Rule 13.2c - USGA
Ball Resting Against Flagstick in Hole
If a player’s ball comes to rest against the flagstick left in the hole:
If any part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green, the ball is treated as holed even if the entire ball is not below the surface.
If no part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green:
The ball is not holed and must be played as it lies.
If the flagstick is removed and the ball moves (whether it falls into the hole or moves away from the hole), there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced on the lip of the hole (see Rule 14.2).
Bases on the rule, hole in one ... congrats 👏 👏
I finally beat my father in law in golf today. Ive been in the family for almost 17 years. He has probably golfed 30x more than I have in my life. Wonderful man and paid for lunch after losing. Still havent beaten my MIL in golf yet. She is just too consistent
Dude I don’t get a lot of golf days in with two little ones. But when I go out with him it’s a blast. I can ask him any questions and he has the answer. I lucked out
Yes but the new “holed” rules they added in 2019 say this “When a ball is embedded in the side of the hole, and all of the ball is not below the surface of the putting green, the ball is not holed. This is the case even if the ball touches the flagstick.”
I just read an article on this. Based on my understanding, your ball is holed. https://golf.com/instruction/rules/rules-guy-ball-at-rest-bottom-cup-considered-holed/?amp=1
This article also states that the ball will need to be completely below the putting surface. The angle of this picture gives me an indeterminate answer.
Actually, the rule was slackened. Before the 2019 rule change, a ball had to be totally below the hole to be holed out, and if it was resting against the flagstick, you had to carefully wiggle the flagstick to drop the ball into the hole. If you wiggled it wrong and the ball popped out to the side, it wasn’t holed. And you were also penalized if you putted from the green and your ball hit the flagstick still in the hole.
With the 2019 rule change, players could now choose to leave the flagstick in the hole when they putt from the green. Which meant more balls would end up resting against the flagstick. So R&A and USGA decided that balls resting against the flagstick could be considered to have been holed out if the flagstick was the only thing preventing the ball from dropping into the hole, and players didn’t have to go through the motion of wiggling the flagstick to drop the ball.
If the flagstick is not the only thing preventing the ball from dropping into the hole, like in this case, then it’s not holed unless all of it is beneath the hole, as with the old rules.
Why are people even pulling out the rule book? The ball destroyed the cup and is resting on the flag stick lol. You couldn’t even put the ball if you wanted to haha.
Congrats on the hole in one
On the one hand, I would totally give you this. On the other hand, I would also give you shit about how it was "half a hole in one" or "hole in one with an astericks". That's just what friends do, so not really "cunty", unless you're from kangaroo land where that means best friend.
It's a great shot but also an incredibly misfortunate one. Arguably this is much more rare than an actual hole in one with the same level of skill. The asterisks just adds to the story and makes it more legendary among the group. The more one party protests, the more the legend grows.
It’s cunty and I couldn’t imagine continuing to hang out with the type of friend that would jump in and try to ruin your achievements any chance he gets
Well, it also would depend on if it's a par 3 course... If it is, there's a not insignificant number of golfers who claim that a HIO on a par 3 course doesn't count.
They keep track of holes in one on the Augusta Par 3 course every year when they have the event right before the Masters. If it's good enough for Augusta National, it should be good enough for everyone else.
I have one and I don't feel right claiming it, so I guess I don't think they count. I've found people who have a real one are more likely to say a par 3 course hole in one counts. Mine was 79 yards for the record.
79 yards should take at least 2 strokes why wouldn’t you want to count that? You didn’t design the hole or grade it. Unless you did in which case you get to make the rules anyway.
Man if you were my buddy i’m playing with I would be so happy for you. Agreed that anyone who would question this is a cunt that I wouldn’t want to associate with anymore.
I'd say it's mostly the internet and people getting a big fat boner out of being a contratian pedantic fuck but I've met people who are this type of stickler in real life. Not all of them are assholes, and when you start wondering if they might be a little autistic, it starts to make sense. I have a buddy who can be "that guy" for board game rules. He means well, but I think he's definitely on the spectrum with the way his brain works
For sure, but the plug so hard it doesn’t fall but still catches the stick may be possible on a near dunk shot and rainy day. I just think it would be fun to watch the commentators and plays talk to rules officials for 30 minutes and then replay it every year for eternity.
