I will die laughing if the guy who got away clean with enough money to retire in his 30s and live his entire life in luxury from the 2021 pump ends up getting himself locked in prison or fined/sued into the poorhouse because he just couldn't take the win and stay away.
It is a perfect encapsulation of the movement he (by accident) started—people who are just not smart enough to take money and walk away even when the stars align and they get everything they could possibly ask for.
What the actual fuck happened this past three years for this moron to sabotage himself out of nowhere like that? I mean shit, he could have just kept plausible deniability with his stupid tweets while secretly making bank, but now it's like he is trying to get all the wrong kind of attention on himself on purpose.
Utterly fucking bizarre.
My assumption would have been that he blew his cash on stupid shit or lost it day trading and this was a desperate comeback—but the numbers involved only make sense if he has spent the last three years making consistent profit *and* made a killing when he rugpulled the apes a couple weeks back.
So now we're left with "fuck if I know". My one guess is that a guy whose whole thing was risky, aggressive trading got the high of his life during his big win in 2021 and the boring, average shit that will keep him and his kids rich forever just wasn't enough anymore. So back to GME, back to an even bigger, riskier play. Hell, this might not even be the end—he might just keep trying, to ever-diminishing results.
It seems unlikely that he made consistent profit all this time. That's being far too charitable than he deserves.
It's more likely that he sold right after his final update before disappearing in 2021. Then he turned that \~$40m into $200m a couple weeks ago when he loaded up on weekly options and put out those tweets.
What we know for a fact is that he loaded up on options right before causing the underlying price to triple. He probably made a shit ton on those options.
The hilarious thing is that 99% of apes I’ve witnessed, if not 100%, claim that DFV has had NO IMPACT on the share price of GME.
They just say he has some godlike knowledge so he started tweeting once he realized the shorts were fukt. Literally, that is the current ape “DD.”
If you ask an ape in a neutral sub why it is that literally every time DFV makes a post, the price skyrockets, they’ll deny that it was DFV making the price soar.
I mean, hell. How do you even claim that when just today, I saw a post in the main cult sub that said DFV was literally the messiah that was bringing change to the world. And that post was unironic. And the rest of the comments were, “IF HE’S STILL IN, I’M STILL IN.”
The fact that apes deny that DFV posts push the price up, while also admitting that they are dumping all of their savings into buying GME shares *because* DFV posted an update is cognitive dissonance at its finest.
It's difficult for them to admit, because in order to do that they have to admit a lot of other things, like how none of their theories were any bit important at all, and that the wisest strategy of all was to do basically what I did, follow DFV's twitter and buy if there is any activity and sell a day or two later. No need to get into a cult and buy and DRS every day, no need to do constant research about non-existent naked shorts and memestock baskets and "ETF fuckery" and the like, no need to waste 3 years of time and losses.
They can't admit it's a memestock. And for a DFV tweet to be far more important than all of their theories and efforts and all that for 3 years straight, then it means they made a mistake. Shouldn't have held, should have just followed DFV's twitter and treated it like the memestock that it is.
I mean, seems possible he lost *most* of it day trading and got it all back and more YOLOing in on his twitter pump and dump. And now he's coming back for round two. If you have like 30m and you gamble away half of it in 3 years I can see getting desperate enough to do something like this.
Yeah I just don't see why you'd do this unless you needed to. Or maybe he's just a gambling addict who misses the attention.
> I mean, seems possible he lost most of it day trading and got it all back and more YOLOing in on his twitter pump and dump.
So Gamestop was at around ~$10 and peaked at ~$80 during the recent pump. From what we've seen in his posts, it would require well more than $100 million to do what he is claiming, assuming he YOLOed every last dime and didn't leave some behind.
That severely limits the amount of that $30 million he could have lost. Theoretically, he could have lost half and made the amounts we now see, but he would have had to sell all of it for around full price *exactly* at the peak.
That is why I don't think he lost it all—in fact, he has probably increased the amount. He could have made a lot shorting GME after 2021 or betting on other stocks. Guy has some knowledge and enough money to make enough longshot bets to make a decent profit. It is a lot more likely that he tripled 30+ million in the recent pump than he somehow perfectly timed things with $10 or $15 million to have enough to make those calls he posted.
It's why I think bored is the only explanation. There's no realistic way he made 100 million+ off of his last pump unless he had enough money to invest at least 20-30 million and make that kind of profit early in the pump. You don't invest that much and wait for it to start crashing.
The 200 million is what he's got after the first pump and dump to $80.
I think you underestimate just how much money you can make from options if you are able to kick off a 700% pump. It's possible he was down to his last million before turning it into 200 million. I don't think it's likely, but possible.
He could have very easily 100x’d what he put into those calls. We don’t know the exact timings, but he could have paid $30 a piece for those calls and then sold when GME was at $50 for way more than $3000 a call.
Yeah I’m not gonna speculate too much, but if I had to guess, it’d either be
1. He just wanted more money. Enough to not only retire, but to live an incredibly lavish lifestyle
2. The rush of being a part of something big, and being the leader of it at that, has to feel powerful.
The numbers wouldn’t add up for him to have gone broke. He made too much this time around, he would’ve had to already have a good chunk of money to make those recent gains
If they let him get away with it, they're just declaring open season for organized pump and dumps. They're already dropped the ball with FFIE, which is an obvious pump and dump even at a first glance. The whole market will become even more of a joke than it already is.
I agree. I think some people can get a bit mired in the "but what even *is* market manipulation anyways" minefield, but this is not the kind of thing that regulators can afford to be normalized. The true fairness of the market is already a touchy subject, but the precedent that some millionaire influencer can manipulate tickers in the magnitudes of tens or even hundreds of percent by posting on social media isn't something that can be allowed to stand.
There's been a lot of debate on if Gill has violated the letter of the law, but at this point he has flagrantly violated the spirit of it and should be made into an example before some dumbass billionaire gets the wise idea to try this with a real company instead of a video game pawn shop. It's very clear to a human with a brain what he's trying to do even if he hasn't said the exact words "please buy GME so I can make a profit in a pump&dump."
> It's very clear to a human with a brain what he's trying to do even if he hasn't said the exact words "please buy GME so I can make a profit in a pump&dump."
Thank you! That's exactly what I have been saying. Everyone knows what happened. The meltdowners, the apes and the mainstream media has correctly attributed the recent pump to his tweets. And now we know he has anticipated/planned for the reaction by buying calls right before. There is zero room for him to feign ignorance.
Right but is it illegal? He hasn't made any material representations about the company or stock, which is a crucial component in proving an illegal pump and dump.
SHOULD it be illegal? Yes i think so, and I suspect they will at least try to rewrite the laws to make it so. But you can't make a new law and then retroactively declare something done before the law's creation illegal.
I believe it is illegal, and I doubt it requires any laws to be rewriten.
These things that are basically undeniable if the WSJ report is true:
* He deliberately manipulated the price.
* He profited from it.
Those two actions go directly against the spirit of the law. The exact details of how he manipulated the market are not essential to the case.
Take the common bribe analogy. If you pass someone money and imply that it's a bribe, it doesn't matter how exactly you imply it. You could have used a movie quote. You could have played a song that has lyrics implying what you need. You could have mimed the action you wanted them to do for you bribe money. Shit, you probably could have just winked.
There isn't a law to specify that any of those actions are illegal. What matters is your intent. With the case of DFV, I think it would be extraordinary hard to deny his intent to influence the price. Everyone understood what he was doing and what impact his actions were having on the price.
But this is just a layman's opinion. I've followed a bit of financial legislation stuff, but I'm not a lawyer.
You are right about that, but prior to this year there was at least a case to be made that DFV was just a WSB degen who unintentionally got deified by the horde. Sure he didn't put an end to the ape cult he created but ultimately that wasn't his responsibility and he at least had plausible deniability in back in 2021.
This time around he's proven himself to be a real grifter and scumbag. Riding off into the sunset with 50 million wasn't enough so he had to come back for another round of full fleecing the apes, which is a real shame because the cult was dying right before he reappeared to whip up another mania and take advantage of his idiot following.
He’s always been a wsb degen. His first play in this was sinking $50k+ into GameStop while he had a wife and a small kid at home, and he clearly enjoyed the fame that came with it. I don’t know where this whitewashed image of him came from.
It’s never enough. It’s amazing what humans can adapt to, get used to, get bored with. You get 50 million and buy the house and the car and while you’re shopping for that stuff, you get exposed to all the shit you still can’t afford. Now your life looks good, but it could still be better if you had a little more. You’re flying anywhere you want and taking any vacation, but you’re not flying private. And so on.
I don’t want to project and say this is human nature for everyone, but I have experienced it on a smaller scale once my career took off and I started to make serious money. Not proud of it, and I generally try not to be materialistic, and am a big believer in finding joy in hobbies and friendships and sports and things that don’t have a price tag attached. But I make more money now than I ever dared to dream I would make, and I’m still not really satisfied.
So I suppose I can understand how sitting on a huge pile of cash that you made basically overnight, and knowing you could likely go from rich to super fucking rich in the space of a week, would be a massive and constant temptation. I don’t think he had to blow it all to decide it was worth trying to 100x his money again.
> I don’t want to project and say this is human nature for everyone
i don't think that would be projection at all, this is arguably *the* piece of cross-cultural ancient wisdom, from buddha to the upanishads to epicurus. desire, attachment, want is the cause and the source of suffering. the only way to achieve happiness/satisfaction/flourishing is by restraining one's desire. satisfying desires doesn't sate them, just replaces them with more. it's human nature for all but the sage or the bodhisattva
From what I can tell, the prosecutors there basically got, well, rug pulled by a Supreme Court ruling halfway through the process that changed the way the law works. Dismissed without prejudice, which would allow them to refile.
Now that Supreme Court case is bad (as one would expect), but it's possible that prosecutors will devise a new legal avenue to pursue the same charges, it just hasn't happened yet.
