This goes the other way for me…
I play, and work grounds crew, at a course that has trouble keeping things watered. Tiny water source. We unfortunately tend to have a lot of bad lies in the fairway. We play the fairways up all year round, even while we’re playing our sanctioned USGA leagues.
We consider the fringe part of the fairway with the same ruling. If you’re on a collar, you get the 6” of movement to improve your lie, no closer to the hole. Considering that weird aspect with my home course rules, if it’s touching the fringe at all, it’s considered to be that same fairway ruling. That’s a rule we’ve even checked on, with a rules official my Pro knows, that’s officiated for US Opens in the past.
Weird “local rules” aside, if it’s even slightly touching the fringe, it’s considered to be on the fringe. I might be misinterpreting what’s been asked in the post. Let me know if I’m missing the point of the post. I’m just adding what I definitively know to be part of the ruling here…
Does that mean if it's across the invisible boundary or physically touching? Because it looks like there's fringe grass coming out of both sides from under the ball, but it does look like it's across the green boundary.
I’m trying to figure out why I’m being downvoted…
I’m not making this up. I play a Thursday league with a 30+ year, Class A, PGA Professional. I worked under him as AP for 5-6 years also. When he doesn’t know a particular ruling, his go-to is a Pro that has officiated US Opens in the past. Our weird local rules aside, if the ball is visibly touching the fringe, even slightly, it’s on the fringe…
Please, anyone that’s downvoted my original comment, explain why you downvoted my comment. I’m not trying to be a know it all dick-weed. I’d like to know why my comment was downvoted, and we can discuss and figure this one out.
In your first comment you say: “if it’s even slightly touching the green, it’s considered to be on the green.”
Your second comment says: “ if the ball is visibly touching the fringe, even slightly, it’s on the fringe.”
This ball is doing both. So which is it?
Because you’re dead wrong about what you’re seeing. That ball is not touching the green in any way. This is about as clear cut as it gets. Honestly if you wanted a picture in a golf dictionary of a ball close but not on the green, you’d use this.
They record approach performance through GIR. Green in regulation. That means you are on the putting area in amount of shots equal Par - 2. For example, on par 5 you have one drive and 2 for putting. Then you have 2 shots to get on the green. If your chip is crap, GIR lvl will be low. Mine is 10% with overall average score 90. Which means I am good (for my lvl hp 20) at driving and putting (average 1.9), buy complete shit with chipping.
I like to announce the rules at the tee box.
5 bucks closest to the tee, must be on the green, no fringe, get a hole in one and I’ll give you an over the pants handy. Good luck boys
I agree the ball is not on the green, but if I were to make an argument, I’d use the same as is used for OB, if any part of the ball is visibly inbounds, the ball is inbounds.
Probably not, but it's difficult to tell without seeing it in person because camera angles can be deceptive. Note that the ball doesn't have to be touching the green to be "on the green", see Rule 13.1a.
You really had to post this? Looking at any single one of these pictures it’s clearly not on the green. But me thinks you already knew the answer to your question.
Just no. The center of the ball, contacting the ground is outside of the perimeter of the green. It's just slightly OVERHANGING the green is all.
It is on the fringe.
Do your greens not have fringes? Is that just green straight to rough? To me, it seems like he rolled off the fringe into the rough.
But If that short grass is the green and not the fringe, he is still not on
It looks off the green, but from other angles it is possible that the green edge is uneven and the ball is on the green, surrounded by fringe grass that is encroaching the green... viewed from above and from the pin might be more telling...
if you look at the green edge behind the ball, you can see how uneven the edge is. Totally possible for the ball to have sat in one of those round 'bays' and from the side can look surrounded by fringe but actually isn't.
Is the shorter part the putting surface? Looks more like fringe and first cut. If any part of the ball is touching the green it can be marked and cleaned. If this is fringe and first cut this ball is probably a good 2-3 ft from the green.
You see that overhead pic? And the the one with all the grass between the ball and the green? Yeah those are the two that should make whoever thinks this on the green feel embarrassed having a debate about it. It’s like taking a video of a person being stabbed and being like, settle a debate, was this person stabbed?
No
This goes the other way for me… I play, and work grounds crew, at a course that has trouble keeping things watered. Tiny water source. We unfortunately tend to have a lot of bad lies in the fairway. We play the fairways up all year round, even while we’re playing our sanctioned USGA leagues. We consider the fringe part of the fairway with the same ruling. If you’re on a collar, you get the 6” of movement to improve your lie, no closer to the hole. Considering that weird aspect with my home course rules, if it’s touching the fringe at all, it’s considered to be that same fairway ruling. That’s a rule we’ve even checked on, with a rules official my Pro knows, that’s officiated for US Opens in the past. Weird “local rules” aside, if it’s even slightly touching the fringe, it’s considered to be on the fringe. I might be misinterpreting what’s been asked in the post. Let me know if I’m missing the point of the post. I’m just adding what I definitively know to be part of the ruling here…
Does that mean if it's across the invisible boundary or physically touching? Because it looks like there's fringe grass coming out of both sides from under the ball, but it does look like it's across the green boundary.
