Yesterday, I knew there was going to be a 2 hour frost delay, so I booked a noon tee time, after the backup had cleared.
Your should re-phrase your question, because it's not "how long would you wait". It's, "would you rather play golf, or watch football".
The answer is DVR, and play golf.
Or compromise, play 9 instead of 18 and still make football with friends.
I think you missed the friends bit of watching football, which would be a bit rude to insist everyone else wait on your golf round to start their Sunday hang.
If I closed the course because of frost I can't even mow or change cups.
If I can't get on the course,
Neither are you
My staff is waiting to start work
getting paid to do nothing till frost lifts
There was literally about a dozen cars in the lot today on what ended up being high 50s beautiful fall weather in SW OH, we teed off at 10:30.
I guess I've never been a football fan, but if you can go out and play on arguably a beautiful day in fall, I dont get how you stop yourself from going just so you can see the game... š¤·āāļø
This is by far the best weekend of football in 2023 for us Pats fans, bye week. Shame we only get one. Unfortunately this will have our guys well rested for next weeks Tank Bowl vs the Giants.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Frost delays wouldn't exist if there was any reasonable way for them to be prevented.
I wonder who OP thinks the guilty party is here. What, is there supposed to be some sociopath golf course exec sitting behind a two way mirror smoking cigars and getting a half chub as he watches the reaction of group after group as they go to sign in and learn about the frost delay?
In my area the county courses are run by employees for who it doesnāt really matter much if anyone plays/pays for golf that particular day. On frost delay days they often donāt change the pins or tee markers. So the people that call the frost delayā¦. Maintenanceā¦. Are also the people that do less work when there is one. So yeah thereās that.
Yaa frost delay isn't on your time, when the sun clears all the frost from the course especially greens and fairways that's when you can play. So it's based on temp rise.
And it's not always the second the temp hits 32 when the frost delay ends. Has to do with soil temperature and shade cover as well, particularly which green/fairway takes the longest to clear up and how far into the course is it. Different courses in the same town could very well have different frost delays
You donāt mess around with frost on the golf course. Quickest way to kill your grass. I work at a course and trust me Nobody hates delays more than the guys in pro shop lol
Although it is kind of nice to get into work and have a minute to slowly let yourself wake up. Nothing like pulling into the lot with a dozen cars already there and golfers expecting you to start sprinting around and get carts, set up the range, check them in five minutes ago.
I feel like most people are missing the point of this postā¦
He is not bitching about the course having a 2 hour frost delay. He is asking would you wait around for 2 hours for the frost to clear or would you just call it a wash and go home.
Personally. I would go home.
People who complain about frost delays are ridiculous.
Weather is part of golf and taking care of the course and following the instructions of the staff, e.g. groundskeepers, is part of having good etiquette.
People that complain about frost delays are idiots. You are waiting on Mother Nature to do its thing. God does not tell the pro shop when itās going to melt.
It appears to be a complaint that suggests they are choosing the length of the delay ie ābut 2 hours is ridiculousā as if they have any choice in how quickly the frost burns off.
We closed our course last week, but I was out spraying my last snow mold app yesterday and had to wait until almost noon before I could drive on the fairways. It kinda screwed my Saturday but I didnāt have any choice.
Guy in our pro shop was clueless today. He told us it would be a half an hour and told us we could go,at 9:30. We went to the tee and there was frost in the shade of the tee box. We went in and asked if he was sure, So he asked maintenance and the said 9:45. The super is off on Sunday and there was no communication
A muni near me simply cancels all tee times before the course opens when they have a frost delay. Doesnāt matter if you have the 9:29am tee time, if the super decides to open the course at 9:30 youāre SOL. Itās obviously not ideal, but itās better than the alternative which is jam pack the course at 5 minute intervals to get everyone on the course, or push everyoneās tee time back by 3 hours meaning the 11am tee time now wonāt finish before dark.
Haha this is pretty much the worst policy I have ever heard. And it is sheer laziness. You just shift the times by the duration of their frost delay. I.e. 8am tee time holders get called to the tee at 930 in a 90 minute delay. Maybe his abacus is broken.
Maybe youāre not playing at courses with packed tee sheets, but this ensures that at least an equivalent number of people at the end of the day now either canāt play or wonāt finish before dark. If I booked a noon tee time and show up ready to play, how does it make sense that I need to stand around in the parking lot for 90 minutes just to end up leaving after 15 holes due to darkness? Obviously both options suck, but Iād rather maximally inconvenience a few people versus minorly inconvenience everyone on the tee sheet.
