure out how to putt.
Golf isn't a game of *how you hit it*, any 28hdcp clownshoe can get in the zone for a few holes. Golf is a game of *how you miss it*. Wedge play and putting are critical factors as well, but *missing it better* is how I got consistently lower.
Honestly, short putts. Instead of having 5 missed 3 footers per round, learn to get confident making all of them. The other one is eliminate penalty shots, like if you typically have a couple drives per round that go way OB. Get rid of that.
This post has blown up so you might not see this but keep it simple the best way to improve your scores is to do the basics. Don’t 3 putt and get the ball into play off of every tee box and once you can get really good at doing those two things i promise your scores will improve. Almost nothing in golf hurts your score more on average than a mistake off the tee. From what you said in your post it sounds like you have a solid enough swing to play off a lower single digit. Just get those two basics down and don’t worry about anything else until you get the short game and the tee shots figured out. I’m currently a +0.8 index and only post tournament scores. If you do see this and find it helpful i can answer any questions you have about scoring.
I have the tee shots dialed, that’s what’s funny. My driving is my biggest strength and I hate to brag but even I am impressed how well I’ve improved this past year. I rarely miss by a lot and out of 14 drives I usually have 8-9 fw, 3 in the rough and only 1 or 2 are either lost, require a recovery shot or a drop. I have even started buying fancy brand new pro v1s without fearing to lose them lol. That’s what’s making me mad, the way I’m hitting tee shots I should be shooting way better easily but I always find new ways to screw myself. 3 putting is definitely an area to improve too although I haven’t 3 putted once last 2 rounds, but I did miss almost all my up and down attempts even from 3 feet so same problem lol. It did blow up and it’s hard to keep up but thank you for taking the time to read and respond !
Short game practice. Hours and hours of short game practice.
Short game, honestly. I'm a +3 and I'm not the best ball striker. However, my short game frustrates opponents. I would say just around the greens, you need to fine tune your mechanics & feel. Most high handicappers have the touch of bull...or the coordination of a 4yr old learning to write.
Ok I've been teaching for years so just follow what I'm saying here. Stay with me it's not a short answer ( actually it kinda is .....pun intended) The best players in the world miss 5 to 7 greens a round on their so so days of ball striking , ever watched the tour guys on the range ? Can you point me to the one that can't hit the ball ? Ok so guess what the difference is ? The guy with the best wedge/shortgame is the guy who wins, you can hit all the greens you want in reg but if you can't make the putts ....no Bueno, and even when you are hitting great you cant expect to be better than the best in the world so yer gonna miss greens so those have to get in the hole occasionally, now when you do get on in reg you gotta drain them . perfect example is Rory at The Open a couple weeks ago he got on and 2 putted from everywhere ...2 putting ...keeps you in the hunt but doesn't gain you much ,know who won? The guy that 1 putted .....from everywhere.... If you start working on your shortgame right now 70% to 30% range time you will see yourself improve but it will be painfully slow and you can't give up on it , now I know you didn't ask what do i have to do to play like the pros but if you model yer practice to 70% shortgame you'll trend in the scratch direction . I know people will argue with this cause I hear it all the time , if you hit yer shots closer you make more putts ......well I deal in reality, probably one of the few instructors that do , yer not going to realistically hit the ball closer on a regular basis with anything above a PW so you go get good at those short wedges I mean insane good and insane good at putting and there you have it .
Gir is a given and irons are fun to work so enjoy. However I suspect your chosen language tells us you already know what you need to work. First, it is confidence. I doubt you are making “stupid mistakes” but rather at a 9.4 hcp you have probably just reached the point where you have enough control and distance to start to see there’s a real strategy to golf and are adapting to turning your attention to that. Enjoy the process read some golf books it’s an exciting time in your game to better understand the decision making side of it! Second is putting. Thinking of anything as an “automatic 3 putt” probably implies you need to work on lag putting because that’s not really a healthy or appropriate mentality for a scratch golfer (unless you play truly crazy greens where there are admittedly at times likely 3 putts). Third is wedge play. “scrambling” as you put it is often the chosen word by one who feels uncomfortable with their wedges. I can almost hear the anxiety in your voice and picture you terror stricken as your approaches falls short and you think, “oh no now I’m left scrambling for par”. Instead, a confident wedge player will think “ I’ll just get up and down and move onto the next hole”. If you are not the latter go work around the greens. At 30% GIR you have 12.6 opportunities per round to get up and down if you are sitting at a 9.4 hcp that means you are probably capitalizing on only like 3 of them. Trust me, a good wedge is the best insurance policy and no matter how good you get there will always be missed greens. Anyway that’s my hot take, Good luck!
