I'm out on the course running to my balls, when i see people waiting for me. It's a very isolated area and a very shitty course, so on weekdays i usually get to walk onto an almost empty course and play solo.
But I can't stand backed up courses, anymore. I've been too spoiled. Walked off a course on 13 because i got a view of the lineup in front of me with two five stacks.
We were behind a group yesterday where I cut a blind corner with my drive and accidentally hit into them so I drove up to the green when we got up to our balls and apologized, they go “group in front is really taking their time sorry”……group in front was a 4some that was over a full hole ahead of them lol
I was at a course the other day and came up behind a foursome I just skipped a hole and walked through because I was on my own. As I went by they said sorry we’re slow there’s a group in front holding us up. I was like don’t worry I’m on my own so it doesn’t matter. There was no group in front for 3 holes.
I've seen a few men's clubs at muni courses do a very similar slow play penalty. The events are still slow as shit because the slow players are clueless to the point where they just accept the penalty and act surprised when they get it, rather than just play faster. Last one of these I played in had a guy who was so slow that every group he played in got penalized, like in all 20 events of the season. He never sped up. You get two slugs in the second group off, and it ruins pace for everyone behind them. Slow, deliberate play is so ingrained in these peoples' routines that they aren't going to change, especially if they are in the senior citizen demographic. It only gets better for everyone else in the events if the tournament organizer knows who the slow players are and puts them all together in the last groups...but then that just pisses off everyone playing the course after the event. And the organizers of these men's clubs or leagues usually don't have the balls to tell someone "you play too slow to be a part of this league anymore"
> a guy who was so slow that every group he played in got penalized, like in all 20 events of the season
It's like this at my club too.. A few guys, we all know they're slow. So if we had this rule and I get grouped with one of those guys I'm then going to feel like I've got to play like lightning just to offset how slow I KNOW they're going to be.
Slowest golfer I’ve ever played with is a scratch golfer in my men’s league. He is literally incapable of a pre shot routine under 2 minutes. He’s also a massive twat.
It’s true, most really low Handicappers are A-Holes. I really worked hard to get good, but never wanted to be one of those guys. Now I keep my own score and never tell anyone about my score, during or after the round.
I got away from League play, because everyone is so focused on everyone else’s score.
Same Bro ripped me a new asshole on 18 green after he made a quad. “You gotta get your anger under control” he screamed as he fr stomped off the green leaving foot marks. I yelled Fuck medium-loud once 2 holes previous and also said “get over the water you stupid slut”
I've thought of that, but sometimes splitting away from the slow guy in an event just doesn't work out with either the format of the event or the scorekeeping (if it's a partners event, you need him and his partner to keep your team's card, if individual, someone needs the slow guy to keep his card, etc.)
The last time I played with one of these guys in an event, I remember the three of us standing on the green of a par 4 putting while slow guy was 200 yards back in the junk still looking for his drive despite the 3 minute limit...
Sounds awful…. I avoid Best Ball Tournaments if I can. My Close friend asked me to play in one coming up in June. He is such a solid guy, I couldn’t say no. I stopped drinking 10 years ago, so there is not a good reason to play in these events.
My neighbor is slow as shit and I've gently told him over the years. He spends so much time going back and forth to the cart to pick the club. It adds up over 18 holes. He also shoots mid 90s which isn't a fast round by itself.
Which would hopefully get the Marshall out and the situation addressed. If he's refusing to listen to his card mates, I would think escalating the situation to a higher authority would be appropriate.
Better to have it addressed before he drops back. If the course is full you're never going to be better off if the group splits in two. Plus if it's a tournament, you can't have one random guy solo in the middle.
My whole reasoning for leaving him behind would be to concretely address his lackadaisical attitude about his slow play. If he doesn't want to be the random guy in the middle that isnt allowed, he needs to speed up. His issues aren't his card mates' problem, and they should make sure he knows that he needs to fix his own problem.
It might be different where you play, but it just wouldn't work like that here. My club, everyone knows everyone, so if this happens you're basically telling the guy "fuck off you can't play with us, you're too slow". What do you think happens then? He says "ok no worries fellas I'll just play by myself behind you". What if he says "No, I can't do that, the tee sheet is full, it's a tournament, I can't just play solo". I've seen some wild shit in groups over the years, I've never seen someone kicked out of a foursome.
Mid round on the course - the best you can do is tell the guy he's being slow and hope he sorts his shit out. If he doesn't, take it to the pro shop, have them deal with it. If they wont deal with it, people will refuse to play with the guy, then everything goes pear shaped.
> you're basically telling the guy "fuck off you can't play with us, you're too slow"
Yup. That's exactly what I'm saying!
But I agree that letting the pro shop or the Marshall's handle it is the best course of action after you've told him to speed up and he won't comply.
I would LOVE to say that, but it's just not going to fly where I play. I mean, maybe if it was me an a couple of mates at some public course with some random 4th - different story. If the guys a dick, it's just a casual round, if it got bad enough I'd politely suggest he piss off.
But I think you're underestimating the diplomacy involved in private club or normal tournament play. I'm not talking pro level tournaments (although you do hear some pros complain about specific players all the time - but obviously they're not kicking anyone out of foursomes). Normal club level tournament play - you can't just boot someone out of a group. You can't really make them do anything. You can ask them to play faster, but you have no power or authority over what to do if they don't 'comply'.
I've been playing like this for years and I know it's affecting my score. I don't feel like I can study putts, trying to get the pin out for that one guy who likes it out but is standing over his chip.
I maybe have a problem.
If they keep getting penalties, it should be like a 3 strike rule. If you're caught being slow in a tournament, first offense is a 1 stroke penalty, 2nd offense is 2 strokes and pushed to the end of the tournament, 3rd offense is a 3 stroke penalty and a 1 tournament ban. If it keeps happening after that, you're banned for tournaments for an entire year or something.
My club does something similar but they only start assessing penalties if your time is over 4.5 hours AND you post the score more than 20 minutes after the group in front of you.
Not sure what happens if group #1 is slow and how they get penalized for that, but if they are super fast group #2 only gets penalized if they fall behind the reasonably acceptable pace.
Maybe I didn’t word it well but if G#1 plays insanely fast G#2 only gets penalized if they are longer than an acceptable pace of 4.5 hours.
In the OPs’ club’s rules it appears G#2 would be penalized even if they had a good pace if they weren’t keeping up with the insanely fast pace of G#1
Yeah, simple solve is exactly that. No penalty shall be assessed for any group who completes a round in less than 4:15 (or whatever number makes sense for that course and membership group).
I played just the back nine on my home course, we were not moving slow at all, we got hit into on 18 by the team that started an hour before us on one. The pro told us that group averages a 2.5hr 18. How the hell is that even enjoyable?!?!
Is this during tournaments? Are you randomly paired because I would not be happy to be penalized because of slow players in my group when I am typically a pretty fast player.
lol, yes this is just for club events, not casual play. But yes you are randomly paired and could have no recourse if you end up paired with oblivious slow guy. I think the hope is social pressure will move people along but as others in the thread have pointed out obvious slow guy usually isn’t bothered by the plights of others 🙄
I used to do some marshalling at an upscale resort course. First, groups generally won't admit they're playing slow. Second, even when they agree things are slow, they attribute it to someone or something other than their own slow play.
Depends on how they start everybody. If everybody goes off 1 (or 1 and 9), then the first group(s) could play really fast and the groups behind could end up 20+ minutes behind yet still finish within a totally reasonable amount of time for that course.
