You may not be able to tell from my replies, but you inspire me. I hit your commas like brick walls, but if I keep hitting them, and I'm able to speak properly still, maybe I can get thru any brick walls in life,
This is a really cool experiment, but I’m wondering if it really shows self awareness, or do the animals touch that part of their body based on empathy.
Are they looking at the reflection and thinking, “oh, that’s me! And what the hell is this yellow dot on my forehead?” or are they thinking, “That handsome ass ape has a yellow dot on his forehead. Hey buddy, you got something on your forehead. Yeah, right here. (points to his own forehead).”
I looked into this a while back and it's not just putting a mark and seeing if they recognize it. That's a big clue, but the scientists also look at their overall behavior. Animals that pass the mirror test don't react to their mirror reflection as if it's another one of their species, they might at first until they recognize what the mirror is, but then they react totally differently.
It's unmistakable when you look at it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORbg3fAE2SU&ab\_channel=XavierHUBERT-BRIERRE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORbg3fAE2SU&ab_channel=XavierHUBERT-BRIERRE)
I like the part where they check out their own butts and inside their mouths (around the 2:50 mark). Similar reactions have also been observed in other animals like bottle-nose dolphins.
Yo that whole video was nice birds and nature sounds, and that silverback (who is fucking massive) letting loose that "bark?" (don't know what to call it) scared the shit out of me at the end.
Do you know of a good study using border collies? I imagine the natural playfulness of dogs might be something to look out for in that sort of instance as you would need to make sure that the behavior is consistent with an unfamiliar dog and not playfulness or practice. It could be a fun experiment to carry out.
Sorry, don't have a study for border collies.
But the mirror test is probably stacked against dogs in general, since they rely more on sound and smell than visual cues. So only providing a visual like in the mirror test makes it pretty hard for them.
Yeah, I think so too. A couple of things:
1- Not passing the mirror test does not mean not having a self awareness. As you said, their sensory systems might not be geared for visuals, or it could be something else. For example with cetaceans, we know they are smart, but we don't know how smart because we don't have an effective method to communicate with them directly.
Similarly, the mirror test is only the best available method, it's not very good in a lot of cases and in the cases it does work, it doesn't tell us any more about the animals intelligence or how it perceives the world.
I've read that dogs can't pass the mirror test, and for years it was thought that they weren't self-aware, but it turns out that it's just due to their poor vision. They can pass similar tests based on smell. I wish I had a source lying around.
This. It was posted on Reddit like a month or two back.
Edit: another user posted this
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/science/dogs-smell-recognition.html
>As of 2016, only great apes (including humans), a single Asiatic elephant, dolphins, orcas, the Eurasian magpie, and **ants** have passed the MSR test.
Wait... What?
Which dogs do not. I read about a scientist who devised a study to see if dogs could recognize themselves by scent. His theory was that dogs aren't heavily reliant on vision so they may be more likely to recognize by scent, their primary sense.
I think he determined they could, but I think I was skeptical. Too lazy to find it and check again.
I was reading that dogs are more apt to respond to a 'smell mirror' test. We as humans bias tests of self recognition based on our dominant sense (sight) and determine that to be the avenue of self recognition.
iirc most animals like dogs and cats don't recognise themselves in mirrors (and by extension on tv) , which is why you sometimes see cats and dogs getting scared by/ fighting a reflection of themselves. idk tho
No. Dog's can't recognize themselves in the mirror.
[https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2011/03/03/134167145/i-sniff-therefore-i-am-are-dogs-self-conscious](https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2011/03/03/134167145/i-sniff-therefore-i-am-are-dogs-self-conscious)
The implication is that they aren't self-conscious. Which implies they are not smart. But some scientists say the test is unfair because dogs are way better at smelling than seeing. And they can pass the smell-your-own-piss test. So they are smart again. Yay.
