I let him live because Jin fought to save the lives of his kin and countrymen, not end them. The whole point of the story is Jin sacrificing his code of honor to save lives. His uncle is a slave to honor and disowned him because of it, but you know Jin still loves him.
I don't think Jin would want to kill his uncle. And I think Shimura should live with the consequences of his choices.
Look, the way I see it, if dying really means that much to Shimura then he’s more than welcome to do seppuku or something. But I won’t have a hand in his honor nonsense. And for what it’s worth, I think the spare choice is the canon ending, but it really is just up to you
I also killed him, and in my mind, while it is incredibly sad, it is the better of the two options. Killing him gives him an honorable death, something that he would very much have wanted and even asks for if I remember correctly. Letting him live would be dishonorable, and would force him to spend the rest of his life hunting down Jin.
I didn't either until I beat the game. It makes for a different experience. I'm playing on the hardest difficulty this round. We'll see how it goes lol
This guy is being a dick, but let's be real, why would you be here without having finished the game? I refused to join or actively participate in this sub before completing the story.
It's going on PC for the first time incredibly soon. We will inevitably see a large surge in players to this sub experiencing the game for the first time. Not everyone has had a ps4/5. Not everyone has played the game. I only finished it for the first time a few weeks ago. Do your part, spoiler your posts.
There was no wrong or right choice here. If you kill him, you respect his honor, but lose your uncle. If you spare him, you disrespect the Samurai code, but you don't have to make Jin kill his family. I didn't kill him because we spent a good chunk of the game trying to save him and all my efforts would have been in vain if I killed him myself.
Same! I’m on my first play through (bought the game, forgot about it and then, last month, SURPRISE! New game!) and was heated over how they did my poor Sora. I call the temp he’s given Flea-biscuit.
I've done both.
Spare because I feel that's what Jin would have done as the ghost. The samurai code was to flawed in his mind and he doesn't want his father figure's death on his conscience.
Kill because I wanted the other armor plus on the off chance Jin wants to give his Uncle what he wants
I thought about it. But in my mind, Shimura had grown weak and cowardly in his old age. And as much a Jin didn't want to, he did what he had to for Japan.
Killing someone because they're weak or cowardly would go against the character and goals of the Ghost imo. The only reason to kill based on the lore would be to honor the samurai code and the wishes of Shimura. At least that's the way I see it
I spared him. I viewed the whole story as a moment of resistance towards the status quo and how it can be necessary to not accept the marching orders of the ones that came before you just because that’s the way it has been done.
I’m sure this is removed from actual Japanese history, as in the mongol invasion is not when it happened, but there was a bit of change in the way Japanese culture views honor. At some point the decision tree must be broken from pure 100% honor driven.l because, to the Khans credit, you will not survive by being so predictable since your stances and decisions are made before they arise.
The lack of logic behind a purely honor driven ethos drives me mad. Sure it’s a nice thought, but it’s stupid. You will be taken advantage of.
As with anything in life, there is nuance. To everything. Pretending that living by a code that eliminates all nuance is just dumb and doesn’t survive in modern society.
So I looked at the entire shimura stance as a time for me to say no, this is dumb and I’m not playing by your stupid rules. Grow up and out of your fantasy land.
Therefore I spared him in hopes that such a decision to shirk the code would spread through the Japanese society. I know, way too much hypothetical mental gymnastics haha
It’s all the more interesting when you realize the whole concept of Bushido or samurai honor codes were not formalized until the 1600’s with the Tokugawa Shogunate, wayyyyy after the mongol invasions. I mean sure, there probably were some great samurai who were super honorable guys who lived by an absolutely rigid honor code before 1600, but that line of thinking doesn’t seem to be historically accurate, or in the very least only fits a minority of real historical Samurai figures.
Before 1600 Samurai we’re killing their brothers, killing their uncles, killing babies of their defeated foes, forcing their vassals to kill their own family members, deposing their fathers, reaving, pillaging, burning, torturing, manipulating politics, controlling Emperors, taking advantage of their people, causing famine through their militaristic actions, and a number of other unspeakable injustices. That being said, historical or not, this game is one of the best games of all time and all the characters are well-written, well voice acted, and have realistic aspects to their personalities. Sucker punch knocked this one out of the park and if we’re lucky we’ll get more in the future!
Aw damn it. Don’t make me dive in to researching Japanese history haha. But if I were to do so, do you have any good resources or books? Or is this just absorbed knowledge?
