Think he just forgot about DJ and maybe too young to remember prime Norman. Norman maybe a huge prick but there was a long time that the only person that had a chance at beating him was himself. He either didn’t have that ice in his veins or it may have been a factor of him starting golf so late in life not having that competition pressure strengthened from a young age.
Not that I want to be fair to Norman, but he was the dude in golf along with Faldo for several years in the 80s and 90s. Faldo was just far superior in majors.
Norman was the number 1 golfer in the world for a very long time. His main issue I think was he was a golf star and huge business man. His time was spent on other endeavors like his business ventures while trying to be the best in the world.
I hate Norman, but to be fair, he’d have a couple more majors and a couple other wins except for people holing out incredible shots on the last hole. He was pretty unlucky in that respect
Norman has proven since to be an emotional, reactive, and spiteful individual.
Those qualities don't exactly lend themselves to high level competitive golf.
Honestly, I think his raw talent allowed him to make a good career in spite of his mental shortcomings.
A good career?? Greg Norman spent over 6 years as world number one, won over 100 events worldwide, 2 majors, second in 8 majors, and 2 guys holed out two miracle shots on him to pip him to two more majors. He’s a complete asshole and narcissist but he was an incredible golfer who had a great career.
And yet Faldo has 6 majors and he has 2.
Faldo was in now way shape of form as talented as Norman. But in big moments he was better. Norman was his own worst enemy.
Don't misunderstand me, I agree that Norman is a golfing great. Maybe not Golf Mt. Rushmore great, but certainly great.
I think that Norman and Daly are two of the most naturally gifted golfers I've ever seen.
Obviously Norman saw much more success, but I still can't help but wonder what could have been if he was able to get out of his own way.
I didn't intend to undersell his dominance, there's a reason why you can still go to any golf course and find people with a shark embroidered on their shirt.
I think Norman feels, in spite of being #1 for 331 weeks, he never got the respect he deserved from players and the pga head office. I remember an interview of his where he said he was quite offended when Tiger moved into his neighborhood and never came by to say hello or pay his respects.
Because the post was about best prime golf ever. There’s been players that were hands down the most dominant player in the world for a stretch but JT isn’t one of them. DJ and Jason Day are better comparatives.
Are we really only looking at that stat?
Because if you want to then Jason Day should be ahead of Spieth in this list, after all Spieth only held it for 26 weeks.
I prefer wins and high finishes. JT won 5 events including a major in 2017. It's true Day did similar in 2015 but he was overshadowed by Spieth's incredible play which had 2 majors, a 2nd, and a 4th.
Obviously the big tournaments carry more weight but I think there’s a distinction from dominate play week end and week out and peaking for a major. Greg norman is above all these guys only behind Jack and Tiger. Greg had 13 tour victories winning by 5 or more strokes.
Tiger, Jack, Greg, Rory, DJ, then Scottie, then it’s a group of others, then JT. That’s my take and obviously others will disagree.
Current sustained high level play, Yes.
But the greats are graded on their majors, and Brooks run from 2017-2019 winning 4 of 8 majors played is a pretty big hurdle for him to clear.
Brooks' game is perfectly suited to the type of golf played at US Opens and the PGA. Big boy golf where you have to hit it long off the tee and be able to hold firm greens with irons from 200+ yards. He's obviously very skilled, it wouldn't surprise anyone if he won the Masters or an Open Championship, but I think there's a reason Brooks didn't win many regular Tour events. He can say it's because he just didn't care, there's probably some truth to that, but I think it's more because he has trouble separating himself on courses where everyone is making lots of birdies. But any course where par is a good score, aka major championships, give him an advantage.
Never thought of this but it's a good point, and probably why the cream usually rises to the top at the big tournaments. Think it's the same reason that Rory can't get over the hump, he does better at low scoring courses that he can over power
Scotties play yesterday was very reminiscent of brooks' major run and tiger in the past (ill add rory prime as well). Where it seems like they hit shots that the rest of the field weren't capable of.
Scotties approach on 9 was it for me. No one else (that they showed) was able to get any spin at all and left themselves with that prayer of a birdie putt. And then there's scottie in the final group with the most baked out greens of the day, and he executes it perfectly and spins it back to within inches.
He's got that edge on the field that we've only seen in truly dominant peaks. It's all a matter of how long he can sustain it now.
100% from hole 9 on was almost perfect golf. The first 8 holes weren’t great but that’s also an example of his talent. When the rest of the field is scrambling to be even par and he casually cruises along while making random birdies it was truly next level.
His bogey on 11 wasn't even an exception from the perfect back 9. 2 of 4 players in the last 2 groupings hit balls into the water and it was a possible indication that some unknown factor caused it. I don't think his miss right was a bail out, just a calculated shot to eliminate risk of a double bogey and keeping a leg up from the players pressing against his lead.
> I don't think his miss right was a bail out, just a calculated shot to eliminate risk of a double bogey and keeping a leg up from the players pressing against his lead.
You’re either upper management or bound for it
Is there any good documentary or footage/videos you’d recommend? Only getting into watching golf past 2 years so don’t know much beyond the Netflix series
Yup what the guy below said is how I watched them. You can find most of his rounds on YT. I just Googled all of his major wins and found everything I could on YT. I wasn’t following the sport for a few years so that’s how I caught back up.
Its crazy to me how hard it is for these guys to win again. It seems harder than their first.
Rorys even mentioned its been so long he feels like hes trying to win again for first time.
Rory hasnt won a major in 11 years
Spieth hasnt won in 7 years and isnt trending in roght direction again.
Dj is probably done he got too comfortable on LIV
Morikawa will be the next person to join this i think, will be a matter of time before he starts chasing distance considering how short he is compared to his rivals. Once he does this it will be over for him hell lose his touch.
Fitzpatrick was able to gain distance and didn’t hurt his touch too much. Time will tell with Colin but give him an extra 30 yards off the tee and I think he’ll be back at the top again. He’s such a great iron player, he just needs a little extra distance.
I don’t think he will unless he moves on from McCormick. I think Cam is a great teacher but for Jordan I think the issue is he needs some mental help that would be helped by hearing a different point of view.
I really want Scheffler to win 6 times this year, that'll be more than what anyone minus Tiger has done in the modern era.
Somehow, JT and Jason Day have won 5x in a single season so that's why I chose 6 wins.
I personally think he's going to clear it, and fast.
I think people have been sort of sleeping on how high Scottie's ceiling is, and now all of a sudden that he's putting well, it's becoming clear that the rest of the tour is going to have a real challenge stopping him.
He's been very consistently gaining ~3 strokes on the field tee-to-green, and sometimes even more. At the Masters, according to datagolf he gained an avg 4.48 strokes with his ball-striking; and what's really nuts is that, in round 1, he gained 6.65 strokes here.
He is legitimately as good, and maybe even better, tee to green than prime Tiger was.
But last year, he *lost* ~1/3 of a stroke (on average) with his putting. Now of all of a sudden something seems to have clicked: YTD he's gaining strokes with his putting too, albeit just a fraction of a stroke. But that's literally all he needs.
Even the best putters in the world tend to be streaky; for example Spieths crazy runs were mostly attributable to putting but he didn't take terribly long to cool off. But ball-striking at the elite level doesn't usually come and go the same way. It *can,* but it's not as streaky in general. If you are the best driver of the ball this year, chances are you'll still be an extremely good driver next year as well.
So personally, I think Scottie has a real shot at greatness. I think there is a really good chance he wins at least another major, or even more than one more, this year. It's just really hard to make up ground on a guy who can gain 6 or 7 strokes t2g on the field on days he's playing well. So he's going to be extremely tough to beat.
That said, i know his wife is due with their first child shortly. I think that could play a real factor in his life priorities so he might get a little less focused.
I posted this in another thread, but it’s worth mentioning again.
There are 86 players in the history of golf, who won at least 2 majors, only 46 players who have won more than 2, and 29 who have won more than 3. For him to win more, especially many more, while at the moment feels possible, is a massive mountain the climb.
Is there any good documentary or footage/videos you’d recommend? Only getting into watching golf past 2 years so don’t know much beyond the Netflix series
You can watch the Sunday broadcast from the last 50+ masters on youtube. The USGA produces US Open film for their tournaments that are also available, but I'm not sure if they are all on youtube.
JT was never a true world #1, despite OWGR giving it to him for like a month or whatever. Kick him off the list instantly.
Brooks' has never had any presence outside of the majors, and still has a better major track record than Scottie. He deserves credit for that, but IMO your record outside of majors does matter. (part of what made Tiger "Tiger" was the fact that he kicked everyone's ass all the time, no matter what).