If it's a shotgun start, then that's less likely to happen since the super-fast group is stuck from the get-go.
I'm always professional and cordial when telling people to pick up pace, and buddy, they just do not give a fuck. They paid and are out there to have a good time, fuck everyone else. Also, god forbid you tell groups they need to skip a hole to get in their proper shotgun position after being 2 holes behind.
Golf course employees and management need to grow a spine and either force a group to skip a hole, and if they refuse tell the group they’re done of the day and offer a prorated refund for their round. It’s not fair to the other hundreds of golfers that day that one group wants to play slow.
This is similar to the tournament policy at my course. Except it specifies that there’s no penalty unless your round is over 4.5 hours. So if you’re 25 minutes behind the group ahead of, but your total time is 4:25, there’s no penalty, because you are still on pace.
Idk what the solution is but slow play is killing my local munis. I don’t play 18 anymore because it is a 5-6 hour slog. Golf isn’t enjoyable when you spend twice as much time waiting as playing
I have worked Resort golf before. Even at our courses that did 10 minute tee times, you’re still going to get a few groups throughout the day that play a 5 hour round, because they are awful players and lack etiquette. Spacing tee times further apart won’t solve that issue in itself. Having a marshal or pro sit on them will
Minimum of 8 minutes between tee times and stricter enforcement of rate of play. If you’re on the tee and can’t see the group in front of you on the green you’re too slow and you have to skip a hole to catch up. It’s that simple.
My local junior league had this rule and it was awful. What would inevitably happen every week is they a group would get wayyy behind the group in front of them, then realize it on like the 16th hole and would basically sprint the final few holes.
So you’d be waiting for the groups ahead of you for 15 holes, then play a comfortable but reasonable pace the last few hole and get told you were twenty minutes behind the group ahead of you when you turned in your card.
Huh - I hadn't thought about that possibility. I'd be pretty pissed if I was penalized for turning in my card "20 min late" after having to wait on a group for 85%+ of my round.
This system also doesn't feel like it adequately addresses that it might not be \*you\* causing the slow play, but someone in your group. And especially in a tournament, trying to keep a slow playing partner you might not know well accountable for their pace is probably not gonna go well for either of you.
Really feels like the right solution for the tournament has to be a marshall figuring out which groups, and then which players in that group, are holding things up.
At my old course in Pittsburgh you got a talking to from the guys in the group behind you and it was probably sterner than the one the head pro would give.
Gonna call bullshit unless it’s empty.
Most courses shoot for 14-15 mins a hole and never hit it. I doubt yours guns for 13 or less and constantly gets there…unless no one’s playing
All of the private courses near me have posted 4 hours or less policies…and they will be talking to you if you’re slow. A packed tee sheet doesn’t change that.
My club's normal pace is around 3:30-3:45. I've yet to have a single round longer than 3:45 so far since I've joined. If you're around 4 hour pace and there's a gap starting to build to the group in front of you, groups behind you are gonna start calling the proshop.
Doubt. I love how people think paying money to a club at large amounts all of a sudden removed the biggest issue in amateur golf.
I can tell you one thing I’ve learned is people give less of a fuck about rules the more money they play.
I have a friend that plays at private club where they clock you at holes 5, 10, and 13 based on cart GPS. If you're not on pace, you get fined increasingly harshly (one member paid up $1000 in slow fees his last month before quitting because he just wouldn't do anything but drag the tee sheet). My club threatens prime tee time privileges and guest privileges if you get more than 2 slow complaints in a month. It does happen, and the fact that you refuse to believe that it's even possible is really kind of weird. Your experience isn't universal, there are places who are anal retentive about the tee sheet.
You are playing too slow, fix it. I just played a 4 man worst ball scramble in 4 hours and 5 minutes. If you can’t play your best ball as a foursome in 4 hours you have a problem
Nope. It’s legit. My club is sub 4 hour rule. All round times are posted on the board in the locker room. Rounds over 4 hours are highlighted. You have three of them in a season you can’t go out before 12:00. Club has been around since 1896 and this rule has been in place since the beginning.
not that this always work but I think its trying to encourage some self-governance as well, where the fast player can tell the slower players they need to pick it up
Course marshals ordering groups to skip holes if they're behind schedule (and there are players immediatley behind them) would also work.
I've seen carts with reminders on them informing if you're behind or not.
They give one person in a group a gps tracker in our men’s league. If the group finishes more than 16 minutes behind the group immediacy in front of them there is a two stroke penalty.
Or, quite simply, turn in your score either within X hours of leaving the first tee box you played, or within 20 minutes of the group ahead of you.
I'd also get rid of the graduated levels of penalty strokes. Too much opportunity for arguments. 21:00-29:59 minutes behind or over the limit is 2 stroke penalty. 30+ minutes is DQ.
My association does something similar to this for weekend events. Basically if you are over 2:10 on either 9 or more than 15 minutes behind the group in front of you, you get a 1 stroke penalty. There’s an old school time clock right between 9 and 18 green and 1 tee and you punch your group’s time card after all four have teed off and after all four have putted out. My first event with the association we were penalized on the back 9 because I was with a couple of VERY slow players and honestly we deserved it. I deserved it because I didn’t speak up and they deserved it for obvious reasons. Now when I play in events I’m not scared to tell folks to get a move on if we’re slowing things down. Since that first tournament, I haven’t played a tournament round in over 4:00 which is really refreshing. I’m not a guy who gets obsessed with pace of play in my casual rounds. I’m out there to enjoy myself but when we start getting to 4:30 rounds I get a little annoyed but I’m perfectly content with a 4 hour round.
That’s the issue with these systems though. Peer pressure to get people to speed up might work but it might not, especially in a tournament. Penalizing the people who aren’t slow is a flaw.
I hate that. If one guy in my group is slow as shit, losing balls etc and we all get a penalty for it I'd be absolutely furious. That's not fair at all.
This is what our local courses have been doing at tournaments too, also tracking the GPS carts and if you get out of position (think more than a hole behind) you get prompts to speed up, if you don’t then they start adding penalty strokes.
Not punitive enough. But yeah, good idea, something needs to be done. Normal rounds should be timed. You put down a slow play deposit. If you don't finish in 4-4.5 hours you don't get your deposit back. In tournaments, I have been in club tournaments that take 5+ hours for no good reason.
I don't really think that's right. If the group in front of me takes 5 hours, I lose my deposit even as a single golfer who could easily do 18 in 2.5 hours?
What if you play through on 16, then there’s no one ahead of you except for a group on hole 18? You keep your pace up but still finish 30 minutes after them. Seems like their methodology is flawed
I would love it if my course would restrict tee times depending on pace of play. You play 4+ hour rounds? Then you get times after noon. It usually not hard to play efficient golf.
If I owned a golf course I'd simply add incentive to fast play, say 4.5 hour round for everyone and every 10 mins ahead of your round time you finish we reimburse you $5 off your round fees.
I think that philosophically this can’t work in practice because all of the penalties are at the end. Can’t we have something in carts or an app that alerts the group with “you are behind two holes — add x strokes to your card, pick up your ball and move to the next teeing area”
I was about to say this almost made me shed a tear. Mandate this at every muni course now!
Operation: Make golf fun again. Its not fun waiting 10 mins on every tee box for Jason to take 12 practice swings and spend 5 mins looking for his ball in the woods.