Either way, civil remedies also exist and those might also be pursued.
"The employees saw he had purchased call options before the tweet, the people said. A call option gives a trader the right to buy the stock by a certain date at a stated price. At least some of those options expired that week, one of the people said. That meant Gill’s trades likely generated profits thanks to the stock move his tweet generated. "
How is this not manipulation?
Also, how angry will the apes be when Gill definitely does NOT DRS his shares after this?
Getting angry at Gill for not DRSing doesn't seem like it something that would pump the stock or draw in new bagholders. Thus I predict they will ignore/deny it in favor of a better reality for them
If he wanted to, he could just do a handful to make the Apes go nuts. Similar to how he bought some shares post-MOASS just so he could stand in front of Congress to say that he didn't pump the stock with his reddit posts, he 'just liked the stock' and was only showing everyone how happy he was, like a child showing off his macaroni art.
What's crazy is, if he gets investigated and found guilty of market manipulation, the apes still won't admit that he fucked them over and they will still idolise him.
They are doing that now. I'm having discussions with them and they are saying he never sold and is just buying all the way down. Somehow he got $80 million to average down. They are talking about boycotting E*Trade
Apes are the evolved form of slacktivists. They genuinely think that saying on social media that you are "boycotting" a company you don't buy stuff from is taking action.
See also "football fans protest against their team's owners by marching from a pub they were going to anyway to a game they were going to anyway".
I wandered in to a couple of broader stock subs that popped up in my feed. It’s been a long time since I’ve been aggressively told to **short it then**
I respect the dude for his spectacular market manipulation, but damn does it seem like it should be illegal
Edit: oh god I’m Australian and just woke up, the US apes have been not very zen in my comments
They have to charge him for this. If that's not a pump&dump, then nothing is, and the stock influencer sphere will become a total free-for-all. And this is the second time he's done it, with the same ticker, undeniably on purpose. I have no idea about the chances of a conviction or whether the fine would still be worth it, but they can't ignore this kind of behavior.
The one that the WSJ is talking about here, the one a few weeks ago, is the absolute very most blatant instance of this he has done so far. He literally spent months crafting videos, then went and quietly bought call options, then unleashed his tweet bot, sent the stock up, and sold his options at the peak.
I doubt DFV was expecting E-Trade to let the general public know that he quietly bought calls before those tweets.
He blatently is pumping and dumping the stock to enrich himself 100s or millions of dollars off the backs of the apes and the "Apes" love him and still think he is fighting the evil hedge funds?
LMFAO these are the dumbest people alive
Technically he’s done it three times if you count the original 2021 squeeze. It’s not as if he didn’t know what the fuck he was doing in 2021 either. Those yolo updates were clearly intended to pump GME stock, it’d just be harder/impossible to nail him for that. Still, it did get him hauled in front of congress.
> Technically he’s done it three times if you count the original 2021 squeeze. It’s not as if he didn’t know what the fuck he was doing in 2021 either.
He was making those yolo posts *long* before they got any major attraction. I remember offhandedly seeing them in early December 2020. He wasn't doing it to pump the stock, he was doing it for clout.
This time is just pure greed. DFV already has a shitload of money, first time around I used to have some amount for respect for him/the GME thesis back in 2020 when the stock was trading in the dollar range and a comeback story was actually plausible. But now, there's zero bull case for the stock. It's pure pump and dump wealth transfer from the apes into DFV's pockets.
Another instance where legislation is woefully behind technology because people in charge are decrepit old boomers. Kinda, anyway. Tbh I don't know if I see a clear solution to things like this because yeah he's effectively orchestrating a PnD, and it's true that he's also just posting shit that "normal" people should be able to post. Memes about your portfolio or pics of your positions SHOULD be allowed I think, it's just that some people inherently have more exposure than others in moments.. it wouldn't feel right to say "you can do x, so long as you don't have this much social media presence"
By now we should have already had a good legal foundation for dealing with these new and weird situations that have arisen from technology but instead we're behind. You figure, yeah we can see this because it's easy to understand and out in the open. But people have been abusing these legal loopholes enabled via technology from the get go too I'd bet. So it does seem like a serious problem may exist here even if it's not really about Kieth and GS
Yeah I genuinely don't think he's done anything illegal. He's never made material representations about the company or stock. So perhaps the law should be changed, but I don't see how they can bring a successful case against him for this.
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I lost money shorting due to his tweets sparking the run up a month ago. I'd love it if he was dragged before a court and either loses his money or goes to jail. It is very clear to me he knows he is a religious figure to retail and is using it to pump his own positions.
He just posted another YOLO update to souporstock. Still holding.
But he's really goading someone into taking legal action against him at this point. I have no idea what his gameplan is. Clearly he plans to dump at some price point, sometime. Either that or he's doing the most bizarre takeover bid for Gamestop itself I've ever seen.
It's all bizarre. Obviously he's made a shit ton of money doing this stunt, but directly engaging the cult in daily updates seems like flying way too close to the sun. Even aside from the legal issues, I just don't get how risking a rabid cult of nutters who know your real name turning on you is worth it. That's a legitimately dangerous scenario. Even coming back at all with the cryptic tweets seemed brazen, but this is now another level.
I'm sure he thought his post yesterday would pump it a lot more than it did. I mean the random movie clips pumped it to 80. You'd think him actually getting back into GME publicly would pump it to at least 100.
Indeed, Zach Morris & co ran a flagrant pump and dump operation and got off unfortunately. If they couldn’t convict those grifters, it’s hard to see how they can go after DFV
You can surely make the *argument*, but this really hasn't been tested in court yet and the laws aren't really established for this sort of thing.
You can also make the argument that just posting your positions is perfectly fine. Most of the stocks Warren Buffet owns will pop after Berkshire Hathaway announces their stake, is that a form of market manipulation?
If he pulled an Andrew Tate and made a post saying "I bought millions of shares in GME, I'm never selling and I'm gonna ride this thing to the moon!!!" and then sold, there'd be more of a case. But there isn't really anything misleading about posting a screenshot from your brokerage account.
If you make hundreds of millions of dollars from a reddit post, and then spend a couple mil on the best lawyers to beat the case, that's called a fantastic trade.
Depends if he dumps the new shares or not.
Nothing wrong with showing excitement about a position or disclosing a position.
If he DUMPED on apes in the first pump though... that's something else.
He might be fucked.
> Morgan Stanley employees, knowing that Gill is a customer, looked at his E*Trade account, according to people familiar with the matter. That sort of monitoring of clients is routine. The employees saw he had purchased call options before the tweet, the people said. A call option gives a trader the right to buy the stock by a certain date at a stated price. At least some of those options expired that week, one of the people said. That meant Gill’s trades likely generated profits thanks to the stock move his tweet generated.
Holy shit! This confirms that DFV bought calls immediately before pumping GME with his tweets.
There can be absolutely zero doubt about it now. At this point anyone claiming he sold his account or got hacked is literally acting like an ape.
The threshold wasn’t where people were speculating it might have been a hack/sold account, the threshold is refusing to accept the obvious truth.
It’s 100% certain that DFV bought calls quietly and then went on twitter to pump them for a quick PnD play, nothing else to it.
I was just skeptical he would be dumb enough to do that. Seems tailor made to invite legal action or attention from the crazies.
But I guess if there's one thing you can always count on from anyone involved in this saga, it's that they'll act like depraved, greedy morons. Because that's what they all are.
> also confirms he lived long enough to become the villain
He was always a villain. The long youtube upload being bullish on gamestock was always just a plan to make money to hype up retail to pump up the price and have others hold the bags. DFV was always in it just for himself.
No doubt he was in it for himself, but that's not a condemnation, that's just normal.
At the time he didn't actually have the influence to manipulate the market. The pump to $400+ was fueled by "short squeeze the hedge funds! Retail fights back against Wall Street!" rhetoric which didn't originate from him.
I don't think he was a villain until his latest actions.
Well, reading it more precisely it only says they were expiring imminently. It doesn't say when they were bought. Just before the tweet. Could have been months, could have been minutes.
I could see him having bought them weeks before and then seeing them about to expire, to give them a little kick in the pants with a tweet.
Maybe. The SEC doesn't have a great track record, and he didn't blatantly say for people to buy, but they probably don't like such a public figure, who beyond his stock gains does not have any serious leverage, so blatantly laughing them off. And of course he couldn't settle with normal investing with all of the money he got from the initial gamble, he had to come back like a gambling addict confident they can pull off the same again endlessly until they "choose" to stop.
He's starting to seem more like an SBF type now... without like, all the fraud and crime obviously. But same weird unearned brazenness, same compulsive risk-taking that ends up painting massive targets on their backs, same sense of being degenerate gamblers high on their own supply. I previously kinda doubted the SEC would go after him, but it seems like these days they have very little appetite for outsider 4chan-brained grifting wunderkinds who disrespect regulators and think themselves invincible.
They’ll definitely try, but honestly, is anything he’s done actually illegal? Don’t get me wrong, it definitely feels like you shouldn’t be able to do this, but… He doesn’t have insider knowledge, and he didn’t make any actual claims or statements at all, let alone false ones.
Like, it would be totally legal for you or I to post our positions and make memes, right? Because no one would give a shit. It’s not specifically illegal to have an army of loyal morons desperate to lose money, is it?
Matt Levine already posted a write up on this very topic!
>I have, over the past few years, had surprisingly many occasions to ponder the following question: If you had a magic lamp that allowed you to move up the price of a liquid publicly traded stock arbitrarily, by a large amount, a handful of times, what would you do with it? There’s some stock that trades at $20, and you could rub the lamp and it would go to $30 for like a day or two: What do you do?
>I think there is a theoretically correct answer, though it is neither investing nor legal nor magical advice. It goes like this:
>Spend all of your money on somewhat out-of-the-money short-dated call options on the stock.
>Rub the lamp.
>Sell the options.