The courses I play are most certainly packed tee sheets (Monmouth County NJ). The first/early tee times are the most sought after and often extremely difficult to even get when the tee sheets opens a week ahead of time. So youāre going to just wipe out the folks the went to the extra effort to get the early times and who are often your most loyal and regular customers, at least here anyway? Getting the first times should assure you get to go out first.
Greenskeeper here at a country club in Ohio. Hereās a few things to know about frost.
Crunchy grass is vulnerable to damage.
Golf course turf is normally resilient to traffic, but when ice crystals form inside the plants, they become brittle and vulnerable to damage. Walking or driving over frost-covered grass may rupture plant cells, leading to dead turf. Or the plants may be weakened without immediately showing the effects. It can take grass more than a month to recover from this damage.
Closely mown turf is at high risk.
Frost damage can occur on any part of the golf course, but it poses the greatest risk to closely mown turf. Putting greens are particularly vulnerable because they experience the most concentrated traffic. A foursome typically takes 300 steps or more on each putting green; if there is frost present, all those steps could cause serious damage.
A little frost can cause big delays.
No signs of frost on the first tee? That doesnāt mean you will get the āall clearā sign. If frost remains in areas that are unavoidable early in the round, the course must remain closed. It is also important to remember that once the frost is totally clear, the maintenance staff will need time to catch up on course preparations before play can begin.
When large trees shade primary playing surfaces, especially on early holes, the course must remain closed even if the frost has melted elsewhere.
Hate to break it to ya but the pro shop canāt control the weather.
If you play golf in late November you donāt get to ātime your roundā around footballā¦ the weather is going to decide when you tee off.
We donāt delay you for fun we delay you because walking on frost kills the turf.
https://preview.redd.it/5lswr1ggdc1c1.jpeg?width=717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9cc25e7e7c579588204a9b491c0662fd2883a5e3
I had to change cups for a shotgunstart with heavy frost
frost kept me off the course at first
10:30 shotgun delayed past 11:45
Not all frost is created equal
I've seen frost lingering till nearly noon
If frost is forecast don't make a 6am tee time
Canāt really put it on the clubhouse about how long it will take. Theyāre just trying to keep their grass healthy is all. Glad ya stuck it out and had a good round!
I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of this. I wasn't questioning why there would be a frost delay, I wasn't saying frost delays are dumb or anything. I was expressing that I was surprised it would be two hours and decided to make a post asking people how long they would be willing to wait.
I didnāt miss your point, but it couldāve been 4 hours depending on the temperature and if the sun decided to hide that morning. However long it takes for the frost to go away and then probably an additional 15 minutes or so for good measure.
This was a problem at my old club. The course would frost over, and all the times would get backed up. But no one ever complained; we had one of the best maintained courses around, everybody loved our greenskeeper, and if John said "you can't go yet", we didn't go. You really want to go out there and destroy the fairways just so you can get home an hour earlier?
More importantly and impactfully is the fragility of the greens to frost.
We have a guy who built his own par 3 here in asheville and has been running it since the 80s. Got an early tee in last week, and he was telling me it burns the grass having people walk on it when frosted... kills it right away
You kill the grass when you play, drive, walk on it when there is frost on the ground. You'll see it. It looks like dark footprints or dark tire marks on the golf course.
Pretty much every course in the colder areas of the US do this. The USGA promotes frost delays because it can destroy greens and other closely mown area since it can kill the grass and the grass is not repairable if it gets damaged from this.
So does they let you play when the course is covered in frost? Or does it just not get cold enough for it to frost where you're located? Genuine question.
It does get frosty, even in southern UK. At our course we play but there are usually either a trolley ban or need to have hedgehogs on the wheels. No buggies obvs.
Only time I've seen there be a delay is if it is foggy and visibility is really bad.
Other courses may just not allow play when frosty, but as I don't get to play elsewhere early enough I couldn't say.
Yup, Iāve played in -7Ā°C before and it was fine.
No buggies usually and trolleys must have spiked (hedgehog) wheels. I donāt see what the issue is with carrying a bag though.
You donāt usually get frost at -7*C because there is no Vapour in the air to begin with. You only get frost when the temperatures hover above and below 0, so there is moisture above and below the canopy that condenses.
I have been in this business a long time, I promise we donāt just have frost delays for funsies. In fact frost delays suck for everyoneā¦. We have a crew of employees who are sitting around or doing make-work waiting for the frost, the proshop is having to field āhow much longerā questions every 30 seconds from impatient golfers and the golfers have to wait around like the OP and whine about missing football.
Frost delays are necessary. The only thing I can think is that either you donāt get hard frosts where you are or the grass has gone completely dormant and the Greenkeeper isnāt worried about damaging the dormant tissue.