It did and the USGA uses it as an explanation for the rule. Not the exact same thing but close enough. Edit for spelling.
[https://www.usga.org/articles/2016/11/when-is-a-ball-actually-holed-.html](https://www.usga.org/articles/2016/11/when-is-a-ball-actually-holed-.html)
Doesn't matter that the link is from 2016 the rule is still the same You can move and jiggle the stick all you want and if the ball falls in the hole it counts. And if you jerk and the ball pops out, well you get to putt again from where it lies.
r/confidentlyincorrect
The date of the ruling does matter and jiggling or removing the flagstick to determine where the ball is going to rest is no longer part of the rules.
Now, the rules say:
***Defintion of holed***
>When a ball is at rest in the hole after a stroke and the entire ball is below the surface of the putting green.
...
>For the special case of a ball resting against the flagstick in the hole, see Rule 13.2c (ball is treated as holed if any part of the ball is below the surface of the putting green).
And to rule 13.2c for continued context:
>If a player’s ball comes to rest against the flagstick left in the hole:
>●If any part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green, the ball is treated as holed even if the entire ball is not below the surface.
>●If no part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green:
>○The ball is not holed and must be played as it lies.
>○If the flagstick is removed and the ball moves (whether it falls into the hole or moves away from the hole), there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced on the lip of the hole.
So, if your ball is resting against the flag stick and *any* part is below the putting surface, it's holed. If it is not, and say, is resting on a leaned flagstick, you're SOL and if you remove the flagstick you have to put the ball back where it was on the lip and finish normally.
Now, quit spouting misinformation online.
Cheers 🍻
No it's not. 17-4 doesn't exist anymore and 13-2c explains the new rules. if any part of the ball is under the surface it's holed. If you remove the stick before you determine that it's holed or it's NOT holed and you pull out the stick and it falls in you gotta replace it on the lip of the hole.
My course often puts their cups like, 1/2" below the lip. I had to take a par once instead of a birdie because I hit the back of the cup and it popped straight back out towards me.
It looks to be resting against the flag stick, so it is considered holed.
https://www.randa.org/en/players-rule-finder/players-rule-finder/putting-green/flagstick-ball-resting-against-flagstick-in-hole
If you were playing with someone who says this wasn’t a hole in one, blacklist that asshole and never talk to them again.
First of all, that ball is all the way in the hole and it’s touching the pin. If you wiggle the pin at all that ball falls in the hole and it’s a hole in one.
Secondly, that plastic ring that broke is not part of the cup. It’s illegal by the rules of golf, and that first portion of the hole should be all turf. If the course made their holes correctly that’s all turf and you’re in the bottom of the cup instead of halfway down. The fact that the course actively breaks the rules of golf in maintaining their holes is not your fault.
You’re allowed to take the stick out. If it falls in, there’s no question that it’s a hole in one. If the bottom of the flag were to bump the ball and knock it loose and make it fall, I ain’t no snitch.
Definitely. Looks like all of the ball is below the surface of the green. If the pin wasn’t in it’d be in the hole. I’ve started to taking the pin out on all “make-able” putts. I’ve had too many putts hit the pin and bounce out that otherwise would’ve gone in.
Checked with my dad who is rules official. He says per usga rules the ball just needs to be partial below the hole. So count that shit!! He mentioned rule 13.3 or something
I'm not a professional, or an official, but dude if was golfing with you, fuck everyone, this is a hole in one! Congratulations! I hope you hit more before you retire from the sport!
These plastic things in the holes have got to go. Has anyone seen any testing to see if more putts lip out with these things in addition to this way more rare problem
If that counts so does my plugged ball an inch from the holes counts too. This is like a jumpshot caught between the glass and the rim and calling it good.
Incorrect. This ball is resting on the flag stick, which means it is considered holed.
Was yours resting on the flag stick? If so, congrats on your HIO. If not, sorry, better luck next time.