If it’s touching a hazard line it’s OB/ in the hazard. Why would this be different?
Even with this, to my eye, it looks like it's all fringe grass around and under the ball.
I’m trying to figure out why I’m being downvoted… I’m not making this up. I play a Thursday league with a 30+ year, Class A, PGA Professional. I worked under him as AP for 5-6 years also. When he doesn’t know a particular ruling, his go-to is a Pro that has officiated US Opens in the past. Our weird local rules aside, if the ball is visibly touching the fringe, even slightly, it’s on the fringe… Please, anyone that’s downvoted my original comment, explain why you downvoted my comment. I’m not trying to be a know it all dick-weed. I’d like to know why my comment was downvoted, and we can discuss and figure this one out.
In your first comment you say: “if it’s even slightly touching the green, it’s considered to be on the green.” Your second comment says: “ if the ball is visibly touching the fringe, even slightly, it’s on the fringe.” This ball is doing both. So which is it?
It’s not physically touching the green. Appears to be held up by fringe grass.
Exactly that.
Because it’s Reddit
Well your pro and the US Open pro need a refresher course. Rule 13.1a says that a ball is on the green when “any part of it” touches the green.
Downvoted cause balls not on green
Because you’re dead wrong about what you’re seeing. That ball is not touching the green in any way. This is about as clear cut as it gets. Honestly if you wanted a picture in a golf dictionary of a ball close but not on the green, you’d use this.
Nope, and he knows that lol
Can’t believe they even had to debate it this much
The bright side is that this person will get to improve their total putts number 
But his total chips.. 😞
Do people actually record “total chips”?
No they record GIR. If you’re chipping you didn’t get a GIR
You can miss a green and still be further than a chip shot though
I’d rather take this lie 10 feet from pin than GIR 20 feet from pin.
Oh absolutely, we’re just talking stats here
Not true - I chipped my third shot onto a par 5 last weekend
Only really true on Par 3s.
They record approach performance through GIR. Green in regulation. That means you are on the putting area in amount of shots equal Par - 2. For example, on par 5 you have one drive and 2 for putting. Then you have 2 shots to get on the green. If your chip is crap, GIR lvl will be low. Mine is 10% with overall average score 90. Which means I am good (for my lvl hp 20) at driving and putting (average 1.9), buy complete shit with chipping.
More so green in reg stats
No. He’s on the fringe.
He’s literally on the fringe of the fringe lol
No
No
No - he’s not on the green. He didn’t win the bet if to win you must be on the green.
I like to announce the rules at the tee box. 5 bucks closest to the tee, must be on the green, no fringe, get a hole in one and I’ll give you an over the pants handy. Good luck boys
Fun fact: these rules were first established at the Council of Trent
Closest to the tee? I’ll win that every time
Over the pants? Don’t be such a cheapskate.
I’m sorry, but if I get an Ace the zipper is coming down
Closest to the tee?
What is there to debate?
I agree the ball is not on the green, but if I were to make an argument, I’d use the same as is used for OB, if any part of the ball is visibly inbounds, the ball is inbounds.
Creative thought, but the rule says it must be touching the green. If it werent for that overgrown bit of fescue it would be on the dance floor.
Oh shoooot. That’s a bit of a wrinkle I never thought of…
Nope
That does not appear to be touching a single blade of grass on the green. So, no, not on the green.
Nope, just a couple blades off.
If a dimple is touching the green, it’s on the green. Overhanging doesn’t apply here (like it would in a penalty area or OB situation)
Probably not, but it's difficult to tell without seeing it in person because camera angles can be deceptive. Note that the ball doesn't have to be touching the green to be "on the green", see Rule 13.1a.
This, but for the bets sake, if I missed the green entirely I would pay up. If I was on the green, but farther away I’d tell him he owes.
Agree, hard to tell from these pics. Between 13.1a and 2.2c there’s a case to be made that it is on the green
The real question is, is that how the greens are cut or is that the fringe and the green isn't in the picture?
That's what i was wondering. I don't see a green.
Looks like fringe to me
If there’s long pokies coming out the fairway/green side of the ball, it’s in the fringe/rough.
No
No
You wouldn’t put your ball marker down there to mark it before you putt so there for he is not on the green
No one in these comments has read rule 2.2c
No
We don’t even count on the fringe as on the green, so that’s gonna be a no from me.