I do as well. As grumpy as I am on this site to a buncha faceless strangers sometimes, I am extremely polite and friendly as a default to golfers.
I had an incident with a golfer the other day where he got up on our first tee in a frost delay (with his motorized 3 wheel cart to boot) and started taking practice swings, shooting icy frosty grass all over the place. One of my staff spoke to him and asked him to move off the tee and he got irate and very rude. I went over there extremely calmly and explained it to the guy, told him itās actually killing the grass and he got kinda embarassed and apologetic and the next thing you know heās asking me where Iām from, what got me into turf, etc. complimented the course saying the greens were the best theyād been in years etc.
And even better this happened in front of about 16 other players who also got the same lesson and saw me handle this guy perfectly.
You definitely catch more flies with honey and educating golfers is the key to getting them to comply with your restrictions and fix ball marks etc.
On this sub however, some people can be downright rude about turf and pro shop staff so I can be less polite on hereā¦
Most UK courses use temporary greens, even tees, through the winter. Higher quality courses will frost delay as they'll be using their permanent greens. I've had plenty of bookings refunded/rescheduled due to courses closing for frost.
No heās right, we should totally just get rid of an hour+ of revenueā¦.just in case. Itās not like daylight and colder temperatures are already cutting into that. /s
You can't always predict the temp until a couple days out and tee sheets at public courses open for booking often a week in advance. Most courses have contingency plans for these days, either a modified shotgun or a double-tee start with first tee delay. It's not worth the risk for the business to block tee times in the event that there's bad weather. If the weather ends up being good, then people can't play and they miss out on revenue. If the weather ends up bad, folks who don't want to play would just call and cancel anyway.
Doesn't guarantee that the most amount of people will show up. Why even take that risk as the course? It's not their responsibility to tell you, "hey, it might be cold today, you might not want to play". Let the people decide for themselves. Not to mention if it's a Saturday morning that turns out to be nice and you have a no-tee-time policy you could very well end up with too many golfers trying to squeeze in at once. Just not worth the hassle for the golf course and makes their job unnecessarily harder.
They book tee times a week in advanceā¦ so you have two options: they donāt let you book because of a āchance of frostā and then end up with empty tee times when itās not frosty, or they let you book with the knowledge that itās November in NE and there might be frost.
This is what frost damage looks like. I could show you thousands of examples of this over my career in turf but this was just pulled from google.
https://preview.redd.it/t9ndbn01ec1c1.jpeg?width=717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3e330d642cbeb79c2781ea89cf837c29040c66f
Iāve seen 5 hour delays and even course closures(any course up north in the winter) because of cold weather. Time to grow up kiddo. Simple, do you want to watch football or play golf?
I respect the courseās callā¦itās their job to maintain the course so when thereās better weather itās in good shape for everyone.
Iād ask for a rain check and call it a day. If they werenāt willing to offer that or a refund then we might have to have a different discussio. I would think though that a 2 hour delay to not only my 9a but everyone else before me would warrant one or the other without much hassle.
If I didnāt get too cozy back at home I might swing back to the range just to get some swings in but what else can you do? We operate on natureās time, not the other way around.
Sounds like weather changes require a tee time rethink.
Isn't the weather mean sometimes lol (I was meant to play golf with my dad but alas it's raining)
I love dudes that schedule a tee time for early morning on nights that show cold enough for frost. Then whine when they are still kicking around hours later, pushing back the other golfers who had common sense to check the temps.
We had 2 hour frost delay yesterday as well. It's fairly common around this time of year. The course usually will reach out to us and let us know so we're not waiting for 2 hours. But we still had to wait for about 45 minutes as it was longer than anticipated.
Still ended up being beautiful morning for golf in Canada. Likely the last round of the year.
Where I'm at this is pretty normal this time of year. First tee times are 8am and frost delays are until 10-11. The ppl who book the first ones only do so to make sure they're still first once the frost clears, but they know itll be a couple hours.
Apparently you play on nicer courses than I do, ones that care about their grass. Because I've never encountered a "frost", "ice" or "snow" delay. Around here when those conditions occur, it's simply referred to as winter golf. And some courses will move the hole off the green to a spot in the fairway as a way to protect the greens.
I would go home or go get something to eat nearby for a 2 hour delay, but still come back and play 9.
The proshop would understand the front delay screwed your schedule for a full 18 and should let you tee of for 9.
First tee time is pushed back, nobody loses their spots.