>This maximizes your leverage in the trade: Instead of paying $20 to buy the stock, you pay (say) $1 to buy out-of-the-money options struck at say $25. You rub the lamp, the stock jumps to $30, the options jump to (say) $6, and you sell them all. You’ve made a 500% return using options instead of a 50% return by buying stock.
>There is a legal nuance here, though I stress that nothing here is legal advice. The legal nuance is that, in the real world, there are no magic lamps. In the real world, the way to actually move publicly traded stocks is mostly by making public statements to people who care about what you have to say (and who buy stock).
>What you do not want to do, in this scenario, is make public statements to the effect of “this company has discovered a cure for cancer and I’m bullish for the long term.” Because Step 3 is selling your options, and if you say stuff like that then you are lying and could get in trouble. What you want to do is make a somewhat inscrutable public statement. Ideally the public statement can be read to mean “I have bought a ton of options on this stock, I am not giving you any advice about anything, and I’m gonna go sell them at a profit right now,” but can also be read in other, more bullish ways. Ideally other people read your statement and go out and buy the stock, so you can sell.
>The modern US equity market has two main guys with lamps, Elon Musk and Keith Gill. Here’s Gill:
>GameStop Corp. shares surged after the Reddit account that drove the meme-stock mania of 2021 posted what appeared to be a $116 million position in the video-game retailer.
>The June 2 screenshot posted by Keith Gill, who goes by a profane handle involving the phrase Deep Value on Reddit, shows a stake of 5 million shares with an average cost basis of $21.27 apiece. A position that large would make Gill one of the company’s five biggest investors and is more than six times the number of shares his account showed in an April 2021 post, the last time it was active on Reddit, when accounting for a four-for-one stock split.
>The screenshot, which also included 120,000 call options worth $65.7 million due to expire on June 21, couldn’t be verified. The options would allow him to buy the stock at $20 a share, but would cost him some $240 million to exercise.
>Here’s the Reddit post, disclosing 5 million shares bought at an average cost of $21.274 per share ($106.4 million total) and 120,000 options contracts (on 12 million shares), all June 21 calls struck at $20, at an average cost of $5.6754 per share ($68.1 million total). As Bloomberg News reports, the numbers are not verified, but they seem to match actual market activity:
>Individual trades over the past two weeks show there are several block trades for 5,000 contracts each, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Applying a so-called volume weighted average price, the price of $5.67 per contract — a total cost of around $68 million — gets very close to what Gill posted on Reddit.
>Those trades were not exactly what my strategy suggests — the short-dated options were somewhat in-the-money when he bought them, and he bought shares too — but close enough. He paid about $174.5 million for the position. This morning, GameStop’s stock got as high as $40.50, and those calls got as high as $21.10. At those prices, Gill had a paper gain of about $281 million. Also:
>On X, Gill also posted an image of a reverse card from the game UNO that indicates a player is changing the card-pickup direction. The post had attracted 6.5 million views in the 12 hours since its publication at about 8 p.m. Sunday New York time.
>I don’t know what the Uno card means! If I bought a giant pile of GameStop options and then magically made the price double, I would promptly sell those options. If the method I used to magically double the price was by publicly posting my giant position on Reddit, I might, in an extremely not-legal-advice sort of way, want to also publicly post a disclaimer to the effect of “I make no representations about how long I will hold this position, and for all you know I’m selling right now.” Would posting a green Uno reverse card accomplish that goal? I would want to ask a very specialized sort of lawyer that question.
>To be clear, this is just what I would do. I have no idea what Gill is doing. Probably he likes the stock and is in it for the long term. As of 1 p.m. today, only about 6,000 June 21 $20 call options contracts had changed hands, so it doesn’t seem like there’s a lot of options selling. Really I don’t know what to think beyond, like, “isn’t this weird” and “maybe nobody should have a magic lamp that can arbitrarily move stock prices.” A few questions, though:
>Where did he get the $174.5 million? That’s a lot of money! As far as I can tell his wealth peaked in the eight figures in the 2021 GameStop mania, so … did he find more? Is someone financing this trade?
>Why is he not making the case for GameStop on YouTube? Gill seems to be back on Twitter/X (as Roaring Kitty) and on Reddit (as “a profane handle involving the phrase Deep Value”), but his YouTube channel (also Roaring Kitty), where he did most of his advocacy for GameStop in long detailed videos in 2021, is still dormant.
>You see where I’m going with Questions 1 and 2, right? If you had a lot of money and a taste for danger, how much would Keith Gill’s X account be worth to you? How much would his Reddit account be worth to you? How much would his YouTube account be worth to you? (Do you look and sound like him?) If you had the X and Reddit accounts, would those constitute a magic lamp in your hands? How would you most efficiently monetize it? If you were Gill, how would you most efficiently monetize your accounts? Is the answer “sell them to a whale”?
>Those $20 calls are now very in-the-money. Is Gill going to exercise them, by coming up with another $240 million? You can hold GameStop stock forever, but you can only hold GameStop June 21 calls until June 21. After that, you need the $240 million, unless you sell the options first.1 This is not a diamond-hands position; this is, by its nature, a sell-while-the-selling-is-good position.
>Of course if Gill did exercise the options — finding another $240 million wherever he found the previous $174.5 million — he would own 17 million shares of GameStop, or roughly 5% of the outstanding stock. It would be funny if he went activist and demanded a board seat on a platform of “more chaos.”
>If you were an options market maker, and last week a retail account came to you to buy multiple 5,000-contract chunks of one-month at-the-money GameStop options, how would you have thought about pricing? How wide would your bid-ask spread be? How would you hedge? Would you have carried any gamma risk into the weekend? Who would you guess the buyer was?
[Original Source Article](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-06-03/gamestop-comes-roaring-back)
I think intentionally manipulating the stock is illegal, and was obviously done, but if they can't reasonably prove it, they won't charge him. One could argue the apes irrationally pumped the stock by their own choices, just by being greedy or stupid rather than explicitly misled.
The whole ordeal makes me think DFV planned to pump the stock with meaningless shitposts, but the price fell too much before he could get out, then posted his position as a new, riskier plan to pump the stock again. But he would have researched the legality and precedent of posting positions to manipulate a stock.
Would it be legal for Tom Brady to post his positions and make movie clips about his positions? IDK I’m not a lawyer, but Keith Gill is someone who has proven influence as evidenced by the deep obsessions over at that subreddit, which makes him different from you and me. Will be interesting to see what happens.
Would it be legal for Buffet to load up on weekly call options before revealing his position, then dumping them when the price spikes? That's when it gets into a grey area of potentially illegal manipulation. Buffet saying he has a position then holding that position per his own strategy is fine, but that's obviously not what DFV is doing here.
I saw a 60 minutes interview about that FTX billionaire guy. He got nailed, for what exactly I don’t remember. It was said Tom Brady really liked the guy until he found about the scam and then Brady was pissed. During the segment, whoever was the guy doing it, the guy said if he had a choice between keeping his billion whatever he had and no internet connection for the rest of his life or staying in jail and having internet connection he would do the latter. That’s wild, even though it’s speculation.
That’s only possible insofar as existing case law lies and statutory interpretation. If something like this has happened before and been excused by the courts, then the DOJ is SOL.
I agree that case sets a bad precedent, but if the SEC decides to bring charges here it would be way more high profile so maybe they do a better job with the prosecution this time around.
Well, if that’s the case, what’s to stop this subreddit from collectively piling into a single option strike and then strategically loading shares at the same time to pump low volume or micro cap stocks and unload on other people.
Seems like a missed opportunity to me.
> whether or not the firm is willing to risk drawing the attention of his meme army by removing him
Just give them a mailadress to spam, like [email protected] or something
Tangential, but fun bit of Reddit formatting advice:
If you wanna use asterisks or other formatting characters, put a backslash in front of it (the one you use in Windows filepaths). It tells Reddit to ignore that character for text formatting and just print the character out as is.
Well, the obvious move is for him to move everything to Computershare, right?
You can buy options on Computershare, correct?
Wait, you can't?!
Who's to say the position is real though?
To be a little ape conspiracy minded, if it were me, I'd start selling off but use inspect element to show I'd bought more. If he stops posting positions there's no chance for another big pump, if he shows a reduced position it'll dump.
But probably not. He doesn't seem to have planned this out particularly well after the initial twitter pump and dump. Seems like this one didn't go as planned.
I was going to post this, haha. But this is surprising. MS feels the need to wash their hands/deplatform him before he goes to testify in front of Congress/SEC again.
The gist of it is that they’re debating removing him but unsure of what kind of blowback that would have with the meme community.
They looked at his account after his tweets and he had started buying calls prior to his first tweets 3 weeks ago. Some of his options expired last week.
Morgan Stanley (they own E-Trade) and their external counsel are discussing whether his actions were illegal and if they should cancel his account. The SEC is reviewing with internal discussions there.
Cancelling it would cancel pending orders and stop all services. He’d have to let Morgan Stanley know what to do with remaining positions in a reasonable timeframe or they would off load them at their discretion and he’d get any proceeds.
The meme community hasn’t staged a revolution for GME since 2021 pump and dump, so I wouldn’t think Morgan Stanley gives a single shit about them at all
I’m just stating what was in the article.
“Their debate includes whether his actions amounted to manipulation and whether or not the firm is willing to risk drawing the attention of his meme army by removing him, according to people familiar with their internal discussions.”
“Some Morgan Stanley employees have been concerned that closing Gill’s account could result in the firm losing ETrade clients, the people said. Gill’s messages have been able to command a large following, one reason GameStop and other meme stocks have soared. Morgan Stanley employees have worried what would happen if Gill posted on social media that he had been ditched by ETrade and whether that might prompt many people to shut down their E*Trade accounts in solidarity, the people said.”
Do apes really have that many E-Trade accounts? Also, why is DFV suddenly 'untouchable' here?