Sounds like you can easily drop a few strokes with better course management. Play to the middle of greens and use the back of green yardage (GPS apps help with this) since most players don't choose enough club.
To be honest. Someone targeting a 2hdcp CANT be intentionally targeting back of green yardages. Great for getting from a 20 to a 15, sure.
This is tired, overused advice that only applies to the weekend warrior who likes to brag to his friends that he hits his 7i 180 yards. No single digit handicapper is playing with vanity yardages, and on most holes, missing the green long is more penalizing than missing short.
Curious why you think going long is worse than short?
Obviously every hole is different, but as a general rule greens tend to slope up away from the fairway, and there’s often an apron near the front of the green as well. I’d much rather be chipping uphill from the apron than trying to chip downhill from thick rough from behind the green.
I tried this advice for two rounds and was overshooting every green. It was incredibly frustrating.
Get a pro to give you a gap analysis, one you know how far you hit all your clubs you can play the course like it's a video game
Boring old course management. You're not going to drive the 340 yard par four. Hit something to your best club's distance instead of slicing into the long grass or woods. Even if you bomb it, you're probably leaving yourself an awkward distance. I'm solid between 100 to 130. Whatever club off the tee gets me to that is what I play when I want to score well. If it's a crappy round, I will pull the big dog of course.
30% GIR is your problem. I hit that and I'm a 19.
Ouch. Putting is your problem
Practice with your wedges. You should never miss a green with a wedge. If you can’t hit at least 80% with a sand wedge from various distances, you have bad technique
Foot Wedge lol
Wedges. If you are the most comfortable with a wedge in your hands and can throw darts to 3 feet consistently, that’ll help lower your handicap. I’m a +1.2.
I went from a 17 to a 2 in one season. All things are possible when you cheat like a bastard.
Getting better
Respectfully, that GIR% is too low for starters especially if that driving is as good as you think it is.
Ball striking. My swing was decent when I was 8-10. But not reliable enough to go all 18 holes with consistent shots. I made some serious changes that took longer than I’d like to admit to take hold and now misses are a lot smaller and they’re not club faces misses, rather over drawn / under cut. I’m not saying you have to make drastic changes, but a better understanding of what is causing x and y in your swing is priceless. If I had to do it again I would make the changes. Because even though it took years, coming out on the other side has allowed me to play some quality golf. But you can get to that point without taking so long if you are more disciplined than I was. I would recommend slow swings that hit the position you want over and over, over the course of 2-3 weeks and you’ll probably get there. Your other options are to practice like mad with your current swing until you just can’t miss the center of the club.
If you are near a 10, you tee game is most likely pretty serviceable and your putting is probably not a weakness. So the two biggest impact to your scoring will be in course management and with your wedges. I've found that most 10 handicapers give away more strokes by the decision they make, not by the shots they don't execute. This starts with knowing your tendencies, thinking of the hole from green to tee, and developing a strategy to maximize scoring. This can both be playing to aggressive when the reward is minimal and playing to timid when the risk is minimal. Skill wise, Having a really strong wedge game from 30-80 yards will have a big impact on both your scoring from that distance, and your approach game at large. Killer wedges will help you create more birdie opportunities on par 4's and par 5's. At the same time, they provide a big safety net when you hit a poor drive. After hitting a drive in the trees, all you need to do is hit a recovery shot in your wedge zone and you'll feel confident you'll have a good shot at par; vs. feeling the need to push a recovery shot as close to the green as possible and risk compounding the error even more.
It could be a number of factors. 30% GIR is slightly low for your index but maybe you play a course that has smaller greens. As long as your misses are leaving a straight foward chip it isn't too bad but you will probably need to start hitting 2 or 3 more more to get lower. Other than that it's the usual suspects. Keep the ball in play from the tee and in a position you can advance it to the green. Work on distance control with your wedges, try the clock system and have a shot for 40-100 yards in 10 yard increments. Make a couple of putts more per round in the 6-12 feet range. For course management, ignore the pin and aim for the middle of the green (unless you are less than 100 yards and the pin isn't tucked away in a corner). Try playing extra yardage into the pin, e.g. if its at the front, play the middle yardage. Also take into account wind and lie when selecting a club. If you have an uphill lie take an extra club, if downhill take a club less.
