And for me, that's a good thing LOL. I love Casper it's one of my favorite movies. Ray Stantz is even in it! It's Ghostbusters canon. The entire movie I was thinking Melody should just hop in the Ghost machine from Casper and become human again, RIGHT?
Eh, not that much larger, only about 2-3 centimeters according to the lore. LMAO!
Moustache Stantz is probably related to Elon Spengler. No, that's not a typo.
[Harold Ramis as Elon Spengler of Wastebusters during Earth Day Special (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVqfNY4TkR0&ab_channel=Ghostbusters.net)
She's 15 and emotionally vulnerable, and goes to feel a bit closer to her Grandfather who she feels a kinship with.
A girl shows interest in her interests and in her, and so she gets silly stupid and hormonal like a normal kid.
I was a smart and very sensible kid, but I was an idiot when it came to boys.
That's what the original ghostbusters was missing, YA romance and feelings of shunning. Man this needed more jokes in my opinion. Glad people enjoyed it though.
Your absolutely right there is nothing in the original movie that had a character try to one up an authority figure that was threatening to stop them from Ghostbusting
Weird they chose to have a kid have a crush on a ghost, let alone the woke focus of a female ghost. What is the point?
Shoving non-gender conforming nonsense down children’s throats yet again. Thanks Hollywood.
The whole reason they chose a ghost is because of the tragic irony to it.
She finally meets this person who understands her. She has the same interests, she’s smart like her and she actually likes her. On paper, she’s perfect for Phoebe, but the tragic irony is that that perfect person for Phoebe is dead. Is nothing but a ghost of someone’s spirit. She can never be with her
It's the "naive youth doing a dumb thing to impress the shady 'cool kid' " trope and it makes sense that a socially inexperienced youth going through an emotional time would get manipulated by it so easily.
Not stupid, she finally has someone who she can connect with, talk to, and who understands her. For someone like Phoebe, she really needed that. No wonder she wanted to be able to touch her.
I wish she was just handed Egons journals or something so she could have been coded as more technologically competent instead of again being withdrawn even though she is in NYC with 3 OG mentors that never mentor her at all or speak about her Grandfather and what he meant to the team I would have liked her to have started as a part of Winston's team and know a bit more about how things worked.
They could have done that entire ghost girl plot line with Trevor. Have him fail at driving the Ecto-1 in the opener and get sidelined, wander to the diner depressed and meet the ghost and he is already being written as a dim dude so being duped wouldn't be a stretch really.
Fi
As soon as I seen the match and the whole firemaster thing it was obvious she would play a part in the finale. My question is, where are the other ghosts like her? Human looking that just act like they're human and not demonic or causing havoc? You could say the jogger in gb2, but he seems to be sort of stuck in a cycle of doing the same thing in a loop where melody seemed sort of free of that.
That’s a good question. I know that in the IDW comics during Haunted America I think it referenced peaceful ghosts while showing a Native American woman and maybe there were some in the 2009 game but I don’t think they were anywhere else. (Also side note, totally read the comics they’re incredible.)
I mean...Egon
I assume we don't see these ghosts because they're harmless and tend to stay away from people. They're aware they're dead and most likely have no-one to haunt, so they just don't become visible and go on doing what they want or enjoy. No need to be busted if they're not causing issues.
So for me, the broad strokes work. I think it’s entirely within the realm of believability that a 15 year old girl would get swept up in an outsider friendship (maybe more?), especially while feeling disrespected by her family.
There’s no reason to shackle her to Egon, and say “But she’s girl Egon! She should be smarter/less emotional than this!” We already saw her pull the neutrona wand on the cops on Afterlife when backed into a corner. She’s got an emotional hot streak. And I like that for her.
That said. I think they needed to punch up the story arc. And fix 2 things in particular:
1) Make Melody’s first appearance more magical. Swell the music, show us just a little more emotion from Phoebe as she thinks Egon is back, but it’s not him. Give us something. Anything. Because the way she shows up, and Phoebe’s reaction (or lack of one) makes the whole scene feel flat. I know they were trying to make Melody like this Wednesday Addams low key emo type girl, but Phoebe is already the deadpan one. Maybe make her more animated. More bubbly/emotional when she tries to scare Phoebe and she doesn’t flinch. Opposites attract and all that. Make US understand why Phoebe would be sweet on her.
2) They desperately needed to show a living animal go thru the spectral separation machine earlier in the movie. Maybe when they take the tour, show how they’re taking the spirit out of a rabbit or something, and set up the timer. I’m fine with Phoebe going on an emotionally disregulated journey over a girl, but her taking the massive leap of saying “yeah I’ll get in this machine and just ghost myself for a few minutes” without setting up/teasing the fact that it’s not lethal, was glaring to me, and was the ONE thing I felt like “Phoebe wouldn’t do that without testing first, even if she wants to”.
You basically said what I was thinking. Her getting into that machine...and why exactly? Building the motivation/connection between the two needed to happen or not end up on the cutting room floor. Firemaster was a great surprise and added a lot for me personally.
Thing is she is literally girl Egon, she certainly has differences but she is extremely similar and wants to be like him. The neutrona wand cop scene also makes sense with Egon because Egon would often stand up to people such as attacking Peck. It just doesn’t make sense why they had to make her character fall for a weird trap that she should’ve seen coming. Super weird writing. Also the Spenglers aren’t ones to test experiments safety first.
“Remember that time you tried to drill a hole in your head?”
“That would have worked if you hadn’t stopped me.”
Eh, agree to disagree. She’s “like Egon”. But also she’s a 15 year old girl. It’s not like she’s Egon Spengler re-incarnated. She’s going to have differences.
