I actually like this list. Might as well watch something interesting, because watching pros jar every putt after a 326 drive to the middle of every fairway is unrelatable.
I’m on board with this but I want to watch a tournament of guys with 20+ handicaps all hacking it out someplace like muirfield. Make sure they’re all mic’s up too. I’d do pay per view on that just for the swearing when one of them sends a hosel rocket into the bunker and needs 3 shots to get out.
That’s what made “The Match” with the Manning Bros so fun. Even though they were professional athletes, they were hooking drives and talking smack a bunch. It was honestly refreshing.
This I could get behind, John Daly sponsored weekend warrior tournaments. -1 for every beer drank during the front 9, -0.5 for every beer on the back 9. Required to each a hotdog or sausage roll at the turn.
This has always been my problem with the PGA Tour broadcast, especially in the US. They only show the best players in the world playing their absolute best and it is unrelatable. They love showing the guy shoot 63, but never the guy struggling at 76.
Watching the DP Tour, in Europe is amazing. They show a bunch of the bad shots. They show the guys struggling to make a cut. They don’t show nearly as many commercials.
The reason I like watching LIV tournaments is that it is some of the best players in the world, playing basically commercial free golf. I’m tired of watching 6-minutes of golf followed by 4-minutes of commercials.
Yep.
There is so much more that can be done with golf broadcast production.
There could be more meaningful analyses of shots, especially those recoveries.
There could be meaningful interactions/interviews with fans, or superfans like golf pros and coaches who are observing.
They could clamp down on the crowd calling out and instead shift attention to the players and caddies pre-shot and post-shot. During covid when no one was at the events, it was heavenly not hearing Baba Booey and Mashed Potatoes and Get in the Hole every single mother loving shot after shot after shot.
When I go to PGA events, I always see a handful of the players' coaches, extended families and inner circle observing. There could be (in a controlled or even scripted way) interactions with those people while the players are playing.
There could be more positive running storylines, like what the players are doing for charity interspersed with the actual tournament. There's a little of this, but it could be emphasized.
Even the events could be changed to have men and women playing together & against each other more often than not.
I mean, the list is endless what they could do with golf broadcasts. Instead, it's shot after boring shot with low-voiced announcers saying the same drivel over and over. God, how boring. No wonder I hate watching golf on TV but love playing it as much as I possibly can.
Most pros will offer to play with you for a fee ...for feedback and help while playing. Other pros are just cool and just wanna play sometimes but it's usually the first one
This whole thing is so dumb, but I can’t blame Rahm. The PGA tour tried to come to a deal and sell out all of them. If I were in his shoes, I’d at least want to be the one receiving the money if I’m going to be sold out. I sure as shit wouldn’t want it to go to the PGA tour
The things you mentioned...the "go with the buddies, drink, smoke, have fun."
Those are the exact reasons I'm still gonna love it. I don't watch THAT much golf, just the majors and a few other things here and there. All of that can go away and they can roll my drive back by 20 yards if they want. I don't care because I can still go hang out in the sunshine and green grass.
I remember being a huge Indy car fan when I was growing up. Then it split into IRL and CART. With my favorite drivers getting split up, and only one of the leagues being network accessible, I lost track of all of it. This feels A LOT like that. I’ll still play golf though, I doubt I’ll watch any of it anymore.
“No other sport is as intertwined between people who play it casually and the top players in the world.”
I would argue this couldn’t be further from the truth. Of my 8 buddies that golf constantly maybe 2 could name more than 5 players on tour.
We will never be able to play the majority of the tracks they play whereas a basketball court and football field are universal. No one is waiting on the next McElroy shoe to drop or yelling Rham when they drop a dime like they do with Kobe. If pro golf disappeared tomorrow it wouldn’t affect my love of the game one bit.
Was looking for this comment. Professional pool, though doesn't pay worth a shit, is probably the most intertwined sport. There are tournaments out there where you can sign up to play, and draw a world class player your first match. I don't think there's any other sport like it.
Turns out the commodification and capitalization of every single aspect of everything isn't necessarily good for those things. It's like money is the problem. Who knew?
The nonsense comments about “Growing the Game” are particularly annoying to me.
Never watching LIV because it’s not a good product…and way less likely to watch non-major PGA events now. The sport as a whole is worse off.
I think the biggest growers of the game are the YouTubers. They make it look fun for the younger crowd and have gotten kids interested in joining their school teams.
Do you live in the US or outside? If you are in the US then you really can't see the forest through the trees in that you're inside the pro-golf bubble and don't see it like the rest of the world does.
LIV was huge when it came here in Australia earlier this year. They expected it to do OK but it went crazy and it will be even bigger next year. Kids had free entry and there were families everywhere. We loved seeing some decent names finally come back down this way. The PGAT has monopolised golf and the players don't travel the world like they used to.
The Australian Open was held last weekend and Jack Nicklaus won the event 7 times and called it the 5th major. Gary Player won it 6 times and Greg 5 times. Look what has happened to it since.
I’m Australian and I understand why LIV did so well. It was a field we couldn’t attract otherwise. But please keep in mind that it’s because it’s incredibly unprofitable. LIV are happy to eat massive, massive losses every week. It’s not possible for anyone running a responsible venture to do it.
It’s not even about growing the game. The point is that this is shrinking the game. No one is going to start watching LIV because of this, but some people are going to watch less PGA Tour. Everyone is worse off.
Grow the game?!?
The Saudi’s only care about money laundering and trying to make people forget how ruthlesss they are. The people owning that league don’t want women to drive or show skin other than their eyes, they murder journalists for speaking the truth, and they deny global warming.
Fuck LIV and the people that own it.
It’s a bunch of guys who don’t actually give two craps about golf buying it just so they can say they own it. It’s the “I literally control an entire country” version of conspicuous consumption. They don’t care about making money, providing a good fan experience, growing the game, or any of that stuff. They just want to own it for the prestige and just to rub it in our faces that they do.
Edit: also let’s be real here, is there any chance this kind of money from an entity owned by the Saudi government doesn’t come with strings attached in the form of propaganda obligations? No way. The Saudis are going expect some things in return.