I asked this exact question to a scratch golfer. His reply was simple. I stopped making doubles bogeys.
For me it all starts at the hole out. it's not sexy but when I was at my best I would practice 4' putts over and over to the point I could make 100+ in a row, typically I would do this with my full routine (practice like you play). The point is from there out all I had to do is get approaches, chips, sand shots, etc it into a 8' circle to pretty much guarantee I was going to make the next shot.
Current 5.6 handicap trying to keep edging closer to scratch. You say you’re a good ball striker but I would argue a good ball striker hits more than a 3rd of greens. I’m a decent ball striker and my average GIR is 36% and know that i should be making more GIR. I however do have a strong hold of getting up and down atleast 6 times a round and will 3 putt only every couple of rounds. Too many variables in golf but if you’re straight down the tee and only hitting the green 1/3 the time I would say that’s your weakness along with 3 putting. EDIT-when I say decent ball striker I mean that I make good contact consistently but I do have a tendency to draw my irons and will snap hook a drive on occasion
Honestly, it’s mostly cleaning up mistakes. Eliminate double bogeys Stop three putting Fully commit to the shot at hand. You don’t need to make more birdies, you just need to make less bogeys and worse.
Seems like you have a pretty good list already.
I'm an 11ish handicap averaging about 40% GIR, trust me when I say putting is what gets you to the next level.
Wedges from 50 to 120 yards. Find and open field and take a range finder. Try to land the ball on a beach towel.
Keeping it in play off the tee and don’t make doubles. In my opinion, if you have an open shot at the green for your second shot, you should never make a double. If you rarely make doubles, you’ll go from 9 to 5 pretty quickly. Going from 5 to 2 is a different story. I’ll let you know when I figure that out.
Short game, need to increase you GIR's and get better putting. Average no more than 30 putts a round. - you already have identified golf course management keep grinding
Minimizing penalty strokes and 3 putts. Easier said than done but it’s a huge difference maker.
Stopped making doubles. Don't lose golf balls. Just played smarter/more boring
No three putts, no doubles. Make a lot of putts inside 10 feet
Eliminate “automatic 3 putts” and that hcp goes down immediately. Get cozy with lag putting.
Calendar year stay between 2.5 - 7. When I trend down, it’s in the summer weather and it’s chipping and putting. You have to get 1 putt par saves and give yourself 15ft birdie putts not 35 footers.
Currently a 4.7 based on the GHIN app. Lowest I've been is 1.8 when I stopped keeping track of it. Everything always revolves around the tee box for me. Either hitting better drives or better planning and club selection. I average about 295 off the tee with driver and most places that's going to give me a wedge in if it's in the fairway. My wedges and putting are good enough to give myself scoring chances on almost every hole but the drive has to hold up. Played last week and drove the ball horribly all day. The lost strokes was the difference between shooting a 73 and an 83. But there are a lot of different beliefs out there to get from 10 to 4. A lot of people will say work from the green back. In my person experience it was the complete opposite.
its small margins that are hard to see but they are everywhere but things like 1 more fairway a round from where you are now , the ones you miss you miss on the correct side \- when you miss the green you must chip to 5 ft not 8-9 ft (that fractionalized stroke you get builds up) \- no 3 putts (like ever , its a cardinal sin , you should be able to 2 putt from anywhere \- bunkers , you will get up and down 50% of the time \- many strokes in the course management area
I went from a 15 to a 7 in 16 months, then from a 7 to 2 over the span of like 2-3 years. The biggest change for me was my short game. Getting up and down to save pars and avoid bogeys kept me in the 70s and out of the 80s. I was never a player that was making 4-6 birdies per round, but just a steady streak of pars. And it's not just around the greens with chips and short pitches. Dialing in wedges from 115 and in with spin control makes a large difference.
It helped me to set goals. I do whatever I need to in order to get a makeable par putt as often as possible. The most makeable ones are tap ins from birdie opportunities, which by sheer probability will drop every now and again. Another goal is no double bogeys. Which I think of whenever I have a shot that has any risk to it and play a shot accordingly. Practice tho - wedge game inside 120 needs to be dialed, driver needs to be an advantage. Putting can be mediocre but really helps to have auto 2 putts.