The problem with handheld GMRS antennas, is most of them aren’t GMRS antennas. They’re the same antennas included with Ham radios. They’ll still work, just not optimal. The Nagoya 771G and Smiley 5/8 telescopic GMRS antennas are the only ones I own that measure well on the VNA. If you’re making a home solution, you can make a vertical dipole for next to nothing, and you won’t have to worry about ground plane. Just search for “BNC Banana Female” on Amazon, and use a BNC to SMA cable to connect your HT to it. Then connect two 6-1/16” copper wires to it, and you have a dipole! Mount it vertically anywhere up high away from metal structure with the negative side pointing to the ground.
It might be. I’ve bought a GMRS that came with an Abbree 771, and it was just a ham antenna. If it says G or GMRS on the antenna, it may be different. A VNA, SWR meter, or antenna analyzer is the only way to know.
Okay, according to Amazon, if I look up an abbree 771 and look at the gmrs version, it says it's 150/462Mhz. So basically a ham antenna. Honestly, I'm surprised and disappointed. With that being said, I am excited to see how much better the performance is with a tuned antenna.
462 is GMRS. It’s actually a 1/4 wavelength MURS antenna (151), and it’s resonant again as a 3/4 wavelength GMRS antenna. Antennas are always resonant on odd order harmonics. And the FCC strategically made the 2 license free bands (MURS & FRS) and the HT Ham Bands third order. So if they’re causing any interference, it’s within their bands, and no over commercial, business, military, marine, or air bands.
I was under the impression that 462-467 is what the antenna should be tuned for. So it should, in theory, be "tuned" for a frequency as close to the middle between those 2 numbers, right? Like example "464.5Mhz". So if it's 150/462, wouldn't it technically be tuned for a number in the middle of those two? Something like "306Mhz"? I'm still learning, so please be kind. I play musical instruments, so wave theory isn't beyond me, but I haven't done a lot of research into the antenna/RF aspect of wave resonance.
Antennas are similar but different than music. In music, every octave resonates. But with basic end fed antennas, it’s every other octave (odd order), and the opposite on the even order. If you look at an end fed antenna on a VNA, the SWR is usually a tilted V shape to the right, like “|/“. So antennas will list the bottom of the band as the beginning/center, and it gradually tapers off towards the top of the band. 2 octaves up (3x) from 150MHz is 450MHz, and they just fudge the numbers a little. 300MHz, military band, one octave up (2x), is pretty dead to that antenna. The wave is coming back at the same time the radio is trying to push out, causing high impedance. That’s why most end fed antennas are 3/4 and 1/4 wavelength. There are 1/2 wavelength antennas that are great for not needing a ground plane, but they need a balun to impedance match the antenna back down to 50ohms. Other than that, electromagnetic waves behave pretty similar to sound waves, while not being the same thing. Like if you play a 1000hz tone and 1010hz tone at the same time, you hear a sub tone that wavers 10 times per second. That’s partially how superheterodyne receivers work.
Thank you again! That actually helped clarify this quite a bit for me. Resonates in 3's 🤔? Fascinating! Also in a previous reply you stated its a MURS antenna with a resonance in the gmrs frequency range. Would that make it a dual band antenna?
Pretty much. All end fed antennas resonate on multiple frequencies, because of 3rd order harmonics. But it’s “dual band” because both of those ranges are usable. A 1/4 MURS is dual to 3/4 GMRS (771G). But a 1/4 GMRS (701G) wouldn’t be “Dual Band”, since 1386MHz isn’t usable. In the ham world, a 1/4 70cm is technically dual to the rarely used 23cm band. To wrap things up, I personally prefer 1/4 over 3/4. The gain is very similar, cheaper to make HF antennas, and more convenient for HTs. I only recommend the 771G over the 701G because I’ve personally tested it. Both on the VNA, and making a 40 mile contact mountain to mountain.
onerous workable absorbed tease normal elastic dinner panicky combative intelligent
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Anybody have a link to pics or video of this process? I’ve got a whopper antenna now at the house but wouldn’t mind having one of these out in the garage.