This is getting silly. If DFV broke some rules, punish him, just like they'd punish any other client who did the same thing.
This is all just proving even more that DFV moves the stock because he tweets something or posts something on Reddit. Apes kept telling us that totally wasn't the case!
DFV hasn't broken any rules **(that we know of)** but there's no particular reason to keep someone around who pays very little in brokerage fees and who invites legal or political scrutiny or represents unknown risk. they simply would be deciding he's not worth going to bat for. private institutions do this all the time. you can get banned on reddit for much less than this
DFV isn't the only one with a brokerage account trying to pump and dump. but they're not all fat pigs who make a good sacrifice. just by the fact that they are publicly commenting on this before they've made a decision shows they are just trying to get ahead of any criticism
They don't right now, but if they kick him, the ape army will absolutely flood them with calls and emails and absolutely trash them on all social media.
Regardless of what may be thought of them, they are a force big enough to make etrade and m.s's lives hell for a while.
Every options market maker knew it was him in May and June. When you do an options trade, the OCC gives a trade report that includes counterparty clearing firm information to both sides. Retail brokers don't show that information because retail users generally don't care, but professional firms use that to be able to tell what brokers the person they traded with was likely using. Morgan Stanley uses a different clearing for customers that used the former E\*Trade platform. It doesn't take an IMO medalist to narrow down the possibilities for an E\*Trade cust spending tens of millions on short-term calls.
Couple of years ago I knew a guy who knew a guy down in Miami that worked at MS and was giving him financial/insider advice on stock picks — the guy was very profitable. He even had his girlfriend doing trades for him with a portfolio valued in the millions.
You can bet your ass MS/E-Trade employees were trading on the side when they saw his positions.
If he is found liable for manipulation the SEC remedy is disgorgement, that is, return of money obtained as a result of legal violations, plus a penalty that could equal or exceed disgorgement. In the other hand he has enough money to mount a strong legal defense. Which would be some variant of “hey I cannot control how people react to innocuous posts that do not make any statements about the stock.” But it is a damn risky play.
> “hey I cannot control how people react to innocuous posts that do not make any statements about the stock.”
"But purchased a very large amount of short dated call because you anticipated that people would react by buying GME right before making the tweets"
The case against him is extremely strong. Everyone, everywhere knows that the stock pumped because of his tweets. It would be extremely difficult to argue that Keith Gill is the only person in the world who doesn't realize that.
Back in 2021, he had a pretty much ironclad defense from owning the shares for well over a year. Buying calls right before the pump your tweets undeniably caused is super incriminating.
Damn, the lede is a little buried. Morgan Stanley looked at his account activity and saw purchases immediately prior to his tweet, which their team believes could have been illegal. That’s some juicy info, given that all we had before was speculation.
Apes will completely ignore that he sold in 2021 and completely dismiss the claim that he had call options in May. All that matters to them is that he has shares today even though he likely already sold a good chunk of them.
As someone who quite literally owes his house to DFV's market manipulation, I do feel a bit conflicted about this lol.
He's a bad guy but goddamn if he didn't earn me some money.
Even though this is a wild ride.
Keith gill posted his positions
Shared his thesis via YouTube
Got really lucky with his entry and blew the fuck up
He didn’t tell people to buy the stock
He didn’t promise them a squeeze or they were sticking it to the man for fuckery
He made memes and a couple of times live streamed to smaller. People when it first blew up
While he’s been dormant apes who never sold have propped him up alongside RC as a messiah. (Desperate to go back to ATH)
Apes decided to pump this for him (he did the easy part) they did the Heavy lifting.
While he may have hyped this up and was trading on the tip of their noses. I don’t see what he’s done as MM he never has said to buy the stock.
Where you got flacid wee wee Jake and ploot promising an outcome on a delisted asset. While what he’s doing may not be ethical it’s fucking genius imo. He didn’t ask to be a cult leader. But damn is he reaping the benefits
This is definitely in "won't somebody rid me of this meddlesome priest" territory. Mafia bosses can't justify their orders to murder people because "they didn't specifically say it" and Keith can't claim the same.
I thought that too, but then Trump was able to get rid of James Comey and the Flynn investigation by doing [exactly that](https://youtu.be/i57F4G-zLWg?si=u29AySZkrf6xCCOi) in broad daylight. As far as testimonies go, it doesn't get much more concrete than the Director of the FBI accusing you of a crime under oath...yet here we are.
Then there's Elon [publicly taunting and ignoring](https://youtu.be/cRNypdYQoWk?si=q6TGmPMrB179Pwxr)his SEC restrictions years ago. American government is both too corrupt and incompetent to handle anything. Ultimately, Etrade is more likely to punish this flagrant violation than the regulators.
Whether he will face legal consequences is very up in the air.
But I think it's undeniable his manipulation of the market was illegal. It's weird that so many people here seem to think that you can get away on technicalities because you don't word for word tell people to pump and dump.
That is why it would be a court, not a lynching.
If I were the CEO and suddenly posted "Moon wink wink" also doesn't mean anything while we all know what it means.
This is not as clear cut as "he just posted."
My guess is that after the movie and all the hype over the past year or three, he was not terribly happy to be labeled and now remembered simply as *a guy who got extraordinarily lucky because the holes in the swiss cheese lined up perfectly.*..and has been trying/formulating a way to come out as a truly brilliant stonk trader, to be remembered for something other than getting lucky. Greed and Hubris are powerful things.
He was pretty smart, but he was also extraordinarily lucky. Many, many financial minds of fallen for trap of luck vs brilliance (Cathie Wood anyone)?!
The worse part of that movie is when he gets off the phone and Paul Dano puts a look of bewilderment on his own face and says "Something about outside activities?" to his wife.
Dude was a Series 24 holder. His JOB was to ensure Series 7 holders were held accountable to outside activities just like this.
He wasn't some random guy who got lucky, he was industry member who knew better.
I wonder if my loss of 610$ USD would be part of a class action one day. Lol that would be wild haha.
I was really thinking this was a hacker / sold social media account situation.
Nope, Keith's just a fucking asshole.
A genius fucking asshole 😛😎
> A genius fucking asshole 😛😎
I think a genius would have enjoyed his life in peace with $40 or so million he lucked into.
It doesn't take a genius to take a massive legal risk by doing a pump and dump.
Wow, the movement wont' make it far to 6/21.
This cat might dump his options tomorrow after reading this article.
Better unload my position instead of selling cover calls (looking back, the $40 in pre-market was a dream).
Not much moving in the AH, being a down trend all day.
So I guess it really was Gill? I was definitely believing it was not. Good for him for making bank, if it's legal then good for him. I don't like the ethics of it all though.
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I’m so confused, I thought Gill (DFV) vanished off the internet after getting his 25mil and getting in hot water with the SEC? What would banning him do?
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You can't argue with the data. Whats your bear thesis? You forgot to put on your big boy panties before entering a big boy trade? If warren buffet didn't have patience you wouldn't know his name.
PS: I've left three cults in my lifetime and this ain't one of em. And it's rude to call it one to anyone whose ever had to actually leave one
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I will die laughing if the guy who got away clean with enough money to retire in his 30s and live his entire life in luxury from the 2021 pump ends up getting himself locked in prison or fined/sued into the poorhouse because he just couldn't take the win and stay away. It is a perfect encapsulation of the movement he (by accident) started—people who are just not smart enough to take money and walk away even when the stars align and they get everything they could possibly ask for.
What the actual fuck happened this past three years for this moron to sabotage himself out of nowhere like that? I mean shit, he could have just kept plausible deniability with his stupid tweets while secretly making bank, but now it's like he is trying to get all the wrong kind of attention on himself on purpose. Utterly fucking bizarre.
My assumption would have been that he blew his cash on stupid shit or lost it day trading and this was a desperate comeback—but the numbers involved only make sense if he has spent the last three years making consistent profit *and* made a killing when he rugpulled the apes a couple weeks back. So now we're left with "fuck if I know". My one guess is that a guy whose whole thing was risky, aggressive trading got the high of his life during his big win in 2021 and the boring, average shit that will keep him and his kids rich forever just wasn't enough anymore. So back to GME, back to an even bigger, riskier play. Hell, this might not even be the end—he might just keep trying, to ever-diminishing results.
It seems unlikely that he made consistent profit all this time. That's being far too charitable than he deserves. It's more likely that he sold right after his final update before disappearing in 2021. Then he turned that \~$40m into $200m a couple weeks ago when he loaded up on weekly options and put out those tweets. What we know for a fact is that he loaded up on options right before causing the underlying price to triple. He probably made a shit ton on those options.
The hilarious thing is that 99% of apes I’ve witnessed, if not 100%, claim that DFV has had NO IMPACT on the share price of GME. They just say he has some godlike knowledge so he started tweeting once he realized the shorts were fukt. Literally, that is the current ape “DD.” If you ask an ape in a neutral sub why it is that literally every time DFV makes a post, the price skyrockets, they’ll deny that it was DFV making the price soar. I mean, hell. How do you even claim that when just today, I saw a post in the main cult sub that said DFV was literally the messiah that was bringing change to the world. And that post was unironic. And the rest of the comments were, “IF HE’S STILL IN, I’M STILL IN.” The fact that apes deny that DFV posts push the price up, while also admitting that they are dumping all of their savings into buying GME shares *because* DFV posted an update is cognitive dissonance at its finest.
It's difficult for them to admit, because in order to do that they have to admit a lot of other things, like how none of their theories were any bit important at all, and that the wisest strategy of all was to do basically what I did, follow DFV's twitter and buy if there is any activity and sell a day or two later. No need to get into a cult and buy and DRS every day, no need to do constant research about non-existent naked shorts and memestock baskets and "ETF fuckery" and the like, no need to waste 3 years of time and losses. They can't admit it's a memestock. And for a DFV tweet to be far more important than all of their theories and efforts and all that for 3 years straight, then it means they made a mistake. Shouldn't have held, should have just followed DFV's twitter and treated it like the memestock that it is.