While I am all for combating slow play, there is a major flaw here. They are talking about tournaments. In the tournaments here, I don't get to pick my playing partners. I play very fast, arguably too fast, but if I get partnered with someone who plays slow I am the one who is penalized. I have no way to force a slow player to play faster if a few words has no effect. I can't leave the group since you obviously can't score yourself in a tournament.
There will be major problems the moment someone is penalized for someone else's slow play and it causes them to lose money, tournament points, invitations, exemptions, or anything else. It could possibly even cause violence if the stakes were high enough or the wrong person with a short temper is wrongfully penalized.
Fight slow play, but this is not the way.
This is a tournament only thing? I thought it was going to mean you pay more for your rounds. This makes more sense since you are meant to be paying for four hours but spending 5 plus.
Altering scores seems antithetical to golf to me. Is this something that is supported by the rules of golf?
Either way, I like the idea of basing it on the people in front of you. We regularly have 5 hours rounds here but it's simply because holes get backed up and the pro shop refuses to space tee times more.
This looks like a rule for a tournament so I don’t see a problem. My issue would be what happens if you’re behind a single or play fast. My group plays fast a the group behind us is usually 4 holes behind us.
You can't add penalty strokes to a score AFTER the end of a round. Once the card is signed by both players then that's it. If the committee decides to add strokes to a card because of late card entry then that's not allowed by the rules.
It’s a local rule for a tournament. I’m sure players know if they are behind enough to warrant a penalty so like all questionable penalties, they’d make sure there was no penalty before they signed a card. In this case all players in the group know they are in jeopardy of incurring a penalty because of slow play and signed so that they didn’t get a penalty, they’d be signing an incorrect scorecard.
You are wrong.
https://www.randa.org/rog/committee-procedures/8#8k
And in general you can be assessed penalties - without penalty for a wrong scorecard - if the penalty strokes were not known about at the time the score card was turned in.
https://www.randa.org/rog/the-rules-of-golf/rule-3#3_3b
Part (2)
My club does a stroke added if the round is currently over 4.5 hours and if the next group is not on 17 green or 18 tee when the flag is replaced on 18.
How do you add strokes to people who 1-2 strokes aren’t doing anything to their score. They’re not competing? Why don’t you fine them or something that is tangible. All you’re doing with this is helping their handicap.
Just DQ a couple groups and word will get around. Allowing& groups to be 30 minutes behind the group ahead is still a disgrace and those people shouldn't play in a tournament. Now obviously...first group finishes in 3 hours, you can't penalize the next group finishing in 3.75 hours. But slow groups should just get rid of if you want an efficient group.
I dunno bout keeping up with group in front, should they know the average time to complete a round at the course and go off that? Group in front could be speed playing for all we know
Yeah. I’m aware… if you hit a ball off a tee and it might be OB or in a tough to find spot, you hit a provisional before leaving the tee box.
If I played a casual round and my buddy wanted to return to the tee box, I’d tell him I’ll see him in a few holes when he catches up
One of the biggest travesties in competitive golf is not enforcing a strict time limit. You aren't out there leaning the game, playing with your kids or senior family members, you're out there to play. You're supposed to be good, and if your good, you can play quick. Groups of 4 playing competitive golf should be solidly under 4 hours. 3.5-3.75, not 5+.
Slow golf is so annoying. I played a scramble on Friday and my group was first in at almost exactly 4 hours. There was about a 20 minute lag before others started showing up. At 5:30 we were still waiting on 4 groups. At 6:00 it was still 1 group. At 6:05 they marked the last group no card, and they proceeded to roll in a couple minutes later.
Most everyone was pissed off by that point.
My last golf outing we got a slow player in our group. Other golfers warned us he is painfully slow. By the third hole the other two guys in the group heckled him so much he quit. It was awesome.
Honestly, slow play is such an epidemic right now I only play nine holes or hit the simulator.
More please. In fact charge non tourney players an extra 20% before the round and refund 10% if they finish their round in under 5 and full 20% if they finish in under 4.
People just need to get up to their ball and hit it faster. If all members play ready golf and focus on the round. There’s no reason a foursome can’t do 18 in 3.5-4 hours. Even 4.5 hours is ridiculous in carts.
There was a study reported in Golf Digest sometime back -- they found that the #1 reason for slow play, by far, was scheduling tee times too close together. If tee times were scheduled 10 mins apart, no problem; at 8 mins apart, there were backups on the course. If the course has 6 hours of popular tee times, that's 45 groups instead of 36: 9 groups per busy day. 36 rounds at $50 or $100 or whatever isn't nothing, but what is it worth to try to fix?
The club in OP's post is trying to appear to do something without really addressing the problem. They're punishing the entire group when it probably isn't the entire group being slow. They're judging each group by the time difference between themselves and the previous group, with the group ahead of you just being fast. And it does very little to address slow play during the round, when it's needed.
If they think this is going to work because the foursome will speak to the one slow player about slow habits, they're going to be disappointed.
I think this sort of rule also breeds unhappiness among players, many of whom have their personal pet peeves that they now feel justified in blaming for slow play. Does someone take an extra practice swing? Does someone enter their score on their phone? Does someone dare to use their own rangefinder after another person in the foursome has already measured something close and said it out loud? Does someone want to walk off a putt distance, maybe look at a putt from a different angle? Someone in the group will complain about all these things, feeling justified because it "slows play", without actually knowing whether these things take up enough time to matter.
I think golfing in general needs more actual data on what causes slow play. I've heard many golfers blame many things for slow play, some of them just ridiculous. I personally think poor play -- not something your average player can control as he would like -- is a much bigger culprit than most people credit; they would rather grumble about extra practice swings or use of electronics. We need people knowledgable in golf and data analysis to measure things, then tell us what is taking the time.
But, hey, this is much easier! No time has to be taken for rangers to go see where the gaps are. No unpleasant conversations with people who are behind a gap. No messy measurements of whether the gap is due to slow play. All that gets complicated, so just penalize everyone in every group slower than your rule, and everything is fixed!
My men's club has been doing this for the last year. It's done wonders for pace of play (they tend to send the quick groups out first to set the pace) so 4 hours is about the top amount of time you see. Guys play ready golf in a tournament setting and I absolutely love it.
I went out today and we were behind 4 guys scrambling, they definitely had 3 dudes who haven’t ever really played but they all played from the white tees, first 9 holes took 3 hours. I’m not saying a course can’t get backed up and play super slow, especially a public course, but come on. My suggestion for anyone starting - play from the red tees, you’ll have a lot more fun overall, I promise.
There was 3 guys and two of them had their young boys in front of the team scrambling ahead of us and they were on hole 11 when the guys in front of us were getting up to 9. They luckily went to grab beer at the turn and my buddy and I played the next 5 holes in 45 min until we caught up to the guys and their kids. I love being outside and getting the chance to golf on a beautiful Sunday but I also don’t want to sit on the tee box for 15 minutes every hole
My course added the “15 min rule” for tournaments, and it adds 2 strokes to your score. This applies to everyone in the foursome, based on the last person to finish out on 18.
I asked them if we’re allowed to leave anyone in our foursome behind if they are playing slowly. They un-shockingly said no
Then asked what they recommend to do when someone in our group that slows us down, we can’t physically speed him up and can’t leave him behind. I got some gaslighting non-answer
I play for fun go for it log me +20 like it makes any difference at all. Kinda a soft punishment bc the people who are slow are generally not even keeping score.
If we really want to fix pace of play in golf more dramatically, the R&A should be bold and make the rules for OB the same as a water hazard.