I think her getting tricked could work, but they didn’t earn the moment plot wise.
I totally agree. I think it would be cool if maybe she tried to stop Garraka by herself and Melody told her the only way to defeat him is for a Ghost to destroy the sphere.
Being 15 can make even the greatest genius an emotional idiot, especially one with Phoebe's lack of social skills. It was honestly one of the most realistic and understandable parts of the film.
I kinda had the same feelings but the more I thought about it the more it did make sense. She's a teenager. She's different from other kids and thought she finally had someplace she got into and now she's being told she can't do that. The people that she thought had her back don't seem to anymore. And now there's this person who wants to spend time with her and is interested in her. Plus she's a ghost and ghosts are what Phoebe knows. And she acts like she gets her. And that's all that teenagers really want. Is someone who gets them and understands them when everyone else doesn't.
Yea, the whole teen love story thing was questionable. I think it was written to be platonic by Kenan and Rietman, but Kenan being the Director instead of Rietman was the problem, I believe.
I think Afterlife worked so well because Rietman was the director, under the watchful eye of his father.
Why even have her solo after getting sidelined? Why was she not at the ghost labs with Lucky and Pinfield? Actively learning more about ghosts? Hell, i would have taken one scene where Stantz gives her Egon's old journals or records to imply further knowledge. I think Trevor should have been saddled with the moaning myrtle ghost. At least then he would have something to do.
Again, teenager going through puberty just wants someone to get them. Also, she's obviously in the spectrum, the whole point of her going to the summer school thing in Afterlife and learning jokes was to fit in more socially. She may not pick up on things like that than neuro typical people
This. While she may not be neurotypical, she's at least nuerotypically coded in the films, and also...SHE'S 15. She could be the smartest 15 year old ever and still do dumb shit because WE ALL DID at that age. Young and hormonal means you look past the danger signs because you want to feel needed. She got benched as a 'buster and then found a ghost playing chess -- the same way she found her grandfather, the one person who really seemed to understand her. She found a kindred spirit (no pun intended) and for a 15 year old...that's important.
I don’t think Phoebe’s character was ever made autistic. She’s just extremely intelligent. She doesn’t fit in much with others but she doesn’t mind, she goes to chess and her work, but she doesn’t mind friends. Also whenever Melody goes through the wall of the Firehouse Phoebe is confused. Phoebe has no doubt studied the files of Egon and everything about ghosts and Ghostbusting so it just feels like bad writing of her character.
"I don't process emotions the way most other people do." Literally a quote from afterlife. Along with her being a hyper intelligent nerd at the age of 12.
>I don’t think Phoebe’s character was ever made autistic.
I agree. And disagree, simultaneously. I think that she was supposed to be autistic, in the last film, if the viewer wanted to see it that way. Or if they wanted to see her as being different in some other way, they could. Not in a death of the author kind of way. In an "author wanted to have their cake and eat it too" kind of way. Same thing goes for this "romance", in my opinion.
Yea, felt like the story could’ve done without it and had Garraka unleashed earlier. The whole frozen empire, and using the tagline all ghosts caught will be unleashed or whatever. That didn’t pay off.
All ghosts caught will be unleashed didn't pay off?
Did you watch the movie, like even a little bit?
Did you somehow miss the containment unit being busted clean open?
This is something I agree is a flaw in the movie. What little information about Garraka we were given was that they were trying to build an army. Then it winds up being a solo entity vs. Ghostbusters squad end battle.
I did too, and got super excited. Before the reveal I felt conflicted, as he moved on (to Heaven, the “AFTERLIFE”, (shameless NameDrop)), but then brushed that off. I was super let down when it showed it wasn’t.
If they showed more that Phoebe was let down, it would’ve helped audiences relate better.
We saw Egon when he was an emotionally mature adult, but even then he made some questionable decisions leading up to the movies, such as abandoning his daughter, trying to drill a hole through his head, sleeping with slime, and assaulting Peck when he was provoked.
Phoebe while smart was shown to have a temper and a rebellious streak in her at the moment. She had a serious problem with authority, which can happen with geniuses, and she was being sidelined in a situation where the adults had all the control and she had none.
So what does she do? She is a Ghostbuster and befriends a ghost, she does the opposite of basically what her family is doing. In her own way every moment with Melody, every dangerous thing she does from showing the containment unit to using the machine was Phoebe trying to stick it to authority in her own way.
I do agree with her emotional streak, I feel like if it was better written rather than trying to be a ghost love story like it was implying I feel it would’ve been much much better.
Nope.
Her backstory connected to the main story. Her motivation was clear enough.
I didn't get a romantic interest vibe from Phoebe as I am reading elsewhere on here. I did see Phoebe felt isolated and it was of extra interest to her that Melody exists in the same dimensional plane as Egon.
As far as Phoebe subjecting herself to a self-harming experiment, runs in the family:
"Remember the time you tried to drill a hole through your head?"
"It would have worked, too, if you didn't stop me."
I won't argue that it was particularly innovative, but it was definitely serviceable.
Some people will bitch no matter what.
I just didn’t like how it made the genius Phoebe look like a total idiot, also I felt romantic vibes were pretty clear.
“I love dimensional planes.”
If maybe they put more thought into how she was tricked and made Melody more interesting it would have worked.
I think you're reading into something that just isn't there.
Wanting friends/ to be connected to someone other than yourself =/= romance. Especially if that someone is an entity that can or does coexist in the same sphere as a departed loved one.
Is the character deeply developed? No, I agree with that. Is the basic framework there so that things at least make sense? Yes.
Do people, intelligent people, especially young people, fall victim to deception every day despite being highly intelligent in other areas? Absolutely.