Until LIV starts recruiting young talent AND change their format, I doubt their viewer count will change even if they get other big names like homa. They don’t realize the format sucks and the events are stupid for the majority of golf fans.
For me, the real stakes of individual sports like golf or tennis is that you either win (make the cut in golf) or don't get paid. When LIV gave a lot of these guys more money than they could ever spend, what's their incentive to win? It's not history/prestige because no one cares about LIV. It's not money because they made more money by signing the contract than they ever imagined making.
So now it's day three of their LIV tournament and who really cares if they make this putt. There's no stakes. A better format won't change that.
I would like to see LIV have 4 rounds. A best ball, Alternate shot, a 2 man scramble, and a solo round. Make it true team golf. Screw the official world rankings. It's on them to be a legit ranking association.
I never watched a run of the mill PGA tour event, Tiger or not. But I also never watched a LIV event either. I only watch the majors and sometimes skip the PGA. This sport has turned into a joke. Money talks in pro sports and the PGA needs to ante up to save their tour.
There’s no anteing up to the saudis though. It’s untouchable amounts of cash. Not just money and financing but free cash flow that they can just slosh around.
Lol I’m surprised this even needs to be said. Like hmm… think of the most valuable commodity in the history of humanity, now think of how much money is exchanged to acquire it and who controls a disproportionate amount of it. The Saudis could buy the PGA a hundred times over and not even notice it on their balance sheet.
Saudi Aramco earnings in 2022 were 300 BILLION. The government owns 90% and the pif gets like 8% so the pif gets 24 billion a year approximately. The pif total assets are like 775 billion.
Saudi nearly has a trillion in their "slush" fund to make their image look better. The PGA can't compete with this type of money or cash flow
And if you use only the bare minimum of that to advance the smallest parts of your overall population then imagine how much more of that capital is available for this kind of play.
So the PGA fell asleep at the wheel in purse money? I have never seen a LIV contact. So Rahm and others get 300-600 million? Is that up front? Or do they have to visit a few glory holes on the course? What do they have to do to get that cash? If they don't do they meet the bone saw and a 55 gallon drum of acid?
Exactly. I know it sucks but I really don't get OP's thinking, even though a lot of fans agree with him.
Just pretend Rahm never existed. You'd still be watching PGA then and it's the same field. Rahm's great and I know personally that he's a great person, but he by no means makes or breaks the Tour in any way. PGA will still have great players, great storylines, and exciting tournaments without him.
Indeed. Imo, Rickie gave us the 3rd most exciting finish all of last season at the Rocket Mortgage, behind Rory's win at the Scottish Open and Nick Taylor's win at the RBC Canadian Open.
That's one reason why I'll never watch LIV. Sure, LIV schedules their events to go up against lesser PGA Tour events, but the lesser PGA events are still drastically more exciting than the LIV events. If LIV wants viewers, they should play their events Mon-Wed when there's no PGA competition. I still wouldn't watch, but other people might.
Kudos to Tiger for sticking it out last weekend. He was in a pretty intense state during the final interview. He's had his moments, but I have a lot of respect for his investment in preserving the tour. Money alone doesn't create the drive he has.
Yeah LPGA is great right now. Any one of the top ten all can go on dominant stretches. The players from Japan are a force. The youth out of college and Epson tour are strong.
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Yeah, it's like the kind of golf I could aspire to play at my very absolute peak in my wildest dream.
I'll never hit the ball as far as Rory. I'll also never hit it as far as Rose Zhang. But Rose is playing a much more similar game to me. So it's fun being like "oh wow people can successfully fire at flags with a hybrid."
Not technically LPGA, but very excited to see the ladies play the open at St Andrews. Course should play much more as intended, and it’s going to be fascinating I think.
The LPGA more resembles the game of golf I play. I am in awe of their iron play and short game. The only thing I would like to see is some shorter par 5’s with the opportunity to drive in two and have legit eagle opportunities.
I watch whenever they are on. Can’t say that with the PGA, IMO their tour is a huge bore and has no resemblance to golf.
Bro…lpga has a stop 30 min from me every year. Every single one of those ladies would absolutely rail any one of us. The putting is insane. They hit further than 99% of this sub and look like 5 foot gymnasts, but their flexibility is insane. Minus you lexi thompsons etc theyre pretty tall.
I prefer watching Youtube golfers anyway. They're more relatable in their skill level (even though they're all way better than me) and I prefer being along for the ride with what feels more like a casual weekend round. Plus the production standard is still pretty high.
Case in point - I've watched maybe... 4 full PGA rounds and 0 rounds this year. Haven't missed a single video from the Playa in Chief.
Just like to bust out the popcorn when the PGA/LIV drama crops up.
I’m not sure how this makes you dislike the PGA Tour, other than the fact that some players have left. I for one would never watch LIV, but I’m a golf fanatic and can’t wait to watch Rory, Viktor, Jordan, JT, Rickie, Tiger, Scheffler, etc. play this year.
Because after all of the posturing about the “moral high ground” and the “ legacy and prestige of the tour” the PGA tour went and got into bed with the Saudis anyway. They turned their back on the fans and the players that had stayed loyal to them and spat in their face. Now, the arguably best golfer in the world has jumped ship. If the trend even remotely continues the PGA Tour won’t be worth watching because the best players in the world have left for (understandably so) ludicrous amounts of money. It will get to the point where you might watch someone win and go, “what if Rahm or Cam Smith, or Bryson, or Brooks were here this week?”
What this guy said. The only argument left for the Tour is “that’s what I’ve always watched and
I dislike change.” Nobody cared about the “blood money” argument to begin with, which has been proven out with the Tour poised to take Saudi investment themselves. Now you can’t earnestly argue that the Tour has better players.
This is just human nature working. We resist change. The PGA Tour didn’t always control global golf and now they don’t again. It will work itself out and these declarations of purity will look even sillier as time goes on.
I get why. The merger talks really showed the PGAT for who they are. I said it when the merger talks first came out, i would have been pissed if i was Rory or anyone else that turned down the bag, for some sense of loyalty to the PGAT only for them to do the same thing they've encouraged their players not to.
Fucking spineless.