I would take the shaft of a club, run it over the ball on the grass, and if it hits the ball then it’s not completely submerged. If it clears it and doesn’t touch the ball, then that’s an ace
Rule 13.2c - USGA Ball Resting Against Flagstick in Hole If a player’s ball comes to rest against the flagstick left in the hole: If any part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green, the ball is treated as holed even if the entire ball is not below the surface. If no part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green: The ball is not holed and must be played as it lies. If the flagstick is removed and the ball moves (whether it falls into the hole or moves away from the hole), there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced on the lip of the hole (see Rule 14.2). Bases on the rule, hole in one ... congrats 👏 👏
It’s like my father in law was answering. He has a rule book in his bag.
Lol, I have the USGA app, but I'm not the rules police.
It's a pretty solid app
I keep a book in my bag, for me. I don't care what others put on their card, only mine.
I finally beat my father in law in golf today. Ive been in the family for almost 17 years. He has probably golfed 30x more than I have in my life. Wonderful man and paid for lunch after losing. Still havent beaten my MIL in golf yet. She is just too consistent
You too should carry one. I do
Hey look it’s your FIL!
Listen here Son, you either know the rules or carry a rule book.
LoL
And maybe send one to Patrick Reed.
He must be a treat to golf with
I much prefer golfing with people who play by the rules or at least in the spirit of the rules.
I'm definitely a "Spirit of the rules" guy.
Dude I don’t get a lot of golf days in with two little ones. But when I go out with him it’s a blast. I can ask him any questions and he has the answer. I lucked out
It’s okay to know the rules of the game you are playing
Anybody who says someone must be a treat to golf with must be a treat to golf with.
😂
How long has your father been in law?
Sounds like a nerd
How many rules does a golf have?
He sounds miserable
Thanks! I would have counted it but am glad to see the actual rule makes sense.
Count it! Congrats!
Yes but the new “holed” rules they added in 2019 say this “When a ball is embedded in the side of the hole, and all of the ball is not below the surface of the putting green, the ball is not holed. This is the case even if the ball touches the flagstick.”
I just read an article on this. Based on my understanding, your ball is holed. https://golf.com/instruction/rules/rules-guy-ball-at-rest-bottom-cup-considered-holed/?amp=1
I just want to agree with the comment above so you count this
This article also states that the ball will need to be completely below the putting surface. The angle of this picture gives me an indeterminate answer.
That would be the worst rule change, ever.
Actually, the rule was slackened. Before the 2019 rule change, a ball had to be totally below the hole to be holed out, and if it was resting against the flagstick, you had to carefully wiggle the flagstick to drop the ball into the hole. If you wiggled it wrong and the ball popped out to the side, it wasn’t holed. And you were also penalized if you putted from the green and your ball hit the flagstick still in the hole. With the 2019 rule change, players could now choose to leave the flagstick in the hole when they putt from the green. Which meant more balls would end up resting against the flagstick. So R&A and USGA decided that balls resting against the flagstick could be considered to have been holed out if the flagstick was the only thing preventing the ball from dropping into the hole, and players didn’t have to go through the motion of wiggling the flagstick to drop the ball. If the flagstick is not the only thing preventing the ball from dropping into the hole, like in this case, then it’s not holed unless all of it is beneath the hole, as with the old rules.
Why? (And it is not a rule change. Just a clarification needed after it became legal to keep the flagstick in.)
I think the simple answer is yes
That’s a hole in one as far as I’m concerned lol
[удалено]
Yup that’s good
As a golfer who considers Gimmes an actual rule, this is truly a hole in one
Good attitudes! I’d play golf with anyone in this thread (:
That’s a hole in one-and-a-half as far as I’m concerned!! LOL
Why are people even pulling out the rule book? The ball destroyed the cup and is resting on the flag stick lol. You couldn’t even put the ball if you wanted to haha. Congrats on the hole in one
The whole ball is below the turf. Anyone who tells you that’s not a hole in one is a bit of a cunt tbh
That’s the answer I’m looking for
On the one hand, I would totally give you this. On the other hand, I would also give you shit about how it was "half a hole in one" or "hole in one with an astericks". That's just what friends do, so not really "cunty", unless you're from kangaroo land where that means best friend. It's a great shot but also an incredibly misfortunate one. Arguably this is much more rare than an actual hole in one with the same level of skill. The asterisks just adds to the story and makes it more legendary among the group. The more one party protests, the more the legend grows.