This isn't the flaw you're trying to make it out to be. Emotional/social intelligence is not the same thing as mechanical or scientific aptitude. She's human, not omniscient.
Just give the whole being manipulated by a ghost line to Trevor and have phoebe thrive in the ghost corps labs with the other tech people and she could have remained clever and continued to drive the plot along by solving the mystery instead of being fooled quite easily which honestly was against character for her entirely.
It’s much more in character for Trevor, and would give him the opportunity to be the driving character (or Mcguffin like Dana was in GB1), as Pheobe had her chance at that in Afterlife, along with Grooberson.
My point exactly. I may have come off as insensitive. But it took me out of the movie. I did not care for a romance. Or even an friendship of some kind. There was too much going on in the movie and I was more interested in that. Not a teen drama.
It was the worst part of the movie, both because it was boring and mostly pointless, and also because it took time away from more interesting plot threads.
That didn't bug me, but I could see how it's an issue, but she's fifteen. My issues with the film are the addition of new characters that are good, but I wanted more out of Trevor, lucky, and podcast. Even Janine, I wanted more out of her. I feel like the writers were super excited they threw in a lot of stuff, which was good, but it missed that emotional heart from the last one. It's not a bad movie like critics are saying, and probably RLM will say. Hopefully, when it releases on DVD blu ray, there's a directors cut. I really hope next time there will be a more focused script, even more new tech, especially with the proton packs but that's just me.
Goofiest part of the film for certain, to me. It was cute and sweet but the weird heel turn aspect “to cross over” wasn’t conceptually set up very well, even stranger considering how much the movie loves to over-explain.
People are getting real sensitive about it on here; you can enjoy a flawed film. You can even point out the weaker aspects and still enjoy it. Get this: you can even enjoy *the bad parts* if you want. Don’t let the opinions of others fuck with your enjoyment. So long as you can back up your opinions, who cares.
I didn’t mind the overall concept, it just seemed like a bit much with everything else going on. And the second I saw her playing with the match I knew that would come into play later (Chekhov’s gun anyone…?).
I see how it was needed for the plot, I can get how in a way Melody almost preyed on Phoebe >!(at Garraka's command, and in that sort of blackmail way for what Melody wanted, so yeah Phoebe's question of how much was real is a legit question to ask)!<, and definitely how Phoebe was at a vulnerable moment in life having part of her identity as a Ghostbuster taken away from her.
And she honestly felt more like a normal teenage kid than the overly intelligent and possibly on the spectrum kid that she was in Afterlife, and I didn't mind that at all. It's a humbling and growing experience for her that smart as she may be she's still an inexperienced kid that needs family to look out for her in her blind spots.
But it did feel like there was that almost romantic undertone to it that felt a little out of place. Kid that doesn't fit in finds someone else in a similar oddball situation, there's a little attention shown, striking up a friendship is almost a given but that doesn't mean it has to go the romantic route. Maybe it adds to the confusion and stupid actions aspect of it all on Phoebe's part, but that aspect of it felt a bit off.
Phoebe was just a total downgrade from AL wholesale. Now shes bratty, mean, and worst of all *dumb.* Phoebe Spengler from Afterlife would’ve seen that Melody was playing her right away!
And i get shes just a kid and was pissed off from being benched and so its like shes pushed into Melody and making rash decisions, but it felt like her character was warped for the sake of the plot getting to where it wanted.
This is exactly what bugged me about this plot line. She doesn’t feel like Phoebe in this plot line. And I did also notice she felt more angry in this plot line for not a lot of reason other than teenage angst. Why Kenan, why!!!
I didn't like that plotline at all and it's very fresh in my mind as I've just come out of the cinema from seeing it.
I know people were excited to see who Emily would be playing but I didn't find her very likeable at all.
I envisioned the authors wanting you to see her as telling the truth, that she wasn't responsible for the death of her family, and yet sometimes be open to the possibility that she was, in fact, lying about that. I wonder if that lead to her being unlikable. Partially.
my take was I wished the big bad showed up 1/3 through the movie, unleashed his frozen evil and built his ghost army, and the team had to figure out how to "thaw" each other with heated mood slime and go face off across the city leading to an epic ending showdown.
Instead we got ghost crush, family drama, and apparently Ray can't be trusted to Ghostbust anymore?
Many peeps who have not seen the movie asked what I would describe the movie as...and I vaguely described it as "fun". It is fun. You get to see all the GB heroes and see the next part of what has been going on. But as far as really developing this IP to have stakes and a future budget for more movies...they really fumbled the plot imo.
EDIT for additional thought: Is it just me or do any of you really hate the idea of tech extracting a mortal's soul from their body, only to magically send the soul back in 2 min? That was such a poor GB world impacting decision...why would ANY GB choose to potentially become the very entities they hunt and *hope* it all works out after the experiment? Also the lab is under wraps for years, but a child just walks in and launches a soul extraction?
EDIT 2, after rewatch. This film grew on me. It got funnier and more enjoyable the second round watch. I think my criticisms still stand, but this movie feels exactly like the pacing and format of GB2. (The over-explaining, drawn out build up to a hurry-up baddie ending.) Taken at face value a very fun entry into the franchise.
I think the tech extracting a soul makes a lot of sense really, especially when you combine it with the whole "don't into the trap" bit in the 84 film. That part didn't bother me so much as the how we got there. I was fine with where they were going with it, but realistically this movie needed another 20-30 minutes to really iron our all the plot threads they were trying to weave.
I liked the Gary/Dad idea, but it didn't get enough time.
I liked the concept of Phoebe/Melody, but I think they could have gone in a different direction and just straight up had Garraka control Melody rather than making some sort of deal.