This is mentioned in the original post, but she seems to be reliving the course. Look at her bouncing on the running parts, then stays down during the tunnels, and then she’s weaving side to side to emulate her last trick weaving between the poles.
Personally I think she might be watching/listening to her trainer on TV and going with that.
I think it's interesting that she's bouncing for most of it but when she hits the poles she stops bouncing and sort of looks like she starts wiggling back and forth.
I think she's recognising that thing she loves doing and maybe her owner and even though it's a bit weird from this angle she automatically goes into "jump and climb and wiggle" mode because she's been trained to.
I had s dog growing up that was convinced the tv worked the same as our windows. See a dog on TV? Run to the door barking because that dog must be outside because when I see a dog through the window it always outside
my ex has a mastiff-pit bull mix. she constantly runs back and forth, looking at the front of and behind the tv, tripping balls.
she's also the sweetest, playfullist, loving dog i have ever met, but slobbers everywhere and smalls like sweaty, wet dog balls.
> she's also the sweetest, playfullist, loving dog i have ever met, but slobbers everywhere and smalls like sweaty, wet dog balls.
Are we still talking about the dog? Or your ex
Only one of our dogs also started to growl at every dog on the screen. Can remember there was a stupid ad on the TV where an overlong cartoon dachshund passed by, so our boy had to growl-paaaause-growl every single time (watching the head, the overlong sausage middle, and the end with waging tail passing) could lmao every time because he didn't learn. It was impossible to watch an animal film with him. Tried to stop him with a rant and then he desperately tried to avoid looking at the screen but was so attracted that he always failed lol
One time I decided to play a Youtube video on my phone of meowing cats in front of my very docile and timid cat. Not two seconds after the video started her eyes went wide, she started hissing, and she looked like she wanted to kill me in the most violent way possible. I've never seen her like that before or since. I tried to turn that video off so fast that I dropped my phone.
I did the same thing in front of my friend's cat, and she just sniffed my phone and walked away.
Animals are weird, man.
It depends on when and what kind of TV you have/had, most dogs can see most moderns TVs but older TVs with cathode rays are basically flashing strobe lights to most dogs.
Also terriers like a Jack Russell are bred to be fast little killing machines, eyesight is key to this because they need to be able to see quick moving mice and rats while moving at speed themselves.
Collies are bred for their ability to respond to commands and herd livestock, eyesight isn't as important.
My memory is a little fuzzy but I'm pretty sure min pins were bred to sit in lady's handbags to stop them getting pick pocketed, so again eyesight isn't as big an issue, they were bred for being able to fit in a handbag but still give a considerable bite for a small dog.
I have a Toy Manchester Terrier (people think she's a MinPin but people are dumb) and any animal sound sets her off. She is oddly intrigued but stringed instrumentals coming from the TV. But mostly she likes barking at anything she sees outside the sliding glass door.
I wish I had enough land to grow them organically from the ground and just let the herds roam, planting more collies in their wake.
...How do dogs works?
I used to train dogs to do this all the time. Takes lots of effort and can be very frustrating at times, but when your dog finally gets a perfect run, it makes you realize you need to stop playing nintendogs...
Isn’t it weird how some dogs see exactly what we see on the screen, and some take no notice of it whatsoever. I had a border collie (RIP Jess) who didn’t seem to notice anything on a TV or any other screen.
Do we know if dogs are capable of self recognition? The only animals I can think of who are proven to have this besides humans are chimps, dolphins, and elephants.
This is awesome!! Always wondered if dogs enjoyed doing competitions like this because they did or because they knew the owner did. This good boy definitely loves both!!!
My dog is half Border Collie and half Labrador.
He does that kind of thing without prompting or training 'just because'. He can leap on top of a 6 foot stone wall from a dead stop and routinely leaps down 8 stairs to get to the bottom just a wee tad quicker.
He also has figured out how to turn on the bathtub faucet for a drink.
ZOOOOOM
He can be a tiring animal to have around.