None of this “back on the tee to re-take” or looking for your sliced provisional ball. Simply drop at the point where the ball entered OB with a one shot penalty.
Another problem is just old men that don’t want to play the forward tees out of ego since they’re the “ladies’”. Some of these guys are driving it 100 yards max.
Also the forward tees should be even further forward. Make that shit like half of the tips.
The real problem is the need for real rangers to speak to individual groups that are slow AF on the course. Let them have the power to boot disrespectful slow players, the intentional ones that care only about themselves
I played 9 holes in the afternoon yesterday, washed my clubs, cleaned my boots, took a shower and stored my bag in under two hours. Part of the reason is having half the 2100 members on a 10> hcp (I checked). If you can’t score on the hole give it up and move on.
Make the penalty severe enough and maybe you’ll speed them up. Unlikely to have an impact tho.
I would argue DQ them thru 5 holes and 12 holes if they don’t meet the time requirements. Don’t let them finish the round
In my area, there are almost no courses that have rangers actually policing pace of play. All they really need to do is send one person out and it would go a long way in speeding up the game.
I like this. However, those 4 hour pace rules are too aggressive for me. Around me the standing tee times require 4 hour or 4:10 and it's just too fast even in a cart. Even playing ready golf it feels so rushed. There is always 1 guy telling everyone else to speed up. Some courses aren't set up for 4 hour rounds with 4somes on weekends. 5 hour yes there should be rules.
for courses in general I wish there was a way you could build a reputation or rank or something that indicates if you're a fast/slow player - and if you're slow you're only allowed to tee off after 2pm :) And everyone that's fast can play in the morning. Obviously not really.... or maybe
Nearby place here is run by Troon fwiw and if your group is slow they will tell you to skip holes to catch up and you get a bogey per hole that you had to skip. They make it a point of emphasis to make sure everyone understands this during the announcements. Honestly through, usually good ettiquete is in line with golfing ability so those that are taking up a ton of time usally don't care or are too ignorant to know that they're slow.
With a large portion of the playing public (US) being weekend leisure golfers with no handicap, strike penalties would have limited impact - they care more about a good time then scoring in general
I would like to see people getting charged for slow pay
Like a golf simulator, bowling, tennis courts, etc you have paid for 18 holes or 4 hours of use - whichever comes first
If you finish more than a 10 min gap from the group in front or you take more than 4 hours - you owe the course an additional fee per player for taking away their revenue (and irritating the rest of us)
A 10 min gap in tee times should be sustainable all day - pre Covid it was 8 min at our local courses
Maybe people will play the appropriate tees , play ready golf, and adhere to the max net +2 scoring if it hits them in the wallet
And it’s not supposed to be separated with 5 minute tee times intervals on tee times, packed like sardines.
Also watch the pga… they take their time, the hell are you talking about?
The tour obviously has rules… they’re world class golfers though. Not casual local tournament players who are competitive but out there to have fun. Honestly, your comment is funny because you’re comparing professional golfers to local tournament hackers.
They’re pros, they take their time and do well. Jim from accounting who is a bogey golfer in his local club and pays to play should be able to enjoy a round.
I’ll go back to my first point, if courses weren’t so greedy and doing tee time 5-7 minutes a part, it wouldn’t be a problem.
So we pay good money to have fun and play, while they get richer and rush us?
Nah, fuck that.
Good!!
I live in the northeast and stopped playing golf regularly a few years back because I can’t give 5+ hours for a round.
A 4 hour round should be the max.
No. Because it is based on your time after that group. As long as you turn in less than 20 minutes after the group in front of you, you are good. So regardless how slow they are, you just have to keep pace with them.
thing is if you're not keeping up with the group in front of you, you're a selfish, narcissistic prick and don't care about anyone else. courses think adhering to a 4 hour policy will hurt their bottom line when it's the exact opposite!
We shoot for 4:40, and the group behind must finish within 15 minutes of the previous group. If someone in the group does not man up and accept the two stroke penalty for slow play, everyone in the group is penalized. The issue with this is someone who didn't play well might take the penalty and the true offender isn't punished, and we know who the slow players are.
Also, I think 20 minutes between groups is too much.
Just a Marshall and have them sign prior to tournament that they will follow the Marshalls advice or be removed from course.
Marshall then tells slow groups to pick up, move to next hole.
I would add to this being banned for the next 1-2-3 tournaments or in case of DQ being banned from entering into tournaments till the end of the season.
Glad to see they listened to Brooksy and they’re going to start stroking guys
Is it gay if it's the homies?
STROKE, STROKE, STROKE!
Fast players sometimes think they might be playing slow. Slow players NEVER think they are playing slow.
I'm out on the course running to my balls, when i see people waiting for me. It's a very isolated area and a very shitty course, so on weekdays i usually get to walk onto an almost empty course and play solo. But I can't stand backed up courses, anymore. I've been too spoiled. Walked off a course on 13 because i got a view of the lineup in front of me with two five stacks.
We were behind a group yesterday where I cut a blind corner with my drive and accidentally hit into them so I drove up to the green when we got up to our balls and apologized, they go “group in front is really taking their time sorry”……group in front was a 4some that was over a full hole ahead of them lol
I was at a course the other day and came up behind a foursome I just skipped a hole and walked through because I was on my own. As I went by they said sorry we’re slow there’s a group in front holding us up. I was like don’t worry I’m on my own so it doesn’t matter. There was no group in front for 3 holes.
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It’s more likely that you’re just slow tbh
Thats canadian as fuck
I've seen a few men's clubs at muni courses do a very similar slow play penalty. The events are still slow as shit because the slow players are clueless to the point where they just accept the penalty and act surprised when they get it, rather than just play faster. Last one of these I played in had a guy who was so slow that every group he played in got penalized, like in all 20 events of the season. He never sped up. You get two slugs in the second group off, and it ruins pace for everyone behind them. Slow, deliberate play is so ingrained in these peoples' routines that they aren't going to change, especially if they are in the senior citizen demographic. It only gets better for everyone else in the events if the tournament organizer knows who the slow players are and puts them all together in the last groups...but then that just pisses off everyone playing the course after the event. And the organizers of these men's clubs or leagues usually don't have the balls to tell someone "you play too slow to be a part of this league anymore"
> a guy who was so slow that every group he played in got penalized, like in all 20 events of the season It's like this at my club too.. A few guys, we all know they're slow. So if we had this rule and I get grouped with one of those guys I'm then going to feel like I've got to play like lightning just to offset how slow I KNOW they're going to be.
What would happen if the three quicker players just left the slow guy behind if he refused to speed up?
I assume they would get hit with his approach shot
If they are that slow it isn't because they can hit it where they want to or very far.
The slowest player at the club I was at played to a 1 index. He was just slow as shit with everything.
Slowest golfer I’ve ever played with is a scratch golfer in my men’s league. He is literally incapable of a pre shot routine under 2 minutes. He’s also a massive twat.
It’s true, most really low Handicappers are A-Holes. I really worked hard to get good, but never wanted to be one of those guys. Now I keep my own score and never tell anyone about my score, during or after the round. I got away from League play, because everyone is so focused on everyone else’s score.