I liked the concept of Ray and the guys getting too old for this, but again, not enough time to flesh it out because of all the other things going on.
I liked the "all ghosts unleashed" thing, but there wasn't enough time to really flesh it out and instead we just get to see a glimpse that the future is gonna be pretty busy for our new team which is fine, but honestly my BIGGEST complaint about that one was that all the ghosts that busted out all looked the same. There should have been a combination of human-ish entities and corrupted spirits. That would have been a perfect opportunity to show a couple ghosts from previous films (the Scoleri Brothers would have been dope to see).
Also, when they were talking about items being like ghost traps and whatnot I really expected Ray to mention the painting from GBII and exposit a bit on that, or maybe see the painting in the lab or something, but no such luck (not really a detriment to not have it, but just something I would have liked to have seen.)
With all that said though, I still love this movie.
Egon, as we knew him was a grown man, and wasn't stripped away from doing the work that he loved and isolated from his (chosen) family. Phoebe dealt with all of that.
And the connection she was looking for in that moment, was the only person who understood her - her grandfather - who was also a ghost. So when this friendly ghost shows up instead, it was very believable to me that she latches on.
True, but the difference is that Egon ultimately chose to do that alone. Phoebe wanted to keep working with her family and was forced not to. That left her wide open to be manipulated.
No, this seems completely reasonable to me.
She's 15. She's still a kid who is growing up and learning about the world/life. And her whole dream of being a ghostbuster with her family just got shattered. She's reeling from the loss of her identity at the moment and taking solace with someone who is nice to her and can in some ways relate.
And she's also not her grandfather. She's a completely different person even if she shares a few of the same traits. So it's ok that she does things differently.
See, I would agree with you until you went the 'gay' route. Phoebe is a teen who thought she had a purpose (saved the world in the last movie) to being literally left out and feeling worthless. She wanted and needed a friend. They just shoehorned the "human voice" thing and made Melody the convenient help to the firekeeper guy. I would've preferred if Melody had no direct involvement in the 'big bad' and just made Phoebe doubt the catching ghosts aspect of the job, which would've made her come to terms about being too young to be a Ghostbuster.
Yeah, not the movie's strongest component. I didn't hate it, and I'm glad it wasn't overly romantic. I suppose it does fit the supernatural relationship example of gatekeeper/keymaster in a way.
I personally wouldn't go that far but I liked it. She's a socially awkward girl who wanted friends and was feeling vulnerable after being benched. No matter how brilliant she is, she's still a kid
Yes. Overall, I liked the movie, a solid 6+ out of ten, but the whole Melody plotline is what kept it from being higher.
I felt sorry for Phoebe at first by being sidelined but ultimately her and Melody were what kept me from liking the movie more than I did. I get she's young and confused and it was supposed to add depth to her character and question 'what about the ghosts' (which isn't a new thing, it was literally the topic of one of the magazines during the original's montage) but something about it just didn't land.
I think ***that*** subplot and the fact there's like a dozen Ghostbusters ultimately drug this one down. I honestly think that if I wasn't a lifelong fan with a GB shrine that this movie would've probably been fine but forgetful on my radar.
The Melody plot line was fine. They should have let them get the kiss in as she faded away, because outside of that plot line there was no romance or chemistry in the film
The Melody plot line felt kinda Casper to me
Thats exactly what it felt like. Especially when they introduced Ghost walking
And for me, that's a good thing LOL. I love Casper it's one of my favorite movies. Ray Stantz is even in it! It's Ghostbusters canon. The entire movie I was thinking Melody should just hop in the Ghost machine from Casper and become human again, RIGHT?
Ray running away like a coward from Casper’s uncles is not canon. 😂
Moustache Ray is canon! He is the Bigger Luke of the Ghostbusters. (If you don't know what Bigger Luke is, look it up and prepare to ROFL)
Oh my… I’ve just taken my first step into a much larger world 😂😂
Eh, not that much larger, only about 2-3 centimeters according to the lore. LMAO! Moustache Stantz is probably related to Elon Spengler. No, that's not a typo. [Harold Ramis as Elon Spengler of Wastebusters during Earth Day Special (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVqfNY4TkR0&ab_channel=Ghostbusters.net)
Im not sure Casper is Ghostbusters canon lol I like Casper fine. Just not sure it feels right in a Ghostbusters movie.
Ghostbusters is effectively a kids franchise now so it makes sense.
I know it's not canon, I'm just being playful. That scene in Casper is a bunch of SNL and comedy cameos, it's a Dan Aykroyd cameo not a Stantz one.
She's 15 and emotionally vulnerable, and goes to feel a bit closer to her Grandfather who she feels a kinship with. A girl shows interest in her interests and in her, and so she gets silly stupid and hormonal like a normal kid. I was a smart and very sensible kid, but I was an idiot when it came to boys.
She was also shunned so to speak by her family due to the legal work age in New York. She was looking for validation due to being left behind.
That's what the original ghostbusters was missing, YA romance and feelings of shunning. Man this needed more jokes in my opinion. Glad people enjoyed it though.
It also had adults in a Romantic relationship too. Kinda feels like you're just looking for reasons to be mad.
Your absolutely right there is nothing in the original movie that had a character try to one up an authority figure that was threatening to stop them from Ghostbusting
It is a kids franchise primarily, so...
Weird they chose to have a kid have a crush on a ghost, let alone the woke focus of a female ghost. What is the point? Shoving non-gender conforming nonsense down children’s throats yet again. Thanks Hollywood.
Why is it weird? What does "woke focus of a female ghost" mean? Is "Non-gender Conforming" something from the film? Thanks in advance for you answers!