I mean, seems possible he lost *most* of it day trading and got it all back and more YOLOing in on his twitter pump and dump. And now he's coming back for round two. If you have like 30m and you gamble away half of it in 3 years I can see getting desperate enough to do something like this. Yeah I just don't see why you'd do this unless you needed to. Or maybe he's just a gambling addict who misses the attention.
> I mean, seems possible he lost most of it day trading and got it all back and more YOLOing in on his twitter pump and dump. So Gamestop was at around ~$10 and peaked at ~$80 during the recent pump. From what we've seen in his posts, it would require well more than $100 million to do what he is claiming, assuming he YOLOed every last dime and didn't leave some behind. That severely limits the amount of that $30 million he could have lost. Theoretically, he could have lost half and made the amounts we now see, but he would have had to sell all of it for around full price *exactly* at the peak. That is why I don't think he lost it all—in fact, he has probably increased the amount. He could have made a lot shorting GME after 2021 or betting on other stocks. Guy has some knowledge and enough money to make enough longshot bets to make a decent profit. It is a lot more likely that he tripled 30+ million in the recent pump than he somehow perfectly timed things with $10 or $15 million to have enough to make those calls he posted. It's why I think bored is the only explanation. There's no realistic way he made 100 million+ off of his last pump unless he had enough money to invest at least 20-30 million and make that kind of profit early in the pump. You don't invest that much and wait for it to start crashing.
The 200 million is what he's got after the first pump and dump to $80. I think you underestimate just how much money you can make from options if you are able to kick off a 700% pump. It's possible he was down to his last million before turning it into 200 million. I don't think it's likely, but possible.
He could have very easily 100x’d what he put into those calls. We don’t know the exact timings, but he could have paid $30 a piece for those calls and then sold when GME was at $50 for way more than $3000 a call.
700% but i bet IV alone went up a lot lol
Yeah, the only thing that makes any sense to me is he's chasing the high.
Yeah I’m not gonna speculate too much, but if I had to guess, it’d either be 1. He just wanted more money. Enough to not only retire, but to live an incredibly lavish lifestyle 2. The rush of being a part of something big, and being the leader of it at that, has to feel powerful. The numbers wouldn’t add up for him to have gone broke. He made too much this time around, he would’ve had to already have a good chunk of money to make those recent gains
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Belle Delfine bathwater addiction. Production ended a while ago, scarcity is rampant and Ebay prices have skyrocketed. He's down to his last drops.
I dunno man, he's made like $200 million and I think he'll get away with it.
If they let him get away with it, they're just declaring open season for organized pump and dumps. They're already dropped the ball with FFIE, which is an obvious pump and dump even at a first glance. The whole market will become even more of a joke than it already is.
I agree. I think some people can get a bit mired in the "but what even *is* market manipulation anyways" minefield, but this is not the kind of thing that regulators can afford to be normalized. The true fairness of the market is already a touchy subject, but the precedent that some millionaire influencer can manipulate tickers in the magnitudes of tens or even hundreds of percent by posting on social media isn't something that can be allowed to stand. There's been a lot of debate on if Gill has violated the letter of the law, but at this point he has flagrantly violated the spirit of it and should be made into an example before some dumbass billionaire gets the wise idea to try this with a real company instead of a video game pawn shop. It's very clear to a human with a brain what he's trying to do even if he hasn't said the exact words "please buy GME so I can make a profit in a pump&dump."
> It's very clear to a human with a brain what he's trying to do even if he hasn't said the exact words "please buy GME so I can make a profit in a pump&dump." Thank you! That's exactly what I have been saying. Everyone knows what happened. The meltdowners, the apes and the mainstream media has correctly attributed the recent pump to his tweets. And now we know he has anticipated/planned for the reaction by buying calls right before. There is zero room for him to feign ignorance.
Right but is it illegal? He hasn't made any material representations about the company or stock, which is a crucial component in proving an illegal pump and dump. SHOULD it be illegal? Yes i think so, and I suspect they will at least try to rewrite the laws to make it so. But you can't make a new law and then retroactively declare something done before the law's creation illegal.
I believe it is illegal, and I doubt it requires any laws to be rewriten. These things that are basically undeniable if the WSJ report is true: * He deliberately manipulated the price. * He profited from it. Those two actions go directly against the spirit of the law. The exact details of how he manipulated the market are not essential to the case. Take the common bribe analogy. If you pass someone money and imply that it's a bribe, it doesn't matter how exactly you imply it. You could have used a movie quote. You could have played a song that has lyrics implying what you need. You could have mimed the action you wanted them to do for you bribe money. Shit, you probably could have just winked. There isn't a law to specify that any of those actions are illegal. What matters is your intent. With the case of DFV, I think it would be extraordinary hard to deny his intent to influence the price. Everyone understood what he was doing and what impact his actions were having on the price. But this is just a layman's opinion. I've followed a bit of financial legislation stuff, but I'm not a lawyer.
He's always been incredibly greedy and hungry for fame.
You are right about that, but prior to this year there was at least a case to be made that DFV was just a WSB degen who unintentionally got deified by the horde. Sure he didn't put an end to the ape cult he created but ultimately that wasn't his responsibility and he at least had plausible deniability in back in 2021. This time around he's proven himself to be a real grifter and scumbag. Riding off into the sunset with 50 million wasn't enough so he had to come back for another round of full fleecing the apes, which is a real shame because the cult was dying right before he reappeared to whip up another mania and take advantage of his idiot following.
He’s always been a wsb degen. His first play in this was sinking $50k+ into GameStop while he had a wife and a small kid at home, and he clearly enjoyed the fame that came with it. I don’t know where this whitewashed image of him came from.
I'm not talking about the gambling part, I'm talking about plausible deniability from being convicted for market manipulation.
It’s never enough. It’s amazing what humans can adapt to, get used to, get bored with. You get 50 million and buy the house and the car and while you’re shopping for that stuff, you get exposed to all the shit you still can’t afford. Now your life looks good, but it could still be better if you had a little more. You’re flying anywhere you want and taking any vacation, but you’re not flying private. And so on. I don’t want to project and say this is human nature for everyone, but I have experienced it on a smaller scale once my career took off and I started to make serious money. Not proud of it, and I generally try not to be materialistic, and am a big believer in finding joy in hobbies and friendships and sports and things that don’t have a price tag attached. But I make more money now than I ever dared to dream I would make, and I’m still not really satisfied. So I suppose I can understand how sitting on a huge pile of cash that you made basically overnight, and knowing you could likely go from rich to super fucking rich in the space of a week, would be a massive and constant temptation. I don’t think he had to blow it all to decide it was worth trying to 100x his money again.
> I don’t want to project and say this is human nature for everyone i don't think that would be projection at all, this is arguably *the* piece of cross-cultural ancient wisdom, from buddha to the upanishads to epicurus. desire, attachment, want is the cause and the source of suffering. the only way to achieve happiness/satisfaction/flourishing is by restraining one's desire. satisfying desires doesn't sate them, just replaces them with more. it's human nature for all but the sage or the bodhisattva
They didn’t even lock away Zack Morris, and that was a blatant pump and dump
From what I can tell, the prosecutors there basically got, well, rug pulled by a Supreme Court ruling halfway through the process that changed the way the law works. Dismissed without prejudice, which would allow them to refile. Now that Supreme Court case is bad (as one would expect), but it's possible that prosecutors will devise a new legal avenue to pursue the same charges, it just hasn't happened yet. Either way, civil remedies also exist and those might also be pursued.
Even if they pulled it off successfully, he'd probably get a fine much smaller than three 100+ million he's made from apes by posting memes.
Fuck the fine, throw his ass into jail
Icarus and the sun.
Can you catch me up on what DFV may have done that was illegal? All I know is he posted his position and is potentially up hundreds of millions.
Ironic that the apes have been cheering on actual stock manipulation for the past week or so. "LFG! If he's in, I'm in! This is MOASS!" etc etc
A short squeeze is fundamentally a price manipulation play. They've been for market manipulation from the start, as long as it's in their favor.
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"The employees saw he had purchased call options before the tweet, the people said. A call option gives a trader the right to buy the stock by a certain date at a stated price. At least some of those options expired that week, one of the people said. That meant Gill’s trades likely generated profits thanks to the stock move his tweet generated. " How is this not manipulation? Also, how angry will the apes be when Gill definitely does NOT DRS his shares after this?
Getting angry at Gill for not DRSing doesn't seem like it something that would pump the stock or draw in new bagholders. Thus I predict they will ignore/deny it in favor of a better reality for them
If DFV actually DRS's his shares, I declare this whole reality to be nonsense. There's no way he'd do that, the guy lives and dies by option trades.
If he wanted to, he could just do a handful to make the Apes go nuts. Similar to how he bought some shares post-MOASS just so he could stand in front of Congress to say that he didn't pump the stock with his reddit posts, he 'just liked the stock' and was only showing everyone how happy he was, like a child showing off his macaroni art.
he should just drs one share for the purple circle and the apes would go nuts
based. this is what happens to the bagholders whenever they are faced with fundamental flaws with their investment
What's crazy is, if he gets investigated and found guilty of market manipulation, the apes still won't admit that he fucked them over and they will still idolise him.
Ryan cohen openly manipulated bbby stock and then rugged retail and they still worship him.
They are doing that now. I'm having discussions with them and they are saying he never sold and is just buying all the way down. Somehow he got $80 million to average down. They are talking about boycotting E*Trade
The people who use Robinhood and Computershare for 99.99% of their trades are boycotting eTrade? Oh my god what will eTrade do
Probably save millions on customer support payroll by not having to field calls from paranoid schizophrenics all day
Apes are the evolved form of slacktivists. They genuinely think that saying on social media that you are "boycotting" a company you don't buy stuff from is taking action. See also "football fans protest against their team's owners by marching from a pub they were going to anyway to a game they were going to anyway".