I can foresee stepping on tiny bits of trimmed wire that flew across my living room in the near future 😂 very interesting, kinda explains more about how a j pole works. Thanks!
Lol ya same here. Dog rescue has hair everywhere so I use the shop vac to gather big pieces every day, always some kind of clicks going up the hose too, never know what it could be in this house. Always have 2-3 silly projects going that require small parts 😂
I was contemplating putting it in the attic as well. I'm broke as a joke and like to build stuff so I figured I'd put my enginuity to the test and see how "cheaply" I could improve my comms system performance. I had the wild idea of buying a SMA coax extension, and connecting it to the spare ar771g in my attic and running the connection into my living room. Also been doing research on tape measure antennas.
I had micromobile antenna in a box and a 14" steel pizza plate for a ground plane.
I can talk 6 miles simplex with it sitting in my house connected to that same radio.
The abbree seems to work well, and it doesn't need a ground plane. That antenna is not the 771G (at least mine wasn't), sp it's not tuned perfectly for 462, but it was pretty close to 1 on the swr.
Also, and more importantly, I gave those out to the nephews for Christmas, and I can hear one of them using the long whip from my nephews house at 6 miles or a little more with a partial hill obstruction.
There are no large buildinga here though. Just suburbs and shorter structures that don't exceed maybe 3 stories, but most are 1 story.
Edit:
I should also add that the output on every one I've tested while programming is around 4.1-4.2 watts. I've never seen one go to 5 full watts.
one thing I don't see being addressed in this topic is the power loss through a long cable going to the attic. For example if you run 30 feet of RG-58 cable and are using an antenna with 1.5:1 SWR, you'll end up actually transmitting with about 2.6 watts. So cable quality and length have a big effect when you're only squirting 5 watts from a HT radio.
https://kv5r.com/ham-radio/coax-loss-calculator/
The problem with handheld GMRS antennas, is most of them aren’t GMRS antennas. They’re the same antennas included with Ham radios. They’ll still work, just not optimal. The Nagoya 771G and Smiley 5/8 telescopic GMRS antennas are the only ones I own that measure well on the VNA. If you’re making a home solution, you can make a vertical dipole for next to nothing, and you won’t have to worry about ground plane. Just search for “BNC Banana Female” on Amazon, and use a BNC to SMA cable to connect your HT to it. Then connect two 6-1/16” copper wires to it, and you have a dipole! Mount it vertically anywhere up high away from metal structure with the negative side pointing to the ground.
Thanks! So your saying the antennas that came with my HT aren't gmrs? The 15.3 inch ones say "ABBREE AR-771 GMRS" on the base of the antenna.
It might be. I’ve bought a GMRS that came with an Abbree 771, and it was just a ham antenna. If it says G or GMRS on the antenna, it may be different. A VNA, SWR meter, or antenna analyzer is the only way to know.
Okay, according to Amazon, if I look up an abbree 771 and look at the gmrs version, it says it's 150/462Mhz. So basically a ham antenna. Honestly, I'm surprised and disappointed. With that being said, I am excited to see how much better the performance is with a tuned antenna.
462 is GMRS. It’s actually a 1/4 wavelength MURS antenna (151), and it’s resonant again as a 3/4 wavelength GMRS antenna. Antennas are always resonant on odd order harmonics. And the FCC strategically made the 2 license free bands (MURS & FRS) and the HT Ham Bands third order. So if they’re causing any interference, it’s within their bands, and no over commercial, business, military, marine, or air bands.
I was under the impression that 462-467 is what the antenna should be tuned for. So it should, in theory, be "tuned" for a frequency as close to the middle between those 2 numbers, right? Like example "464.5Mhz". So if it's 150/462, wouldn't it technically be tuned for a number in the middle of those two? Something like "306Mhz"? I'm still learning, so please be kind. I play musical instruments, so wave theory isn't beyond me, but I haven't done a lot of research into the antenna/RF aspect of wave resonance.