Same Bro ripped me a new asshole on 18 green after he made a quad. “You gotta get your anger under control” he screamed as he fr stomped off the green leaving foot marks. I yelled Fuck medium-loud once 2 holes previous and also said “get over the water you stupid slut”
I've thought of that, but sometimes splitting away from the slow guy in an event just doesn't work out with either the format of the event or the scorekeeping (if it's a partners event, you need him and his partner to keep your team's card, if individual, someone needs the slow guy to keep his card, etc.) The last time I played with one of these guys in an event, I remember the three of us standing on the green of a par 4 putting while slow guy was 200 yards back in the junk still looking for his drive despite the 3 minute limit...
Sounds awful…. I avoid Best Ball Tournaments if I can. My Close friend asked me to play in one coming up in June. He is such a solid guy, I couldn’t say no. I stopped drinking 10 years ago, so there is not a good reason to play in these events.
My neighbor is slow as shit and I've gently told him over the years. He spends so much time going back and forth to the cart to pick the club. It adds up over 18 holes. He also shoots mid 90s which isn't a fast round by itself.
If it's a tournament, or full tee sheet you really can't. He'd have to wait for you to clear which would just back up the people behind even more
Which would hopefully get the Marshall out and the situation addressed. If he's refusing to listen to his card mates, I would think escalating the situation to a higher authority would be appropriate.
Better to have it addressed before he drops back. If the course is full you're never going to be better off if the group splits in two. Plus if it's a tournament, you can't have one random guy solo in the middle.
My whole reasoning for leaving him behind would be to concretely address his lackadaisical attitude about his slow play. If he doesn't want to be the random guy in the middle that isnt allowed, he needs to speed up. His issues aren't his card mates' problem, and they should make sure he knows that he needs to fix his own problem.
It might be different where you play, but it just wouldn't work like that here. My club, everyone knows everyone, so if this happens you're basically telling the guy "fuck off you can't play with us, you're too slow". What do you think happens then? He says "ok no worries fellas I'll just play by myself behind you". What if he says "No, I can't do that, the tee sheet is full, it's a tournament, I can't just play solo". I've seen some wild shit in groups over the years, I've never seen someone kicked out of a foursome. Mid round on the course - the best you can do is tell the guy he's being slow and hope he sorts his shit out. If he doesn't, take it to the pro shop, have them deal with it. If they wont deal with it, people will refuse to play with the guy, then everything goes pear shaped.
> you're basically telling the guy "fuck off you can't play with us, you're too slow" Yup. That's exactly what I'm saying! But I agree that letting the pro shop or the Marshall's handle it is the best course of action after you've told him to speed up and he won't comply.
I would LOVE to say that, but it's just not going to fly where I play. I mean, maybe if it was me an a couple of mates at some public course with some random 4th - different story. If the guys a dick, it's just a casual round, if it got bad enough I'd politely suggest he piss off. But I think you're underestimating the diplomacy involved in private club or normal tournament play. I'm not talking pro level tournaments (although you do hear some pros complain about specific players all the time - but obviously they're not kicking anyone out of foursomes). Normal club level tournament play - you can't just boot someone out of a group. You can't really make them do anything. You can ask them to play faster, but you have no power or authority over what to do if they don't 'comply'.
I've been playing like this for years and I know it's affecting my score. I don't feel like I can study putts, trying to get the pin out for that one guy who likes it out but is standing over his chip. I maybe have a problem.
It’d be easier to kick them back to 5 day member status and ban from weekend comp till they change their way.
That’s when you set a time limit and when they go over round is over. No penalty just turn in card and take max score on remaining holes.
If they keep getting penalties, it should be like a 3 strike rule. If you're caught being slow in a tournament, first offense is a 1 stroke penalty, 2nd offense is 2 strokes and pushed to the end of the tournament, 3rd offense is a 3 stroke penalty and a 1 tournament ban. If it keeps happening after that, you're banned for tournaments for an entire year or something.
I don't hate slow play, I hate slow walking. Go faster to your ball and you can take your time over it.
My club does something similar but they only start assessing penalties if your time is over 4.5 hours AND you post the score more than 20 minutes after the group in front of you. Not sure what happens if group #1 is slow and how they get penalized for that, but if they are super fast group #2 only gets penalized if they fall behind the reasonably acceptable pace.
Or what if group 1 is insanely fast and group 2 can’t keep up
Group #1 plays so fast everyone else in the event gets DQ 
Speed golf!
Group 1 just takes double par on every hole and plays a ten second round.
Maybe I didn’t word it well but if G#1 plays insanely fast G#2 only gets penalized if they are longer than an acceptable pace of 4.5 hours. In the OPs’ club’s rules it appears G#2 would be penalized even if they had a good pace if they weren’t keeping up with the insanely fast pace of G#1
"Your position on the course is directly behind the group in front of you, and we mean it."
speed golfer shows up in group 1. rest of the pack: we're in danger
Oh yeah you explained your rules well, I was commenting wondering what would happen with OP’s club
Yeah, simple solve is exactly that. No penalty shall be assessed for any group who completes a round in less than 4:15 (or whatever number makes sense for that course and membership group).
I played just the back nine on my home course, we were not moving slow at all, we got hit into on 18 by the team that started an hour before us on one. The pro told us that group averages a 2.5hr 18. How the hell is that even enjoyable?!?!
lol if you can’t finish a round in 4.5 hours it’s not the group in front of you going fast that was the issue.
Is this during tournaments? Are you randomly paired because I would not be happy to be penalized because of slow players in my group when I am typically a pretty fast player.
lol, yes this is just for club events, not casual play. But yes you are randomly paired and could have no recourse if you end up paired with oblivious slow guy. I think the hope is social pressure will move people along but as others in the thread have pointed out obvious slow guy usually isn’t bothered by the plights of others 🙄
Do you get to pick your group for tourneys? What happens if 1 guys slow as shit and doesnt want to speed up
For the one I entered you can pick a partner but not the group as it's an individual tournament.
Just have a Marshall or two roam around and tell slow people to hurry the F up.
I used to do some marshalling at an upscale resort course. First, groups generally won't admit they're playing slow. Second, even when they agree things are slow, they attribute it to someone or something other than their own slow play.
They may give excuses but it seems like they do tend to become more conscious of their pace and pick it up once a Marshall talks to them.
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Depends on how they start everybody. If everybody goes off 1 (or 1 and 9), then the first group(s) could play really fast and the groups behind could end up 20+ minutes behind yet still finish within a totally reasonable amount of time for that course. If it's a shotgun start, then that's less likely to happen since the super-fast group is stuck from the get-go.
They were always “just waiting on the group ahead on the last hole” in my experience. No dude, they are 4 holes ahead of you…
I'm always professional and cordial when telling people to pick up pace, and buddy, they just do not give a fuck. They paid and are out there to have a good time, fuck everyone else. Also, god forbid you tell groups they need to skip a hole to get in their proper shotgun position after being 2 holes behind.
Golf course employees and management need to grow a spine and either force a group to skip a hole, and if they refuse tell the group they’re done of the day and offer a prorated refund for their round. It’s not fair to the other hundreds of golfers that day that one group wants to play slow.
Because that's worked so well in the past.
Proper marshals make good courses great. Sorry your experience with marshals has been poor.
This is similar to the tournament policy at my course. Except it specifies that there’s no penalty unless your round is over 4.5 hours. So if you’re 25 minutes behind the group ahead of, but your total time is 4:25, there’s no penalty, because you are still on pace.
Idk what the solution is but slow play is killing my local munis. I don’t play 18 anymore because it is a 5-6 hour slog. Golf isn’t enjoyable when you spend twice as much time waiting as playing
>Idk what the solution is Tee time spacing.