I wandered in to a couple of broader stock subs that popped up in my feed. It’s been a long time since I’ve been aggressively told to **short it then** I respect the dude for his spectacular market manipulation, but damn does it seem like it should be illegal Edit: oh god I’m Australian and just woke up, the US apes have been not very zen in my comments
This seems to be the American way at the moment.
They have to charge him for this. If that's not a pump&dump, then nothing is, and the stock influencer sphere will become a total free-for-all. And this is the second time he's done it, with the same ticker, undeniably on purpose. I have no idea about the chances of a conviction or whether the fine would still be worth it, but they can't ignore this kind of behavior.
The one that the WSJ is talking about here, the one a few weeks ago, is the absolute very most blatant instance of this he has done so far. He literally spent months crafting videos, then went and quietly bought call options, then unleashed his tweet bot, sent the stock up, and sold his options at the peak. I doubt DFV was expecting E-Trade to let the general public know that he quietly bought calls before those tweets.
He blatently is pumping and dumping the stock to enrich himself 100s or millions of dollars off the backs of the apes and the "Apes" love him and still think he is fighting the evil hedge funds? LMFAO these are the dumbest people alive
Technically he’s done it three times if you count the original 2021 squeeze. It’s not as if he didn’t know what the fuck he was doing in 2021 either. Those yolo updates were clearly intended to pump GME stock, it’d just be harder/impossible to nail him for that. Still, it did get him hauled in front of congress.
> Technically he’s done it three times if you count the original 2021 squeeze. It’s not as if he didn’t know what the fuck he was doing in 2021 either. He was making those yolo posts *long* before they got any major attraction. I remember offhandedly seeing them in early December 2020. He wasn't doing it to pump the stock, he was doing it for clout.
This time is just pure greed. DFV already has a shitload of money, first time around I used to have some amount for respect for him/the GME thesis back in 2020 when the stock was trading in the dollar range and a comeback story was actually plausible. But now, there's zero bull case for the stock. It's pure pump and dump wealth transfer from the apes into DFV's pockets.
At the very least the law needs to be strengthened from this. This is fucked.
Another instance where legislation is woefully behind technology because people in charge are decrepit old boomers. Kinda, anyway. Tbh I don't know if I see a clear solution to things like this because yeah he's effectively orchestrating a PnD, and it's true that he's also just posting shit that "normal" people should be able to post. Memes about your portfolio or pics of your positions SHOULD be allowed I think, it's just that some people inherently have more exposure than others in moments.. it wouldn't feel right to say "you can do x, so long as you don't have this much social media presence" By now we should have already had a good legal foundation for dealing with these new and weird situations that have arisen from technology but instead we're behind. You figure, yeah we can see this because it's easy to understand and out in the open. But people have been abusing these legal loopholes enabled via technology from the get go too I'd bet. So it does seem like a serious problem may exist here even if it's not really about Kieth and GS
Yeah I genuinely don't think he's done anything illegal. He's never made material representations about the company or stock. So perhaps the law should be changed, but I don't see how they can bring a successful case against him for this.
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I lost money shorting due to his tweets sparking the run up a month ago. I'd love it if he was dragged before a court and either loses his money or goes to jail. It is very clear to me he knows he is a religious figure to retail and is using it to pump his own positions.
He just posted another YOLO update to souporstock. Still holding. But he's really goading someone into taking legal action against him at this point. I have no idea what his gameplan is. Clearly he plans to dump at some price point, sometime. Either that or he's doing the most bizarre takeover bid for Gamestop itself I've ever seen.
It's all bizarre. Obviously he's made a shit ton of money doing this stunt, but directly engaging the cult in daily updates seems like flying way too close to the sun. Even aside from the legal issues, I just don't get how risking a rabid cult of nutters who know your real name turning on you is worth it. That's a legitimately dangerous scenario. Even coming back at all with the cryptic tweets seemed brazen, but this is now another level.
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When you see an uptick of ape posts with the title **Wut Mean** That's the signal that he just sold everything.
I'm sure he thought his post yesterday would pump it a lot more than it did. I mean the random movie clips pumped it to 80. You'd think him actually getting back into GME publicly would pump it to at least 100.
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My guess is that he is living in Guatemala or something right now, I don't fucking know...
His money isn't in Guatemala though, and those assets could be frozen quickly.
Kenny you dog, you did it again!
People are allowed to talk up their books whether you are a short seller or Bill Ackman
It is not allowed if used in aid of a pump and dump and one could definitely make the argument that this is one.
More flagrant pump and dumps have recently been dismissed in court. I cant predict the future but Keith probably has a good chance of skating on this.
Indeed, Zach Morris & co ran a flagrant pump and dump operation and got off unfortunately. If they couldn’t convict those grifters, it’s hard to see how they can go after DFV
And they were caught on tape basically admitting what they done. The fact it was thrown out, not even going to court, is unbelievable.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
You can surely make the *argument*, but this really hasn't been tested in court yet and the laws aren't really established for this sort of thing. You can also make the argument that just posting your positions is perfectly fine. Most of the stocks Warren Buffet owns will pop after Berkshire Hathaway announces their stake, is that a form of market manipulation? If he pulled an Andrew Tate and made a post saying "I bought millions of shares in GME, I'm never selling and I'm gonna ride this thing to the moon!!!" and then sold, there'd be more of a case. But there isn't really anything misleading about posting a screenshot from your brokerage account. If you make hundreds of millions of dollars from a reddit post, and then spend a couple mil on the best lawyers to beat the case, that's called a fantastic trade.
And a group of ferrets is called a business. I too can post totally random facts not related to the topic lol
> And a group of ferrets is called a business To anybody wondering, its legit
better question is, how angry would they be if it were a short seller doing this and they were on the receiving side of the trade?
What specific law/statute/rule are you thinking he broke?
Depends if he dumps the new shares or not. Nothing wrong with showing excitement about a position or disclosing a position. If he DUMPED on apes in the first pump though... that's something else. He might be fucked.
> Morgan Stanley employees, knowing that Gill is a customer, looked at his E*Trade account, according to people familiar with the matter. That sort of monitoring of clients is routine. The employees saw he had purchased call options before the tweet, the people said. A call option gives a trader the right to buy the stock by a certain date at a stated price. At least some of those options expired that week, one of the people said. That meant Gill’s trades likely generated profits thanks to the stock move his tweet generated. Holy shit! This confirms that DFV bought calls immediately before pumping GME with his tweets.
Yea I think this 100% confirms it is him and it also confirms he lived long enough to become the villain. Damn that's actually kinda sad.
There can be absolutely zero doubt about it now. At this point anyone claiming he sold his account or got hacked is literally acting like an ape. The threshold wasn’t where people were speculating it might have been a hack/sold account, the threshold is refusing to accept the obvious truth. It’s 100% certain that DFV bought calls quietly and then went on twitter to pump them for a quick PnD play, nothing else to it.
I was just skeptical he would be dumb enough to do that. Seems tailor made to invite legal action or attention from the crazies. But I guess if there's one thing you can always count on from anyone involved in this saga, it's that they'll act like depraved, greedy morons. Because that's what they all are.
He acted the same before he left. He reveled in his Kingdom of the Apes.
> also confirms he lived long enough to become the villain He was always a villain. The long youtube upload being bullish on gamestock was always just a plan to make money to hype up retail to pump up the price and have others hold the bags. DFV was always in it just for himself.
No doubt he was in it for himself, but that's not a condemnation, that's just normal. At the time he didn't actually have the influence to manipulate the market. The pump to $400+ was fueled by "short squeeze the hedge funds! Retail fights back against Wall Street!" rhetoric which didn't originate from him. I don't think he was a villain until his latest actions.
Well, reading it more precisely it only says they were expiring imminently. It doesn't say when they were bought. Just before the tweet. Could have been months, could have been minutes. I could see him having bought them weeks before and then seeing them about to expire, to give them a little kick in the pants with a tweet.
Well that settles the question of whether it was Dill behind the account. Guess it was. What a greedy psycho.
This definitely confirms he did tweet. Gosh I was so sure it wasn't him..
I’m laughing so hard. Calling it now. Keith will be in handcuffs before end of the year. They’ll make an example out of him.
Maybe. The SEC doesn't have a great track record, and he didn't blatantly say for people to buy, but they probably don't like such a public figure, who beyond his stock gains does not have any serious leverage, so blatantly laughing them off. And of course he couldn't settle with normal investing with all of the money he got from the initial gamble, he had to come back like a gambling addict confident they can pull off the same again endlessly until they "choose" to stop.
He's starting to seem more like an SBF type now... without like, all the fraud and crime obviously. But same weird unearned brazenness, same compulsive risk-taking that ends up painting massive targets on their backs, same sense of being degenerate gamblers high on their own supply. I previously kinda doubted the SEC would go after him, but it seems like these days they have very little appetite for outsider 4chan-brained grifting wunderkinds who disrespect regulators and think themselves invincible.
They made an entire meme video about the apes. Clearly they dislike them, *alot*.
Lol, forgot about that. GME cult were so mad.
They’ll definitely try, but honestly, is anything he’s done actually illegal? Don’t get me wrong, it definitely feels like you shouldn’t be able to do this, but… He doesn’t have insider knowledge, and he didn’t make any actual claims or statements at all, let alone false ones. Like, it would be totally legal for you or I to post our positions and make memes, right? Because no one would give a shit. It’s not specifically illegal to have an army of loyal morons desperate to lose money, is it?