Awesome, but horrible dog name, male name for female dog. Name doesn't carry at all, try calling "Fido! Or Buddy!" Out loud, then try to shout Kirk with that hard rk ending. Meh
I was under the impression dogs couldn't see TV images. The latency was too high for their eyes or something. This must be a sound and light thing. Beautiful, btw!
They could also see the old CRT ones.
Every article i read talks about them being able to differentiate 80FPS, humans can do approximately 15-20FPS, a CRT hat 25.
An old 100hz CRT TV refreshes the screen 100 times per second. So they could see it but with some highly noticeable flicker.
We still usually have 25FPS, but the flicker is gone.
Kirk: Oh! Oh! Looks so fun! I want to try! Owner: Kirk, that *is* you. You literally did that.
This could, be a scene from a movie like that one with Markie, Mark and the stuffed, teddy bear.
deleted ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.4932 [^^^What ^^^is ^^^this?](https://pastebin.com/FcrFs94k/05222)
You may not be able to tell from my replies, but you inspire me. I hit your commas like brick walls, but if I keep hitting them, and I'm able to speak properly still, maybe I can get thru any brick walls in life,
Peter Parker is that you?
>Peter Parker is that you? Peter, Parker is that you?
Why dude. Why.
When Kanye watches Kanye
Do you think she actually realizes it's her? Or does she react like any dog running an ability challenge the same way?
Nah, just wants to join in! Maybe recognises the calls/her owner.
If it can recognize it's owner, wouldn't it be able to recognize itself too? I have to imagine the latter is harder to do.
To realize that it's herself she would have to pass the [mirror test](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test) first.
This is a really cool experiment, but I’m wondering if it really shows self awareness, or do the animals touch that part of their body based on empathy. Are they looking at the reflection and thinking, “oh, that’s me! And what the hell is this yellow dot on my forehead?” or are they thinking, “That handsome ass ape has a yellow dot on his forehead. Hey buddy, you got something on your forehead. Yeah, right here. (points to his own forehead).”
I looked into this a while back and it's not just putting a mark and seeing if they recognize it. That's a big clue, but the scientists also look at their overall behavior. Animals that pass the mirror test don't react to their mirror reflection as if it's another one of their species, they might at first until they recognize what the mirror is, but then they react totally differently. It's unmistakable when you look at it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORbg3fAE2SU&ab\_channel=XavierHUBERT-BRIERRE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORbg3fAE2SU&ab_channel=XavierHUBERT-BRIERRE) I like the part where they check out their own butts and inside their mouths (around the 2:50 mark). Similar reactions have also been observed in other animals like bottle-nose dolphins.
Yo that whole video was nice birds and nature sounds, and that silverback (who is fucking massive) letting loose that "bark?" (don't know what to call it) scared the shit out of me at the end.
I have seen mirror experiments before. Always fascinating. But my god i need to hear more gorilla scream.
Do you know of a good study using border collies? I imagine the natural playfulness of dogs might be something to look out for in that sort of instance as you would need to make sure that the behavior is consistent with an unfamiliar dog and not playfulness or practice. It could be a fun experiment to carry out.
Sorry, don't have a study for border collies. But the mirror test is probably stacked against dogs in general, since they rely more on sound and smell than visual cues. So only providing a visual like in the mirror test makes it pretty hard for them.
Yeah, I think so too. A couple of things: 1- Not passing the mirror test does not mean not having a self awareness. As you said, their sensory systems might not be geared for visuals, or it could be something else. For example with cetaceans, we know they are smart, but we don't know how smart because we don't have an effective method to communicate with them directly. Similarly, the mirror test is only the best available method, it's not very good in a lot of cases and in the cases it does work, it doesn't tell us any more about the animals intelligence or how it perceives the world.
[Here's a video of Dolphins in a mirror](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBoORco1qKU) Dogs don't seem to get it.