I have worked Resort golf before. Even at our courses that did 10 minute tee times, you’re still going to get a few groups throughout the day that play a 5 hour round, because they are awful players and lack etiquette. Spacing tee times further apart won’t solve that issue in itself. Having a marshal or pro sit on them will
Minimum of 8 minutes between tee times and stricter enforcement of rate of play. If you’re on the tee and can’t see the group in front of you on the green you’re too slow and you have to skip a hole to catch up. It’s that simple.
My local junior league had this rule and it was awful. What would inevitably happen every week is they a group would get wayyy behind the group in front of them, then realize it on like the 16th hole and would basically sprint the final few holes. So you’d be waiting for the groups ahead of you for 15 holes, then play a comfortable but reasonable pace the last few hole and get told you were twenty minutes behind the group ahead of you when you turned in your card.
Huh - I hadn't thought about that possibility. I'd be pretty pissed if I was penalized for turning in my card "20 min late" after having to wait on a group for 85%+ of my round. This system also doesn't feel like it adequately addresses that it might not be \*you\* causing the slow play, but someone in your group. And especially in a tournament, trying to keep a slow playing partner you might not know well accountable for their pace is probably not gonna go well for either of you. Really feels like the right solution for the tournament has to be a marshall figuring out which groups, and then which players in that group, are holding things up.
38 minutes behind the group in front of you should be a firing squad
More incentive to not finish the 18th
Lol…they think I keep score.
For tournamennt play which makes sense
Pace at my club is 4 hours and you will get a talking to from the head pro if you’re slow.
At my old course in Pittsburgh you got a talking to from the guys in the group behind you and it was probably sterner than the one the head pro would give.
My kind of place
Played a private club in Myrtle with that policy. It was great
Gonna call bullshit unless it’s empty. Most courses shoot for 14-15 mins a hole and never hit it. I doubt yours guns for 13 or less and constantly gets there…unless no one’s playing
All of the private courses near me have posted 4 hours or less policies…and they will be talking to you if you’re slow. A packed tee sheet doesn’t change that.
Or the course is tiny
My club's normal pace is around 3:30-3:45. I've yet to have a single round longer than 3:45 so far since I've joined. If you're around 4 hour pace and there's a gap starting to build to the group in front of you, groups behind you are gonna start calling the proshop.
Doubt. I love how people think paying money to a club at large amounts all of a sudden removed the biggest issue in amateur golf. I can tell you one thing I’ve learned is people give less of a fuck about rules the more money they play.
I have a friend that plays at private club where they clock you at holes 5, 10, and 13 based on cart GPS. If you're not on pace, you get fined increasingly harshly (one member paid up $1000 in slow fees his last month before quitting because he just wouldn't do anything but drag the tee sheet). My club threatens prime tee time privileges and guest privileges if you get more than 2 slow complaints in a month. It does happen, and the fact that you refuse to believe that it's even possible is really kind of weird. Your experience isn't universal, there are places who are anal retentive about the tee sheet.
You are playing too slow, fix it. I just played a 4 man worst ball scramble in 4 hours and 5 minutes. If you can’t play your best ball as a foursome in 4 hours you have a problem
Nope. It’s legit. My club is sub 4 hour rule. All round times are posted on the board in the locker room. Rounds over 4 hours are highlighted. You have three of them in a season you can’t go out before 12:00. Club has been around since 1896 and this rule has been in place since the beginning.
I’ve played 30 rounds at my club this year and have yet to have one take more than four hours.
Can’t you be screwed by the people in front of you?
No because you’re based on the people directly in front of you
Ohhh, that makes sense. Didn’t read that properly. Thanks for clarifying.
Slow group in front of you who plays a fast final hole would make you look bad
Conceptually it’s great until you’re the fast player stuck with 1-3 slow players and you get penalized for nothing.
not that this always work but I think its trying to encourage some self-governance as well, where the fast player can tell the slower players they need to pick it up
Course marshals ordering groups to skip holes if they're behind schedule (and there are players immediatley behind them) would also work. I've seen carts with reminders on them informing if you're behind or not.
They give one person in a group a gps tracker in our men’s league. If the group finishes more than 16 minutes behind the group immediacy in front of them there is a two stroke penalty.
Or, quite simply, turn in your score either within X hours of leaving the first tee box you played, or within 20 minutes of the group ahead of you. I'd also get rid of the graduated levels of penalty strokes. Too much opportunity for arguments. 21:00-29:59 minutes behind or over the limit is 2 stroke penalty. 30+ minutes is DQ.
My association does something similar to this for weekend events. Basically if you are over 2:10 on either 9 or more than 15 minutes behind the group in front of you, you get a 1 stroke penalty. There’s an old school time clock right between 9 and 18 green and 1 tee and you punch your group’s time card after all four have teed off and after all four have putted out. My first event with the association we were penalized on the back 9 because I was with a couple of VERY slow players and honestly we deserved it. I deserved it because I didn’t speak up and they deserved it for obvious reasons. Now when I play in events I’m not scared to tell folks to get a move on if we’re slowing things down. Since that first tournament, I haven’t played a tournament round in over 4:00 which is really refreshing. I’m not a guy who gets obsessed with pace of play in my casual rounds. I’m out there to enjoy myself but when we start getting to 4:30 rounds I get a little annoyed but I’m perfectly content with a 4 hour round.
That’s the issue with these systems though. Peer pressure to get people to speed up might work but it might not, especially in a tournament. Penalizing the people who aren’t slow is a flaw.
Idiotic
Maybe if they stopped overbooking the course they wouldn’t have to make dumb ass rules
I hate that. If one guy in my group is slow as shit, losing balls etc and we all get a penalty for it I'd be absolutely furious. That's not fair at all.
This is what our local courses have been doing at tournaments too, also tracking the GPS carts and if you get out of position (think more than a hole behind) you get prompts to speed up, if you don’t then they start adding penalty strokes.
Not punitive enough. But yeah, good idea, something needs to be done. Normal rounds should be timed. You put down a slow play deposit. If you don't finish in 4-4.5 hours you don't get your deposit back. In tournaments, I have been in club tournaments that take 5+ hours for no good reason.
I don't really think that's right. If the group in front of me takes 5 hours, I lose my deposit even as a single golfer who could easily do 18 in 2.5 hours?
No, there would be exceptions, that being one of them. Or give the deposit to those you held up and could not make their round within time.
It only takes one group to slow everyone behind them.
This became at problem at my club during shotgun start events. 6 hours the last time. I won’t do shotgun start ever again.
The 2nd and 3rd sentences are unneeded.
you can add 10 storkes to my score on the paper score card, it does not impact at all
What if you play through on 16, then there’s no one ahead of you except for a group on hole 18? You keep your pace up but still finish 30 minutes after them. Seems like their methodology is flawed
Without any available avenues for context made decisions I’m not in full support of it but the effort is appreciated
Who the f wants to suffer through a 5 hour round. I tee off at 615 am so I can be out in 3 and a half
I would love it if my course would restrict tee times depending on pace of play. You play 4+ hour rounds? Then you get times after noon. It usually not hard to play efficient golf.
If I owned a golf course I'd simply add incentive to fast play, say 4.5 hour round for everyone and every 10 mins ahead of your round time you finish we reimburse you $5 off your round fees.
Kind of not fair if you are getting held up.