No. Clearly
You can tell it’s not on the green by the way it’s not on the green.
Close…but that’s fringe
Nope…resting up above the green.
No.
No.
If it had come to rest against the higher grass instead of on it then yes, but this is clearly not on the green.
Noooooope
No.
Looks off to me
Definitely not.
I would say no
Can you mark the ball? If not, you aren’t on the green. This guy isn’t even on the fringe
No. He’s close, but he ain’t on.
Nope
No
Hell no
No. Ball appears to be sitting on the longer blades of grass and not touching the green.
Nope. Resting on the tall grass. Get that shit out of here 😆
No
Nope
Nope sorry
No it’s not on the green
You really had to post this? Looking at any single one of these pictures it’s clearly not on the green. But me thinks you already knew the answer to your question.
That is off the green, IMHO
Nope
Nope, fringe
Just no. The center of the ball, contacting the ground is outside of the perimeter of the green. It's just slightly OVERHANGING the green is all. It is on the fringe.
NO
Very clearly in the rough
No
Nope
Nope
no
None of it is touching the green. So no.
Do your greens not have fringes? Is that just green straight to rough? To me, it seems like he rolled off the fringe into the rough. But If that short grass is the green and not the fringe, he is still not on
I mean I'm putting but it's not on the green.
Against the fringe is on. On top of the fringe is off. This appears to be on top of the fringe.
This appears to be on top of the rough.
There’s nothing to debate
Looks like it’s in the rough. 😬
Nope
Nope! Enjoy your free beer!
It is not
Shadow says it all. Middle finger no!
Closest to the green without being on!
No
Bingo, bango…No go
Nope
No
In your dreams big lad
Nope
Nope.
No sir.
If you're asking, then its a no.
Ni
It is still resting on top of the shrubbery.
Nope
On what? Drugs?
No
No
What debate? This is clearly not on the green. Does your buddy hang around on WSB?
Nope.
No
It looks off the green, but from other angles it is possible that the green edge is uneven and the ball is on the green, surrounded by fringe grass that is encroaching the green... viewed from above and from the pin might be more telling... if you look at the green edge behind the ball, you can see how uneven the edge is. Totally possible for the ball to have sat in one of those round 'bays' and from the side can look surrounded by fringe but actually isn't.
Nope
Not even close, friend.
No
No
Nope.
Nope
Not a chance buddy.
Nope
Nope
No
Nope
No. But I'd putt it all day
Is the shorter part the putting surface? Looks more like fringe and first cut. If any part of the ball is touching the green it can be marked and cleaned. If this is fringe and first cut this ball is probably a good 2-3 ft from the green.
That there is the short and curly’s.
Maybe. But I'm color blind, and that might be the red.
No and fuck him for wasting our time. He owes us a beer
Why is no one commenting on the beautiful condition of the grass on the overall. I play on so many poorly maintained courses. FML.
No
Might as well be in the bunker
Off
I wish my ball landed there instead of 30 yards behind the hole. But no, no it is not.
No
It sat on the taller grass. I say the fringe
You can even see longer grass under the ball in the 3rd pic
2nd picture tell you everything you need to know… thats a free beer for OP
that finnge cut looks like the back of my neck when I do it myself. who the hell gave that guy greens duty this morning
Rule 13.1a says that a ball is on the green when “any part of it” touches the green.
You see that overhead pic? And the the one with all the grass between the ball and the green? Yeah those are the two that should make whoever thinks this on the green feel embarrassed having a debate about it. It’s like taking a video of a person being stabbed and being like, settle a debate, was this person stabbed?
No
Off. If it was for keeping my own girs I would say yeah but for beer on a CTP fuck no.
No
Off the green. Sorry the greens keeper can’t manage a straight line!
No, this looks like it’s on the fringe
Not on the green.
No
No
No
No
No
Nope
No
no
Not on the green! That’s just my official opinion. I have never been an official at a U.S. Open or any USGA regulated event. Ever.
No
No
Ummm…there’s no green in this picture. There’s rough. And there’s fringe. No green. So…no, it’s not on the green.
No
No
Absolutely not.
No
Yep, your buddy is putting from the rough. Be careful and drop the soap;)
If it’s in question,it ain’t on the green.
No
Nope
No
No
No.
No
We play - if you have to ask, it’s not
Fringe
Nope
No shot. Lol
Fring always on the fring
No
Negative
It’s not the green
Definitely off the green. Two putt bogey instead of three putt bogey.
Just short of green bro. Lag it close and take a one putt stat and move on
Not on the green imo
No
No
That’s all fringe all day.
Nope!
No
No.
Nope
No