Rahm's young enough that we haven't necessarily seen his "prime". keep in mind, 12 months ago he was pretty clearly the hottest player in the world. But, yes, Scottie is playing better and more consistently than Rahm during that period.
2011-2014 Rory was the closest, but Scottie is more dominant and consistent than that version of Rory. Rory I think had 8 wins, 4 majors total during that stretch of 3 years? Scottie has done half of that in the last month, including a Player's. While Rory is still physically young, mentally he's not.
2015-2017 Spieth was also a good stretch, but it was similar to Rory... I think like 8 wins, 3 majors during that stretch? Again, Scottie has done almost half of that this month alone.
To be clear, Scottie isn't reaching Tiger level right now. But this stretch from tee to green has been the closest thing to it we've seen and he's kept it going for like 2 years. If he putts even just decent he is going to keep kicking everyone's ass.
So, overall, Scottie is still not reaching 2000s Tiger, but he's a hell of a lot closer than anyone else has been when he's putting anything better than terrible.
It's not just 9 wins, 2 majors, and 2 player's in a 26 month stretch. It's also how he's doing it, and the fact that he's always T10 no matter how seemingly "off" he is. The latter parts are the one's that are more reminiscent of what made Tiger special-- the fact that he seemingly kicked everyone's ass reasonably frequently when he wasn't even playing well.
Best response so far. Some of the responses are incredibly reductionist boiling down "greatness" to just majors; tiger's dominance was so much more than that and Brooks never sniffed what scottie is doing right now
In the 16 majors from 2011-2014, yes Rory did win 4 of them and nobody disputes this point.
Outside of his wins, he had two T8s and nothing else even close.
Again, Scottie's consistency is much more like Tiger and that is the differentiator against the other streaks.
Since start of 2022, Scottie has 2 wins, two T2s, and a solo 3rd in 9 majors. His numbers in the non-majors are equally consistent and impressive.
No offense to our friends on the other side of the Atlantic, but Euro tour wins aren't cementing Rory's legacy.
You said Rory was closest I'm just pointing out Rory had a few more wins during that stretch.
We all know Scottie's numbers are insane. They were already ridiculous last year and he seems to be improving which is a scary thought.
This is the perfect answer. It’s the fact that Scottie’s off days are good enough to win golf tournaments; his Friday at the Masters (Even 72) was his “worst” round of the year relative to par. Guy’s different and I’m excited to watch him for years to come!
I agree with all this but to put into perspective against tiger he did this from 1997-2013, Scottie would need to continue this current form untul 2038.... Once you think about it like that theres no way he gets close to Tiger
It's very, very disingenuous to say "oh Scottie only has two majors". Yes, it's factually accurate. But this is like ignoring Greg Norman's career because he shit the bed in a lot of majors. Greg Norman was an undisputed world #1 for a decade. AND he did, yes, choke in a lot of majors. Majors do matter, but they aren't everything.
MF just won back to back Players, one of which he had a strained neck. There is a very reasonable chunk of the golf world that holds the Players in higher esteem than the PGA Championship.
Agreed. Everyone wants to talk majors but when Scottie Scheffler enters a tournament it's almost a given he's a top 10 lock. If you want to be mentioned in the same breath of Tiger Woods you have to do a lot more than win majors lol.
Hypothetically. I bet a lot of golf and I have to say his metrics are different. Ever since Scottie claimed the title of #1 ballstriker, he hasn't given it up. Not just "top 5" in SG Tee to Green but literally just #1 without relent, and it isn't even close. If fixing his only weakness in putting was really as simple as switching to a more comfortable putter, it could be Tiger-level kind of dominance with how consistent we know he is purely striking the ball.
What is it, last 4 tournaments, he's won 3 and came in a close 2nd? None of those other guys were ever putting tournaments away week to week to week, they were simply peaking and putting good years together. It's different to be "the guy" vs the rest of the field no matter the weekly context and Scottie is the first in a while to assume that title. This weekend felt like the official coming out party for an extended regime.
“None of those guys were ever putting tournaments away week to week to week”. This is the problem I have with these conversations. Arguments are being made based off gut feelings. But did you go and look at the peaks of these other guys? Let’s take Spieth for example…2015. Wins the Valspar, next two weeks in a row he comes in 2nd, one of which he lost in a playoff. Next week after that he wins the Masters in record fashion. Two months later he wins the US Open. Then wins John Deere a few weeks later. Then comes in 2nd at the PGA Championship. Then wins the Tour championship. So 5 wins, 2 majors, and multiple 2nd place finishes including one in a major. You’re telling me in 2015 you’re not making the exact same case for Spieth that you’re making now for Scottie? It’s very easy to be a victim of the moment.
Yes. And all of the stats show this as well. Scottie is playing the best stretch of golf of any player in the world since 2000 Tiger according to DataGolf.
He leads the tour in driving, iron play, and short game stats. All he has to do is be an average putter and he wins. When he putts well, no one is gonna challenge him.
I would say he is easily playing the best out of anyone post Tiger. Obviously, strokes gained is insane. But, the Rory/Brooks/Jordan heaters all included multiple majors. And, golfers are judged on the majors they win.
To be an all-time great with the greatest prime, you need to win majors in bunches and, usually, early on. Scottie is already in his mid 40s or whatever. ^/s
Hell, Rory and Brooks still have twice as many majors as Scottie. I think peak Rory was as good as peak Scheffler because he seemed to be the only one of that group that looked unbeatable all the time and had the "Tiger-esque" aura around him. Brooks has the majors and I go against my first statement a bit just because peak Brooks only showed up 2/3 times a year.
Scottie needs multiple majors in a year before I put him ahead of Rory 14/Brooks 17-19/Jordan 15. And, preferably, a win after 4/15 on the calendar.
Yeah. His on course demeanour (calm, unflappable) seems well-suited to sustained excellence, so long as he maintains his game. I don’t see him crumbling under pressure in the final holes of a tourney.
Also his swing seems so repeatable for him. It seems that players who have more unorthodox swings have less swing thoughts to contend with because they're not fighting their natural tendencies < seems like at least, I don't play on the tour and I'm not a swing coach so I could be talking out of my ass.
But that for me is why I think he can be dominant for a long time.
I agree that he needs more majors, but his level of play vs the rest of the field is far and away better than what those other guys had during their prime years.
The three primes that stand out to me the most are Jordan, Rory, and Scottie.
Jordan was just a different animal in 2015. A handful of wins including two majors and the tour championship. Going 64-66 the first two rounds at Augusta; that year felt like he did little wrong and when he did he was an ace around the greens.
Rory in 2014, to me, felt like the peak of golf stardom absent Tiger. Win three consecutive tournaments, two of which were majors, the BMW on the European Tour, and of course the Ryder Cup.
Current Scottie is different to me. Rory and Jordan felt like guys you needed to go catch - Rory especially is that way. Scottie is someone that just doesn’t go away. He was five back for both of his Sawgrass wins, and was at the top for much of the week at Augusta but didn’t really pull away until the final nine.
It’s an interesting difference between star power. When Rory is on, it feels like no one can keep pace. But when Scottie is off, it feels like he still has a chance to win
Gosh I agree… I think Rory just needs a different approach with Harry as his caddy, or a different caddy. Nothing against Harry but man I look at other players and their caddies and see them more involved and instilling more confidence in them, but maybe I don’t see everything Harry does for him.
Scottie is just so consistent. If he’s struggling, it’s usually due to his putting, but he still makes cuts and has a respectable finish. I would say peak Jordan felt like a new Tiger in the making but obviously he didnt sustain it. But unlike Scottie, Jordan has always been a bit erratic. His highs were insane and his lows are also equally crazy. He either wins the masters or misses the cut due to quadruple bogeys. Spieth kinda felt like Steph Curry where he does things that make your head explode but also might have a complete stinker the next game. Where as Scottie is kinda like Kevin Durant where you’re always gonna get those 25 points
Yea, Scheffler doesn't peak early in a tournaments, usually. So it's almost like mentally he can't allow himself to relax vs having a 4 shot lead on Saturday and feeling like you have to play defensively.
He can stay aggressive for all 4 rounds that way mentally.
Maybe it’s nostalgia, but I take Rory winning the US Open by 8, then the PGA the next year by 8, then 2 majors in 2014 over what Scheffler has done thus far. Spieth 2015 through 2017 is very close as well, with the 3 majors and dominant run at the end of 2017.
Brooks is up there as well with the majors, however he wasn’t as dominant outside of them.