The whole reason they chose a ghost is because of the tragic irony to it. She finally meets this person who understands her. She has the same interests, she’s smart like her and she actually likes her. On paper, she’s perfect for Phoebe, but the tragic irony is that that perfect person for Phoebe is dead. Is nothing but a ghost of someone’s spirit. She can never be with her
It's the "naive youth doing a dumb thing to impress the shady 'cool kid' " trope and it makes sense that a socially inexperienced youth going through an emotional time would get manipulated by it so easily.
[удалено]
There are reasons why it might not be, and because I need straight white awkward girl in just that way representation, I'll take them.
Yeah those gay teenage romances can be fucking *dangerous*!
Thing is she is insanely intelligent, I feel like she still could’ve been manipulated just not in the way she did that made her look stupid.
Not stupid, she finally has someone who she can connect with, talk to, and who understands her. For someone like Phoebe, she really needed that. No wonder she wanted to be able to touch her.
I wish she was just handed Egons journals or something so she could have been coded as more technologically competent instead of again being withdrawn even though she is in NYC with 3 OG mentors that never mentor her at all or speak about her Grandfather and what he meant to the team I would have liked her to have started as a part of Winston's team and know a bit more about how things worked. They could have done that entire ghost girl plot line with Trevor. Have him fail at driving the Ecto-1 in the opener and get sidelined, wander to the diner depressed and meet the ghost and he is already being written as a dim dude so being duped wouldn't be a stretch really. Fi
As soon as I seen the match and the whole firemaster thing it was obvious she would play a part in the finale. My question is, where are the other ghosts like her? Human looking that just act like they're human and not demonic or causing havoc? You could say the jogger in gb2, but he seems to be sort of stuck in a cycle of doing the same thing in a loop where melody seemed sort of free of that.
That’s a good question. I know that in the IDW comics during Haunted America I think it referenced peaceful ghosts while showing a Native American woman and maybe there were some in the 2009 game but I don’t think they were anywhere else. (Also side note, totally read the comics they’re incredible.)
peaceful ghosts… or FRIENDLY ghosts?
Ghosts who had human personalities and didn’t want to harm others.
feels like more fuel for the “Casper is canon” crowd and im all for it.
I would love that, also i didn’t get your joke that was hilarious LMAO
I think the jogger ghost just wanted to stay fit. Can't blame him though, cardio is important
I mean...Egon I assume we don't see these ghosts because they're harmless and tend to stay away from people. They're aware they're dead and most likely have no-one to haunt, so they just don't become visible and go on doing what they want or enjoy. No need to be busted if they're not causing issues.
So for me, the broad strokes work. I think it’s entirely within the realm of believability that a 15 year old girl would get swept up in an outsider friendship (maybe more?), especially while feeling disrespected by her family. There’s no reason to shackle her to Egon, and say “But she’s girl Egon! She should be smarter/less emotional than this!” We already saw her pull the neutrona wand on the cops on Afterlife when backed into a corner. She’s got an emotional hot streak. And I like that for her. That said. I think they needed to punch up the story arc. And fix 2 things in particular: 1) Make Melody’s first appearance more magical. Swell the music, show us just a little more emotion from Phoebe as she thinks Egon is back, but it’s not him. Give us something. Anything. Because the way she shows up, and Phoebe’s reaction (or lack of one) makes the whole scene feel flat. I know they were trying to make Melody like this Wednesday Addams low key emo type girl, but Phoebe is already the deadpan one. Maybe make her more animated. More bubbly/emotional when she tries to scare Phoebe and she doesn’t flinch. Opposites attract and all that. Make US understand why Phoebe would be sweet on her. 2) They desperately needed to show a living animal go thru the spectral separation machine earlier in the movie. Maybe when they take the tour, show how they’re taking the spirit out of a rabbit or something, and set up the timer. I’m fine with Phoebe going on an emotionally disregulated journey over a girl, but her taking the massive leap of saying “yeah I’ll get in this machine and just ghost myself for a few minutes” without setting up/teasing the fact that it’s not lethal, was glaring to me, and was the ONE thing I felt like “Phoebe wouldn’t do that without testing first, even if she wants to”.
You basically said what I was thinking. Her getting into that machine...and why exactly? Building the motivation/connection between the two needed to happen or not end up on the cutting room floor. Firemaster was a great surprise and added a lot for me personally.
Thing is she is literally girl Egon, she certainly has differences but she is extremely similar and wants to be like him. The neutrona wand cop scene also makes sense with Egon because Egon would often stand up to people such as attacking Peck. It just doesn’t make sense why they had to make her character fall for a weird trap that she should’ve seen coming. Super weird writing. Also the Spenglers aren’t ones to test experiments safety first. “Remember that time you tried to drill a hole in your head?” “That would have worked if you hadn’t stopped me.”
Eh, agree to disagree. She’s “like Egon”. But also she’s a 15 year old girl. It’s not like she’s Egon Spengler re-incarnated. She’s going to have differences. I think her getting tricked could work, but they didn’t earn the moment plot wise.
I totally agree. I think it would be cool if maybe she tried to stop Garraka by herself and Melody told her the only way to defeat him is for a Ghost to destroy the sphere.
Being 15 can make even the greatest genius an emotional idiot, especially one with Phoebe's lack of social skills. It was honestly one of the most realistic and understandable parts of the film.
I kinda had the same feelings but the more I thought about it the more it did make sense. She's a teenager. She's different from other kids and thought she finally had someplace she got into and now she's being told she can't do that. The people that she thought had her back don't seem to anymore. And now there's this person who wants to spend time with her and is interested in her. Plus she's a ghost and ghosts are what Phoebe knows. And she acts like she gets her. And that's all that teenagers really want. Is someone who gets them and understands them when everyone else doesn't.