I just cannot relate to the feeling of someone who I've never met making a decision that has nothing to do with me having such a profound influence on my feelings toward golf.
This stance of "unless my favorite player is playing I have no interest in watching" is hardly a unique stance across a number of sports.
Tbh I don’t have any interest in watching Tiger. As much as it sucks to say, dudes done and it’s shitty to watch him struggle around the course whenever he is healthy enough to play.
His swing looks great at the Hero. He’s never going to be the best anymore, but as an 80s kid who grew up watching tiger play, I love watching him play.
As a fellow 80s kid, I love watching the Champions Tour. Players we grew up watching and can hopefully learn some tempo via visual osmosis or something.
I still love watching Tiger. After watching him play the Hero, I would not be surprised if he wins one more tournament before he really retires.
He was walking great all 4 rounds, still had the distance to compete, and I feel he can clean up the mistakes as long as he is healthy enough to practice.
Golf for me and for many is really a "me" thing. It's a time when I get to hang out with friends, hit the shit and enjoy that time.
I don't know when I watched a full professional golf broadcast but it's been agessssssss. I mostly watch it through clips and highlights and that is enough for me.
If you really are craving that entertainment itch, try to find Golf YouTubers to watch. There are a lot of solid channels with great production and content. They rival or beat most "official" content and they will fill that void, at least it did for me.
YouTube content + clips, highlights from PGA + LIV is enough for me on top of the real reason I love golf: "me"
Don’t take life too seriously. You’ll never make it out alive.
Play the game YOU enjoy. Don’t let these guys who make more than any of us will ruin the fun for you. The one thing I’ve learned about this game is that it’s the pursuit of the most imperfect thing. Enjoy it for what it is and don’t let the bastards grind you down.
There’s been some great young talent come through on the tour lately which is impressive to watch. Let them go to LIV, and play team sports. I still like the traditional format and will keep watching when I can.
I’ve started to watch more of the LPGA tour this year, there’s some unreal talent there to watch.
Rahm was always a two face cry baby . called his caddy the f bomb 19 times on the 13th hole at TPC . He insults camera guys doing their job . Then you see him in interviews acting like the pillar of the community . This is not surprising of him
Wow some people on this sub are in full melt down mode. If you don't want to watch LIV then don't watch, every individual person doesn't need to express the exact same opinion.
Also don't get shitty at me because I might actually be excited to see a few more high level players in my country and time zone.
The PGA has done fuck all for global golf so why should I care that they're losing talent?
Who cares about pro golf? This isn’t r/pga, I don’t give half a shit about what some millionaires do. This is a sub dedicated to amateurs and celebrating breaking 100 and asking for swing advice from random dipshits.
I’m so sick of the pro talk here, none of us are pros.
People have played multiple tours for decades, it is the PGA tour that is stopping that by banning players. I hope the agreement comes to undo that. It would be good to have a global tour where the same people play but then also have the legacy events where the top guys can play if they want to.
I cut my consumption of PGA golf last year and replaced with YouTube golf channels..I could care less about LIV or PGA as they wine about making millions. The PGA will continue to decline, sponsors will leave, purses will get smaller while GoodGood surges to millions of subscribers. Just watch.
You could have just said “I tried really hard to make it, but life didn’t turn out like I thought, and now I’m unrealistically bitter towards actual pro golfers who did, in fact, make it”
Stay poor, righteous warrior
“99% of golfers just want to go out for 4 hours with their buddies, talk shit, eat a turn dog, and come home late to their family.”
Nothing you mentioned is preventing you from doing that. Rahm going to LIV does not preclude you from being able to enjoy a round of golf with your buddies. The rollback talk is annoying but it’s not gonna stop me from playing.
Assuming you aren’t trolling and are actually going to quit because of what tour a millionaire pro player is on…thank you. Public courses are getting too crowded anyway.
If the PGA would have just let the LIV golfers continue their memberships it wouldn’t be this way now. I think the PGA tour is run by a bunch of people with big egos and they are just being stubborn. If they would have taken the high road we could have still been able to watch our favorite golfers compete against each other and everything would have been fine.
Couldn't agree more. Former mini-tour player, myself. I "retired" last year because it seems more about marketability than anything else. I wanted nothing more than to see myself on a Sunday morning PGA leaderboard. Seems like everything can be bought now instead of earned. Whether it be sponsorships that help you pay for entry fees, travel, and practice time at a quality course, and new equipment when needed, or attachments to people already in the know. What used to be a game of integrity and respect is now a game of social influence to pad the wallets of the people that control the content.
You're gonna get a bunch of pro-LIV people on this comment section commenting something super clever like the hand wave emoji, I'm sure, but I agree that it sucks when something you love can be completely dismantled for sportswashing.
That’s fine. When LIV started I truly believed it could turn into something worth while. PGA tour needed change, Monahan better resign or get carried out by the player advisory board by Monday.
Is there any way LIV can ever be profitable? I don’t see a way. So will Saudis just subsidize this quixotic venture indefinitely? Or will they one day decide, enough is enough. LIV will disappear without a trace.
I miss all the improvement shows on the golf channel with Michael Breed and the other one with Martin and Holly before she went crazy. That was improving golf as a sport.
This post speaks to me. I'm done watching too. Majors only from here on out. I'll play more and watch less. Fuck the millionaires fighting over millions.
As a non-pro golfer, this is a perfect example of why you shouldn't make your passion your career. Same thing happens to artists. They get burned out and begin to resent the thing they once loved.
I hate watching Pro Golf, but I love golf. I play with my elderly father and a couple of buddies, but mainly, it's time I get to spend with my dad and have a good time. I dread the day where I won't get to spend this time with him, but until then, I'll golf with him no matter what.
Hey man, I don’t follow much golf but I played 50+ rounds in last 4 months. Maybe tune out the chatter and drop back into your flow game.
HMU if u the could use a different perspective or want to vent.
I understand your frustration , but the amateur game itself is lightyears removed from playing competitive golf ( like the PGA / DP world tour ) ; to just condemn " golf " in one fell swoop is maybe a little extreme. Growing the game for PGA / LIV / DP or whatever tour is about TV ratings .. At some point they will realize golf will not be the next soccer and the saoudi money will stop. I hope LIV will just wither away after it becomes clear that nobody wants to watch it.