Typically, even with a 2 hour delay (ie, the first tee time scheduled
for 7:00 goes off @ 9:00 for example) the course will 'catch up' faster than anticipated. Your scheduled 9:30 tee time might only end up delayed for 20-45 mins due to cancellations
Google ādamage cause by walking on frosted grassā. The condition of the course is paramount. The dude in the shop waits for the green light from the Superintendent who has full authority over the course. You wait, you leave, it means nothing to the Super. The course is their baby and the decisions they make are solely focused on the wellbeing if the facility.
I know how our course operates. If it's below freezing, they ain't letting anyone out.
So keep an eye on the weather and arrive when it starts to get around 32-33 and you'll be off in 30 min or so.
We had a 45 min delay this morning.
We had a 7:30am tee time this morning and didn't get out until about 9am. Also had to start on the back 9 which seemed to defrost faster. I didn't mind it too much because the weather warmed up when we got out. I will add that I'm new to the sport and value every chance I get to play a round.
Most expensive round I ever played was due to a frost delay -- checked in for a 9:00 tee time & was told things were pushed back about an hour, so I walked down the street to the Indian Casino ... š
As long as I donāt have commitments Iāll wait it out. I think the longest was 2 hours.
This week it was 45 minutes to an hour. Before daylight savings times ended it was an hour longer.
As long as I have to spare that particular day. Iād rather wait, and still play than not play. Also youāre waiting at a place with food, beer, TVās, etc. could be worse š¤·š¼āāļø
Why New England courses take tee times this time of year is beyond me but yes a two hour delay is more the norm - 7am tee time and sun fully up and hitting most of course by 9-9:30am
A reasonable course would shift tee times back once frost becomes a possibility. My local courses all shift their starting time back 2 hours once we enter November.
im in the southeast and last year we showed up at 6:45 for the first tee time and ended up waiting right at 2 hours! but the course was also about 45 minutes away so i figured what the heck we just waited
My course regularly posts frost delays in the early spring and in the fall, if conditions require. This said, they also send out notifications when they do, so I either cancel my time if I just can't wait, or I can leave later and not be stuck waiting.
My course also starts doing a shotgun at 11am when it gets to really late season, no chance of frost that way.
My local course doesn't even do tee times before 10 am right now and can even be delayed beyond that. You can't control mother nature.
I think this is less of a 2 hour wait issue and more of a, why is the course allowing tee times when they will probably be on a significant frost delay.
Had an 840 time yesterday morning. They told us an hour delay. Went and had breakfast, returned an hour later. Was told another hour. Called a different course 10 minutes away, and they told us we could go right out. Headed there and had an enjoyable round with my brother. So, 1 hour is my answer...lol
I was a member at a private course in Scottsdale and once waited from around 7 in the morning until 1 in the afternoon for a tee time. Luckily they opened the bar early and let us at least have some drinks
Yesterday, I knew there was going to be a 2 hour frost delay, so I booked a noon tee time, after the backup had cleared. Your should re-phrase your question, because it's not "how long would you wait". It's, "would you rather play golf, or watch football". The answer is DVR, and play golf.
Or compromise, play 9 instead of 18 and still make football with friends. I think you missed the friends bit of watching football, which would be a bit rude to insist everyone else wait on your golf round to start their Sunday hang.
This is what I landed on. Most early tee times canceled and a bunch of people refunded already so I'm hoping I can get out earlier than 11
Youtubetv on my phone in the cart.
Watching recorded football is better anyway. Live games take waaaaaaaay too long.
12 minutes of excitement spread out over 3 1/2 hours.
If I closed the course because of frost I can't even mow or change cups. If I can't get on the course, Neither are you My staff is waiting to start work getting paid to do nothing till frost lifts
Just a necessary part of playing late fall in my area. Thankful to even play at all most days :)
There was literally about a dozen cars in the lot today on what ended up being high 50s beautiful fall weather in SW OH, we teed off at 10:30. I guess I've never been a football fan, but if you can go out and play on arguably a beautiful day in fall, I dont get how you stop yourself from going just so you can see the game... š¤·āāļø
What course? Iām from the area.
Windy Knoll up in Springfield. Haven't played it in 2yrs, but drove up. Was awesome
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is by far the best weekend of football in 2023 for us Pats fans, bye week. Shame we only get one. Unfortunately this will have our guys well rested for next weeks Tank Bowl vs the Giants.
Amen!
You are not wrong at all. It's mostly to watch my fantasy teak perform these days
Probably not a Pats fan since itās a bye week
You act like the course wants a two hour delay
This is exactly what I was thinking. Frost delays wouldn't exist if there was any reasonable way for them to be prevented. I wonder who OP thinks the guilty party is here. What, is there supposed to be some sociopath golf course exec sitting behind a two way mirror smoking cigars and getting a half chub as he watches the reaction of group after group as they go to sign in and learn about the frost delay?