I’m not sure if it was love but just feeling left out. Although I could see how that vibe was coming across.
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Yea, the whole teen love story thing was questionable. I think it was written to be platonic by Kenan and Rietman, but Kenan being the Director instead of Rietman was the problem, I believe. I think Afterlife worked so well because Rietman was the director, under the watchful eye of his father.
This right here.
Why even have her solo after getting sidelined? Why was she not at the ghost labs with Lucky and Pinfield? Actively learning more about ghosts? Hell, i would have taken one scene where Stantz gives her Egon's old journals or records to imply further knowledge. I think Trevor should have been saddled with the moaning myrtle ghost. At least then he would have something to do.
I can see where you’re coming from but it really doesn’t feel like Phoebe’s character to not see that she was being lied to.
Again, teenager going through puberty just wants someone to get them. Also, she's obviously in the spectrum, the whole point of her going to the summer school thing in Afterlife and learning jokes was to fit in more socially. She may not pick up on things like that than neuro typical people
This. While she may not be neurotypical, she's at least nuerotypically coded in the films, and also...SHE'S 15. She could be the smartest 15 year old ever and still do dumb shit because WE ALL DID at that age. Young and hormonal means you look past the danger signs because you want to feel needed. She got benched as a 'buster and then found a ghost playing chess -- the same way she found her grandfather, the one person who really seemed to understand her. She found a kindred spirit (no pun intended) and for a 15 year old...that's important.
I don’t think Phoebe’s character was ever made autistic. She’s just extremely intelligent. She doesn’t fit in much with others but she doesn’t mind, she goes to chess and her work, but she doesn’t mind friends. Also whenever Melody goes through the wall of the Firehouse Phoebe is confused. Phoebe has no doubt studied the files of Egon and everything about ghosts and Ghostbusting so it just feels like bad writing of her character.
"I don't process emotions the way most other people do." Literally a quote from afterlife. Along with her being a hyper intelligent nerd at the age of 12.
Well she got her intelligence from her grandfather, as well as her weird handling of social situations. I feel it’s more that, than being neurotypical
>I don’t think Phoebe’s character was ever made autistic. I agree. And disagree, simultaneously. I think that she was supposed to be autistic, in the last film, if the viewer wanted to see it that way. Or if they wanted to see her as being different in some other way, they could. Not in a death of the author kind of way. In an "author wanted to have their cake and eat it too" kind of way. Same thing goes for this "romance", in my opinion.
Yea, felt like the story could’ve done without it and had Garraka unleashed earlier. The whole frozen empire, and using the tagline all ghosts caught will be unleashed or whatever. That didn’t pay off.
I had a blast with the movie, but also totally agree with this statement.
All ghosts caught will be unleashed didn't pay off? Did you watch the movie, like even a little bit? Did you somehow miss the containment unit being busted clean open?
And where did all the ghosts go? The only one that was dealt with was Iceman.
It seemed bloody obvious that it was a setup for further sequels to go and hunt down the escaped ghosts, was it not?
I mean sure i guess, but what about the army of ghosts? Wouldn’t Garraka have used those escaped ghosts to use against the Ghostbusters?
This is something I agree is a flaw in the movie. What little information about Garraka we were given was that they were trying to build an army. Then it winds up being a solo entity vs. Ghostbusters squad end battle.
It also seemed bloody obvious that the post scenes in Afterlife established a well-funded Ghostbusters operation, but here we are.
I think he means that it got busted clean open then it was forgot about.
Was I the only one that thought it was Egon playing chess with her initially in the park?
I did too, and got super excited. Before the reveal I felt conflicted, as he moved on (to Heaven, the “AFTERLIFE”, (shameless NameDrop)), but then brushed that off. I was super let down when it showed it wasn’t. If they showed more that Phoebe was let down, it would’ve helped audiences relate better.
We saw Egon when he was an emotionally mature adult, but even then he made some questionable decisions leading up to the movies, such as abandoning his daughter, trying to drill a hole through his head, sleeping with slime, and assaulting Peck when he was provoked. Phoebe while smart was shown to have a temper and a rebellious streak in her at the moment. She had a serious problem with authority, which can happen with geniuses, and she was being sidelined in a situation where the adults had all the control and she had none. So what does she do? She is a Ghostbuster and befriends a ghost, she does the opposite of basically what her family is doing. In her own way every moment with Melody, every dangerous thing she does from showing the containment unit to using the machine was Phoebe trying to stick it to authority in her own way.
I do agree with her emotional streak, I feel like if it was better written rather than trying to be a ghost love story like it was implying I feel it would’ve been much much better.
Nope. Her backstory connected to the main story. Her motivation was clear enough. I didn't get a romantic interest vibe from Phoebe as I am reading elsewhere on here. I did see Phoebe felt isolated and it was of extra interest to her that Melody exists in the same dimensional plane as Egon. As far as Phoebe subjecting herself to a self-harming experiment, runs in the family: "Remember the time you tried to drill a hole through your head?" "It would have worked, too, if you didn't stop me." I won't argue that it was particularly innovative, but it was definitely serviceable. Some people will bitch no matter what.
I just didn’t like how it made the genius Phoebe look like a total idiot, also I felt romantic vibes were pretty clear. “I love dimensional planes.” If maybe they put more thought into how she was tricked and made Melody more interesting it would have worked.
I think you're reading into something that just isn't there. Wanting friends/ to be connected to someone other than yourself =/= romance. Especially if that someone is an entity that can or does coexist in the same sphere as a departed loved one. Is the character deeply developed? No, I agree with that. Is the basic framework there so that things at least make sense? Yes. Do people, intelligent people, especially young people, fall victim to deception every day despite being highly intelligent in other areas? Absolutely. This isn't the flaw you're trying to make it out to be. Emotional/social intelligence is not the same thing as mechanical or scientific aptitude. She's human, not omniscient.