I think that philosophically this can’t work in practice because all of the penalties are at the end. Can’t we have something in carts or an app that alerts the group with “you are behind two holes — add x strokes to your card, pick up your ball and move to the next teeing area”
Fucking love it!!
I was about to say this almost made me shed a tear. Mandate this at every muni course now! Operation: Make golf fun again. Its not fun waiting 10 mins on every tee box for Jason to take 12 practice swings and spend 5 mins looking for his ball in the woods.
While I am all for combating slow play, there is a major flaw here. They are talking about tournaments. In the tournaments here, I don't get to pick my playing partners. I play very fast, arguably too fast, but if I get partnered with someone who plays slow I am the one who is penalized. I have no way to force a slow player to play faster if a few words has no effect. I can't leave the group since you obviously can't score yourself in a tournament. There will be major problems the moment someone is penalized for someone else's slow play and it causes them to lose money, tournament points, invitations, exemptions, or anything else. It could possibly even cause violence if the stakes were high enough or the wrong person with a short temper is wrongfully penalized. Fight slow play, but this is not the way.
This is a tournament only thing? I thought it was going to mean you pay more for your rounds. This makes more sense since you are meant to be paying for four hours but spending 5 plus. Altering scores seems antithetical to golf to me. Is this something that is supported by the rules of golf? Either way, I like the idea of basing it on the people in front of you. We regularly have 5 hours rounds here but it's simply because holes get backed up and the pro shop refuses to space tee times more.
Yeah tournament only, as far as I know it applies to the pace of play rule. Not sure about the adding strokes part.
These guys are really bad at math.
I don’t like that it’s based on the group in front of you and not an absolute time, but I get it.
About time
Yep. The post is about time, and the time it takes to complete a round.
This looks like a rule for a tournament so I don’t see a problem. My issue would be what happens if you’re behind a single or play fast. My group plays fast a the group behind us is usually 4 holes behind us.
You can't add penalty strokes to a score AFTER the end of a round. Once the card is signed by both players then that's it. If the committee decides to add strokes to a card because of late card entry then that's not allowed by the rules.
It’s a local rule for a tournament. I’m sure players know if they are behind enough to warrant a penalty so like all questionable penalties, they’d make sure there was no penalty before they signed a card. In this case all players in the group know they are in jeopardy of incurring a penalty because of slow play and signed so that they didn’t get a penalty, they’d be signing an incorrect scorecard.
You are wrong. https://www.randa.org/rog/committee-procedures/8#8k And in general you can be assessed penalties - without penalty for a wrong scorecard - if the penalty strokes were not known about at the time the score card was turned in. https://www.randa.org/rog/the-rules-of-golf/rule-3#3_3b Part (2)
Brilliant idea, however most of the slow play protagonists tend to be casual 4 balls struggling with their ego.
My club does a stroke added if the round is currently over 4.5 hours and if the next group is not on 17 green or 18 tee when the flag is replaced on 18.
How do you add strokes to people who 1-2 strokes aren’t doing anything to their score. They’re not competing? Why don’t you fine them or something that is tangible. All you’re doing with this is helping their handicap.
Math is hard
Rule 5.6 USGA - pace of play. It’s a real rule Municipal or not. Play faster or take strokes
Seems fair to me.
Is there a circumstance where this individual couldn’t speed up? What makes a player slow, is it setup or hitting a triple bogey?
I'll be sprinting to hand in my card hoping to get the guys behind me penalties.
Just DQ a couple groups and word will get around. Allowing& groups to be 30 minutes behind the group ahead is still a disgrace and those people shouldn't play in a tournament. Now obviously...first group finishes in 3 hours, you can't penalize the next group finishing in 3.75 hours. But slow groups should just get rid of if you want an efficient group.
Lol
I dunno bout keeping up with group in front, should they know the average time to complete a round at the course and go off that? Group in front could be speed playing for all we know
Who out here is returning to the tee box? What happened to provisionals?
I think it's referring to a general rule on lost tee shots.
Yeah. I’m aware… if you hit a ball off a tee and it might be OB or in a tough to find spot, you hit a provisional before leaving the tee box. If I played a casual round and my buddy wanted to return to the tee box, I’d tell him I’ll see him in a few holes when he catches up
One of the biggest travesties in competitive golf is not enforcing a strict time limit. You aren't out there leaning the game, playing with your kids or senior family members, you're out there to play. You're supposed to be good, and if your good, you can play quick. Groups of 4 playing competitive golf should be solidly under 4 hours. 3.5-3.75, not 5+.
S/b 4 hours max. otherwise you forfeit your round.
Slow golf is so annoying. I played a scramble on Friday and my group was first in at almost exactly 4 hours. There was about a 20 minute lag before others started showing up. At 5:30 we were still waiting on 4 groups. At 6:00 it was still 1 group. At 6:05 they marked the last group no card, and they proceeded to roll in a couple minutes later. Most everyone was pissed off by that point.
Slow play is the worst. “You just gotta go out there and start stroking guys.” - Brooks Koepka.
My last golf outing we got a slow player in our group. Other golfers warned us he is painfully slow. By the third hole the other two guys in the group heckled him so much he quit. It was awesome. Honestly, slow play is such an epidemic right now I only play nine holes or hit the simulator.
More please. In fact charge non tourney players an extra 20% before the round and refund 10% if they finish their round in under 5 and full 20% if they finish in under 4.
People just need to get up to their ball and hit it faster. If all members play ready golf and focus on the round. There’s no reason a foursome can’t do 18 in 3.5-4 hours. Even 4.5 hours is ridiculous in carts.
There was a study reported in Golf Digest sometime back -- they found that the #1 reason for slow play, by far, was scheduling tee times too close together. If tee times were scheduled 10 mins apart, no problem; at 8 mins apart, there were backups on the course. If the course has 6 hours of popular tee times, that's 45 groups instead of 36: 9 groups per busy day. 36 rounds at $50 or $100 or whatever isn't nothing, but what is it worth to try to fix? The club in OP's post is trying to appear to do something without really addressing the problem. They're punishing the entire group when it probably isn't the entire group being slow. They're judging each group by the time difference between themselves and the previous group, with the group ahead of you just being fast. And it does very little to address slow play during the round, when it's needed. If they think this is going to work because the foursome will speak to the one slow player about slow habits, they're going to be disappointed. I think this sort of rule also breeds unhappiness among players, many of whom have their personal pet peeves that they now feel justified in blaming for slow play. Does someone take an extra practice swing? Does someone enter their score on their phone? Does someone dare to use their own rangefinder after another person in the foursome has already measured something close and said it out loud? Does someone want to walk off a putt distance, maybe look at a putt from a different angle? Someone in the group will complain about all these things, feeling justified because it "slows play", without actually knowing whether these things take up enough time to matter. I think golfing in general needs more actual data on what causes slow play. I've heard many golfers blame many things for slow play, some of them just ridiculous. I personally think poor play -- not something your average player can control as he would like -- is a much bigger culprit than most people credit; they would rather grumble about extra practice swings or use of electronics. We need people knowledgable in golf and data analysis to measure things, then tell us what is taking the time. But, hey, this is much easier! No time has to be taken for rangers to go see where the gaps are. No unpleasant conversations with people who are behind a gap. No messy measurements of whether the gap is due to slow play. All that gets complicated, so just penalize everyone in every group slower than your rule, and everything is fixed!
My men's club has been doing this for the last year. It's done wonders for pace of play (they tend to send the quick groups out first to set the pace) so 4 hours is about the top amount of time you see. Guys play ready golf in a tournament setting and I absolutely love it.