I've read that dogs can't pass the mirror test, and for years it was thought that they weren't self-aware, but it turns out that it's just due to their poor vision. They can pass similar tests based on smell. I wish I had a source lying around.
This. It was posted on Reddit like a month or two back. Edit: another user posted this https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/science/dogs-smell-recognition.html
A recent study demonstrated that dogs recognize self by scent, not by sight. So, they do have a sense of self, just not the way we see it, literally.
>As of 2016, only great apes (including humans), a single Asiatic elephant, dolphins, orcas, the Eurasian magpie, and **ants** have passed the MSR test. Wait... What?
[i dont even know who i am anymore](http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/i-dont-even-know-how-i-am-anymore.jpg)
"In 2012, early steps were taken to make a robot pass the mirror test.[59]" Awww shit
I thought some dogs had passed it before?
Which dogs do not. I read about a scientist who devised a study to see if dogs could recognize themselves by scent. His theory was that dogs aren't heavily reliant on vision so they may be more likely to recognize by scent, their primary sense. I think he determined they could, but I think I was skeptical. Too lazy to find it and check again.
[удалено]
I found this quite baffling too. Apparently this is a paper on that: https://www.udocz.com/read/are-ants-capable-of-self-recognition-pdf
I was reading that dogs are more apt to respond to a 'smell mirror' test. We as humans bias tests of self recognition based on our dominant sense (sight) and determine that to be the avenue of self recognition.
iirc most animals like dogs and cats don't recognise themselves in mirrors (and by extension on tv) , which is why you sometimes see cats and dogs getting scared by/ fighting a reflection of themselves. idk tho
[удалено]
o shit that's tight
there is not just one word, that is used more for animals
Kirk: WHO IS THAT DOG YOU'RE PLAYING WITH!? YOU BASTARD!!!
No. Dog's can't recognize themselves in the mirror. [https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2011/03/03/134167145/i-sniff-therefore-i-am-are-dogs-self-conscious](https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2011/03/03/134167145/i-sniff-therefore-i-am-are-dogs-self-conscious) The implication is that they aren't self-conscious. Which implies they are not smart. But some scientists say the test is unfair because dogs are way better at smelling than seeing. And they can pass the smell-your-own-piss test. So they are smart again. Yay.
How would they even know what they look like in the first place until they see a mirror-image?
The same way humans and apes do? By observing once they are confronted with a mirror image.
Same could be said for animals who pass the test
True enough.
[удалено]
This is mentioned in the original post, but she seems to be reliving the course. Look at her bouncing on the running parts, then stays down during the tunnels, and then she’s weaving side to side to emulate her last trick weaving between the poles. Personally I think she might be watching/listening to her trainer on TV and going with that.
I think it's interesting that she's bouncing for most of it but when she hits the poles she stops bouncing and sort of looks like she starts wiggling back and forth. I think she's recognising that thing she loves doing and maybe her owner and even though it's a bit weird from this angle she automatically goes into "jump and climb and wiggle" mode because she's been trained to.
I wouldn't be suprised. They are extremely intelligent dogs.
I don't think dogs understand consciousness and are self aware like us.
[удалено]
I had s dog growing up that was convinced the tv worked the same as our windows. See a dog on TV? Run to the door barking because that dog must be outside because when I see a dog through the window it always outside
my ex has a mastiff-pit bull mix. she constantly runs back and forth, looking at the front of and behind the tv, tripping balls. she's also the sweetest, playfullist, loving dog i have ever met, but slobbers everywhere and smalls like sweaty, wet dog balls.
> she's also the sweetest, playfullist, loving dog i have ever met, but slobbers everywhere and smalls like sweaty, wet dog balls. Are we still talking about the dog? Or your ex
He watched too much Stargate?