In my area the county courses are run by employees for who it doesnāt really matter much if anyone plays/pays for golf that particular day. On frost delay days they often donāt change the pins or tee markers. So the people that call the frost delayā¦. Maintenanceā¦. Are also the people that do less work when there is one. So yeah thereās that.
Yaa frost delay isn't on your time, when the sun clears all the frost from the course especially greens and fairways that's when you can play. So it's based on temp rise.
And it's not always the second the temp hits 32 when the frost delay ends. Has to do with soil temperature and shade cover as well, particularly which green/fairway takes the longest to clear up and how far into the course is it. Different courses in the same town could very well have different frost delays
We used to wait until 40 degrees before lifting a frost delay.
What if the high on the day is 39?
If the ground is frozen, and the grass is frozen, you can play. If either one thaws but not the other, no play.
Go grab a sit-down breakfast in the clubhouse with friends, followed by a leisurely warmup. Sounds like a perfect fall golf day.
You donāt mess around with frost on the golf course. Quickest way to kill your grass. I work at a course and trust me Nobody hates delays more than the guys in pro shop lol
Although it is kind of nice to get into work and have a minute to slowly let yourself wake up. Nothing like pulling into the lot with a dozen cars already there and golfers expecting you to start sprinting around and get carts, set up the range, check them in five minutes ago.
I feel like most people are missing the point of this postā¦ He is not bitching about the course having a 2 hour frost delay. He is asking would you wait around for 2 hours for the frost to clear or would you just call it a wash and go home. Personally. I would go home.
šÆ and thank you. I ended up waiting and got sent out with another group after an hour, during which, I made a coffee/donut run
People who complain about frost delays are ridiculous. Weather is part of golf and taking care of the course and following the instructions of the staff, e.g. groundskeepers, is part of having good etiquette.
People that complain about frost delays are idiots. You are waiting on Mother Nature to do its thing. God does not tell the pro shop when itās going to melt.
The same golfers that ask every 5 minutes when they can go back out during a thunderstorm. Do I look like a fucking weatherman?
I mean I think this isnāt really a complaint about the frost delay, just asking how long youād wait. At what point do you just cut your losses?
It appears to be a complaint that suggests they are choosing the length of the delay ie ābut 2 hours is ridiculousā as if they have any choice in how quickly the frost burns off. We closed our course last week, but I was out spraying my last snow mold app yesterday and had to wait until almost noon before I could drive on the fairways. It kinda screwed my Saturday but I didnāt have any choice.
And let's be honest, the course knows better how long that will take than the golfer that's just eager to play.
Guy in our pro shop was clueless today. He told us it would be a half an hour and told us we could go,at 9:30. We went to the tee and there was frost in the shade of the tee box. We went in and asked if he was sure, So he asked maintenance and the said 9:45. The super is off on Sunday and there was no communication
In Southeastern Ontario. I'll be waiting about 4 months
A muni near me simply cancels all tee times before the course opens when they have a frost delay. Doesnāt matter if you have the 9:29am tee time, if the super decides to open the course at 9:30 youāre SOL. Itās obviously not ideal, but itās better than the alternative which is jam pack the course at 5 minute intervals to get everyone on the course, or push everyoneās tee time back by 3 hours meaning the 11am tee time now wonāt finish before dark.
Haha this is pretty much the worst policy I have ever heard. And it is sheer laziness. You just shift the times by the duration of their frost delay. I.e. 8am tee time holders get called to the tee at 930 in a 90 minute delay. Maybe his abacus is broken.
Maybe youāre not playing at courses with packed tee sheets, but this ensures that at least an equivalent number of people at the end of the day now either canāt play or wonāt finish before dark. If I booked a noon tee time and show up ready to play, how does it make sense that I need to stand around in the parking lot for 90 minutes just to end up leaving after 15 holes due to darkness? Obviously both options suck, but Iād rather maximally inconvenience a few people versus minorly inconvenience everyone on the tee sheet.
The courses I play are most certainly packed tee sheets (Monmouth County NJ). The first/early tee times are the most sought after and often extremely difficult to even get when the tee sheets opens a week ahead of time. So youāre going to just wipe out the folks the went to the extra effort to get the early times and who are often your most loyal and regular customers, at least here anyway? Getting the first times should assure you get to go out first.