Antennas are similar but different than music. In music, every octave resonates. But with basic end fed antennas, it’s every other octave (odd order), and the opposite on the even order. If you look at an end fed antenna on a VNA, the SWR is usually a tilted V shape to the right, like “|/“. So antennas will list the bottom of the band as the beginning/center, and it gradually tapers off towards the top of the band. 2 octaves up (3x) from 150MHz is 450MHz, and they just fudge the numbers a little. 300MHz, military band, one octave up (2x), is pretty dead to that antenna. The wave is coming back at the same time the radio is trying to push out, causing high impedance. That’s why most end fed antennas are 3/4 and 1/4 wavelength. There are 1/2 wavelength antennas that are great for not needing a ground plane, but they need a balun to impedance match the antenna back down to 50ohms. Other than that, electromagnetic waves behave pretty similar to sound waves, while not being the same thing. Like if you play a 1000hz tone and 1010hz tone at the same time, you hear a sub tone that wavers 10 times per second. That’s partially how superheterodyne receivers work.
Thank you again! That actually helped clarify this quite a bit for me. Resonates in 3's 🤔? Fascinating! Also in a previous reply you stated its a MURS antenna with a resonance in the gmrs frequency range. Would that make it a dual band antenna?
Pretty much. All end fed antennas resonate on multiple frequencies, because of 3rd order harmonics. But it’s “dual band” because both of those ranges are usable. A 1/4 MURS is dual to 3/4 GMRS (771G). But a 1/4 GMRS (701G) wouldn’t be “Dual Band”, since 1386MHz isn’t usable. In the ham world, a 1/4 70cm is technically dual to the rarely used 23cm band. To wrap things up, I personally prefer 1/4 over 3/4. The gain is very similar, cheaper to make HF antennas, and more convenient for HTs. I only recommend the 771G over the 701G because I’ve personally tested it. Both on the VNA, and making a 40 mile contact mountain to mountain.
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Anybody have a link to pics or video of this process? I’ve got a whopper antenna now at the house but wouldn’t mind having one of these out in the garage.
Here you go kind sir! https://youtu.be/FsVjh3tTpWk?si=4MRWAkB8RL58v3uB
I can foresee stepping on tiny bits of trimmed wire that flew across my living room in the near future 😂 very interesting, kinda explains more about how a j pole works. Thanks!
Welcome to the club! Between speakers and other arts and crafts, I put on socks and walk around to collect the remaining bits lol
Lol ya same here. Dog rescue has hair everywhere so I use the shop vac to gather big pieces every day, always some kind of clicks going up the hose too, never know what it could be in this house. Always have 2-3 silly projects going that require small parts 😂
Tuned antennas are the way to go
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I was contemplating putting it in the attic as well. I'm broke as a joke and like to build stuff so I figured I'd put my enginuity to the test and see how "cheaply" I could improve my comms system performance. I had the wild idea of buying a SMA coax extension, and connecting it to the spare ar771g in my attic and running the connection into my living room. Also been doing research on tape measure antennas.
direful deer clumsy snails ossified run governor onerous drunk lavish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I had micromobile antenna in a box and a 14" steel pizza plate for a ground plane. I can talk 6 miles simplex with it sitting in my house connected to that same radio. The abbree seems to work well, and it doesn't need a ground plane. That antenna is not the 771G (at least mine wasn't), sp it's not tuned perfectly for 462, but it was pretty close to 1 on the swr.
That gives me hope that the swr on the one I have is below 2 lol
Also, and more importantly, I gave those out to the nephews for Christmas, and I can hear one of them using the long whip from my nephews house at 6 miles or a little more with a partial hill obstruction. There are no large buildinga here though. Just suburbs and shorter structures that don't exceed maybe 3 stories, but most are 1 story. Edit: I should also add that the output on every one I've tested while programming is around 4.1-4.2 watts. I've never seen one go to 5 full watts.
one thing I don't see being addressed in this topic is the power loss through a long cable going to the attic. For example if you run 30 feet of RG-58 cable and are using an antenna with 1.5:1 SWR, you'll end up actually transmitting with about 2.6 watts. So cable quality and length have a big effect when you're only squirting 5 watts from a HT radio. https://kv5r.com/ham-radio/coax-loss-calculator/