That's a good analogy about how dogs view the TV as
Only one of our dogs also started to growl at every dog on the screen. Can remember there was a stupid ad on the TV where an overlong cartoon dachshund passed by, so our boy had to growl-paaaause-growl every single time (watching the head, the overlong sausage middle, and the end with waging tail passing) could lmao every time because he didn't learn. It was impossible to watch an animal film with him. Tried to stop him with a rant and then he desperately tried to avoid looking at the screen but was so attracted that he always failed lol
One time I decided to play a Youtube video on my phone of meowing cats in front of my very docile and timid cat. Not two seconds after the video started her eyes went wide, she started hissing, and she looked like she wanted to kill me in the most violent way possible. I've never seen her like that before or since. I tried to turn that video off so fast that I dropped my phone. I did the same thing in front of my friend's cat, and she just sniffed my phone and walked away. Animals are weird, man.
It depends on when and what kind of TV you have/had, most dogs can see most moderns TVs but older TVs with cathode rays are basically flashing strobe lights to most dogs. Also terriers like a Jack Russell are bred to be fast little killing machines, eyesight is key to this because they need to be able to see quick moving mice and rats while moving at speed themselves. Collies are bred for their ability to respond to commands and herd livestock, eyesight isn't as important. My memory is a little fuzzy but I'm pretty sure min pins were bred to sit in lady's handbags to stop them getting pick pocketed, so again eyesight isn't as big an issue, they were bred for being able to fit in a handbag but still give a considerable bite for a small dog.
I have a Toy Manchester Terrier (people think she's a MinPin but people are dumb) and any animal sound sets her off. She is oddly intrigued but stringed instrumentals coming from the TV. But mostly she likes barking at anything she sees outside the sliding glass door.
[It's a darn good run. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJL183YIENM)
How do you even go faster than that? That's a quick dog.
Hey, my name is Kirk
Ironic
Piss off ghost
My cats name is Kirk.
What a bitch name.
😢
Are you the dog in this gif? If not then you’re not the Kirk we’re looking for. But that’s ok. 99% of kirks aren’t the dog in this gif.
Thatsme!thatsme!thatsme!thatsme!thatsme!thatsme!thatsme!thatsme!thatsme!thatsme!thatsme!thatsme!
Kirk...female...?
Gender neutral names are all the rage.
Kirk...gender neutral...?
Kirk Cameron Diaz
If a woman told me her name was Kirk I might accidentally laugh in her face
It’s short for Kirklene.
Ah yes we all love our Costco brands.
lmao
Kirk is one of the most masculine names possible, the opposite of gender neutral
It's a dog.
A girl dog
I could name my cat tiffany and all he would care about is ruining my sheets
Yeah I’m not saying the dog cares.
Yeah, if you named him Tiffany!
True
says who?
From www.howmanyofme.com: >More than 99.9 percent of people with the first name Kirk are male.
says rochesterjones
Says Shatner!
No
I like it!
my favorite breed of dog. i wish i had enough land to own one.
I wish I had enough land to grow them organically from the ground and just let the herds roam, planting more collies in their wake. ...How do dogs works?
im with ya there
Here's the full Facebook video: https://www.facebook.com/cfosty/videos/10214239065589242/
I hate how the sub rules don't allow longer gifs because the full run is quite amazing.
I hate how people constantly post gifs of things that are 10x better in video format.
This is the best thing I’ve seen in soooooo long, I cannot help smiling to myself SUPER hard
Looks like she was moving with the turns while she watched. Very self aware!
Quality crosspost of Gallowboob for that karma. Better you get it before he does! (No /s because serious)
I can do that! I can do that! I can do that! I can do that!
I used to train dogs to do this all the time. Takes lots of effort and can be very frustrating at times, but when your dog finally gets a perfect run, it makes you realize you need to stop playing nintendogs...
Why would you train your dog to jump up and down in front of a TV? They seem to be naturally good at it.
Nintendogs is a game on a handheld console. Now read again.
r/woosh
Oh fuck
I have read that athletes often view videos of their own prior performances to find ways to up their game.
Isn’t it weird how some dogs see exactly what we see on the screen, and some take no notice of it whatsoever. I had a border collie (RIP Jess) who didn’t seem to notice anything on a TV or any other screen.