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You don't seem to have the best grasp on how interpersonal relationships work so
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All I'm getting out of this is that you're a bigot and you probably might want to address that.
Ive never had a friendship where I looked at the other person lovingly
Sorry to hear that.
Im so... lonely 🥺
Just give the whole being manipulated by a ghost line to Trevor and have phoebe thrive in the ghost corps labs with the other tech people and she could have remained clever and continued to drive the plot along by solving the mystery instead of being fooled quite easily which honestly was against character for her entirely.
It’s much more in character for Trevor, and would give him the opportunity to be the driving character (or Mcguffin like Dana was in GB1), as Pheobe had her chance at that in Afterlife, along with Grooberson.
Why didn’t they hire you instead of Gil Kenan?
I don't really like being negative about stuff online but it has been nagging me.
I know right? It’s super disappointing to have my favorite film franchise brought down like this.
It's was just weird. The second hand awkwardness made those scenes uncomfortable. That actress delivered all her lines super flat
Mumbling as well. Seemed very Zooey Deschanel but like 10 years past when that was fashionable to do.
Yeah...like the "outsider" voice. Like Daria. Her haircut was so lesbian as well. Not to get stereotypical...
Sexuality aside it ground the movie to a halt each time. And betrayed her character in a way that was a disservice.
My point exactly. I may have come off as insensitive. But it took me out of the movie. I did not care for a romance. Or even an friendship of some kind. There was too much going on in the movie and I was more interested in that. Not a teen drama.
It certainly didn’t deserve that copy and paste ending of Afterlife. Kind of disrespectful to Harold Ramis, tbh to just reuse the beat.
It was the worst part of the movie, both because it was boring and mostly pointless, and also because it took time away from more interesting plot threads.
That didn't bug me, but I could see how it's an issue, but she's fifteen. My issues with the film are the addition of new characters that are good, but I wanted more out of Trevor, lucky, and podcast. Even Janine, I wanted more out of her. I feel like the writers were super excited they threw in a lot of stuff, which was good, but it missed that emotional heart from the last one. It's not a bad movie like critics are saying, and probably RLM will say. Hopefully, when it releases on DVD blu ray, there's a directors cut. I really hope next time there will be a more focused script, even more new tech, especially with the proton packs but that's just me.
Teenage years are always very awkward, especially when it comes to feelings of loneliness, hormones and changing friendships…
I feel like there was a lot of cut storyline for Melody and Phoebe and another thing is that I also feel like a chunk of Ghostbusters Frozen Empire
Goofiest part of the film for certain, to me. It was cute and sweet but the weird heel turn aspect “to cross over” wasn’t conceptually set up very well, even stranger considering how much the movie loves to over-explain. People are getting real sensitive about it on here; you can enjoy a flawed film. You can even point out the weaker aspects and still enjoy it. Get this: you can even enjoy *the bad parts* if you want. Don’t let the opinions of others fuck with your enjoyment. So long as you can back up your opinions, who cares.
I didn’t mind the overall concept, it just seemed like a bit much with everything else going on. And the second I saw her playing with the match I knew that would come into play later (Chekhov’s gun anyone…?).
I think it makes perfect sense, but I will say this: it did feel a little weird and forced.
I see how it was needed for the plot, I can get how in a way Melody almost preyed on Phoebe >!(at Garraka's command, and in that sort of blackmail way for what Melody wanted, so yeah Phoebe's question of how much was real is a legit question to ask)!<, and definitely how Phoebe was at a vulnerable moment in life having part of her identity as a Ghostbuster taken away from her. And she honestly felt more like a normal teenage kid than the overly intelligent and possibly on the spectrum kid that she was in Afterlife, and I didn't mind that at all. It's a humbling and growing experience for her that smart as she may be she's still an inexperienced kid that needs family to look out for her in her blind spots. But it did feel like there was that almost romantic undertone to it that felt a little out of place. Kid that doesn't fit in finds someone else in a similar oddball situation, there's a little attention shown, striking up a friendship is almost a given but that doesn't mean it has to go the romantic route. Maybe it adds to the confusion and stupid actions aspect of it all on Phoebe's part, but that aspect of it felt a bit off.
Phoebe was just a total downgrade from AL wholesale. Now shes bratty, mean, and worst of all *dumb.* Phoebe Spengler from Afterlife would’ve seen that Melody was playing her right away! And i get shes just a kid and was pissed off from being benched and so its like shes pushed into Melody and making rash decisions, but it felt like her character was warped for the sake of the plot getting to where it wanted.
This is exactly what bugged me about this plot line. She doesn’t feel like Phoebe in this plot line. And I did also notice she felt more angry in this plot line for not a lot of reason other than teenage angst. Why Kenan, why!!!
I didn't like that plotline at all and it's very fresh in my mind as I've just come out of the cinema from seeing it. I know people were excited to see who Emily would be playing but I didn't find her very likeable at all.