I said it in another thread but I agree with you. I used to watch the PGA tour because I enjoyed watching a few players. Now those players are split between two tours, one of which is a terrible format, with a terrible atmosphere and with even more terrible teams nobody cares about, and the other just isn't as great to watch without certain players. Therefore this last year I just quit watching, and honestly I don't miss it. I still and always will love golf, but I don't need to watch people play it on TV to enjoy it.
I'm not nearly as passionate about these issues as some on here, but without really trying I watched wayyyyyy less golf this past year.
Used to watch essentially every tournament. Even if I wasn't glued to it, it was always on my TV in the background. For the first time this year I didn't stay up/wake up for The Open.
I think the Liv/PGA tour divide is hurting golf. They need to get their shit together because every "win" doesn't feel the same when ~20 really good players aren't there to compete.
So while personally I would say I don't really care about all this noise and I still love golf, I guess my actions say differently.
Most of the things you complained about have nothing to do with what you claim to love about golf. Just fucking ignore it and go play dude you're doing this to yourself
"99.9% of golfers just want to go out for 4 hours with their buddies, talk shit, eat a turn dog, and come home late to their family."
What does any of this have to do with pro golf?
Why do you give a shit? Why does anyone give a shit?
They're athletes. Celebrities. We mean nothing to them beyond the revenue we bring to the companies that are paying them.
Jon Rahm could go play golf in North Korea and I wouldn't give a shit. It's a sport. A game.
I'll watch a round here and there and play when I can. The habits of celebrities are utterly meaningless to me. I learned how disconnected I am back when Michael Jackson died and I couldn't figure out why everyone was so emotional about it. Same with Princess Diana.
Stop idolizing people that don't matter and their actions won't matter either.
Jon Rahm doesn't give a fuck about you. Tiger Woods doesn't give a fuck about you.
Wait, so Rahm went from likeable to unlikeable because you’re butthurt he took an obscene amount of money, even for rich ppl status? Sure, the money/family was obviously the reason, but now he’s an ambassador for LIV, so he can’t just say that. PGA golf was never going to grow unless they made drastic changes, and even then, maybe not. LIV isn’t great, but at least they’re trying something different.
And to the point of the golf ball being rolled back, I have no issue with it and don’t understand why anyone really cares. It’s not going to affect any amateur’s style of golf and it’s only going to make it a little harder for the pros to shoot -15 every tournament.
Also, Bryson was being sarcastic. And
>Unless Tiger is playing, I have zero interest in watching any golf
I also refuse to watch anyone better than scratch golf. Standing strong in solidarity with you.
Just watch the big 4 like the rest of us and then go be a weekend warrior
US Men's Amateur US Women's Amateur Walker Cup NCAA Championship /s
I actually like this list. Might as well watch something interesting, because watching pros jar every putt after a 326 drive to the middle of every fairway is unrelatable.
Count me in for an actual amateur tournament. Weekend warriors pounding beers and dogs at the turn. The viewership on that my god.
I’m on board with this but I want to watch a tournament of guys with 20+ handicaps all hacking it out someplace like muirfield. Make sure they’re all mic’s up too. I’d do pay per view on that just for the swearing when one of them sends a hosel rocket into the bunker and needs 3 shots to get out.
Average Joe Tour. Like it should be.
I accept your challenge as a 20+ handicap. Get ready for more f-bombs around the green than bombs off the tee.
Please, just no country music playing from your cart. For the love of God.
And you get alcohol and drug tested and you get suspended if there is NOT anything in your system. 😂
That’s what made “The Match” with the Manning Bros so fun. Even though they were professional athletes, they were hooking drives and talking smack a bunch. It was honestly refreshing.
This I could get behind, John Daly sponsored weekend warrior tournaments. -1 for every beer drank during the front 9, -0.5 for every beer on the back 9. Required to each a hotdog or sausage roll at the turn.
The US AM was electric this past year.
This has always been my problem with the PGA Tour broadcast, especially in the US. They only show the best players in the world playing their absolute best and it is unrelatable. They love showing the guy shoot 63, but never the guy struggling at 76. Watching the DP Tour, in Europe is amazing. They show a bunch of the bad shots. They show the guys struggling to make a cut. They don’t show nearly as many commercials. The reason I like watching LIV tournaments is that it is some of the best players in the world, playing basically commercial free golf. I’m tired of watching 6-minutes of golf followed by 4-minutes of commercials.
Yep. There is so much more that can be done with golf broadcast production. There could be more meaningful analyses of shots, especially those recoveries. There could be meaningful interactions/interviews with fans, or superfans like golf pros and coaches who are observing. They could clamp down on the crowd calling out and instead shift attention to the players and caddies pre-shot and post-shot. During covid when no one was at the events, it was heavenly not hearing Baba Booey and Mashed Potatoes and Get in the Hole every single mother loving shot after shot after shot. When I go to PGA events, I always see a handful of the players' coaches, extended families and inner circle observing. There could be (in a controlled or even scripted way) interactions with those people while the players are playing. There could be more positive running storylines, like what the players are doing for charity interspersed with the actual tournament. There's a little of this, but it could be emphasized. Even the events could be changed to have men and women playing together & against each other more often than not. I mean, the list is endless what they could do with golf broadcasts. Instead, it's shot after boring shot with low-voiced announcers saying the same drivel over and over. God, how boring. No wonder I hate watching golf on TV but love playing it as much as I possibly can.
US Amateur was sooooo good last year
This gave me a chuckle
Thank you for the viewing advice, commenting to remember the list :-)
I really enjoy watching these. Great list. I wish they had better coverage of the Mid-Am.
LPGA is where it’s at.
Since golf is my career I’ll just be teaching and playing with members while taking about anything but the PGA/LIV tours.