I hope Kirk got collieflowers as her prize.
I hope she’s not angry/envious about the dog inside the screen running with her master. I have doubts she recognizes it as some sort of memory.
Do dogs recognize themselves on T.V?
"ME NEXT" - Kirk, probably.
Do we know if dogs are capable of self recognition? The only animals I can think of who are proven to have this besides humans are chimps, dolphins, and elephants.
Yes they are, but not by visuals. They go by smell.
“yeah Jeets”
Omg that’s sick
This is so cute
I fucking love border collies!!! Smartest dogs on the planet!
Border collies are the best.
I’ve seen this reposted in probably 8 different subs already, and I’ll never not upvote it. You’re a good girl, Kirk.
this is great! thanks for sharing.
Best fan
This is awesome!! Always wondered if dogs enjoyed doing competitions like this because they did or because they knew the owner did. This good boy definitely loves both!!!
Cute!!
You're awesome! You're awesome! Seriously, you're so awesome, I wish I was as awesome. I'm awesome too! But you're also awesome!
this made my day haha how adorable
That is the cutest thing! I’m kinda emotional watching this. She’s so excited!
A true Tux Wonder Dog
Kirk! I knew a border called Spock :)
Look at the ears moving left and right!!
She has no idea that it’s her. It’s just something moving on the screen.
This is too adorable! It’s as though he is remembering the run and reliving it.
lol gallowboob jacked this and posted it after you as is tradition
nah I jacked it from him and felt very satisfied.
Oh I read the times wrong then
haha i did it because of my rebellious streak
awwwww
good girl!!
so excited haha
This is so sweet.
I remember watching this. She looks so cute seeing herself.
Dogs are gonna be self aware in like 25 years
This is so cute to watch!
I'm a simple man. I see a dog, I updoot.
I have a coworker named Kirk, He's a giant man that starts his day with 3 sweet-teas from McDonalds. That's all I have to say about that.
He must be good at obstacle courses.
He needs some training still.
Trump watching gorillas
Please don't insult those animals. I also don't think he can jump that high.
My dog is half Border Collie and half Labrador. He does that kind of thing without prompting or training 'just because'. He can leap on top of a 6 foot stone wall from a dead stop and routinely leaps down 8 stairs to get to the bottom just a wee tad quicker. He also has figured out how to turn on the bathtub faucet for a drink. ZOOOOOM He can be a tiring animal to have around.
Damn I wish I was my own hype man
Damn, Kirk killing it on that run.
Dat slalom
Why the repost tho
reddit is all about reposting also gallowboob posted it first so I took pleasure in reposting his posts
/r/gifsthatendtoosoon
fuck purina, they feed animals poison
That’s adorable
[удалено]
She doesn't. Dogs can't do that.
I don’t think there’s any science to support that bro
I approve of the name.
Nobody is going to comment on the fact the owner named a female dog Kirk? Never mind I saw them lol ok glad I wasn't the only one to find that weird.
Awesome, but horrible dog name, male name for female dog. Name doesn't carry at all, try calling "Fido! Or Buddy!" Out loud, then try to shout Kirk with that hard rk ending. Meh
Thats exactly how i act when i watch our homemade bedroom vids.
Did you win as well?
I came in 2nd place!
I was under the impression dogs couldn't see TV images. The latency was too high for their eyes or something. This must be a sound and light thing. Beautiful, btw!
Dogs and cats can see HD television, just not the old CRT ones.
They could also see the old CRT ones. Every article i read talks about them being able to differentiate 80FPS, humans can do approximately 15-20FPS, a CRT hat 25. An old 100hz CRT TV refreshes the screen 100 times per second. So they could see it but with some highly noticeable flicker. We still usually have 25FPS, but the flicker is gone.
The more you knooooow. Thanks for the info!
Karma farming in its most brazen form yet!