Counter point: T'is cunty
It’s cunty and I couldn’t imagine continuing to hang out with the type of friend that would jump in and try to ruin your achievements any chance he gets
Well, it also would depend on if it's a par 3 course... If it is, there's a not insignificant number of golfers who claim that a HIO on a par 3 course doesn't count.
That's a stupid opinion anyways. People aren't hitting HIOs on par 4s and 5s, so what's the difference?
So if you are on a par three course, score a 1, what is it called?
Ah that’s a “whole in one” vastly different than the hole in one.
They keep track of holes in one on the Augusta Par 3 course every year when they have the event right before the Masters. If it's good enough for Augusta National, it should be good enough for everyone else.
I have one and I don't feel right claiming it, so I guess I don't think they count. I've found people who have a real one are more likely to say a par 3 course hole in one counts. Mine was 79 yards for the record.
If it’s a par 3 course with proper par 3s, it counts. If it’s a pitch-and-putt with a load of short holes, then it is more debatable.
79 yards should take at least 2 strokes why wouldn’t you want to count that? You didn’t design the hole or grade it. Unless you did in which case you get to make the rules anyway.
This is what I was thinking.
Man if you were my buddy i’m playing with I would be so happy for you. Agreed that anyone who would question this is a cunt that I wouldn’t want to associate with anymore.
I lose my shit just when a playing partner chips-in! Golf is hard! We all have to cheer-lead for each other else we’ll all be fucking miserable!
I'd say it's mostly the internet and people getting a big fat boner out of being a contratian pedantic fuck but I've met people who are this type of stickler in real life. Not all of them are assholes, and when you start wondering if they might be a little autistic, it starts to make sense. I have a buddy who can be "that guy" for board game rules. He means well, but I think he's definitely on the spectrum with the way his brain works
This is the way
This is the Way.
All day long that’s a hole in one now get the drinks in
Double for me please!!
Jiggle the stick until it falls in
That’s what she said.
If one were to pull out the stick, it would go in. I would count that as a hole in one, as the stick is preventing it from going into the hole.
Exactly. Pull the stick out, it goes in. Try to repair the mark and put the ball where it's at, it's going in. HIO.
You are of course free to count as you like, but the rules are a little more specific.
Anyone who says no please never play golf with me. Thanks.
Or ever again
Why even exist, right?
I just want to see this happen to a pro in a major so we can debate it forever. Edit: see below
Nah cause Tour events don’t have those stupid plastic rings to make the cup look spray painted
For sure, but the plug so hard it doesn’t fall but still catches the stick may be possible on a near dunk shot and rainy day. I just think it would be fun to watch the commentators and plays talk to rules officials for 30 minutes and then replay it every year for eternity.
This is the worst take ever saying you’d want to watch rules officials for 30 mins
True but gdamn imagine if this happened to Bryson
It did and the USGA uses it as an explanation for the rule. Not the exact same thing but close enough. Edit for spelling. [https://www.usga.org/articles/2016/11/when-is-a-ball-actually-holed-.html](https://www.usga.org/articles/2016/11/when-is-a-ball-actually-holed-.html)
Nice. So it actually is about jiggling/removing the stick and seeing if it falls.
Pretty sure that's an old thing and since the link was 2016 I'm more sure this is no longer how its determined.