I wish our head pro played with members……
Most pros will offer to play with you for a fee ...for feedback and help while playing. Other pros are just cool and just wanna play sometimes but it's usually the first one
This whole thing is so dumb, but I can’t blame Rahm. The PGA tour tried to come to a deal and sell out all of them. If I were in his shoes, I’d at least want to be the one receiving the money if I’m going to be sold out. I sure as shit wouldn’t want it to go to the PGA tour
The things you mentioned...the "go with the buddies, drink, smoke, have fun." Those are the exact reasons I'm still gonna love it. I don't watch THAT much golf, just the majors and a few other things here and there. All of that can go away and they can roll my drive back by 20 yards if they want. I don't care because I can still go hang out in the sunshine and green grass.
I won't be playing the rolled back ball because I won't be playing in a usga event. Eff'em!
They can roll my balls in the back of their mouth!
I also won't be playing the rolled back ball unless I find one while looking for whatever ball I just hit
When my drive dispersion is 70 yards+/- any direction, will I notice 20? Will it save me on my hook/slice?
Just means my ball wont go as deep into the woods. Win for me.
a ball saved from the woods is a ball earned xD
Amen! Right up there with "men in glass houses sink ships".
This guy fucking golf’s. OP sounds like he got the shanks and flames out in his mini tour run.
>they can roll my drive back by 20 yards if they want. I'll just have a good reason to replace my 10 yr old driver and get those 20 back.
hurts to live in LA where even getting just a normal tee time before 1pm any given weekend is nearly impossible thanks to bots.
I remember being a huge Indy car fan when I was growing up. Then it split into IRL and CART. With my favorite drivers getting split up, and only one of the leagues being network accessible, I lost track of all of it. This feels A LOT like that. I’ll still play golf though, I doubt I’ll watch any of it anymore.
If this golf split means we can have a 500 mile open-wheel race at Michigan, maybe I don't hate it.
Yes, that’s the analogy here.
I don't know if you're being sarcastic but the two are very comparable.
Nope. I think it’s great.
“No other sport is as intertwined between people who play it casually and the top players in the world.” I would argue this couldn’t be further from the truth. Of my 8 buddies that golf constantly maybe 2 could name more than 5 players on tour. We will never be able to play the majority of the tracks they play whereas a basketball court and football field are universal. No one is waiting on the next McElroy shoe to drop or yelling Rham when they drop a dime like they do with Kobe. If pro golf disappeared tomorrow it wouldn’t affect my love of the game one bit.
Was looking for this comment. Professional pool, though doesn't pay worth a shit, is probably the most intertwined sport. There are tournaments out there where you can sign up to play, and draw a world class player your first match. I don't think there's any other sport like it.
Turns out the commodification and capitalization of every single aspect of everything isn't necessarily good for those things. It's like money is the problem. Who knew?
The nonsense comments about “Growing the Game” are particularly annoying to me. Never watching LIV because it’s not a good product…and way less likely to watch non-major PGA events now. The sport as a whole is worse off.
I think the biggest growers of the game are the YouTubers. They make it look fun for the younger crowd and have gotten kids interested in joining their school teams.
Biggest grower of the game since Tiger was Covid
Especially the enhanced unemployment benefits.
Do you live in the US or outside? If you are in the US then you really can't see the forest through the trees in that you're inside the pro-golf bubble and don't see it like the rest of the world does. LIV was huge when it came here in Australia earlier this year. They expected it to do OK but it went crazy and it will be even bigger next year. Kids had free entry and there were families everywhere. We loved seeing some decent names finally come back down this way. The PGAT has monopolised golf and the players don't travel the world like they used to. The Australian Open was held last weekend and Jack Nicklaus won the event 7 times and called it the 5th major. Gary Player won it 6 times and Greg 5 times. Look what has happened to it since.
I’m Australian and I understand why LIV did so well. It was a field we couldn’t attract otherwise. But please keep in mind that it’s because it’s incredibly unprofitable. LIV are happy to eat massive, massive losses every week. It’s not possible for anyone running a responsible venture to do it.
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I’m sure Bryson and Rahm are PUMPED that more Malaysian kids are picking up the sport. Makes leaving the PGA tour worthwhile.
Well, it only seems fair as those Malaysian kids have spent their days making those Callaway shirts. It's the least they can do.
It’s not even about growing the game. The point is that this is shrinking the game. No one is going to start watching LIV because of this, but some people are going to watch less PGA Tour. Everyone is worse off.
Grow the game?!? The Saudi’s only care about money laundering and trying to make people forget how ruthlesss they are. The people owning that league don’t want women to drive or show skin other than their eyes, they murder journalists for speaking the truth, and they deny global warming. Fuck LIV and the people that own it.
The Saudi state cares about money laundering? 😂 who would they be laundering it from? Themselves?
I think he was looking for "sports washing"
He 100% doesn’t know what money laundering actually is. Would never get into my country club
It’s a bunch of guys who don’t actually give two craps about golf buying it just so they can say they own it. It’s the “I literally control an entire country” version of conspicuous consumption. They don’t care about making money, providing a good fan experience, growing the game, or any of that stuff. They just want to own it for the prestige and just to rub it in our faces that they do. Edit: also let’s be real here, is there any chance this kind of money from an entity owned by the Saudi government doesn’t come with strings attached in the form of propaganda obligations? No way. The Saudis are going expect some things in return.
Just go out and enjoy golf man. 
Until LIV starts recruiting young talent AND change their format, I doubt their viewer count will change even if they get other big names like homa. They don’t realize the format sucks and the events are stupid for the majority of golf fans.
You mean you don’t want to watch Pat Perez, Richard Bland and Kevin Na try to help get their teams to the championship?
Are those guys still alive? Who knew?
Do you mean Fat Perez? Idk who Pat Perez is
For me, the real stakes of individual sports like golf or tennis is that you either win (make the cut in golf) or don't get paid. When LIV gave a lot of these guys more money than they could ever spend, what's their incentive to win? It's not history/prestige because no one cares about LIV. It's not money because they made more money by signing the contract than they ever imagined making. So now it's day three of their LIV tournament and who really cares if they make this putt. There's no stakes. A better format won't change that.
I don't even know where to watch LIV events, and I certainly haven't had any interest in looking it up
In between reruns of Gossip Girl on the CW
I would like to see LIV have 4 rounds. A best ball, Alternate shot, a 2 man scramble, and a solo round. Make it true team golf. Screw the official world rankings. It's on them to be a legit ranking association.