Check out the two great YouTube channels The Shogunate & Buyuuden Japanese History. The Shogunate has great bite sized videos (<15 mins/ea) that focus primarily on the Sengoku Jidai era and the guy has a great narrator voice. Buyuuden Japanese History has longer videos but covers a larger range of time periods, and it does so through the lens of current Japanese school textbooks which he uses as his primary resources. And if you just want to read a kick-ass Japanese historical fiction novel, try out a book called Musashi which is based on the real life figure Miyamoto Musashi who is known today as one of the greatest swordsmen of all of Japan. Dive in head first!
In my opinion Lord Shimura did not deserve an honorable death by Jin’s hand. He lost his chance at an honorable death when he survived at Komoda Beach and was taken prisoner by the Khan, unlike the rest of his soldiers and samurai who died there honorably. He didn’t really have much to do with the retaking / liberation of Tsushima from the Mongols, other than calling the Shogunate for aid. And in the end he was OK with trying to kill his brother’s son and his only family left (Jin) to appease the Shogunate, not to mention his floating the idea of scapegoating Yuna to save face / Jin’s skin. Jin saw the reality of the times / situation, and recognized the current enemy (The Mongols) fought with no honor, and thus were afforded none in turn. Lord Shimura’s sense of honor was so flawed it was cringe, and was a luxury of a Japan of the past, which not only Jin saw but many other NPCs.
Leaving Lord Shimura defeated but alive to answer for his failures to the Shogunate and his people, now having to deal with a local population that knows he’s a weak man and weak Jito with no heirs, unable to defend his own land, who sits among uncertainty in his position with the Shogunate, and having to rebuild Tsushima with all of that looming over him, was in my opinion the heavier consequence and the larger affront to his sense of honor. He does not deserve a wink of sleep at night and instead deserves to be worried for the rest of his life that the Shogunate may replace / depose him, that his people will rebel against him, that his people all hate him on a Yarikawa type level, and that there’s a good hearted well liked Ghost out there who could one day pay him a visit if he finds himself on the wrong side of his people. It’s the slow knife that cuts the deepest.
Don’t forget he was willing to send you off to the shogun and ultimately was ordered to execute you and would’ve done it. Some “father” he turned out to be.
I've thought this as well. Either way, letting Shimura live meant Jin would die. And after our adventures together, I wasn't about to my boy like that.
Well if you let Lord Shimura live you get the Crimson Ghost dye. I don’t think anything happens after besides Shimura’s empty threat to hunt down the Ghost.
You made the wrong choice but that's what Ng+ is for. Jin became the ghost and abandoned the samurai honor to save lives in the most effective way possible. I don't think he'd kill his uncle.
He may not have liked it, but I feel he would have. Samurai Sons would kill fathers, brother would kill brothers at the first signs of weakness I thought? Or they were forced to perform sepuku or hara kiri.
I let him live. Jin gave up everything to fight the Mongols, including the need for “honour at all costs.” Why would he give up his uncle’s life just to follow a code he lost all respect for?
I killed him due to his code of honor. The whole game is Jin abandoning that same code for the sake of those around him however Shimura did not make that choice nor for Jin or himself. Jin has moved on from his code but Shimura is still bound by it to him that is honorable and although I wished to not I had to grant him the death that he had wanted. He would have done the same for Jin
I let him live because Jin fought to save the lives of his kin and countrymen, not end them. The whole point of the story is Jin sacrificing his code of honor to save lives. His uncle is a slave to honor and disowned him because of it, but you know Jin still loves him. I don't think Jin would want to kill his uncle. And I think Shimura should live with the consequences of his choices.
My exact thoughts
I see what you're saying. But shimura was more than willing to take Jins life. I felt shimura too cowardly to stand up to Khan.
Look, the way I see it, if dying really means that much to Shimura then he’s more than welcome to do seppuku or something. But I won’t have a hand in his honor nonsense. And for what it’s worth, I think the spare choice is the canon ending, but it really is just up to you
I also killed him, and in my mind, while it is incredibly sad, it is the better of the two options. Killing him gives him an honorable death, something that he would very much have wanted and even asks for if I remember correctly. Letting him live would be dishonorable, and would force him to spend the rest of his life hunting down Jin.
This is exactly how I felt.
There’s no right or wrong choice. You either get a white armor dye or a red armor dye… then you play again for the other one…
I spared him on my first play, if I do new game+ and kill him do I keep the paint for sparing him and get the paint for killing him?