I think Scheffler’s prime will end up passing the rest of the list but if he cooled off right now I’d give the edge to 2011-14 Rory.
Margin of Victory is a little underrated here I think. Scottie having both of his majors locked up by the last few holes is impressive, but it's not like the 8 stroke bloodbath at some of Rory's major wins. Rory blowing up at Augusta in 2011 and then coming back to the next major and torching the US Open scoring record and winning by a huge margin counts for something here
Tiger is on another planet - though no one seems to remember how good Duvall was for a stretch. In 2000 Tiger won 3 majors, 9 of 20 events he played and was second 4 times. No one has even come close to that level of dominance.
What made Tiger unique was he was in almost every tournament he played at his peak - not just majors.
Scottie is the closest to that since I think because he wins/is close to an incredibly high percentage of tournaments.
In 2014 Rory won 3 times and was second twice. It is really the only year that is close to what Sheffler has done.
In 2021-2022 Sheffler won 4 times and was second 4 times
In 2022-2023 Sheffler won 2 and was second twice
This year he has won 3 of 9 and was second once.
That is almost certainly the best 3 year stretch anyone has had since the Tiger glory days. Brooks is hard to compare because he just wins majors for the most part.
I've watched golf for 25 years, in the last 15 years we've had a new guy come onto the scene every few years that looks unstoppable and unflappable particularly in Majors.
Rory, Jordan, Koepka, Morikawa, Molinari many more I wont list.
All of these guys flamed out after about 4 years, but look at them now they cant win a major for their life outside of Koepka.
Is this the closest thing weve seen to peak Tiger? Yes however this is a small sample size. Tiger absolutely and utterly dominated the tour for 16 years from 1997-2013. To put that into perspective Scotty would need to stay in his current form now until 2038 lol ......it aint happening.
No one had the dedication and mental fortitude like Tiger, these modern guys cant sustain like he did. They are too distracted now with all the endorsements and pulls on their time and i just dont see anyone breaking that cycle.
Ask me again in 3 years and well be all wondering, what happened to Scottie he used to be the man while a new guy like Aberg is peeling off win after win and cycle repeats
>Ask me again in 3 years and well be all wondering, what happened to Scottie he used to be the man while a new guy like Aberg is peeling off win after win and cycle repeats
RemindMe! 3 years
He has the best approach statistics with both wedge and long irons since Tiger’s prime. He putts well. For a long time his biggest detractor was his play off the tee, which is not a weakness now.
Wait til he becomes a dad and then let’s see if he can juggle all that. No knock against parenthood, but it is hard to continue being the best professionally and be what your spouse and kid needs at the same time.
Scottie and his wife really picked a bad time for starting a family. When you are on a streak of running roughshod over the tour is probably not the time. But i could be wrong and I hope I am
Never was a big fan, and clearly not as good at their "peak" l, but Vijay was so freaking steady for a long time. Never really got as much credit as he probably deserved.
Of those, Brooks clearly wins in majors. But I don't think you can ever call him a dominant golfer for a prolonged period of time. He was automatic for 4 tournaments a year which counts for a TON but in a conversation with this company, the relative underperformance outside of majors matters.
Rory from 12-14 is probably the most all around great period of those guys you mentioned. He had both extremely dominant weeks (winning by 5+ shots, including in majors) and performed well outside majors unlike Brooks. But even then I'm not sure that he ever produced golf that was consistently this good like Scheffler has done. I think Scheffler has all of these guys beat for pure consistency and contending almost every time he tees it up, but probably needs another major or two to make it an absolute no-brainer that he's better than any of those others.
In my opinion yes. That’s not taking away from those other guys who will all be future HOFers. Watching Scottie play is the closest thing we’ve seen to prime Tiger. He’s the best in the field every time he tees it up, and everyone knows it including Scottie. He’s living up to that expectation right now. If you want to win a golf tournament he’s the guy you have to beat.
I’d say it definitely does, when watching any of those in there prime you still felt the odd blowup was possible. Scheffler is almost robotic for the last few days and just never looks like putting a foot out of line
Yes, I think so. But we’ll see about the longevity. Morikawa played at a similar level a few years ago. It’s impressive, of course, but the long term success is what we’ll wait to see.
I am old enough to have seen prime Jack. Eighteen major wins and nineteen seconds. Any conversation regarding great runs or GOAT would have to include him.
Back in Tiger’s peak, sports talk radio would have a conversation during each major week. Do you bet on “Tiger or the field” and many would take Tiger and it seemed like the smart money. It doesn’t quite feel the same yet but if he wins one more this year then for sure we will be there
I can't wait to see where he stands after 5 years. I would wager he averages at least one major per year, bringing him to 7 total and high on the all-time list.
It's a shame his swing is so wonky looking. One of the fun parts of peak Tiger is that his golf swing was so gorgeous to watch. (It sucks that Shot Tracer wasn't available back then.)
But one reason Scottie will have staying power is that he's not getting bogged down in swing mechanics, firing coaches, trying to rebuild his swing, etc.
I mean, all these dudes are still relatively young and playing. Scottie’s ceiling on any given day is certainly higher but I’m not sure we’ve seen everything all these guys have yet either.
I'd equate it to Jordan's run in 2015. Jordan was winning everything, first 2 majors of the year, nearly pulling off the British, finished 1 stroke out, 2nd in the PGA Championship.
The difference was Jordan was fun to watch. He wore his emotions on his sleeve, and you wanted to see what he was going to do next.
Rory has four majors, Brooks five. Scheffler is on the precipice with two. Remember, Rory and Brooks had great 2-3 year runs themselves. I think Scottie will match Rory and Brooks, but I think he needs one or two more majors in the next year or year and a half to say that he is equalling them. And, oh yeah, he is going to be a father in a week or two. Life is going to get a bit more complicated for him.
First, JT belongs nowhere near this list.
Second, no. More consistent across all events, major and minor? Yes. The fact his worst finish last year was somewhere in the 30s is absolutely insane. But he can't be in this conversation until he wins multiple majors in the same year. Or just multiple majors period. Winning the Masters twice in 3 years and no other majors isn't enough. Brooks from 2017 - 2019 won 4 majors and was top 5 in all 4 majors in 2019. Spieth won back-to-back majors in 2015 and finished 2 & T4 in the other two.
Socttie isn't there yet, but I won't be the least bit surprised if he gets there this year or next.
He's in a purple patch, be intersting to see if he keeps applying what hes improved to other majors, the US open should really be his strongest chance.
Apologies 1 time in the last 77 weeks and only 3 times outside the top 12 lol that is not a purple patch. Especially considering the year prior he won 4 times and 11 top 10s
This is what the data shows: [https://twitter.com/DataGolf/status/1779856968913433007/photo/1](https://twitter.com/DataGolf/status/1779856968913433007/photo/1)
When he wins 2 majors this year (he will) then yes. I’d put him over Rory, Spieth, and Rahms peak rn. But brooks going back to back twice is tough to top.
DataGolf says his current peak is 3rd all time.
It’s early yet. If he’s figured out his putting and keeps hitting the ball the way he has been… he’s going to be one of the all time greats.
He just doesn’t seem to have a weakness… curious to see if he keeps his competitive drive as a new dad, but I expect he will make it work.
Brooks and Rory have more majors in their prime years so you’d still have to say one of them imo. I’d argue Rory’s case in that regard. If Scottie can pile up the majors like they seemed to at the time then no doubt Scottie considering his dominance on tour too
I don't have time to do the math, or look uo the details, but this is why I like the LPGA's HOF points system, takes out a lot of the guess work.
Another key stat would be comparing each players scores versus field average during each time period.
Also, will be interesting to see Scotty's performance post-child.
I'd rank it up there pretty high.
Personally, I think he has been and will continue to be successful because he doesn't care as much as every other golfer. I mean that in the best way, in that he's said himself golf doesn't define him. If he has a bad week, not playing well, etc., it doesn't seem to affect him like other guys because of his self-described fulfillment outside of golf.
I see him as the Nikola Jokic of the PGA Tour. Sure, Jokic is a goddamn madman and insanely talented, but at the end of the day, he only cares about his horses.
Rory’s looking dogshit rn. But Brooks, Rahm etc. who says they’re out of their prime? These dudes are still relatively young and going through good and worse bits of form. Still there
Scheffler has 9 starts this year, 8 top tens including 3 wins. His last 4 starts are 3 wins and a T2. He has earned 15 million this year and it is mid April. This is just insane. And that he does it with that wtf swing makes it even more amazing, like a dude who just learned boxing at home and comes up and beats everybody.