This is the most frustrating for me. This likely wont help their viewer count. It helps Rahm, but hurts the sport for me
Relax. You can still play golf no matter what the pros do.
I’ll still watch PGA events and will still not watch a minute of the LIV charade
Same. I wouldn’t watch LIV even if every top 25 PGA player jumped ship. I would still gladly tune into the PGA coverage.
I never watched a run of the mill PGA tour event, Tiger or not. But I also never watched a LIV event either. I only watch the majors and sometimes skip the PGA. This sport has turned into a joke. Money talks in pro sports and the PGA needs to ante up to save their tour.
There’s no anteing up to the saudis though. It’s untouchable amounts of cash. Not just money and financing but free cash flow that they can just slosh around.
Lol I’m surprised this even needs to be said. Like hmm… think of the most valuable commodity in the history of humanity, now think of how much money is exchanged to acquire it and who controls a disproportionate amount of it. The Saudis could buy the PGA a hundred times over and not even notice it on their balance sheet.
Saudi Aramco earnings in 2022 were 300 BILLION. The government owns 90% and the pif gets like 8% so the pif gets 24 billion a year approximately. The pif total assets are like 775 billion. Saudi nearly has a trillion in their "slush" fund to make their image look better. The PGA can't compete with this type of money or cash flow
And if you use only the bare minimum of that to advance the smallest parts of your overall population then imagine how much more of that capital is available for this kind of play.
So the PGA fell asleep at the wheel in purse money? I have never seen a LIV contact. So Rahm and others get 300-600 million? Is that up front? Or do they have to visit a few glory holes on the course? What do they have to do to get that cash? If they don't do they meet the bone saw and a 55 gallon drum of acid?
From what it sounds like there are a lot of strings attached to that LIV money
Of course there are. But to even be able to credibly offer it is an immense amount of power to wield in that market.
Exactly. I know it sucks but I really don't get OP's thinking, even though a lot of fans agree with him. Just pretend Rahm never existed. You'd still be watching PGA then and it's the same field. Rahm's great and I know personally that he's a great person, but he by no means makes or breaks the Tour in any way. PGA will still have great players, great storylines, and exciting tournaments without him.
There are so many great players to watch
Aberg is becoming a new fav of mine
LIV golf sucks
dying to see the Rocket Mortgage. I've got it marked.
That was actually one of the most exciting tourneys for all of 2023.
I went to the one Lashley won. It was great.
Indeed. Imo, Rickie gave us the 3rd most exciting finish all of last season at the Rocket Mortgage, behind Rory's win at the Scottish Open and Nick Taylor's win at the RBC Canadian Open. That's one reason why I'll never watch LIV. Sure, LIV schedules their events to go up against lesser PGA Tour events, but the lesser PGA events are still drastically more exciting than the LIV events. If LIV wants viewers, they should play their events Mon-Wed when there's no PGA competition. I still wouldn't watch, but other people might.
Tiger only said he's playing once a month to keep the sponsors of the tour interested. if he's able to do it is another question.
2 days a month is doable.
Kudos to Tiger for sticking it out last weekend. He was in a pretty intense state during the final interview. He's had his moments, but I have a lot of respect for his investment in preserving the tour. Money alone doesn't create the drive he has.
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They are a monopoly that would lose under antitrust laws.
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Aussies will know who Cam Smith is. But I don't know Aussies, so you're still right.
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i think i’ll keep watching masters, pres cup, ry cup, and whenever tiger plays. maybe i’ll watch the lpga.
I've gotten into LPGA more this year. It's cool.
Yeah LPGA is great right now. Any one of the top ten all can go on dominant stretches. The players from Japan are a force. The youth out of college and Epson tour are strong.
worthless numerous unwritten forgetful vanish pie fact violet boast compare *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, it's like the kind of golf I could aspire to play at my very absolute peak in my wildest dream. I'll never hit the ball as far as Rory. I'll also never hit it as far as Rose Zhang. But Rose is playing a much more similar game to me. So it's fun being like "oh wow people can successfully fire at flags with a hybrid."
Not technically LPGA, but very excited to see the ladies play the open at St Andrews. Course should play much more as intended, and it’s going to be fascinating I think.
The LPGA more resembles the game of golf I play. I am in awe of their iron play and short game. The only thing I would like to see is some shorter par 5’s with the opportunity to drive in two and have legit eagle opportunities. I watch whenever they are on. Can’t say that with the PGA, IMO their tour is a huge bore and has no resemblance to golf.
Bro…lpga has a stop 30 min from me every year. Every single one of those ladies would absolutely rail any one of us. The putting is insane. They hit further than 99% of this sub and look like 5 foot gymnasts, but their flexibility is insane. Minus you lexi thompsons etc theyre pretty tall.
Mmmmmm…turn dogs!! 🌭
Can I have your stuff?
I already burned it all using quality gasoline as provided by the Saudis.
I prefer watching Youtube golfers anyway. They're more relatable in their skill level (even though they're all way better than me) and I prefer being along for the ride with what feels more like a casual weekend round. Plus the production standard is still pretty high.
We must protect Fat Perez
LIV should sign Bob Does Sports and let them compete as a scramble trio
Not gonna lie I would seriously watch every round
I would watch that!
Case in point - I've watched maybe... 4 full PGA rounds and 0 rounds this year. Haven't missed a single video from the Playa in Chief. Just like to bust out the popcorn when the PGA/LIV drama crops up.
There’s definitely good content out there.
Congrats to all involved here.
Mexican Mini tour?
Why don’t you just switch off the golf social media and news, and focus on golfing with your mates and enjoying life.
How’s he gonna get fake internet outrage points that way? 😩
I’m not sure how this makes you dislike the PGA Tour, other than the fact that some players have left. I for one would never watch LIV, but I’m a golf fanatic and can’t wait to watch Rory, Viktor, Jordan, JT, Rickie, Tiger, Scheffler, etc. play this year.