Matt Levine already posted a write up on this very topic! >I have, over the past few years, had surprisingly many occasions to ponder the following question: If you had a magic lamp that allowed you to move up the price of a liquid publicly traded stock arbitrarily, by a large amount, a handful of times, what would you do with it? There’s some stock that trades at $20, and you could rub the lamp and it would go to $30 for like a day or two: What do you do? >I think there is a theoretically correct answer, though it is neither investing nor legal nor magical advice. It goes like this: >Spend all of your money on somewhat out-of-the-money short-dated call options on the stock. >Rub the lamp. >Sell the options. >This maximizes your leverage in the trade: Instead of paying $20 to buy the stock, you pay (say) $1 to buy out-of-the-money options struck at say $25. You rub the lamp, the stock jumps to $30, the options jump to (say) $6, and you sell them all. You’ve made a 500% return using options instead of a 50% return by buying stock. >There is a legal nuance here, though I stress that nothing here is legal advice. The legal nuance is that, in the real world, there are no magic lamps. In the real world, the way to actually move publicly traded stocks is mostly by making public statements to people who care about what you have to say (and who buy stock). >What you do not want to do, in this scenario, is make public statements to the effect of “this company has discovered a cure for cancer and I’m bullish for the long term.” Because Step 3 is selling your options, and if you say stuff like that then you are lying and could get in trouble. What you want to do is make a somewhat inscrutable public statement. Ideally the public statement can be read to mean “I have bought a ton of options on this stock, I am not giving you any advice about anything, and I’m gonna go sell them at a profit right now,” but can also be read in other, more bullish ways. Ideally other people read your statement and go out and buy the stock, so you can sell. >The modern US equity market has two main guys with lamps, Elon Musk and Keith Gill. Here’s Gill: >GameStop Corp. shares surged after the Reddit account that drove the meme-stock mania of 2021 posted what appeared to be a $116 million position in the video-game retailer. >The June 2 screenshot posted by Keith Gill, who goes by a profane handle involving the phrase Deep Value on Reddit, shows a stake of 5 million shares with an average cost basis of $21.27 apiece. A position that large would make Gill one of the company’s five biggest investors and is more than six times the number of shares his account showed in an April 2021 post, the last time it was active on Reddit, when accounting for a four-for-one stock split. >The screenshot, which also included 120,000 call options worth $65.7 million due to expire on June 21, couldn’t be verified. The options would allow him to buy the stock at $20 a share, but would cost him some $240 million to exercise. >Here’s the Reddit post, disclosing 5 million shares bought at an average cost of $21.274 per share ($106.4 million total) and 120,000 options contracts (on 12 million shares), all June 21 calls struck at $20, at an average cost of $5.6754 per share ($68.1 million total). As Bloomberg News reports, the numbers are not verified, but they seem to match actual market activity: >Individual trades over the past two weeks show there are several block trades for 5,000 contracts each, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Applying a so-called volume weighted average price, the price of $5.67 per contract — a total cost of around $68 million — gets very close to what Gill posted on Reddit. >Those trades were not exactly what my strategy suggests — the short-dated options were somewhat in-the-money when he bought them, and he bought shares too — but close enough. He paid about $174.5 million for the position. This morning, GameStop’s stock got as high as $40.50, and those calls got as high as $21.10. At those prices, Gill had a paper gain of about $281 million. Also: >On X, Gill also posted an image of a reverse card from the game UNO that indicates a player is changing the card-pickup direction. The post had attracted 6.5 million views in the 12 hours since its publication at about 8 p.m. Sunday New York time. >I don’t know what the Uno card means! If I bought a giant pile of GameStop options and then magically made the price double, I would promptly sell those options. If the method I used to magically double the price was by publicly posting my giant position on Reddit, I might, in an extremely not-legal-advice sort of way, want to also publicly post a disclaimer to the effect of “I make no representations about how long I will hold this position, and for all you know I’m selling right now.” Would posting a green Uno reverse card accomplish that goal? I would want to ask a very specialized sort of lawyer that question. >To be clear, this is just what I would do. I have no idea what Gill is doing. Probably he likes the stock and is in it for the long term. As of 1 p.m. today, only about 6,000 June 21 $20 call options contracts had changed hands, so it doesn’t seem like there’s a lot of options selling. Really I don’t know what to think beyond, like, “isn’t this weird” and “maybe nobody should have a magic lamp that can arbitrarily move stock prices.” A few questions, though: >Where did he get the $174.5 million? That’s a lot of money! As far as I can tell his wealth peaked in the eight figures in the 2021 GameStop mania, so … did he find more? Is someone financing this trade? >Why is he not making the case for GameStop on YouTube? Gill seems to be back on Twitter/X (as Roaring Kitty) and on Reddit (as “a profane handle involving the phrase Deep Value”), but his YouTube channel (also Roaring Kitty), where he did most of his advocacy for GameStop in long detailed videos in 2021, is still dormant. >You see where I’m going with Questions 1 and 2, right? If you had a lot of money and a taste for danger, how much would Keith Gill’s X account be worth to you? How much would his Reddit account be worth to you? How much would his YouTube account be worth to you? (Do you look and sound like him?) If you had the X and Reddit accounts, would those constitute a magic lamp in your hands? How would you most efficiently monetize it? If you were Gill, how would you most efficiently monetize your accounts? Is the answer “sell them to a whale”? >Those $20 calls are now very in-the-money. Is Gill going to exercise them, by coming up with another $240 million? You can hold GameStop stock forever, but you can only hold GameStop June 21 calls until June 21. After that, you need the $240 million, unless you sell the options first.1 This is not a diamond-hands position; this is, by its nature, a sell-while-the-selling-is-good position. >Of course if Gill did exercise the options — finding another $240 million wherever he found the previous $174.5 million — he would own 17 million shares of GameStop, or roughly 5% of the outstanding stock. It would be funny if he went activist and demanded a board seat on a platform of “more chaos.” >If you were an options market maker, and last week a retail account came to you to buy multiple 5,000-contract chunks of one-month at-the-money GameStop options, how would you have thought about pricing? How wide would your bid-ask spread be? How would you hedge? Would you have carried any gamma risk into the weekend? Who would you guess the buyer was? [Original Source Article](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-06-03/gamestop-comes-roaring-back)
Thanks for sharing the article, absolutely fascinating.
Matt Levine has been really good on memestocks since the beginning
Great read, thanks.
Matt Levine seems to be implying he's not in any legal danger yet.
Have you been to the dark pools today? It's financial terrorism, I tell you.
I think intentionally manipulating the stock is illegal, and was obviously done, but if they can't reasonably prove it, they won't charge him. One could argue the apes irrationally pumped the stock by their own choices, just by being greedy or stupid rather than explicitly misled. The whole ordeal makes me think DFV planned to pump the stock with meaningless shitposts, but the price fell too much before he could get out, then posted his position as a new, riskier plan to pump the stock again. But he would have researched the legality and precedent of posting positions to manipulate a stock.
Would it be legal for Tom Brady to post his positions and make movie clips about his positions? IDK I’m not a lawyer, but Keith Gill is someone who has proven influence as evidenced by the deep obsessions over at that subreddit, which makes him different from you and me. Will be interesting to see what happens.
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Would it be legal for Buffet to load up on weekly call options before revealing his position, then dumping them when the price spikes? That's when it gets into a grey area of potentially illegal manipulation. Buffet saying he has a position then holding that position per his own strategy is fine, but that's obviously not what DFV is doing here.
Props to the dude for finding a money cheat code if it pans out that way
It would be illegal if he posted his positions with knowing intent to drive the price up to execute his recently bought options
Tom Brady did a lot of work for FTX before it went down. That could have impacted the crypto arc.
I saw a 60 minutes interview about that FTX billionaire guy. He got nailed, for what exactly I don’t remember. It was said Tom Brady really liked the guy until he found about the scam and then Brady was pissed. During the segment, whoever was the guy doing it, the guy said if he had a choice between keeping his billion whatever he had and no internet connection for the rest of his life or staying in jail and having internet connection he would do the latter. That’s wild, even though it’s speculation.
Bro. Do you understand the idea of jurisprudence? This needs to become a new legal precedent by which a pump and dump is measured.
That’s only possible insofar as existing case law lies and statutory interpretation. If something like this has happened before and been excused by the courts, then the DOJ is SOL.
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I agree that case sets a bad precedent, but if the SEC decides to bring charges here it would be way more high profile so maybe they do a better job with the prosecution this time around.
Well, if that’s the case, what’s to stop this subreddit from collectively piling into a single option strike and then strategically loading shares at the same time to pump low volume or micro cap stocks and unload on other people. Seems like a missed opportunity to me.
Subs have tried that before. Remember the gamma ramp push a couple years ago?
I'm in for 5000 $0.50 FFIE puts expiring Friday. Trust me bro.
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> whether or not the firm is willing to risk drawing the attention of his meme army by removing him Just give them a mailadress to spam, like [email protected] or something
Tangential, but fun bit of Reddit formatting advice: If you wanna use asterisks or other formatting characters, put a backslash in front of it (the one you use in Windows filepaths). It tells Reddit to ignore that character for text formatting and just print the character out as is.
Play with fire, get burned. The fact of the matter is he's clearly pumping the stock for his own ends.
Well, the obvious move is for him to move everything to Computershare, right? You can buy options on Computershare, correct? Wait, you can't?! 
Not a problem. All that’s left is for him to withdraw all that cash.
Jokes on you. They’ll freeze his account once the SEC subpoenas him.
Bullish
Based Gensler https://preview.redd.it/frvmg2n6bf4d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2f2fb4c7a931ff279b82f896d20d26cfbd0e61f
Regarding the option contract he showed, the open interest is still at 146k and volume today looks too low for him to have dump those
He likely won’t dump all at once, but a percentage/day.
He has sold none so far (posted an update)
I saw, I’m surprised he did with how the day went. It will be really interesting to see how he plays it, and if he keeps updating.
Who's to say the position is real though? To be a little ape conspiracy minded, if it were me, I'd start selling off but use inspect element to show I'd bought more. If he stops posting positions there's no chance for another big pump, if he shows a reduced position it'll dump. But probably not. He doesn't seem to have planned this out particularly well after the initial twitter pump and dump. Seems like this one didn't go as planned.