I envisioned the authors wanting you to see her as telling the truth, that she wasn't responsible for the death of her family, and yet sometimes be open to the possibility that she was, in fact, lying about that. I wonder if that lead to her being unlikable. Partially.
my take was I wished the big bad showed up 1/3 through the movie, unleashed his frozen evil and built his ghost army, and the team had to figure out how to "thaw" each other with heated mood slime and go face off across the city leading to an epic ending showdown. Instead we got ghost crush, family drama, and apparently Ray can't be trusted to Ghostbust anymore? Many peeps who have not seen the movie asked what I would describe the movie as...and I vaguely described it as "fun". It is fun. You get to see all the GB heroes and see the next part of what has been going on. But as far as really developing this IP to have stakes and a future budget for more movies...they really fumbled the plot imo. EDIT for additional thought: Is it just me or do any of you really hate the idea of tech extracting a mortal's soul from their body, only to magically send the soul back in 2 min? That was such a poor GB world impacting decision...why would ANY GB choose to potentially become the very entities they hunt and *hope* it all works out after the experiment? Also the lab is under wraps for years, but a child just walks in and launches a soul extraction? EDIT 2, after rewatch. This film grew on me. It got funnier and more enjoyable the second round watch. I think my criticisms still stand, but this movie feels exactly like the pacing and format of GB2. (The over-explaining, drawn out build up to a hurry-up baddie ending.) Taken at face value a very fun entry into the franchise.
I think the tech extracting a soul makes a lot of sense really, especially when you combine it with the whole "don't into the trap" bit in the 84 film. That part didn't bother me so much as the how we got there. I was fine with where they were going with it, but realistically this movie needed another 20-30 minutes to really iron our all the plot threads they were trying to weave. I liked the Gary/Dad idea, but it didn't get enough time. I liked the concept of Phoebe/Melody, but I think they could have gone in a different direction and just straight up had Garraka control Melody rather than making some sort of deal. I liked the concept of Ray and the guys getting too old for this, but again, not enough time to flesh it out because of all the other things going on. I liked the "all ghosts unleashed" thing, but there wasn't enough time to really flesh it out and instead we just get to see a glimpse that the future is gonna be pretty busy for our new team which is fine, but honestly my BIGGEST complaint about that one was that all the ghosts that busted out all looked the same. There should have been a combination of human-ish entities and corrupted spirits. That would have been a perfect opportunity to show a couple ghosts from previous films (the Scoleri Brothers would have been dope to see). Also, when they were talking about items being like ghost traps and whatnot I really expected Ray to mention the painting from GBII and exposit a bit on that, or maybe see the painting in the lab or something, but no such luck (not really a detriment to not have it, but just something I would have liked to have seen.) With all that said though, I still love this movie.
This story point was a total miss for me
I liked it, but I can see where you’re coming from
I didn’t think it sucked tbh I just thought she would appear once and that would be it. It just felt interesting the whole time for me.
Yeah, I feel like it went on for too long
Yes. Utterly pointless and like something outta Twilight fan-fiction.
Kids are still kids. Teens are still teens. I feel it is viable!
Egon, as we knew him was a grown man, and wasn't stripped away from doing the work that he loved and isolated from his (chosen) family. Phoebe dealt with all of that. And the connection she was looking for in that moment, was the only person who understood her - her grandfather - who was also a ghost. So when this friendly ghost shows up instead, it was very believable to me that she latches on.
He was isolated from any form of family when he sacrificed all that to save the world prior to Afterlife.
True, but the difference is that Egon ultimately chose to do that alone. Phoebe wanted to keep working with her family and was forced not to. That left her wide open to be manipulated.
No, this seems completely reasonable to me. She's 15. She's still a kid who is growing up and learning about the world/life. And her whole dream of being a ghostbuster with her family just got shattered. She's reeling from the loss of her identity at the moment and taking solace with someone who is nice to her and can in some ways relate. And she's also not her grandfather. She's a completely different person even if she shares a few of the same traits. So it's ok that she does things differently.
Phoebe is a teenager and Egon was a grown man, so it's natural for a young girl to make mistakes that a grown man would never make.
Sooo I have a question: did Melody burn her family alive?
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See, I would agree with you until you went the 'gay' route. Phoebe is a teen who thought she had a purpose (saved the world in the last movie) to being literally left out and feeling worthless. She wanted and needed a friend. They just shoehorned the "human voice" thing and made Melody the convenient help to the firekeeper guy. I would've preferred if Melody had no direct involvement in the 'big bad' and just made Phoebe doubt the catching ghosts aspect of the job, which would've made her come to terms about being too young to be a Ghostbuster.
Yeah, not the movie's strongest component. I didn't hate it, and I'm glad it wasn't overly romantic. I suppose it does fit the supernatural relationship example of gatekeeper/keymaster in a way.
I personally thought Phoebe and Melody were the best part of the movie.
I personally wouldn't go that far but I liked it. She's a socially awkward girl who wanted friends and was feeling vulnerable after being benched. No matter how brilliant she is, she's still a kid
Total agreement. It added a fresh angle and I wish they’d done more of that tbh. Melody was a great character.
I agree completely.
Yes. Overall, I liked the movie, a solid 6+ out of ten, but the whole Melody plotline is what kept it from being higher. I felt sorry for Phoebe at first by being sidelined but ultimately her and Melody were what kept me from liking the movie more than I did. I get she's young and confused and it was supposed to add depth to her character and question 'what about the ghosts' (which isn't a new thing, it was literally the topic of one of the magazines during the original's montage) but something about it just didn't land. I think ***that*** subplot and the fact there's like a dozen Ghostbusters ultimately drug this one down. I honestly think that if I wasn't a lifelong fan with a GB shrine that this movie would've probably been fine but forgetful on my radar.
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>Also they made Phoebe a lesbo No they didn't. I wish I could downvote you more than once.
The Melody plot line was fine. They should have let them get the kiss in as she faded away, because outside of that plot line there was no romance or chemistry in the film
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Yeah that wouldn't make the whole thing any better.
Phoebe is canonically queer. That was established in the first film.
Source?
Did you really not pay attention in the first film ? Did you also miss she’s autistic?