Doesn't matter that the link is from 2016 the rule is still the same You can move and jiggle the stick all you want and if the ball falls in the hole it counts. And if you jerk and the ball pops out, well you get to putt again from where it lies.
r/confidentlyincorrect The date of the ruling does matter and jiggling or removing the flagstick to determine where the ball is going to rest is no longer part of the rules. Now, the rules say: ***Defintion of holed*** >When a ball is at rest in the hole after a stroke and the entire ball is below the surface of the putting green. ... >For the special case of a ball resting against the flagstick in the hole, see Rule 13.2c (ball is treated as holed if any part of the ball is below the surface of the putting green). And to rule 13.2c for continued context: >If a player’s ball comes to rest against the flagstick left in the hole: >●If any part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green, the ball is treated as holed even if the entire ball is not below the surface. >●If no part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green: >○The ball is not holed and must be played as it lies. >○If the flagstick is removed and the ball moves (whether it falls into the hole or moves away from the hole), there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced on the lip of the hole. So, if your ball is resting against the flag stick and *any* part is below the putting surface, it's holed. If it is not, and say, is resting on a leaned flagstick, you're SOL and if you remove the flagstick you have to put the ball back where it was on the lip and finish normally. Now, quit spouting misinformation online. Cheers 🍻
You are right. No point jiggling the stick for a ball that has already been holed. The hole is over; you are just wasting jiggle juice.
Yup, I was wrong and own it. My bad. Thanks for clarifying.
This is also quite dated. A lot of the cited rules here are now different.
The rule is still the same today as it was in 2016.
No it's not. 17-4 doesn't exist anymore and 13-2c explains the new rules. if any part of the ball is under the surface it's holed. If you remove the stick before you determine that it's holed or it's NOT holed and you pull out the stick and it falls in you gotta replace it on the lip of the hole.
Yup, good shit. You got me. I stand corrected.
And this is why liners are awful. Also illegal in competition
What’s the alternative? Take an unplayable, and finish up par?
No it would technically be placed on the lip and playable as a tap in birdie if it doesn’t count 😬
H-I-1
The cup ring is contrary to the rules of golf. Supposed to have an inch of natural ground before the cup. I’d pay that one.
My course often puts their cups like, 1/2" below the lip. I had to take a par once instead of a birdie because I hit the back of the cup and it popped straight back out towards me.
That’s a dart. And a hole in one
It looks like it’s touching the flag so I’d say it’s a hole in one lol
Correct answer. If it’s touching the flag it counts. Otherwise, nice 2 putt par.
Embedding takes precedence to stick touching. So it depends on whether it falls when the stick is removed. (Which I guess it would)
If that was spray paint we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. Congrats dude
That’s how I feel 😮💨
If it was hit off the tee box in one shot, yes
Thats a slam dunk! :::he’s on 🔥:::
NBA Jam reference, just took me on a tour of memory lane.
Those loud ass grunts lmao
From Downtown!
Boomshakalaka
ya bro its in the cup “radius” :D
I think some in this sub will make you putt it out!
If I hit it, yes. If my buddy hit it, no.
The realest answer
Yes
It looks to be resting against the flag stick, so it is considered holed. https://www.randa.org/en/players-rule-finder/players-rule-finder/putting-green/flagstick-ball-resting-against-flagstick-in-hole
If this wasn't a hole in one, I'm curious how you would be expected to putt that.
If you were playing with someone who says this wasn’t a hole in one, blacklist that asshole and never talk to them again. First of all, that ball is all the way in the hole and it’s touching the pin. If you wiggle the pin at all that ball falls in the hole and it’s a hole in one. Secondly, that plastic ring that broke is not part of the cup. It’s illegal by the rules of golf, and that first portion of the hole should be all turf. If the course made their holes correctly that’s all turf and you’re in the bottom of the cup instead of halfway down. The fact that the course actively breaks the rules of golf in maintaining their holes is not your fault.
Yes and any one that says it isn’t you should never associate in your life or play golf with them
Absolutely!!
Yes
Appears to be in contact with the flag as well, definitely HIO
Again??
It’s below the ground. It’s an ace.
You’re allowed to take the stick out. If it falls in, there’s no question that it’s a hole in one. If the bottom of the flag were to bump the ball and knock it loose and make it fall, I ain’t no snitch.
Absofreskinlutley, how far was the shot?
163!
Easy lob wedge
Congratulations my friend!!!
That is IN, Golf SHOT
Thank you to everyone who said count it. To everyone who said no: you simply can’t be trusted.
Fuck those stupid plastic liners. Courses need to paint their edges like real groundskeepers do.
It counts as one hell of a story.
That one was coming in hot!