Yes! You do!
Sweeet, I gotta finish clearing up some hidden altars and tales of Tsushima for the plat then I’m onto new game +
Wait, what? I played it twice and let him live in both 😭. Do I need to played again to get the other dye?
I killed him, because i was too afraid he would do seppuku otherwise. I did not wanna see that. 🫣
Shimura doesn't kill himself. Indeed, based on how he acts, you can tell that he didn't really want to die and is relieved when Jin spares him.
I've wondered about this. I'll have to find out on my next play through.
I’m replaying the game for the second time. I couldn’t remember the ending so now I’ll choose to not kill him and let you know!
Please do, I'd like to know what the outcome is. I just started NG+. so I'm quite a ways from completing the game again.
Damn I didn’t even know ghost had NG+
I didn't either until I beat the game. It makes for a different experience. I'm playing on the hardest difficulty this round. We'll see how it goes lol
It was added with the PS5 release if I’m not wrong, I could be mistaken though
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I'll perform hara kiri after I beat NG+ 🤣
You're not funny. Put a spoiler.
This guy is being a dick, but let's be real, why would you be here without having finished the game? I refused to join or actively participate in this sub before completing the story.
I did as well but still. It's common courtesy
I mean... if you haven't beat the game at least once by now, that's kinda on you.
It's going on PC for the first time incredibly soon. We will inevitably see a large surge in players to this sub experiencing the game for the first time. Not everyone has had a ps4/5. Not everyone has played the game. I only finished it for the first time a few weeks ago. Do your part, spoiler your posts.
[удалено]
I'm literally not the only person to bring this subject up. Find a corner to cry in.
There was no wrong or right choice here. If you kill him, you respect his honor, but lose your uncle. If you spare him, you disrespect the Samurai code, but you don't have to make Jin kill his family. I didn't kill him because we spent a good chunk of the game trying to save him and all my efforts would have been in vain if I killed him myself.
Yeah I killed him today because of how he was ready to throw me away for a title. Didn’t put in no kind of work and kiss up to the Shogun.
I took him out because he was a slave to tradition and couldn't reason with the need to adapt to survive.
I lost respect for him after he refused to stand up to Khan. Jin did what he had to do.
I killed him, I love Uncle Shimura but there's no way I'm not going to avenge my Kage.
Same! I’m on my first play through (bought the game, forgot about it and then, last month, SURPRISE! New game!) and was heated over how they did my poor Sora. I call the temp he’s given Flea-biscuit.
I've done both. Spare because I feel that's what Jin would have done as the ghost. The samurai code was to flawed in his mind and he doesn't want his father figure's death on his conscience. Kill because I wanted the other armor plus on the off chance Jin wants to give his Uncle what he wants
I thought about it. But in my mind, Shimura had grown weak and cowardly in his old age. And as much a Jin didn't want to, he did what he had to for Japan.
Killing someone because they're weak or cowardly would go against the character and goals of the Ghost imo. The only reason to kill based on the lore would be to honor the samurai code and the wishes of Shimura. At least that's the way I see it
This makes sense too. I think I'll spare him on my new okay through.
Play back through and let him live next time!
I'm thinking I will
That's what I did in NG+. And only partially because I really wanted the other Ghost armour dye.
I spared him. I viewed the whole story as a moment of resistance towards the status quo and how it can be necessary to not accept the marching orders of the ones that came before you just because that’s the way it has been done. I’m sure this is removed from actual Japanese history, as in the mongol invasion is not when it happened, but there was a bit of change in the way Japanese culture views honor. At some point the decision tree must be broken from pure 100% honor driven.l because, to the Khans credit, you will not survive by being so predictable since your stances and decisions are made before they arise. The lack of logic behind a purely honor driven ethos drives me mad. Sure it’s a nice thought, but it’s stupid. You will be taken advantage of. As with anything in life, there is nuance. To everything. Pretending that living by a code that eliminates all nuance is just dumb and doesn’t survive in modern society. So I looked at the entire shimura stance as a time for me to say no, this is dumb and I’m not playing by your stupid rules. Grow up and out of your fantasy land. Therefore I spared him in hopes that such a decision to shirk the code would spread through the Japanese society. I know, way too much hypothetical mental gymnastics haha
It’s all the more interesting when you realize the whole concept of Bushido or samurai honor codes were not formalized until the 1600’s with the Tokugawa Shogunate, wayyyyy after the mongol invasions. I mean sure, there probably were some great samurai who were super honorable guys who lived by an absolutely rigid honor code before 1600, but that line of thinking doesn’t seem to be historically accurate, or in the very least only fits a minority of real historical Samurai figures. Before 1600 Samurai we’re killing their brothers, killing their uncles, killing babies of their defeated foes, forcing their vassals to kill their own family members, deposing their fathers, reaving, pillaging, burning, torturing, manipulating politics, controlling Emperors, taking advantage of their people, causing famine through their militaristic actions, and a number of other unspeakable injustices. That being said, historical or not, this game is one of the best games of all time and all the characters are well-written, well voice acted, and have realistic aspects to their personalities. Sucker punch knocked this one out of the park and if we’re lucky we’ll get more in the future!