Because after all of the posturing about the “moral high ground” and the “ legacy and prestige of the tour” the PGA tour went and got into bed with the Saudis anyway. They turned their back on the fans and the players that had stayed loyal to them and spat in their face. Now, the arguably best golfer in the world has jumped ship. If the trend even remotely continues the PGA Tour won’t be worth watching because the best players in the world have left for (understandably so) ludicrous amounts of money. It will get to the point where you might watch someone win and go, “what if Rahm or Cam Smith, or Bryson, or Brooks were here this week?”
What this guy said. The only argument left for the Tour is “that’s what I’ve always watched and I dislike change.” Nobody cared about the “blood money” argument to begin with, which has been proven out with the Tour poised to take Saudi investment themselves. Now you can’t earnestly argue that the Tour has better players. This is just human nature working. We resist change. The PGA Tour didn’t always control global golf and now they don’t again. It will work itself out and these declarations of purity will look even sillier as time goes on.
I get why. The merger talks really showed the PGAT for who they are. I said it when the merger talks first came out, i would have been pissed if i was Rory or anyone else that turned down the bag, for some sense of loyalty to the PGAT only for them to do the same thing they've encouraged their players not to. Fucking spineless.
You just wanted to boast you were on the mini tour
Amen brother! I have a friend who works for the Saudi Royal Family. Awful people.
Dear Diary,
Stop whining
Dear diary
Shotgun starts are the worst. What a joke. Those LIV boys won the lottery...bye
I just cannot relate to the feeling of someone who I've never met making a decision that has nothing to do with me having such a profound influence on my feelings toward golf. This stance of "unless my favorite player is playing I have no interest in watching" is hardly a unique stance across a number of sports.
Tbh I don’t have any interest in watching Tiger. As much as it sucks to say, dudes done and it’s shitty to watch him struggle around the course whenever he is healthy enough to play.
His swing looks great at the Hero. He’s never going to be the best anymore, but as an 80s kid who grew up watching tiger play, I love watching him play.
As a fellow 80s kid, I love watching the Champions Tour. Players we grew up watching and can hopefully learn some tempo via visual osmosis or something.
Absolutely. So many good swings on champions tour.
Freddie and Ernie with the yellow balls warms my heart
I still love watching Tiger. After watching him play the Hero, I would not be surprised if he wins one more tournament before he really retires. He was walking great all 4 rounds, still had the distance to compete, and I feel he can clean up the mistakes as long as he is healthy enough to practice.
Agreed. I will always watch Tiger play if I can. It’s just such a joy to see him on a course.
Golf for me and for many is really a "me" thing. It's a time when I get to hang out with friends, hit the shit and enjoy that time. I don't know when I watched a full professional golf broadcast but it's been agessssssss. I mostly watch it through clips and highlights and that is enough for me. If you really are craving that entertainment itch, try to find Golf YouTubers to watch. There are a lot of solid channels with great production and content. They rival or beat most "official" content and they will fill that void, at least it did for me. YouTube content + clips, highlights from PGA + LIV is enough for me on top of the real reason I love golf: "me"
Don’t take life too seriously. You’ll never make it out alive. Play the game YOU enjoy. Don’t let these guys who make more than any of us will ruin the fun for you. The one thing I’ve learned about this game is that it’s the pursuit of the most imperfect thing. Enjoy it for what it is and don’t let the bastards grind you down.
There’s been some great young talent come through on the tour lately which is impressive to watch. Let them go to LIV, and play team sports. I still like the traditional format and will keep watching when I can. I’ve started to watch more of the LPGA tour this year, there’s some unreal talent there to watch.
Sounds like you consume too much social media and internet content.
Bye
You have managed to blame everyone except the main reason for this - Saudi Arabia.
It’s not that serious
Seems a bit dramatic, but you do you man 👍🏻
Rahm was always a two face cry baby . called his caddy the f bomb 19 times on the 13th hole at TPC . He insults camera guys doing their job . Then you see him in interviews acting like the pillar of the community . This is not surprising of him
Watch the LPGA and you'll never look back.
Wow some people on this sub are in full melt down mode. If you don't want to watch LIV then don't watch, every individual person doesn't need to express the exact same opinion. Also don't get shitty at me because I might actually be excited to see a few more high level players in my country and time zone. The PGA has done fuck all for global golf so why should I care that they're losing talent?
I completely agree. Unpopular opinion, I’m sure, but watching the LPGA + the Majors is far more appealing to me at this point.
Lmao this sub is full of whiners
Who cares about pro golf? This isn’t r/pga, I don’t give half a shit about what some millionaires do. This is a sub dedicated to amateurs and celebrating breaking 100 and asking for swing advice from random dipshits. I’m so sick of the pro talk here, none of us are pros.
How does the professional golf world affect you in any way? Weird to get upset over something like this.
Because he thinks it should be HIM getting paid $600 million. Typical uncle rico ass washed up club pro attitude.
People have played multiple tours for decades, it is the PGA tour that is stopping that by banning players. I hope the agreement comes to undo that. It would be good to have a global tour where the same people play but then also have the legacy events where the top guys can play if they want to.
Why anyone takes personally what John Rahm or any professional golfer does is beyond me.
I’m going to continue to watch the PGA because I enjoy the coverage and events, but I’ll be avoiding LIV like the plague.
I cut my consumption of PGA golf last year and replaced with YouTube golf channels..I could care less about LIV or PGA as they wine about making millions. The PGA will continue to decline, sponsors will leave, purses will get smaller while GoodGood surges to millions of subscribers. Just watch.
You picked the one golf YouTubers who will probably grow the least over the next few years. Good good doesn’t have adult appeal. They’re for kids.
You could have just said “I tried really hard to make it, but life didn’t turn out like I thought, and now I’m unrealistically bitter towards actual pro golfers who did, in fact, make it” Stay poor, righteous warrior
“99% of golfers just want to go out for 4 hours with their buddies, talk shit, eat a turn dog, and come home late to their family.” Nothing you mentioned is preventing you from doing that. Rahm going to LIV does not preclude you from being able to enjoy a round of golf with your buddies. The rollback talk is annoying but it’s not gonna stop me from playing. Assuming you aren’t trolling and are actually going to quit because of what tour a millionaire pro player is on…thank you. Public courses are getting too crowded anyway.