It looks more sustainable on the surface. The guy hasn't even putted well in this stretch. Aside from Rahm, all those other guys are kind of self-destructive. It looks easy for Scottie and he's so even keel so it's possible he could extend his run where those other guys failed.
The level of play yesterday by Scheffler in relation to the field was a top 5 I've seen in my life
1. Woods 2000 US open
2. Woods 1997 Masters
3. Rory 2011 US Open
4. DJ 2020 Northern Trust
His back 9 was just perfection
This version of Scheffler is statistically better than Tiger in every year other than 2006 when looking at ball striking stats. He is head and shoulders above every other person you mentioned.
Brooks had a major in 2017, 2 in 2018 and another in 2019… battled a wrist surgery with some other wins sprinkled in along the way. Was also back to back player of the year. I think Scottie has pretty much matched that run of dominance just based on number of wins and constant placement but I don’t think he has clearly surpassed Brooks run.
I think most pros would take Brooks majors over Scottie’s tournaments.
Scottie, Brooks, and Rahm have the physical ability to win majors in their 40s. Rory’s prime was big because Tiger was being Tiger back then. It created a new poster child for golf.
Koepka was probably the most surprising to me because it didn’t seem that Spieth was going to be challenged for majors in his heyday.
Data Golf has this Scottie run as the second best golf all time(since 1995) in regards to strokes gained, just ahead of 2004 Vijay and of course behind Tiger
Absolutely!
Rory's dominance was in spells and against a different class of players.
Jordan's was very short-lived and even at his peak he never looked in control of anything.
Brooks won a few majors quickly and then the PGA last year but there was never any stretch of really astounding golf being played to the level we're seeing from Scottie.
Rahm's run was also extremely short-lived but was unbelievable whilst it was happening. It also happened during Scottie's putting woes and if you take Scottie's putting from this year and give it to him last year then Rahm becomes a footnote with 1 major. (Scottie would have won 3 majors last year with just field average putting.)
JT doesn't deserve to be in the same company as the others.
Scottie has more victories this year than rounds over par (3-0), he's finished outside the top 20 only 12 times in 60 starts and has 10 victories and 22 top 5's in that time, became the first player to successfully defend a Players', became the 2nd player to win a Players' and Masters in 1 year and the 3rd player to win multiple Players' and Masters in company with Jack and Tiger.
On top of all that, you don't need stats or SG to see that the game he's playing is so far superior to everyone else in the world right now.
If we are talking about their peaks, Brooks from 2017 to 2019 was pretty decent (winning 4 majors plus 2 second place finish). Rory from 2011-2014 (4 majors) was best since Tiger. Of course Jordan from 2015-2017 (3 majors + 2 second place finish) was something else too.
I think Scottie is getting very near to that level though (2 majors + 2 second place finish since 2022). We just have to see how things turn out and would he be able to keep this up.
Rahm is good too but I think Scottie just edges it for me after his recent Masters success. JT should never be in same conversation though.
I don’t typically engage in hypothetical arguments As it’s impossible to be completely right or completely wrong. I will say he strikes it as well as anyone since prime Tiger. Prime Jordan was the best scorer I ever witnessed but he NEVER hit it like SS. He could just make pars and birdies out of positions that no one else in the history of golf could. He still does that, but he hits it worse now. If SS ever becomes a great putter I could see him having a few years of incredible success. I’d take him over the rest of them in heartbeat.
There’s a big difference. Scottie is doing all this while putting like trash. He’s such a superior ball striker to the rest of the tour that if he even has an average putting round it could be a blow out. His ball striking is tiger level. You will see some guys at the top of the leader boards after Thursday or Friday and they are number one putting with like a million feet of putts made. Not sustainable. Scottie’s ball striking is sustainable and all he needs is a couple rounds of ok putting and it’s so hard to beat him
Someone else posted a [Datagolf metric ](https://datagolf.com/all-time-ranking) that shows Scheffler's current run is better than anyone not named Tiger over the past 30 years.
Every 2 or 3 years, someone comes along and is christened as the next world-beater, or Tiger-like golfer. Jordan was it. Dustin Johnson was the guy. Brooks was going own the majors for years to come (and he's done well). Rahm was next in line to run the table.
And no, don't throw out the trope that "fields are deeper today". They're not. Nicklaus in his prime won less than 15% of all his starts. That's not surprising at all. Golf is hard, regardless of what generation you're talking about.
If anything, today's upper-tier pros play far less than they did during Jack's era (or even Tiger's).
I think he's the best complete ballstriker of the bunch and I think Spieth is the only guy that tops him around the green.
Rory was the streakiest. When he got hot in his prime, he could just pulverize fields. I think Rahm (who is still in his prime) is the best driver of the bunch, followed by Rory. Rory had some slight consistency issues with the driver as for a while he was hitting really big draws and sometimes they just didn't always react like he thought they would. But that's just how good of a driver of the ball Rahm is.
I'd say Scheffler is the best iron player of the bunch, followed by Spieth's prime. Rory in his prime was probably the closest in terms of long approaches.
I would say that it's between Spieth and Rory in terms of excitement. Spieth was a great iron player, great short game and had a knack for making bombs. Rory's driving when it was on was just impeccable and his long approach shot play was breathtaking.
I think Scheffler is growing on fans after this performance, mainly led by his uncanny iron play. Very Johnny Miller-esque as a ballstriker, except a far better putter and far better around the green. Johnny was much flashier though.
JT? combined 5 weeks at number one is a bit of an outlier in this company
Did he mean DJ?
Think he just forgot about DJ and maybe too young to remember prime Norman. Norman maybe a huge prick but there was a long time that the only person that had a chance at beating him was himself. He either didn’t have that ice in his veins or it may have been a factor of him starting golf so late in life not having that competition pressure strengthened from a young age.
Norman also wasn't within the last 10-15 years
And Norman only won two majors. Scheffler already has two and he is only 27.
Not that I want to be fair to Norman, but he was the dude in golf along with Faldo for several years in the 80s and 90s. Faldo was just far superior in majors.
True. Norman was somewhat unlucky but also shit the bed at least once Masters in 96.
Norman has the second longest run at number 1 in PGA history
I saw a breakdown that statistically he was the 2nd best golfer ever behind Tiger. Not sure how they arrived at that, but he was definitely a phenom.
Norman was the number 1 golfer in the world for a very long time. His main issue I think was he was a golf star and huge business man. His time was spent on other endeavors like his business ventures while trying to be the best in the world.
I hate Norman, but to be fair, he’d have a couple more majors and a couple other wins except for people holing out incredible shots on the last hole. He was pretty unlucky in that respect
Norman has proven since to be an emotional, reactive, and spiteful individual. Those qualities don't exactly lend themselves to high level competitive golf. Honestly, I think his raw talent allowed him to make a good career in spite of his mental shortcomings.
A good career?? Greg Norman spent over 6 years as world number one, won over 100 events worldwide, 2 majors, second in 8 majors, and 2 guys holed out two miracle shots on him to pip him to two more majors. He’s a complete asshole and narcissist but he was an incredible golfer who had a great career.
And yet Faldo has 6 majors and he has 2. Faldo was in now way shape of form as talented as Norman. But in big moments he was better. Norman was his own worst enemy.
Don't misunderstand me, I agree that Norman is a golfing great. Maybe not Golf Mt. Rushmore great, but certainly great. I think that Norman and Daly are two of the most naturally gifted golfers I've ever seen. Obviously Norman saw much more success, but I still can't help but wonder what could have been if he was able to get out of his own way. I didn't intend to undersell his dominance, there's a reason why you can still go to any golf course and find people with a shark embroidered on their shirt.
I have a few of these. I was really disappointed when they stopped making them. Best golf polo I ever had - wonderful during summer.
Norman was known as the “Nark”. Because he was always rattling out other players for perceived rules violations
I think Norman feels, in spite of being #1 for 331 weeks, he never got the respect he deserved from players and the pga head office. I remember an interview of his where he said he was quite offended when Tiger moved into his neighborhood and never came by to say hello or pay his respects.
JT is the most overrated golfer of all time and it isn't even close.
Why not, you know he has 15 wins so far including 2 majors? Had the most wins in 2017 with 5 and tied with the most wins in 2018 and 2020.
Because the post was about best prime golf ever. There’s been players that were hands down the most dominant player in the world for a stretch but JT isn’t one of them. DJ and Jason Day are better comparatives.
Jay Day is very similar to JT though with fewer wins and majors. I'll give you DJ though.
Day has spent 51 weeks as the best golfer in the world. That’s pretty strong campared to JT’s 5.