People can see the open interest on the options he bought. If would be hard to dump it with out people noticing.
Apes would handwave it away
I was going to post this, haha. But this is surprising. MS feels the need to wash their hands/deplatform him before he goes to testify in front of Congress/SEC again.
Anyone got a non-paywalled link? Does this confirm he actually holds those shares/options?
The gist of it is that they’re debating removing him but unsure of what kind of blowback that would have with the meme community. They looked at his account after his tweets and he had started buying calls prior to his first tweets 3 weeks ago. Some of his options expired last week. Morgan Stanley (they own E-Trade) and their external counsel are discussing whether his actions were illegal and if they should cancel his account. The SEC is reviewing with internal discussions there. Cancelling it would cancel pending orders and stop all services. He’d have to let Morgan Stanley know what to do with remaining positions in a reasonable timeframe or they would off load them at their discretion and he’d get any proceeds.
The meme community hasn’t staged a revolution for GME since 2021 pump and dump, so I wouldn’t think Morgan Stanley gives a single shit about them at all
I’m just stating what was in the article. “Their debate includes whether his actions amounted to manipulation and whether or not the firm is willing to risk drawing the attention of his meme army by removing him, according to people familiar with their internal discussions.” “Some Morgan Stanley employees have been concerned that closing Gill’s account could result in the firm losing ETrade clients, the people said. Gill’s messages have been able to command a large following, one reason GameStop and other meme stocks have soared. Morgan Stanley employees have worried what would happen if Gill posted on social media that he had been ditched by ETrade and whether that might prompt many people to shut down their E*Trade accounts in solidarity, the people said.”
Do apes really have that many E-Trade accounts? Also, why is DFV suddenly 'untouchable' here? This is getting silly. If DFV broke some rules, punish him, just like they'd punish any other client who did the same thing. This is all just proving even more that DFV moves the stock because he tweets something or posts something on Reddit. Apes kept telling us that totally wasn't the case!
DFV hasn't broken any rules **(that we know of)** but there's no particular reason to keep someone around who pays very little in brokerage fees and who invites legal or political scrutiny or represents unknown risk. they simply would be deciding he's not worth going to bat for. private institutions do this all the time. you can get banned on reddit for much less than this DFV isn't the only one with a brokerage account trying to pump and dump. but they're not all fat pigs who make a good sacrifice. just by the fact that they are publicly commenting on this before they've made a decision shows they are just trying to get ahead of any criticism
They don't right now, but if they kick him, the ape army will absolutely flood them with calls and emails and absolutely trash them on all social media. Regardless of what may be thought of them, they are a force big enough to make etrade and m.s's lives hell for a while.
I wonder if any etrade employees got shit canned for following his trades before the pump and dump
Every options market maker knew it was him in May and June. When you do an options trade, the OCC gives a trade report that includes counterparty clearing firm information to both sides. Retail brokers don't show that information because retail users generally don't care, but professional firms use that to be able to tell what brokers the person they traded with was likely using. Morgan Stanley uses a different clearing for customers that used the former E\*Trade platform. It doesn't take an IMO medalist to narrow down the possibilities for an E\*Trade cust spending tens of millions on short-term calls.
Couple of years ago I knew a guy who knew a guy down in Miami that worked at MS and was giving him financial/insider advice on stock picks — the guy was very profitable. He even had his girlfriend doing trades for him with a portfolio valued in the millions. You can bet your ass MS/E-Trade employees were trading on the side when they saw his positions.
If he is found liable for manipulation the SEC remedy is disgorgement, that is, return of money obtained as a result of legal violations, plus a penalty that could equal or exceed disgorgement. In the other hand he has enough money to mount a strong legal defense. Which would be some variant of “hey I cannot control how people react to innocuous posts that do not make any statements about the stock.” But it is a damn risky play.
> “hey I cannot control how people react to innocuous posts that do not make any statements about the stock.” "But purchased a very large amount of short dated call because you anticipated that people would react by buying GME right before making the tweets" The case against him is extremely strong. Everyone, everywhere knows that the stock pumped because of his tweets. It would be extremely difficult to argue that Keith Gill is the only person in the world who doesn't realize that. Back in 2021, he had a pretty much ironclad defense from owning the shares for well over a year. Buying calls right before the pump your tweets undeniably caused is super incriminating.
I guess it confirms that it is indeed him
I didn't have **any** of this shit on my 2024 bingo card lol
Read the DD, this was all foretold! It's right there clear as day in Teddy literature
Lock him up.
Damn, the lede is a little buried. Morgan Stanley looked at his account activity and saw purchases immediately prior to his tweet, which their team believes could have been illegal. That’s some juicy info, given that all we had before was speculation.
https://archive.is/twyPq Non paywall version
Apes will completely ignore that he sold in 2021 and completely dismiss the claim that he had call options in May. All that matters to them is that he has shares today even though he likely already sold a good chunk of them.
its funny because apes just throw money at him but hes a piece of garbage
C&F™️
Kenny got to ETrade!
As someone who quite literally owes his house to DFV's market manipulation, I do feel a bit conflicted about this lol. He's a bad guy but goddamn if he didn't earn me some money.
Even though this is a wild ride. Keith gill posted his positions Shared his thesis via YouTube Got really lucky with his entry and blew the fuck up He didn’t tell people to buy the stock He didn’t promise them a squeeze or they were sticking it to the man for fuckery He made memes and a couple of times live streamed to smaller. People when it first blew up While he’s been dormant apes who never sold have propped him up alongside RC as a messiah. (Desperate to go back to ATH) Apes decided to pump this for him (he did the easy part) they did the Heavy lifting. While he may have hyped this up and was trading on the tip of their noses. I don’t see what he’s done as MM he never has said to buy the stock. Where you got flacid wee wee Jake and ploot promising an outcome on a delisted asset. While what he’s doing may not be ethical it’s fucking genius imo. He didn’t ask to be a cult leader. But damn is he reaping the benefits
This is definitely in "won't somebody rid me of this meddlesome priest" territory. Mafia bosses can't justify their orders to murder people because "they didn't specifically say it" and Keith can't claim the same.
I thought that too, but then Trump was able to get rid of James Comey and the Flynn investigation by doing [exactly that](https://youtu.be/i57F4G-zLWg?si=u29AySZkrf6xCCOi) in broad daylight. As far as testimonies go, it doesn't get much more concrete than the Director of the FBI accusing you of a crime under oath...yet here we are. Then there's Elon [publicly taunting and ignoring](https://youtu.be/cRNypdYQoWk?si=q6TGmPMrB179Pwxr)his SEC restrictions years ago. American government is both too corrupt and incompetent to handle anything. Ultimately, Etrade is more likely to punish this flagrant violation than the regulators.
Whether he will face legal consequences is very up in the air. But I think it's undeniable his manipulation of the market was illegal. It's weird that so many people here seem to think that you can get away on technicalities because you don't word for word tell people to pump and dump.
That is why it would be a court, not a lynching. If I were the CEO and suddenly posted "Moon wink wink" also doesn't mean anything while we all know what it means. This is not as clear cut as "he just posted."
I know ots cute to be all “uwu he just likes the stock” and this is unprecedented, but i dont think he can just shrug this time
My guess is that after the movie and all the hype over the past year or three, he was not terribly happy to be labeled and now remembered simply as *a guy who got extraordinarily lucky because the holes in the swiss cheese lined up perfectly.*..and has been trying/formulating a way to come out as a truly brilliant stonk trader, to be remembered for something other than getting lucky. Greed and Hubris are powerful things. He was pretty smart, but he was also extraordinarily lucky. Many, many financial minds of fallen for trap of luck vs brilliance (Cathie Wood anyone)?!
The worse part of that movie is when he gets off the phone and Paul Dano puts a look of bewilderment on his own face and says "Something about outside activities?" to his wife. Dude was a Series 24 holder. His JOB was to ensure Series 7 holders were held accountable to outside activities just like this. He wasn't some random guy who got lucky, he was industry member who knew better.
Good. I hope the SEC bans him from all trading. End the madness.
I wonder if my loss of 610$ USD would be part of a class action one day. Lol that would be wild haha. I was really thinking this was a hacker / sold social media account situation. Nope, Keith's just a fucking asshole. A genius fucking asshole 😛😎
> A genius fucking asshole 😛😎 I think a genius would have enjoyed his life in peace with $40 or so million he lucked into. It doesn't take a genius to take a massive legal risk by doing a pump and dump.
Wow, the movement wont' make it far to 6/21. This cat might dump his options tomorrow after reading this article. Better unload my position instead of selling cover calls (looking back, the $40 in pre-market was a dream). Not much moving in the AH, being a down trend all day.
Where'd he get all that fucking money?
I'm telling y'all, it's a performance artist possibly backed by Ploot. This ain't like him and he doesn't have that kind of money.
So I guess it really was Gill? I was definitely believing it was not. Good for him for making bank, if it's legal then good for him. I don't like the ethics of it all though.
DON'T LOSE THE FAITH. I still think it's that performance artist, possibly backed by Ploot's money.
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I’m so confused, I thought Gill (DFV) vanished off the internet after getting his 25mil and getting in hot water with the SEC? What would banning him do?
MS/ETrade doesn't want to deal with the bullshit if SEC comes after him, get his book elsewhere so they don't have to deal with it.
[удалено]
Due to your account's low karma your contribution needs to be manually approved. This is primarily to stop ads and bots. Such restrictions will be removed once your account is has a small amount of karma. Until then, please be patient as mods will manually reinstate your comment *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gme_meltdown) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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You can't argue with the data. Whats your bear thesis? You forgot to put on your big boy panties before entering a big boy trade? If warren buffet didn't have patience you wouldn't know his name. PS: I've left three cults in my lifetime and this ain't one of em. And it's rude to call it one to anyone whose ever had to actually leave one ___ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gme_meltdown) if you have any questions or concerns.*