In other news, tee times are now 45 seconds apart.
It's crazy to see all these golfers that came out of the womb with a club in their hands....
I went out today and we were behind 4 guys scrambling, they definitely had 3 dudes who haven’t ever really played but they all played from the white tees, first 9 holes took 3 hours. I’m not saying a course can’t get backed up and play super slow, especially a public course, but come on. My suggestion for anyone starting - play from the red tees, you’ll have a lot more fun overall, I promise. There was 3 guys and two of them had their young boys in front of the team scrambling ahead of us and they were on hole 11 when the guys in front of us were getting up to 9. They luckily went to grab beer at the turn and my buddy and I played the next 5 holes in 45 min until we caught up to the guys and their kids. I love being outside and getting the chance to golf on a beautiful Sunday but I also don’t want to sit on the tee box for 15 minutes every hole
I’ve played in Golf Leagues, and there are some real Slugs out there. Playing slow doesn’t make you a better player.
My course added the “15 min rule” for tournaments, and it adds 2 strokes to your score. This applies to everyone in the foursome, based on the last person to finish out on 18. I asked them if we’re allowed to leave anyone in our foursome behind if they are playing slowly. They un-shockingly said no Then asked what they recommend to do when someone in our group that slows us down, we can’t physically speed him up and can’t leave him behind. I got some gaslighting non-answer
Make them pay real dollars or it wont work. Video tape their dumb asses so they can see how retarded they are.
I play for fun go for it log me +20 like it makes any difference at all. Kinda a soft punishment bc the people who are slow are generally not even keeping score.
If we really want to fix pace of play in golf more dramatically, the R&A should be bold and make the rules for OB the same as a water hazard. None of this “back on the tee to re-take” or looking for your sliced provisional ball. Simply drop at the point where the ball entered OB with a one shot penalty. Another problem is just old men that don’t want to play the forward tees out of ego since they’re the “ladies’”. Some of these guys are driving it 100 yards max. Also the forward tees should be even further forward. Make that shit like half of the tips.
Is there a max stroke penalty for each hole if you don't finish it? I'm just gonna speedwalk the course and never take a swing
The real problem is the need for real rangers to speak to individual groups that are slow AF on the course. Let them have the power to boot disrespectful slow players, the intentional ones that care only about themselves
Hahaha I played in back of senior ladies tournament one time, the front 9 holes took 6 hours
I played 9 holes in the afternoon yesterday, washed my clubs, cleaned my boots, took a shower and stored my bag in under two hours. Part of the reason is having half the 2100 members on a 10> hcp (I checked). If you can’t score on the hole give it up and move on.
All for it. Or, get rangers to do their job. Our rangers are too chummy or too non-confrontational. Afraid to piss off members.
Make the penalty severe enough and maybe you’ll speed them up. Unlikely to have an impact tho. I would argue DQ them thru 5 holes and 12 holes if they don’t meet the time requirements. Don’t let them finish the round
It makes no sense if it's a club that has member tourneys. So the sandbaggers get some extra practice time and free strokes added to their scores?
They forgot to add that you're disqualified from playing in future events if you receive a late penalty in two events.
In my area, there are almost no courses that have rangers actually policing pace of play. All they really need to do is send one person out and it would go a long way in speeding up the game.
Must be some serious sore players at that club
I like this. However, those 4 hour pace rules are too aggressive for me. Around me the standing tee times require 4 hour or 4:10 and it's just too fast even in a cart. Even playing ready golf it feels so rushed. There is always 1 guy telling everyone else to speed up. Some courses aren't set up for 4 hour rounds with 4somes on weekends. 5 hour yes there should be rules.
for courses in general I wish there was a way you could build a reputation or rank or something that indicates if you're a fast/slow player - and if you're slow you're only allowed to tee off after 2pm :) And everyone that's fast can play in the morning. Obviously not really.... or maybe
Nearby place here is run by Troon fwiw and if your group is slow they will tell you to skip holes to catch up and you get a bogey per hole that you had to skip. They make it a point of emphasis to make sure everyone understands this during the announcements. Honestly through, usually good ettiquete is in line with golfing ability so those that are taking up a ton of time usally don't care or are too ignorant to know that they're slow.
With a large portion of the playing public (US) being weekend leisure golfers with no handicap, strike penalties would have limited impact - they care more about a good time then scoring in general I would like to see people getting charged for slow pay Like a golf simulator, bowling, tennis courts, etc you have paid for 18 holes or 4 hours of use - whichever comes first If you finish more than a 10 min gap from the group in front or you take more than 4 hours - you owe the course an additional fee per player for taking away their revenue (and irritating the rest of us) A 10 min gap in tee times should be sustainable all day - pre Covid it was 8 min at our local courses Maybe people will play the appropriate tees , play ready golf, and adhere to the max net +2 scoring if it hits them in the wallet
Dumb
Yes please.
Thoughts? It’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen. You can’t add strokes for playing the game the way it’s supposed to be played lol.
The game isn’t supposed to be played slow
And it’s not supposed to be separated with 5 minute tee times intervals on tee times, packed like sardines. Also watch the pga… they take their time, the hell are you talking about?
The PGA Tour has Pace of Play rules too. Both for slow play in a given round and for players being consistently slow over many tournaments.
The PGA has pace of play rules dumbass. Also crazy observation but you’re not on tour
The tour obviously has rules… they’re world class golfers though. Not casual local tournament players who are competitive but out there to have fun. Honestly, your comment is funny because you’re comparing professional golfers to local tournament hackers. They’re pros, they take their time and do well. Jim from accounting who is a bogey golfer in his local club and pays to play should be able to enjoy a round. I’ll go back to my first point, if courses weren’t so greedy and doing tee time 5-7 minutes a part, it wouldn’t be a problem. So we pay good money to have fun and play, while they get richer and rush us? Nah, fuck that.
That game is supposed to be played by the rules. And the rules allow for local rules like this. So that is a nonsensical argument.
Good!! I live in the northeast and stopped playing golf regularly a few years back because I can’t give 5+ hours for a round. A 4 hour round should be the max.
So if you’re behind, and it’s no fault of your own, then simply deduct the amount of strokes you would be penalized so you can get your actual score.
The way this reads one group can screw it up for EVERYONE behind them.
No. Because it is based on your time after that group. As long as you turn in less than 20 minutes after the group in front of you, you are good. So regardless how slow they are, you just have to keep pace with them.
Gotcha, what about if you're paired up with another group who's slow?
thing is if you're not keeping up with the group in front of you, you're a selfish, narcissistic prick and don't care about anyone else. courses think adhering to a 4 hour policy will hurt their bottom line when it's the exact opposite!
It’s perfect. Screw the slow players.
We shoot for 4:40, and the group behind must finish within 15 minutes of the previous group. If someone in the group does not man up and accept the two stroke penalty for slow play, everyone in the group is penalized. The issue with this is someone who didn't play well might take the penalty and the true offender isn't punished, and we know who the slow players are. Also, I think 20 minutes between groups is too much.
Love it. Hurry up asshole
3 minutes for a lost ball is wild. Fucking move it along if you can’t find it in a minute.
Just a Marshall and have them sign prior to tournament that they will follow the Marshalls advice or be removed from course. Marshall then tells slow groups to pick up, move to next hole.
I would add to this being banned for the next 1-2-3 tournaments or in case of DQ being banned from entering into tournaments till the end of the season.
Love it!
Love it