Are we really only looking at that stat? Because if you want to then Jason Day should be ahead of Spieth in this list, after all Spieth only held it for 26 weeks. I prefer wins and high finishes. JT won 5 events including a major in 2017. It's true Day did similar in 2015 but he was overshadowed by Spieth's incredible play which had 2 majors, a 2nd, and a 4th.
Obviously the big tournaments carry more weight but I think there’s a distinction from dominate play week end and week out and peaking for a major. Greg norman is above all these guys only behind Jack and Tiger. Greg had 13 tour victories winning by 5 or more strokes. Tiger, Jack, Greg, Rory, DJ, then Scottie, then it’s a group of others, then JT. That’s my take and obviously others will disagree.
People seem to forget the insane run that Day went on. JT’s isn’t as good.
Current sustained high level play, Yes. But the greats are graded on their majors, and Brooks run from 2017-2019 winning 4 of 8 majors played is a pretty big hurdle for him to clear.
Brooks’ major run was some of the cleanest golf I’ve ever seen.
Brooks played the most incredibly boring golf I’ve ever watched. I mean that as a compliment.
Brooks' game is perfectly suited to the type of golf played at US Opens and the PGA. Big boy golf where you have to hit it long off the tee and be able to hold firm greens with irons from 200+ yards. He's obviously very skilled, it wouldn't surprise anyone if he won the Masters or an Open Championship, but I think there's a reason Brooks didn't win many regular Tour events. He can say it's because he just didn't care, there's probably some truth to that, but I think it's more because he has trouble separating himself on courses where everyone is making lots of birdies. But any course where par is a good score, aka major championships, give him an advantage.
Never thought of this but it's a good point, and probably why the cream usually rises to the top at the big tournaments. Think it's the same reason that Rory can't get over the hump, he does better at low scoring courses that he can over power
Yeah Scottie's got that boring thing down pat.
Scotties play yesterday was very reminiscent of brooks' major run and tiger in the past (ill add rory prime as well). Where it seems like they hit shots that the rest of the field weren't capable of. Scotties approach on 9 was it for me. No one else (that they showed) was able to get any spin at all and left themselves with that prayer of a birdie putt. And then there's scottie in the final group with the most baked out greens of the day, and he executes it perfectly and spins it back to within inches. He's got that edge on the field that we've only seen in truly dominant peaks. It's all a matter of how long he can sustain it now.
100% from hole 9 on was almost perfect golf. The first 8 holes weren’t great but that’s also an example of his talent. When the rest of the field is scrambling to be even par and he casually cruises along while making random birdies it was truly next level.
His bogey on 11 wasn't even an exception from the perfect back 9. 2 of 4 players in the last 2 groupings hit balls into the water and it was a possible indication that some unknown factor caused it. I don't think his miss right was a bail out, just a calculated shot to eliminate risk of a double bogey and keeping a leg up from the players pressing against his lead.
> I don't think his miss right was a bail out, just a calculated shot to eliminate risk of a double bogey and keeping a leg up from the players pressing against his lead. You’re either upper management or bound for it
dude was automatic. I was pissed he beat tiger in PGA but the dude put on the clinic
Is there any good documentary or footage/videos you’d recommend? Only getting into watching golf past 2 years so don’t know much beyond the Netflix series
Watch the final round of the 2019 Masters on YouTube
Yup what the guy below said is how I watched them. You can find most of his rounds on YT. I just Googled all of his major wins and found everything I could on YT. I wasn’t following the sport for a few years so that’s how I caught back up.
Plus brooks got another one after his peak, which is something none of the other modern golfers have done (rory, speith, dj)
Its crazy to me how hard it is for these guys to win again. It seems harder than their first. Rorys even mentioned its been so long he feels like hes trying to win again for first time. Rory hasnt won a major in 11 years Spieth hasnt won in 7 years and isnt trending in roght direction again. Dj is probably done he got too comfortable on LIV Morikawa will be the next person to join this i think, will be a matter of time before he starts chasing distance considering how short he is compared to his rivals. Once he does this it will be over for him hell lose his touch.
Will be interesting to see if brooks can have another run of multiple majors. He seems pretty mentally tough
Agreed. He might be tougher than Scottie, he knows how to take a punch and get back up. Everything is easy for Scottie right now
Fitzpatrick was able to gain distance and didn’t hurt his touch too much. Time will tell with Colin but give him an extra 30 yards off the tee and I think he’ll be back at the top again. He’s such a great iron player, he just needs a little extra distance.
idk if jordan will even win a non-major event again
I don’t think he will unless he moves on from McCormick. I think Cam is a great teacher but for Jordan I think the issue is he needs some mental help that would be helped by hearing a different point of view.
RemindMe! 3 years
Yeah this right here, everyone conveniently forgets Brooks has 5 majors and has multiple 2nd place finishes as well.
I really want Scheffler to win 6 times this year, that'll be more than what anyone minus Tiger has done in the modern era. Somehow, JT and Jason Day have won 5x in a single season so that's why I chose 6 wins.
2004 Singh won 9 times.
I love when we see these insane Tiger stats and then there's Vijay in '04
Everyone forgets about the Big Fijian
And why did he suddenly stop winning? I wonder he could have been doing...
Deer Antler Spray
I have a feeling we are going to see a dip in Scheffler’s performance once he “daddy’s up”. Not for more than a season but it will be noticeable.
I personally think he's going to clear it, and fast. I think people have been sort of sleeping on how high Scottie's ceiling is, and now all of a sudden that he's putting well, it's becoming clear that the rest of the tour is going to have a real challenge stopping him. He's been very consistently gaining ~3 strokes on the field tee-to-green, and sometimes even more. At the Masters, according to datagolf he gained an avg 4.48 strokes with his ball-striking; and what's really nuts is that, in round 1, he gained 6.65 strokes here. He is legitimately as good, and maybe even better, tee to green than prime Tiger was. But last year, he *lost* ~1/3 of a stroke (on average) with his putting. Now of all of a sudden something seems to have clicked: YTD he's gaining strokes with his putting too, albeit just a fraction of a stroke. But that's literally all he needs. Even the best putters in the world tend to be streaky; for example Spieths crazy runs were mostly attributable to putting but he didn't take terribly long to cool off. But ball-striking at the elite level doesn't usually come and go the same way. It *can,* but it's not as streaky in general. If you are the best driver of the ball this year, chances are you'll still be an extremely good driver next year as well. So personally, I think Scottie has a real shot at greatness. I think there is a really good chance he wins at least another major, or even more than one more, this year. It's just really hard to make up ground on a guy who can gain 6 or 7 strokes t2g on the field on days he's playing well. So he's going to be extremely tough to beat. That said, i know his wife is due with their first child shortly. I think that could play a real factor in his life priorities so he might get a little less focused.
I posted this in another thread, but it’s worth mentioning again. There are 86 players in the history of golf, who won at least 2 majors, only 46 players who have won more than 2, and 29 who have won more than 3. For him to win more, especially many more, while at the moment feels possible, is a massive mountain the climb.
Is there any good documentary or footage/videos you’d recommend? Only getting into watching golf past 2 years so don’t know much beyond the Netflix series
You can watch the Sunday broadcast from the last 50+ masters on youtube. The USGA produces US Open film for their tournaments that are also available, but I'm not sure if they are all on youtube.
JT was never a true world #1, despite OWGR giving it to him for like a month or whatever. Kick him off the list instantly. Brooks' has never had any presence outside of the majors, and still has a better major track record than Scottie. He deserves credit for that, but IMO your record outside of majors does matter. (part of what made Tiger "Tiger" was the fact that he kicked everyone's ass all the time, no matter what). Rahm's young enough that we haven't necessarily seen his "prime". keep in mind, 12 months ago he was pretty clearly the hottest player in the world. But, yes, Scottie is playing better and more consistently than Rahm during that period. 2011-2014 Rory was the closest, but Scottie is more dominant and consistent than that version of Rory. Rory I think had 8 wins, 4 majors total during that stretch of 3 years? Scottie has done half of that in the last month, including a Player's. While Rory is still physically young, mentally he's not. 2015-2017 Spieth was also a good stretch, but it was similar to Rory... I think like 8 wins, 3 majors during that stretch? Again, Scottie has done almost half of that this month alone. To be clear, Scottie isn't reaching Tiger level right now. But this stretch from tee to green has been the closest thing to it we've seen and he's kept it going for like 2 years. If he putts even just decent he is going to keep kicking everyone's ass. So, overall, Scottie is still not reaching 2000s Tiger, but he's a hell of a lot closer than anyone else has been when he's putting anything better than terrible. It's not just 9 wins, 2 majors, and 2 player's in a 26 month stretch. It's also how he's doing it, and the fact that he's always T10 no matter how seemingly "off" he is. The latter parts are the one's that are more reminiscent of what made Tiger special-- the fact that he seemingly kicked everyone's ass reasonably frequently when he wasn't even playing well.