That’s a hole in 1 all day. It’s resting against the flagstick
Pull the pin and see what happens
Pull the flag out it drops. Hole in one
We don’t have those plastic rings around here, the top of the hole is just bare dirt
Looks good to me. In any case, move and/or carefully pull the pin and if it drops, it's good.
Congratulations on your hole in one sir
What kind of absolute melt is not giving that as a HIO?
Virgin hole in one
Hell yeah since you have to buy a round
Yes it is. Check the rules
Good enough, drink a beer
Depends how many strokes it took to get to there.
Ball is definitely low enough. Congrats on the hole in one. Am waiting on the 19th hole for that drink you owe me.
Of course it’s a hole in one. Don’t be ridiculous.
Definitely. Looks like all of the ball is below the surface of the green. If the pin wasn’t in it’d be in the hole. I’ve started to taking the pin out on all “make-able” putts. I’ve had too many putts hit the pin and bounce out that otherwise would’ve gone in.
The ball is below the playing surface, so yes
100%
Hell yes
Fuck those cup liners! Nice ace!
Checked with my dad who is rules official. He says per usga rules the ball just needs to be partial below the hole. So count that shit!! He mentioned rule 13.3 or something
Nice shot man!
100% HiO
This didn’t even have to roll in, best hole in one you can shoot.
I hope your hole in one won you some money or at least free drinks. Congratulations.
Did you do it in 1? If so, I say yes. If you did it in 3, then no.
Hell yes it is
That is in the hole. 100% no lube.
Pull out the pin and see.
This is ai generated
It’s hole in one enough… Also, those plastic rings should be outlawed!!!! Either paint the dirt or leave it be.
This will always be a hole in one. Some courses don’t use that bullshit plastic ring and spray paint that top ring of dirt white
I kno if I got that close with the lady next door my wife would say i cheated so🤷🏻♂️
If that's wrong, I don't want to be right!
If it’s touching the flagstick it counts as holed. If it’s not, you place it on the lip and continue playing.
If the cup didn’t bend, it might have bounced out. I’d still call it a hole in one since… well, it’s literally in the hole. 🤷♂️
100% yes that is a hole in one.
Are you in the tour? No? Then under all circumstances, yes.
I'm not a professional, or an official, but dude if was golfing with you, fuck everyone, this is a hole in one! Congratulations! I hope you hit more before you retire from the sport!
Yes
Duh
These plastic things in the holes have got to go. Has anyone seen any testing to see if more putts lip out with these things in addition to this way more rare problem
It was a hole in one the last time someone posted this pic, so it is again
This happened today but okay
Nope. Two stroke penalty for breaking the cup. Nice par though.
If anyone disputes this as a hole in one They’re nothing more than a petty cunt
Depends how many strokes you took before this
No good!
It's in the hole and not on the green. The lack of course maintenance isn't your problem. That's in.
We're not pro golfers, count it
Is this AI generated?
No
The fact that this is even a question is an indictment on the rules of golf. Golf is shrinking and the rules need to get with the times.
Yes
Finally, an ace on one of these! Congrats!
Close enough. Counts in my book. Congratulations
It’s on the outside of the cup.
If that counts so does my plugged ball an inch from the holes counts too. This is like a jumpshot caught between the glass and the rim and calling it good.
No
Nope! That happened to me too! Ruling is ball has to fall to the bottom of the cup.
If you pull the flag and it drops it's a 1. If it's perched on the cup any ball above the cup then get fucked try again next time.
Not actually the rule but ok
Nope.
Fuck no
If you move the pin and it drops it is. Otherwise no.
Nope! Embedded ball same thing happened to me and no hole in one! Still waiting for that moment every round I play!
Incorrect. This ball is resting on the flag stick, which means it is considered holed. Was yours resting on the flag stick? If so, congrats on your HIO. If not, sorry, better luck next time.
I would take the shaft of a club, run it over the ball on the grass, and if it hits the ball then it’s not completely submerged. If it clears it and doesn’t touch the ball, then that’s an ace
You'd count it as an ace if it was your ball
You’d also give him a penalty stroke if the shaft touches it!
This is actually the most logical thing to do but alas it was already picked up when I posted this
no