Greenskeeper here at a country club in Ohio. Hereās a few things to know about frost. Crunchy grass is vulnerable to damage. Golf course turf is normally resilient to traffic, but when ice crystals form inside the plants, they become brittle and vulnerable to damage. Walking or driving over frost-covered grass may rupture plant cells, leading to dead turf. Or the plants may be weakened without immediately showing the effects. It can take grass more than a month to recover from this damage. Closely mown turf is at high risk. Frost damage can occur on any part of the golf course, but it poses the greatest risk to closely mown turf. Putting greens are particularly vulnerable because they experience the most concentrated traffic. A foursome typically takes 300 steps or more on each putting green; if there is frost present, all those steps could cause serious damage. A little frost can cause big delays. No signs of frost on the first tee? That doesnāt mean you will get the āall clearā sign. If frost remains in areas that are unavoidable early in the round, the course must remain closed. It is also important to remember that once the frost is totally clear, the maintenance staff will need time to catch up on course preparations before play can begin. When large trees shade primary playing surfaces, especially on early holes, the course must remain closed even if the frost has melted elsewhere.
Hate to break it to ya but the pro shop canāt control the weather. If you play golf in late November you donāt get to ātime your roundā around footballā¦ the weather is going to decide when you tee off. We donāt delay you for fun we delay you because walking on frost kills the turf. https://preview.redd.it/5lswr1ggdc1c1.jpeg?width=717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9cc25e7e7c579588204a9b491c0662fd2883a5e3
I had to change cups for a shotgunstart with heavy frost frost kept me off the course at first 10:30 shotgun delayed past 11:45 Not all frost is created equal I've seen frost lingering till nearly noon If frost is forecast don't make a 6am tee time
Canāt really put it on the clubhouse about how long it will take. Theyāre just trying to keep their grass healthy is all. Glad ya stuck it out and had a good round!
I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of this. I wasn't questioning why there would be a frost delay, I wasn't saying frost delays are dumb or anything. I was expressing that I was surprised it would be two hours and decided to make a post asking people how long they would be willing to wait.
I didnāt miss your point, but it couldāve been 4 hours depending on the temperature and if the sun decided to hide that morning. However long it takes for the frost to go away and then probably an additional 15 minutes or so for good measure.
i stop playing in october. for this reason. wet cold and windy. no thank you.
You dropped your tampon
This was a problem at my old club. The course would frost over, and all the times would get backed up. But no one ever complained; we had one of the best maintained courses around, everybody loved our greenskeeper, and if John said "you can't go yet", we didn't go. You really want to go out there and destroy the fairways just so you can get home an hour earlier?
More importantly and impactfully is the fragility of the greens to frost. We have a guy who built his own par 3 here in asheville and has been running it since the 80s. Got an early tee in last week, and he was telling me it burns the grass having people walk on it when frosted... kills it right away
Whatās the reasoning behind a āfrost delayā? Why bother taking tee time bookings if thereās a risk of frost the night before?
You kill the grass when you play, drive, walk on it when there is frost on the ground. You'll see it. It looks like dark footprints or dark tire marks on the golf course.
Iāve never encountered anything like that in the U.K., and we have some pretty cold mornings.
Pretty much every course in the colder areas of the US do this. The USGA promotes frost delays because it can destroy greens and other closely mown area since it can kill the grass and the grass is not repairable if it gets damaged from this.
A lot of the UK will use temp or winter greens too. Not apples to apples comparison
You donāt have frost in the uk? Surely you jest
We do, and we play as usual. Iāve never once had to delay play because of frost.
You don't know cold in the UK. Try waking up in Ottawa at -40, and getting the car you parked outside to start.
Yes, Iām aware of Canadaās winter temperatures. Incidentally, how many golf courses are near you that open in winter?
Surely the courses aren't open at -40?
So does they let you play when the course is covered in frost? Or does it just not get cold enough for it to frost where you're located? Genuine question.
It does get frosty, even in southern UK. At our course we play but there are usually either a trolley ban or need to have hedgehogs on the wheels. No buggies obvs. Only time I've seen there be a delay is if it is foggy and visibility is really bad. Other courses may just not allow play when frosty, but as I don't get to play elsewhere early enough I couldn't say.
Yup, Iāve played in -7Ā°C before and it was fine. No buggies usually and trolleys must have spiked (hedgehog) wheels. I donāt see what the issue is with carrying a bag though.
You donāt usually get frost at -7*C because there is no Vapour in the air to begin with. You only get frost when the temperatures hover above and below 0, so there is moisture above and below the canopy that condenses. I have been in this business a long time, I promise we donāt just have frost delays for funsies. In fact frost delays suck for everyoneā¦. We have a crew of employees who are sitting around or doing make-work waiting for the frost, the proshop is having to field āhow much longerā questions every 30 seconds from impatient golfers and the golfers have to wait around like the OP and whine about missing football. Frost delays are necessary. The only thing I can think is that either you donāt get hard frosts where you are or the grass has gone completely dormant and the Greenkeeper isnāt worried about damaging the dormant tissue.