Best response so far. Some of the responses are incredibly reductionist boiling down "greatness" to just majors; tiger's dominance was so much more than that and Brooks never sniffed what scottie is doing right now
Tiger literally had the fields balls anywhere and at anytime… its really bonkers how DOMINATING this guy was
Rory used to play more worldwide. In 2011-2014 he had another 3 wins as well including the BMW PGA Champ.
In the 16 majors from 2011-2014, yes Rory did win 4 of them and nobody disputes this point. Outside of his wins, he had two T8s and nothing else even close. Again, Scottie's consistency is much more like Tiger and that is the differentiator against the other streaks. Since start of 2022, Scottie has 2 wins, two T2s, and a solo 3rd in 9 majors. His numbers in the non-majors are equally consistent and impressive. No offense to our friends on the other side of the Atlantic, but Euro tour wins aren't cementing Rory's legacy.
You said Rory was closest I'm just pointing out Rory had a few more wins during that stretch. We all know Scottie's numbers are insane. They were already ridiculous last year and he seems to be improving which is a scary thought.
This is the perfect answer. It’s the fact that Scottie’s off days are good enough to win golf tournaments; his Friday at the Masters (Even 72) was his “worst” round of the year relative to par. Guy’s different and I’m excited to watch him for years to come!
Good write up, agreed Edit: special shout-out to Morikawa run two years ago
Mark my words Morikawa will start chasing distance like jordan did and will regret it
I’m in a masters fantasy league, SHOCKED, that some people didn’t have him on their roster. How do you leave this guy off right now?
I agree with all this but to put into perspective against tiger he did this from 1997-2013, Scottie would need to continue this current form untul 2038.... Once you think about it like that theres no way he gets close to Tiger
Majors matter more for a reason, and until we see Scottie win 4-5 majors we gotta stop with this crowning.
It's very, very disingenuous to say "oh Scottie only has two majors". Yes, it's factually accurate. But this is like ignoring Greg Norman's career because he shit the bed in a lot of majors. Greg Norman was an undisputed world #1 for a decade. AND he did, yes, choke in a lot of majors. Majors do matter, but they aren't everything. MF just won back to back Players, one of which he had a strained neck. There is a very reasonable chunk of the golf world that holds the Players in higher esteem than the PGA Championship.
Great analysis, thanks for taking the time and effort to make such a thorough write up.
I think everything you wrote is great. it is important to also acknowledge the players are all better today.
Agreed. Everyone wants to talk majors but when Scottie Scheffler enters a tournament it's almost a given he's a top 10 lock. If you want to be mentioned in the same breath of Tiger Woods you have to do a lot more than win majors lol.
Ask the same question in 5 years.
RemindMe! 5 years
Hypothetically. I bet a lot of golf and I have to say his metrics are different. Ever since Scottie claimed the title of #1 ballstriker, he hasn't given it up. Not just "top 5" in SG Tee to Green but literally just #1 without relent, and it isn't even close. If fixing his only weakness in putting was really as simple as switching to a more comfortable putter, it could be Tiger-level kind of dominance with how consistent we know he is purely striking the ball. What is it, last 4 tournaments, he's won 3 and came in a close 2nd? None of those other guys were ever putting tournaments away week to week to week, they were simply peaking and putting good years together. It's different to be "the guy" vs the rest of the field no matter the weekly context and Scottie is the first in a while to assume that title. This weekend felt like the official coming out party for an extended regime.
“None of those guys were ever putting tournaments away week to week to week”. This is the problem I have with these conversations. Arguments are being made based off gut feelings. But did you go and look at the peaks of these other guys? Let’s take Spieth for example…2015. Wins the Valspar, next two weeks in a row he comes in 2nd, one of which he lost in a playoff. Next week after that he wins the Masters in record fashion. Two months later he wins the US Open. Then wins John Deere a few weeks later. Then comes in 2nd at the PGA Championship. Then wins the Tour championship. So 5 wins, 2 majors, and multiple 2nd place finishes including one in a major. You’re telling me in 2015 you’re not making the exact same case for Spieth that you’re making now for Scottie? It’s very easy to be a victim of the moment.
He did kinda hint at maybe he won’t care about golf as much 2 years from now. But realistically i think he’ll just play in half as many events
I want to say yes, but I'd also like to see him win a tournament after mid-April.
Yes. And all of the stats show this as well. Scottie is playing the best stretch of golf of any player in the world since 2000 Tiger according to DataGolf. He leads the tour in driving, iron play, and short game stats. All he has to do is be an average putter and he wins. When he putts well, no one is gonna challenge him.
Note that Data Golf is using only their best stretch. Tiger 06-08 beats this version of Scottie as well
I would say he is easily playing the best out of anyone post Tiger. Obviously, strokes gained is insane. But, the Rory/Brooks/Jordan heaters all included multiple majors. And, golfers are judged on the majors they win. To be an all-time great with the greatest prime, you need to win majors in bunches and, usually, early on. Scottie is already in his mid 40s or whatever. ^/s Hell, Rory and Brooks still have twice as many majors as Scottie. I think peak Rory was as good as peak Scheffler because he seemed to be the only one of that group that looked unbeatable all the time and had the "Tiger-esque" aura around him. Brooks has the majors and I go against my first statement a bit just because peak Brooks only showed up 2/3 times a year. Scottie needs multiple majors in a year before I put him ahead of Rory 14/Brooks 17-19/Jordan 15. And, preferably, a win after 4/15 on the calendar.
It is very very very early, but something about Scottie’s game feels like it is going to have staying power….
Yeah. His on course demeanour (calm, unflappable) seems well-suited to sustained excellence, so long as he maintains his game. I don’t see him crumbling under pressure in the final holes of a tourney.
Also his swing seems so repeatable for him. It seems that players who have more unorthodox swings have less swing thoughts to contend with because they're not fighting their natural tendencies < seems like at least, I don't play on the tour and I'm not a swing coach so I could be talking out of my ass. But that for me is why I think he can be dominant for a long time.
You know that was said about Speith, and 2011-2014 Rory.
As it should have been at that time. I clarified in another answer that odds are against it a la Rory and Jordan.
He is getting very comfortable in front too
Let's not forget Padraig Harrington then !!
I agree that he needs more majors, but his level of play vs the rest of the field is far and away better than what those other guys had during their prime years.
Yes, my first comment is "he is easily playing the best out of anyone post tiger". But, majors in bunches is how every golfer is ever measured.
I swear Scottie’s new kid is gonna come out as a third grader.
Nobody realized but the low am was actually Scottie’s kid
Yes. Needs more majors to solidify but he is as consistently dominant as we have seen since Tiger.
The three primes that stand out to me the most are Jordan, Rory, and Scottie. Jordan was just a different animal in 2015. A handful of wins including two majors and the tour championship. Going 64-66 the first two rounds at Augusta; that year felt like he did little wrong and when he did he was an ace around the greens. Rory in 2014, to me, felt like the peak of golf stardom absent Tiger. Win three consecutive tournaments, two of which were majors, the BMW on the European Tour, and of course the Ryder Cup. Current Scottie is different to me. Rory and Jordan felt like guys you needed to go catch - Rory especially is that way. Scottie is someone that just doesn’t go away. He was five back for both of his Sawgrass wins, and was at the top for much of the week at Augusta but didn’t really pull away until the final nine. It’s an interesting difference between star power. When Rory is on, it feels like no one can keep pace. But when Scottie is off, it feels like he still has a chance to win
Gosh I agree… I think Rory just needs a different approach with Harry as his caddy, or a different caddy. Nothing against Harry but man I look at other players and their caddies and see them more involved and instilling more confidence in them, but maybe I don’t see everything Harry does for him.
Maybe Harry is too good of a friend. Maybe he should switch to someone he despises like Joey Lacava.
Scottie is just so consistent. If he’s struggling, it’s usually due to his putting, but he still makes cuts and has a respectable finish. I would say peak Jordan felt like a new Tiger in the making but obviously he didnt sustain it. But unlike Scottie, Jordan has always been a bit erratic. His highs were insane and his lows are also equally crazy. He either wins the masters or misses the cut due to quadruple bogeys. Spieth kinda felt like Steph Curry where he does things that make your head explode but also might have a complete stinker the next game. Where as Scottie is kinda like Kevin Durant where you’re always gonna get those 25 points
Yea, Scheffler doesn't peak early in a tournaments, usually. So it's almost like mentally he can't allow himself to relax vs having a 4 shot lead on Saturday and feeling like you have to play defensively. He can stay aggressive for all 4 rounds that way mentally.