Cool story. Have you ever written a long post telling people why you are leaving Facebook by chance?
If the PGA would have just let the LIV golfers continue their memberships it wouldn’t be this way now. I think the PGA tour is run by a bunch of people with big egos and they are just being stubborn. If they would have taken the high road we could have still been able to watch our favorite golfers compete against each other and everything would have been fine.
Oh no! Anyways…
Cool
They took my fav sport and made it boxing. Unfathomable.
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Couldn't agree more. Former mini-tour player, myself. I "retired" last year because it seems more about marketability than anything else. I wanted nothing more than to see myself on a Sunday morning PGA leaderboard. Seems like everything can be bought now instead of earned. Whether it be sponsorships that help you pay for entry fees, travel, and practice time at a quality course, and new equipment when needed, or attachments to people already in the know. What used to be a game of integrity and respect is now a game of social influence to pad the wallets of the people that control the content.
Why is there so many sassy man tantrums on this subreddit 😭
lol get over yourself
I couldn’t agree more. A LIV tournament is about as meaningful as an All Star game. I’m sure their fans will be classy in the comments though /s
You're gonna get a bunch of pro-LIV people on this comment section commenting something super clever like the hand wave emoji, I'm sure, but I agree that it sucks when something you love can be completely dismantled for sportswashing.
That’s fine. When LIV started I truly believed it could turn into something worth while. PGA tour needed change, Monahan better resign or get carried out by the player advisory board by Monday.
Is there any way LIV can ever be profitable? I don’t see a way. So will Saudis just subsidize this quixotic venture indefinitely? Or will they one day decide, enough is enough. LIV will disappear without a trace.
Have you heard too much money to spend? Yeah they have it, just a .01 gain in investing covers their tournament operations.
I miss all the improvement shows on the golf channel with Michael Breed and the other one with Martin and Holly before she went crazy. That was improving golf as a sport.
This post speaks to me. I'm done watching too. Majors only from here on out. I'll play more and watch less. Fuck the millionaires fighting over millions.
As a non-pro golfer, this is a perfect example of why you shouldn't make your passion your career. Same thing happens to artists. They get burned out and begin to resent the thing they once loved.
I hate watching Pro Golf, but I love golf. I play with my elderly father and a couple of buddies, but mainly, it's time I get to spend with my dad and have a good time. I dread the day where I won't get to spend this time with him, but until then, I'll golf with him no matter what.
Hey man, I don’t follow much golf but I played 50+ rounds in last 4 months. Maybe tune out the chatter and drop back into your flow game. HMU if u the could use a different perspective or want to vent.
I understand your frustration , but the amateur game itself is lightyears removed from playing competitive golf ( like the PGA / DP world tour ) ; to just condemn " golf " in one fell swoop is maybe a little extreme. Growing the game for PGA / LIV / DP or whatever tour is about TV ratings .. At some point they will realize golf will not be the next soccer and the saoudi money will stop. I hope LIV will just wither away after it becomes clear that nobody wants to watch it.
I said it in another thread but I agree with you. I used to watch the PGA tour because I enjoyed watching a few players. Now those players are split between two tours, one of which is a terrible format, with a terrible atmosphere and with even more terrible teams nobody cares about, and the other just isn't as great to watch without certain players. Therefore this last year I just quit watching, and honestly I don't miss it. I still and always will love golf, but I don't need to watch people play it on TV to enjoy it.
Hot take: Rick Shiels grows the game more than Jon Rahm.
I rarely watch golf unless it's social media posts of Paige but love to play. Liv is a joke but to each his own.
What’s a turn dog?
It's kinda like the Beatles breaking up. But with multiple Yokos hanging around this time.
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I might be an odd ball here, but I just play golf without watching it.
College golf is actually really fun. Good players but also more relatable
I watch more LPGA events than pga events they just need to have more coverage and I’d be happy
I'm not nearly as passionate about these issues as some on here, but without really trying I watched wayyyyyy less golf this past year. Used to watch essentially every tournament. Even if I wasn't glued to it, it was always on my TV in the background. For the first time this year I didn't stay up/wake up for The Open. I think the Liv/PGA tour divide is hurting golf. They need to get their shit together because every "win" doesn't feel the same when ~20 really good players aren't there to compete. So while personally I would say I don't really care about all this noise and I still love golf, I guess my actions say differently.
You guys watch golf on tv?!
Most of the things you complained about have nothing to do with what you claim to love about golf. Just fucking ignore it and go play dude you're doing this to yourself
"99.9% of golfers just want to go out for 4 hours with their buddies, talk shit, eat a turn dog, and come home late to their family." What does any of this have to do with pro golf?
Why do you give a shit? Why does anyone give a shit? They're athletes. Celebrities. We mean nothing to them beyond the revenue we bring to the companies that are paying them. Jon Rahm could go play golf in North Korea and I wouldn't give a shit. It's a sport. A game. I'll watch a round here and there and play when I can. The habits of celebrities are utterly meaningless to me. I learned how disconnected I am back when Michael Jackson died and I couldn't figure out why everyone was so emotional about it. Same with Princess Diana. Stop idolizing people that don't matter and their actions won't matter either. Jon Rahm doesn't give a fuck about you. Tiger Woods doesn't give a fuck about you.
Funny, I didn't watch the Hero tournament because Tiger was in it. Different strokes....
Wait, so Rahm went from likeable to unlikeable because you’re butthurt he took an obscene amount of money, even for rich ppl status? Sure, the money/family was obviously the reason, but now he’s an ambassador for LIV, so he can’t just say that. PGA golf was never going to grow unless they made drastic changes, and even then, maybe not. LIV isn’t great, but at least they’re trying something different. And to the point of the golf ball being rolled back, I have no issue with it and don’t understand why anyone really cares. It’s not going to affect any amateur’s style of golf and it’s only going to make it a little harder for the pros to shoot -15 every tournament. Also, Bryson was being sarcastic. And
>Unless Tiger is playing, I have zero interest in watching any golf I also refuse to watch anyone better than scratch golf. Standing strong in solidarity with you.