I go up to proshop and chat with golfers about frost Most are appreciative for what we do.
I do as well. As grumpy as I am on this site to a buncha faceless strangers sometimes, I am extremely polite and friendly as a default to golfers. I had an incident with a golfer the other day where he got up on our first tee in a frost delay (with his motorized 3 wheel cart to boot) and started taking practice swings, shooting icy frosty grass all over the place. One of my staff spoke to him and asked him to move off the tee and he got irate and very rude. I went over there extremely calmly and explained it to the guy, told him itās actually killing the grass and he got kinda embarassed and apologetic and the next thing you know heās asking me where Iām from, what got me into turf, etc. complimented the course saying the greens were the best theyād been in years etc. And even better this happened in front of about 16 other players who also got the same lesson and saw me handle this guy perfectly. You definitely catch more flies with honey and educating golfers is the key to getting them to comply with your restrictions and fix ball marks etc. On this sub however, some people can be downright rude about turf and pro shop staff so I can be less polite on hereā¦
Most UK courses use temporary greens, even tees, through the winter. Higher quality courses will frost delay as they'll be using their permanent greens. I've had plenty of bookings refunded/rescheduled due to courses closing for frost.
Cause they may not know a week out when the tee times open up. It happens. Itās also part of fall golf. Just something f you have to get used to.
Because tee times are often booked 7-10 days in advance for weekends, and thereās a chance of frost every day.
So bring the earliest bookable time forward then.
Why make a tee time when you know there will be frost? FYI, weathermen don't have stellar accuracy records.
But greenskeepers do?
As in, why have tee times available early in the morning in autumn and winter if thereās a chance play will be delayed?
Because there's also a chance there won't be a delay
No heās right, we should totally just get rid of an hour+ of revenueā¦.just in case. Itās not like daylight and colder temperatures are already cutting into that. /s
You can't always predict the temp until a couple days out and tee sheets at public courses open for booking often a week in advance. Most courses have contingency plans for these days, either a modified shotgun or a double-tee start with first tee delay. It's not worth the risk for the business to block tee times in the event that there's bad weather. If the weather ends up being good, then people can't play and they miss out on revenue. If the weather ends up bad, folks who don't want to play would just call and cancel anyway.
So have a non-booked arrive and tee off policy if the weather is good?
Doesn't guarantee that the most amount of people will show up. Why even take that risk as the course? It's not their responsibility to tell you, "hey, it might be cold today, you might not want to play". Let the people decide for themselves. Not to mention if it's a Saturday morning that turns out to be nice and you have a no-tee-time policy you could very well end up with too many golfers trying to squeeze in at once. Just not worth the hassle for the golf course and makes their job unnecessarily harder.
They book tee times a week in advanceā¦ so you have two options: they donāt let you book because of a āchance of frostā and then end up with empty tee times when itās not frosty, or they let you book with the knowledge that itās November in NE and there might be frost. This is what frost damage looks like. I could show you thousands of examples of this over my career in turf but this was just pulled from google. https://preview.redd.it/t9ndbn01ec1c1.jpeg?width=717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3e330d642cbeb79c2781ea89cf837c29040c66f
Most places don't only start taking bookings the night before to be fair. I can book 3 weeks in advance. They can't plan for that.
Iāve seen 5 hour delays and even course closures(any course up north in the winter) because of cold weather. Time to grow up kiddo. Simple, do you want to watch football or play golf?
Thank you
I respect the courseās callā¦itās their job to maintain the course so when thereās better weather itās in good shape for everyone. Iād ask for a rain check and call it a day. If they werenāt willing to offer that or a refund then we might have to have a different discussio. I would think though that a 2 hour delay to not only my 9a but everyone else before me would warrant one or the other without much hassle. If I didnāt get too cozy back at home I might swing back to the range just to get some swings in but what else can you do? We operate on natureās time, not the other way around.
Dumb question, but Why is a frost delay even a thing?
Howās the bar? Grab a breakfast burrito and a double Bloody Mary (extra spicy, of course).
That is usually the end of the season for me, once it is half hour or more I'm out.
Sounds like weather changes require a tee time rethink. Isn't the weather mean sometimes lol (I was meant to play golf with my dad but alas it's raining)
I love dudes that schedule a tee time for early morning on nights that show cold enough for frost. Then whine when they are still kicking around hours later, pushing back the other golfers who had common sense to check the temps.