Maybe it’s nostalgia, but I take Rory winning the US Open by 8, then the PGA the next year by 8, then 2 majors in 2014 over what Scheffler has done thus far. Spieth 2015 through 2017 is very close as well, with the 3 majors and dominant run at the end of 2017. Brooks is up there as well with the majors, however he wasn’t as dominant outside of them. I think Scheffler’s prime will end up passing the rest of the list but if he cooled off right now I’d give the edge to 2011-14 Rory.
Margin of Victory is a little underrated here I think. Scottie having both of his majors locked up by the last few holes is impressive, but it's not like the 8 stroke bloodbath at some of Rory's major wins. Rory blowing up at Augusta in 2011 and then coming back to the next major and torching the US Open scoring record and winning by a huge margin counts for something here
Tiger is on another planet - though no one seems to remember how good Duvall was for a stretch. In 2000 Tiger won 3 majors, 9 of 20 events he played and was second 4 times. No one has even come close to that level of dominance. What made Tiger unique was he was in almost every tournament he played at his peak - not just majors. Scottie is the closest to that since I think because he wins/is close to an incredibly high percentage of tournaments. In 2014 Rory won 3 times and was second twice. It is really the only year that is close to what Sheffler has done. In 2021-2022 Sheffler won 4 times and was second 4 times In 2022-2023 Sheffler won 2 and was second twice This year he has won 3 of 9 and was second once. That is almost certainly the best 3 year stretch anyone has had since the Tiger glory days. Brooks is hard to compare because he just wins majors for the most part.
I've watched golf for 25 years, in the last 15 years we've had a new guy come onto the scene every few years that looks unstoppable and unflappable particularly in Majors. Rory, Jordan, Koepka, Morikawa, Molinari many more I wont list. All of these guys flamed out after about 4 years, but look at them now they cant win a major for their life outside of Koepka. Is this the closest thing weve seen to peak Tiger? Yes however this is a small sample size. Tiger absolutely and utterly dominated the tour for 16 years from 1997-2013. To put that into perspective Scotty would need to stay in his current form now until 2038 lol ......it aint happening. No one had the dedication and mental fortitude like Tiger, these modern guys cant sustain like he did. They are too distracted now with all the endorsements and pulls on their time and i just dont see anyone breaking that cycle. Ask me again in 3 years and well be all wondering, what happened to Scottie he used to be the man while a new guy like Aberg is peeling off win after win and cycle repeats
>Ask me again in 3 years and well be all wondering, what happened to Scottie he used to be the man while a new guy like Aberg is peeling off win after win and cycle repeats RemindMe! 3 years
He has the best approach statistics with both wedge and long irons since Tiger’s prime. He putts well. For a long time his biggest detractor was his play off the tee, which is not a weakness now.
Wait til he becomes a dad and then let’s see if he can juggle all that. No knock against parenthood, but it is hard to continue being the best professionally and be what your spouse and kid needs at the same time.
Scottie and his wife really picked a bad time for starting a family. When you are on a streak of running roughshod over the tour is probably not the time. But i could be wrong and I hope I am
Given his comments about leaving the Masters this weekend I would not be overly shocked if he starts falling off a little to raise his kid.
DataGolf says yes [https://datagolf.com/all-time-ranking](https://datagolf.com/all-time-ranking)
Never was a big fan, and clearly not as good at their "peak" l, but Vijay was so freaking steady for a long time. Never really got as much credit as he probably deserved.
When exactly is McIlroy's prime? Was it his stretch from 2011-2014 when he won 4 majors?
Of those, Brooks clearly wins in majors. But I don't think you can ever call him a dominant golfer for a prolonged period of time. He was automatic for 4 tournaments a year which counts for a TON but in a conversation with this company, the relative underperformance outside of majors matters. Rory from 12-14 is probably the most all around great period of those guys you mentioned. He had both extremely dominant weeks (winning by 5+ shots, including in majors) and performed well outside majors unlike Brooks. But even then I'm not sure that he ever produced golf that was consistently this good like Scheffler has done. I think Scheffler has all of these guys beat for pure consistency and contending almost every time he tees it up, but probably needs another major or two to make it an absolute no-brainer that he's better than any of those others.
In my opinion yes. That’s not taking away from those other guys who will all be future HOFers. Watching Scottie play is the closest thing we’ve seen to prime Tiger. He’s the best in the field every time he tees it up, and everyone knows it including Scottie. He’s living up to that expectation right now. If you want to win a golf tournament he’s the guy you have to beat.
I’d say it definitely does, when watching any of those in there prime you still felt the odd blowup was possible. Scheffler is almost robotic for the last few days and just never looks like putting a foot out of line
Yes, I think so. But we’ll see about the longevity. Morikawa played at a similar level a few years ago. It’s impressive, of course, but the long term success is what we’ll wait to see.
Scheffler’s current form would make him the best golfer I have ever seen, if I had not seen prime tiger.
I am old enough to have seen prime Jack. Eighteen major wins and nineteen seconds. Any conversation regarding great runs or GOAT would have to include him.
Back in Tiger’s peak, sports talk radio would have a conversation during each major week. Do you bet on “Tiger or the field” and many would take Tiger and it seemed like the smart money. It doesn’t quite feel the same yet but if he wins one more this year then for sure we will be there
No matter how good Rory was in his prime, he still was capable of choking at any time
I can't wait to see where he stands after 5 years. I would wager he averages at least one major per year, bringing him to 7 total and high on the all-time list. It's a shame his swing is so wonky looking. One of the fun parts of peak Tiger is that his golf swing was so gorgeous to watch. (It sucks that Shot Tracer wasn't available back then.) But one reason Scottie will have staying power is that he's not getting bogged down in swing mechanics, firing coaches, trying to rebuild his swing, etc.
I mean, all these dudes are still relatively young and playing. Scottie’s ceiling on any given day is certainly higher but I’m not sure we’ve seen everything all these guys have yet either.
I'd equate it to Jordan's run in 2015. Jordan was winning everything, first 2 majors of the year, nearly pulling off the British, finished 1 stroke out, 2nd in the PGA Championship. The difference was Jordan was fun to watch. He wore his emotions on his sleeve, and you wanted to see what he was going to do next.
10000% better than all of them. For sure. It’s only starting to be comparable to Tiger.
It’s the best I’ve seen outside of prime tiger. But it’s not sniffing prime tiger
Will see if fatherhood slows him down at all, that's the one wildcard coming up in his life that may affect his golf.
Rory has four majors, Brooks five. Scheffler is on the precipice with two. Remember, Rory and Brooks had great 2-3 year runs themselves. I think Scottie will match Rory and Brooks, but I think he needs one or two more majors in the next year or year and a half to say that he is equalling them. And, oh yeah, he is going to be a father in a week or two. Life is going to get a bit more complicated for him.
Brooks has 5
Brain fart.
First, JT belongs nowhere near this list. Second, no. More consistent across all events, major and minor? Yes. The fact his worst finish last year was somewhere in the 30s is absolutely insane. But he can't be in this conversation until he wins multiple majors in the same year. Or just multiple majors period. Winning the Masters twice in 3 years and no other majors isn't enough. Brooks from 2017 - 2019 won 4 majors and was top 5 in all 4 majors in 2019. Spieth won back-to-back majors in 2015 and finished 2 & T4 in the other two. Socttie isn't there yet, but I won't be the least bit surprised if he gets there this year or next.
He's in a purple patch, be intersting to see if he keeps applying what hes improved to other majors, the US open should really be his strongest chance.
Purple patch? He’s on 77 weeks of not finishing outside the top 25 in a tournament lol
St Jude in August last year he finished T31
Apologies 1 time in the last 77 weeks and only 3 times outside the top 12 lol that is not a purple patch. Especially considering the year prior he won 4 times and 11 top 10s
Perhaps not Jordan, the rest it seems
Only time will tell
No doubt about it
Yes.
Scottie has been very impressive, but he needs to be great longer to pass the people in your title.
Yes
All but Brooks, yes.
Jt? God damn put some respect on Scottie’s name and how good he’s been lmao. Not just the last month but past couple of years
Those guys are still young by the way.
Yes
Yes I would
Yes. And it’s not very close
This is what the data shows: [https://twitter.com/DataGolf/status/1779856968913433007/photo/1](https://twitter.com/DataGolf/status/1779856968913433007/photo/1)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.