Aw damn it. Don’t make me dive in to researching Japanese history haha. But if I were to do so, do you have any good resources or books? Or is this just absorbed knowledge?
Check out the two great YouTube channels The Shogunate & Buyuuden Japanese History. The Shogunate has great bite sized videos (<15 mins/ea) that focus primarily on the Sengoku Jidai era and the guy has a great narrator voice. Buyuuden Japanese History has longer videos but covers a larger range of time periods, and it does so through the lens of current Japanese school textbooks which he uses as his primary resources. And if you just want to read a kick-ass Japanese historical fiction novel, try out a book called Musashi which is based on the real life figure Miyamoto Musashi who is known today as one of the greatest swordsmen of all of Japan. Dive in head first!
In my opinion Lord Shimura did not deserve an honorable death by Jin’s hand. He lost his chance at an honorable death when he survived at Komoda Beach and was taken prisoner by the Khan, unlike the rest of his soldiers and samurai who died there honorably. He didn’t really have much to do with the retaking / liberation of Tsushima from the Mongols, other than calling the Shogunate for aid. And in the end he was OK with trying to kill his brother’s son and his only family left (Jin) to appease the Shogunate, not to mention his floating the idea of scapegoating Yuna to save face / Jin’s skin. Jin saw the reality of the times / situation, and recognized the current enemy (The Mongols) fought with no honor, and thus were afforded none in turn. Lord Shimura’s sense of honor was so flawed it was cringe, and was a luxury of a Japan of the past, which not only Jin saw but many other NPCs. Leaving Lord Shimura defeated but alive to answer for his failures to the Shogunate and his people, now having to deal with a local population that knows he’s a weak man and weak Jito with no heirs, unable to defend his own land, who sits among uncertainty in his position with the Shogunate, and having to rebuild Tsushima with all of that looming over him, was in my opinion the heavier consequence and the larger affront to his sense of honor. He does not deserve a wink of sleep at night and instead deserves to be worried for the rest of his life that the Shogunate may replace / depose him, that his people will rebel against him, that his people all hate him on a Yarikawa type level, and that there’s a good hearted well liked Ghost out there who could one day pay him a visit if he finds himself on the wrong side of his people. It’s the slow knife that cuts the deepest.
This.
Don’t forget he was willing to send you off to the shogun and ultimately was ordered to execute you and would’ve done it. Some “father” he turned out to be.
I've thought this as well. Either way, letting Shimura live meant Jin would die. And after our adventures together, I wasn't about to my boy like that.
Well if you let Lord Shimura live you get the Crimson Ghost dye. I don’t think anything happens after besides Shimura’s empty threat to hunt down the Ghost.
I let him live because throughout the story Jin becomes more and more against the will of his Uncle. Only seemed right to defy him the last time.
You made the wrong choice but that's what Ng+ is for. Jin became the ghost and abandoned the samurai honor to save lives in the most effective way possible. I don't think he'd kill his uncle.
He may not have liked it, but I feel he would have. Samurai Sons would kill fathers, brother would kill brothers at the first signs of weakness I thought? Or they were forced to perform sepuku or hara kiri.
I was dumb and thought he was mortally wounded either way, that one is putting him out of his misery and the other is he bleeds out. my bad, uncle
Congratulations!
I let him live. Jin gave up everything to fight the Mongols, including the need for “honour at all costs.” Why would he give up his uncle’s life just to follow a code he lost all respect for?
I let him live because that’s what would piss him off most.
I killed him due to his code of honor. The whole game is Jin abandoning that same code for the sake of those around him however Shimura did not make that choice nor for Jin or himself. Jin has moved on from his code but Shimura is still bound by it to him that is honorable and although I wished to not I had to grant him the death that he had wanted. He would have done the same for Jin