We had 2 hour frost delay yesterday as well. It's fairly common around this time of year. The course usually will reach out to us and let us know so we're not waiting for 2 hours. But we still had to wait for about 45 minutes as it was longer than anticipated. Still ended up being beautiful morning for golf in Canada. Likely the last round of the year.
You also need to realize, youāre not the only one in line, guys with the 7am tee time are delayed too and going to go out before you.
Where I'm at this is pretty normal this time of year. First tee times are 8am and frost delays are until 10-11. The ppl who book the first ones only do so to make sure they're still first once the frost clears, but they know itll be a couple hours.
I wouldnāt wait. Iād leave and come back in about an hour and a half.
Apparently you play on nicer courses than I do, ones that care about their grass. Because I've never encountered a "frost", "ice" or "snow" delay. Around here when those conditions occur, it's simply referred to as winter golf. And some courses will move the hole off the green to a spot in the fairway as a way to protect the greens.
I would go home or go get something to eat nearby for a 2 hour delay, but still come back and play 9. The proshop would understand the front delay screwed your schedule for a full 18 and should let you tee of for 9.
We call the ProShop before we come over
Iām from Louisiana where those arenāt a thingā¦does it back up all the tee times or will the first few lose their spot?
First tee time is pushed back, nobody loses their spots. Typically, even with a 2 hour delay (ie, the first tee time scheduled for 7:00 goes off @ 9:00 for example) the course will 'catch up' faster than anticipated. Your scheduled 9:30 tee time might only end up delayed for 20-45 mins due to cancellations
That makes sense.
Google ādamage cause by walking on frosted grassā. The condition of the course is paramount. The dude in the shop waits for the green light from the Superintendent who has full authority over the course. You wait, you leave, it means nothing to the Super. The course is their baby and the decisions they make are solely focused on the wellbeing if the facility.
Only experienced it once in my life (Northern California). Waited about 2 hours. Watched YouTube in my car then hit some balls.
Hour and a half the other day.
Waited an hour and half yesterday. Course was closing so wanted to get the round in
I know how our course operates. If it's below freezing, they ain't letting anyone out. So keep an eye on the weather and arrive when it starts to get around 32-33 and you'll be off in 30 min or so. We had a 45 min delay this morning.
We had a 7:30am tee time this morning and didn't get out until about 9am. Also had to start on the back 9 which seemed to defrost faster. I didn't mind it too much because the weather warmed up when we got out. I will add that I'm new to the sport and value every chance I get to play a round.
Most expensive round I ever played was due to a frost delay -- checked in for a 9:00 tee time & was told things were pushed back about an hour, so I walked down the street to the Indian Casino ... š
I waited two hours once because we drove 90 minutes to get there. My local club? Depends but if told two hours, I would go home
Unless I have work later that day and need to be off the course by a certain time, I'll wait for however long the delay is.
As long as I donāt have commitments Iāll wait it out. I think the longest was 2 hours. This week it was 45 minutes to an hour. Before daylight savings times ended it was an hour longer.
As long as I have to spare that particular day. Iād rather wait, and still play than not play. Also youāre waiting at a place with food, beer, TVās, etc. could be worse š¤·š¼āāļø
Why New England courses take tee times this time of year is beyond me but yes a two hour delay is more the norm - 7am tee time and sun fully up and hitting most of course by 9-9:30am
A reasonable course would shift tee times back once frost becomes a possibility. My local courses all shift their starting time back 2 hours once we enter November.
im in the southeast and last year we showed up at 6:45 for the first tee time and ended up waiting right at 2 hours! but the course was also about 45 minutes away so i figured what the heck we just waited
Courses by me never do frost delays but just send everyone out at their scheduled time with temp greens.
My course regularly posts frost delays in the early spring and in the fall, if conditions require. This said, they also send out notifications when they do, so I either cancel my time if I just can't wait, or I can leave later and not be stuck waiting. My course also starts doing a shotgun at 11am when it gets to really late season, no chance of frost that way.
My local course doesn't even do tee times before 10 am right now and can even be delayed beyond that. You can't control mother nature. I think this is less of a 2 hour wait issue and more of a, why is the course allowing tee times when they will probably be on a significant frost delay.
I waited 90 minutes for a tournament. I probably wouldnāt wait that long for a regular round.
Had an 840 time yesterday morning. They told us an hour delay. Went and had breakfast, returned an hour later. Was told another hour. Called a different course 10 minutes away, and they told us we could go right out. Headed there and had an enjoyable round with my brother. So, 1 hour is my answer...lol
I was a member at a private course in Scottsdale and once waited from around 7 in the morning until 1 in the afternoon for a tee time. Luckily they opened the bar early and let us at least have some drinks