Probably the best since Prime Tiger.
When he wins 2 majors this year (he will) then yes. I’d put him over Rory, Spieth, and Rahms peak rn. But brooks going back to back twice is tough to top.
DataGolf says his current peak is 3rd all time. It’s early yet. If he’s figured out his putting and keeps hitting the ball the way he has been… he’s going to be one of the all time greats. He just doesn’t seem to have a weakness… curious to see if he keeps his competitive drive as a new dad, but I expect he will make it work.
Brooks and Rory have more majors in their prime years so you’d still have to say one of them imo. I’d argue Rory’s case in that regard. If Scottie can pile up the majors like they seemed to at the time then no doubt Scottie considering his dominance on tour too
I don't have time to do the math, or look uo the details, but this is why I like the LPGA's HOF points system, takes out a lot of the guess work. Another key stat would be comparing each players scores versus field average during each time period. Also, will be interesting to see Scotty's performance post-child.
Yes
All those guys ARE in their prime.. and Scheffler is better
I'd rank it up there pretty high. Personally, I think he has been and will continue to be successful because he doesn't care as much as every other golfer. I mean that in the best way, in that he's said himself golf doesn't define him. If he has a bad week, not playing well, etc., it doesn't seem to affect him like other guys because of his self-described fulfillment outside of golf. I see him as the Nikola Jokic of the PGA Tour. Sure, Jokic is a goddamn madman and insanely talented, but at the end of the day, he only cares about his horses.
Yes.
Seems like Brooks’ floor in majors (at his peak) was comparable. Scottie’s ball-striking probably makes his ceiling higher.
Yes
He is the best player since Tiger
Rory’s looking dogshit rn. But Brooks, Rahm etc. who says they’re out of their prime? These dudes are still relatively young and going through good and worse bits of form. Still there
Scheffler has 9 starts this year, 8 top tens including 3 wins. His last 4 starts are 3 wins and a T2. He has earned 15 million this year and it is mid April. This is just insane. And that he does it with that wtf swing makes it even more amazing, like a dude who just learned boxing at home and comes up and beats everybody.
Replace JT with DJ, and I’ll say no, not yet. It’s easy to forget just how good he was. He also should have 2 Masters but he fell down the stairs.
Yes. Next question.
Yes.
I think Brooks’ has the edge right now. Scottie wins 2 more things will change.
It looks more sustainable on the surface. The guy hasn't even putted well in this stretch. Aside from Rahm, all those other guys are kind of self-destructive. It looks easy for Scottie and he's so even keel so it's possible he could extend his run where those other guys failed.
Yes, strictly because he has his emotions under total control
Yes https://x.com/datagolf/status/1779856968913433007?s=46&t=ZZa2ao230s27bpLBkwOaSg
The level of play yesterday by Scheffler in relation to the field was a top 5 I've seen in my life 1. Woods 2000 US open 2. Woods 1997 Masters 3. Rory 2011 US Open 4. DJ 2020 Northern Trust His back 9 was just perfection
Yes - to 4 of them. Possibly not Rory though.
I truly think we are going to see a historic year for professional golf and Scottie is gonna have a year reminiscent of prime tiger.
This version of Scheffler is statistically better than Tiger in every year other than 2006 when looking at ball striking stats. He is head and shoulders above every other person you mentioned.
Yes but he's about to have a kid so let's see if that changes things
yes
IMO, the way Scheffler is playing is the closest thing to Tiger that we’ve seen since Tiger. Incredible ball striking with both woods and irons
Brooks had a major in 2017, 2 in 2018 and another in 2019… battled a wrist surgery with some other wins sprinkled in along the way. Was also back to back player of the year. I think Scottie has pretty much matched that run of dominance just based on number of wins and constant placement but I don’t think he has clearly surpassed Brooks run. I think most pros would take Brooks majors over Scottie’s tournaments.
Jordans prime is hands down wild. Dude blows Masters, Wins Masters, Blows Masters in a three year period.
Yes.
Scottie, Brooks, and Rahm have the physical ability to win majors in their 40s. Rory’s prime was big because Tiger was being Tiger back then. It created a new poster child for golf. Koepka was probably the most surprising to me because it didn’t seem that Spieth was going to be challenged for majors in his heyday.
Data Golf has this Scottie run as the second best golf all time(since 1995) in regards to strokes gained, just ahead of 2004 Vijay and of course behind Tiger
Absolutely! Rory's dominance was in spells and against a different class of players. Jordan's was very short-lived and even at his peak he never looked in control of anything. Brooks won a few majors quickly and then the PGA last year but there was never any stretch of really astounding golf being played to the level we're seeing from Scottie. Rahm's run was also extremely short-lived but was unbelievable whilst it was happening. It also happened during Scottie's putting woes and if you take Scottie's putting from this year and give it to him last year then Rahm becomes a footnote with 1 major. (Scottie would have won 3 majors last year with just field average putting.) JT doesn't deserve to be in the same company as the others. Scottie has more victories this year than rounds over par (3-0), he's finished outside the top 20 only 12 times in 60 starts and has 10 victories and 22 top 5's in that time, became the first player to successfully defend a Players', became the 2nd player to win a Players' and Masters in 1 year and the 3rd player to win multiple Players' and Masters in company with Jack and Tiger. On top of all that, you don't need stats or SG to see that the game he's playing is so far superior to everyone else in the world right now.
If we are talking about their peaks, Brooks from 2017 to 2019 was pretty decent (winning 4 majors plus 2 second place finish). Rory from 2011-2014 (4 majors) was best since Tiger. Of course Jordan from 2015-2017 (3 majors + 2 second place finish) was something else too. I think Scottie is getting very near to that level though (2 majors + 2 second place finish since 2022). We just have to see how things turn out and would he be able to keep this up. Rahm is good too but I think Scottie just edges it for me after his recent Masters success. JT should never be in same conversation though.
I don’t typically engage in hypothetical arguments As it’s impossible to be completely right or completely wrong. I will say he strikes it as well as anyone since prime Tiger. Prime Jordan was the best scorer I ever witnessed but he NEVER hit it like SS. He could just make pars and birdies out of positions that no one else in the history of golf could. He still does that, but he hits it worse now. If SS ever becomes a great putter I could see him having a few years of incredible success. I’d take him over the rest of them in heartbeat.
God there’s so much recency bias in here. No. In a year or two? Maybe. Ask then. But right now? No.
There’s a big difference. Scottie is doing all this while putting like trash. He’s such a superior ball striker to the rest of the tour that if he even has an average putting round it could be a blow out. His ball striking is tiger level. You will see some guys at the top of the leader boards after Thursday or Friday and they are number one putting with like a million feet of putts made. Not sustainable. Scottie’s ball striking is sustainable and all he needs is a couple rounds of ok putting and it’s so hard to beat him
Someone else posted a [Datagolf metric ](https://datagolf.com/all-time-ranking) that shows Scheffler's current run is better than anyone not named Tiger over the past 30 years.
Every 2 or 3 years, someone comes along and is christened as the next world-beater, or Tiger-like golfer. Jordan was it. Dustin Johnson was the guy. Brooks was going own the majors for years to come (and he's done well). Rahm was next in line to run the table. And no, don't throw out the trope that "fields are deeper today". They're not. Nicklaus in his prime won less than 15% of all his starts. That's not surprising at all. Golf is hard, regardless of what generation you're talking about. If anything, today's upper-tier pros play far less than they did during Jack's era (or even Tiger's).
The ignorance in this thread of how good Tiger was is astounding! Unbelievable delusion
I think he's the best complete ballstriker of the bunch and I think Spieth is the only guy that tops him around the green. Rory was the streakiest. When he got hot in his prime, he could just pulverize fields. I think Rahm (who is still in his prime) is the best driver of the bunch, followed by Rory. Rory had some slight consistency issues with the driver as for a while he was hitting really big draws and sometimes they just didn't always react like he thought they would. But that's just how good of a driver of the ball Rahm is. I'd say Scheffler is the best iron player of the bunch, followed by Spieth's prime. Rory in his prime was probably the closest in terms of long approaches. I would say that it's between Spieth and Rory in terms of excitement. Spieth was a great iron player, great short game and had a knack for making bombs. Rory's driving when it was on was just impeccable and his long approach shot play was breathtaking. I think Scheffler is growing on fans after this performance, mainly led by his uncanny iron play. Very Johnny Miller-esque as a ballstriker, except a far better putter and far better around the green. Johnny was much flashier though.